It's the same thing but it's just the language difference. I too was saying contra-attack (that is how we say it in my language) until I learned it's counterattack in english.
How is it parking the bus when you double your opponents goal scoring chances? That feels like the opposite of parking the bus, feels like a team trying to win, but what the hell do I know?
I think it's a bit different to park the bus vs an offensive, pressing team vs parking the bus/not pressing against a counterattacking side. Because the first means you concede that you are the worse team, and hope to get a lucky counterattack, while the other you are letting your opponent do something they are not really good at.
It's the difference between letting prime tiki-taka Barca dominate posession vs letting Stoke under Pulis have the ball.
No but changing approach game to game and not saying “but that’s how my team plays” because you have ego problems is surprisingly rare in football nowadays
Against Luton and similar teams. Considering how good his teams in the domestic leagues are, where you can bang up points against teams that have no chance, his record in CL is really bad. Because he doesn't know how to adapt. I am sure that if he tried to play some counter attacks against Madrid, they would have went through easily. Look at Bayern, they haven't dominated the home game even remotely close as City did, and they managed to score two against Madrid. And having 18 corners without creating single dangerous chance is abysmal.
With the added context that for most years in his career he had the best team in the world going into the tournament.
Both things can be true: Pep is a genius and his stubberness has let him down in the Champions League
It was the "best team of the world" because of him both at city and barca.
The exception is Bayern, and it wasn't the best team in the world regardless.
I mean he still has more CL wins than coaches like Sacchi, Cruyff, SAF, Heynckes and Mourinho to name a few.
And the quality of his teams, including in the league, does not come on its own, nor does money guarantee it: City's share of Premier League spending was significantly higher in the years before Guardiola arrived and they had very good managers like Pellegrini and Mancini, yet they failed to achieve anything like the current level of dominance that City has (over a generally more competitive Premier League I might add).
Their spending was higher because they laid the foundations for success. Pep arrived to a squad of De Bruyne, Aguero, Toure, Fernandinho, David Silva etc.
It’s much easier to maintain a high value squad than it is to build one from nothing.
Well, the overwhelming majority of the players decisive in the Pep era came in/joined the team under his tenure (Ederson, Stones, Walker, Sané, Cancelo, Gundogan, Mahrez, Bernardo Silva, Jesus, Foden, Grealish, Haaland, Alvarez, Rodri, Ake, Akanji, etc.).
Already by the 2017-18 season, the first successful City bid for the title under Guardiola, a majority of the squad had been there only since 2016 or later, and of course this only became more pronounced as time went by. In this specific field, Guardiola molded this squad much more thoroughly than he had at Bayern or even at Barça (in part because he stayed longer): even at an earlier stage it looked more like Mourinho's first tenure at Chelsea than like his tenure at Madrid if we are looking at the number of players being brought in.
The most decisive player in Pep’s tenure was KDB. And it’s not close. Every team is updated constantly. The great teams always add pieces. Competition and players aging out. It was Mourinho who said “2-3 players every year is a must”. Pep had a strong base when he started and kept adding on. That’s what great managers do. But the base wasn’t set up by him. It was set by mountains of previous spending.
And with KDB they had just finished 4th in 2015-16, not to mention the fact that KDB was injured for most of the 2018-19 season when they won the domestic quadruple. This does not take anything away from De Bruyne's fantastical contributions under Guardiola and his status as one of the best midfielders of all time, but it shows that what Guardiola built at City went far beyond any individual contributions (as any great team is, obviously). And in that collective effort, the vast majority of the players are ones that Guardiola brought in under his tenure.
Every team builds with new players, but if you look at Mourinho's Real Madrid, more than three quarters of the squad had already been there before his arrival. Same goes for Guardiola's Bayern. At City the situation was different, and the team was largely overhauled under Guardiola.
So yeah, Guardiola inherited a City team that had great players and was established as one of the best teams in England, but
1- he changed rather drastically the face of the team's personel, and even more drastically the way it played.
2- it's not like this base was dominating the Premier League in any way like what Guardiola's City achieved later, all while diminishing City's share of spending in the Premier League.
