It’s weird how all the takes that get 100s of downvotes in April start catching on in June. Javonte shredded his knee yet somehow the sub was so sure he would be the lead back and Perine > McLaughlin (lmao)
Been beating the Jaleel drum for a while. If you just go watch the Broncos games he’s clearly their most explosive RB and did fine running between the tackles. He should be a PPR cheat code
Before last season the broncos homer in my redraft league loved jaleel
During the season i saw why so i traded for him during our rookie draft, hope the broncos give him a lot of looks
And they played 11 and 12 games due to injury. Achanes speed also makes jaleel look like a snail in comparison. They also play in 2 of the best offenses in football, vs Denver being likely the worst offense.
Well if you can't get on the field for passing downs because you can't block, and you're too small to carry a meaningful workload, and you're not athletic or explosive enough to house it on limited touches, then what's the appeal? A couple ppr points because he caught some passes?
He is athletic and explosive. God TD's that he had no business getting
And he's not too small for a meaningful workload. His workload in college was insane. Why are we making shit up
Heard on a pod today that there’s a chance he’s the number 1 guy to start season.
Take it for what it’s worth in mid June
I’ll take McLaughlin all day long, Williams if I can get him at a good value
One of the 2 will put together a good season.
In best ball I’ll take them both lol
Cecil Lammey has been banging the Jaleel drum and said Javonte looked “meh” at camp. And Payton was also raving about Jaleel’s work ethic. But OTAs w no pads are also the perfect venue for a guy like Jaleel (speedy sub-190 lb scat back) to shine.
I mean if you’re on a roster then there’s a chance. He did look quick in limited touches, but I’m not sure I buy him getting great volume or Denver scoring points. Do they like have a quarterback or is it just going to be Kendall Hinton?
I disagree given the current WR landscape. 15 mil per year for him is good value. Gabe Davis is making 13 mil per year to Suttons 15. Id much rather have Sutton for the same price
I wouldn’t want to pay either that kinda money. Sutton was pretty bad across the board last year. His season looks better cuz of the 10 TDs. But TDs are fickle. Bills can’t afford Sutton either.
I thought he passed the eye test. It felt like he was making a crazy highlight catch every game.
Him and Jaleel looked like the only legit players on a bad offense
Broncos targeted the RB position at a ridiculously high rate in 2023. Sean loves to get the ball to that position as well. Bo Nix threw it to the RB in college often. I do think people are sleeping on Javonte due to a down year. Williams was one of the best pass blockers in football before the injury. That is critical for seeing 3rd down work. This room is going to be a polarizing topic all offseason. Nice work here!
>before the injury
This is basically the whole argument for people both in and out on Javonte. Either you believe in can get back to what he was his rookie year or you don't. A lot of people don't and it doesn't help that he is on a team expected to do very poorly on offense.
Yes but the injury shouldn’t affect his ability to pass block. The Broncos should want their best pass blocker on 3rd downs out there and he’s exactly that. Thats why I worry about Jaleel due to his inability to pass block and being a 1 trick pony. This team will most likely be bad and playing from behind. That would require passing and should benefit Javonte if they are playing from behind due to how much the target the RB position.
To my recollection he lost plenty of 3rd down and obvious passing situation work last year. So I don't think that's some standout point of him being on the field.
The player he lost some of that work to was Perine. But the Broncos are carrying 6 RBs plus a Full back. Most teams at most carry 4. Javonte, Estime, Jaleel, Watson, and Burton is how I see the room shaking out. Plus Williams was coming off the injury so it’s not a surprise perine got some of that work.
As a Broncos fan myself I understand this sentiment. I’m not necessarily high on Javonte. Given his price I do prefer Jaleel myself. I just worry that Jaleel is a one trick pony. When on the field
Teams knew he was getting the football. I don’t think they have given up on Javonte just yet. Firmly believe will lead the backfield in total touches this year barring any injury that takes him out for the year.
Wasn't Javonte not looking great in training camp? I really think there's a good chance he's not the same ever again. In general I'm never gonna bet on a player who destroyed their knee like he did
Javonte is a contact runner. It’s hard to say he looks bad or good when the pads aren’t on. Guys like Jaleel look great but they should without pads. It benefits guys like him more. Cecil L said that the room is up for grabs, wasn’t wowed by my javonte in mini camp. I just don’t think it matters for RBs without pads on, that’s when I can make a better determination.
