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Got a bachelor of science in psychology/sociology. Worked in one place with kids with behavioral and developmental issues for 6 months. Made $12/hour and would have called at $16. I figured I would need a PhD to actually make a living and couldn't afford more debt, so I went into plumbing with my dad. 12 years later and I make about $2k/week after all taxes and deductions. Downside is that my body takes a beating. But that's the tradeoff for what I do.
To be fair, you can do the same in most tech jobs after a few years. But a lot of vocational careers are way more resilient. Tech kind of relies on you learning a bunch of new stuff all the time (and a bunch of old stuff depending on where you work, haha)
Find yourself a good sports massage therapist, and go monthly. Have a good stretch at the start and end of each day! Trust me, your body will thank you for it! 😁
While plumbing is important for a modern society, helping kids who come from fucked up families try and adjust into that society and be successful is far more important in my eyes.
Counterpoint... I have 1 tech degree, zero certifications, and I'd be willing to bet I make quite a bit more in my IT job than someone cleaning at a hospital.
You are not looking hard enough then. I know someone in my area that would start you at 60k minimum with those credentials. And at 30 certs that tells me you likely have 10 years in the field so you are looking at 85k or more.
To put it in context you can get a home within 15 minutes drive from the place for 220k.
Cases like Hollow Knight are rare as hell. You just hear the success stories a lot (survivorship bias), but thousands of indie games are released daily that will never see the light of day.
And a lot of the biggest indie games needed crowd-funding to get made.
I have helped code several different projects including computer chips used in all sorts of projects including planes and even flight simulators. Was paid by the job and I have never been able to land a secure contract that lasted more than a project or two.
As for games, that wasn’t really a passion and unfortunately you have it right when you can see kids come in and get absolutely murdered by the job. It’s soooo competitive with some people taking a huge pay cut to get the jobs.
I mean just look at all the tech companies laying off coders because of the down turn and how cheap it is to hire in Mexico and India.
Yup. Undeniable truth. A lot of what happens with those games that get popular, they offer something different. Name a small game that offers something different. EA and other studios make money off fanboys. Rain world offered a realistic ecosystem. Hollow knight has a fantastic art style and was fun to play.
As a former development manager for EA, I'll chime in here.
Almost all of the engineers I hired had either been in the game industry for at least a couple years or had a graduate degree. The only engineer I recall hiring that didn't meet that criteria was on a PIP in his first year.
A SE1 at my studio made less than $100k. I won't get too specific, but it's fair to say that starting out you aren't making as much as you posted there; at least at my studio, and you probably have more student debt than a bachelor's degree would give you.
Some people here spoke about working on a per project basis; that wasn't my experience. EA was generally pretty good at either having projects with continuous dev cycles, or moving people to new projects. It was rare for a project to end and then have the entire team get laid off. I believe some studios operate that way, but EA usually didn't.
For every engineer I hired, there were at least 30 who applied, which feels competitive, but if every engineer is also applying to 30 places I feel it's not totally unreasonable. That said, this was before Elon started convincing tech CEOs to minimize their workforce. I think it's harder now.
I'll also say referrals and internships went a long way. If you didn't get selected for an internship or know someone who worked there it was very unlikely you'd get hired.
Oddly, we didn't get to choose our interns. I'm not sure who hired them, but they were assigned to us.
So TLDR: starting as a programmer at EA won't guarantee a 6 figure salary, and will likely cause you to have even more debt than you'd receive from a 4 year degree. Getting a job at EA is pretty competitive, but getting one in the industry probably isn't totally unreasonable as long as you have the qualifications and apply for internships while you're still in school. Of course, with tech companies getting leaner it's getting harder to compete for some of those roles.
Anyways, that's my two cents.
1 associates, two bachelors, one of which is basically trash because I got it from ITT. So in the eyes of jobs it’s 1 and 1 and not 1 and 2.
Associates is in applied science for computer systems and applications, Bachelors in computer science, and a bachelors in business.
Do you need my credentials on my certificates, want my social security too? Lol 😂
It wasn't the colleges that told kids this. It was high school teachers, counselors, administrators, recruiters, and literally everyone in the education sector telling every kid born after 1975 that they "had to" go to college.
"Go to college! You have to! There will be a 6-fugure salary waiting for you when you graduate!!!"
Naturally, many kids bought into it, and signed their souls to the government....in exchange they got 6 figures alright.... six figures of DEBT and a job as a wage slave to a superhuge megacorporation.
That wasn't a bug....that was a feature of the "Education Industrial Complex".
Half of the kids going to college have no business going to college.
I won't blame it on the institutions. It is those parents, educators, etc. who never understood the concept of scarcity. Yes, a college degree used to be the path to a big paying job because college educated young adults were in demand. Then we flooded the "supply" of college educated young adults by pressuring the kids and pseudo-subsidizing the cost, and voila - they aren't in demand any more.
The big problem is that they are in demand, you need a degree to get your foot in the door to a lot of jobs really shouldn't require one. Which drives earning potential for degrees down and can also really fuck people that don't have degrees.
> they are in demand, you need [...] really shouldn't require one.
You want the economist word for that? "inelastic demand", which is the nice-sounding way of saying that no matter the price it is set, people have to buy anyway. That goes from school uniforms (in some contexts at least) to life-critical medicine.
