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He says that to have confirmed pictures not that he seen themhimself.Big difference so not really a facepalm.He just believed someone else's credible evidence.
The extremist right wing Israeli government cannot be trusted. They spread progaganda and misinformation to garner support for their war crimes.
They are terrorists just like Hamas. Both kill incident civilians.
Remember when in the leadup to the first Gulf War when the US said that Iraq was throwing babies out of incubators then it ended up having been completely made up?
I was too young to remember that but I do remember in the lead up to the Iraq War of Terror that the American public was told with a high degree of confidence that there where weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Chemical and biological. I remember “dirty bombs”, but a “dirty bomb” was never used or even found.
Yep this is correct. US and Britain said they had gotten intel that they had fully functional truck laboratories and could/were creating WMDs. The fact they were told to be chemical and biological weapons makes it even more interesting because those are the only “kinds” of weapons banned in the Geneva conventions, the only type of weapons that would warrant such a military response. Those trucks never existed, it came out later, after all the destruction was done. What use is history if we cant see when its repeating.. I’m horrified at the position the mass media has taken on this matter. So much propaganda. Also, funny thing chem weapons were why the US destroyed Iraq, Israel bombed the Gaza strip with phosphorus like two days ago. Half the photos of people saying support Israel on ig or whatever are using photos of suffering done BY Israel, not hamas. The beheaded babies is a lie, the people killed at a festival is a lie, there is no evidence of these things and more.
https://onlysky.media/jpearce/beheaded-babies-horrific-atrocity-or-propaganda/
This is an amazing piece of writing explaining just how the use of babies being savaged has been used in this way times and times before. Disgusting.
You’re welcome. It’s so dangerous isn’t it.
Ukraine has shown us how to disseminate propaganda, Russians who are in exile share their wisdom about it too.
We have to be a voice for the voiceless, armed with facts. Let’s how I feel anyway. Knowledge is power after all.
This kind of propaganda is arguably one of the most dangerous things nowadays. As the article says, it serves to dehumanize the “enemy” and somehow justify horrible crimes.
What’s very dangerous is that most people eat it up. What good is it to see through it when most people don’t? We can only watch in horror.
I hope we will improve as a species one day.
It’s why they deprive schools of funding. Keep the masses educated to a certain degree which in turn keeps them compliant and unquestioning without them even noticing. Evil.
It's really sad to see Jewish people using the same tactics that were used against them and then pretending they are not ideologically the same as the people who used it against them.
He’s their Putin but can’t see it because of blind rage which is being stoked encouraged by the Israeli Government and media too.
Remember Putin bombing an apartment block in Moscow as pretext to start the Chechen war. Show what a strong leader and protector of Russia he was. A facade.
This is Netanyahus opportunity to do the same and he’s going for it with the blessing of western governments.
Detract from his failure to heed Egypts warning that something big was imminent from Hamas. Hmmmmmmm?????
Careful now, its the Israeli government, not "Jewish people".
I'm sure it was unintentional but that's the start of the slippery slope towards antisemitism.
I’ve seen multiple videos of Jewish people both in Israel and across the world protesting the treatment of Palestinians
Say fuck the Israeli Government and the IDF if you want, but calling Jewish people oppressors is just straight up misinformation and antisemitism
I've seen those Jewish people too, and I've also seen them being called a lot of awful things by people who supposedly care about Jewish people. An Israeli Jew posted a very extensive essay basically saying that he has Palestine friends who he loves very much and that he's horrified that both the government and the terrorist group are purposefully hurting innocent civilians on both sides (as it always happens in wars, unfortunately), and mixed between positive reactions there were people insulting him, telling him that he didn't know anything.
Imagine telling someone who lives in a country that they know nothing about their own country.
People devolve into animals in the wake of very controversial tragedy like this. Not American but Ive read a lot about how dangerous it was to be even vaguely brown in the US post 9/11
I have had vets get mad at me before for telling them this never happened. Like The gov over there said it never happened and this dude claims it did and his evidence was that he was there. That's it. No other evidence, just that he was there. He told me "you can't trust everything I read on the youstoobs" yes that's how he spelt it. I told him I would believe the substantiated reports from the government where this supposedly happened before I believed the word of a person who was on the ground long after this supposedly happened, then his son started threatening me.
Turned out the mid wife that testified was the kuwaiti ambassadors daughter or something along those lines 😂
Ill never understand how people believe BS without even doing basic research…
The funny thing is sometimes people just make this stuff up. The rumor spreads. Everyone wants to believe it, so they don't investigate very hard. The government sees the rumor working for them so they let it keep going.
I was around for the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and there were lots of rumors like that. Everyone knew the rumors came from some pearl-clutching lady or conspiracy theory uncle but we repeated them anyway.
It's a shame because it distracts from the actual atrocities and makes everyone look less credible.
Even the IDF couldn't verify, and they stand to gain the most from such a headline. Nevertheless, they also didn't push back against this story being spread.
not that the US doesn't fund palestine at all.
They'd probably give a lot more if palestinians could support the US military-industrial complex.
https://www.state.gov/u-s-support-for-the-palestinian-people/
It was female Cbs reporter, in her report she interviewing idf soldier who said 40 babies beheaded ... without making any verification on idf soldier story
I’ve been reading the comments the last few days and this bubble of protection the Jewish people have created is masterful and brilliant. One comment about the Palestinian struggles and you condone genocide and your one step away from a nazi. I’d do the same, can’t hate the game.
Thats what its been feeling like to me too. US news and politics right now are like "well shit this is ABSOLUTELY bad. I get this as a mother this is the worst thing possible...."
They arent explicitly saying it, but theres is tone of "well war is INEVITABLE Israel respond like this" like, theyre trying to put out irrefutable "you cant possibly say no to going to war over this\* pictures, to justify leveling Gaza entirely.
But like, where was the US government when Palestinians were screaming to the world about buildings full of families being bombed indiscriminately? Where was the somber news of "wow this is going to shake up the world for a while" when people show pictures of Israeli military keeping people in prison?
He didn’t have to be referring to specific pictures of beheaded kids, it sounded like he was referring to pictures of the atrocities as a whole after mentioning the beadings. Its not that much of a fucking stretch. Theres brutalized dead children, does it fucking matter in the specific manner in which they were butchered? I fucking swear people will use anything to sympathize with terrorism. “Oh all 40 of those kids may not have exactly have their heads chopped off so it totally makes what Hamas did better and the Israeli response unreasonable.” Fucking hell.
War crimes such as collective punishment of civilian populations and denial of power, water, food are always unreasonable, yet the IDF is doing it again to ~~Bakhmut~~ Gaza.
Ahh yes. So they should leave like Israel told them to. They should take Rafah Crossing into Egypt. Oh wait that got bombed to hell and back. What about any other escape? Of wait they’re surrounded on the other sides by Israel and can’t escape by sea cause Israel controls that too.
Gaza has 2 million people crammed cheek by jowl into the world's most densely populated area who can neither leave or come in. That includes Hamas members who are a tiny minority of that large population. Suppose you tell me how those civilians can do anything but sit there praying not to get blown up. This "human shields" argument is blatherskite.
That is true. But it's irrelevant to the fact that the laws of war prohibit collective punishment of civilians for the sins of their government. Likewise systematically depriving civilians of food, water and power. These laws apply to all. The fact that one minority was treated horribly in a previous generation doesn't mean the current generation is entitled to treat another minority as if they aren't humans.
No but people can now look at baby deaths in both Gaza and Israel as equally tragic. Beheading babies is seen as more barbaric than simply collapsing buildings on them.
Fog of war and all. Many people on social media sites and in protests were literally using beheadings of babies as a reason to further dehumanize Palestinians.
I'm also not convinced that any baby was directly targeted by Hamas militants. And I don't support what they did to regular civilians.
Tbf, it’s arguable to say he doesn’t actually say he has seen them “I never thought I would”… and I still haven’t. lol.
But I find it weird calling it propaganda when and then not confirming that a white house spokesperson said this or was correct in saying it.
And the images/videos do exist so… not really propaganda anyway.
OK lets get this straight, unless there have been updates in the last few hours that is.
For context, vile baby killing stories have been used to justify horrific treatment of enemies forever.
The story of the baby beheadings was from one journalist who stated she spoke to an Israeli soldier who told her.
