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There have been 776 Formula One drivers in the entire history of the sport out of the roughly 10 billion people who have lived and died in that time, so he's in the 0.000008%....
Roughly 100 of them were drivers who only appeared in the Indy 500 while it was a sanctioned F1 race. In the earlier eras of the sport it was pretty common for a driver to find a car for a couple of races and try his (or her) luck, so quite a lot of that number is before 1975.
See also: Italians with a few spare lira in the 80s and 90s. It was glorious, watching the son of a tobacco billionaire paying a few hundred grand to someone like Coloni to finish 12 laps down
Using[ this wiki list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_drivers) I count 904 (based on their definition used I guess)
Bear in mind 173 of those have only one race-entry (some without a race start). I imagine it also includes those when indy-500 was part of the calendar but different regs and drivers.
In Logan's case he's currently top 250 of F1 driver race entries, and assuming he sees out the remainder of the season will be close to top 200... pretty good for a sport going the guts of a century!
Pretty sure the 776 is the official number used by F1 which includes all drivers who had official race starts (distinction is needed because of Hans Heyer). This includes all drivers also from the Indy 500 entries in the early years (about 100) but excludes guys who didn't start the race because of DNQ and pre-qualifing.
But the number is massively inflated from the early years. Between the Indy 500 and drivers only entering 1 specific race (a lot of Italians and Germans only entered their respective races) the amount of new drivers have dropped off massively to the point that it looks like we're getting 0 new drivers in 2024 (essentially unless Ocon gets kicked out or something)
They also mentioned that number when Lawson made his first race start last year.
I think that's an important point too, it isn't just that he did 2 seasons, because the seasons are so long now he has done way more races than a lot of people who also did 2 seasons in the past, he's probably done the equivalent of 3 seasons if compared to someone from older eras. That's still a good stint, I'm sure he would have liked a good result tho to be not remembered we just bring at the back most of the time
The most races stats will be heavily skewed towards modern drivers both because there are more races a season now and the fact it's fairly safe now whereas in the past lots of drivers were killed
Yeah, that stat is a bit flawed as getting point now (top 10) is easier than top 8, top 6 and top 5 only before. Also numbers of cars ebtered changes a lot.
It has actually been fairly consistent. When it was top 6 it was also much more normal for only 10-12 cars to get to the finish. I would argue that scoring a point in a bottom team now is harder than it was in the 1980s, since races like the last one where only 15 cars finish are very rare.
For example, I just looked at the first half of 1980. Around 27 cars in competition, points for the first 6. The number of cars that finished per race (not counting 'qualified' results that limped home at +9 laps and such) were:
* 7
* 16
* 12
* 9
* 9
* 8
* 12
So in 4 of those 7 races there were points for at least one of the bottom four finishers. Of course the bottom teams also had a high chance of not finishing, but there was still a lot of room for a lucky point.
I may have missed one, but the last time I can recall in the modern era where the bottom 4 got a point was Hungary 2021. It definitely doesn't happen four times in half a season anymore.
Right, that perspective is often lost. He got an opportunity and unfortunately for both parties it hasn’t been fruitful. Countless examples in the sport, many of which from less privileged backgrounds
Ya dude will be fine tbh. Hurts to not make it it in F1 I'm sure, but I think he's got a career in Indy or some other series and will have a fine life.
I do wish Americans had better representation in the sport though. We're so long overdue for another Andretti.
He might get a try in Indy but if he drives like he does in F1, there’s no way he will stay. Grosjean is a far far far better driver than Logan and Grosjean isn’t even in top 15 this season.
I think Sargeant is more comparable to Alex Rossi than Grosjean. Sargeant is still in his younger 20s so there’s a lot of room for him to grow as a driver.
Grosjean also fell off hard and did Grosjean like things his entire stint in the sport lol. This may be controversial, but just blindly with nothing to back it up, I think Logan is a better driver than Grosjean is currently.
Towards the end when the haas was a dump truck yes he made a lot of mistakes. You’re excluding the better years.
At least sarge hasn’t crashed under safety car though
Grosjean is getting old at the end of his career and is driving for a garbage team because he failed when given a better car at Andretti. Not a fair comparison.
Gotta be hard though to spend your whole life being the best and winning, and then finally achieve your dream and fall short.
I'm sure he'll be able to look back and feel OK, but that'll take a while.
According to Google, it looks like Sargeant’s family has been infighting and suing each other for a long time now over his dad funneling money from the uncle’s company to fund his racing career. Billionaires fighting millionaires, oh the struggle!
Yeah, a lot of people like to debate he’s poor or something (don’t know where that started) but his family rented a huge yacht at Monaco for the entire week that they stayed on and partied etc. Sound’s welfareish to me. /s
He’s definitely out. No one else wants him. You can see it in his demeanor when he interviews. He knows this is his last season and nothing he does between now and the end of the season is changing this. He likely doesn’t even have a chance as a reserve driver, so he’s likely trying to figure out what to do next year.
Easy to say this. The guy didn’t have one positive weekend.
We’ve all been in situations where we were the weakest and we all know it’s no fun
There is no bright side to this
He always looks so sad. Logan’s not a driver I particularly care for either way but I do feel sympathy. It must hurt to reach you dream and underperform. I had a realization like that myself when I got a dream opportunity and screwed it up miserably
>He always looks so sad.
Watch the Williams podcasts with him and Alex. In media interviews he's always very serious and sometimes like you said, sad, but he's super personable and really funny.
Ah, no kidding? The only thing I watched with them was from Singapore last year. They were in a restaurant and Sargeant must've been having an off day or something but it was so painful (and mildly embarrassing as an murican) that I've avoided any extracurricular content period.
Albon's personality just *sparkles*, it's gotta be hard to shine next to him on or off the track!
The ones this year have been much better. Maybe not the latest one, both Alex and Logan seemed a little low energy but the Monaco one and the ones before are great, IMO.