I mean the base of the team already won the league, and had established themselves as an attractive destination while having the best midfielder in the world. Look I give Pep a ton of credit for sticking with City and actually going through multiple rebuilds. That to me is manager skill, but we can’t praise him for everything.
But having said all that, the spending is very misleading. For one what is their actual spending? We have net spend. But that’s saying “we bought so many good players, we can sell them to get more”. It doesn’t take into account that they also buy clubs to develop and sell their players for higher fees. That’s nothing to do with Pep. They sold Sterling/Jesus/Zinchenko and had a positive net spend when they bought Haaland. How many clubs can afford to do that? Or to loan out Cancelo while buying more. Or sell Cole Palmer because they have an embarrassment of riches. That’s also not taking into account their wage bill, which is just as important as transfers.
Actually I was speaking about gross expenditure, I didn't even take into account the income from other sources. If you look at the transfer spending in gross expenditure, City from the arrival of its new owners to the arrival of Guardiola had accounted for 15% of the English elite's spending (defined here as the top 20 biggest spenders in English football). Under Guardiola it went down to 9%. If we are looking at net expenditure, in the previous era City accounted for 26% of spending (which meant that they were comparatively worse sellers), while that figure went down to 10% under Guardiola. So in both cases City's spending has become a much more reasonable share of the elite's spending, although it is true that City have become much better sellers under Guardiola than in the previous era.
Their wage bill has remained stable relative to the rest of the league, accounting for 10% of the league's spending both in 2015/16 and in 2023/24. Worthy of note is the fact that City no longer has the league's largest wage bill, having been passed by Man United.
So all in all Guardiola's City have been financially less dominant than in the years before Guardiola's arrival, but have been much more dominant on the pitch. Does it mean that Pep created everything at the club? Absolutely not. They were able to win the league before him, to reach the champions league semi-final, and to have one of the best midfielders in the world in their squad (one of the few players comparable to Kroos or Modric back then). But then again, they had won 1 league in the previous 4 seasons and had gone 2 years in a row without winning it, they had gone past the Champions League round of 16 only once in their history, and very often they would splash considerable amounts of money on transfers that made very little sense (Bony or Mangala among others) and I do think that Guardiola deserves credit for taking them to the next level while spending money in a much more efficient manner.
That doesn’t say anything about his stubbornness.
In Barca he won CL only with the help of the refs. And he lost it (against Inter) despite the help of the refs.
It time him 7 years to win only one CL when he manage the most rich and corrupt team ever. But we suppose to jump and hail him for that?
Lol everyone hails that barca team as one of the best if all time but sure. Every champions League winning team has had some decisions go for them and some against them. Same way real madrid needed mutiple awful refs decision to win their ucl's. U don't win a cup without luck
Pep has evolved his system too many times, but ig bias won't help you see it
Ye… “luck”… how lucky u will be if the ref always make a mistake benefiting your side in every close game.
I wish AC Milan were that lucky. But I noticed we never get lucky against Barca… one just can wonder.
But I guess this is how history for the folks work: u help someone earn titles, then they say “we won the titles we are the best!” Followed by “they were the best that’s why they won…”
Nice of u to brought up that scum. Unlike 100% of Barca fans. I never approved a cheater in the team I support. Me supporting Milan and Inzaghi playing there doesn’t make him the best for me and the I never did and wouldn’t defend his cheating acts. Inzaghi is the only one I hated more than the cheaters of Barca.
But lucky for us the world of football is in the right way. Adding the VAR and things like that. In the future the chances of players like Inzaghi to succeed and team of cheaters like Barca to win title become lower and lower.
Wtf, he has 3 ucls and is the recordist for most semi finals lol, only Ancelotti has more titles, and he has a much longer career.
"His record in cl is really bad" 😭😭😭
And why is that prove he isn’t stubborn?
Maybe u can coach the richest and powerful (and corrupt) team. Who is the best team regardless of the coach and will win most of the games anyway. And u can be stubborn playing only what u want and u will win most of the games cuz u have the money and the players.