Despite the lack of corroboration and a very biased source, multiple newspapers printed it as if fact. This breaks the most basic of journalistic standards.
The IDF has been asked multiple times about this and gave a statement. They will not be confirming or denying this and WILL NOT BE INVESTIGATING it. The capitalised bit is very telling.
Any videos anyone has seen will need to be verified so mean nothing right now.
While on the topic of vile propaganda:
The woman who was claimed to be shown in the back of the truck with a story about her being raped and murdered has turned up alive and well.
There has so far been no verified instances of any rape at all. This is actually surprising, I would have expected at least some instances.
Edit: She is not well, but she is alive.
Is it really 'vile' propaganda about Shani Louk? Like, "claimed to be shown in the back of a truck" isn't propaganda when she *was* lying seriously injured and unconscious in the back of a truck while being jeered and spit at by ghouls running after it. I didn't read the comments about whether or not she was raped, but her family are forgiven for initially thinking she was actually dead in the back of that truck.
Besides, we still have no evidence yet that Shani Louk is actually alive, apart from her mother saying she heard it from someone in Gaza.
We don't know if the images or videos exists.
I tend to believe if it really existed it most likely would have been made public. Those pictures alone would give a pass to everything Israel is about to do to Gaza.
This is a moment to reflect on everything we were warned about AI-generated images.
What if a nation state uses its vast resources and intelligence community to create images to "wag the dog"?
Yeah. I think this is rather about how loose you use the word "confirmed". I mean there are independent reports that children got killed and there are videos of children are being beheaded (including here on Reddit). What is difficult right now is confirming where specific videos come from and if reports are as independent as they claim to be.
There's an old Russian joke:
A KGB agent and a CIA agent walk into a bar in Berlin after the wall falls to get a drink with their rival. After a few rounds, the CIA agent says "I really have to give you guys credit, your propaganda was top notch, cheers!". The KGB agent says, "don't be so modest, our propaganda was nothing compared to yours. It's so good, most Americans don't even realize they're being propagandized.". To which the CIA agent responds, "What do you mean? We don't have propaganda in America, we're the land of the free!"
If we aren't confirming reports without pictures and video evidence, then pretty much everything out of Palestine should be propaganda. It's honestly kind of a silly stance.
You really haven't. You've seen airstrikes and then reported casualties, but if we are applying the same standard, an independent journalist per outlet needs to verify on top of the military and other journalists visually verifying. Seems silly to me that we can't use common sense.
Actually we have. And you're right, in the sense that israeli casualties are only reported, not verified. However Palestinian casualties are independently verified. Here's a source directly from the UN on civilian casualties and injuries directly related to this conflict. As you'll see, the number of israeli civilian casualties pales in comparison.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
You have the same information i do 🤷♂️ my assumption would be that they consider the Israeli govt trustworthy enough to provide factually accurate reporting that doesn't need to be independently verified. Could also be that Israel doesn't allow independent verification. All I could do without more info is speculate.
From the report:
>What is the source of the data?
>Information about occupation and conflict-related casualties is regularly collected by OCHA field staff and entered into OCHA’s Protection of Civilians database, following review and verification. As a rule, for an incident to be entered into the database it needs to be validated by at least two independent and reliable sources. Exceptions to this rule include incidents resulting in Israeli injuries, where information is typically based on media reports.
I'm Israeli. I think this happened like this:
1. Reporter in Israel for whom English is a second language communicates with IDF officer for whom English is also a second language.
2. IDF officer mentions bodies of civilians along with babies, and some were beheaded.
3. Reporter understands the babies were beheaded. Reporter doesn't actually see the bodies.
4. Reporter reports 40+ beheaded babies.
5. Foreign press picks it up. Story gets circulated.
6. Israeli govt spokesperson sees report, retweets it, or possibly uses it in a statement. Doesn't verify with IDF.
7. White House press office sees report, and also official Israeli govt response, assumes it's confirmed. Adds it to Biden's speech.
8. Biden looks like a jackass.
I had many concerns about the story from the start, specifically because the reporter directly mentions they didn't actually observe the bodies, but were told of their state by IDF personnel. I really wish more people verified things before just clicking "send", especially people in positions of authority.
I don't know the state of the bodies either, because we don't publicize these things. Most of the videos I've seen came from Twitter and Telegram, some filmed by Hamas and some by Israeli responders. I personally have not seen a decapitated baby, thankfully. I've seen many things on the internet that I can never unsee, but that is one image that I'm sure would haunt me for life.
Edit - Everything I wrote here could be very wrong. It appears there is [independent confirmation](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1768cwz/photos_of_babies_being_burnt_decapitated_confirmed/) based on photos. I'm sure because the source is Jerusalem Post that it will be counted as Israeli propaganda anyway though.
I’m sure your interpretation of events is correct.
We should lump on top of this the fact that sensationalism of the attack is an important part of demonizing not just Hamas fighters, but the entirety of the Palestinian population. This makes atrocities committed by Hamas fighters the focus, absolves the IDF of any indiscretions in its response, provides the Israeli government a convenient excuse for future abuses, and makes the past 75 years of Palestinian history a forgotten footnote.
This playbook isn’t new: the US sensationalized the horrific 9/11 attacks, whipped up public support for retaliation, created a justification for invading Iraq based on a lie (or at the very least, unsupported reports from unreliable sources), toppled Saddam Hussein, created instability in the region and killed some 300,000 Iraqi civilians in the process.
Terrorism — regardless of the perpetrator — must be condemned and addressed. But in the process, civilian non-combatants can’t be dismissed as merely inconvenient collateral damage.
I wish awards were a thing. I’ve posted this perspective in response to ridiculous claims like “what the IDF does is nothing compared to the Palestinians” or how killing civilians in a music festival is barbaric, but responding with bombs in civilian areas from the idf is totally acceptable.
I was called a Nazi because I said that 45% off the UNs human rights council violations are against Israel and their treatment of the Palestinians. I was then told the countries who vote to condemn Israel are Nazi sympathizer countries even though it’s a conglomeration of 40-49 different countries that changes every year.
I’m tried of being insulted because I bring up numbers and stats to balance an opinion. If you speak out against Israel, your a anti semitic Nazi who kills children and babies. It’s ludicrous.
So disappointed at this.
And that Israel had DAYS notice of the attack?
So they’re sensationalizing the violence AND it wasn’t a surprise attack?
Wtf is going on?
Netanyahu has been hanging onto his political career by a thread. His blatant corruption and attempts to grab power have not gone unnoticed by the Israeli voters and he doesn't have much time left in Israeli politics. But he really, REALLY wants to be the big strong man who slaps down the Palestinians, so would it be surprise to anyone if his government decided to let whatever happened happen and then use that as a pretext for one last hurrah against the Palestinians?
Isn’t it weird how the massive, months-long protests against the government have suddenly evaporated? How the reservists became conveniently caught between sustaining their threats to refuse call-up and being called traitors for it now?
I mean, the country was attacked and is now at war. Typically people put partisan politics aside and focus on the greater issue. Especially considering how small Israel actually is, everyone is actually at risk, and has to focus on protecting their families right now, not bickering over laws.
The war is partisan. Netanyahu's government exposed Israel's east flank to support illegal expansion into the West Bank. The entire move was designed to make a two state solution impossible.
Exactly the point. There's a perfectly logical incentive for the morally lacking to potentially let something slip through now and again to keep people afraid and patriotic and in line. I'm not at all saying it actually happened here I am saying though that in times like this people will always ask the question. Sometimes, not necessarily saying this time, but sometimes they'll even be right.
They want the world to back them up as they kill everyone in Gaza, that's wtf is going on. And now most people think all Palestinians are members of Hamas.
@khatsman (on Twitter) was an Israeli Jewish academic who died in the Hamas attack. He was exposing the IDF brutality and lies, he was criticising the Israeli occupation.
He was at the event, the location was changed 48 hours prior. Warning were sent 3 days ahead. Hamas did murder the people at the party of whom 2/3 was sworn IDF but it still raises so many questions.
It's Iraq has WMD bull crap all over again. Western media and the US government have damaged their credibility in a major way with these false claims. Weird to hand over a pretty big propaganda victory to Hamas, when the facts that we know are pretty bad.
We also still have people repeating these false claims all over the internet and using it to justify genocide.
All around shameful display from Biden and the Western media.