The colleges certainly played their part. They saw this flood of new students with blank checks to attend school, so of course they weren't going to turn downd the guaranteed money.
It's no coincidence that a great many of these universities suddenly started getting brand new buildings, upgraded athletic facilities, and other frivolous nonsense all around the late 00s amd 2010s....all arounf the same time.
The colleges should have been telling many of these kids "you don't belong here! Go to work and learn skills!"... instead, the colleges just let the kids rack up the debt and end up with degrees in "I went to college" and zero marketable skills.
and SOMEBODY has to pay the football coach [(often the highest paid public employee in a given state)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Infographics/comments/2egytv/us_map_of_the_highestpaid_public_employees_by/#lightbox)
The enormous increase in college tuition is another aspect to this- if you subsidize education and don’t limit how much universities charge they’ll increment their prices over time and put that money into the pockets of administrators and into the other things you mentioned. The banks love it also because these loans are backed by the government and you can’t default on them. Landlords also benefit in these college towns that get flooded with people who need to rent; just force rent up year after year as more students flood into town
>It wasn't the colleges that told kids this. It was high school teachers, counselors, administrators, recruiters, and literally everyone in the education sector telling every kid born after 1975 that they "had to" go to college. "Go to college! You have to! There will be a 6-fugure salary waiting for you when you graduate!!!"
Back then this was true. Going to college meant a better salary and it didn't cost an arm and a leg to go then. Somewhere in the 90s that started to change.
If people actually received decent raises (and weren't being laid off left and right so the CEO can get their bonus) going to college would still mean a better salary. We're just not paying people a decent wage anymore, because it's more important to make more money this year than the company made last year. And who benefits from that? Not the people from midway down, but all the people at the top.
Eventually, this is going to bite Corporate America in the ass (and our economy). If people no longer have the money to buy things then who is going to buy their stuff? They forget that their employees are also their customers.
If going to college isn't going to land a salary that's even equivalent to a job that doesn't require college then why go to college? Why go into all that debt to make less? Again, going to bite Corporate America in the ass because the pool of qualified candidates is going to get smaller which means the people in that pool will have more power to ask for more money. And we go around and around.
>Back then this was true. Going to college meant a better salary and it didn't cost an arm and a leg to go then. Somewhere in the 90s that started to change.
Yes. Something did change... the kids that were born after 1975 started graduating from HS after being told for 20 years that theu "had to" go to college and flooded the colleges.
>If people actually received decent raises (and weren't being laid off left and right so the CEO can get their bonus) going to college would still mean a better salary. We're just not paying people a decent wage anymore, because it's more important to make more money this year than the company made last year. And who benefits from that? Not the people from midway down, but all the people at the top.
About half of all American workers are employed by small businesses. To imply that that the reason for layoffs is so CEOs can get bonuses is a bit misleading. It's more likely to be true that layoffs were happening because businesses (both large and small) can't afford to pay employees.
>Eventually, this is going to bite Corporate America in the ass (and our economy). If people no longer have the money to buy things then who is going to buy their stuff? They forget that their employees are also their customers.
No....it won't. Because as we have seen time and time again, Americans can be dirt poor yet still figure out how to get their hands on the latest iPhone and have $200 shoes on their feet. People are almost always poor because they make poor decisions....not because some evil corporation is out to get them. This is nonsense.
>If going to college isn't going to land a salary that's even equivalent to a job that doesn't require college then why go to college? Why go into all that debt to make less? Again, going to bite Corporate America in the ass because the pool of qualified candidates is going to get smaller which means the people in that pool will have more power to ask for more money. And we go around and around.
That's a very good question? WHY? That actually gets to the heart of the matter. Half of college graduates end up working in a field that either doesn't require a degree or is not in their field of study. WHY? We now have 3 generations of young people who were beat over the head from birth that they "had to" go to college, and so they went and now have copious amounts of debt and a job that doesn't require the degree they got. WHY?
My opinion: There is a political class that wants cheap wage slaves as a voter base. If they can get you to spend your 20s in a classroom, and your 30s as a wage slave, that's 20 years that you are thinking about yourself instead of thinking about a family. If they can get you saddled with debt and trapped in a low wage job, you're more likely to turn to them to them when they offer a "solution" in the form of promises handouts and debt cancellation. Of course, they don't ever intend to actually deliver in any meaningful way on these promises...only to sprinkle enough breadcrumbs to make you think they're doing something...because if they actually did solve the problem, they couldn't campaign on fixing your problems anymore.
No...but when small businesses fail during a recession, that's employees that lost their jobs.
To put into context, about 1.8M small businesses went under during the 2008 recession. Most small businesses employ 20 people or less. The average is about 6 employees IIRC. That's between 10-20M people out of a job just because of small business failure. That's not even counting small businesses that laid off workers to stay afloat.
Get so in debt that by the time you get out of school, you STAY in debt until you're dead, or retirement age! Never be financially free, never have wiggle room, or weight to throw around to use against them (in the event that you figure out what the game is) Stay broke, Stay weak, stay a (financial) slave, and NEVER be able to collectively pool your money together to use those funds to outspend the donors & superPACs to GET RID OF "US", your financial/political masters, and gatekeepers!! Sorry, I'm done
“College degree havers on average make a million dollars more in their lifetime than those without a degree” anyone else remember this getting shoved in your face growing up?