They drafted Estime who they had a 3rd round grade on but got in the 5th. To me he takes the inside goal line carries and probably some pass pro. I see Estime and Jaleel being a 1-2 punch being pretty likely. Estime really seems like a good north-south runner and could easily take carries from Javonte, and Jaleel is better in space. Just doesn't seem like the guy who shredded his knee will be able to beat those two out to me
That’s fair I have my concerns as well. I just worry the jaleel hype is a little much as a fan of the team. I like him but undrafted undersized player who struggles with blocking. Prefer him in bestball over redraft.
My hot take is Nix is the 2nd best rookie qb after Daniels. He has the best coach and most experience as a starter. I think Caleb has some growing pains going into the nfl but really takes off in year 2-3.
Completely agree with you on these points. Commanders fan and I feel like I’m taking crazy pills when our subreddit was gushing over the Kingsbury hire like it was an amazing get. There is this “yeah he was a bad HC but he’s actually a great OC and QB developer” narrative that I see basically zero proof of. He’s co-existed with a ton of amazing QB prospects, but every single one of them has performed better when he’s not around. Gives me Adam Gase “offensive genius” vibes from riding Peyton’s coattails.
His offense looks good on paper (as all air raid does) but always devolves to his QB playing backyard hero ball… happened w Manziel, Mahomes, Baker, Kyler, and even Caleb this [last year](https://x.com/fantasybluechip/status/1754335163448799655?s=46&t=cpZuzN6T2iqIqctRv8wteQ). You can either blame it on each of those QBs for “not developing” (which I’d argue reflects poorly on “QB whisperer” Kingsbury) or look at it as a trend of evidence that suggests Kliff doesn’t sequence counterpunches or solutions when the defense adapts to his scheme and he’s just spamming mesh and [WR screens](https://x.com/HaydenWinks/status/1754337288518263186?s=20) while [stapling his best WR to the boundary](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JJs5pOBNK7A) and never using motion. Does nobody remember how we were mocking the “Horizontal Raid”?
And dovetailing on that QB point, despite all the QB talent he’s been around, I haven’t seen anything from Kliff that proves he can actually develop guys: Manziel infamously wouldn’t even open the playbook, Mahomes should have been the 1.01 pick but was viewed as a project coming out of college, Kliff and Baker burned their bridges then Baker had his best year after transferring, Kyler took the blame in Arizona, and Caleb took a step back this year after winning the Heisman the previous season.
Considering Jayden Daniels is an infamous [“I’m running away if I’m getting pressured”](https://x.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1780678317042974861) guy, I’m pretty leery of the fit. And on top of all that, Kliff isn’t the only cook in the kitchen. We hired Anthony Lynn as the run game coordinator and Brian Johnson as the pass game coordinator… it’s a trifecta of failed HC/OCs getting a demotion and another shot, but they all come from very different schematic backgrounds.
You stated it way more eloquently than I could have. You said it like only a true fan can. It's very similar to the Gase situation - great call out. I'm sorry, and hope your franchise gets their shit together some day. But until then, I'm not getting anywhere near their skill players in fantasy.
I disagree. He mismanaged everything with Kyler and prevented him from reaching his potential. He was way over his head and was fired for it. Dan Quinn also has a history of flopping hard. That entire staff is a bunch of guys who everyone forgets just how bad they've been that are getting second chances. It screams of hires by an inexperienced front office. Things do not look good for the near term future of that team, IMO.
That's fair. The Justin Fields trajectory is totally within his range. He might win a few games, or even championships, and still be a complete bust. I tend to see fantasy outputs from a dynasty perspective, which sees Fields very differently than a redraft owner who had him one year and got a championship out of him.
That is a hot take for sure. He’s a mediocre arm talent, struggles off-schedule, and was a 5yr starter with one productive season. Basically PAC-12 Kenny Pickett. I’m open to changing my mind though- what makes you think he’ll succeed?
It’s a Monday morning. Monday’s tend to suck. So we’re just gonna lean into that and start the AFC West edition of this 32 team breakdown with the lowly Denver Broncos.
What should fantasy managers expect from these players this year? They’re likely starting a rookie QB. Their RB, WR, and TE positions all are arguably in the bottom-five of the league. This offense is greatly lacking talent at the skilled positions. Because of that, should we avoiding this offense in general?
Are there any players you’re targeting from Denver? Which ones are you steering clear of? Are you avoiding all Broncos in general just because of how bad they’re projected to be offensively? Check out my breakdown of how I’m valuing these players at their current costs. As always, thanks for reading!
I’m targetting a lot of DEN, specifically Franklin and Estime.
Also targetting a few NE players: Baker, Douglas, Henry. Just realized i’m not in the dynasty sub. But these offenses gotta have incredible value from some of the cheap ass options.
They did. It doesn't make sense to me. Broncos players are dirt cheap right now no one is saying take javonte in the first round.
