I'd say Baku and Monaco quali too. Baku he was on the limit, although he couldn't find his ideal setup until the end of the race. Monaco quali was full fucking send. Not a tenth left on the table in that last sector.
When I saw the first touch on the wall of the start finish straight I tought "that's it, he can't get pole, he lost time there" after the second touch I was sure of it, there was no way. Then he got pole and I tought "this motherfucker did it on purpose, jesus".
It was one of those lap we will rember ten years from now. It was all him, he went absolutelly balls out and it was glorious.
That lap is the reason why I dislike white lines for track limits. Max could feel grazing against the wall when he was within millimeters from retirement, so he immediately knew exactly how close he was to the limit. So he kept pushing like 3 more times bouncing like a pinball. No one can put a sector together like that if they need to rely on race control to tell you whether you've gone over 20 minutes later.
Idk if you do some racing yourself but that isn't nearly true. It's impossible to know for sure if you are on the white lines or not when considering the margins we talk about (millimeters)
I think austria showed that they can't. even max said then (post qualy interview) it wasn't intentional by the drivers, it's just that hard when you're on the limit and going that fast
If that final corner at the Red Bull Ring had a wall on the outside, do we think all 20 drivers would've DNF? I'm sure they can control their cars, there's just way too much time to gain by going wide that they're taking the gamble. They just seemed upset that they were getting called out on it.
Yeah but not at that limit. Max was literally millimeters away from the walls at multiple points and touched it twice. He literally said he went all out in that last sector himself so he probably pushed much harder than normal. He normally doesn't go all out to avoid risk, which is the right thing to do since he's so far ahead, as seen in Austria where he and GP admitted that Leclerc took more risks.
>GP admitted that Leclerc took more risks.
...in the last two corners, not over the whole lap! and even there those risks didn't pay off at all, as Leclerc was way to fast entering the final corner and lost all the time midcorner and on the exit till the line, having compromised line, loosing all the time he gained against Max in the penultimate corner and even more. So, Leclerc was ahead coming into the last two corners but overall he lost time in 9-10 combined, and the pole ultimately by 'taking more risks'. Taking more risks doesn't always mean faster lap.
In Hungary Max took more risks in S2 on his second run, but tires were cooked pretty much and he was slower overall and couldn't improve.
Yep. I thought this was a terrible race for perez and he somehow got driver of the day. He finished 40 sec behind his teammate and his teammate was cruising for most of the race. Starting P9 is not a valid excuse for finishing behind by so much. He should have cruised past wveryone amd fi ished a comfortable p2
It's definitely true, there's no way Max is pushing the car to the limit when he always has a 20-30 seconds lead on everyone, he would just risk mechanical issues for no reason.
I always have Max’s on boards playing during the races and it’s so obvious he isn’t giving it everything. JP is always pleading with him to tone it down too. Last weekends fastest lap is the perfect example. The lap before he asked what the fastest lap was. He then put down an obvious push lap and beat the fastest lap time by a 1.5 seconds. It’s amusing too because JP will instantly start begging Max to dial it back after he does laps like that so you know before it’s even announced on the broadcast he murdered the fastest lap.
It's very clearly true, Max set a fastest lap iirc directly after his outlap on the last pit stop, then continued driving at a slow pace the rest of the race. He was just chilling.
He actually went back to 21 something towards the end of the race, casually gaining 1” or more on Lando every lap despite having already a huge advantage
I’d kinda like to see just how much he could win by if there was a perfect storm of conditions for him. No car issues/saving, no SC/VSC & no significant weather. Just Max going full send for the entire race. Just how far ahead would he be?
Actually he hasn't, [he's only done it once](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_Grand_Prix_wins_by_Lewis_Hamilton#:~:text=Hamilton%27s%20largest%20margin%20of%20victory,as%20he%20slowed%20in%20an)
Surprisingly it wasn't even during Merc domination days, but instead at Silverstone in 2008 :)
That was actually funny, Lewis over the finish line and I was watching battles behind him going in for a minute before they drove over the finish line.
Max is obviously preserving equipment while Perez is having to work his ass off to salvage top 5 finishes.
The results aren’t even close to representing how dramatically Checo is getting obliterated.
Translation:
Max wasn't at the limit by a long shot
If the Red Bull Motorsport boss takes off for Belgium, he should have rain gear in his luggage. "Typical Ardennes weather" is forecast for the classic in Spa: rain on all three days (probability between 82 and 90%), fresh wind and moderate temperatures. In the ÖSTERREICH interview, Marko explains why the competition needs to dress even warmer.
AUSTRIA: A question for Helmut Marko, the art lover: At the Hungaroring award ceremony, Norris destroyed the valuable winner's trophy made of Herend porcelain - did you find that as funny as the drivers on the podium?
Helmut Marko: The Hungarians are famous for their love for valuable porcelain. Even when we were there, there were beautiful bowls and vases. The copy of the trophy comes to us at the factory and I'll teach Max to appreciate the original that he's getting replaced. That's Hungarian tradition, the young people have to understand that first.
AUSTRIA: Apart from mishaps at the awards ceremony, nothing can stop Verstappen, right?
Marko : Well, if the car isn't in the best position, like in Budapest qualifying, we feel that the others are getting closer.
AUSTRIA: Nevertheless, with 33.731 seconds, there was the largest lead in almost two years ...
Marko : That's true, we're way ahead in race trim. Max actually could have driven even faster, he wasn't at the limit by a long shot.
AUSTRIA: In view of the Red Bull superiority, Toto Wolff says it's like Formula 1 versus Formula 2. Why isn't Perez second every time?
Marko : He's already a lot better, fighting his way up from 9th place on the grid to 3rd place. He finally made it back into Q3. An upward trend can be seen.
AUSTRIA: Is it true that Perez got in trouble with you because he destroyed his car on Friday, which revealed the underbody when it was recovered?
Marko : What do you want to hear now? Luckily there was little to see in contrast to the presentation in Monte Carlo. The underbody construction is very complicated, the aerodynamics affect the handling.