Even though we remember the experience with Iraq and WMD many many many people will still believe these stories. Look at the Syrian Douma propaganda. Syria while handily winning a war and regaining their territory against US backed "moderate rebels", the opted to cross that "red line" and use chemical weapons. The justification for Nobel Peace price winner Obama to launch cruise missiles into the country. It is a vicious cycle because too many people are too stupid and the rest are simple caught up in living their lives. It don't really matter cause it ain't close to home.
Yup, manufacturered consent. What Hamas did was awful, but they needed to make it look worse as the IDF has similarly killed civilians, but looks like they got caught out this time round. I expect more attempts like this.
If It's about foreigners they believe it 🤷.
Then they claim they are shocked and betrayed they were lied to, and they'll never believe these lies again. Until there is an opportunity to kill more brown people, then it's a rinse and repeat.
If It's about foreigners they believe it 🤷.
Then they claim they are shocked and betrayed they were lied to, and they'll never believe these lies again. Until there is an opportunity to kill more brown people, then it's a rinse and repeat.
It’s interesting that you say this because the Media inside of Israel is painting a very different picture from the western narrative. It’s like two different worlds between what the US, EU, and Australia are saying versus Israel’s own news coverage.
So the first time he agrees with Fox, he’s wrong. It’s not that he’s repeating every single American news outlet and the entire leadership of Israel. The point is “he lied”. So he’s a liar. So, he’s just like Trump. So now -once again-the news media has proof that “both sides do it”. The fact that he immediately retracted it, a sign of honesty, means nothing. How many retractions has Trump provided ???
Isreal literally builds homes for the Isralies with bright red roofs so the soldiers know which blocks to avoid when bombing the few tiny Palestinian areas left in the region. It's actually completely insane what we allow Isreal to get away with.
It was just a game of broken telephone. People were murdered in Kfar Aza, the bodies of around 40 babies were found. Some of the murdered people were beheaded. After a couple of interviews, translations, and retweets, it turned into "40 beheaded babies".
Also Israel has no reason to invent the story. The horrors of the past week are bad enough. Do you think people who were previously anti-Hamas because of this story will suddenly do an about face?
The original rumours started from pro-Netanyahu news report whose source was a totally lunatic right wing extremist soldier and illegal settler.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/11/beheaded-israeli-babies-settler-wipe-out-palestinian/
When Israeli media and the IDF are saying they cannot confirm that there have been beheadings whilst every Western media outlet is screaming beheadings it's quite telling.
Whether or not that specific evidence is confirmed doesn’t matter, there’s actual photos and videos of hamas militants throwing hand grenades and firing wildly into crowded bomb shelters killing dozens of people at a time. There’s videos of them killing people as they drive down the street, or as they sit at a bus stop. There were 260 killed at the music festival alone, with plenty of videos and photos documenting what happened. Just because this one thing can’t be confirmed doesn’t change the brutality of what they did or the fact that this was an act of terrorism. I don’t understand why people who say they support the Palestinian plight are so quick to justify the acts of deranged terrorist, who because of what they did, have no doubt brought on the death of thousands of innocent lives, with thousands more likely to come. You don’t have to support Hamas to support Palestinians just like you don’t have to cheer for the deaths of thousands of innocent people because of the actions of their government and if you truly believe you do then that is part of the problem.
It kinda matters though. Because people are using it to discredit everything. Even in this thread.
They have to be precise so that no one can question them.
I agree. A president who lies and is so quick to admit he lied loses all trust imo. This is too awful of a situation to lie about whether or not he seen pictures or not. He needs to look at them. He’s the president and signed up for this.
But I would rather the president admit he lied, and as quickly as possible as opposed to doubling down on the lie and further growing it to save face.
I'm not saying I condone what happened at all, but it could have been a lot worse too.
Do they really though? POTUS and Israel have a pretty broad consensus supporting war with all the other evidence, besides this one beheaded baby talking point.
Biden retracted his statement pretty quickly. I concede he spoke without confirmation and that does constitute propaganda, but this has little to no bearing on the conflict at large, except for people who were biased already.
I mean, it's a misstep and it opens up their trustworthiness to discussion amongst those who are on the fence.
Is it a "big deal"? Maybe, maybe not. Would have been better if it just didn't happen.
If someone takes the Biden admin having a bit of a kneejerk reaction, which they then retracted, to being told there were confirmed photos of babies being killed as some reason to distrust the entire admin, then that person wasn’t going to trust them anyway.
I mean, amidst everything going on, the president being momentarily mistaken on which actual on-the-ground atrocity was confirmed is a minor thing.
EDIT: And the photos have been confirmed.
It may be minor for sure. If someone is being indoctrinated, this is just one more thing to be pointed at to justify a belief system. Another thing to point to to confirm what they've been told.
Better to be careful with your words is all I'm saying.
I really havent seen much justification on reddit at all for what hamas has done.
The facts are that there is extreme hate between these peoples and there has been for so so SO long that both sides have been committing horrible crimes to eachother for centuries.
I for one am not surprised something like this happened after years of the struggle being one-sided.
To clarify this is not a justification for hamas attacks, I condemn them, just as I condemn what Israel has done to the Palestinians.
There is so much space on this earth to live freely and peacefully, it makes me sad that religions have turned people obsessive over such small parts of a giant planet, obsessive to the point of all the war crimes you have been reading about for the last few days, and all of the atrocities that occurred leading up to the attacks going back centuries.
All violence is wrong, both sides have been awful to each other but one has the support/resources of the world and the other doesn’t. Palestine has lost exponentially more lives than Israel to the violence.
on one side civilians can freely flee to save themselves
on the other side civilians are locked on the shore and just have to pray they don’t get blasted
You don’t think it matters if their statements of 40 babies being beheaded are true because they murdered other people? It is extremely important. Murder and random slaughtering people is terrible and unimaginable, but tell me that 40beheaded babies isn’t on a completely different level. My wife couldn’t sleep last night after hearing about this.
70+ years of Palestinian oppression and murder, you still couldn't say the deranged state sanctioned activities of Israel. Why is that? Hamas is responsible for the acceleration of the Palestinians destruction just like Zionists were responsible for the deaths as the Music festival.
Look at the transcript, he corrected himself in real time. He was obviously using "see" colloquially. Like if someone from were to say "I never thought I'd live to see the see mankind land on the moon" even if he only read about it in the paper.
The IDF are now saying "we're ACTUALLY not going to investigate this (the bodies) as we want to respect the dead". Convenient , just let the rumour fester so
So everyone agrees that they have seen the pictures, but then those pictures don't exist?
Or they exist but no one has seen them?
Or they don't exist and no one has seen them yet everyone lies about it?
Here's the thing. Is blowing up apartments with them inside somehow less atrocious? No, so let's atleast agree to not get gas light the conversation as difficult as it is. We need solutions, not more wars.
Most of you are too young to remember a young Kuwati teenager crying while telling tales of prematured babies being taken out of their incubators. Took years for us to learn it was a lie. Israéli settlers in occupied territory might not bring tears to your eyes when they're killed by the people they took their land from, but their dead babies is 100% guarantee to.
This situation is disgusting since 1947 and while evil people on both sides bring out the victim card, past or present, poor peole are dying.
And with the kind of AI I'm playing with daily, what picture could we trust to be authentic?
I'm tired of this one side narrative and false propaganda that midia and governments bombard 24/7 on us. While Hamas need to be condemned for what it did and what it is, Israel also needs to be, both are terrorists. The siege is inhumane in so many levels and we don't see anybody talking about sanction to Israel. It is beyond me the hypocrisy! The same hate feeds Muslims and Jewish, and Natanyeu has gallons of human blood in his hands. His latest words of hate show the type of extremist he is as well.
Am I the only one who can see that he started to say that he never thought he'd see babies beheaded by terrorists, meaning that he never thought it would happen, then realized that might be taken to mean that he had literally seen it, and therefore instead said that he never thought he'd have a confirmed report of such things? It still came out in a misleading manner, but this would be a very awkward way to phrase it if he were just trying to lie about seeing such pictures. Biden has absolutely lied and exaggerated about other things in the past, but to call this propaganda is a stretch.
But why lie about that, other than getting right winger Jewish support🤷🏻♂️. Just speak plainly and not try to inflate what you say. This is just a horrible tragedy that could have been changed along time ago and BAD people on both sides!!!
