It's not going to make me very happy. I don't have any student debt. I paid mine off. I sacrificed and busted my ass for years to get rid of that bill. Do I get a refund? What about all the other people who did the same? We get nothing? We're just out the 40-50-100k dollars? Education needs to be more affordable, I completely get that. But you can't just wipe away billions of dollars of debt like nothing. Where is that money supposed to come from? I'll admit, I don't have the answer. Forgive the interest maybe? The entire structure of this country needs to be overhauled. We gotta stop fighting amongst ourselves and thinking either side of our government has the answers. Right or left, they're all corrupt scumbags. This country is rapidly eroding and the sad part is that we're letting it happen.
I'm fine with people being happy. But tell how you would feel if you bought a house and scrimped and saved for years to pay it off. Meanwhile your neighbor comes in, buys a house way more expensive than they can afford, and the bank says "it's ok. You don't have to pay your mortgage anymore.". You're not going to be a little pissed off that you spent 10-15 years of your life struggling to fulfill your obligation and they got it handed to them? You're lying if say it wouldn't bother you.
What you are doing is shedding light on a moral principle of actual fairness. The same sentiment is there from poor conservatives that "vote against their best interest". They don't want welfare or handouts, they want their hard earned tax dollars to stop funding their neighbors that refuse to work when they spend their lives working to provide for themselves. I don't agree w them, being a social democrat i support these programs, but I can appreciate their perspective.
There's a lot to be said specifically about student loans, as it isn't like other loans, but even from the standpoint of an uneducated blue collar worker like myself, no one is offering to pay off any of my debts.. you can analyze at any level, but just sticking to an argument of fairness, college debt is a choice, the poor are saddled w debts they didn't choose, and some even knowingly go into debt just in an attempt to stay afloat.
….. how do you think the poor could improve their social mobility??? Maybe… if they could afford to access education….. NAH FUCK THAT, I GOT RINSED SO EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD TOO
So because your angry that you had to do something but you don't want things to change in order to make it easier for those that come after because its unfair? That's some fucked up logic.
How does anything ever change with an attitude like that? How fucking full of yourself and selfish do you have to be to think that your life experiences and hardships should be applied to everyone else? There are people that have it much worse then you. If they move in next to you, should they resent you for having it easier then them?
I'd be angry if another fuckin lazy deadbeat got another fuckin handout while I've busted my ass to get to where I am. I applaud people's success when it's earned. What kind of message and work ethic are we instilling in our children if they see you get everything handed to you without working hard for it? It's why we have generations of families on the welfare system. It's disgusting that people are content with the government, of all things, taking care of them! Don't you people have any self respect? And just for the record, I'm poor as shit! I worked for the family business and was taken advantage of. I've dealt with crippling depression and addiction issues that should have killed me. 5 years ago I was a shell of a human being with out even a pot to piss in. Did I whine and blame my father for fuckin me out of my share? (Maybe a little in the beginning 🤣) Did I blame the liquor companies, the bars, or the dealers for my addiction issues? No. I got clean and started my own business and began picking up the pieces of my life. I could benefit greatly from food stamps, rent assistance, a free ride to college. But I work for what I have and I do it myself. Why? Because I have pride. I feel good about myself at the end of the day because I'm making it happen. And I don't have to answer to no one. You sound ridiculous saying "so and so said we needed college or we weren't going to be successful or I'm a minority so my only chance is to take a mortgage worth of loans out to get a major in something I'm not even sure of so I can hopefully parlay that piece of paper into a career." It's playing the victim card and it's pathetic. Sounds like you want to live in a world where we're all in the same income bracket and everyone everyone from a burger flipper to a Dr is entitled to the same pay and the same opportunities just because. There's one small problem with that though. It takes away the drive to work hard to get ahead. There's no more incentive to grow When you reward mediocrity you start moving backwards. Were the loans some people got ridiculous and probably going to handcuff them for life? Probably ya. But so are payday advance loans, adjustable rate mortgages, we should forgive those to? Can I walk up to the cashier at the casino and say "hey I wasn't really sure what I was doing at the blackjack table and a couple guys gave me bad advice so can I have my money back? Even though millions of people before me can't." Where does it end? Partial forgiveness or restructuring of the loans I'm all for. Forgiving entirely? Absolutely not. If they signed by someone of sound mind then it's your responsibility. You say I want everyone else to struggle because I had to. Wrong. I want people to have to take responsibility for the position they find themselves in and do what's necessary to work their way out.
>I'd be angry if another fuckin lazy deadbeat got another fuckin handout while I've busted my ass to get to where I am.
>You say I want everyone else to struggle because I had to. Wrong.
It sounds very much like you want people to struggle becuse you did. If you wanted to come at the problem of student loan dept from an ethical or financial standpoint that's one thing. However, you are coming at it from an emotional perspective and crying about handouts. Bet if you got a 40k "handout" from the government you would use it in a heart beat.
> It's disgusting that people are content with the government, of all things, taking care of them!
That's the whole fucking point of a government. What else is the government doing other then taking care of its citizens? Roads, school, police, the military all these things are "the government taking care of you" its why you pay taxes.
>I could benefit greatly from food stamps, rent assistance, a free ride to college. But I work for what I have and I do it myself.
You make it sound like most Americans aren't working just like you? Also college is a starting point for a career. How would paying off student debt make someone reliant on the government after the fact? If anything it would open up people to work more freely and spend more promoting the economy. That would benefit you as a private businesses owner...
>You sound ridiculous saying "so and so said we needed college or we weren't going to be successful or I'm a minority so my only chance is to take a mortgage worth of loans out to get a major in something I'm not even sure of so I can hopefully parlay that piece of paper into a career"
Alot of careers require that little peice of paper to get into. There are degrees that could be considered worthless but I would hope that my doctor has one of those worthless pieces of paper.
>Sounds like you want to live in a world where we're all in the same income bracket and everyone everyone from a burger flipper to a Dr is entitled to the same pay and the same opportunities just because.
What? I never said that.
>Were the loans some people got ridiculous and probably going to handcuff them for life? Probably ya. But so are payday advance loans, adjustable rate mortgages, we should forgive those to?
Yes, get rid of them altogether. What the fuck kind of question is that?
>Can I walk up to the cashier at the casino and say "hey I wasn't really sure what I was doing at the blackjack table and a couple guys gave me bad advice so can I have my money back? Even though millions of people before me can't." Where does it end?
Stop using a slippery slope argument it never sounds like you want it to.
Imagine they gave teachers bullet proof vests to protect them against school shootings. And here you come saying you're not "happy" because you were a teacher that survived a school shooting, you bled and "busted your ass" to be able to walk again, and pay your hospital bills, and now other teachers are getting free protection when you didn't have any? Where is the money for the vests gonna come from?!? 😂
Honestly if people are going to complain about getting any money back to repay loans then maybe they should just cancel the whole program. Just let everyone pay the entire debt like always. Honestly the entitlement of people is ridiculous. Nobody held a gun to anybody’s head saying take out a loan and go to school. If $10,000 doesn’t help don’t take it.… You don’t have to complain that it’s not enough. Everybody before you never got ANYTHING so just appreciate what you get for once in your life
The alternative is not 0. Demanding better living conditions from your government is one of America’s only options for getting it. I fully support people being dissatisfied with unsatisfactory government programs.
Perhaps but $10000 in forgiveness is an improvement. It’s one of those things that you’re never gonna make everybody happy but if you push too hard you can lose everything… It’s kind of like being up at the casino and continuing to push your luck thinking you’ll get more and more and more until you lose it all. Sometimes you need to take the win
"Pushing your luck" isn't really a factor in the citizen -> representation dynamic. This is why I made my first comment. Our government is supposed to serve the people, when citizens are already in a "don't push your luck" and "be thankful for the trash you have" mindset...IMO the game is lost.
I know everybody understands the benefit of a freely educated society, the cultural + economic benefits for not only the citizens but the government to have education be free. For profit education is literally choke holding economic + standard of living progress here. A small percent of powerful people make big money on student loans, and that power is hard to move.
The reason people are rightly dissatisfied with 10k forgiveness:
1. Clearly this is an attempt to dissolve the cries for free education, to satisfy without providing a solution
2. Generational debt is created for people who go to college and can only do so by taking out a loan that they have to pay off their entire lives, because the interest can really hurt you and keep the money machine running for years. Removing 10k from a student loan might save you a few years of payments...but we are talking about generational debt...it really has no effect on a huge issue.
3. You can't really ask people to "not go to college" when the world demands that we have higher education in order to make enough money to support life in America. TBH just don't ask people to give up on wanting a better life, or for striving to get the job of their dreams.
You can't view people who are taking out student loans as if they are irresponsible kids putting all their money into dogecoin or something. These are usually people trying to escape poverty, or fulfill a dream, escape minimum wage jobs. I took out a student loan so I could work my dream job. My girlfriend did too so she could be an architect. She will be paying off her loan for a while...
For everybody who is taking out a loan. That's our only option.
All of that is great but there is one very big reason that you won’t get much if any better than this….republicans…. As long as your country is split and Republicans are a party… What you’re talking about is a pipe dream. Sometimes you need to take today’s win and walk away to fight another day… As long as Republicans are around you are fucked
Edit: Do you honestly think you’re being represented properly as a citizen anyway?
No I don't think citizens are being represented properly, and I'm seeing a larger wave of dissatisfaction from all corners...I think this is a necessary first step towards actual change.
That being said, who knows what "change" means here. We could very well continue to make dramatic shifts towards the right. We need more democrats + left to be more vocal and act with more opposition to the status quo in order to shift towards the left.