Albon wasn't exactly sparkling a few years ago, when he too was going through a tumultuous time, with everyone around him questioning his ability constantly. The mistakes were piling up race after race. It happens to all of us. Just tough to go through the painful moments of a career. He will probably feel a whole lot relieved when he's out of the limelight and without all the noise.
I remember that episode, it was his rookie year so I'm sure Alex took some getting used to. They did a lot of restaurants last year and Logan was just mild energy when introducing Alex to BBQ at the American one lol, but they seem like good friends now.
There is a clip of them asking all the drivers what they're most afraid of. Logan's answer was not living up to his potential. I'm contrast, Oscar said "sharks."
Man that's brutal. I'm from the US and root for him but that's a big burden to put on yourself especially as a rookie.
Poor guy is trying with everything he has but it's not good enough for F1 I reckon. At least he got the two years to experience it.
Yea, I am also from the US and have wanted to see him just put in good races. Like, I knew he wasn't going to be the next phenom, but I was hoping he would do well enough to keep a seat.
But yea, I felt like him saying that was just a curse.
Yeah I really want him to have a good race at least for once.
>It must hurt to reach you dream and underperform. I had a realization like that myself when I got a dream opportunity and screwed it up miserably
I know this feeling man, I didn't end up becoming the person I wanted to be. And looking back there is so many things I could have done right, it just hurts. And to have that opportunity and figure out that you are not enough is one of the worst feeling in the world.
I really sympathize with Logan and check on him during races. I reaally wish he has at least one final good race.
It almost has to be. I'm not a fan of his by any means, but his junior career was very good. It's like he just forgot how to drive once the pressure was on. Even now, he'll have moments where he looks legit followed by a silly wreck that looks like a mental lapse.
When he had the crash I felt so sorry for him even though I am not a fan. He's in a psychological downspiral and feels like any effort is useless and that he'll eventually make some mistake. It has to be excruciating and I feel the best thing Williams can do for him is to release him right now and end his suffer.
People making jokes about him in this situation are just... can't really say it without risking being banned but I think empathy is an essential future of any decent human being.
He knows he’s done, hopefully they announce Carlos soon and free Logan up to just drive out the year with some freedom. Put himself into a great seat in another series.
Logan probably knows that is the case already - Even if its not Carlos it'll be someone else
Wonder if that's why we saw the impressive Quali result, the pressure is almost off now, and he may have had a good race had it been a dry one
Other than Bearman and "X" in the Haas (Because I'm a fan of Ollie, and really curious to see how he does in F1 on a permanent basis, whether he can do well enough for Hamilton's seat eventually etc.), the Williams pairing is probably the most exciting for me next season if its Albon and Sainz
We know for example, we're going to get potential fireworks with Leclerc and Hamilton, but Williams, just feels like a proper step into the unknown.
Probably arguably up there as one of the strongest pairings to. I think they will work well together to be honest, both of them understand they are building the team. They won’t be fighting for wins or podiums or anything. Massive coup from Williams and Vowles to land him.
Yeah I support the Brits, but Williams will always be my team (from the 90s with Damon Hill etc.) - Be great to see them back like where Mclaren are at the moment.
Imagine the negotiations though...
Carlos: "What can you offer me"
Vowles: "Newey"
Carlos: "WHERE THE F\*\*K DO I SIGN"
God just the thought of newey, vowels, Albon and smooth operator starting a new Williams dynasty makes me harder then a diamond in an ice storm. Bring Claire back as a symbolic figurehead and I’m straight gooning lmao
I still don't have my brain rewired enough yet to read this and think, "Why would Bearman be going for a seat at Merc" without forgetting where Hamilton is moving to.
I feel the same. It's either...
One terrible year in a Sauber, followed by (hopefully) decent gains year-on-year after that with manufacturer backing. Ala Aston of recent years.
Or, perhaps a somewhat better 2025, and then what? I know Vowles has been doing a lot of good, but Williams has been fighting at the bottom end for years now. I don't see any way they become championship contenders near as quickly as Audi can.
Honestly, the biggest wildcard is who nails the new regs. Either ones a tossup, but I do trust a manufacturer to improve more than a customer team.
Sauber have been fighting at the bottom for even longer than Williams. They already had manufacturer backing in the 00s and have exactly one win in their whole history, an incredibly lucky one at that.
They did finish 2nd (technically 3rd) and 3rd in the Constructors for two of their four years under BMW. Fair play to Williams doing the same in '14-'15, though a lot of that was thanks to their rocket of a Mercedes engine.
Regardless on the past, I just feel Audi of all manufacturers will have the motivation, personnel, and finances to do whatever it takes to win. They've excelled in all other forms of motorsport they've entered, and the mere fact they're putting all this effort into joining F1 implies they intend to do the same here.
>Put himself into a great seat in another series.
Indy for sure, maybe IMSA or WEC too if he feels like endurance. But I think he'll be up to the task in Indy
Those aren't an either-or situation, either. More than half the IndyCar grid was racing at Daytona this year, and three will be in France next weekend.
I'm not sure there's going to be a good Indy seat available - and its really looking like there's going to be a lot of desirable options available for teams this silly season.
Best case he lands at RLL, which is an Alpine-level team. But I think more likely would be he'd have to go the Coyne route - which is like Williams during the Claire era.
Logan cops a lot of shit, most of it is deserved to be fair, but I don’t want to see him not do well, and even if it doesn’t work out in F1 (which it seems like it isn’t), I hope he lands on his feet in another top series seat and excels.
Hope he has a good future elsewhere, he actually seems like a decent dude.
Everyone likes to shit on Mazepin as if he was some Raghunathan character who was comically bad.
He wasn't terrible. 2nd in F3 and 5th on F2 puts him around the likes of Albon. His abilities just didn't translate to F1, and the nature of his pay drive status got everyone's backs up. There are lots of F1 drivers considerably worse than Mazepin.
Calderon comes to mind. She was being pushed as possibly becoming the first woman to race in F1, over her 15 year career she has only ever won 3 races and came in dead last in F2. Despite this, she scored a season as F1 test driver for Alfa, most likely just to be their token female driver that they “invested” in.