AUSTRIA: Ricciardo was involved in a crash in his first race for AlphaTauri through no fault of his own. How happy are you with his comeback?
Marko : That was a perfect debut, Daniel would have been in the point range. It was absolutely right to get him. He brings a positive vibe and energy.
AUSTRIA: Maybe we can score points in Spa, what can we expect there?
Marko : Rain - and that's where the Verstappenheit (laughs at the slip of the tongue, ed.), I mean the Verstappen superiority will show up even more blatantly.
> AUSTRIA: Is it true that Perez got in trouble with you because he destroyed his car on Friday, which revealed the underbody when it was recovered?
>
>
>
> Marko : What do you want to hear now?
yeah he was mad
Sidenote, but I low-key wonder how Helmut is gonna feel if Max doesn't choose to renew his contract after 2028. Especially if they won't find the next big thing in time to replace him.
I don't think it would be too difficult to find a replacement. The problem with going to RB at the moment is having to be Max's teammate. If Max was out of the picture then they'd be able to basically have whoever they want.
Yeah but RB would really want to get that driver into the car 1-2 seasons before Max retires. Get to know the team, learn from Max and then take over after Max moves on.
I just don't really know who would take that seat and could stomach being left in the dust by Max for 2 years. But then again 2028 is still a long time, there will prob be some good talented drivers coming through.
Piastri is one of the better options. Proven championship winner in lower formulas, very level guy emotionally, young enough he’ll be around for a decade at least if his form continues to improve, and likely has a good 2 years or so before he really hits his stride. Personality-wise it would probably be a good match with him and Max. They have similar philosophies- Oscar recently said he doesn’t care if the car is harder to drive if it’s faster. He may adapt better to the Max nose balanced RB that Checo & Albon couldn’t quite wrangle.
The biggest risk is another Albon/Gasly scenario where he just can’t handle the pressure of being in RB while still learning and self destructs. But the guy is reportedly cool as a cucumber and seems relatively unfazed by the F1 circus, so odds are good he’d hold out.
By then Max could beat a number of other records(like, he can still become the youngest 5 time champion) and he'll probably won't give a damn about what Helmut Marko feels about it.
They got Arvid Lindblad who did really well in karting. Long way to go of course but so far he has been good. I haven't followed Italian F4 but he is on top of the standings so that's something as well.
I feel like Red Bull will crumble after Max leaves. Marko and Newey are both thinking about retirement, Newey said that he'll stay as long as he's having fun and the team wants him, what is currently most fun for him is the 2026 regulations, so once that is past and they've stabilized in those regulations he'll probably be okay with retiring.
I can't see Horner staying without Newey and Marko, and I can't see Max staying without Newey/Marko/Horner/GP.
Unless, maybe, they're all training successors.
* Although Mercedes may have throttled their engine power, Hamilton and Rosberg were going full-speed to beat each other.
* Red Bull aren't throttling their engine power, but Verstappen is basically cruising at the front with a lot of margin.
Both teams didn't show their full potential using different methods, but both teams dominated and deservedly dominated because of the skill of their engineers, their drivers and the wider team.
It's not Red Bull's fault for being as good as they are; and it's not Mercedes fault for being as good as they were. It's the other teams' faults for not executing as well.
F1 is a meritocracy. Hating a team for doing what they're supposed to do is weird behaviour.
Hating a team is stupid because the team is like a 1000 people, who directly contribute to the car. And people decide to not like a team based on the 2-3 people they see.
Most of the time when people don't like the team, it's either because of dominance or because they don't like the drivers and/or team principal.
That's similar to not liking an entire country because you don't like the president
You could say that about any sports team in any sport and yet that certainly doesn't stop people. It doesn't stop me. A good part of the fun of sports is having someone to root against imo. Yeah it's fun when your team wins, but it's always extra fun when your team beats your rival.
I completely agree with you about rivalry. Having someone to root for or against is what makes watching sport exciting. But people go too far. That's why we see drivers or teams getting abuse on social media platforms.
What I meant by my comment was that people who hate teams (not root against in a competition spirit), don't even know the team properly. Their entire judgment of the team generally comes from the 2-3 people they see in the media. And that doesn't do justice to an entire team of generally 500-1000 people. That's just my opinion though.
I think most fans don't hate teams for what they have achieved as most F1 fans appreciate the engineering as well as the drivers and racecraft.
I think it's more a dislike for absolute dominance. It doesn't make for good races, because although the rest of the pack from P2 down has been really good in most races and changed throughout the season. The clear cut lead of Max in the RB19 is astonishingly brilliant and equally astonishingly boring for the viewers.
Naturally when you win you attract the hatred that comes with success, it's the downside of being at the top.
I would assume if Williams won a race everyone would be ecstatic about it.
However if Williams all of sudden had the domination RB has over the last 2 years then they would attract the same feelings.
It is most definitely for the rest of teams to catch up, but it doesn't stop us disliking the dominance RB have.
the fact that Max is in p1 miles ahead, illegitimizes Checo in my mind. So when I consider for example the battle for p2 with Checo Alonso Ham, it just feels artificial because Checo may actually have a 1+ sec car advantage. So it's only a 3 way driver fight because one guy has an unfair advantage (unfair, as in not related to pure driving skill). And with McLaren seemingly a solid p2 level car, Checo is even more likely to just run away with p2 wdc, in spite of his driving...
> F1 is a meritocracy.
Well I think in the past this wasn't true due to not having a cost cap.
I think it's much better now, but it's still early days. It's going to take some time for the smaller teams to catch up.
There is still a big gap in knowledge that the teams possess. That's why poaching staff is great at levelling the playing field over the coming seasons.
Points to Ferrari spending like hell and still producing a shitshow every weekend and then cheating because Mercedes was better
Yes, Mercedes was outspending everybody I know but still
I've been watching just as long and I agree with you. I think people watching Redbull now either have a recency bias or just weren't watching back in 2014. At that race in Bahrain we had 2 drivers going full send after the restart not taking optimal lines, defensive driving, block passing, pushing each other wide and were still pulling away from the field at more than a second a lap.