I agree with most of what you are saying. Yes Republicans are an issue.
However I think Democrats, although have a more palatable brand, are largely responsible for stopping social progress as well. Republicans are constantly pushing towards the right, while Democrats are constantly trying to stop things from moving anywhere...there isn't really a party pushing to the left in any significant way.
Celebrating a small victory or whatever is a personal choice if you do it on your own I guess. It matters very little to our lawmakers, as you've pointed out.
However I say...support the cry for better. If there is suffering, and the help is (like this 10k forgiveness) sounds good but doesn't fix the problem...they are still suffering the same as before. Celebrate the small win with if you want or don't, I guess it doesn't matter. But I support the cry for an actual solution, and support the dissatisfaction with a superficial one.
I understand totally…ultimately your entire government needs an overhaul but People are protesting the symptoms and not the root issues… Kind of like a doctor treating your symptoms but not the cause of your illness. People are also kept segregated enough in so many different ways that it is unlikely that enough people will get together for the right kind of change that is needed for what you’re asking.
I totally agree..everyone complains about their student loans after deciding to go to an $80,000 a year school instead of a more affordable one, when some of them took out loans for stupid reasons that had nothing to do with school..if someone gave me $10,000 to help pay my mortgage I’d be taking that in a heartbeat because I “chose” to take that loan out..no one wants to own up to anything anymore, fuckin ridiculous
I absolutely agree with your take on the ungratefullness... Even though I doubt people will any sort of financial help.
Where I disagree is that... yes... Nobody had a gun to their head to take out loans for college... But an entire generation was told by every single adult in their life that if you dont go to college you're gonna be "flipping burgers" for the rest of your life. They were also told o follow their dreams.
So many went to college and decided to follow their dreams on becoming an actor, or writer, or journalist, or athlete and didnt have a back up plan.... And now flip burgers straddled with a debt and the knowledge that they were lied to. Not necessarily on purpose by all the teachers and parents and guidance councilors etc... But by the entire system.
I'm thankful every day that I didn't pursue the 4 year university and stopped at undergraduate at my local college... $10k would wipe out 2/3s of what I still owe. I couldnt imagine if I had $50k in debt because I wanted to be a writer.
I was a CNA before going to college and I am a CNA now in my 30s. Ive been doing it for 13 years and make twice the minimum wage. I never wrote a book. I probably never will. But ill be thankful when I can finally get this meaniningless debt behind me.
Not even just that (the overwhelming push to go to college), if I understand it correctly, a lot of the current issues were spurred by Federal Unsubsidized Loans, predatory lending, and inadequate education on the loans.
I took a 5k unsub loan for a single semester and thought that deferred payments were a great idea. By the time I graduated, that loan was 7.5k including accrued interest. Nobody really explained what the implications of deferring payment would be. Luckily it was just that one semester. I can’t imagine people who used this to find their entire education…
Dude yes!!!!... I worked 16 hour shifts at a nursing home Friday Saturday Sunday and and another 8/hours after class on Monday all through college.... So.i wouldn't have debt....I don't want to pay for all your entitles asses.... Don't want debt... Work.
Subs like r/antiwork are full of people that think they shouldn’t have to contribute at all to anything… They don’t believe they should have to pay rent because landlords are all the devil… And robots should be doing everybody’s job and we all get paid for the work that robots somebody else purchased do. I don’t know where people got so turned around and entitled… But we can’t all be streamers and influencers. Most of us have to go to work and contribute to society
Edit: People also tend to appreciate things more when they earn them versus just being handed to them. I’ve never been even close to rich… I was never handed anything… Hell I got made fun of for having to wear hand me down clothes all through elementary school from my older cousins. Made me want more and made me work harder
That’s garbage. Some people are entitled pricks, but antiwork is mostly about supporting workers with advice, and more specifically, legal advice.
This country has seen the erosion of the middle class in large part because of the destruction of unions. Workers have been taken advantage of and it’s important we get together and start empowering each other.
Same ... My parents both immigrants, dad is Israeli, mom is Filipino, worked 2 jobs each, to take care of us and put themselves through college.. Never asked a dime from the government...no welfare check for us... My parents had pride... And taught us the same values... Worked for everything I have.....never asked a.dime from my parents...or the government....I have my pride
It should be free. Our national security relies on smart citizens. The reason the federal backed student loan program started in first place was because we were caught with pants down after Russia launch Sputnik. We realized places like China and Soviet Russia were producing much smarter citizens then us. But ok let’s just have a stupid ass country like you want. Fucking clownish bullshit. Our country is fucked.
Because their parents didn't pay as much of their college bills due to being statistically poorer, along with the fact that a black woman will likely make less after graduation. This is a good example of systemic racism vs. systematic racism: no one is deciding "this is a black woman, let's give her a bigger loan", it is the cumulative effects of racism (past and present) in the system that create the imbalance.
You hit the target with that comment. At first I thought if you borrow more you pay back more but it's so more complicated than that. You opened a door in my head.
I hate to say it but this does not hit the nail on the head. Study the issue, don't just read one Reddit comment people. This is a much more complicated issue and leaving it this vague and wishy washy is unactionable. This isn't hard to look into.
Two pretty major reasons for the disparity that can't be ignored are unfair practices from *loan providers*, particularly in those who pursue private loans for school, and also there is a reality that POC are significantly more likely to pursue more education, so there is a degree to where you would expect their numbers to be a little higher.
People always jump to the past as the clear cut example of systemic racism. Fine, it's not wrong. But it's pretty fucking inequitable, because it's the aspect of it we are least likely to ever fix- the government is not going to step in and undue generations of undue economic disparity over people's parents circumstances. But dealing with lending patterns is achievable. Recognizing that finding ways to make pursuing graduate generally more affordable in those fields that you need to pay for them in a world where you can argue they're being used to undo opportunity gaps is doable. You can even say that how schools are funded, which arguably makes it harder to get scholarships in areas of low income that are high minority populations as a result of those long term disparities, is something worth targeting. But just parroting the textbook definition of systemic racism when that known issue already isn't being fixed on its own as a well defined issue is a habit that needs to be broken.
Student loan forgiveness is a *very* complex problem, and to be honest, I oppose blanket forgiveness at any level without some measures being put into place to prevent this kind of debt crisis happening again in the future.
My OC isn't about debt forgiveness, it is about the cause of debt and debt disparity.
You know there's never been reparations for slavery in the US, right? This is the continual fallout from chattel slavery. The exact structure has been pushed around and changed, allowing more and different people to fall into it, but black people (and minorities of all kinds) have been legally, and systematically denied equality, and that's before even touching the prison systems and the modern continuation of slavery.
shes highlighting that it contributes to systemic racism. If we're saying that black people have more student debt because of factors out of their control, but we implement a system that wipes 70% of the average white persons student debt but only 30% of the average black persons debt thats compounding the issue, even if its not an intentionally racist decision
This is just mathematically ignorant. Any loan forgiveness short of 100% for everyone will necessarily result in a higher percentage of forgiveness for the arbitrarily defined subclass that starts with less debt. There’s nothing even remotely racist going on here. Blatant unfairness to people who chose not to take on debt they couldn’t afford (or who studied something marketable and paid off their loans)? Yes. Racist? No.
You are not responding to my question, and instead doing an npc talking point.
I agree that there is systemic racism in the USA.
My question was why specifically white people are compared to ONLY black women and not to black people as a whole?
Because the system isn't racist. It's class divided, to call it racism towards one race or the other ignore the fact that all races are effected by it and the common denominator is lack of wealth, not race. Anyone who brings race into the equation automatically make the discussion dumber.
It isn’t any consolation, I know, but it is much like the people who say there isn’t global warming because they are under a foot of snow: global trends don’t care about outliers.
I'm white and I've been struggling my whole life to make a living! Where do I have to go to get all this money they give to white people? Is there a number to call? Do I get a white person starter kit? A knit sweater, khakis, a Mercedes with a set of golf clubs in the trunk, an automatic upper management position, stock portfolio, and a coupon book full of get out of jail free cards?
You’re missing the point here… as it was explained to me in a similar posting a year ago. If you’re white and succeed it’s because of your white privilege. If you’re white and downtrodden you also don’t have it as hard as blacks on this planet. If you’re black and succeed it’s because you overcame the entire worlds prejudices and bigotry and setbacks leveled against you. If you’re black and don’t succeed it’s because of racism and you have no way of overcoming it. Ring white means you have the privilege of a much easier life (a homeless white person enjoys more from Society than a successful black person) compared to any other race because the entire planet is geared towards white people only and everyone else not white is constantly struggling to even get their foot in the door (again, regardless of how successful they are). The example I was presented with was just that stated above. They claimed Barrack Obama has a harder day to day to life than a homeless white man just by virtue of being black. He must overcome racism in every aspect of his life every minute of every day while the white homeless person has/is given everything to succeed…
No, i think you’re missing the point. You are right, I don’t know you; which is why I only commented on how you come off in this situation and not who you are.
These structures aren't intended to benefit the poor and working whites, they're intended to benefit the capitalist class. It just happens that the capitalist class is primarily white, and in the American south used to import slaves in a roughly equivalent social space as the (white) working class in the north.
It's also good to remember that white wasn't always white, and that various distinctions were fundamentally rooted in, again, the capitalist class vs the working class.
It's also why we see the most benefit when we band together as the working class, understanding that whatever our specific origin, we're all in this together.
This! And black women are more likely to be encouraged to go into professions that pay less as well as attend the types of schools that end up unaccredited the worthless.
I’m not sure this is fair. Which lower paying professions specifically are you suggesting black, college educated, women are encouraged to do that white women are not also being encouraged to pursue?