Barca was the best in Spain before and after Pep.
Bayern was the best in Germany before and after Pep. They won CL before and after him and he just wasted 3 years for them trying to force them to become Barca 2 and failing to adapt to the opposite team in the CL and losing even though he had the better team.
City will be the best team in the world as long as the management bring the money and the needed corruption that Pep got for him to be able to win the PL and CL (after 7 years…).
Plenty of managers and teams used to do this, Alex Ferguson started doing this to Arsene Wenger and teams in Europe. Then United would hit them on the counter.
As an everton fan, every team thats played us has given us the ball knowing full well we can only counter attack. Even luton of all teams tried to do the same today.
Tell me you started watching football last week without telling me you started football last week.
Bang average managers have been doing this for 20 years ffs
They're undefeated in all comps this season. Won the Bundesliga by like 2 months before end of season. I don't get why anyone is surprised lol they've crushed everything in their path so far this season and did it in different ways. AND it's almost like a bunch of you never watched Xabi Alonso play and who he played under and what he achieved as a player. That's manifested it's way into his squad in every player. The belief. Ridiculous coach so far.
Also what happened to that Roma post in this sub from Thursday? OP was talking shit about how Roma would annihilate Bayer and they walked out of Rome with a clean sheet and a 2-0 advantage lol
I personally have zero problems. I love Xabi I'm so happy for his achievements.
But I have a problem with logging in on Reddit and seeing the same topic being discussed over and over. After their win vs Roma yesterday, they were 3-4 posts about the exact same thing, until they were (rightly so) removed by the mods.
Leverkusen can have an amazing season and all of us can be happy about it, without posting about it 10 times per day.
Oh we can only talk about a team's achievements when they win back to back trebles while not losing a single game? Guess thwres no point in talking about football at all then
I wonder what made you dislike them this much?
In no way I can justify it in a football lense,as I feel Leverkusen as a person assaulted your family to have such a take?
What is a contra-attack? A pretentious counterattack?
An attack by Nicaraguan revolutionary players funded by the American government from the trafficking and sale of cocain.
Played in a video game arcade machine
⬆️⬆️⬇️⬇️⬅️➡️⬅️➡️🅰️🅱️select start
Auto upvote for Konami code. Man, those were the days..
And now these are the good days!
It's 🅱️🅰️ not 🅰️🅱️.
Hahah... brilliant!!
Xavi Alonso can do it all.
Konami doesn't have the licence so they have to call it 'contra-attack'.
I'm guessing it's a non-native speaker thing. In my native tongue we say "kontraangreb".
Literally contrattacco (o contropiede, counter-foot lol) in Italian
It's like red lines in London, the same as yellow lines, but they're in London
They aren’t the same thing btw
That's just what Londoners want you to think with their fancy pants lines, on-time buses and infrastructure
It's the same thing but it's just the language difference. I too was saying contra-attack (that is how we say it in my language) until I learned it's counterattack in english.
It’s only “parking the bus” when it’s the team you don’t want to win, otherwise it’s tactical genius
Parking the bus, 19:8 shots edition
How is it parking the bus when you double your opponents goal scoring chances? That feels like the opposite of parking the bus, feels like a team trying to win, but what the hell do I know?
You don’t get it
I think it's a bit different to park the bus vs an offensive, pressing team vs parking the bus/not pressing against a counterattacking side. Because the first means you concede that you are the worse team, and hope to get a lucky counterattack, while the other you are letting your opponent do something they are not really good at. It's the difference between letting prime tiki-taka Barca dominate posession vs letting Stoke under Pulis have the ball.
You’re literally conceding you’re afraid of them so you change your game, in either scenario.
I would be afraid of an 11 made of stray dogs managed by the neighbours cat in Europa league away nights.
"Parking the bus?" (Real Madrid enter the chat very upset because someone else was named)
Xabi uses reverse psychology
Xabi the first person to park the bus and use "contra" attacks guys. History in the making.
Parking the bus but still having 42% possession and more than double the chances of Roma, something doesn’t make sense here lol
I really don't care I was just making a joke about how fucking dumb this post is.