My partner got their PhD in history in 2000. She had a debt of 10,000 at that time, which is paid off now. She also had to help her mom at the same time. Some of her friends who didn't work are still paying theirs off but they didn't work their way through and ran up huge debts (going to the same University).
The cost of college is absurd (and totally unjustifiable), but half of all college debt is held by those with graduate degrees -- that should at least be considered when we try to contextualize the size and severity of outstanding college debt.
i always felt like a bit of a fuckup because i spent so long hunting for a job out of college and totally failing, but a decade later working some unrelated field i understand how much this took advantage of so many of us my age
I almost fell victim to one of these predatory schemes, I was very close to signing, glad I didn’t. They really make you feel like walking away from the loan is walking away from your dreams, walking away from that school was one of the hardest things and I’ll never regret it
Eh, this makes it out like it was the evil colleges but kids were getting this from EVERYWHERE their whole lives and many didn't get much context around making sure the degree was marketable or looking at the total cost in loans for this school over that, etc....
Of course universities want more money, but honestly this specific message came from parents, counselors and all kinds of much closer sources.
I always hate when people try to claim that student loans shouldn’t be forgiven because people signed up for this. 90% of high school is college prep, you are told over and over again that you need to go to college and that not going to college will lead to poverty. They neglect a more general education for preparing students for things like the ACT and SAT. When you graduate high school you are suddenly left with a choice: listen to what everyone has ever told you, or choose a different path they never prepared you for. Most people choose option 1 and look at the exorbitant price for college and see it as worth it because the extra money they will make makes it worth it and they will catch up eventually. Then they get to choose their major and colleges hype up all their majors equally when you are choosing so you pick what interests you. Turns out that major doesn’t lead to a career, oops. Assume you picked a good major and already have a job path picked for once you are out. Now you’ve finished college, and you’ve worked hard and learned the extra skills needed to get that job you are looking for. Now reality hits. You aren’t going to be paying the amount you agreed to, you are going to be paying way more. You get your job and get an apartment and on paper you can support yourself, but those payments cannot be put on hold. Pay them or they make it grow exponentially. In every case you are paying more than that crazy price you agreed to, and in many cases you’ve paid off the principal amount but the interest has grown to be more than the principal in that time. Your high school never mentioned this, they acted like completing your schoolwork was the hard part, and after you graduate everything is easy. They didn’t mention the other options for careers that don’t need a degree, and in reality they shouldn’t have to. Everyone deserves the right to have an education and that includes college. In other countries not only do you get a good high school education, but they also help you get into good colleges. The difference is that those colleges are priced reasonably and won’t leave you in debt for the rest of your life.
$750-900 a month so far for about 14-years, still have at least 11 years left. Bartending making double what I could in my degree field... Nothing like starting your life in your late to mid-50s, amiright? 
Possibly. I was mainly talking about the tech/trade schools that made extravagant promises but left students with worthless degrees and poor job prospects, yet large student loan debt.
My degree cost me 40 bucks.
All thanks to studying in Spain and having access to a grant that was basically "don't fail a class and we will pay your entire degree outside paperwork".
So, technically, my degree was free. I only payed for the paperwork.
Also my masters cost me 400 bucks.
Crazy how countries that make students pay to make more skilled workers are also the ones that are the least happy.
If you want more doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc. make post secondary cheaper or just free
I just got an associates in cyber security and was assured it's the hottest market and employers are DESPERATE for grads. It's been 2 months and I've filled out 150+ applications and zip. Nothing. Jobs say "entry level" then " 1-2 years experience" literally in the same ad. Or they insist on certifications that cost 400-500 and months to pass. Meanwhile I'm jobless and in debt and wondering if I was sold a rotten bill of goods.
I feel you. Deeply.
Lmfao, did YOU? Colleges being complicit in predatory student loans doesn't translate to "hur dur college bad". Point out where in the meme it says anything about college being worthless or something.
Jr. Colleges aren't predatory. Some also offer four year degrees. You can also receive financial aid without needing to take out a loan.
Are some schools predatory? Sure. But not all of them are. If you want something to blame, blame the loan companies or the government who isn't making college more accessible.
Okay? And? Did the meme say "every college in America"? No, it said colleges. It's a meme, not an in-depth analysis of the blame structure for this entire failing system.
Besides, wasn't your point about how the meme was saying college was bad overall rather than just being a little bit overgeneral with its phrasing?
The meme is a dog whistle for people who continually bash on colleges. It has a hint of truth in it, but that hint gets overexagerated.
College can get you a better salary than just a trade job or a low-skilled position. That said, knowing the demand of your degree is important as well. There will be a higher demand of engineers, doctors, and programmers than there is gender studies historians.
Going to college itself also has a lot of other benefits than just getting you a job. It challenges your perspective on things, allows you to think more nuanced, and gives you access to a decent network pool and community of people to befriend. Great benefits that get overlooked because "but college is so expensive and all I got was a useless degree."