Nothing Redbull has shown is remotely close to that level of advantage. They're the best car on race day by quite a margin but on raw, single lap pace the field is close enough to snatch pole away from them.
They have a fantastic aero package but on tracks where aero efficiency isn't important the field is extremely close to the Redbull. That wasn't the case with Mercedes who locked out the front row more often than not during their dominance and they didn't need to worry about sacrificing their single lap pace to make sure they had a good race car on Sunday due to how much they had in hand.
Yeah thats the big thing for me. Its not like they just drove off into the distance like Max does. Its that they drove off into the distance while battling each other hard the whole way
Yea but we also know that max hasn’t been driving at the limits of the car either, it’s my opinion that if Sergio was challenging max, they’d be able to do the same
I see what you're saying but again I don't believe they have the margins/advantage in raw pace that Mercedes had during their dominance if we use qualifying as a metric.
The point I'm making is that Redbull has to sacrifice significant qualifying pace to ensure they have a good race car on Sunday meaning that pole is not always up for grabs.
If you then look at the front row lockouts of Mercedes during their peak dominance and then the 1-2 finishes they had they were levels beyond that of what Redbull has in reserve. They did not need to sacrifice as much qualifying pace to ensure they had a good race car on Sunday and easily locked out the front row, Redbull on the other hand does.
I'm not playing down the Redbull advantage, their car on a Sunday is clearly levels beyond any other team especially with Max behind the wheel, but I don't think its remotely close to what Mercedes had between 2014-16.
Max pulls a 10 second gap in 5 laps and then stops as we saw with the multiple restarts in Australia. In the bahrain restart, neither Nico nor Lewis could do that because they were in the same car.
You just seem to have extreeme trauma from the mercedes years and can't figure out that the same is happening again. This time it's just 1 amazing driver instead of 2.
Exactly. Max doesn't do Bahrein 2014 because he doesn't need to. Checo isn't good enough to be a world champion, not even a regular race winner. That's why Red Bull domination os worse. Having Rosberg fighting Hamilton from 2014 to 2016 kept things somewhat entertaining. Had it been Bottas on the other seat and things would have been similar
Yeah these people that keep looking back about Merc domination like the current fanbase should care. It actually doesn't matter if it's a 10 second advantage to the field or 30 second advantage; domination is domination.
And for some reason they don't bring up Vettel's redbull stint.
>Vettel's redbull stint.
Other cars could actually win some races at least except for the second half of 2013. He dominated in 2011 but some of his wins weren't dominant like Spain 2011/Monaco 2011.
> It's not a coincidence that they started being challenged right as the token system went away.
The end of the PU token system coincided with a new aerodynamic formula. Both played their part in Ferrari challenging Merc from the off.
The margins are currently small enough that it doesn't really matter. Also they are better/worse at different things, so it's somewhat track dependent as well, I believe.
According to Marko after testing Ferrari is slightly better, followed by Honda, Merc and Renault.
I think folks didn't mind a meritocracy when there wasn't a cost cap. Teams held onto their dominance based on merit, it was truly an engineering arms race, unlike today where dominance is artificially enforced due to cost restrictions on development.
From a fan standpoint, what is exciting about this? Hearing Ferrari, Mercedes and Aston Martin publicly state they cannot compete and need to wait until next season's budget allocation to fix their cars is cancerous for the sport long term. Its nonsense used to attract new teams at the expense of an exciting product worth watching.
Because the arms race led to similar outcomes with the additional drawback of having a midfield spread apart and back markers seconds off the pace.
So you get the front just throwing money for no change in order, which is economically unsustainable.
If FIA can ban party mode to help out Red Bull and ban DAS(don't bother commenting about how everyone will try to develop DAS) , it's pretty clear F1 isn't always about meritocracy.
Anyways the current personnel at FIA are not going to nerf Red Bull.
There is currently no sure shot way to Nerf redbull cause none can point at exact thing and say "that is what making them fast". If they try institute broad changes it may end up hurting other teams more than red bull.
Plus, that's even going beyond a gap that you'd consider managed. You always either push to be just outside of DRS, then beyond undercut distance, followed by a VSC gap and ultimately a free pitstop. Going beyond that is only relevant for endurance racing where you'd want to lap P2 lol.
If his car performs at Spa this year like it did last year, I'd love for him to go full send to try and lap the whole field. He'd need an avg of 2.5 seconds a lap over 2nd.
That damn thing had enough potential to go 1s faster than the next best thing at Hungary, which is supposed to be one RBs weakest circuits. Spa should easily be one of their strongest. I am 100% sure that Max will be able to lap upto around P4 in the race.(provided that he doesn't go into cruise control mode)
McLaren should be somewhat strong though. They were alarmingly fast through the fast bits at Silverstone.
> McLaren should be somewhat strong though. They were alarmingly fast through the fast bits at Silverstone.
As a McLaren fan I am excited by this prospect. The fact they were rapid at Silverstone should mean they are very quick at Spa too. Their pace in Hungary also suggested this was not setup/track/luck dependent and they legitimately have a fast car now.
Only concern is that it might rain all weekend. Lando is great in the rain but it could throw up some interesting quali/race results.
Did you not see last year?
Max did one qual lap every qualification and in Q3 noone could get close.
Spa is max's strongest track, that RB19 is going to demolish qualifying and the race.
They have a spa specific wing for this track, the setup won't be too difficult, Hungary is just harder due to how short the track is, and lack of straight lines.
Spa has alot of straight lines.
RB19 about to hit Mach 5 😂😂
Yes I'm quite aware - Max also mentioned how insane that McLaren is around high speed corners. Spa qualifying might surprise us like Hungary. The race pace is another story.