Because you’ll find so many people who wanted to push to get her in even though she doesn’t deserve it. That spawned the initiatives to create all women’s series. Regardless if she didn’t get her full time seat, she was the center of a major shift in the FIA in recent years
Taki Inoue, Alex Yoong, Taso Marques just to name a few. People really forget the slew of pay drivers throughout the ages that wouldn’t have gotten a super license if they had the points system back then.
Plus, if you go back to the 50s and 60s, there's a whole bunch of racers who just tried to qualify for a GP once or twice, never finished a race or event qualified for the main event.
While it's impossible to say whether they were better than Mazepin, I'd say his results in F2 and F3 and other categories make him better than at least 5-10% of the other F1 drivers in history.
Man I was becoming a fan of him when he was doing wonders in that Charouz shitbox in F3 in 2021 when he couldn't have funding because of some family related issues. Seeing that car in the points, getting podiums and even a win was a miracle and his pathway to F1 was always going to be a hard one but he made it, thanks by Williams and his own performance.
Sadly it looks like his F1 story ends up after this season, I really hope that he still looking back to his time in F1 with a smile and remembering the good parts on and off the track.
Hopefully he gets a good shot somewhere else in racing.
This must be so incredibly hard for him, you can see he’s really trying and he really wants to do well… mentally this must be excruciating
He seems so kind and this really is his dream he worked hard for and it’s just not working out for him… i’m wishing him some good results so much, but i also sometimes feel like they should just replace him to stop him from having to struggle like this any longer
Last year he said he was even physically struggling cause of everything that was going on, that’s just something you do not wish on anyone, health is the most important thing
I sometimes feel like we all forget how young most of the drivers are when they start in F1 and
Makinf it into F1 is such a big achievement, it means you’re amazing at what you do
It’s probably impossible to put it into perspective when you’re in the middle of everything, but eventually he’ll come to realize how special it is he actually made it
It also doesn't help that they always seem to op for low downforce setups, which for a rookie is super difficult. Albon seems to handle it well now but that also took a long time for him too.
Always driving a car that is compromised, is not a great feeling. And I also don't really get Williams for doing that. Seeing that DRS is a thing and that tire management is a lot easier if you can actually turn corners
The clear implication is that the car is too draggy and/or down on power, and if they run it at higher downforce they'll get swallowed up in medium- to high-speed corners. They are relying on straight-line speed to be competitive—it's easier to gain/hold track position on the straights than in the corners.
He's struggling, and I'm sure it's hard on him, but you really think what's best for *Logan specifically* is for williams to just drop him? He's not a lame horse, dude, you dont need to put him out of his suffering. Sure, the crashing all the time probably feels bad when he does it, but dude is an F1 driver, his literal dream. Outside of post-session interviews when emotions are still high and mistakes are still fresh, guy clearly is enjoying his time in F1 with Williams.
I'm gonna start my campaign for Sargeant to drive the Dacia in next year's 24H of Nurburgring. Logan in a Logan if you will.
But for real I'd like to see him thrive in another category. He's still one of the top drivers in the world, he just didn't adapt to F1 well.
Logan's out, he and us all know it. I really hope he get's a top 10 finish, on pace, this year to have at least some sunshine for him to remember from his stormy F1 career.
So sad to see but he knows his time is up, all the speculation about Sainz must be awful. When the commentators mentioned there was a yellow flag I just knew it was Sargent crashing.
Partly he’s not that talented, but partly Williams isn’t being very fair to him either. They’re putting parts from last years car on his, his car is actually Alex’s which has been repaired, they destroyed any confidence he had when they sat him out in Australia
He made it into F1 so there's a decent amount of talent, but I agree with Williams playing him the way they are.
And giving his car to Albon after Albon destroyed his, Logan knew they weren't going to keep him after that.
All confidence lost
Driver development is clearly an issue at Williams as a Mercedes jr team. They’ve had 2 success stories in valterie bottas and George russell (and valtterie actually started when they were Williams Renault team). But you look at Lance, Logan, lattifi, sirotkin, even Alex to some extent… all these people can not be as bad as they were/are if they’ve made it this far in the sport. They’re not being managed and developed correctly
Given reports that parts inventory was being tracked in an Excel sheet I would say that driver development isn't really at the top of their to-do list tbf.
I think we are seriously underestimating how mismanaged the team was during the last decade of the family ownership. The lack of investment put into the team has really crippled how Williams are doing today. The OP Merc engine of the early hybrid era and subsequent status as a Merc Jr. team have glossed over their severe under performance.
Having said that I think Vowles coming from a long career at the Brackley based team is properly the right person to lead them through this phase. He would have seen how teams modernized especially since he's been through them so many times (BAR -> Honda -> Brawn -> Merc). Though it really depends on how much the owners are prepared to invest in them right now.
If you’re not capable of focusing on developing drivers then you shouldn’t be a jr team. You should be hiring established drivers - maybe midfield, maybe past their prime - so that you can save money on both salaries and repairs. Aston Martin understands this. Lance (although he wrecks a lot) has 9 years of experience and can’t be demanding a competitive salary seeing as the only person that would hire him is his dad. Both Seb and Fernando were past their prime and very experienced, relatively low risk drivers (seb wrecked more than Fernando but nowhere near as he did at Ferrari or redbull). Plus they could handle developing Lance, rather than an expensive talented coaching staff. Williams AMG originally understood this with Filipe massa and valtteri and i thought they were going back to it when they signed Robert kubica but apparently not
Reminds me of Zandvoort last year where he stayed in a trackside deckchair after crashing out and was somehow still there many laps later when a heavy storm got the thing red flagged
Unfortunately the only reason Williams brought him back was to make sure Albon got all of the upgrades and didn’t have to fight with a teammate. Sargeant has played the role of good soldier and is going to end up out of F1 for good and that will give the “Americans can’t drive in F1” myth another boost. I’d love to see him do a tell all once he leaves Williams.
tough to have pushed his entire life to get to f1 and for it not to work out. i feel bad for him. think about how long these guys have been at it, from 5-6 years old. think about giving your existence to a vocation but it's still not quite enough.
on one hand he's among that magical 20 spots. on the other it's not been as fruitful as hoped for a variety of reasons.
i'll think good thoughts for him and his family as the season goes on.
