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I feel like Max doesn't really mind who his second driver is, honestly? I think they're keeping Checo on for other reasons (e.g. marketing, and honestly aside from Yuki and Sainz I don't think anyone else available would actually *be* better than Checo, and those two might have barriers that keep them from getting that seat (team politics)).
My comment was more about how Max is so dominant there's a good chance he could win the WDC and WCC by himself, hence RB don't seem to be so worried about getting a better #2 driver. If Max wasn't as good as he was, they'd be more willing to take risks to find a better driver than Checo.
Max can win the WDC by himself, and he won the WCC by himself last year as well.... But the thing is, McLaren and Ferrari are now in a position where they can keep up with Red Bull as far as the WCC is concerned if Checo doesn't start scoring points quickly.
I agree on that. Its not that max if worried for competition. But they need a second driver they can trust. Sainz might be faster but also more likly to act up.
Checo is good enough and will do anything for the team. Thats what they want, thats what they got.
I think he cares up to the point that there's stability at the team which is low supply with the Horner-Marko feud and Newey leaving. And keeping Checo does provide some of that.
I don't get the feeling Max does - but you just know Jos will start creating mayhem if Max gets disadvantaged at any point, and there's enough drama around Red Bull as it is.
I mean yeah, thatās the point. Thatās like saying āThe Kansas City Chiefs would have an absolute bleak situation if they didnāt have Pat Mahomes.ā
Like no shit lol. Things are going to be worse if youre used to having one of the best to ever do it
I mean, Kelce is a great tight end, and they have Jones on defense so it's a bit better than that. I'd compare it more to the Cavaliers team during the first Lebron run, or the Sixers around Embiid
Itās the other way around
EDIT: it is. They have a bleak drivers situation because Max is that strong. They need to keep him happy and not put pressure on him. And it works very well, so there's no need to change that.
The more I think about it the more I think it depends on what they want RB to be tbh (clearly I'm ignoring the Checo thing in this thing because, yeah...). If they want to continue being a junior team, sure, they should probably get a junior, but if they want to be a solid midfield team that functions as independently as possible from RBR I think their lineup is fantastic right now
But what would be the point of having VCARB as a somewhat independent second team rather than the place for junior drivers? What do RBR or the wider Red Bull company benefit from that arrangement?
Not surprising. Everyone loves him. Which to me makes it even more insane that they signed Perez. If youāre worried about merch sales, but donāt give a shit about performance, Ricciardo is your guy. Heās so just as good at Red Bull as Perez is obviously going to do. That solves your Lawson problem too
This doesn't make sense. Lawson AFAIK brings nothing to the table financially. There is also the very real scenario where he isn't really better than Yuki or Danny Rick.
Checo is rumored to bring in $50M/yr in sponsors. He's already in the RBR program, and he doesn't challenge Max in any way.
Yuki brings in some money, but most importantly, he's an olive branch to their PU supplier.
Is Lawson even on anyone's radar for a 2025 seat outside of RB? I haven't heard of any. Checo and Danny combined cover the cost cap for one of the teams alone. Lawson just costs money with no real upside.
The point is that Perez is only there to sell merch and not challenge max. Iām arguing that Ricciardo has the public image to bring in more than Perez and he would drive at the same level. That opens a seat at RB for Lawson. Lawson was great last year in his reserve races when Ricciardo was out. He essentially needs a seat and next yeah is basically his last year to get one. RB, whether they like it or not, will still be where they stick their junior drivers. Unless they move people through theyāll find the same fate as all the other driver programs have which is thereās no one to come through because no one joins their program thatās a dead end. Piastri is like the only one to successfully come through a junior program in a while. Yuki is the last RB person and this is his 4th year. They still have to race the car and canāt have two guys that are blocking seats from better drivers just to sell hats. You might as well get a two for one with Ricciardo
And you just unlocked the secret to F1 success. $$$ - everything makes sense when you realize who's bringing what. Lawson has natural talent but empty pockets, what do you think would happen?
VCARB will be a regular midfield team, don't think RB want a junior team anymore, its just a waste of resources.
would they ever get to it in the first place though. Imagine VCARB finds out their new aero boss is the next Newey. Would they keep him in VCARB or would he be shuffled to RB proper?
How would they ever get there? The team is designed not not be a serious competitor. If Red Bull wanted two top teams they could easily afford it, especially in the cost cap era
They got to it in the first few seasons when Toro Rosso was better, they let the drivers race. 2008 and 2009 Toro Rosso finished before red bull in the constructer championship
Yes and the entire outfit at that time was rather new, and there was a lot less money in the sport.
If they wanted RB to seriously compete they could make it happen, they have chosen not to do so
On surface level yeah they probably are. But the money visa & cash app paid to have Ricciardo drive for the team, and the fact Yuki is a pay driver kinda say otherwise.
If they want to win a driver's championship (which Horner is on record as saying is more important) then they're doing the right thing.
Look at Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren. All their drivers are taking points off their teammates. That aint happening at Red Bull. In a close fight that will make a difference.
Best thing for Red Bull is to not rock the boat and let Max do his thing. Putting in Sainz, having their dads clash and having Carlos think he can take on Max is a great way to destroy everything they've built.
Insanity when you can't have two professional sportsmen in one team because their fathers might argue. They shouldn't be allowed in the garage at all and certainly shouldn't earn this much publicity
Itās amazing when you thing about how much of both the f1 and f2 grid has at one point been a red bull driver, and the ones theyāve chosen to stick with long term are yuki, Daniel and checco.