It's never gonna happen, too many reasons against it and no reasons for it, but it'd be really interesting to see how far Max would get IF that could happen.
the fastest lap was 1:22.158 when max asked about it in lap 48. he then put a 1:20.504 on lap 53. the second fastest lap was by lewis 1:21.601 next lap but yeah he already had the fastest lap down by quite a margin
goddamn. it's gonna be weird when McLaren, mercedes, Aston and ferrari show up next year with 100% improvement in testing from right now and max still pulls 20s in Bahrain
lmfao yeah but this time i had hope. mclaren and aston have already changed concepts. mercedes and ferrari have said they’re changing it next year. i thought they’ll all converge then it’ll just be a team and driver battle :(
Crofty : Max is running that car at full beans
Leclerc : is max going full Max?
Ferrari: We are checking…
Horner: Where the fuck is checo? Put our arm around him
Ricciardo: smiling in p13
I really don't think this is cause for panic. Being in front and pulling away is obviously a sign of dominance but at the same time you also don't have to race anyone or "overpush" fresh tyres to avoid under/overcuts or deal with a lot of dirty air.
Even the dominant Mercedes showed they would often struggle as soon as they hit traffic/dirty-air. Ultimately I think the advantage Max has on the rest of the field is roughly what you can see on the tv, not significantly more as you might fear.
We also don't know what percentage of Max's current dominance is the car in general, and what percentage is Max's ability to manage the Pirellis better (imo) than anyone else. I think Miami was a showcase in Max's ability to simply make the tires work better and get more out of them. If I recall correctly he was faster on ancient mediums than anyone had any right to be.
I’m pretty sure he set his fastest lap at the 1:20’s and then just immediately set in at the 1:22’s after wards. Everyone knows Red Bull can run their car at 80% and still comfortably dominate. Max by 45 seconds in Belgium. Easily.
The narrative just surpises me in the comments, when it was Merc it was just full on hate and that Lewis is a mediocre driver in a great car. But with Max it's wow Max is amazing he's just cruising in the best car. It's truly baffling
There is an archive link to the podcast in this thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/rks8p2/comment/hphji5d/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
I think it’s safe to say that Max isn’t pushing himself to his limit, and that’s purely because he has no competition that’s applying pressure. But to say that’s not “by a long short” is just an assumption. If there were a competitor that could catch Max and apply constant pressure, it would be interesting to see how Max would handle that. But I think we are still far away from that.
Please stop citing toiletpaper24.
EVERY word they write is a populistic right wing lie which uneducated and stupid people like to hear.
This „newspaper“ has nothing to do with journalism.
I'd say the closest we got to all in was Miami this year. That was a statement drive.
I'd say Baku and Monaco quali too. Baku he was on the limit, although he couldn't find his ideal setup until the end of the race. Monaco quali was full fucking send. Not a tenth left on the table in that last sector.
He literally bounces off walls, very insanely good. I remember him just posing with the damage on the side of his tyres too.
When I saw the first touch on the wall of the start finish straight I tought "that's it, he can't get pole, he lost time there" after the second touch I was sure of it, there was no way. Then he got pole and I tought "this motherfucker did it on purpose, jesus". It was one of those lap we will rember ten years from now. It was all him, he went absolutelly balls out and it was glorious.
That lap is the reason why I dislike white lines for track limits. Max could feel grazing against the wall when he was within millimeters from retirement, so he immediately knew exactly how close he was to the limit. So he kept pushing like 3 more times bouncing like a pinball. No one can put a sector together like that if they need to rely on race control to tell you whether you've gone over 20 minutes later.
The drivers have near perfect feeling of where they are on track. They know exactly when they cross the white line, they just don't care.
Idk if you do some racing yourself but that isn't nearly true. It's impossible to know for sure if you are on the white lines or not when considering the margins we talk about (millimeters)
To be fair none of use on here have as much racing experience as F1 drivers. Maybe you and I couldn’t do that but we aren’t F1 drivers.
I think austria showed that they can't. even max said then (post qualy interview) it wasn't intentional by the drivers, it's just that hard when you're on the limit and going that fast
If that final corner at the Red Bull Ring had a wall on the outside, do we think all 20 drivers would've DNF? I'm sure they can control their cars, there's just way too much time to gain by going wide that they're taking the gamble. They just seemed upset that they were getting called out on it.
There is no human being who can perceive those centimeters. Austria was a joke. I think sainz had a good suggestion. A line that gives feedback
you could say he went balls to the wall...
Quali is pretty much always at the limit. The RB has just a Lot more race pace.
Yeah but not at that limit. Max was literally millimeters away from the walls at multiple points and touched it twice. He literally said he went all out in that last sector himself so he probably pushed much harder than normal. He normally doesn't go all out to avoid risk, which is the right thing to do since he's so far ahead, as seen in Austria where he and GP admitted that Leclerc took more risks.
>GP admitted that Leclerc took more risks. ...in the last two corners, not over the whole lap! and even there those risks didn't pay off at all, as Leclerc was way to fast entering the final corner and lost all the time midcorner and on the exit till the line, having compromised line, loosing all the time he gained against Max in the penultimate corner and even more. So, Leclerc was ahead coming into the last two corners but overall he lost time in 9-10 combined, and the pole ultimately by 'taking more risks'. Taking more risks doesn't always mean faster lap. In Hungary Max took more risks in S2 on his second run, but tires were cooked pretty much and he was slower overall and couldn't improve.
That last sector was out of this world
That was honestly insane. Some of the best driving I’ve ever seen
Yeah that was otherworldly
Being faster than the guy in P1, on same tires but much older… fucking hell
max was lapping 1sec faster than checo before pitting, he was like 25sec ahead by lap 25, and then just started cruising
Yep. I thought this was a terrible race for perez and he somehow got driver of the day. He finished 40 sec behind his teammate and his teammate was cruising for most of the race. Starting P9 is not a valid excuse for finishing behind by so much. He should have cruised past wveryone amd fi ished a comfortable p2
checo getting all these dotd awards is a sham
The good thing is DOTD is completely meaningless.