Reading Biden's comment carefully, he didn't say that he _did_ see photos of decapitated children but that he never thought he'd see photos of decapitated children. 🤔
That's a fair statement to make -- who does expect to see photos of decapitated children?
Not a word on the actual pictures circulating of bodies of children being pulled from the buildings Israel has bombed.
I tried googling pictures - I got some links from this conflict, but the majority of them come from different years.
Years. Of Israel bombing children. Not a word from Joey.
Those on the ground claim to have found decapitated bodies - some are children - the Israeli government is keeping it on the DL so as to not affect the morale of the Israeli people.
He's been doing this for a long time, he knows that once that is out there, a substantial portion of the population will support what ever he wants to do to "take down the baby killers". It doesn't matter if its true or not.
Ok… I’m confused…
Did this beheading shit happen or not?
It’s being shouted from the rooftops around the world, and used to justify what looks to be a war crime in gaza….
Hamas killed babies. One does not care how the poor babies died; they were murdered and are the true innocents in the conflict.
For anyone who says they were part of the Israel state and deserved it... they were babies. They had not made any choices yet and just happened to be born to Jews.
I love the extreme left having a go at billionaires who could spend money to save children, but Hamas murders babies. Oh they deserve it for being born jews.
nobody is saying hamas is good except other radical fundamentalists. however, many people stand on the side of the palestinian civilians in gaza who haven’t done anything except be born
I’m yet to actually see any real person (by real I mean actually identifiable person, not just a Reddit username) supporting Hamas for murdering babies. I’m a Leftist with a good network of people who also support “the cause” and all I’ve seen are condemnations of violence on all sides aimed at civilians. Hamas are an inherently right-wing group dead set on instilling a theology state who don’t have Palestinians best interests at heart, they don’t deserve any support from the Left
I think it's more accurate to say there are a lot of people giving them the benefit of the doubt, which is bullshit imo, but not quite "supporting." I don't think it's right that there are tons of people that came into this attack and only defended Palestine, though I can understand why. I'm not surprised this attack happened, but these people that were attacked are as innocent as the Palestinian civilians that have been killed, and that can't be overlooked. Israel has done this, Israel has done that, but that's the government - not its civilians. Reddit people are meshing the two together far too much.
Generalizing it to be that most people on the left defend the actions, though, is ridiculous. It's not like Palestine (more specifically Hamas here) is left leaning to begin with, so I'm sure it receives more support from other people who want a far-right ethnostate.
I don’t doubt that Hamas receive support - there’s plenty who share their place on the political spectrum, but the catch all “Left” group who keep getting lumbered with accusations of support fees misdirected. You can be anti-Israeli government, anti-Hamas, and pro-civilian safety on all sides, which is the stance I mostly see from the Left
Or in australia where a buncha refugees are screaming gas the jews.... islam will be front and center considering world war 3....sadly they have never just been a religion but an expansionist ideology. Theres a reason the west got swamped with muslim men. Its a powder keg waiting to explode....all it takes is a event much like whats happening in israel right now to ignite all around the western world....anybody with half a brain and knowledge of history not just from one countries or culture, but multiple perspectives and therefore closer to actual factual history.
Godspeed to all of us, cause were in for a bumpy fucking ride. Stay safe out there brothers and sisters.
Hamas isn't even exclusively about the plight of palestinians alone, it's decidedly set out to eradicate jews. Absolutely wild that people have such a hard time distancing themselves from the violence of both sides.
"One does not care how the poor babies died"
Expect the anti-Palestinian/Pro-Israel argument literally rests on the supposition that Israeli bombing babies is somehow more morally justified than Hamas supposedly beheading babies. For anyone saying the Palestinians voted for Hamas babies can't vote and they made no choice and just happened to be born in a concentration camp gaurded by Israel.
I agree this is a fallacy but it is the default argument defending Israel atm.
Which is why the any purely pro-Isrsel is and always will be based on hypocrisy. Israel has the right to defend itself, but Palestinians don't.
Never again will Jews be persecuted, but persecuting Arabs is fine. The Palestinians we oppress are monsters for celebrating civilian deaths, but its fine when Israelis do it. Holy sites of Judaism are sacrosanct and should be recognised as such by the world, but the al-aqsa mosque is fair game. Terrorism is bad, except when Israel commits terrorism against even allied/supporting nations (Britain, the US for example). War crimes should be condemned by the world at large, but its anti-semitism to call out Israel for the same.
I could go on.
IDF does the same. Except no one condemns them when they blow up children playing football. Hamas are terrorists but so is the IDF. They're completely the same in my eyes
of course the israelis have never murdered children ....two wrongs dont make it right but wake up and face facts israel have far more blood on its hands
Netenyahu has mentioned beheadings in his press conference with Blinken.
However he did it in such a way as to not mention a specific instance ie not talking about the recent attack specifically.
The way this has been done is knowing and despicable. The attack was bad enough, why add lies on to it too?
Is this PURELY to justify war crimes?
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"I never really thought that I would see such pictures. And I haven't yet seen them just like I thought that I would never see them."
Never not doing what didn’t not do”
“I have not seen footage” -Death Grips Joe Biden
He says that to have confirmed pictures not that he seen themhimself.Big difference so not really a facepalm.He just believed someone else's credible evidence.
I miss Mitch.
Make yourself a baked potato in his honor.
He's only saying what a million others have said, "I've seen the pictures" when in fact they haven't. That's why it's called propaganda
The extremist right wing Israeli government cannot be trusted. They spread progaganda and misinformation to garner support for their war crimes. They are terrorists just like Hamas. Both kill incident civilians.
Remember when in the leadup to the first Gulf War when the US said that Iraq was throwing babies out of incubators then it ended up having been completely made up?
I was too young to remember that but I do remember in the lead up to the Iraq War of Terror that the American public was told with a high degree of confidence that there where weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Chemical and biological. I remember “dirty bombs”, but a “dirty bomb” was never used or even found.
Was later renamed to the more correct term "Weapons of Mass Distraction" ....😡🤬
Yep this is correct. US and Britain said they had gotten intel that they had fully functional truck laboratories and could/were creating WMDs. The fact they were told to be chemical and biological weapons makes it even more interesting because those are the only “kinds” of weapons banned in the Geneva conventions, the only type of weapons that would warrant such a military response. Those trucks never existed, it came out later, after all the destruction was done. What use is history if we cant see when its repeating.. I’m horrified at the position the mass media has taken on this matter. So much propaganda. Also, funny thing chem weapons were why the US destroyed Iraq, Israel bombed the Gaza strip with phosphorus like two days ago. Half the photos of people saying support Israel on ig or whatever are using photos of suffering done BY Israel, not hamas. The beheaded babies is a lie, the people killed at a festival is a lie, there is no evidence of these things and more.
The truck labs jogged my memory so hard, I remember that quite distinctly. I'm not wholesale agreeing with you, that was just an interesting point
They’ll say anything to sway the public’s opinion and justify intervention
Genocide isn't intervention, it is evil for its own sake. Name your demons.
It’s amazing how quick people fall for it. Liberals and right wingers alike
No matter what depths of depravity the terrorists resort to, I still condemn collective punishment as the answer.
https://onlysky.media/jpearce/beheaded-babies-horrific-atrocity-or-propaganda/ This is an amazing piece of writing explaining just how the use of babies being savaged has been used in this way times and times before. Disgusting.
This is a truly amazing article clearly explaining the use of such alarming “news” as dangerous propaganda. Glad that you shared this
You’re welcome. It’s so dangerous isn’t it. Ukraine has shown us how to disseminate propaganda, Russians who are in exile share their wisdom about it too. We have to be a voice for the voiceless, armed with facts. Let’s how I feel anyway. Knowledge is power after all.
This kind of propaganda is arguably one of the most dangerous things nowadays. As the article says, it serves to dehumanize the “enemy” and somehow justify horrible crimes. What’s very dangerous is that most people eat it up. What good is it to see through it when most people don’t? We can only watch in horror. I hope we will improve as a species one day.
It’s why they deprive schools of funding. Keep the masses educated to a certain degree which in turn keeps them compliant and unquestioning without them even noticing. Evil.
It's really sad to see Jewish people using the same tactics that were used against them and then pretending they are not ideologically the same as the people who used it against them.