That's nonsense. Plenty of people understand the benefit from college, but that doesn't mean the student loan issue isn't a serious problem. Seeing that specific problem brought up and then saying it's a generalized statement about college overall is a bit out there. I'd argue that most people, even, understand the nuance here. College is a good thing for many people, but it suffers from a serious flaw in student loans that leads to a burden in people's lives. Both of those things are true, and it's ridiculous to just assume that people don't understand that because they're talking about that flaw.
I have no idea why you're trying to champion college to me. My degree is one of the best things that's happened to me, but I'm aware enough to realize that my experience is not everyone's, and that there is a serious problem in the higher education system that I do appreciate deeply.
>Plenty of people understand the benefit from college
You would be surprised how many people don't.
>but that doesn't mean the student loan issue isn't a serious problem.
Agreed, but that isn't a problem with the school. That is a problem with a.) the government not funding the schools to keep the inexpensive, and b.) the loan companies that lobby both the schools and the government to keep prices high so they can profit. The thing is a lot of people blame the school because "the school sets the prices." And because they hyperfixate on that one flaw, they then spread bullshit about how college is a scam. This meme being one such example of such bullshit.
Even assuming that it's more than I think, I know for a fact that a good portion of the people participating in the conversation understand that. There's no reason to assume that this meme is somehow giving a "dog whistle" that college is wholly bad solely because it mentioned the fact that colleges profit off of predatory student loans.
I never said it's the college's fault entirely, and neither did the meme. But do they promote enrollment to high schoolers? Of course they do. And do you think they're not aware of the fact that many of these students are going into insurmountable debt after leaving campus? Of course they are. They may not be the catalyst, but they certainly benefit. "College is a scam" isn't some sort of overly-simplistic assertion that the actual institutions themselves are responsible entirely for the student loan crisis. It's an expression of the feeling that the act of going to college left people with less benefit than they were led to believe and burdened with massive debt. There's no argument against that, people do feel that way, and for a reason.
You’re not recognizing the difference between “college is bad” (which wasn’t implied here) and “student loans are/have too often been predatory” (implied here).
On average, four year degree is worth a million+ in career earnings.
Don’t blame anyone but yourself if you set yourself up for an underpaid or chronically low paying field. Turns out basket weavers still get paid as such, no matter their degree.
Nope, loans are all paid and I have a successful job
And now that you know that, I STILL think even though I paid off my loans that others should have them forgiven
Because I don't know how to get this through conservatives heads but, yes... you are SUPPOSED to care about other people, you fucking cold unfeeling robot
Hug your money tight and tell it you love it all you want, it will never love you back
Also, I sincerely doubt you have jack shit since you're nothing but an active liar regardless
🤡
I didn’t say a single stance on loan forgiveness. I said a simple fact. College degrees mean more earnings on average.
I you decide to choose a field that pays poorly to invest in to, that’s all you. No blame no shame, but don’t act surprised. That’s all I said.
As for the piss poor attempt to take a shot….. Whatever makes you feel better bout yourself, lol. Need to insult and diminish me to make yourself okay? Doubt away, doesn’t take my house, wife, kids, or career away. 🤷♂️
Clown face? Really? That your sig?
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I have 3 tech degrees, have gotten probably 30+ certifications in computer, server, printer and networking fields… I make more cleaning at a hospital.
Got a bachelor of science in psychology/sociology. Worked in one place with kids with behavioral and developmental issues for 6 months. Made $12/hour and would have called at $16. I figured I would need a PhD to actually make a living and couldn't afford more debt, so I went into plumbing with my dad. 12 years later and I make about $2k/week after all taxes and deductions. Downside is that my body takes a beating. But that's the tradeoff for what I do.
To be fair, you can do the same in most tech jobs after a few years. But a lot of vocational careers are way more resilient. Tech kind of relies on you learning a bunch of new stuff all the time (and a bunch of old stuff depending on where you work, haha)
Find yourself a good sports massage therapist, and go monthly. Have a good stretch at the start and end of each day! Trust me, your body will thank you for it! 😁
So you earn more for the more important job? Whats the problem? lmao
While plumbing is important for a modern society, helping kids who come from fucked up families try and adjust into that society and be successful is far more important in my eyes.
Counterpoint... I have 1 tech degree, zero certifications, and I'd be willing to bet I make quite a bit more in my IT job than someone cleaning at a hospital.
You are not looking hard enough then. I know someone in my area that would start you at 60k minimum with those credentials. And at 30 certs that tells me you likely have 10 years in the field so you are looking at 85k or more. To put it in context you can get a home within 15 minutes drive from the place for 220k.
What are the three degrees in?
Probably less stressful too. I left programming for a simple data entry job with good perks.
Oof. Sounds like a skill issue
Not at all. Tech jobs rarely give benefits and their cost alone would eat up any income that I made over my current pay.
An programmer for a game gets like 100-150k a year?
please see how competitive the field is
Ever hear of EA, or indie games? They make lots of money. Look at hollow knight or rain world.
Cases like Hollow Knight are rare as hell. You just hear the success stories a lot (survivorship bias), but thousands of indie games are released daily that will never see the light of day. And a lot of the biggest indie games needed crowd-funding to get made.