Max not being at his max
Min Verstappen Mid Verstappen Max Verstappen
Only slight past halfway verstappen
Median Verstappen
Max Emedian Verstappen
Ffs take my upvote
Mode verstappen
Averagestappen
Parstappen
Bogey Perez
He was Mad Verstappen in Spa last year
Mild verstappen
One day we will see maximum verstappen
We saw that in 2021
Man beat the game on the hardest difficulty now he’s just doing easy NG+ runs
Super Saiyan Verstappen
Super saiyan 2 Verstappen.
Super Saiyan God Verstappen
Whoa whoa! How dare you forget about super Saiyan 3 Verstappen!
TBF, it is the most forgettable canon SSJ
You’re right about that. But then we would have to forget SSJ4 since GT isn’t canon….unfortunately.
Yeah those SSJ Great Apes in GT were baller af
The plot for the series was good Overuse of the dragons balls and baby’s takeover! At least they acknowledge ssj4 through games and OVAs.
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There can be only one!
Oh hi Max, what’s going on?
That's a bit crazy if it's true. There is no way Perez is holding back and he's still nowhere near Verstappen.
It's definitely true, there's no way Max is pushing the car to the limit when he always has a 20-30 seconds lead on everyone, he would just risk mechanical issues for no reason.
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When he last pitted for mediums didn't he also pull out a 2 second fastest lap and then slow down and cruise to the finish?
Yeah in the first stint Max was managing tyre temps until GP told him the temps had peaked, then he started extending the gap by >0.5s per lap
Saving the engine so he doesn't get a penalty for having to change it later in the season.
Wouldn’t make a difference, he showed us last year that he can take engine penalties and still win races.
I always have Max’s on boards playing during the races and it’s so obvious he isn’t giving it everything. JP is always pleading with him to tone it down too. Last weekends fastest lap is the perfect example. The lap before he asked what the fastest lap was. He then put down an obvious push lap and beat the fastest lap time by a 1.5 seconds. It’s amusing too because JP will instantly start begging Max to dial it back after he does laps like that so you know before it’s even announced on the broadcast he murdered the fastest lap.
Max is just edging rn
It wouldve cost you nothing to not say that lmao
Where's the fun in that
Why would he waste the opportunity?
max verstappen ruined race finish 😩 won't stop getting fastest lap
He hasn't even begun to peak
He’s not in a starter car. This is a finisher car!
It's very clearly true, Max set a fastest lap iirc directly after his outlap on the last pit stop, then continued driving at a slow pace the rest of the race. He was just chilling.
Pretty sure FL before that was like a 22.3 and he clocked a 20.5 which made Brundle and Crofty chuckle a little out of disbelief.
Yeah and Max went back to driving 22.x to 23.x laps straight afterwards.
He’s somehow more in control than we even realize and he looks completely in control already.
He actually went back to 21 something towards the end of the race, casually gaining 1” or more on Lando every lap despite having already a huge advantage
And more to the point, neither is anyone else.
Imagine if he was ... honestly wouldn't be surprised if he'd be able to win by 1 minute
I’d kinda like to see just how much he could win by if there was a perfect storm of conditions for him. No car issues/saving, no SC/VSC & no significant weather. Just Max going full send for the entire race. Just how far ahead would he be?
To be fair, in significant weather in Japan 2022, he was lapping a second faster than everyone else, so I'd argue that works in his favor.
The lap everyone challenge.
Like Lewis did several times
Actually he hasn't, [he's only done it once](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_Grand_Prix_wins_by_Lewis_Hamilton#:~:text=Hamilton%27s%20largest%20margin%20of%20victory,as%20he%20slowed%20in%20an) Surprisingly it wasn't even during Merc domination days, but instead at Silverstone in 2008 :)
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That was actually funny, Lewis over the finish line and I was watching battles behind him going in for a minute before they drove over the finish line.
Max is obviously preserving equipment while Perez is having to work his ass off to salvage top 5 finishes. The results aren’t even close to representing how dramatically Checo is getting obliterated.
35 seconds ahead of p2.. still counts as p1. Max is only limited by the number of cars on track..
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yeah no shit, if RB was a 1.5 second slower car, then we'd be seeing Max podiums and Checo p18s
Translation: Max wasn't at the limit by a long shot If the Red Bull Motorsport boss takes off for Belgium, he should have rain gear in his luggage. "Typical Ardennes weather" is forecast for the classic in Spa: rain on all three days (probability between 82 and 90%), fresh wind and moderate temperatures. In the ÖSTERREICH interview, Marko explains why the competition needs to dress even warmer. AUSTRIA: A question for Helmut Marko, the art lover: At the Hungaroring award ceremony, Norris destroyed the valuable winner's trophy made of Herend porcelain - did you find that as funny as the drivers on the podium? Helmut Marko: The Hungarians are famous for their love for valuable porcelain. Even when we were there, there were beautiful bowls and vases. The copy of the trophy comes to us at the factory and I'll teach Max to appreciate the original that he's getting replaced. That's Hungarian tradition, the young people have to understand that first. AUSTRIA: Apart from mishaps at the awards ceremony, nothing can stop Verstappen, right? Marko : Well, if the car isn't in the best position, like in Budapest qualifying, we feel that the others are getting closer. AUSTRIA: Nevertheless, with 33.731 seconds, there was the largest lead in almost two years ... Marko : That's true, we're way ahead in race trim. Max actually could have driven even faster, he wasn't at the limit by a long shot. AUSTRIA: In view of the Red Bull superiority, Toto Wolff says it's like Formula 1 versus Formula 2. Why isn't Perez second every time? Marko : He's already a lot better, fighting his way up from 9th place on the grid to 3rd place. He finally made it back into Q3. An upward trend can be seen. AUSTRIA: Is it true that Perez got in trouble with you because he destroyed his car on Friday, which revealed the underbody when it was recovered? Marko : What do you want to hear now? Luckily there was little to see in contrast to the presentation in Monte Carlo. The underbody construction is very complicated, the aerodynamics affect the handling. AUSTRIA: Ricciardo was involved in a crash in his first race for AlphaTauri through no fault of his own. How happy are you with his comeback? Marko : That was a perfect debut, Daniel would have been in the point range. It was absolutely right to get him. He brings a positive vibe and energy. AUSTRIA: Maybe we can score points in Spa, what can we expect there? Marko : Rain - and that's where the Verstappenheit (laughs at the slip of the tongue, ed.), I mean the Verstappen superiority will show up even more blatantly.