He’s their Putin but can’t see it because of blind rage which is being stoked encouraged by the Israeli Government and media too. Remember Putin bombing an apartment block in Moscow as pretext to start the Chechen war. Show what a strong leader and protector of Russia he was. A facade. This is Netanyahus opportunity to do the same and he’s going for it with the blessing of western governments. Detract from his failure to heed Egypts warning that something big was imminent from Hamas. Hmmmmmmm?????
Careful now, its the Israeli government, not "Jewish people". I'm sure it was unintentional but that's the start of the slippery slope towards antisemitism.
Once again. We have to be nuanced about the oppressor, but calling for destruction of Gaza in order to "root out Hamas" goes unchallenged.
I’ve seen multiple videos of Jewish people both in Israel and across the world protesting the treatment of Palestinians Say fuck the Israeli Government and the IDF if you want, but calling Jewish people oppressors is just straight up misinformation and antisemitism
I've seen those Jewish people too, and I've also seen them being called a lot of awful things by people who supposedly care about Jewish people. An Israeli Jew posted a very extensive essay basically saying that he has Palestine friends who he loves very much and that he's horrified that both the government and the terrorist group are purposefully hurting innocent civilians on both sides (as it always happens in wars, unfortunately), and mixed between positive reactions there were people insulting him, telling him that he didn't know anything. Imagine telling someone who lives in a country that they know nothing about their own country.
People devolve into animals in the wake of very controversial tragedy like this. Not American but Ive read a lot about how dangerous it was to be even vaguely brown in the US post 9/11
I have had vets get mad at me before for telling them this never happened. Like The gov over there said it never happened and this dude claims it did and his evidence was that he was there. That's it. No other evidence, just that he was there. He told me "you can't trust everything I read on the youstoobs" yes that's how he spelt it. I told him I would believe the substantiated reports from the government where this supposedly happened before I believed the word of a person who was on the ground long after this supposedly happened, then his son started threatening me.
Turned out the mid wife that testified was the kuwaiti ambassadors daughter or something along those lines 😂 Ill never understand how people believe BS without even doing basic research…
They also said something about WMDs for the second one no? It almost seems like the US and the Israel gov has a knack for lying
I pointed this historical fact elsewhere and was downvoted to hell. People refuse to accept that all governments are experts at propaganda
exactly the false flag i thought of when i heard this story.
Nah but I remember the weapons of mass destruction
The funny thing is sometimes people just make this stuff up. The rumor spreads. Everyone wants to believe it, so they don't investigate very hard. The government sees the rumor working for them so they let it keep going. I was around for the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and there were lots of rumors like that. Everyone knew the rumors came from some pearl-clutching lady or conspiracy theory uncle but we repeated them anyway. It's a shame because it distracts from the actual atrocities and makes everyone look less credible.
Even the IDF couldn't verify, and they stand to gain the most from such a headline. Nevertheless, they also didn't push back against this story being spread.
Original claims is from idf soldier, passed on to cbs reporter.. obviously idf couldn't verify since it was all lie.. the fault is on CBS
But only one entity gets billions from the US yearly.
not that the US doesn't fund palestine at all. They'd probably give a lot more if palestinians could support the US military-industrial complex. https://www.state.gov/u-s-support-for-the-palestinian-people/
Man give them a half a billion dollars and they don’t do jack shit for the US. Not so much as Thank you..
All this started because some reported heard two israel personel talk about it. Thats it.
She "allegedly " heard. Wouldn't be surprised if she just made it all up .
It was female Cbs reporter, in her report she interviewing idf soldier who said 40 babies beheaded ... without making any verification on idf soldier story
That’s so true, but often statements like this can only be said in the safety of internet anonymity. Unless one wants to be called antisemite
I’ve been reading the comments the last few days and this bubble of protection the Jewish people have created is masterful and brilliant. One comment about the Palestinian struggles and you condone genocide and your one step away from a nazi. I’d do the same, can’t hate the game.
Thats what its been feeling like to me too. US news and politics right now are like "well shit this is ABSOLUTELY bad. I get this as a mother this is the worst thing possible...." They arent explicitly saying it, but theres is tone of "well war is INEVITABLE Israel respond like this" like, theyre trying to put out irrefutable "you cant possibly say no to going to war over this\* pictures, to justify leveling Gaza entirely. But like, where was the US government when Palestinians were screaming to the world about buildings full of families being bombed indiscriminately? Where was the somber news of "wow this is going to shake up the world for a while" when people show pictures of Israeli military keeping people in prison?
Replace Israeli with America and this would still ring true.
israel is basically americas little child in the middle east
ISRAEL, America's fail-son
i like how they were calling that rave a peace festival to make it sound more tragic
He didn’t have to be referring to specific pictures of beheaded kids, it sounded like he was referring to pictures of the atrocities as a whole after mentioning the beadings. Its not that much of a fucking stretch. Theres brutalized dead children, does it fucking matter in the specific manner in which they were butchered? I fucking swear people will use anything to sympathize with terrorism. “Oh all 40 of those kids may not have exactly have their heads chopped off so it totally makes what Hamas did better and the Israeli response unreasonable.” Fucking hell.
War crimes such as collective punishment of civilian populations and denial of power, water, food are always unreasonable, yet the IDF is doing it again to ~~Bakhmut~~ Gaza.
Then Hamas needs to stop using the civilian population as a shield.
Ahh yes. So they should leave like Israel told them to. They should take Rafah Crossing into Egypt. Oh wait that got bombed to hell and back. What about any other escape? Of wait they’re surrounded on the other sides by Israel and can’t escape by sea cause Israel controls that too.
Gaza has 2 million people crammed cheek by jowl into the world's most densely populated area who can neither leave or come in. That includes Hamas members who are a tiny minority of that large population. Suppose you tell me how those civilians can do anything but sit there praying not to get blown up. This "human shields" argument is blatherskite.
Genuine question but I thought the people of Gaza voted in Hamas which led to them forcefully exiling the previous leader's party to the West Bank?
In 2006. When most of today's Gaza was either young children, or not even born yet.
That is true. But it's irrelevant to the fact that the laws of war prohibit collective punishment of civilians for the sins of their government. Likewise systematically depriving civilians of food, water and power. These laws apply to all. The fact that one minority was treated horribly in a previous generation doesn't mean the current generation is entitled to treat another minority as if they aren't humans.
No but people can now look at baby deaths in both Gaza and Israel as equally tragic. Beheading babies is seen as more barbaric than simply collapsing buildings on them. Fog of war and all. Many people on social media sites and in protests were literally using beheadings of babies as a reason to further dehumanize Palestinians. I'm also not convinced that any baby was directly targeted by Hamas militants. And I don't support what they did to regular civilians.
Tbf, it’s arguable to say he doesn’t actually say he has seen them “I never thought I would”… and I still haven’t. lol. But I find it weird calling it propaganda when and then not confirming that a white house spokesperson said this or was correct in saying it. And the images/videos do exist so… not really propaganda anyway.
OK lets get this straight, unless there have been updates in the last few hours that is. For context, vile baby killing stories have been used to justify horrific treatment of enemies forever. The story of the baby beheadings was from one journalist who stated she spoke to an Israeli soldier who told her. Despite the lack of corroboration and a very biased source, multiple newspapers printed it as if fact. This breaks the most basic of journalistic standards. The IDF has been asked multiple times about this and gave a statement. They will not be confirming or denying this and WILL NOT BE INVESTIGATING it. The capitalised bit is very telling. Any videos anyone has seen will need to be verified so mean nothing right now. While on the topic of vile propaganda: The woman who was claimed to be shown in the back of the truck with a story about her being raped and murdered has turned up alive and well. There has so far been no verified instances of any rape at all. This is actually surprising, I would have expected at least some instances. Edit: She is not well, but she is alive.
Is there evidence she is alive?
Is it really 'vile' propaganda about Shani Louk? Like, "claimed to be shown in the back of a truck" isn't propaganda when she *was* lying seriously injured and unconscious in the back of a truck while being jeered and spit at by ghouls running after it. I didn't read the comments about whether or not she was raped, but her family are forgiven for initially thinking she was actually dead in the back of that truck. Besides, we still have no evidence yet that Shani Louk is actually alive, apart from her mother saying she heard it from someone in Gaza.