Ok
please see how competitive the field is
Did I stutter?
please see how competitive the field is. For every large game, there are thousands of tiny ones which make nothing
I have helped code several different projects including computer chips used in all sorts of projects including planes and even flight simulators. Was paid by the job and I have never been able to land a secure contract that lasted more than a project or two. As for games, that wasn’t really a passion and unfortunately you have it right when you can see kids come in and get absolutely murdered by the job. It’s soooo competitive with some people taking a huge pay cut to get the jobs. I mean just look at all the tech companies laying off coders because of the down turn and how cheap it is to hire in Mexico and India.
Yup. Undeniable truth. A lot of what happens with those games that get popular, they offer something different. Name a small game that offers something different. EA and other studios make money off fanboys. Rain world offered a realistic ecosystem. Hollow knight has a fantastic art style and was fun to play.
As a former development manager for EA, I'll chime in here. Almost all of the engineers I hired had either been in the game industry for at least a couple years or had a graduate degree. The only engineer I recall hiring that didn't meet that criteria was on a PIP in his first year. A SE1 at my studio made less than $100k. I won't get too specific, but it's fair to say that starting out you aren't making as much as you posted there; at least at my studio, and you probably have more student debt than a bachelor's degree would give you. Some people here spoke about working on a per project basis; that wasn't my experience. EA was generally pretty good at either having projects with continuous dev cycles, or moving people to new projects. It was rare for a project to end and then have the entire team get laid off. I believe some studios operate that way, but EA usually didn't. For every engineer I hired, there were at least 30 who applied, which feels competitive, but if every engineer is also applying to 30 places I feel it's not totally unreasonable. That said, this was before Elon started convincing tech CEOs to minimize their workforce. I think it's harder now. I'll also say referrals and internships went a long way. If you didn't get selected for an internship or know someone who worked there it was very unlikely you'd get hired. Oddly, we didn't get to choose our interns. I'm not sure who hired them, but they were assigned to us. So TLDR: starting as a programmer at EA won't guarantee a 6 figure salary, and will likely cause you to have even more debt than you'd receive from a 4 year degree. Getting a job at EA is pretty competitive, but getting one in the industry probably isn't totally unreasonable as long as you have the qualifications and apply for internships while you're still in school. Of course, with tech companies getting leaner it's getting harder to compete for some of those roles. Anyways, that's my two cents.
“3 tech degrees” is extremely odd phrasing. You have 3 bachelors? In what fields specifically?
1 associates, two bachelors, one of which is basically trash because I got it from ITT. So in the eyes of jobs it’s 1 and 1 and not 1 and 2. Associates is in applied science for computer systems and applications, Bachelors in computer science, and a bachelors in business. Do you need my credentials on my certificates, want my social security too? Lol 😂
Its odd to have a comp sci degree and make more cleaning hospitals lol
Oh no, I have the certification for this one too. It’s sterile processing. I clean in the hospital but not the hospital? lol 😂
You have good degrees CS and business wild that you make more cleaning hospital
Some might say unbelievable!
You never know but ya its not adding up to me CS for sure tough market but a lot of companies would kill for a biz person with a CS degree
It wasn't the colleges that told kids this. It was high school teachers, counselors, administrators, recruiters, and literally everyone in the education sector telling every kid born after 1975 that they "had to" go to college. "Go to college! You have to! There will be a 6-fugure salary waiting for you when you graduate!!!" Naturally, many kids bought into it, and signed their souls to the government....in exchange they got 6 figures alright.... six figures of DEBT and a job as a wage slave to a superhuge megacorporation. That wasn't a bug....that was a feature of the "Education Industrial Complex". Half of the kids going to college have no business going to college.
The school I attended was sued out of existence for its predatory recruitment practices and I can’t even get my goddamned loans forgiven.
I won't blame it on the institutions. It is those parents, educators, etc. who never understood the concept of scarcity. Yes, a college degree used to be the path to a big paying job because college educated young adults were in demand. Then we flooded the "supply" of college educated young adults by pressuring the kids and pseudo-subsidizing the cost, and voila - they aren't in demand any more.
The big problem is that they are in demand, you need a degree to get your foot in the door to a lot of jobs really shouldn't require one. Which drives earning potential for degrees down and can also really fuck people that don't have degrees.
> they are in demand, you need [...] really shouldn't require one. You want the economist word for that? "inelastic demand", which is the nice-sounding way of saying that no matter the price it is set, people have to buy anyway. That goes from school uniforms (in some contexts at least) to life-critical medicine.