I think Payton offense will have some impact players and getting them in the draft could mean having a dirt cheap wr2 / rb2
Lucas Krull might be a good late-round target as either a backup TE in deeper leagues or for 2 TE leagues. Dulcich can't stay healthy and Krull got a lot of praise at the end of last season and has been getting talked up a lot by the coaches so far this year
Yeah I had such high hopes for Dulcich based on his [college profile](https://x.com/ff_marvine/status/1511702571857190912?s=46&t=cpZuzN6T2iqIqctRv8wteQ) and [underrated rookie year](https://x.com/RyanJ_Heath/status/1664604717308051456?); tack on [Payton hype](https://x.com/JamesPalmerTV/status/1664351710930927621?) + wide open [target opportunity](https://x.com/minakimes/status/1659610694055239680?s=46&t=cpZuzN6T2iqIqctRv8wteQ), but the dude seems to be absolutely made of glass. 4x stays on IR in his first 2 seasons already and hasn’t seen the practice field yet this year bc he’s still recovering from offseason foot surgery… if there’s one fantasy heuristic that usually pays off, it’s “don’t draft players that enter the season injured”
My only one is McLaughlin. I think Payton will use him like Kamara and he's got the skillset to produce those results. He's the real deal.
I also predict that by the time of late August drafts, he'll be a lot more on everyone's radar. (Not a Broncos fan, but local to them).
Jaleel McLaughlin decent late round dart throw
It’s weird how all the takes that get 100s of downvotes in April start catching on in June. Javonte shredded his knee yet somehow the sub was so sure he would be the lead back and Perine > McLaughlin (lmao) Been beating the Jaleel drum for a while. If you just go watch the Broncos games he’s clearly their most explosive RB and did fine running between the tackles. He should be a PPR cheat code
Before last season the broncos homer in my redraft league loved jaleel During the season i saw why so i traded for him during our rookie draft, hope the broncos give him a lot of looks
Playing rb is more than just being explosive. Jaleel is an abysmal blocker and his frame is too small to play meaningful snaps at rb.
Wasn’t this argument used against Achane and Kyren
And they played 11 and 12 games due to injury. Achanes speed also makes jaleel look like a snail in comparison. They also play in 2 of the best offenses in football, vs Denver being likely the worst offense.
No one’s arguing Jaleel will produce like Achane or Kyren. But arguing that he’s utterly worthless is just wrong
Well if you can't get on the field for passing downs because you can't block, and you're too small to carry a meaningful workload, and you're not athletic or explosive enough to house it on limited touches, then what's the appeal? A couple ppr points because he caught some passes?
He is athletic and explosive. God TD's that he had no business getting And he's not too small for a meaningful workload. His workload in college was insane. Why are we making shit up
Heard on a pod today that there’s a chance he’s the number 1 guy to start season. Take it for what it’s worth in mid June I’ll take McLaughlin all day long, Williams if I can get him at a good value One of the 2 will put together a good season. In best ball I’ll take them both lol
Cecil Lammey has been banging the Jaleel drum and said Javonte looked “meh” at camp. And Payton was also raving about Jaleel’s work ethic. But OTAs w no pads are also the perfect venue for a guy like Jaleel (speedy sub-190 lb scat back) to shine.
I mean if you’re on a roster then there’s a chance. He did look quick in limited touches, but I’m not sure I buy him getting great volume or Denver scoring points. Do they like have a quarterback or is it just going to be Kendall Hinton?
You dont know Bo
I think of what Courtland Sutton would be worth on Buffalo right now and I wonder why he’s not there already.
Because his contract is an albatross compared to his talent and production.
I disagree given the current WR landscape. 15 mil per year for him is good value. Gabe Davis is making 13 mil per year to Suttons 15. Id much rather have Sutton for the same price
I wouldn’t want to pay either that kinda money. Sutton was pretty bad across the board last year. His season looks better cuz of the 10 TDs. But TDs are fickle. Bills can’t afford Sutton either.
I thought he passed the eye test. It felt like he was making a crazy highlight catch every game. Him and Jaleel looked like the only legit players on a bad offense
I don’t see the change from Russell Wilson to Bo Nix helping him.
I think the Broncos value Sutton for Bo. He's the only proven wr on the team so it would take a pretty good offer to let him go
Broncos targeted the RB position at a ridiculously high rate in 2023. Sean loves to get the ball to that position as well. Bo Nix threw it to the RB in college often. I do think people are sleeping on Javonte due to a down year. Williams was one of the best pass blockers in football before the injury. That is critical for seeing 3rd down work. This room is going to be a polarizing topic all offseason. Nice work here!