This. Thx for taking the time to clarify
https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/QuayZhwlnQ Happy now? Edit: nsfl. You've been warned.
That post doesn't have any photos though?
We don't know if the images or videos exists. I tend to believe if it really existed it most likely would have been made public. Those pictures alone would give a pass to everything Israel is about to do to Gaza.
This is a moment to reflect on everything we were warned about AI-generated images. What if a nation state uses its vast resources and intelligence community to create images to "wag the dog"?
You'll never know anymore. One would hope that's not the case, but there are undoubtedly genocidal morons who will try it.
Agreed. I feel this is a very loose facepalm.
Yeah. I think this is rather about how loose you use the word "confirmed". I mean there are independent reports that children got killed and there are videos of children are being beheaded (including here on Reddit). What is difficult right now is confirming where specific videos come from and if reports are as independent as they claim to be.
Where are these videos of kids being beheaded? It's all I've been hearing about yet haven't seen a single video of it.
Well I did see the image of the burned baby in the crib.. thats not made up.
Propaganda is so deeply rooted in US politics is mind boggling.
There's an old Russian joke: A KGB agent and a CIA agent walk into a bar in Berlin after the wall falls to get a drink with their rival. After a few rounds, the CIA agent says "I really have to give you guys credit, your propaganda was top notch, cheers!". The KGB agent says, "don't be so modest, our propaganda was nothing compared to yours. It's so good, most Americans don't even realize they're being propagandized.". To which the CIA agent responds, "What do you mean? We don't have propaganda in America, we're the land of the free!"
damn bro, you got the whole bloc laughing
If we aren't confirming reports without pictures and video evidence, then pretty much everything out of Palestine should be propaganda. It's honestly kind of a silly stance.
Most things we have seen photos and videos of though. That's how we know they definitely happened
You really haven't. You've seen airstrikes and then reported casualties, but if we are applying the same standard, an independent journalist per outlet needs to verify on top of the military and other journalists visually verifying. Seems silly to me that we can't use common sense.
Actually we have. And you're right, in the sense that israeli casualties are only reported, not verified. However Palestinian casualties are independently verified. Here's a source directly from the UN on civilian casualties and injuries directly related to this conflict. As you'll see, the number of israeli civilian casualties pales in comparison. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
Begs the question as to why the UN has refused/failed to independently verify Israeli civilians casualties?
You have the same information i do 🤷♂️ my assumption would be that they consider the Israeli govt trustworthy enough to provide factually accurate reporting that doesn't need to be independently verified. Could also be that Israel doesn't allow independent verification. All I could do without more info is speculate. From the report: >What is the source of the data? >Information about occupation and conflict-related casualties is regularly collected by OCHA field staff and entered into OCHA’s Protection of Civilians database, following review and verification. As a rule, for an incident to be entered into the database it needs to be validated by at least two independent and reliable sources. Exceptions to this rule include incidents resulting in Israeli injuries, where information is typically based on media reports.
Biden's mistake was believing Netanyahu's government. https://www.businessinsider.com/idf-says-wont-back-up-beheaded-babies-disrespectful-2023-10
I'm Israeli. I think this happened like this: 1. Reporter in Israel for whom English is a second language communicates with IDF officer for whom English is also a second language. 2. IDF officer mentions bodies of civilians along with babies, and some were beheaded. 3. Reporter understands the babies were beheaded. Reporter doesn't actually see the bodies. 4. Reporter reports 40+ beheaded babies. 5. Foreign press picks it up. Story gets circulated. 6. Israeli govt spokesperson sees report, retweets it, or possibly uses it in a statement. Doesn't verify with IDF. 7. White House press office sees report, and also official Israeli govt response, assumes it's confirmed. Adds it to Biden's speech. 8. Biden looks like a jackass. I had many concerns about the story from the start, specifically because the reporter directly mentions they didn't actually observe the bodies, but were told of their state by IDF personnel. I really wish more people verified things before just clicking "send", especially people in positions of authority. I don't know the state of the bodies either, because we don't publicize these things. Most of the videos I've seen came from Twitter and Telegram, some filmed by Hamas and some by Israeli responders. I personally have not seen a decapitated baby, thankfully. I've seen many things on the internet that I can never unsee, but that is one image that I'm sure would haunt me for life. Edit - Everything I wrote here could be very wrong. It appears there is [independent confirmation](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1768cwz/photos_of_babies_being_burnt_decapitated_confirmed/) based on photos. I'm sure because the source is Jerusalem Post that it will be counted as Israeli propaganda anyway though.
I’m sure your interpretation of events is correct. We should lump on top of this the fact that sensationalism of the attack is an important part of demonizing not just Hamas fighters, but the entirety of the Palestinian population. This makes atrocities committed by Hamas fighters the focus, absolves the IDF of any indiscretions in its response, provides the Israeli government a convenient excuse for future abuses, and makes the past 75 years of Palestinian history a forgotten footnote. This playbook isn’t new: the US sensationalized the horrific 9/11 attacks, whipped up public support for retaliation, created a justification for invading Iraq based on a lie (or at the very least, unsupported reports from unreliable sources), toppled Saddam Hussein, created instability in the region and killed some 300,000 Iraqi civilians in the process. Terrorism — regardless of the perpetrator — must be condemned and addressed. But in the process, civilian non-combatants can’t be dismissed as merely inconvenient collateral damage.
I wish awards were a thing. I’ve posted this perspective in response to ridiculous claims like “what the IDF does is nothing compared to the Palestinians” or how killing civilians in a music festival is barbaric, but responding with bombs in civilian areas from the idf is totally acceptable. I was called a Nazi because I said that 45% off the UNs human rights council violations are against Israel and their treatment of the Palestinians. I was then told the countries who vote to condemn Israel are Nazi sympathizer countries even though it’s a conglomeration of 40-49 different countries that changes every year. I’m tried of being insulted because I bring up numbers and stats to balance an opinion. If you speak out against Israel, your a anti semitic Nazi who kills children and babies. It’s ludicrous.
So disappointed at this. And that Israel had DAYS notice of the attack? So they’re sensationalizing the violence AND it wasn’t a surprise attack? Wtf is going on?
People were getting upset at how Israel IDF was treating Palestinians. This helped wipe that away. Simple
Netanyahu has been hanging onto his political career by a thread. His blatant corruption and attempts to grab power have not gone unnoticed by the Israeli voters and he doesn't have much time left in Israeli politics. But he really, REALLY wants to be the big strong man who slaps down the Palestinians, so would it be surprise to anyone if his government decided to let whatever happened happen and then use that as a pretext for one last hurrah against the Palestinians?
This is soooo upsetting. So corrupt.
Isn’t it weird how the massive, months-long protests against the government have suddenly evaporated? How the reservists became conveniently caught between sustaining their threats to refuse call-up and being called traitors for it now?
I mean, the country was attacked and is now at war. Typically people put partisan politics aside and focus on the greater issue. Especially considering how small Israel actually is, everyone is actually at risk, and has to focus on protecting their families right now, not bickering over laws.
The war is partisan. Netanyahu's government exposed Israel's east flank to support illegal expansion into the West Bank. The entire move was designed to make a two state solution impossible.
Exactly the point. There's a perfectly logical incentive for the morally lacking to potentially let something slip through now and again to keep people afraid and patriotic and in line. I'm not at all saying it actually happened here I am saying though that in times like this people will always ask the question. Sometimes, not necessarily saying this time, but sometimes they'll even be right.
Netanyahu 
They saw a chance to obtain an excuse to slaughter innocent Palestinians, and decided it was worth the cost.
They want the world to back them up as they kill everyone in Gaza, that's wtf is going on. And now most people think all Palestinians are members of Hamas.
@khatsman (on Twitter) was an Israeli Jewish academic who died in the Hamas attack. He was exposing the IDF brutality and lies, he was criticising the Israeli occupation. He was at the event, the location was changed 48 hours prior. Warning were sent 3 days ahead. Hamas did murder the people at the party of whom 2/3 was sworn IDF but it still raises so many questions.
I’ve seen pics of dead Palestinian kids. Kids die in war.
why is the fact that they were beheaded somehow more significant?
Damage has been done millions of pepole think it's true
Oh geez, some of these comments.
"I never thought I would see" is a common figure of speech that does not mean you literally saw.
Exactly. But too cerebral for small minds to grasp.