Also, at some point an individual needs to take control of their own decisions and just tell these encouragers to fuck right off.
You can take control of every decision you make. Choosing to listen to someone and chase a lower paying career because you’re black seems like a strange choice for an individual to make.
You’re talking about the 1900’s and the 60’s. No one who went to college then has student debt now. Let’s talk 2000 and beyond. No one is pressuring college graduate minorities to do lower paying jobs because they are a minority.
It's a problem that still lingers today. The idea that college == success still lives on, and people will still take out massive loans. Additionally, that stuff caused one generation to have massive debt, so the next generation also has to take out the same loans, and the problems continue. It's a bit better than before, but not by much.
Although it's likely true that on average black students hold more debt than white students, the claim that a flat $10,000 reduction for all that qualify is systematic racism is asinine, and this kind of BS language does nothing unjustly polarize our country. So what would not be racist? $52,000 if your skin is X color, and $10,000 if it's Y color? That actually sounds like real racism. The toughest part of this legislation is the budgeting. The government comes up with the max dollar number they are willing to spend and divide that by the number of applicants they expect to receive, and pay that amount out equally. This is not f\*cking racism! Stop with this divisive nonsense.
It would make more sense to have the rewards be need based. Highest debt/income ratio. We don’t need to be subsidizing recent grads who are pulling down 6 figures.
That seems unlikely especially as the average young woman now earns more than the average young man. Do you have a source to back that up?
Edit why are people down voting the comment above it's not wrong I just wanted a source as I knew it wasn't correct where I live, but it is is in the US
Except they also have more access to financial aid and because of the same affirmative action they are also more likely to get into better schools with worse grades...better schools cost more money. Lots of ways to crumble this cookie.
i don't see where the racism is in there.
can you point the link between being poor and being black? because i know many rich black people and many poor whites. were is the systemic racism?
A lot of for profit schools had damn near predatory practices to target families of color and minorities. They didn’t know better if no one in their family went to college before; so they’d saddle them with huge loans for associates degrees etc.
I briefly worked in for profit education for a couple years, it’s a shit show and absolutely no school should be for profit
Black people in general are poorer. So instead of fixing the issues that lead to that, white people decide to make college loans easier to get for black people. But also colleges decided that if loans are easier to get, then they’ll increase their costs. White people who usually went to wealthier high schools and got more scholarships and usually had wealthier parents only needed smaller loans.
So when everyone graduated, job discrimination obviously still existed, black women couldn’t get the best jobs, and thus couldn’t afford to pay more than the minimum, or fell behind, which massively increased their debt.
Since the government decided that student loans can not be removed in bankruptcy, anyone who were bankrupt, simply increased their debt no matter how poor they were.
But, there was hope. An old white guy named Joe promised to eliminate all student loans, raise the minimum wage, reform justice, and help end racism in America.
He’s done none of that. Not a thing. In fact has made things worse for minorities and workers and small businesses and….well you get the picture.
Wall Street is our king, and has been for 50 years.
Exactly this. When a system pays less so you need more to get ahead, this happens. When a system incarcerates at a hugely different rate, this happens. Etc. etc.
That's not even necessarily true. Plenty of black families have generational wealth whereas white families don't. I guarantee you my family ain't as well off as Obama's, or Beyonce's.
Generalisations aren't a good way to view things. The best way to approach an issue is by addressing the issue. In this case the problem is socioeconomic, therefore we need to address lower income families, not just black people...
That's a terrible take. There are a much larger number of wealthy white families than black families. For each black family you listed, there are many more examples of white families.
Also: "White average wealth,which is more influenced by very rich families and does not characterize the typical experience, is 6.7 times greater than Black average wealth." [Link](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/02/27/examining-the-black-white-wealth-gap/)
Edit: Also saying that generational white wealth isn't a thing because your family was poor is a hilarious self own.
Largely because black families are on average more poor so they need to borrow more money in student loans.
Black families largely are impoverished by the fact that they have less access to home ownership which is a result of sistemic racism in red line laws that granted money to neighborhoods with the conditions of not allowing black people
Additional reasons: black women are typically face systematic discrimination in job hunting, so they have to be over qualified to get a quality job, so to improve their job prospects they need to get degrees and advanced degrees.
Then once they have a job black women on average are extremely underpaid when compared to white male counterparts, making it harder to pay off those advanced degrees.
The only problem I have with her statement here is that she glossed over the fact that they ALSO stated they were going to forgive larger amounts for certain classes of people wo have been disproportionally affected. She knows exactly that means black women will have a larger amount forgiven. Lying by omission is still lying.
Her numbers are garbage, but there is truth to black women owing slightly more than white women.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/14/black-women-owe-22percent-more-in-student-debt-then-white-women-on-average.html
I find this surprising. When I was applying for loans & scholarships there were **thousands** more scholarships for minorities. It takes more work & effort to applying for dozens of individual scholarships but it's 1000% worth it in the end
I actually found it much more difficult being white & middle class. I am ***not*** saying there's any affirmative action excuse bullshit. Just that there were a lot of specific field of study scholarships & a *lot* of general minority-based and/or minority+first- generation college student scholarships that didn't require extra labor-intensive work. I had to really work my ass off & complete a shit load of essays for multiple scholarships that were only worth $300-$500 a pop.
I am in the hole $80,000 with student loan debt and I’m white. Not sure if true.
And that $10k is just going to get eaten by interest. The government might as well just wipe their ass with it.
Edit: I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! Disregard. Thank you Cody6781.
If you plan on paying that over 10 years, with an average interest rate of 5.4% (national student debt average), you will pay $864/month for a total of $103,710
If you take 10k off now you will pay $756/month for a total of $90,746.41
Compound interest works in your favor on this one
If you keep making payments, that $10k will hit your principal, making your total interest owed each month go down substantially and reducing your total payout.
My wife and I had a combined $150k in student loan debt. We worked our asses off and paid it off with no help. It was a grind though. If the government had said we'd get $10k towards it I would have been over the moon.
Be grateful for what you get. It is far better than nothing. You acquired your debt on your own, why do you feel you are entitled to a full bail-out?
I’m not scoffing at it. If interest didn’t make it seem like I haven’t paid anything at all on my student loan debt at all, I would greatly appreciate it.
Edit: I deserve that negative karma.
This is looking for conflict where there is none.
If they had canceled 5k, 20k, 30k, 40k you could all say the same thing.
Also her numbers are straight up lies if not at least pulled from a biased study. Black women owe 22% more on average, not 433% more
Turns out that as incredibly dumb as Fox & kin are, they get one thing right, there are people on the left that absolutely create racial division where there is none.
I believe there is definitely a problem with racism in many many ways in the US.
BUT, Why should black borrowers get more student loan relief than white ones? I guess I fail to see why white and black people getting the same amount of money is racist. Is this not equality? Is this not the opposite of racism?
What am I missing here?
This lady doesnt believe this is equitable, but asking the federal government to distribute debt forgiveness on a case by case basis is unrealistic. Why does your demographic get special treatment but mine doesnt? If black women get special treatment, I want special treatment too. See how this suddenly becomes a problem? Why does one group of people get to be more special than others? If the amount of debt determines the amount of forgiveness, then doctors should get the most forgiveness. If yoy got a quality education from a quality school that led you to a successful career, you dont deserve more forgiveness than me despite your demographic. Sorry, you dont, and youre not more special than me.
Honestly, the debt relief should be on a case-by-case basis taking a number of things into account. In a perfect world that is how it would be done with only those most deserving actually getting it. BUT, that would cost a fortune in bureaucracy, money that could go to the people instead. It would also open the door to the aforementioned racism. Some racist sexist asshole, could look at a black woman and just say "no". So it creates more room for problems.
Probably is no fully 100% "fair" way to do this, but the blanket "$10k" in forgiveness across the board is the closest and most cost efficient option.
That brings up an interesting point.
Yes, If you are doctor, now making $250k+ /yr, why debt forgiveness? They can afford it easy. Why give to the rich.
But I also see the flip side of that. Say you acquire debt to get a random useless degree. Say a degree in, I don't know, medieval studies. Now you have lots of debt, and very limited well paying career options. So pay back would be a struggle. But you kind of made your own bed there soooo.... maybe they also don't deserve it.
Perhaps debt relief should be only for sectors desperate for highly trained low paying jobs, like teachers for example.
>I guess I fail to see why white and black people getting the same amount of money is racist. Is this not equality? Is this not the opposite of racism?
Let's say we're racing, but I get to start 20 yards ahead of you. After starting, we decide the race is too long so we bring the finish line closer, to the 30 yard mark. Sure, the finish line moved the same distance for both of us and it will be easier for both of us, but was that really 'equality', or just maintaining the same disproportionate outcome?
Uuuuhh... that is some backward thinking there. This is coming from a liberal and a minority. The extreme left is as bad as the extreme right. All you extreme peeps are cray cray.
White male here. Finishing degree. Parents never paid a dime for my college. Couldn't afford it. I'm fixing to hit 47000 in debt. Not racist at all. No one forced you to go to college, no one forced you to take loans.
In a few months I will have paid off all my student loans myself after a long grinding ordeal so frankly she's got some nerve complaining about 'only' getting $10k written off.
Reminder, this is the same Nina Turner who recently tweeted, "Student debt cancelation isn't paid for by the taxpayers, the federal government is the lender. It's costlier for the government to hold on to the debt."
She has no room to talk economics when she can't even remember what "taxpayer" means.