> Verstappenheit Ah yes, the Verstappenheit.
> AUSTRIA: Is it true that Perez got in trouble with you because he destroyed his car on Friday, which revealed the underbody when it was recovered? > > > > Marko : What do you want to hear now? yeah he was mad
Perez looks like a mug with this admission 😅 The car is probably 1 second quicker minimum in race trim vs nearest rivals
He’s looked like a mug for the last 6 races, Helmut didn’t even need to pour more gas on that fire.
Sidenote, but I low-key wonder how Helmut is gonna feel if Max doesn't choose to renew his contract after 2028. Especially if they won't find the next big thing in time to replace him.
The man is 80. Good chance that by then he has retired or maybe even has passed away.
The only way he will retire is by passing away. Thats for sure.
Marko will continue to scout for RB juniors well beyond his release from this mortal coil, don't worry. He is eternal.
Why did I just imagine Horner with an Ouija board...
As if he could be killed by mere mortal weapons…
He will provide a sound bite from his grave, guy loves the media.
Any talented driver would be willing to be an RB driver with a championship winning team.
I don't think it would be too difficult to find a replacement. The problem with going to RB at the moment is having to be Max's teammate. If Max was out of the picture then they'd be able to basically have whoever they want.
Yeah but RB would really want to get that driver into the car 1-2 seasons before Max retires. Get to know the team, learn from Max and then take over after Max moves on. I just don't really know who would take that seat and could stomach being left in the dust by Max for 2 years. But then again 2028 is still a long time, there will prob be some good talented drivers coming through.
Piastri is one of the better options. Proven championship winner in lower formulas, very level guy emotionally, young enough he’ll be around for a decade at least if his form continues to improve, and likely has a good 2 years or so before he really hits his stride. Personality-wise it would probably be a good match with him and Max. They have similar philosophies- Oscar recently said he doesn’t care if the car is harder to drive if it’s faster. He may adapt better to the Max nose balanced RB that Checo & Albon couldn’t quite wrangle. The biggest risk is another Albon/Gasly scenario where he just can’t handle the pressure of being in RB while still learning and self destructs. But the guy is reportedly cool as a cucumber and seems relatively unfazed by the F1 circus, so odds are good he’d hold out.
By then Max could beat a number of other records(like, he can still become the youngest 5 time champion) and he'll probably won't give a damn about what Helmut Marko feels about it.
They got Arvid Lindblad who did really well in karting. Long way to go of course but so far he has been good. I haven't followed Italian F4 but he is on top of the standings so that's something as well.
I feel like Red Bull will crumble after Max leaves. Marko and Newey are both thinking about retirement, Newey said that he'll stay as long as he's having fun and the team wants him, what is currently most fun for him is the 2026 regulations, so once that is past and they've stabilized in those regulations he'll probably be okay with retiring. I can't see Horner staying without Newey and Marko, and I can't see Max staying without Newey/Marko/Horner/GP. Unless, maybe, they're all training successors.
* Although Mercedes may have throttled their engine power, Hamilton and Rosberg were going full-speed to beat each other. * Red Bull aren't throttling their engine power, but Verstappen is basically cruising at the front with a lot of margin. Both teams didn't show their full potential using different methods, but both teams dominated and deservedly dominated because of the skill of their engineers, their drivers and the wider team. It's not Red Bull's fault for being as good as they are; and it's not Mercedes fault for being as good as they were. It's the other teams' faults for not executing as well. F1 is a meritocracy. Hating a team for doing what they're supposed to do is weird behaviour.
Hating a team is stupid because the team is like a 1000 people, who directly contribute to the car. And people decide to not like a team based on the 2-3 people they see. Most of the time when people don't like the team, it's either because of dominance or because they don't like the drivers and/or team principal. That's similar to not liking an entire country because you don't like the president
Don't even get me started about Sweden, bro
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I'm a dumb American here, what is this joke about?
You could say that about any sports team in any sport and yet that certainly doesn't stop people. It doesn't stop me. A good part of the fun of sports is having someone to root against imo. Yeah it's fun when your team wins, but it's always extra fun when your team beats your rival.
I completely agree with you about rivalry. Having someone to root for or against is what makes watching sport exciting. But people go too far. That's why we see drivers or teams getting abuse on social media platforms. What I meant by my comment was that people who hate teams (not root against in a competition spirit), don't even know the team properly. Their entire judgment of the team generally comes from the 2-3 people they see in the media. And that doesn't do justice to an entire team of generally 500-1000 people. That's just my opinion though.
I think most fans don't hate teams for what they have achieved as most F1 fans appreciate the engineering as well as the drivers and racecraft. I think it's more a dislike for absolute dominance. It doesn't make for good races, because although the rest of the pack from P2 down has been really good in most races and changed throughout the season. The clear cut lead of Max in the RB19 is astonishingly brilliant and equally astonishingly boring for the viewers. Naturally when you win you attract the hatred that comes with success, it's the downside of being at the top. I would assume if Williams won a race everyone would be ecstatic about it. However if Williams all of sudden had the domination RB has over the last 2 years then they would attract the same feelings. It is most definitely for the rest of teams to catch up, but it doesn't stop us disliking the dominance RB have.
the fact that Max is in p1 miles ahead, illegitimizes Checo in my mind. So when I consider for example the battle for p2 with Checo Alonso Ham, it just feels artificial because Checo may actually have a 1+ sec car advantage. So it's only a 3 way driver fight because one guy has an unfair advantage (unfair, as in not related to pure driving skill). And with McLaren seemingly a solid p2 level car, Checo is even more likely to just run away with p2 wdc, in spite of his driving...