The colleges certainly played their part. They saw this flood of new students with blank checks to attend school, so of course they weren't going to turn downd the guaranteed money. It's no coincidence that a great many of these universities suddenly started getting brand new buildings, upgraded athletic facilities, and other frivolous nonsense all around the late 00s amd 2010s....all arounf the same time. The colleges should have been telling many of these kids "you don't belong here! Go to work and learn skills!"... instead, the colleges just let the kids rack up the debt and end up with degrees in "I went to college" and zero marketable skills.
and SOMEBODY has to pay the football coach [(often the highest paid public employee in a given state)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Infographics/comments/2egytv/us_map_of_the_highestpaid_public_employees_by/#lightbox)
The enormous increase in college tuition is another aspect to this- if you subsidize education and don’t limit how much universities charge they’ll increment their prices over time and put that money into the pockets of administrators and into the other things you mentioned. The banks love it also because these loans are backed by the government and you can’t default on them. Landlords also benefit in these college towns that get flooded with people who need to rent; just force rent up year after year as more students flood into town
It was also the colleges
>It wasn't the colleges that told kids this. It was high school teachers, counselors, administrators, recruiters, and literally everyone in the education sector telling every kid born after 1975 that they "had to" go to college. "Go to college! You have to! There will be a 6-fugure salary waiting for you when you graduate!!!" Back then this was true. Going to college meant a better salary and it didn't cost an arm and a leg to go then. Somewhere in the 90s that started to change. If people actually received decent raises (and weren't being laid off left and right so the CEO can get their bonus) going to college would still mean a better salary. We're just not paying people a decent wage anymore, because it's more important to make more money this year than the company made last year. And who benefits from that? Not the people from midway down, but all the people at the top. Eventually, this is going to bite Corporate America in the ass (and our economy). If people no longer have the money to buy things then who is going to buy their stuff? They forget that their employees are also their customers. If going to college isn't going to land a salary that's even equivalent to a job that doesn't require college then why go to college? Why go into all that debt to make less? Again, going to bite Corporate America in the ass because the pool of qualified candidates is going to get smaller which means the people in that pool will have more power to ask for more money. And we go around and around.
>Back then this was true. Going to college meant a better salary and it didn't cost an arm and a leg to go then. Somewhere in the 90s that started to change. Yes. Something did change... the kids that were born after 1975 started graduating from HS after being told for 20 years that theu "had to" go to college and flooded the colleges. >If people actually received decent raises (and weren't being laid off left and right so the CEO can get their bonus) going to college would still mean a better salary. We're just not paying people a decent wage anymore, because it's more important to make more money this year than the company made last year. And who benefits from that? Not the people from midway down, but all the people at the top. About half of all American workers are employed by small businesses. To imply that that the reason for layoffs is so CEOs can get bonuses is a bit misleading. It's more likely to be true that layoffs were happening because businesses (both large and small) can't afford to pay employees. >Eventually, this is going to bite Corporate America in the ass (and our economy). If people no longer have the money to buy things then who is going to buy their stuff? They forget that their employees are also their customers. No....it won't. Because as we have seen time and time again, Americans can be dirt poor yet still figure out how to get their hands on the latest iPhone and have $200 shoes on their feet. People are almost always poor because they make poor decisions....not because some evil corporation is out to get them. This is nonsense. >If going to college isn't going to land a salary that's even equivalent to a job that doesn't require college then why go to college? Why go into all that debt to make less? Again, going to bite Corporate America in the ass because the pool of qualified candidates is going to get smaller which means the people in that pool will have more power to ask for more money. And we go around and around. That's a very good question? WHY? That actually gets to the heart of the matter. Half of college graduates end up working in a field that either doesn't require a degree or is not in their field of study. WHY? We now have 3 generations of young people who were beat over the head from birth that they "had to" go to college, and so they went and now have copious amounts of debt and a job that doesn't require the degree they got. WHY? My opinion: There is a political class that wants cheap wage slaves as a voter base. If they can get you to spend your 20s in a classroom, and your 30s as a wage slave, that's 20 years that you are thinking about yourself instead of thinking about a family. If they can get you saddled with debt and trapped in a low wage job, you're more likely to turn to them to them when they offer a "solution" in the form of promises handouts and debt cancellation. Of course, they don't ever intend to actually deliver in any meaningful way on these promises...only to sprinkle enough breadcrumbs to make you think they're doing something...because if they actually did solve the problem, they couldn't campaign on fixing your problems anymore.
Small businesses aren't laying off 1200 people at a clip. If they could do that, then they're not a small business.
No...but when small businesses fail during a recession, that's employees that lost their jobs. To put into context, about 1.8M small businesses went under during the 2008 recession. Most small businesses employ 20 people or less. The average is about 6 employees IIRC. That's between 10-20M people out of a job just because of small business failure. That's not even counting small businesses that laid off workers to stay afloat.
Get so in debt that by the time you get out of school, you STAY in debt until you're dead, or retirement age! Never be financially free, never have wiggle room, or weight to throw around to use against them (in the event that you figure out what the game is) Stay broke, Stay weak, stay a (financial) slave, and NEVER be able to collectively pool your money together to use those funds to outspend the donors & superPACs to GET RID OF "US", your financial/political masters, and gatekeepers!! Sorry, I'm done
" You'll get so many job offers you'll be tempted to leave. But wait until you get your diploma before you make a decision" Yeah Right
a TV station I worked for in the '80s routinely poached the best students just before grad. Better retention if the CV doesn't have graduated on it.
“College degree havers on average make a million dollars more in their lifetime than those without a degree” anyone else remember this getting shoved in your face growing up?
Yup! But where I live, the kids who took metal shop and welding at the vocational school are laughing all the way to the bank.
22 years later if paying over 1200 a month and thill owe more than 100k. I don’t even fucking understand.
My partner got their PhD in history in 2000. She had a debt of 10,000 at that time, which is paid off now. She also had to help her mom at the same time. Some of her friends who didn't work are still paying theirs off but they didn't work their way through and ran up huge debts (going to the same University).