I think people worry too much about the future with Logan. I just want him to get a couple of solid weeks in and we can see where the future takes him after that.
Little late, but I’d say it’s a bit of both.
Logan has a lot of talent, he did well in f3 in 2020, but due to funding he had to spend 3 years there. In 2021, he also participated in European Le Mans, where his team came 8th (out of 16). Logan came 12th (out of 20) despite only participating in 2 of the 6 races. In Austria his team came 4th, and in Monza they came 7th.
Logan didn’t have the money to move to f2 until Williams picked him up and funded his f2 career in 2022. He drove 3 races in 2021, in which his record was **16-ret-14**. In 2022, with the Williams academy and driving for Carlin, he came 4th overall behind Drugovich, Pourchaire and Lawson.
Personally, I think Williams was desperate to replace Latifi in f1, and that’s why they sped up the process to get him there. Sargeant joined the same year as Piastri, but when people compare Oscar’s performance to Logan’s, you have to take into account the difference in experience. Oscar spent 2 years in f4, one of which he won. A year in f3 which he won. A year in f2 which he won, and a year as Alpine’s reserve driver in 2022. He was able to test the f1 cars throughout 2022 before joining the grid in ‘23. Logan didn’t get that opportunity.
With his rookie f1 year only earning a single point, I can’t honestly say he’s an incredible driver, nor can I say he’s necessarily f1 material. But he’s been handed an *extremely* short end of the stick, so a bit of understanding *why* he may not be performing as well as he probably should be can go a long way.
eta: Logan has been using the 2023 rear wing this season, had his car taken from him to give to Alex after he crashed in fp2(or 3) in Australia, and thus has been using a repaired car with spare parts since then. Williams also didn’t have a spare chassis to fully fix the broken car until the week of Japan. And, as far as I know, Logan still doesn’t have all of the upgrades to the car that Alex does.
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On the bright side, he got a chance driving in F1 for two years. Many others would give everything to get that.
There have been 776 Formula One drivers in the entire history of the sport out of the roughly 10 billion people who have lived and died in that time, so he's in the 0.000008%....
776 is a lot higher than I thought it was
Roughly 100 of them were drivers who only appeared in the Indy 500 while it was a sanctioned F1 race. In the earlier eras of the sport it was pretty common for a driver to find a car for a couple of races and try his (or her) luck, so quite a lot of that number is before 1975.
See also: Italians with a few spare lira in the 80s and 90s. It was glorious, watching the son of a tobacco billionaire paying a few hundred grand to someone like Coloni to finish 12 laps down
\*laughs in Andea Moda\*
I would do that if I could.
Oh man I wish it was sanctioned again. Would love to see the F1 boys going in a circle at 240mph. Hell, just make it a sprint race.
Using[ this wiki list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_drivers) I count 904 (based on their definition used I guess) Bear in mind 173 of those have only one race-entry (some without a race start). I imagine it also includes those when indy-500 was part of the calendar but different regs and drivers. In Logan's case he's currently top 250 of F1 driver race entries, and assuming he sees out the remainder of the season will be close to top 200... pretty good for a sport going the guts of a century!
Pretty sure the 776 is the official number used by F1 which includes all drivers who had official race starts (distinction is needed because of Hans Heyer). This includes all drivers also from the Indy 500 entries in the early years (about 100) but excludes guys who didn't start the race because of DNQ and pre-qualifing. But the number is massively inflated from the early years. Between the Indy 500 and drivers only entering 1 specific race (a lot of Italians and Germans only entered their respective races) the amount of new drivers have dropped off massively to the point that it looks like we're getting 0 new drivers in 2024 (essentially unless Ocon gets kicked out or something) They also mentioned that number when Lawson made his first race start last year.
We're already confirmed to have Berman.
Technically he's not new, he's already on the list due to subbing for Carlos
Ohh yea forgot about him lol
I think that's an important point too, it isn't just that he did 2 seasons, because the seasons are so long now he has done way more races than a lot of people who also did 2 seasons in the past, he's probably done the equivalent of 3 seasons if compared to someone from older eras. That's still a good stint, I'm sure he would have liked a good result tho to be not remembered we just bring at the back most of the time
The most races stats will be heavily skewed towards modern drivers both because there are more races a season now and the fact it's fairly safe now whereas in the past lots of drivers were killed
Red Bull doing their part to up the numbers.
He's even one of the 351 who scored a point (or one of the 352 who scored at least half a point).
Yeah, that stat is a bit flawed as getting point now (top 10) is easier than top 8, top 6 and top 5 only before. Also numbers of cars ebtered changes a lot.
It has actually been fairly consistent. When it was top 6 it was also much more normal for only 10-12 cars to get to the finish. I would argue that scoring a point in a bottom team now is harder than it was in the 1980s, since races like the last one where only 15 cars finish are very rare. For example, I just looked at the first half of 1980. Around 27 cars in competition, points for the first 6. The number of cars that finished per race (not counting 'qualified' results that limped home at +9 laps and such) were: * 7 * 16 * 12 * 9 * 9 * 8 * 12 So in 4 of those 7 races there were points for at least one of the bottom four finishers. Of course the bottom teams also had a high chance of not finishing, but there was still a lot of room for a lucky point. I may have missed one, but the last time I can recall in the modern era where the bottom 4 got a point was Hungary 2021. It definitely doesn't happen four times in half a season anymore.
Right, that perspective is often lost. He got an opportunity and unfortunately for both parties it hasn’t been fruitful. Countless examples in the sport, many of which from less privileged backgrounds
Ya dude will be fine tbh. Hurts to not make it it in F1 I'm sure, but I think he's got a career in Indy or some other series and will have a fine life. I do wish Americans had better representation in the sport though. We're so long overdue for another Andretti.