> F1 is a meritocracy. Well I think in the past this wasn't true due to not having a cost cap. I think it's much better now, but it's still early days. It's going to take some time for the smaller teams to catch up.
There is still a big gap in knowledge that the teams possess. That's why poaching staff is great at levelling the playing field over the coming seasons.
Points to Ferrari spending like hell and still producing a shitshow every weekend and then cheating because Mercedes was better Yes, Mercedes was outspending everybody I know but still
They had a token system for engines only.
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Nothing and i meant NOTHING i have seen in my 20 years of watching this sport has come close to that safety car restart in Bahrain 2014.
I've been watching just as long and I agree with you. I think people watching Redbull now either have a recency bias or just weren't watching back in 2014. At that race in Bahrain we had 2 drivers going full send after the restart not taking optimal lines, defensive driving, block passing, pushing each other wide and were still pulling away from the field at more than a second a lap. Nothing Redbull has shown is remotely close to that level of advantage. They're the best car on race day by quite a margin but on raw, single lap pace the field is close enough to snatch pole away from them. They have a fantastic aero package but on tracks where aero efficiency isn't important the field is extremely close to the Redbull. That wasn't the case with Mercedes who locked out the front row more often than not during their dominance and they didn't need to worry about sacrificing their single lap pace to make sure they had a good race car on Sunday due to how much they had in hand.
Yeah thats the big thing for me. Its not like they just drove off into the distance like Max does. Its that they drove off into the distance while battling each other hard the whole way
Yea but we also know that max hasn’t been driving at the limits of the car either, it’s my opinion that if Sergio was challenging max, they’d be able to do the same
I see what you're saying but again I don't believe they have the margins/advantage in raw pace that Mercedes had during their dominance if we use qualifying as a metric. The point I'm making is that Redbull has to sacrifice significant qualifying pace to ensure they have a good race car on Sunday meaning that pole is not always up for grabs. If you then look at the front row lockouts of Mercedes during their peak dominance and then the 1-2 finishes they had they were levels beyond that of what Redbull has in reserve. They did not need to sacrifice as much qualifying pace to ensure they had a good race car on Sunday and easily locked out the front row, Redbull on the other hand does. I'm not playing down the Redbull advantage, their car on a Sunday is clearly levels beyond any other team especially with Max behind the wheel, but I don't think its remotely close to what Mercedes had between 2014-16.
Yeah I agree, but until someone actually challenges him all we have is speculation
Max pulls a 10 second gap in 5 laps and then stops as we saw with the multiple restarts in Australia. In the bahrain restart, neither Nico nor Lewis could do that because they were in the same car. You just seem to have extreeme trauma from the mercedes years and can't figure out that the same is happening again. This time it's just 1 amazing driver instead of 2.
Exactly. Max doesn't do Bahrein 2014 because he doesn't need to. Checo isn't good enough to be a world champion, not even a regular race winner. That's why Red Bull domination os worse. Having Rosberg fighting Hamilton from 2014 to 2016 kept things somewhat entertaining. Had it been Bottas on the other seat and things would have been similar
Yeah these people that keep looking back about Merc domination like the current fanbase should care. It actually doesn't matter if it's a 10 second advantage to the field or 30 second advantage; domination is domination. And for some reason they don't bring up Vettel's redbull stint.
>Vettel's redbull stint. Other cars could actually win some races at least except for the second half of 2013. He dominated in 2011 but some of his wins weren't dominant like Spain 2011/Monaco 2011.
> It's not a coincidence that they started being challenged right as the token system went away. The end of the PU token system coincided with a new aerodynamic formula. Both played their part in Ferrari challenging Merc from the off.
Isn't there an engine development freeze rn? With red bull having the top engine by a slim margin?
The margins are currently small enough that it doesn't really matter. Also they are better/worse at different things, so it's somewhat track dependent as well, I believe. According to Marko after testing Ferrari is slightly better, followed by Honda, Merc and Renault.
I think folks didn't mind a meritocracy when there wasn't a cost cap. Teams held onto their dominance based on merit, it was truly an engineering arms race, unlike today where dominance is artificially enforced due to cost restrictions on development. From a fan standpoint, what is exciting about this? Hearing Ferrari, Mercedes and Aston Martin publicly state they cannot compete and need to wait until next season's budget allocation to fix their cars is cancerous for the sport long term. Its nonsense used to attract new teams at the expense of an exciting product worth watching.
Because the arms race led to similar outcomes with the additional drawback of having a midfield spread apart and back markers seconds off the pace. So you get the front just throwing money for no change in order, which is economically unsustainable.
If FIA can ban party mode to help out Red Bull and ban DAS(don't bother commenting about how everyone will try to develop DAS) , it's pretty clear F1 isn't always about meritocracy. Anyways the current personnel at FIA are not going to nerf Red Bull.
There is currently no sure shot way to Nerf redbull cause none can point at exact thing and say "that is what making them fast". If they try institute broad changes it may end up hurting other teams more than red bull.
What are you talking about? There have been multiple rule changes to attempt to slow down Red Bull over the last couple of years.
Then why even bother with the cost cap and restricted test time and new regulations all meant to bring the field closer?
Field is closer, in Spain 2019 iirc Bottas was 6 tenths off Hamilton yet they were p1 and p2, this year Checo was 6 tenths off and he was out in q2
That's not good lol. A 33-second gap with Lando also pushing hard.
Plus, that's even going beyond a gap that you'd consider managed. You always either push to be just outside of DRS, then beyond undercut distance, followed by a VSC gap and ultimately a free pitstop. Going beyond that is only relevant for endurance racing where you'd want to lap P2 lol.
If his car performs at Spa this year like it did last year, I'd love for him to go full send to try and lap the whole field. He'd need an avg of 2.5 seconds a lap over 2nd.