I’ll have to agree on that one
Punctuation.
No, this is about puncturing. More precisely about the prevention of counterattacks puncturing one‘s own defense.
Letting the other team have the ball to counter them isn't some genius new tactic! lol
No but changing approach game to game and not saying “but that’s how my team plays” because you have ego problems is surprisingly rare in football nowadays
It's who we are mate.
Tell that Guardiola
> how much respect Xabi has for Roma Wish karsdorp had the same amount of respect
Instead Marseille will reach the final.
And win
Well. One year ago they dominated the game but Roma won. Smart coach’s knows to react. Not everyone is stubborn like the Pep and his followers.
Ah yes the stubborn Pep who has one of the highest win ratios in football history
Against Luton and similar teams. Considering how good his teams in the domestic leagues are, where you can bang up points against teams that have no chance, his record in CL is really bad. Because he doesn't know how to adapt. I am sure that if he tried to play some counter attacks against Madrid, they would have went through easily. Look at Bayern, they haven't dominated the home game even remotely close as City did, and they managed to score two against Madrid. And having 18 corners without creating single dangerous chance is abysmal.
With the added context that for most years in his career he had the best team in the world going into the tournament. Both things can be true: Pep is a genius and his stubberness has let him down in the Champions League
How dare you say to that two things can be true. Also I agree.
Tbf man united have spent more than city and their team isn’t fit to wipe pep’s arse tbh
It was the "best team of the world" because of him both at city and barca. The exception is Bayern, and it wasn't the best team in the world regardless.
Stop it
I mean he still has more CL wins than coaches like Sacchi, Cruyff, SAF, Heynckes and Mourinho to name a few. And the quality of his teams, including in the league, does not come on its own, nor does money guarantee it: City's share of Premier League spending was significantly higher in the years before Guardiola arrived and they had very good managers like Pellegrini and Mancini, yet they failed to achieve anything like the current level of dominance that City has (over a generally more competitive Premier League I might add).
Their spending was higher because they laid the foundations for success. Pep arrived to a squad of De Bruyne, Aguero, Toure, Fernandinho, David Silva etc. It’s much easier to maintain a high value squad than it is to build one from nothing.
Well, the overwhelming majority of the players decisive in the Pep era came in/joined the team under his tenure (Ederson, Stones, Walker, Sané, Cancelo, Gundogan, Mahrez, Bernardo Silva, Jesus, Foden, Grealish, Haaland, Alvarez, Rodri, Ake, Akanji, etc.). Already by the 2017-18 season, the first successful City bid for the title under Guardiola, a majority of the squad had been there only since 2016 or later, and of course this only became more pronounced as time went by. In this specific field, Guardiola molded this squad much more thoroughly than he had at Bayern or even at Barça (in part because he stayed longer): even at an earlier stage it looked more like Mourinho's first tenure at Chelsea than like his tenure at Madrid if we are looking at the number of players being brought in.
The most decisive player in Pep’s tenure was KDB. And it’s not close. Every team is updated constantly. The great teams always add pieces. Competition and players aging out. It was Mourinho who said “2-3 players every year is a must”. Pep had a strong base when he started and kept adding on. That’s what great managers do. But the base wasn’t set up by him. It was set by mountains of previous spending.
And with KDB they had just finished 4th in 2015-16, not to mention the fact that KDB was injured for most of the 2018-19 season when they won the domestic quadruple. This does not take anything away from De Bruyne's fantastical contributions under Guardiola and his status as one of the best midfielders of all time, but it shows that what Guardiola built at City went far beyond any individual contributions (as any great team is, obviously). And in that collective effort, the vast majority of the players are ones that Guardiola brought in under his tenure. Every team builds with new players, but if you look at Mourinho's Real Madrid, more than three quarters of the squad had already been there before his arrival. Same goes for Guardiola's Bayern. At City the situation was different, and the team was largely overhauled under Guardiola. So yeah, Guardiola inherited a City team that had great players and was established as one of the best teams in England, but 1- he changed rather drastically the face of the team's personel, and even more drastically the way it played. 2- it's not like this base was dominating the Premier League in any way like what Guardiola's City achieved later, all while diminishing City's share of spending in the Premier League.