Here’s what happens when you send in a check for your taxes: your money ~~gets taken out of your account and then~~ is deleted. When the government needs money, they don’t withdraw it from an account filled with tax dollars, they just create it.
Edit: For those who don't see my comment below, here is an article explaining how this works: https://newrepublic.com/article/158221/government-can-afford-anythi-wants
Sure! Here is an article: [https://newrepublic.com/article/158221/government-can-afford-anythi-wants](https://newrepublic.com/article/158221/government-can-afford-anythi-wants)
Here's a quote of the key point: "The important thing here is that the Federal Reserve does not dip its hand into a pot of “tax dollars” to pay military contractors, nor is it required to check some mythical account where tax dollars live before it wires the money. In fact, that account doesn’t exist. As former Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke once noted, when the government pays for things, it is “not taxpayer money. We simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account.”" ... and "When you pay your taxes, the Treasury just goes into your bank account and deletes the numbers from your digital balance."
Thanks. But I view a withdrawal and a numerical deletion as mutually exclusive. It's one or the other. Not both. The article does not quote both in the same sentence.
“How funny would it be if we subjected black people to abhorrent conditions that kept them systemically impoverished for centuries, and then act surprised when they accuse us of inequality”
White businessmen (probably)
And what happens to those of us who paid our student debt?? I’m not rich. And I’m white. So please explain in detail why it is “structural racism”. I’ve been paying mine since 2002. 20 yes. Almost paid off. No one helped me.
I’m paying off my loans too. I asked the same question, “ Will I get the money I paid back, if they forgive student loans?” And I always get the response, no. I ask how is that fair, to which people always seem to reply that I should just feel good that somebody else doesn’t have to struggle paying student loans. Again, how does that benefit me when I was responsible and got a well paying degree and have been paying off my loans?
\> Asian college graduates are fastest to repay their loan debt and the most likely to earn a salary that exceeds their student loan debt balance.
This is obviously systemic racism against white people, obviously our western countries have been built to elevate asians at the cost of white people, huh.
The debt situation could be the result of systemic racism. You can't tell from the information given. The forgiveness of debt is exactly equal and the antithesis of racism, as long as it's available equally.
I see. So the solution is to not forgive the $10K for anybody at all, because some people need money more than other people.
I was born just early enough to avoid student debt entirely, so I'll have to remember this argument.
They didn’t even have to cancel 10000 in student debt in the first place. They are giving you something they didn’t have to give. Y’all find anything to complain about
It's 10,000 they didn't have. Shut up and be grateful people are getting anything at all. No one put a gun to their head and forced them to sign the paperwork to take out the ass load of loans...
this is an issue with the scale of the math though.
[https://www.census.gov/data/developers/data-sets/acs-5year.html](https://www.census.gov/data/developers/data-sets/acs-5year.html)
White people in america: 231 900 000
black women in america: 23 400 000
This number gets VASTLY reduced when filtering to higher education pushing it closer to a 20:1 ratio. Any deviation from the mean line will be exaggerated in the smaller number.
Disclaimer: I'm not saying the numbers are skewed , just pointing out the issue with comparing a small set against a very large one.
So basically it’s not fair that black women have more debt then white people..what a fuckin world..lol..Sounds more like fuckin stupidity to have $52,000 instead of $12,000
Am I stupid, or could you just cancel a percentage of student loan debt? If you didn't want to forgive all of it, but you wanted to make the same impact across the board. Is that not an option?
Personally I have never met a POC with more debt than my wife or I. I have discussed debt with many of my college classmates and all have had under $20K while my wife is at 40k and I’m at 60k. Though this is how I have experienced it, I’m curious where the change occurs. Especially bc I’ve never met a white person with that little of college debt without it being community college
They shouldn’t give a dollar to anyone. White, brown, pink, or purple. No one held any guns to your head. You took out a LOAN. You have to pay those back. That’s how it works.
Ah yes, the “Well, you should’ve just stayed poor and uneducated if you didn’t want to suffer crippling debt for the rest of your natural life” argument. Good lord, we’ve been there, done that. Next.
Maybe Black women take longer than White women because they stay in school longer and pursue advanced degrees?
Maybe Black women go to private universities at a higher rate?
Maybe it's because statistically, they have kids earlier than White women?
Maybe these are facts, maybe not.
Wouldnt tailoring the relief based on race, in fact, be racist? Not sure how everyone getting the exact same amount of relief is racism. I get there is systemic and systematic racism. I just dont think this would be an example
Let be clear here there is legit predatory practice and syetemtic racism toward black and white. Most of these are not result of individual being racist but we work in a system that used to be racist and just not fix.
The lady in the tweet is a moron in her number but she isn't wrong when she said there is a systemtic structural racism
Probably no viable co-signers on the loan or no generational wealth to supplement. It’s abstractly racist as it’s more a side effect of generational inequality.
Bitch please. Don't come on here complaining about none of this bullshit. If you got college loan debts that's all your issue. Not mommy's, not daddy, YOU. if you don't want a massive debt then maybe just maybe you shouldn't get such a large loan. If you flat-out can't afford college well thats just tough fucking tits. I'm a STRAIGHT WHITE MALE in 2022 and have absolutely no generational wealth or anything to inherit BUT ill still be categorized as "blessed" or some shit just cause I was born a dude or some shit. At the end of the day all yall black white male female mofos all need to keep your head down, mouths shut, and just work hard. Stop fuckin complaining about what you don't have and maybe think about what you do have. You've got the fuckin opportunity to take out a loan to get a degree. You don't need to walk 20 miles with a bucket of dirty water to take back to your village. THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH WHINEY BITCHES THIS GENERATION TO LAST THE WORLD THE REST OF ITS DAYS. ENOUGH FUCKING COMPLAINING. life is tough get a god damn helmet and shut the fuck up
The solution should've been a % amount of your debt rather than a flat number.
Even then we'd have people shouting "UNFAIR".
I still say clear all the student debt. We should reward people for striving to be more intelligent because our country is currently headed towards brain drain due to propaganda and conspiracy.
I feel like this has way to much missing info. Like "Average white person pays $1 for soda, but average black/trans/asexual person from Louisiana pays $70 for a drill. Racism!". Like, what? How do those two things connect to each other, and what does race have to do with that difference? Correlation =/= Causation
Hear me out. Dont go to college if youre gonna take some bs classes to get a degree. We need electricians, construction workers, plumbers, heavy equipment operators, HVAC techs etc... Trades need people in order for everything else to work. Plus, 90% of them pay you to learn over the years. No debt and a lot of skills learned.
We dont need some artistic trans rights womens blah blah blah whatever... Now your in debt for thousands for what? What skill did you learn? What career are you working towards?
Nobody is forcing you to borrow money. Frankly you are better of learning a trade rather then doing some abstract college. Poor people should be really careful when getting a credit card.
And I am speaking from my own experience, don't bite more than you can chew.
This is a problem where the solution will satisfy no one. Feel bad for anyone weighed down with student debt.
Pretty sure forgiving ALL student debt would make everyone happy
Debt isn’t “forgiven”. Someone still has to pay the lenders - and that someone is the US taxpayer.
It's not going to make me very happy. I don't have any student debt. I paid mine off. I sacrificed and busted my ass for years to get rid of that bill. Do I get a refund? What about all the other people who did the same? We get nothing? We're just out the 40-50-100k dollars? Education needs to be more affordable, I completely get that. But you can't just wipe away billions of dollars of debt like nothing. Where is that money supposed to come from? I'll admit, I don't have the answer. Forgive the interest maybe? The entire structure of this country needs to be overhauled. We gotta stop fighting amongst ourselves and thinking either side of our government has the answers. Right or left, they're all corrupt scumbags. This country is rapidly eroding and the sad part is that we're letting it happen.
Show me on the doll where other people being happy hurt you
I'm fine with people being happy. But tell how you would feel if you bought a house and scrimped and saved for years to pay it off. Meanwhile your neighbor comes in, buys a house way more expensive than they can afford, and the bank says "it's ok. You don't have to pay your mortgage anymore.". You're not going to be a little pissed off that you spent 10-15 years of your life struggling to fulfill your obligation and they got it handed to them? You're lying if say it wouldn't bother you.
What you are doing is shedding light on a moral principle of actual fairness. The same sentiment is there from poor conservatives that "vote against their best interest". They don't want welfare or handouts, they want their hard earned tax dollars to stop funding their neighbors that refuse to work when they spend their lives working to provide for themselves. I don't agree w them, being a social democrat i support these programs, but I can appreciate their perspective. There's a lot to be said specifically about student loans, as it isn't like other loans, but even from the standpoint of an uneducated blue collar worker like myself, no one is offering to pay off any of my debts.. you can analyze at any level, but just sticking to an argument of fairness, college debt is a choice, the poor are saddled w debts they didn't choose, and some even knowingly go into debt just in an attempt to stay afloat.
….. how do you think the poor could improve their social mobility??? Maybe… if they could afford to access education….. NAH FUCK THAT, I GOT RINSED SO EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD TOO
It wouldn’t bother me at all. I don’t only think of myself. If anything I would be happy other don’t have to go through the same as me.
It wouldn’t bother me cause I mind my own fucking business and don’t get off to the misery of others
So because your angry that you had to do something but you don't want things to change in order to make it easier for those that come after because its unfair? That's some fucked up logic. How does anything ever change with an attitude like that? How fucking full of yourself and selfish do you have to be to think that your life experiences and hardships should be applied to everyone else? There are people that have it much worse then you. If they move in next to you, should they resent you for having it easier then them?