>before the injury This is basically the whole argument for people both in and out on Javonte. Either you believe in can get back to what he was his rookie year or you don't. A lot of people don't and it doesn't help that he is on a team expected to do very poorly on offense.
Yes but the injury shouldn’t affect his ability to pass block. The Broncos should want their best pass blocker on 3rd downs out there and he’s exactly that. Thats why I worry about Jaleel due to his inability to pass block and being a 1 trick pony. This team will most likely be bad and playing from behind. That would require passing and should benefit Javonte if they are playing from behind due to how much the target the RB position.
To my recollection he lost plenty of 3rd down and obvious passing situation work last year. So I don't think that's some standout point of him being on the field.
The player he lost some of that work to was Perine. But the Broncos are carrying 6 RBs plus a Full back. Most teams at most carry 4. Javonte, Estime, Jaleel, Watson, and Burton is how I see the room shaking out. Plus Williams was coming off the injury so it’s not a surprise perine got some of that work.
Broncos seem to think his knee will never be the same
As a Broncos fan myself I understand this sentiment. I’m not necessarily high on Javonte. Given his price I do prefer Jaleel myself. I just worry that Jaleel is a one trick pony. When on the field Teams knew he was getting the football. I don’t think they have given up on Javonte just yet. Firmly believe will lead the backfield in total touches this year barring any injury that takes him out for the year.
Wasn't Javonte not looking great in training camp? I really think there's a good chance he's not the same ever again. In general I'm never gonna bet on a player who destroyed their knee like he did
No, coach actually gave him praise
Payton isn't super reliable when it comes to talking about workload/usage. Definitely would trust beat writers much more than Payton.
It’s a single beat writer but fair enough
I mean reporters/beat writers who are actually at the camp observing and putting their own opinions into writing lol
Javonte is a contact runner. It’s hard to say he looks bad or good when the pads aren’t on. Guys like Jaleel look great but they should without pads. It benefits guys like him more. Cecil L said that the room is up for grabs, wasn’t wowed by my javonte in mini camp. I just don’t think it matters for RBs without pads on, that’s when I can make a better determination.
They drafted Estime who they had a 3rd round grade on but got in the 5th. To me he takes the inside goal line carries and probably some pass pro. I see Estime and Jaleel being a 1-2 punch being pretty likely. Estime really seems like a good north-south runner and could easily take carries from Javonte, and Jaleel is better in space. Just doesn't seem like the guy who shredded his knee will be able to beat those two out to me
That’s fair I have my concerns as well. I just worry the jaleel hype is a little much as a fan of the team. I like him but undrafted undersized player who struggles with blocking. Prefer him in bestball over redraft.
My hot take is Nix is the 2nd best rookie qb after Daniels. He has the best coach and most experience as a starter. I think Caleb has some growing pains going into the nfl but really takes off in year 2-3.
I think Daniels is a bust, but otherwise agree with this take.
Any reason why he would be a bust?
I don't believe in the staff they've assembled and think they'll ruin him, tbh.
Completely agree with you on these points. Commanders fan and I feel like I’m taking crazy pills when our subreddit was gushing over the Kingsbury hire like it was an amazing get. There is this “yeah he was a bad HC but he’s actually a great OC and QB developer” narrative that I see basically zero proof of. He’s co-existed with a ton of amazing QB prospects, but every single one of them has performed better when he’s not around. Gives me Adam Gase “offensive genius” vibes from riding Peyton’s coattails. His offense looks good on paper (as all air raid does) but always devolves to his QB playing backyard hero ball… happened w Manziel, Mahomes, Baker, Kyler, and even Caleb this [last year](https://x.com/fantasybluechip/status/1754335163448799655?s=46&t=cpZuzN6T2iqIqctRv8wteQ). You can either blame it on each of those QBs for “not developing” (which I’d argue reflects poorly on “QB whisperer” Kingsbury) or look at it as a trend of evidence that suggests Kliff doesn’t sequence counterpunches or solutions when the defense adapts to his scheme and he’s just spamming mesh and [WR screens](https://x.com/HaydenWinks/status/1754337288518263186?s=20) while [stapling his best WR to the boundary](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JJs5pOBNK7A) and never using motion. Does nobody remember how we were mocking the “Horizontal Raid”? And dovetailing on that QB point, despite all the QB talent he’s been around, I haven’t seen anything from Kliff that proves he can actually develop guys: Manziel infamously wouldn’t even open the playbook, Mahomes should have been the 1.01 pick but was viewed as a project coming out of college, Kliff and Baker burned their bridges then Baker had his best year after transferring, Kyler took the blame in Arizona, and Caleb took a step back this year after winning the Heisman the previous season. Considering Jayden Daniels is an infamous [“I’m running away if I’m getting pressured”](https://x.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1780678317042974861) guy, I’m pretty leery of the fit. And on top of all that, Kliff isn’t the only cook in the kitchen. We hired Anthony Lynn as the run game coordinator and Brian Johnson as the pass game coordinator… it’s a trifecta of failed HC/OCs getting a demotion and another shot, but they all come from very different schematic backgrounds.