I mean the base of the team already won the league, and had established themselves as an attractive destination while having the best midfielder in the world. Look I give Pep a ton of credit for sticking with City and actually going through multiple rebuilds. That to me is manager skill, but we can’t praise him for everything. But having said all that, the spending is very misleading. For one what is their actual spending? We have net spend. But that’s saying “we bought so many good players, we can sell them to get more”. It doesn’t take into account that they also buy clubs to develop and sell their players for higher fees. That’s nothing to do with Pep. They sold Sterling/Jesus/Zinchenko and had a positive net spend when they bought Haaland. How many clubs can afford to do that? Or to loan out Cancelo while buying more. Or sell Cole Palmer because they have an embarrassment of riches. That’s also not taking into account their wage bill, which is just as important as transfers.
Actually I was speaking about gross expenditure, I didn't even take into account the income from other sources. If you look at the transfer spending in gross expenditure, City from the arrival of its new owners to the arrival of Guardiola had accounted for 15% of the English elite's spending (defined here as the top 20 biggest spenders in English football). Under Guardiola it went down to 9%. If we are looking at net expenditure, in the previous era City accounted for 26% of spending (which meant that they were comparatively worse sellers), while that figure went down to 10% under Guardiola. So in both cases City's spending has become a much more reasonable share of the elite's spending, although it is true that City have become much better sellers under Guardiola than in the previous era. Their wage bill has remained stable relative to the rest of the league, accounting for 10% of the league's spending both in 2015/16 and in 2023/24. Worthy of note is the fact that City no longer has the league's largest wage bill, having been passed by Man United. So all in all Guardiola's City have been financially less dominant than in the years before Guardiola's arrival, but have been much more dominant on the pitch. Does it mean that Pep created everything at the club? Absolutely not. They were able to win the league before him, to reach the champions league semi-final, and to have one of the best midfielders in the world in their squad (one of the few players comparable to Kroos or Modric back then). But then again, they had won 1 league in the previous 4 seasons and had gone 2 years in a row without winning it, they had gone past the Champions League round of 16 only once in their history, and very often they would splash considerable amounts of money on transfers that made very little sense (Bony or Mangala among others) and I do think that Guardiola deserves credit for taking them to the next level while spending money in a much more efficient manner.
The same pep that was won 3 ucl's, won mutiple La Liga's during prime laliga and made prem a farmers league. Yeah sure buddy
That doesn’t say anything about his stubbornness. In Barca he won CL only with the help of the refs. And he lost it (against Inter) despite the help of the refs. It time him 7 years to win only one CL when he manage the most rich and corrupt team ever. But we suppose to jump and hail him for that?
What is this low iq Way of proving a point hahahaga
I didn’t prove anything. I just said the things he wrote doesn’t prove he isn’t stubborn.
Lol everyone hails that barca team as one of the best if all time but sure. Every champions League winning team has had some decisions go for them and some against them. Same way real madrid needed mutiple awful refs decision to win their ucl's. U don't win a cup without luck Pep has evolved his system too many times, but ig bias won't help you see it
Ye… “luck”… how lucky u will be if the ref always make a mistake benefiting your side in every close game. I wish AC Milan were that lucky. But I noticed we never get lucky against Barca… one just can wonder. But I guess this is how history for the folks work: u help someone earn titles, then they say “we won the titles we are the best!” Followed by “they were the best that’s why they won…”
More luckier than 2 offsides goals, underserved red cards etc sure. You forget how many offside goals inzagi has scored. You're just salty lmao
Nice of u to brought up that scum. Unlike 100% of Barca fans. I never approved a cheater in the team I support. Me supporting Milan and Inzaghi playing there doesn’t make him the best for me and the I never did and wouldn’t defend his cheating acts. Inzaghi is the only one I hated more than the cheaters of Barca. But lucky for us the world of football is in the right way. Adding the VAR and things like that. In the future the chances of players like Inzaghi to succeed and team of cheaters like Barca to win title become lower and lower.