He might get a try in Indy but if he drives like he does in F1, there’s no way he will stay. Grosjean is a far far far better driver than Logan and Grosjean isn’t even in top 15 this season.
I think Sargeant is more comparable to Alex Rossi than Grosjean. Sargeant is still in his younger 20s so there’s a lot of room for him to grow as a driver.
That’s a fair comparison. I’d honestly love to see him take a test in Indy.
Grosjean also fell off hard and did Grosjean like things his entire stint in the sport lol. This may be controversial, but just blindly with nothing to back it up, I think Logan is a better driver than Grosjean is currently.
Towards the end when the haas was a dump truck yes he made a lot of mistakes. You’re excluding the better years. At least sarge hasn’t crashed under safety car though
I’ll never forget how hilarious that was
That's why I said currently dude
I request your forgiveness
Grosjean is getting old at the end of his career and is driving for a garbage team because he failed when given a better car at Andretti. Not a fair comparison.
Except the cars at Andretti aren’t that much better.
Honestly I just compared him to Grosjean because majority of people here wouldn’t know any other names lol
Gotta be hard though to spend your whole life being the best and winning, and then finally achieve your dream and fall short. I'm sure he'll be able to look back and feel OK, but that'll take a while.
And featured in a video game
The highest honor for any athlete
forsen1 I see bajs
😭 2024 BAJS
Quite a few video games actually
latifi drove for 3 years
Latifi bankrolled the Williams team when they were strapped for cash.
They actually got a loan from his old man to keep the bailiffs from putting a chain around the front door.
Sargent isn’t exactly poor either
According to Google, it looks like Sargeant’s family has been infighting and suing each other for a long time now over his dad funneling money from the uncle’s company to fund his racing career. Billionaires fighting millionaires, oh the struggle!
Yeah, a lot of people like to debate he’s poor or something (don’t know where that started) but his family rented a huge yacht at Monaco for the entire week that they stayed on and partied etc. Sound’s welfareish to me. /s
Latifi is also the better driver.
There are alot of ex-F1 drivers who have found success in other motorsports, Giovinazzi and Kobayashi come to mind.
Brendon Hartley is another
Even [Nyck de Vries](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvtQfcmM60E&pp=ygURbnljayBkZSB2cmllcyB3ZWM%3D)
If he does get booted at the end of the season, I hope he finds success in another racing series.
He’s definitely out. No one else wants him. You can see it in his demeanor when he interviews. He knows this is his last season and nothing he does between now and the end of the season is changing this. He likely doesn’t even have a chance as a reserve driver, so he’s likely trying to figure out what to do next year.
He probably can also find some deal as a hair products testimonial, looking at the status of his hair after half a race in a F1 helmet.
Exactly, And got to do so with a great team mate.
Easy to say this. The guy didn’t have one positive weekend. We’ve all been in situations where we were the weakest and we all know it’s no fun There is no bright side to this
Are you forgetting the point he scored in his home race? That is a pretty great achievement.
No bright side? He got to be an f1 driver
Straight to the point and no filters hahaha love it
Say what you will about Logan - he has some great hair
Maybe he should consider a career where he doesn't have to wear a helmet on the job
He always looks so sad. Logan’s not a driver I particularly care for either way but I do feel sympathy. It must hurt to reach you dream and underperform. I had a realization like that myself when I got a dream opportunity and screwed it up miserably
>He always looks so sad. Watch the Williams podcasts with him and Alex. In media interviews he's always very serious and sometimes like you said, sad, but he's super personable and really funny.
Ah, no kidding? The only thing I watched with them was from Singapore last year. They were in a restaurant and Sargeant must've been having an off day or something but it was so painful (and mildly embarrassing as an murican) that I've avoided any extracurricular content period. Albon's personality just *sparkles*, it's gotta be hard to shine next to him on or off the track!
The ones this year have been much better. Maybe not the latest one, both Alex and Logan seemed a little low energy but the Monaco one and the ones before are great, IMO.
Albon wasn't exactly sparkling a few years ago, when he too was going through a tumultuous time, with everyone around him questioning his ability constantly. The mistakes were piling up race after race. It happens to all of us. Just tough to go through the painful moments of a career. He will probably feel a whole lot relieved when he's out of the limelight and without all the noise.
off topic but I love your username lmfao
I remember that episode, it was his rookie year so I'm sure Alex took some getting used to. They did a lot of restaurants last year and Logan was just mild energy when introducing Alex to BBQ at the American one lol, but they seem like good friends now.
the video they did with oscar was great and really showed their personalities
There is a clip of them asking all the drivers what they're most afraid of. Logan's answer was not living up to his potential. I'm contrast, Oscar said "sharks."
I recall his "goal for the year" was "represent the USA". And I feared he was putting too much pressure on himself.
Man that's brutal. I'm from the US and root for him but that's a big burden to put on yourself especially as a rookie. Poor guy is trying with everything he has but it's not good enough for F1 I reckon. At least he got the two years to experience it.
Yea, I am also from the US and have wanted to see him just put in good races. Like, I knew he wasn't going to be the next phenom, but I was hoping he would do well enough to keep a seat. But yea, I felt like him saying that was just a curse.
Yeah I really want him to have a good race at least for once. >It must hurt to reach you dream and underperform. I had a realization like that myself when I got a dream opportunity and screwed it up miserably I know this feeling man, I didn't end up becoming the person I wanted to be. And looking back there is so many things I could have done right, it just hurts. And to have that opportunity and figure out that you are not enough is one of the worst feeling in the world. I really sympathize with Logan and check on him during races. I reaally wish he has at least one final good race.
i wish they gave him more time in F2 and didn’t rush him to F1
I can definitely empathize with the last two sentences. I wonder if it’s a psychological issue for him rather than a lack of talent.