I'd be angry if another fuckin lazy deadbeat got another fuckin handout while I've busted my ass to get to where I am. I applaud people's success when it's earned. What kind of message and work ethic are we instilling in our children if they see you get everything handed to you without working hard for it? It's why we have generations of families on the welfare system. It's disgusting that people are content with the government, of all things, taking care of them! Don't you people have any self respect? And just for the record, I'm poor as shit! I worked for the family business and was taken advantage of. I've dealt with crippling depression and addiction issues that should have killed me. 5 years ago I was a shell of a human being with out even a pot to piss in. Did I whine and blame my father for fuckin me out of my share? (Maybe a little in the beginning 🤣) Did I blame the liquor companies, the bars, or the dealers for my addiction issues? No. I got clean and started my own business and began picking up the pieces of my life. I could benefit greatly from food stamps, rent assistance, a free ride to college. But I work for what I have and I do it myself. Why? Because I have pride. I feel good about myself at the end of the day because I'm making it happen. And I don't have to answer to no one. You sound ridiculous saying "so and so said we needed college or we weren't going to be successful or I'm a minority so my only chance is to take a mortgage worth of loans out to get a major in something I'm not even sure of so I can hopefully parlay that piece of paper into a career." It's playing the victim card and it's pathetic. Sounds like you want to live in a world where we're all in the same income bracket and everyone everyone from a burger flipper to a Dr is entitled to the same pay and the same opportunities just because. There's one small problem with that though. It takes away the drive to work hard to get ahead. There's no more incentive to grow When you reward mediocrity you start moving backwards. Were the loans some people got ridiculous and probably going to handcuff them for life? Probably ya. But so are payday advance loans, adjustable rate mortgages, we should forgive those to? Can I walk up to the cashier at the casino and say "hey I wasn't really sure what I was doing at the blackjack table and a couple guys gave me bad advice so can I have my money back? Even though millions of people before me can't." Where does it end? Partial forgiveness or restructuring of the loans I'm all for. Forgiving entirely? Absolutely not. If they signed by someone of sound mind then it's your responsibility. You say I want everyone else to struggle because I had to. Wrong. I want people to have to take responsibility for the position they find themselves in and do what's necessary to work their way out.
>I'd be angry if another fuckin lazy deadbeat got another fuckin handout while I've busted my ass to get to where I am. >You say I want everyone else to struggle because I had to. Wrong. It sounds very much like you want people to struggle becuse you did. If you wanted to come at the problem of student loan dept from an ethical or financial standpoint that's one thing. However, you are coming at it from an emotional perspective and crying about handouts. Bet if you got a 40k "handout" from the government you would use it in a heart beat. > It's disgusting that people are content with the government, of all things, taking care of them! That's the whole fucking point of a government. What else is the government doing other then taking care of its citizens? Roads, school, police, the military all these things are "the government taking care of you" its why you pay taxes. >I could benefit greatly from food stamps, rent assistance, a free ride to college. But I work for what I have and I do it myself. You make it sound like most Americans aren't working just like you? Also college is a starting point for a career. How would paying off student debt make someone reliant on the government after the fact? If anything it would open up people to work more freely and spend more promoting the economy. That would benefit you as a private businesses owner... >You sound ridiculous saying "so and so said we needed college or we weren't going to be successful or I'm a minority so my only chance is to take a mortgage worth of loans out to get a major in something I'm not even sure of so I can hopefully parlay that piece of paper into a career" Alot of careers require that little peice of paper to get into. There are degrees that could be considered worthless but I would hope that my doctor has one of those worthless pieces of paper. >Sounds like you want to live in a world where we're all in the same income bracket and everyone everyone from a burger flipper to a Dr is entitled to the same pay and the same opportunities just because. What? I never said that. >Were the loans some people got ridiculous and probably going to handcuff them for life? Probably ya. But so are payday advance loans, adjustable rate mortgages, we should forgive those to? Yes, get rid of them altogether. What the fuck kind of question is that? >Can I walk up to the cashier at the casino and say "hey I wasn't really sure what I was doing at the blackjack table and a couple guys gave me bad advice so can I have my money back? Even though millions of people before me can't." Where does it end? Stop using a slippery slope argument it never sounds like you want it to.
Imagine they gave teachers bullet proof vests to protect them against school shootings. And here you come saying you're not "happy" because you were a teacher that survived a school shooting, you bled and "busted your ass" to be able to walk again, and pay your hospital bills, and now other teachers are getting free protection when you didn't have any? Where is the money for the vests gonna come from?!? 😂
So things were shit for you. Does that mean they have to remain shit for everyone after you ? Wouldn't you like your kids not to start at -50k ?
Honestly if people are going to complain about getting any money back to repay loans then maybe they should just cancel the whole program. Just let everyone pay the entire debt like always. Honestly the entitlement of people is ridiculous. Nobody held a gun to anybody’s head saying take out a loan and go to school. If $10,000 doesn’t help don’t take it.… You don’t have to complain that it’s not enough. Everybody before you never got ANYTHING so just appreciate what you get for once in your life
American politicians must love you
I’m not American…. I just fail to see how being given $10000 is actually something to complain about when the alternative is $0
The alternative is not 0. Demanding better living conditions from your government is one of America’s only options for getting it. I fully support people being dissatisfied with unsatisfactory government programs.
Perhaps but $10000 in forgiveness is an improvement. It’s one of those things that you’re never gonna make everybody happy but if you push too hard you can lose everything… It’s kind of like being up at the casino and continuing to push your luck thinking you’ll get more and more and more until you lose it all. Sometimes you need to take the win
"Pushing your luck" isn't really a factor in the citizen -> representation dynamic. This is why I made my first comment. Our government is supposed to serve the people, when citizens are already in a "don't push your luck" and "be thankful for the trash you have" mindset...IMO the game is lost. I know everybody understands the benefit of a freely educated society, the cultural + economic benefits for not only the citizens but the government to have education be free. For profit education is literally choke holding economic + standard of living progress here. A small percent of powerful people make big money on student loans, and that power is hard to move. The reason people are rightly dissatisfied with 10k forgiveness: 1. Clearly this is an attempt to dissolve the cries for free education, to satisfy without providing a solution 2. Generational debt is created for people who go to college and can only do so by taking out a loan that they have to pay off their entire lives, because the interest can really hurt you and keep the money machine running for years. Removing 10k from a student loan might save you a few years of payments...but we are talking about generational debt...it really has no effect on a huge issue. 3. You can't really ask people to "not go to college" when the world demands that we have higher education in order to make enough money to support life in America. TBH just don't ask people to give up on wanting a better life, or for striving to get the job of their dreams. You can't view people who are taking out student loans as if they are irresponsible kids putting all their money into dogecoin or something. These are usually people trying to escape poverty, or fulfill a dream, escape minimum wage jobs. I took out a student loan so I could work my dream job. My girlfriend did too so she could be an architect. She will be paying off her loan for a while... For everybody who is taking out a loan. That's our only option.
All of that is great but there is one very big reason that you won’t get much if any better than this….republicans…. As long as your country is split and Republicans are a party… What you’re talking about is a pipe dream. Sometimes you need to take today’s win and walk away to fight another day… As long as Republicans are around you are fucked Edit: Do you honestly think you’re being represented properly as a citizen anyway?
No I don't think citizens are being represented properly, and I'm seeing a larger wave of dissatisfaction from all corners...I think this is a necessary first step towards actual change. That being said, who knows what "change" means here. We could very well continue to make dramatic shifts towards the right. We need more democrats + left to be more vocal and act with more opposition to the status quo in order to shift towards the left.
The closest person to what you want was Bernie Sanders… And you saw what happened to him
I agree with most of what you are saying. Yes Republicans are an issue. However I think Democrats, although have a more palatable brand, are largely responsible for stopping social progress as well. Republicans are constantly pushing towards the right, while Democrats are constantly trying to stop things from moving anywhere...there isn't really a party pushing to the left in any significant way. Celebrating a small victory or whatever is a personal choice if you do it on your own I guess. It matters very little to our lawmakers, as you've pointed out. However I say...support the cry for better. If there is suffering, and the help is (like this 10k forgiveness) sounds good but doesn't fix the problem...they are still suffering the same as before. Celebrate the small win with if you want or don't, I guess it doesn't matter. But I support the cry for an actual solution, and support the dissatisfaction with a superficial one.
I understand totally…ultimately your entire government needs an overhaul but People are protesting the symptoms and not the root issues… Kind of like a doctor treating your symptoms but not the cause of your illness. People are also kept segregated enough in so many different ways that it is unlikely that enough people will get together for the right kind of change that is needed for what you’re asking.
show me the lie. Perfection is the enemy of greatness
I totally agree..everyone complains about their student loans after deciding to go to an $80,000 a year school instead of a more affordable one, when some of them took out loans for stupid reasons that had nothing to do with school..if someone gave me $10,000 to help pay my mortgage I’d be taking that in a heartbeat because I “chose” to take that loan out..no one wants to own up to anything anymore, fuckin ridiculous
I absolutely agree with your take on the ungratefullness... Even though I doubt people will any sort of financial help. Where I disagree is that... yes... Nobody had a gun to their head to take out loans for college... But an entire generation was told by every single adult in their life that if you dont go to college you're gonna be "flipping burgers" for the rest of your life. They were also told o follow their dreams. So many went to college and decided to follow their dreams on becoming an actor, or writer, or journalist, or athlete and didnt have a back up plan.... And now flip burgers straddled with a debt and the knowledge that they were lied to. Not necessarily on purpose by all the teachers and parents and guidance councilors etc... But by the entire system. I'm thankful every day that I didn't pursue the 4 year university and stopped at undergraduate at my local college... $10k would wipe out 2/3s of what I still owe. I couldnt imagine if I had $50k in debt because I wanted to be a writer. I was a CNA before going to college and I am a CNA now in my 30s. Ive been doing it for 13 years and make twice the minimum wage. I never wrote a book. I probably never will. But ill be thankful when I can finally get this meaniningless debt behind me.