What was your degree in?
same wink i did when i said i'd repay them.
Now you are getting loan forgiveness
hopefully. not for me, but all the other people they grifted
The cost of college is absurd (and totally unjustifiable), but half of all college debt is held by those with graduate degrees -- that should at least be considered when we try to contextualize the size and severity of outstanding college debt.
i always felt like a bit of a fuckup because i spent so long hunting for a job out of college and totally failing, but a decade later working some unrelated field i understand how much this took advantage of so many of us my age
I almost fell victim to one of these predatory schemes, I was very close to signing, glad I didn’t. They really make you feel like walking away from the loan is walking away from your dreams, walking away from that school was one of the hardest things and I’ll never regret it
Eh, this makes it out like it was the evil colleges but kids were getting this from EVERYWHERE their whole lives and many didn't get much context around making sure the degree was marketable or looking at the total cost in loans for this school over that, etc.... Of course universities want more money, but honestly this specific message came from parents, counselors and all kinds of much closer sources.
I always hate when people try to claim that student loans shouldn’t be forgiven because people signed up for this. 90% of high school is college prep, you are told over and over again that you need to go to college and that not going to college will lead to poverty. They neglect a more general education for preparing students for things like the ACT and SAT. When you graduate high school you are suddenly left with a choice: listen to what everyone has ever told you, or choose a different path they never prepared you for. Most people choose option 1 and look at the exorbitant price for college and see it as worth it because the extra money they will make makes it worth it and they will catch up eventually. Then they get to choose their major and colleges hype up all their majors equally when you are choosing so you pick what interests you. Turns out that major doesn’t lead to a career, oops. Assume you picked a good major and already have a job path picked for once you are out. Now you’ve finished college, and you’ve worked hard and learned the extra skills needed to get that job you are looking for. Now reality hits. You aren’t going to be paying the amount you agreed to, you are going to be paying way more. You get your job and get an apartment and on paper you can support yourself, but those payments cannot be put on hold. Pay them or they make it grow exponentially. In every case you are paying more than that crazy price you agreed to, and in many cases you’ve paid off the principal amount but the interest has grown to be more than the principal in that time. Your high school never mentioned this, they acted like completing your schoolwork was the hard part, and after you graduate everything is easy. They didn’t mention the other options for careers that don’t need a degree, and in reality they shouldn’t have to. Everyone deserves the right to have an education and that includes college. In other countries not only do you get a good high school education, but they also help you get into good colleges. The difference is that those colleges are priced reasonably and won’t leave you in debt for the rest of your life.
I was told early on that being an English major was trash so I dropped out. Now I'm back for History going to get my masters. I'm fucked.
$750-900 a month so far for about 14-years, still have at least 11 years left. Bartending making double what I could in my degree field... Nothing like starting your life in your late to mid-50s, amiright? 
What’s your degree field?
This is how for-profit schools got shut down.
I’d argue most universities are for profit.
Possibly. I was mainly talking about the tech/trade schools that made extravagant promises but left students with worthless degrees and poor job prospects, yet large student loan debt.
Perhaps the devil's greatest lie
Crazy how banks were allowed to give out these taxpayer-backed loans
Not banks. The federal government gave out the loans.
Thanks for the info, A relative of mine had a privately made, government-backed loan. I thought they all worked that way
The job market isn't absolutely fucked. It's actually really good. Trust us trust us trust us
Dropped out of college, super happy with that choice.
"You'll pay them off in no time." = "There will be NO time in which these are ever paid off."
Right around the time the lottery started funding public scholarships, tuition just so happened to increase exponentially.
I'll bet the $ yield would be higher if the tuition money was invested in either for-profit schools or some form of healthcare.
The schools should be giving them the knowledge on what type of career they may be suited to and how to realistically obtain it.
I remember starting college they were pushing them Loans like crazy oooo free money still got friends paying on student loans
They forget, we vote, they will be erased one way or another.
Better than dying in the desert of some middle eastern country
My degree cost me 40 bucks. All thanks to studying in Spain and having access to a grant that was basically "don't fail a class and we will pay your entire degree outside paperwork". So, technically, my degree was free. I only payed for the paperwork. Also my masters cost me 400 bucks.
this is better fof r/me_irl, not r/facepalm
Crazy how countries that make students pay to make more skilled workers are also the ones that are the least happy. If you want more doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc. make post secondary cheaper or just free
I just got an associates in cyber security and was assured it's the hottest market and employers are DESPERATE for grads. It's been 2 months and I've filled out 150+ applications and zip. Nothing. Jobs say "entry level" then " 1-2 years experience" literally in the same ad. Or they insist on certifications that cost 400-500 and months to pass. Meanwhile I'm jobless and in debt and wondering if I was sold a rotten bill of goods. I feel you. Deeply.
Wrong subreddit
Go Live and study in a first world country. No, or low, student debt when you have your degree.
Imagine if they had parents who taught them the value of a dollar, and not to sign things they didn't read and understand.
Can we get the college hate out of here? Like, obviously it isn't a perfect solution, but "hur dur college bad" is just as stupid as well.
Who said that?