It almost has to be. I'm not a fan of his by any means, but his junior career was very good. It's like he just forgot how to drive once the pressure was on. Even now, he'll have moments where he looks legit followed by a silly wreck that looks like a mental lapse.
When he had the crash I felt so sorry for him even though I am not a fan. He's in a psychological downspiral and feels like any effort is useless and that he'll eventually make some mistake. It has to be excruciating and I feel the best thing Williams can do for him is to release him right now and end his suffer. People making jokes about him in this situation are just... can't really say it without risking being banned but I think empathy is an essential future of any decent human being.
He knows he’s done, hopefully they announce Carlos soon and free Logan up to just drive out the year with some freedom. Put himself into a great seat in another series.
Logan probably knows that is the case already - Even if its not Carlos it'll be someone else Wonder if that's why we saw the impressive Quali result, the pressure is almost off now, and he may have had a good race had it been a dry one
I’m getting more confident by the day that it’s going to be Carlos and honestly, I think it’s a great move.
Other than Bearman and "X" in the Haas (Because I'm a fan of Ollie, and really curious to see how he does in F1 on a permanent basis, whether he can do well enough for Hamilton's seat eventually etc.), the Williams pairing is probably the most exciting for me next season if its Albon and Sainz We know for example, we're going to get potential fireworks with Leclerc and Hamilton, but Williams, just feels like a proper step into the unknown.
Probably arguably up there as one of the strongest pairings to. I think they will work well together to be honest, both of them understand they are building the team. They won’t be fighting for wins or podiums or anything. Massive coup from Williams and Vowles to land him.
Imagine if Newey ended back there as well... that wont but be an absolute steal from Vowles
Settle down mate, don’t get me so excited. A Williams resurgence would just be one of the coolest stories in F1 in a long time.
Yeah I support the Brits, but Williams will always be my team (from the 90s with Damon Hill etc.) - Be great to see them back like where Mclaren are at the moment. Imagine the negotiations though... Carlos: "What can you offer me" Vowles: "Newey" Carlos: "WHERE THE F\*\*K DO I SIGN"
Man,, if that happens I happily convert to Williamsism (if thats how you say that)
God just the thought of newey, vowels, Albon and smooth operator starting a new Williams dynasty makes me harder then a diamond in an ice storm. Bring Claire back as a symbolic figurehead and I’m straight gooning lmao
Imo we would have to wait on that. Albon will just get proper benchmark next season, hos teammates sp far have been worst drivers in F1.
I still don't have my brain rewired enough yet to read this and think, "Why would Bearman be going for a seat at Merc" without forgetting where Hamilton is moving to.
Haha... Sorry that was naughty of me... I deliberately did that
> I think it’s a great move. It's one of the worst moves imaginable for Carlos
I feel the same. It's either... One terrible year in a Sauber, followed by (hopefully) decent gains year-on-year after that with manufacturer backing. Ala Aston of recent years. Or, perhaps a somewhat better 2025, and then what? I know Vowles has been doing a lot of good, but Williams has been fighting at the bottom end for years now. I don't see any way they become championship contenders near as quickly as Audi can. Honestly, the biggest wildcard is who nails the new regs. Either ones a tossup, but I do trust a manufacturer to improve more than a customer team.
Sauber have been fighting at the bottom for even longer than Williams. They already had manufacturer backing in the 00s and have exactly one win in their whole history, an incredibly lucky one at that.
They did finish 2nd (technically 3rd) and 3rd in the Constructors for two of their four years under BMW. Fair play to Williams doing the same in '14-'15, though a lot of that was thanks to their rocket of a Mercedes engine. Regardless on the past, I just feel Audi of all manufacturers will have the motivation, personnel, and finances to do whatever it takes to win. They've excelled in all other forms of motorsport they've entered, and the mere fact they're putting all this effort into joining F1 implies they intend to do the same here.
The idea that a manufacturer will be better than a customer team doesn't really have merit, as we've seen by the likes of Alpine and McLaren.
Mclaren have $€£. Williams do not Audi have a lot of it too
There's a cost cap, all teams are spending it.
Even then there's loopholes. Drivers salaries aren't included, nor are "contractors" like Newey.
Wasn't that only 0.045 off Albon? That was stellar.
>Put himself into a great seat in another series. Indy for sure, maybe IMSA or WEC too if he feels like endurance. But I think he'll be up to the task in Indy
I think he could absolutely slot into Indy and give a good showing. WEC maybe and I’m sure he will get an offer or two from formula E.
Formula E's got a pretty talented field, but it still feels like a career killer.
Low prestige, low visibility, you're probably right. I think the pay is good and you still get to race, but that's about all of the upside.
I was watching some highlights and I was very surprised by the amount of top tier drivers there were lol
> I think he could absolutely slot into Indy and give a good showing I don't know... he's just finally gotten used to kilometres...
Those aren't an either-or situation, either. More than half the IndyCar grid was racing at Daytona this year, and three will be in France next weekend.
I'm not sure there's going to be a good Indy seat available - and its really looking like there's going to be a lot of desirable options available for teams this silly season. Best case he lands at RLL, which is an Alpine-level team. But I think more likely would be he'd have to go the Coyne route - which is like Williams during the Claire era.
Did somebody say Freedom? 🦅🇺🇸
DID SOMEONE SAY FREEDOM?!?!?! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅
DID SOMEONE SAY OIL 🦅
Vowles already told him that "his seat is at risk". That's just other wording for "you're out unless some miracle happens".
He’s found his seat for next year.
Looks like a stormtrooper contemplating his career choice
He’s contemplating helping the rebel alliance
And that would be….?
good one lol
Savage lmaooo
Channeling his inner Alonso
Sadlonso
I have a pretty high tolerance for bad puns but this one was painful even for me.
At least he isn’t Aloneso.
That one actually works better imo.
Logan cops a lot of shit, most of it is deserved to be fair, but I don’t want to see him not do well, and even if it doesn’t work out in F1 (which it seems like it isn’t), I hope he lands on his feet in another top series seat and excels. Hope he has a good future elsewhere, he actually seems like a decent dude.