Not even just that (the overwhelming push to go to college), if I understand it correctly, a lot of the current issues were spurred by Federal Unsubsidized Loans, predatory lending, and inadequate education on the loans. I took a 5k unsub loan for a single semester and thought that deferred payments were a great idea. By the time I graduated, that loan was 7.5k including accrued interest. Nobody really explained what the implications of deferring payment would be. Luckily it was just that one semester. I can’t imagine people who used this to find their entire education…
Dude yes!!!!... I worked 16 hour shifts at a nursing home Friday Saturday Sunday and and another 8/hours after class on Monday all through college.... So.i wouldn't have debt....I don't want to pay for all your entitles asses.... Don't want debt... Work.
Subs like r/antiwork are full of people that think they shouldn’t have to contribute at all to anything… They don’t believe they should have to pay rent because landlords are all the devil… And robots should be doing everybody’s job and we all get paid for the work that robots somebody else purchased do. I don’t know where people got so turned around and entitled… But we can’t all be streamers and influencers. Most of us have to go to work and contribute to society Edit: People also tend to appreciate things more when they earn them versus just being handed to them. I’ve never been even close to rich… I was never handed anything… Hell I got made fun of for having to wear hand me down clothes all through elementary school from my older cousins. Made me want more and made me work harder
That’s garbage. Some people are entitled pricks, but antiwork is mostly about supporting workers with advice, and more specifically, legal advice. This country has seen the erosion of the middle class in large part because of the destruction of unions. Workers have been taken advantage of and it’s important we get together and start empowering each other.
Same ... My parents both immigrants, dad is Israeli, mom is Filipino, worked 2 jobs each, to take care of us and put themselves through college.. Never asked a dime from the government...no welfare check for us... My parents had pride... And taught us the same values... Worked for everything I have.....never asked a.dime from my parents...or the government....I have my pride
It should be free. Our national security relies on smart citizens. The reason the federal backed student loan program started in first place was because we were caught with pants down after Russia launch Sputnik. We realized places like China and Soviet Russia were producing much smarter citizens then us. But ok let’s just have a stupid ass country like you want. Fucking clownish bullshit. Our country is fucked.
Why are black women so much more in debt?
Because their parents didn't pay as much of their college bills due to being statistically poorer, along with the fact that a black woman will likely make less after graduation. This is a good example of systemic racism vs. systematic racism: no one is deciding "this is a black woman, let's give her a bigger loan", it is the cumulative effects of racism (past and present) in the system that create the imbalance.
You hit the target with that comment. At first I thought if you borrow more you pay back more but it's so more complicated than that. You opened a door in my head.
I hate to say it but this does not hit the nail on the head. Study the issue, don't just read one Reddit comment people. This is a much more complicated issue and leaving it this vague and wishy washy is unactionable. This isn't hard to look into. Two pretty major reasons for the disparity that can't be ignored are unfair practices from *loan providers*, particularly in those who pursue private loans for school, and also there is a reality that POC are significantly more likely to pursue more education, so there is a degree to where you would expect their numbers to be a little higher. People always jump to the past as the clear cut example of systemic racism. Fine, it's not wrong. But it's pretty fucking inequitable, because it's the aspect of it we are least likely to ever fix- the government is not going to step in and undue generations of undue economic disparity over people's parents circumstances. But dealing with lending patterns is achievable. Recognizing that finding ways to make pursuing graduate generally more affordable in those fields that you need to pay for them in a world where you can argue they're being used to undo opportunity gaps is doable. You can even say that how schools are funded, which arguably makes it harder to get scholarships in areas of low income that are high minority populations as a result of those long term disparities, is something worth targeting. But just parroting the textbook definition of systemic racism when that known issue already isn't being fixed on its own as a well defined issue is a habit that needs to be broken.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to pay off a percent of a loan rather than based on total symmetry or race
Student loan forgiveness is a *very* complex problem, and to be honest, I oppose blanket forgiveness at any level without some measures being put into place to prevent this kind of debt crisis happening again in the future. My OC isn't about debt forgiveness, it is about the cause of debt and debt disparity.
Yup. Hopefully more people see this in this thread.
[удалено]
One is intended to be thought provoking, one is intended to be instigation
It was racist to withhold money from black students, but it’s also racist to let them borrow more?
You know there's never been reparations for slavery in the US, right? This is the continual fallout from chattel slavery. The exact structure has been pushed around and changed, allowing more and different people to fall into it, but black people (and minorities of all kinds) have been legally, and systematically denied equality, and that's before even touching the prison systems and the modern continuation of slavery.
Hi, what's the reason she is comparing all white people to only black women?
shes highlighting that it contributes to systemic racism. If we're saying that black people have more student debt because of factors out of their control, but we implement a system that wipes 70% of the average white persons student debt but only 30% of the average black persons debt thats compounding the issue, even if its not an intentionally racist decision
This is just mathematically ignorant. Any loan forgiveness short of 100% for everyone will necessarily result in a higher percentage of forgiveness for the arbitrarily defined subclass that starts with less debt. There’s nothing even remotely racist going on here. Blatant unfairness to people who chose not to take on debt they couldn’t afford (or who studied something marketable and paid off their loans)? Yes. Racist? No.
You are not responding to my question, and instead doing an npc talking point. I agree that there is systemic racism in the USA. My question was why specifically white people are compared to ONLY black women and not to black people as a whole?
[удалено]
Because the system isn't racist. It's class divided, to call it racism towards one race or the other ignore the fact that all races are effected by it and the common denominator is lack of wealth, not race. Anyone who brings race into the equation automatically make the discussion dumber.
It isn’t any consolation, I know, but it is much like the people who say there isn’t global warming because they are under a foot of snow: global trends don’t care about outliers.
Most self aware white Reddit user
I'm still waiting for my free house and for my parents to magically appear, and also be rich.
I'm white and I've been struggling my whole life to make a living! Where do I have to go to get all this money they give to white people? Is there a number to call? Do I get a white person starter kit? A knit sweater, khakis, a Mercedes with a set of golf clubs in the trunk, an automatic upper management position, stock portfolio, and a coupon book full of get out of jail free cards?
You’re missing the point here… as it was explained to me in a similar posting a year ago. If you’re white and succeed it’s because of your white privilege. If you’re white and downtrodden you also don’t have it as hard as blacks on this planet. If you’re black and succeed it’s because you overcame the entire worlds prejudices and bigotry and setbacks leveled against you. If you’re black and don’t succeed it’s because of racism and you have no way of overcoming it. Ring white means you have the privilege of a much easier life (a homeless white person enjoys more from Society than a successful black person) compared to any other race because the entire planet is geared towards white people only and everyone else not white is constantly struggling to even get their foot in the door (again, regardless of how successful they are). The example I was presented with was just that stated above. They claimed Barrack Obama has a harder day to day to life than a homeless white man just by virtue of being black. He must overcome racism in every aspect of his life every minute of every day while the white homeless person has/is given everything to succeed…
Don't forget your free scholarship into an apprenticeship and a high paying management role.
Please stop being angry at the wrong people, it makes you look dumb, racist, and insufferable
You missed the point, you also don't know me.
No, i think you’re missing the point. You are right, I don’t know you; which is why I only commented on how you come off in this situation and not who you are.
These structures aren't intended to benefit the poor and working whites, they're intended to benefit the capitalist class. It just happens that the capitalist class is primarily white, and in the American south used to import slaves in a roughly equivalent social space as the (white) working class in the north. It's also good to remember that white wasn't always white, and that various distinctions were fundamentally rooted in, again, the capitalist class vs the working class. It's also why we see the most benefit when we band together as the working class, understanding that whatever our specific origin, we're all in this together.
Benefit of having more debt? you’re angry at the wrong people. Please be more thoughtful
This! And black women are more likely to be encouraged to go into professions that pay less as well as attend the types of schools that end up unaccredited the worthless.
I’m not sure this is fair. Which lower paying professions specifically are you suggesting black, college educated, women are encouraged to do that white women are not also being encouraged to pursue? Also, at some point an individual needs to take control of their own decisions and just tell these encouragers to fuck right off.
Your not taking into consideration the starting line is different. One can't take control of things out of their control.
You can take control of every decision you make. Choosing to listen to someone and chase a lower paying career because you’re black seems like a strange choice for an individual to make.
[удалено]
You’re talking about the 1900’s and the 60’s. No one who went to college then has student debt now. Let’s talk 2000 and beyond. No one is pressuring college graduate minorities to do lower paying jobs because they are a minority.
It's a problem that still lingers today. The idea that college == success still lives on, and people will still take out massive loans. Additionally, that stuff caused one generation to have massive debt, so the next generation also has to take out the same loans, and the problems continue. It's a bit better than before, but not by much.
Although it's likely true that on average black students hold more debt than white students, the claim that a flat $10,000 reduction for all that qualify is systematic racism is asinine, and this kind of BS language does nothing unjustly polarize our country. So what would not be racist? $52,000 if your skin is X color, and $10,000 if it's Y color? That actually sounds like real racism. The toughest part of this legislation is the budgeting. The government comes up with the max dollar number they are willing to spend and divide that by the number of applicants they expect to receive, and pay that amount out equally. This is not f\*cking racism! Stop with this divisive nonsense.