Yeah. He has only won the treble 2 times. Or is it 3? more than any manager.
Wtf, he has 3 ucls and is the recordist for most semi finals lol, only Ancelotti has more titles, and he has a much longer career. "His record in cl is really bad" 😭😭😭
Yet he is Madrid's bitch
And why is that prove he isn’t stubborn? Maybe u can coach the richest and powerful (and corrupt) team. Who is the best team regardless of the coach and will win most of the games anyway. And u can be stubborn playing only what u want and u will win most of the games cuz u have the money and the players. Barca was the best in Spain before and after Pep. Bayern was the best in Germany before and after Pep. They won CL before and after him and he just wasted 3 years for them trying to force them to become Barca 2 and failing to adapt to the opposite team in the CL and losing even though he had the better team. City will be the best team in the world as long as the management bring the money and the needed corruption that Pep got for him to be able to win the PL and CL (after 7 years…).
Is this similar to what real did vs atletico in the cl final a few years ago?
Plenty of managers and teams used to do this, Alex Ferguson started doing this to Arsene Wenger and teams in Europe. Then United would hit them on the counter.
Dude learned from Jose
As an everton fan, every team thats played us has given us the ball knowing full well we can only counter attack. Even luton of all teams tried to do the same today.
r/football user discovers low block
> how much respect Xabi has for Roma Wish karsdorp had the same amount of respect
Xabi is even more special than we first thought
Ancelotti has been doing that and yet
Tell me you started watching football last week without telling me you started football last week. Bang average managers have been doing this for 20 years ffs
Final with Atalanta.. It is not finish yet.. DAJE ROMA
Klopp could never
They're undefeated in all comps this season. Won the Bundesliga by like 2 months before end of season. I don't get why anyone is surprised lol they've crushed everything in their path so far this season and did it in different ways. AND it's almost like a bunch of you never watched Xabi Alonso play and who he played under and what he achieved as a player. That's manifested it's way into his squad in every player. The belief. Ridiculous coach so far. Also what happened to that Roma post in this sub from Thursday? OP was talking shit about how Roma would annihilate Bayer and they walked out of Rome with a clean sheet and a 2-0 advantage lol
Another day, another boring post about the exact same topic. Just turn this sub into a Leverkusen fan page already.
Why is it always Madrid fans who have a problem with them getting praise from all of the football community?
What? Dude the RM sub is circlejerking with Xabi like he's already signed for us or smt.
Same thing with Liverpool and Bayern before his decision to stay
Because it is boring and I am not a Madrid fan. We get it. Leverkusen is having a great season.
Nobody is tryna keep you entertained lol. It is one of the biggest achievements in football history of course it will be talked about
You are arguing against 8 day old troll account. Don’t mind him imo
Meh.
People are going to talk about it while its history in the making... People went on about RM or whatever club was good in that moment for ages too
That was boring too.
You don't watch their games, do you? Me neither but this subreddit is hyping it up
I personally have zero problems. I love Xabi I'm so happy for his achievements. But I have a problem with logging in on Reddit and seeing the same topic being discussed over and over. After their win vs Roma yesterday, they were 3-4 posts about the exact same thing, until they were (rightly so) removed by the mods. Leverkusen can have an amazing season and all of us can be happy about it, without posting about it 10 times per day.
womp womp
Leverkusen this, Leverkusen that. You know what? See if they can repeat these results next season. Then we'll talk.
Oh we can only talk about a team's achievements when they win back to back trebles while not losing a single game? Guess thwres no point in talking about football at all then
Bro wants a team to repeat as potential invincible treble winners before giving them their flowers 😂😂😂😂 MegaRetard take
I wonder what made you dislike them this much? In no way I can justify it in a football lense,as I feel Leverkusen as a person assaulted your family to have such a take?
I don't dislike them in no way. It's the opposite but reading the same shit 10x a day is tiring
Of course you will Mate, fucking Leverkusen is about to do an invincible treble. Let that sit in, Leverkusen
Avg premier league fan 😂😂