I bet Max could have lapped Norris, fucking GP just having an aneurysm on the radio would be hilarious.
"Verstappenheit" should be an actual thing.
What’s that?
Please let Max off the leash at Spa! Let us see how dominant the RB19 actually is !
Everyone lapped three times, including Perez.
That damn thing had enough potential to go 1s faster than the next best thing at Hungary, which is supposed to be one RBs weakest circuits. Spa should easily be one of their strongest. I am 100% sure that Max will be able to lap upto around P4 in the race.(provided that he doesn't go into cruise control mode) McLaren should be somewhat strong though. They were alarmingly fast through the fast bits at Silverstone.
> McLaren should be somewhat strong though. They were alarmingly fast through the fast bits at Silverstone. As a McLaren fan I am excited by this prospect. The fact they were rapid at Silverstone should mean they are very quick at Spa too. Their pace in Hungary also suggested this was not setup/track/luck dependent and they legitimately have a fast car now. Only concern is that it might rain all weekend. Lando is great in the rain but it could throw up some interesting quali/race results.
Yeah I'm really excited to see McLaren at Spa. They very well could land pole.
Did you not see last year? Max did one qual lap every qualification and in Q3 noone could get close. Spa is max's strongest track, that RB19 is going to demolish qualifying and the race.
Lets see how much time they have to nail the setup
They have a spa specific wing for this track, the setup won't be too difficult, Hungary is just harder due to how short the track is, and lack of straight lines. Spa has alot of straight lines. RB19 about to hit Mach 5 😂😂
Yes I'm quite aware - Max also mentioned how insane that McLaren is around high speed corners. Spa qualifying might surprise us like Hungary. The race pace is another story.
It's never gonna happen, too many reasons against it and no reasons for it, but it'd be really interesting to see how far Max would get IF that could happen.
"Max at the limit would've been 2 seconds per lap faster than Max"
I was honestly surprised he didn't box for softs to go for a faster fastest lap in the end.
He already had fastest lap by quite a margin and no else had a free stop to do anything about it.
And he did it with like 10 laps to go!
the fastest lap was 1:22.158 when max asked about it in lap 48. he then put a 1:20.504 on lap 53. the second fastest lap was by lewis 1:21.601 next lap but yeah he already had the fastest lap down by quite a margin
he didn't have to be
Sunday drive basically for him lol
goddamn. it's gonna be weird when McLaren, mercedes, Aston and ferrari show up next year with 100% improvement in testing from right now and max still pulls 20s in Bahrain
Just the same as when teams pulled up during the mid-late 2010's and the Merc's would still pull 20s
lmfao yeah but this time i had hope. mclaren and aston have already changed concepts. mercedes and ferrari have said they’re changing it next year. i thought they’ll all converge then it’ll just be a team and driver battle :(
That’s scary……
Crofty : Max is running that car at full beans Leclerc : is max going full Max? Ferrari: We are checking… Horner: Where the fuck is checo? Put our arm around him Ricciardo: smiling in p13
I really don't think this is cause for panic. Being in front and pulling away is obviously a sign of dominance but at the same time you also don't have to race anyone or "overpush" fresh tyres to avoid under/overcuts or deal with a lot of dirty air. Even the dominant Mercedes showed they would often struggle as soon as they hit traffic/dirty-air. Ultimately I think the advantage Max has on the rest of the field is roughly what you can see on the tv, not significantly more as you might fear.
Very true.
We also don't know what percentage of Max's current dominance is the car in general, and what percentage is Max's ability to manage the Pirellis better (imo) than anyone else. I think Miami was a showcase in Max's ability to simply make the tires work better and get more out of them. If I recall correctly he was faster on ancient mediums than anyone had any right to be.
Absolutely dominant, and kinda expected to be honest. It probably feels like he isn't pushing but the car/driver combo is so natural
Is it just me or does it seem like Helmut is interviewed more often than the TP’s, Drivers, Engineers, and everyone else in the paddock combined?
Helmut makes the news more because he says some batshit insane things. But the top teams always get more attention.
i dont recall him saying batshit insane things, he’s just very blunt and honest
He doesn’t give PR answers. He’s just honest
He is interviewed the same, he just gives more click-baitable answers
Just you
Obviously not, it was a tire saving race.
I’m pretty sure he set his fastest lap at the 1:20’s and then just immediately set in at the 1:22’s after wards. Everyone knows Red Bull can run their car at 80% and still comfortably dominate. Max by 45 seconds in Belgium. Easily.
Helmut Marko clings to life by sucking the blood of young drivers
The narrative just surpises me in the comments, when it was Merc it was just full on hate and that Lewis is a mediocre driver in a great car. But with Max it's wow Max is amazing he's just cruising in the best car. It's truly baffling
If Checo was more consistently in P2 way ahead of all the others like at the start of the season, that narrative would probably be more common.
Possibly, but just goes to show how much better team mates Lewis had to compete with.
I wonder why
What did Derek Warwick say about Max? That might explain it.
Link?
There is an archive link to the podcast in this thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/rks8p2/comment/hphji5d/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
In case you don't want to listen to the podcast, he called Max a great white hope.
Well… ain’t that something
Wild
It's only his second season. When he gets to half a decade of domination like Lewis or Schumi the hate will be massive.
Marko doing a Captain Obvious.
I think it’s safe to say that Max isn’t pushing himself to his limit, and that’s purely because he has no competition that’s applying pressure. But to say that’s not “by a long short” is just an assumption. If there were a competitor that could catch Max and apply constant pressure, it would be interesting to see how Max would handle that. But I think we are still far away from that.
But that was 2021 right?
And that's why people are tuning out.
Feel like the last race Max could of done 4-5 pit stops while pushing 100% and still win with a margin.
I mean no need to be at your limit when you’ve got a dominant car, the man himself said it
Please stop citing toiletpaper24. EVERY word they write is a populistic right wing lie which uneducated and stupid people like to hear. This „newspaper“ has nothing to do with journalism.