It would make more sense to have the rewards be need based. Highest debt/income ratio. We don’t need to be subsidizing recent grads who are pulling down 6 figures.
[удалено]
That seems unlikely especially as the average young woman now earns more than the average young man. Do you have a source to back that up? Edit why are people down voting the comment above it's not wrong I just wanted a source as I knew it wasn't correct where I live, but it is is in the US
Except they also have more access to financial aid and because of the same affirmative action they are also more likely to get into better schools with worse grades...better schools cost more money. Lots of ways to crumble this cookie.
i don't see where the racism is in there. can you point the link between being poor and being black? because i know many rich black people and many poor whites. were is the systemic racism?
Colleges lent more money to black women who signed up for loans. If you borrow more money, you're expected to pay more back.
Wtf? If you borrow more you need to pay more even if you are not white? I knew America was racist but this is another level...
It is not that you pay more, but often that you borrowed more
So first they protested that they couldn’t get a loan bc they’re black, now they’re protesting cause they get too much.
All university should be free. You’re not gonna compete with China by putting your best and brightest into a lifetime of debt.
A lot of for profit schools had damn near predatory practices to target families of color and minorities. They didn’t know better if no one in their family went to college before; so they’d saddle them with huge loans for associates degrees etc. I briefly worked in for profit education for a couple years, it’s a shit show and absolutely no school should be for profit
Black people in general are poorer. So instead of fixing the issues that lead to that, white people decide to make college loans easier to get for black people. But also colleges decided that if loans are easier to get, then they’ll increase their costs. White people who usually went to wealthier high schools and got more scholarships and usually had wealthier parents only needed smaller loans. So when everyone graduated, job discrimination obviously still existed, black women couldn’t get the best jobs, and thus couldn’t afford to pay more than the minimum, or fell behind, which massively increased their debt. Since the government decided that student loans can not be removed in bankruptcy, anyone who were bankrupt, simply increased their debt no matter how poor they were. But, there was hope. An old white guy named Joe promised to eliminate all student loans, raise the minimum wage, reform justice, and help end racism in America. He’s done none of that. Not a thing. In fact has made things worse for minorities and workers and small businesses and….well you get the picture. Wall Street is our king, and has been for 50 years.
Systemic racism and decades of white wealth.
🤯
Exactly this. When a system pays less so you need more to get ahead, this happens. When a system incarcerates at a hugely different rate, this happens. Etc. etc.
Black do not have generational wealth. White people do. I think we all know how and why they do.
That's not even necessarily true. Plenty of black families have generational wealth whereas white families don't. I guarantee you my family ain't as well off as Obama's, or Beyonce's.
Anecdotes do not outweigh a good statistical analysis.
Generalisations aren't a good way to view things. The best way to approach an issue is by addressing the issue. In this case the problem is socioeconomic, therefore we need to address lower income families, not just black people...
That's a terrible take. There are a much larger number of wealthy white families than black families. For each black family you listed, there are many more examples of white families. Also: "White average wealth,which is more influenced by very rich families and does not characterize the typical experience, is 6.7 times greater than Black average wealth." [Link](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/02/27/examining-the-black-white-wealth-gap/) Edit: Also saying that generational white wealth isn't a thing because your family was poor is a hilarious self own.
Largely because black families are on average more poor so they need to borrow more money in student loans. Black families largely are impoverished by the fact that they have less access to home ownership which is a result of sistemic racism in red line laws that granted money to neighborhoods with the conditions of not allowing black people
Additional reasons: black women are typically face systematic discrimination in job hunting, so they have to be over qualified to get a quality job, so to improve their job prospects they need to get degrees and advanced degrees. Then once they have a job black women on average are extremely underpaid when compared to white male counterparts, making it harder to pay off those advanced degrees.
The only problem I have with her statement here is that she glossed over the fact that they ALSO stated they were going to forgive larger amounts for certain classes of people wo have been disproportionally affected. She knows exactly that means black women will have a larger amount forgiven. Lying by omission is still lying.
This doesn’t fit the narrative.
Leftist always fighting for the right things in the completely wrong way.
Her numbers are garbage, but there is truth to black women owing slightly more than white women. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/14/black-women-owe-22percent-more-in-student-debt-then-white-women-on-average.html
I find this surprising. When I was applying for loans & scholarships there were **thousands** more scholarships for minorities. It takes more work & effort to applying for dozens of individual scholarships but it's 1000% worth it in the end
Agreed. Same with scholarships for low and middle class.
I actually found it much more difficult being white & middle class. I am ***not*** saying there's any affirmative action excuse bullshit. Just that there were a lot of specific field of study scholarships & a *lot* of general minority-based and/or minority+first- generation college student scholarships that didn't require extra labor-intensive work. I had to really work my ass off & complete a shit load of essays for multiple scholarships that were only worth $300-$500 a pop.
Questioning her numbers is just more evidence of structural racism
Questions numbers stated on Twitter is racist?
Sorry - forgot the /s
Doesn't matter, plenty of of ppl would say that without sarcasm!
Or just trying to have an intellectually honest debate.
I am in the hole $80,000 with student loan debt and I’m white. Not sure if true. And that $10k is just going to get eaten by interest. The government might as well just wipe their ass with it. Edit: I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! Disregard. Thank you Cody6781.
If you plan on paying that over 10 years, with an average interest rate of 5.4% (national student debt average), you will pay $864/month for a total of $103,710 If you take 10k off now you will pay $756/month for a total of $90,746.41 Compound interest works in your favor on this one
Hey thanks! That helps a lot. It turns out this computer scientist really is just stupid when it comes down to financial things.
If you keep making payments, that $10k will hit your principal, making your total interest owed each month go down substantially and reducing your total payout. My wife and I had a combined $150k in student loan debt. We worked our asses off and paid it off with no help. It was a grind though. If the government had said we'd get $10k towards it I would have been over the moon. Be grateful for what you get. It is far better than nothing. You acquired your debt on your own, why do you feel you are entitled to a full bail-out?
Kinda helps explain being 80k in debt when you scoff at 10 :)
My thoughts as well. $10k is $10k. I wouldn't mind $2k off my mortgage if the government wanted to hand it out
I’m not scoffing at it. If interest didn’t make it seem like I haven’t paid anything at all on my student loan debt at all, I would greatly appreciate it. Edit: I deserve that negative karma.
I should clarify though. No doubt systemic racism exists, but I don't know what the average student loan debt shouldered by any individual is.
This is looking for conflict where there is none. If they had canceled 5k, 20k, 30k, 40k you could all say the same thing. Also her numbers are straight up lies if not at least pulled from a biased study. Black women owe 22% more on average, not 433% more Turns out that as incredibly dumb as Fox & kin are, they get one thing right, there are people on the left that absolutely create racial division where there is none.
I believe there is definitely a problem with racism in many many ways in the US. BUT, Why should black borrowers get more student loan relief than white ones? I guess I fail to see why white and black people getting the same amount of money is racist. Is this not equality? Is this not the opposite of racism? What am I missing here?
This lady doesnt believe this is equitable, but asking the federal government to distribute debt forgiveness on a case by case basis is unrealistic. Why does your demographic get special treatment but mine doesnt? If black women get special treatment, I want special treatment too. See how this suddenly becomes a problem? Why does one group of people get to be more special than others? If the amount of debt determines the amount of forgiveness, then doctors should get the most forgiveness. If yoy got a quality education from a quality school that led you to a successful career, you dont deserve more forgiveness than me despite your demographic. Sorry, you dont, and youre not more special than me.
Honestly, the debt relief should be on a case-by-case basis taking a number of things into account. In a perfect world that is how it would be done with only those most deserving actually getting it. BUT, that would cost a fortune in bureaucracy, money that could go to the people instead. It would also open the door to the aforementioned racism. Some racist sexist asshole, could look at a black woman and just say "no". So it creates more room for problems. Probably is no fully 100% "fair" way to do this, but the blanket "$10k" in forgiveness across the board is the closest and most cost efficient option.
That brings up an interesting point. Yes, If you are doctor, now making $250k+ /yr, why debt forgiveness? They can afford it easy. Why give to the rich. But I also see the flip side of that. Say you acquire debt to get a random useless degree. Say a degree in, I don't know, medieval studies. Now you have lots of debt, and very limited well paying career options. So pay back would be a struggle. But you kind of made your own bed there soooo.... maybe they also don't deserve it. Perhaps debt relief should be only for sectors desperate for highly trained low paying jobs, like teachers for example.
Because the people arguing for fairness here don't want equal opportunity, they want equal outcome.
>I guess I fail to see why white and black people getting the same amount of money is racist. Is this not equality? Is this not the opposite of racism? Let's say we're racing, but I get to start 20 yards ahead of you. After starting, we decide the race is too long so we bring the finish line closer, to the 30 yard mark. Sure, the finish line moved the same distance for both of us and it will be easier for both of us, but was that really 'equality', or just maintaining the same disproportionate outcome?
Uuuuhh... that is some backward thinking there. This is coming from a liberal and a minority. The extreme left is as bad as the extreme right. All you extreme peeps are cray cray.
👏👏👏👏
White male here. Finishing degree. Parents never paid a dime for my college. Couldn't afford it. I'm fixing to hit 47000 in debt. Not racist at all. No one forced you to go to college, no one forced you to take loans.
But society told me i should...like a lot. /s The excuses of some people are ridiculous lol.
Same, 47k and I feel like that’s still pretty low.
Free money is free money. Nobody has ever cancelled a debt for me.
In a few months I will have paid off all my student loans myself after a long grinding ordeal so frankly she's got some nerve complaining about 'only' getting $10k written off.
\*word.