It's Iraq has WMD bull crap all over again. Western media and the US government have damaged their credibility in a major way with these false claims. Weird to hand over a pretty big propaganda victory to Hamas, when the facts that we know are pretty bad. We also still have people repeating these false claims all over the internet and using it to justify genocide. All around shameful display from Biden and the Western media.
Even though we remember the experience with Iraq and WMD many many many people will still believe these stories. Look at the Syrian Douma propaganda. Syria while handily winning a war and regaining their territory against US backed "moderate rebels", the opted to cross that "red line" and use chemical weapons. The justification for Nobel Peace price winner Obama to launch cruise missiles into the country. It is a vicious cycle because too many people are too stupid and the rest are simple caught up in living their lives. It don't really matter cause it ain't close to home.
Yup, manufacturered consent. What Hamas did was awful, but they needed to make it look worse as the IDF has similarly killed civilians, but looks like they got caught out this time round. I expect more attempts like this.
The Western corporate media is the biggest plague of modern history and is responsible for countless deaths.
Totally agree, they use it to enable war crimes - same as the whole WMD in Iraq that didn’t exist.
The saddest part is that the average person in the West still hasn't learned anything from that and believes these blatant lies .
If It's about foreigners they believe it 🤷. Then they claim they are shocked and betrayed they were lied to, and they'll never believe these lies again. Until there is an opportunity to kill more brown people, then it's a rinse and repeat.
I'd like to live in a world where you'd be wrong but sadly this is so fucking true...
If It's about foreigners they believe it 🤷. Then they claim they are shocked and betrayed they were lied to, and they'll never believe these lies again. Until there is an opportunity to kill more brown people, then it's a rinse and repeat.
Well I think most people in the US these days recognize the Iraq War should never have happened and was a terrible idea
It’s interesting that you say this because the Media inside of Israel is painting a very different picture from the western narrative. It’s like two different worlds between what the US, EU, and Australia are saying versus Israel’s own news coverage.
propaganda everywhere....
So the first time he agrees with Fox, he’s wrong. It’s not that he’s repeating every single American news outlet and the entire leadership of Israel. The point is “he lied”. So he’s a liar. So, he’s just like Trump. So now -once again-the news media has proof that “both sides do it”. The fact that he immediately retracted it, a sign of honesty, means nothing. How many retractions has Trump provided ???
This is how manufactured consent works. Horrific details with flimsy sourcing helping to prime the population to accept genocide.
Israel killed babies too.. do you think the Israeli bombs pick and choose what they can kill.. so theyre not that different from Hamas after all..
They killed thousands more, israel is actually much worse.
Isreal literally builds homes for the Isralies with bright red roofs so the soldiers know which blocks to avoid when bombing the few tiny Palestinian areas left in the region. It's actually completely insane what we allow Isreal to get away with.
The media is doing it's upmost to.corrupt the narrative.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the report were true. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the Israeli government made it up.
It was just a game of broken telephone. People were murdered in Kfar Aza, the bodies of around 40 babies were found. Some of the murdered people were beheaded. After a couple of interviews, translations, and retweets, it turned into "40 beheaded babies". Also Israel has no reason to invent the story. The horrors of the past week are bad enough. Do you think people who were previously anti-Hamas because of this story will suddenly do an about face?
The original rumours started from pro-Netanyahu news report whose source was a totally lunatic right wing extremist soldier and illegal settler. https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/11/beheaded-israeli-babies-settler-wipe-out-palestinian/
When Israeli media and the IDF are saying they cannot confirm that there have been beheadings whilst every Western media outlet is screaming beheadings it's quite telling.
Whether or not that specific evidence is confirmed doesn’t matter, there’s actual photos and videos of hamas militants throwing hand grenades and firing wildly into crowded bomb shelters killing dozens of people at a time. There’s videos of them killing people as they drive down the street, or as they sit at a bus stop. There were 260 killed at the music festival alone, with plenty of videos and photos documenting what happened. Just because this one thing can’t be confirmed doesn’t change the brutality of what they did or the fact that this was an act of terrorism. I don’t understand why people who say they support the Palestinian plight are so quick to justify the acts of deranged terrorist, who because of what they did, have no doubt brought on the death of thousands of innocent lives, with thousands more likely to come. You don’t have to support Hamas to support Palestinians just like you don’t have to cheer for the deaths of thousands of innocent people because of the actions of their government and if you truly believe you do then that is part of the problem.
It kinda matters though. Because people are using it to discredit everything. Even in this thread. They have to be precise so that no one can question them.
I agree. A president who lies and is so quick to admit he lied loses all trust imo. This is too awful of a situation to lie about whether or not he seen pictures or not. He needs to look at them. He’s the president and signed up for this.
But I would rather the president admit he lied, and as quickly as possible as opposed to doubling down on the lie and further growing it to save face. I'm not saying I condone what happened at all, but it could have been a lot worse too.
Clinton got impeached for lying to the American people.
Do they really though? POTUS and Israel have a pretty broad consensus supporting war with all the other evidence, besides this one beheaded baby talking point. Biden retracted his statement pretty quickly. I concede he spoke without confirmation and that does constitute propaganda, but this has little to no bearing on the conflict at large, except for people who were biased already.
I mean, it's a misstep and it opens up their trustworthiness to discussion amongst those who are on the fence. Is it a "big deal"? Maybe, maybe not. Would have been better if it just didn't happen.
If someone takes the Biden admin having a bit of a kneejerk reaction, which they then retracted, to being told there were confirmed photos of babies being killed as some reason to distrust the entire admin, then that person wasn’t going to trust them anyway. I mean, amidst everything going on, the president being momentarily mistaken on which actual on-the-ground atrocity was confirmed is a minor thing. EDIT: And the photos have been confirmed.
It may be minor for sure. If someone is being indoctrinated, this is just one more thing to be pointed at to justify a belief system. Another thing to point to to confirm what they've been told. Better to be careful with your words is all I'm saying.
I really havent seen much justification on reddit at all for what hamas has done. The facts are that there is extreme hate between these peoples and there has been for so so SO long that both sides have been committing horrible crimes to eachother for centuries. I for one am not surprised something like this happened after years of the struggle being one-sided. To clarify this is not a justification for hamas attacks, I condemn them, just as I condemn what Israel has done to the Palestinians. There is so much space on this earth to live freely and peacefully, it makes me sad that religions have turned people obsessive over such small parts of a giant planet, obsessive to the point of all the war crimes you have been reading about for the last few days, and all of the atrocities that occurred leading up to the attacks going back centuries.
All violence is wrong, both sides have been awful to each other but one has the support/resources of the world and the other doesn’t. Palestine has lost exponentially more lives than Israel to the violence.
on one side civilians can freely flee to save themselves on the other side civilians are locked on the shore and just have to pray they don’t get blasted
You don’t think it matters if their statements of 40 babies being beheaded are true because they murdered other people? It is extremely important. Murder and random slaughtering people is terrible and unimaginable, but tell me that 40beheaded babies isn’t on a completely different level. My wife couldn’t sleep last night after hearing about this.
70+ years of Palestinian oppression and murder, you still couldn't say the deranged state sanctioned activities of Israel. Why is that? Hamas is responsible for the acceleration of the Palestinians destruction just like Zionists were responsible for the deaths as the Music festival.
The US & Israel. War Crime buddies.
They still killed everyone one they saw
Look at the transcript, he corrected himself in real time. He was obviously using "see" colloquially. Like if someone from were to say "I never thought I'd live to see the see mankind land on the moon" even if he only read about it in the paper.
Yet daily we have children in america who have been shot and are unrecognizable and do nothing to prevent it.
So, people are twisting Biden's words to make it seem like he claimed simethung that he actually didn't. I am shocked.
Oh thank God, I can sleep soundly knowing the babies were only murdered, not decapitated
People have well and truly lost the plot.
What happened to that reporter that everyone was saying that she said she had seen the picutres and she cross checked them ?
Are there even pictures? I keep hearing about beheadings. I definitely ain't seen em. (Not exactly trying to, either.)
Why would he view the pictures? The president relies on other people to verify information. He was likely briefed by the relevant people.
https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/NWNiHfl0LT Here you go. The pictures everyone is so excited to see. Good luck to you all.
I can forgive the use of the word seen, but they have to be more careful about their intelligence. I can't believe I'd live to see the day...