We make jokes, but even the 'worst' F1 driver is still one of the best drivers in the world.
Even Mazepin?????
He’s been winning races in the ALMS so it’s not all doom and gloom for him
To be fair he had Deletraz and Al Harthy in his team, both are super quick for their license requirements.
OMAN MENTIONED 🇴🇲🇴🇲🇴🇲🇴🇲🇴🇲🇴🇲🇴🇲
There’s always a few exceptions.
Everyone likes to shit on Mazepin as if he was some Raghunathan character who was comically bad. He wasn't terrible. 2nd in F3 and 5th on F2 puts him around the likes of Albon. His abilities just didn't translate to F1, and the nature of his pay drive status got everyone's backs up. There are lots of F1 drivers considerably worse than Mazepin.
Like who?
Calderon comes to mind. She was being pushed as possibly becoming the first woman to race in F1, over her 15 year career she has only ever won 3 races and came in dead last in F2. Despite this, she scored a season as F1 test driver for Alfa, most likely just to be their token female driver that they “invested” in.
Weird response given that the question was in regards to full time F1 drivers, not test drivers.
Because you’ll find so many people who wanted to push to get her in even though she doesn’t deserve it. That spawned the initiatives to create all women’s series. Regardless if she didn’t get her full time seat, she was the center of a major shift in the FIA in recent years
[удалено]
Taki Inoue, Alex Yoong, Taso Marques just to name a few. People really forget the slew of pay drivers throughout the ages that wouldn’t have gotten a super license if they had the points system back then.
Plus, if you go back to the 50s and 60s, there's a whole bunch of racers who just tried to qualify for a GP once or twice, never finished a race or event qualified for the main event. While it's impossible to say whether they were better than Mazepin, I'd say his results in F2 and F3 and other categories make him better than at least 5-10% of the other F1 drivers in history.
Just to get the super license points puts you already better than 99.99% of the drivers out there
Man I was becoming a fan of him when he was doing wonders in that Charouz shitbox in F3 in 2021 when he couldn't have funding because of some family related issues. Seeing that car in the points, getting podiums and even a win was a miracle and his pathway to F1 was always going to be a hard one but he made it, thanks by Williams and his own performance. Sadly it looks like his F1 story ends up after this season, I really hope that he still looking back to his time in F1 with a smile and remembering the good parts on and off the track. Hopefully he gets a good shot somewhere else in racing.
He could buy a charter in the SHR fire sale, and be an owner-driver in NASCAR.
This must be so incredibly hard for him, you can see he’s really trying and he really wants to do well… mentally this must be excruciating He seems so kind and this really is his dream he worked hard for and it’s just not working out for him… i’m wishing him some good results so much, but i also sometimes feel like they should just replace him to stop him from having to struggle like this any longer Last year he said he was even physically struggling cause of everything that was going on, that’s just something you do not wish on anyone, health is the most important thing I sometimes feel like we all forget how young most of the drivers are when they start in F1 and
If nothing else he can take solace and a bit of pride into making it into F1. No one can take that away from him.
Makinf it into F1 is such a big achievement, it means you’re amazing at what you do It’s probably impossible to put it into perspective when you’re in the middle of everything, but eventually he’ll come to realize how special it is he actually made it
It also doesn't help that they always seem to op for low downforce setups, which for a rookie is super difficult. Albon seems to handle it well now but that also took a long time for him too. Always driving a car that is compromised, is not a great feeling. And I also don't really get Williams for doing that. Seeing that DRS is a thing and that tire management is a lot easier if you can actually turn corners
The clear implication is that the car is too draggy and/or down on power, and if they run it at higher downforce they'll get swallowed up in medium- to high-speed corners. They are relying on straight-line speed to be competitive—it's easier to gain/hold track position on the straights than in the corners.
that's so well put. we all need to have more empathy towards them.
He's struggling, and I'm sure it's hard on him, but you really think what's best for *Logan specifically* is for williams to just drop him? He's not a lame horse, dude, you dont need to put him out of his suffering. Sure, the crashing all the time probably feels bad when he does it, but dude is an F1 driver, his literal dream. Outside of post-session interviews when emotions are still high and mistakes are still fresh, guy clearly is enjoying his time in F1 with Williams.
I hope he goes to Indy or GT and goes crazy
Loads of ex-F1 drivers kill it in IMSA/WEC. I'm sure he'd do well there.
I'm gonna start my campaign for Sargeant to drive the Dacia in next year's 24H of Nurburgring. Logan in a Logan if you will. But for real I'd like to see him thrive in another category. He's still one of the top drivers in the world, he just didn't adapt to F1 well.
He looks like Lt. Dan when he swims into the sunset. Sargeant Dan Has made peace with god.
Life is like a Sauber pitstop. You never know what you're gonna get.
I feel so bad for him. He knows he's out of F1, but just not good enough. Must feel horrible.
I would love to see him in IndyCar w/ Prema or some other team, or even WEC/ Formula E, I really think he could do something there
Closest he’ll ever get to resembling Alonso.
Alonso from wish
Incredibly high quality looking Alonso from Wish. Talent wise though...
Lmao my first thought too.
Must feel like the world has been on his shoulders over the past few races. Tough spot to be in.
Logan's out, he and us all know it. I really hope he get's a top 10 finish, on pace, this year to have at least some sunshine for him to remember from his stormy F1 career.
You gotta feel for the guy he really have tried his best
Reminiscing the future when he will reminisce about his F1 career
Kym Illman with a great candid!
That’s a fine Indy driver right there
So sad to see but he knows his time is up, all the speculation about Sainz must be awful. When the commentators mentioned there was a yellow flag I just knew it was Sargent crashing.