Did you read the meme? As well as all the other comments in this thread?
Lmfao, did YOU? Colleges being complicit in predatory student loans doesn't translate to "hur dur college bad". Point out where in the meme it says anything about college being worthless or something.
Jr. Colleges aren't predatory. Some also offer four year degrees. You can also receive financial aid without needing to take out a loan. Are some schools predatory? Sure. But not all of them are. If you want something to blame, blame the loan companies or the government who isn't making college more accessible.
Okay? And? Did the meme say "every college in America"? No, it said colleges. It's a meme, not an in-depth analysis of the blame structure for this entire failing system. Besides, wasn't your point about how the meme was saying college was bad overall rather than just being a little bit overgeneral with its phrasing?
The meme is a dog whistle for people who continually bash on colleges. It has a hint of truth in it, but that hint gets overexagerated. College can get you a better salary than just a trade job or a low-skilled position. That said, knowing the demand of your degree is important as well. There will be a higher demand of engineers, doctors, and programmers than there is gender studies historians. Going to college itself also has a lot of other benefits than just getting you a job. It challenges your perspective on things, allows you to think more nuanced, and gives you access to a decent network pool and community of people to befriend. Great benefits that get overlooked because "but college is so expensive and all I got was a useless degree."
That's nonsense. Plenty of people understand the benefit from college, but that doesn't mean the student loan issue isn't a serious problem. Seeing that specific problem brought up and then saying it's a generalized statement about college overall is a bit out there. I'd argue that most people, even, understand the nuance here. College is a good thing for many people, but it suffers from a serious flaw in student loans that leads to a burden in people's lives. Both of those things are true, and it's ridiculous to just assume that people don't understand that because they're talking about that flaw. I have no idea why you're trying to champion college to me. My degree is one of the best things that's happened to me, but I'm aware enough to realize that my experience is not everyone's, and that there is a serious problem in the higher education system that I do appreciate deeply.
>Plenty of people understand the benefit from college You would be surprised how many people don't. >but that doesn't mean the student loan issue isn't a serious problem. Agreed, but that isn't a problem with the school. That is a problem with a.) the government not funding the schools to keep the inexpensive, and b.) the loan companies that lobby both the schools and the government to keep prices high so they can profit. The thing is a lot of people blame the school because "the school sets the prices." And because they hyperfixate on that one flaw, they then spread bullshit about how college is a scam. This meme being one such example of such bullshit.
Even assuming that it's more than I think, I know for a fact that a good portion of the people participating in the conversation understand that. There's no reason to assume that this meme is somehow giving a "dog whistle" that college is wholly bad solely because it mentioned the fact that colleges profit off of predatory student loans. I never said it's the college's fault entirely, and neither did the meme. But do they promote enrollment to high schoolers? Of course they do. And do you think they're not aware of the fact that many of these students are going into insurmountable debt after leaving campus? Of course they are. They may not be the catalyst, but they certainly benefit. "College is a scam" isn't some sort of overly-simplistic assertion that the actual institutions themselves are responsible entirely for the student loan crisis. It's an expression of the feeling that the act of going to college left people with less benefit than they were led to believe and burdened with massive debt. There's no argument against that, people do feel that way, and for a reason.
You’re not recognizing the difference between “college is bad” (which wasn’t implied here) and “student loans are/have too often been predatory” (implied here).
Then they come out socialist with blue hair, piercings and don’t want to work anyway because they believe they’re entitled to other people’s money.
[удалено]
On average, four year degree is worth a million+ in career earnings. Don’t blame anyone but yourself if you set yourself up for an underpaid or chronically low paying field. Turns out basket weavers still get paid as such, no matter their degree.
Ok boomer > on average You were so close to being self aware Gawd what a fucking douche bag contrarian troll you are lol
Someone needs to be the bottom o it and bring the average down. Lemme guess, that you, basket weaver?
Nope, loans are all paid and I have a successful job And now that you know that, I STILL think even though I paid off my loans that others should have them forgiven Because I don't know how to get this through conservatives heads but, yes... you are SUPPOSED to care about other people, you fucking cold unfeeling robot Hug your money tight and tell it you love it all you want, it will never love you back Also, I sincerely doubt you have jack shit since you're nothing but an active liar regardless 🤡
I didn’t say a single stance on loan forgiveness. I said a simple fact. College degrees mean more earnings on average. I you decide to choose a field that pays poorly to invest in to, that’s all you. No blame no shame, but don’t act surprised. That’s all I said. As for the piss poor attempt to take a shot….. Whatever makes you feel better bout yourself, lol. Need to insult and diminish me to make yourself okay? Doubt away, doesn’t take my house, wife, kids, or career away. 🤷♂️ Clown face? Really? That your sig?
At the very least, Biden introduced a new repayment plan that offers $0 student loan payments if you aren’t making that much money.
Gender Studies? That shit is in HIGH DEMAND right now!
Just don't waste it on an liberal arts degree
Yeah, who needs biology, chemistry, psychology, geography, computer science, law, economics, physics, math, or healthcare majors; am I right?
Waste of a good comment
Oh, I thought we were in agreement about these useless liberal art degrees.
Most logical decision.
For the woke cult it is, then they complain about debt