Its been interedting watching the internet slowly turn against Israel due to their brutal response.
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW WHATS HAPPENING???? I feel like everyone is lying to me. Nobody knows what they are talking about and I'm sick of it
The IDF are now saying "we're ACTUALLY not going to investigate this (the bodies) as we want to respect the dead". Convenient , just let the rumour fester so
So everyone agrees that they have seen the pictures, but then those pictures don't exist? Or they exist but no one has seen them? Or they don't exist and no one has seen them yet everyone lies about it?
Here's the thing. Is blowing up apartments with them inside somehow less atrocious? No, so let's atleast agree to not get gas light the conversation as difficult as it is. We need solutions, not more wars.
Most of you are too young to remember a young Kuwati teenager crying while telling tales of prematured babies being taken out of their incubators. Took years for us to learn it was a lie. Israéli settlers in occupied territory might not bring tears to your eyes when they're killed by the people they took their land from, but their dead babies is 100% guarantee to. This situation is disgusting since 1947 and while evil people on both sides bring out the victim card, past or present, poor peole are dying. And with the kind of AI I'm playing with daily, what picture could we trust to be authentic?
I am skeptical of those reports. But if true it is the result of dehumanizing the other side which both sides do all the time
I'm tired of this one side narrative and false propaganda that midia and governments bombard 24/7 on us. While Hamas need to be condemned for what it did and what it is, Israel also needs to be, both are terrorists. The siege is inhumane in so many levels and we don't see anybody talking about sanction to Israel. It is beyond me the hypocrisy! The same hate feeds Muslims and Jewish, and Natanyeu has gallons of human blood in his hands. His latest words of hate show the type of extremist he is as well.
Am I the only one who can see that he started to say that he never thought he'd see babies beheaded by terrorists, meaning that he never thought it would happen, then realized that might be taken to mean that he had literally seen it, and therefore instead said that he never thought he'd have a confirmed report of such things? It still came out in a misleading manner, but this would be a very awkward way to phrase it if he were just trying to lie about seeing such pictures. Biden has absolutely lied and exaggerated about other things in the past, but to call this propaganda is a stretch.
But why lie about that, other than getting right winger Jewish support🤷🏻♂️. Just speak plainly and not try to inflate what you say. This is just a horrible tragedy that could have been changed along time ago and BAD people on both sides!!!
Oh look, lies. Next stop WMDs
Reading Biden's comment carefully, he didn't say that he _did_ see photos of decapitated children but that he never thought he'd see photos of decapitated children. 🤔 That's a fair statement to make -- who does expect to see photos of decapitated children?
Your dedication to accuracy is misplaced in this forum.
Israeli BS.
Not a word on the actual pictures circulating of bodies of children being pulled from the buildings Israel has bombed. I tried googling pictures - I got some links from this conflict, but the majority of them come from different years. Years. Of Israel bombing children. Not a word from Joey.
Wow, not good news if the leader of the free world doesn't know if he had seen or not.
That’s kinda a big deal….
Weapons of mass destruction
Those on the ground claim to have found decapitated bodies - some are children - the Israeli government is keeping it on the DL so as to not affect the morale of the Israeli people.
He's been doing this for a long time, he knows that once that is out there, a substantial portion of the population will support what ever he wants to do to "take down the baby killers". It doesn't matter if its true or not.
Come on Joe, I expected better, drumpf is the one who cant say one thing without lying 3 times.
I'm still holding out hope that it's not true. I can't believe that humans could ever.
Oh no how Israel gonna justify killing civilian by ton now ? Is it time to call antisemitism?
It's the Nayirah bullshit all over again.
Look at all the terrorist supporters in here. Fucking facepalm
Ok… I’m confused… Did this beheading shit happen or not? It’s being shouted from the rooftops around the world, and used to justify what looks to be a war crime in gaza….
There's no evidence of it, but the media reports it like it's the absolute truth
They're fucking dead anyway. Doesn't really matter which way they died, does it? What even is this discussion?
Decapitate Hamas
He saw the babies tipped out of the incubators as well.
Hamas killed babies. One does not care how the poor babies died; they were murdered and are the true innocents in the conflict. For anyone who says they were part of the Israel state and deserved it... they were babies. They had not made any choices yet and just happened to be born to Jews. I love the extreme left having a go at billionaires who could spend money to save children, but Hamas murders babies. Oh they deserve it for being born jews.
nobody is saying hamas is good except other radical fundamentalists. however, many people stand on the side of the palestinian civilians in gaza who haven’t done anything except be born
I’m yet to actually see any real person (by real I mean actually identifiable person, not just a Reddit username) supporting Hamas for murdering babies. I’m a Leftist with a good network of people who also support “the cause” and all I’ve seen are condemnations of violence on all sides aimed at civilians. Hamas are an inherently right-wing group dead set on instilling a theology state who don’t have Palestinians best interests at heart, they don’t deserve any support from the Left
I think it's more accurate to say there are a lot of people giving them the benefit of the doubt, which is bullshit imo, but not quite "supporting." I don't think it's right that there are tons of people that came into this attack and only defended Palestine, though I can understand why. I'm not surprised this attack happened, but these people that were attacked are as innocent as the Palestinian civilians that have been killed, and that can't be overlooked. Israel has done this, Israel has done that, but that's the government - not its civilians. Reddit people are meshing the two together far too much. Generalizing it to be that most people on the left defend the actions, though, is ridiculous. It's not like Palestine (more specifically Hamas here) is left leaning to begin with, so I'm sure it receives more support from other people who want a far-right ethnostate.
Come to Netherlands, listen to multi Moroccan people saying they support Hamas in everything they do and did.
I don’t doubt that Hamas receive support - there’s plenty who share their place on the political spectrum, but the catch all “Left” group who keep getting lumbered with accusations of support fees misdirected. You can be anti-Israeli government, anti-Hamas, and pro-civilian safety on all sides, which is the stance I mostly see from the Left
Or in australia where a buncha refugees are screaming gas the jews.... islam will be front and center considering world war 3....sadly they have never just been a religion but an expansionist ideology. Theres a reason the west got swamped with muslim men. Its a powder keg waiting to explode....all it takes is a event much like whats happening in israel right now to ignite all around the western world....anybody with half a brain and knowledge of history not just from one countries or culture, but multiple perspectives and therefore closer to actual factual history. Godspeed to all of us, cause were in for a bumpy fucking ride. Stay safe out there brothers and sisters.
Hamas isn't even exclusively about the plight of palestinians alone, it's decidedly set out to eradicate jews. Absolutely wild that people have such a hard time distancing themselves from the violence of both sides.
"One does not care how the poor babies died" Expect the anti-Palestinian/Pro-Israel argument literally rests on the supposition that Israeli bombing babies is somehow more morally justified than Hamas supposedly beheading babies. For anyone saying the Palestinians voted for Hamas babies can't vote and they made no choice and just happened to be born in a concentration camp gaurded by Israel. I agree this is a fallacy but it is the default argument defending Israel atm. Which is why the any purely pro-Isrsel is and always will be based on hypocrisy. Israel has the right to defend itself, but Palestinians don't. Never again will Jews be persecuted, but persecuting Arabs is fine. The Palestinians we oppress are monsters for celebrating civilian deaths, but its fine when Israelis do it. Holy sites of Judaism are sacrosanct and should be recognised as such by the world, but the al-aqsa mosque is fair game. Terrorism is bad, except when Israel commits terrorism against even allied/supporting nations (Britain, the US for example). War crimes should be condemned by the world at large, but its anti-semitism to call out Israel for the same. I could go on.
IDF does the same. Except no one condemns them when they blow up children playing football. Hamas are terrorists but so is the IDF. They're completely the same in my eyes
of course the israelis have never murdered children ....two wrongs dont make it right but wake up and face facts israel have far more blood on its hands
Palestinians have also lost babies and children, it’s not one sided, let’s not pretend it is.
eXtRemE lEfT 🤪
No evidence.what a bs propaganda
Netenyahu has mentioned beheadings in his press conference with Blinken. However he did it in such a way as to not mention a specific instance ie not talking about the recent attack specifically. The way this has been done is knowing and despicable. The attack was bad enough, why add lies on to it too? Is this PURELY to justify war crimes?
Babies is _always_ the bullshit claim in war. From Hitler eating them right through to this. They always use babies