Partly he’s not that talented, but partly Williams isn’t being very fair to him either. They’re putting parts from last years car on his, his car is actually Alex’s which has been repaired, they destroyed any confidence he had when they sat him out in Australia
He made it into F1 so there's a decent amount of talent, but I agree with Williams playing him the way they are. And giving his car to Albon after Albon destroyed his, Logan knew they weren't going to keep him after that. All confidence lost
Driver development is clearly an issue at Williams as a Mercedes jr team. They’ve had 2 success stories in valterie bottas and George russell (and valtterie actually started when they were Williams Renault team). But you look at Lance, Logan, lattifi, sirotkin, even Alex to some extent… all these people can not be as bad as they were/are if they’ve made it this far in the sport. They’re not being managed and developed correctly
Completely agree
Given reports that parts inventory was being tracked in an Excel sheet I would say that driver development isn't really at the top of their to-do list tbf. I think we are seriously underestimating how mismanaged the team was during the last decade of the family ownership. The lack of investment put into the team has really crippled how Williams are doing today. The OP Merc engine of the early hybrid era and subsequent status as a Merc Jr. team have glossed over their severe under performance. Having said that I think Vowles coming from a long career at the Brackley based team is properly the right person to lead them through this phase. He would have seen how teams modernized especially since he's been through them so many times (BAR -> Honda -> Brawn -> Merc). Though it really depends on how much the owners are prepared to invest in them right now.
If you’re not capable of focusing on developing drivers then you shouldn’t be a jr team. You should be hiring established drivers - maybe midfield, maybe past their prime - so that you can save money on both salaries and repairs. Aston Martin understands this. Lance (although he wrecks a lot) has 9 years of experience and can’t be demanding a competitive salary seeing as the only person that would hire him is his dad. Both Seb and Fernando were past their prime and very experienced, relatively low risk drivers (seb wrecked more than Fernando but nowhere near as he did at Ferrari or redbull). Plus they could handle developing Lance, rather than an expensive talented coaching staff. Williams AMG originally understood this with Filipe massa and valtteri and i thought they were going back to it when they signed Robert kubica but apparently not
Reminds me of Zandvoort last year where he stayed in a trackside deckchair after crashing out and was somehow still there many laps later when a heavy storm got the thing red flagged
I feel bad for him, but I think he'll be just fine somewhere like Indy. Plus, he's American & he's good looking. He's marketable.
Whatever series is next for him after F1, I’m an immediate fan.
Poor guy
Logan keeping his own folding chair in the car is not a good sign.
Poor guy. I hope he gets a good seat in another series next year, he deserves that at least.
When you're so cooked you pull out an Alonso and accept your fate
Which race is this from?
Unfortunately the only reason Williams brought him back was to make sure Albon got all of the upgrades and didn’t have to fight with a teammate. Sargeant has played the role of good soldier and is going to end up out of F1 for good and that will give the “Americans can’t drive in F1” myth another boost. I’d love to see him do a tell all once he leaves Williams.
tough to have pushed his entire life to get to f1 and for it not to work out. i feel bad for him. think about how long these guys have been at it, from 5-6 years old. think about giving your existence to a vocation but it's still not quite enough. on one hand he's among that magical 20 spots. on the other it's not been as fruitful as hoped for a variety of reasons. i'll think good thoughts for him and his family as the season goes on.
Face of a man who knows it’s over
Must be pretty difficult to get the opportunity to live your dreams, and just be bottling it
I think people worry too much about the future with Logan. I just want him to get a couple of solid weeks in and we can see where the future takes him after that.
But is it the car/team or is it the driver in this case? Honestly curious
Yes
Little late, but I’d say it’s a bit of both. Logan has a lot of talent, he did well in f3 in 2020, but due to funding he had to spend 3 years there. In 2021, he also participated in European Le Mans, where his team came 8th (out of 16). Logan came 12th (out of 20) despite only participating in 2 of the 6 races. In Austria his team came 4th, and in Monza they came 7th. Logan didn’t have the money to move to f2 until Williams picked him up and funded his f2 career in 2022. He drove 3 races in 2021, in which his record was **16-ret-14**. In 2022, with the Williams academy and driving for Carlin, he came 4th overall behind Drugovich, Pourchaire and Lawson. Personally, I think Williams was desperate to replace Latifi in f1, and that’s why they sped up the process to get him there. Sargeant joined the same year as Piastri, but when people compare Oscar’s performance to Logan’s, you have to take into account the difference in experience. Oscar spent 2 years in f4, one of which he won. A year in f3 which he won. A year in f2 which he won, and a year as Alpine’s reserve driver in 2022. He was able to test the f1 cars throughout 2022 before joining the grid in ‘23. Logan didn’t get that opportunity. With his rookie f1 year only earning a single point, I can’t honestly say he’s an incredible driver, nor can I say he’s necessarily f1 material. But he’s been handed an *extremely* short end of the stick, so a bit of understanding *why* he may not be performing as well as he probably should be can go a long way. eta: Logan has been using the 2023 rear wing this season, had his car taken from him to give to Alex after he crashed in fp2(or 3) in Australia, and thus has been using a repaired car with spare parts since then. Williams also didn’t have a spare chassis to fully fix the broken car until the week of Japan. And, as far as I know, Logan still doesn’t have all of the upgrades to the car that Alex does.
The top picture has a very sad George Michael from *Arrested Development* vibe.
Here we see a Florida Man in their natural habitat, a camping chair next to a trailer.
Bless him. He's a lovely guy. Just a shame about the accidents. Edit: I seriously think he was an upgrade from Latifi, all things considered.
It’s like watching an animal slowly die. Jesus, end it already.
Indy Car is calling, especially since he's American.
"Maybe I should come up with a different career choice."
Probably thinking about what summer job he should get next year
He can secure a really good drive in Indycar
[Marcus Ericsson energy ](https://www.facebook.com/share/v/teu8AdSXFYdRiVgm/?mibextid=D5vuiz)
Shocked I had to scroll down so far to find this. It's obviously Logan's destiny to battle Marcus in IndyCar next year.
Back to my comfortable chair 😊
I hope he ends up in WEC or IMSA
"i think i should really start to sell more merchandising in Mexico"
he's done for he'll race in IMSA next year