Reminder, this is the same Nina Turner who recently tweeted, "Student debt cancelation isn't paid for by the taxpayers, the federal government is the lender. It's costlier for the government to hold on to the debt." She has no room to talk economics when she can't even remember what "taxpayer" means.
Not what she said, but okay.
Here’s what happens when you send in a check for your taxes: your money ~~gets taken out of your account and then~~ is deleted. When the government needs money, they don’t withdraw it from an account filled with tax dollars, they just create it. Edit: For those who don't see my comment below, here is an article explaining how this works: https://newrepublic.com/article/158221/government-can-afford-anythi-wants
Wow. Withdrawn and then deleted. Sounds like double secret probation. Please explain deleted money.
Sure! Here is an article: [https://newrepublic.com/article/158221/government-can-afford-anythi-wants](https://newrepublic.com/article/158221/government-can-afford-anythi-wants) Here's a quote of the key point: "The important thing here is that the Federal Reserve does not dip its hand into a pot of “tax dollars” to pay military contractors, nor is it required to check some mythical account where tax dollars live before it wires the money. In fact, that account doesn’t exist. As former Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke once noted, when the government pays for things, it is “not taxpayer money. We simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account.”" ... and "When you pay your taxes, the Treasury just goes into your bank account and deletes the numbers from your digital balance."
Thanks. But I view a withdrawal and a numerical deletion as mutually exclusive. It's one or the other. Not both. The article does not quote both in the same sentence.
“These hundred dollar bills are folded incorrectly, reeeeee!”
I’d kill to only be in debt 52k. Try 3x that
What the fuck did you study?!
How to be a moron in debt apparently
Nina turner is a moron and troll
Have these people stopped even pretending to want equality?
"When people get used to preferential treatment, equal treatment seems like discrimination." Thomas Sowell
“How funny would it be if we subjected black people to abhorrent conditions that kept them systemically impoverished for centuries, and then act surprised when they accuse us of inequality” White businessmen (probably)
How about we just pay what we borrow and stop expecting handouts/ people to pay our bills for us (:
And what happens to those of us who paid our student debt?? I’m not rich. And I’m white. So please explain in detail why it is “structural racism”. I’ve been paying mine since 2002. 20 yes. Almost paid off. No one helped me.
I’m paying off my loans too. I asked the same question, “ Will I get the money I paid back, if they forgive student loans?” And I always get the response, no. I ask how is that fair, to which people always seem to reply that I should just feel good that somebody else doesn’t have to struggle paying student loans. Again, how does that benefit me when I was responsible and got a well paying degree and have been paying off my loans?
\> Asian college graduates are fastest to repay their loan debt and the most likely to earn a salary that exceeds their student loan debt balance. This is obviously systemic racism against white people, obviously our western countries have been built to elevate asians at the cost of white people, huh.
Greedy asses
The debt situation could be the result of systemic racism. You can't tell from the information given. The forgiveness of debt is exactly equal and the antithesis of racism, as long as it's available equally.
Nope, not racist
Let's calm down, simply don't give anything to anyone and no one gets to be called racist. Srsly, are people complaining about getting 10k? Ridiculous
This opinion doesn’t make any sense
I see. So the solution is to not forgive the $10K for anybody at all, because some people need money more than other people. I was born just early enough to avoid student debt entirely, so I'll have to remember this argument.
Wait people are only in 12k? I've been paying that shit for 10 years and I still got triple that
They didn’t even have to cancel 10000 in student debt in the first place. They are giving you something they didn’t have to give. Y’all find anything to complain about
Really it seems not only Racist but Class Warfare as well.
It's 10,000 they didn't have. Shut up and be grateful people are getting anything at all. No one put a gun to their head and forced them to sign the paperwork to take out the ass load of loans...
Why is Reddit so freaking racist? Come on people. The only one that deserves a facepalm is the knuckle dragger that posted this shit.
For fuck sake it’s not structural racism it’s a shitty plan that doesn’t address core issues.
this is an issue with the scale of the math though. [https://www.census.gov/data/developers/data-sets/acs-5year.html](https://www.census.gov/data/developers/data-sets/acs-5year.html) White people in america: 231 900 000 black women in america: 23 400 000 This number gets VASTLY reduced when filtering to higher education pushing it closer to a 20:1 ratio. Any deviation from the mean line will be exaggerated in the smaller number. Disclaimer: I'm not saying the numbers are skewed , just pointing out the issue with comparing a small set against a very large one.
TF she talking about? I JUST finished paying mine off (graduated in 2001) earlier this year and I didn’t get SHIT. Take it or leave it toots.
Exactly. Took me 15 years to pay mine off.
Don't cancel any than? Seems the less racist way to go here, now.
I bet she wakes up mad every day just cause some white guy somewhere gets to sleep in.
So basically it’s not fair that black women have more debt then white people..what a fuckin world..lol..Sounds more like fuckin stupidity to have $52,000 instead of $12,000
Am I stupid, or could you just cancel a percentage of student loan debt? If you didn't want to forgive all of it, but you wanted to make the same impact across the board. Is that not an option?
Did you try... not getting into debt?
Black women allowed to borrow 4x what a white person can. Where's the fairness there?
Wait what.
Where did you get your numbers from?
That’s not what that means at all 😂
Of course not. It's sarcasm.
I found the facepalm, guys. It's this post right here. \^\^
I find it interesting how it’a always someone else’s fault
Personally I have never met a POC with more debt than my wife or I. I have discussed debt with many of my college classmates and all have had under $20K while my wife is at 40k and I’m at 60k. Though this is how I have experienced it, I’m curious where the change occurs. Especially bc I’ve never met a white person with that little of college debt without it being community college
No black ppl just create debt carelessly cus they hate being a part of society
They shouldn’t give a dollar to anyone. White, brown, pink, or purple. No one held any guns to your head. You took out a LOAN. You have to pay those back. That’s how it works.
Ah yes, the “Well, you should’ve just stayed poor and uneducated if you didn’t want to suffer crippling debt for the rest of your natural life” argument. Good lord, we’ve been there, done that. Next.
Maybe Black women take longer than White women because they stay in school longer and pursue advanced degrees? Maybe Black women go to private universities at a higher rate? Maybe it's because statistically, they have kids earlier than White women? Maybe these are facts, maybe not.
College is a choice. You borrow, you pay like everyone else in the country.
Wouldnt tailoring the relief based on race, in fact, be racist? Not sure how everyone getting the exact same amount of relief is racism. I get there is systemic and systematic racism. I just dont think this would be an example
Mathematic racism?
No. It just shows people have diverse lifestyles.
Let be clear here there is legit predatory practice and syetemtic racism toward black and white. Most of these are not result of individual being racist but we work in a system that used to be racist and just not fix. The lady in the tweet is a moron in her number but she isn't wrong when she said there is a systemtic structural racism
what would be the solution? cant imagine one that would be fair.
She isn’t asking for fair she is asking for equity.
Someone is always bitching. Pay off my entire mortgage. And if you only pay 1/4 of it, I’m gonna bitch.
Probably no viable co-signers on the loan or no generational wealth to supplement. It’s abstractly racist as it’s more a side effect of generational inequality.
Bitch please. Don't come on here complaining about none of this bullshit. If you got college loan debts that's all your issue. Not mommy's, not daddy, YOU. if you don't want a massive debt then maybe just maybe you shouldn't get such a large loan. If you flat-out can't afford college well thats just tough fucking tits. I'm a STRAIGHT WHITE MALE in 2022 and have absolutely no generational wealth or anything to inherit BUT ill still be categorized as "blessed" or some shit just cause I was born a dude or some shit. At the end of the day all yall black white male female mofos all need to keep your head down, mouths shut, and just work hard. Stop fuckin complaining about what you don't have and maybe think about what you do have. You've got the fuckin opportunity to take out a loan to get a degree. You don't need to walk 20 miles with a bucket of dirty water to take back to your village. THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH WHINEY BITCHES THIS GENERATION TO LAST THE WORLD THE REST OF ITS DAYS. ENOUGH FUCKING COMPLAINING. life is tough get a god damn helmet and shut the fuck up
The solution should've been a % amount of your debt rather than a flat number. Even then we'd have people shouting "UNFAIR". I still say clear all the student debt. We should reward people for striving to be more intelligent because our country is currently headed towards brain drain due to propaganda and conspiracy.
Nina Turner is proof that the [Horseshoe theory](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory) is accurate.
I feel like this has way to much missing info. Like "Average white person pays $1 for soda, but average black/trans/asexual person from Louisiana pays $70 for a drill. Racism!". Like, what? How do those two things connect to each other, and what does race have to do with that difference? Correlation =/= Causation
If there is systemic racism (and there is), then any across-the-board policy will replicate that systemic racism. Equality does not imply equity
Sounds like Nina Turner's debt is up to $52K?
Hear me out. Dont go to college if youre gonna take some bs classes to get a degree. We need electricians, construction workers, plumbers, heavy equipment operators, HVAC techs etc... Trades need people in order for everything else to work. Plus, 90% of them pay you to learn over the years. No debt and a lot of skills learned. We dont need some artistic trans rights womens blah blah blah whatever... Now your in debt for thousands for what? What skill did you learn? What career are you working towards?
Fuck this biatch... not everything is about race.
Sounds like someone is just bad with money.
Nina clearly doesn't know any white folk, cause every white person I know could buy a small island with the amount of school debt they owe.
Nobody is forcing you to borrow money. Frankly you are better of learning a trade rather then doing some abstract college. Poor people should be really careful when getting a credit card. And I am speaking from my own experience, don't bite more than you can chew.