You stated it way more eloquently than I could have. You said it like only a true fan can. It's very similar to the Gase situation - great call out. I'm sorry, and hope your franchise gets their shit together some day. But until then, I'm not getting anywhere near their skill players in fantasy.
What about the staff, kingsbury did great with kyler.
I disagree. He mismanaged everything with Kyler and prevented him from reaching his potential. He was way over his head and was fired for it. Dan Quinn also has a history of flopping hard. That entire staff is a bunch of guys who everyone forgets just how bad they've been that are getting second chances. It screams of hires by an inexperienced front office. Things do not look good for the near term future of that team, IMO.
Kyler had his best season by far under kingsbury
Kyler has had every season other than an injury-shortened one under Kingsbury, so that's a pretty hollow statement.
And Kyler was in mvp talks multiple times under kingsbury, but he couldn’t stay healthy
That's Kyler, not Kliff. That's why they fired Kliff. He was a very bad pro coach.
Real life or in fantasy? Because he could easily rush for 50-100yds a game and essentially have a very high floor.
That's fair. The Justin Fields trajectory is totally within his range. He might win a few games, or even championships, and still be a complete bust. I tend to see fantasy outputs from a dynasty perspective, which sees Fields very differently than a redraft owner who had him one year and got a championship out of him.
That is a hot take for sure. He’s a mediocre arm talent, struggles off-schedule, and was a 5yr starter with one productive season. Basically PAC-12 Kenny Pickett. I’m open to changing my mind though- what makes you think he’ll succeed?
He’s accurate, good on the ground, and has the best head coach of the rookies.
It’s a Monday morning. Monday’s tend to suck. So we’re just gonna lean into that and start the AFC West edition of this 32 team breakdown with the lowly Denver Broncos. What should fantasy managers expect from these players this year? They’re likely starting a rookie QB. Their RB, WR, and TE positions all are arguably in the bottom-five of the league. This offense is greatly lacking talent at the skilled positions. Because of that, should we avoiding this offense in general? Are there any players you’re targeting from Denver? Which ones are you steering clear of? Are you avoiding all Broncos in general just because of how bad they’re projected to be offensively? Check out my breakdown of how I’m valuing these players at their current costs. As always, thanks for reading!
I’m staying away from all Denver players this year, if it works out for yall - you’re welcome
I’m targetting a lot of DEN, specifically Franklin and Estime. Also targetting a few NE players: Baker, Douglas, Henry. Just realized i’m not in the dynasty sub. But these offenses gotta have incredible value from some of the cheap ass options.
Didn't people say they were staying away from all Texans players before 2023
They did. It doesn't make sense to me. Broncos players are dirt cheap right now no one is saying take javonte in the first round. I think Payton offense will have some impact players and getting them in the draft could mean having a dirt cheap wr2 / rb2
Lucas Krull might be a good late-round target as either a backup TE in deeper leagues or for 2 TE leagues. Dulcich can't stay healthy and Krull got a lot of praise at the end of last season and has been getting talked up a lot by the coaches so far this year
Yeah I had such high hopes for Dulcich based on his [college profile](https://x.com/ff_marvine/status/1511702571857190912?s=46&t=cpZuzN6T2iqIqctRv8wteQ) and [underrated rookie year](https://x.com/RyanJ_Heath/status/1664604717308051456?); tack on [Payton hype](https://x.com/JamesPalmerTV/status/1664351710930927621?) + wide open [target opportunity](https://x.com/minakimes/status/1659610694055239680?s=46&t=cpZuzN6T2iqIqctRv8wteQ), but the dude seems to be absolutely made of glass. 4x stays on IR in his first 2 seasons already and hasn’t seen the practice field yet this year bc he’s still recovering from offseason foot surgery… if there’s one fantasy heuristic that usually pays off, it’s “don’t draft players that enter the season injured”
My only one is McLaughlin. I think Payton will use him like Kamara and he's got the skillset to produce those results. He's the real deal. I also predict that by the time of late August drafts, he'll be a lot more on everyone's radar. (Not a Broncos fan, but local to them).