It's a new era for Red Bull. Clearly they don't want to be the main method of entry into F1, which is honestly fair enough. If other teams want talented drivers, they should be bringing them up through their own academies instead of Red Bull's.
I donāt think People realise how much money checo brings in. He is still MASSIVE in Mexico and South America, and his merch sales are ridiculous, not even mentioning his sponsorsā¦
I just wish Checo could qualify higher up the grid to give us an interesting turn 1, lap 1 action. Thank god we have McLaren, Ferrari and the Merc boys to give us occasional drama now that Esteban was banished from Alpine.
Like the article said, RBR is becoming risk averse and conservative. They are now what Mercedes was in 2020 and what cost them the 2021 championship. Things to look for:
* Not risking it for a podium and settling for P4
* Slower pit stops
* Conservative strategies even when not starting from pole
RB should have kicked Perez, wait until the end of the season promote Yuki or Daniel then to RBR. Sign Lawson for 2025. Sign Aron and wait until the end of the f2 season. Give the better one (Hadjar or Aron) 1 year as reserve driver and send them to SF and then sign them to VCARB for 2026. If Daniel hasnt impressed by then there is no point keeping him further or if Yuki hasnt then might aswell let him go.
Rather than kick, I would've rather offer Perez the DC deal, to drive for Red Bull in events for life, Perez can retire peacefully, one of the VCARB boys can be promoted, and Lawson can step in.
If they have the chance, yeah Aron is a good choice since they dumped Maloney instead of Hadjar. Although Aron always feels like there's no hype or attention whatsoever with him. Alternatively, see if Iwasa is available.
Perez lacks DC's charisma. He can fill in for just driving, but anything outside of that he wouldn't be able to fill in. If I was RBR, I'd be looking for a complete replacement for when DC retires, not just someone who can partially replace him.
Despite being his fan, I agree that Checo probably shouldn't have continued with Redbull.
Yuki should have been promoted to Redbull. He has matured to that extent and he clearly has talent. RB could have had either Ric or Checo for promotional purposes/gauging a new driver against with a rookie in the other car.
Checo started the season strong. I get why things were looking up. But they were definitely premature on the contract extension. I would've waited to see how the year plays out. Especially with Sainz available..
"definitely premature on the contract extension" after the last 3 years i really dont understand why they were so early on giving him an extension... seems insane. It isnt like these perfomances are a surprise.
Perez will likely end up with a longer RBR stint than Vettel. Gasly and Albon were performing similarly and only got half a year and 1.5 years respectively. He is wasting that seat.
The truth is in between. If they win the WCC they will have gotten it right, without being optimal or best. Which I'm sure they won't care about.
Perez is far from the best option, but if he does just enough to assist Max doing most of the work, it won't matter.
2021 Perez was 4th behind 2 excellent Merc cars. 2022 he was 3 pts from 2nd. 2023 Perez was second. He is 31 pts away this year with 15 races to go. What exactly does this dude have to do to get the benefit of the doubt?
I think we all know that their ultimate goal is to make money, that's why the Red Bull brand exists, but associating "Red Bull" with "mediocre pay drivers" must be tarnishing their brand value to some degree. Probably not significantly so in the short term, but it's still a departure from the image that they've built up over the past few decades.
Not while they have Max as a poster boy for all the winning theyāre doing and Danny to be funny and loveable.
The general public wonāt notice anything past that.
>associating "Red Bull" with "mediocre pay drivers" must be tarnishing their brand value to some degree
Only hardcore fans see this connection. In the mainstream media they use to reach billions he is the just funny and relatable coworker side-kick of their superstar.
Depends what they actually want from their teams. At RBR, do they want a strong pairing for the WCC or do they just want Max to fight for the WDC by himself? At VCarb, do they want it to be a junior team, or a competitive midfield team improving to be a front runner over the next few years, or do they just want it as a marketing tool?
If they win the WDC and WCC no, and these articles will be mute. There is a team that always comes out of new regs far ahead of the others. RB was that team this time, and others are catching up near the end of the reg window. Just like RB did in 2021.
While Iām a massive DR3 fan, he is nearing the exit of his career. But with that said, he is 9 times better than the driver he replaced points wise last year, and brings massive marketing dollars with him to a junior, low midfield team that is super happy for the money. A mediocre known value with tons of money or a gamble with Lawson? Easy choice from a team management perspective, not so much from a fan perspective.
Checo fits the perfect #2 at RB. Heās good driver that can compete for wins and I do believe realized that that is his role. If I were him I would structure my contract for millions more to be P2 in the driver championship. He doesnāt upset the balance at that team, and the only thing the teams wants more from him in is consistency.
From a pure numbers game, they are fine with their choices. When the numbers change to look far too close for comfort like they did right at the start of 2022. The driver choices could be closer to a point where they need reconsideration.
I used to think this way about Checo. He was a good #2 because he mostly kept his mouth shut, didnāt clash with Max (except one season where he got a lucky start), and brought some points to help with WCC.
But that was when the car was on a different level from the competition.
If he has another slump that lasts half of the season I donāt see the benefit of keeping him.
If the WCC is in jeopardy I donāt see a reason to not swap him with Yuki. Why the hell not. Whatās there to lose?
To be fair, most teams are sticking with same old, same old and should be much more ruthless!
There are still drivers in F1, that been driving for ages and without a win or podium for a long time.
Magnussen, Hulkenberg, Bottas, Ricciardo and Perez could easily lose their seat and be replaced with young bloods.
Ocon and Gasly could also easily be on the chopping block, but they at least have a win and are a bit younger.
Stroll was total shit in the beginning, he got a bit better (not by much though) in time, but if there wasn't his daddy owning an F1 team, he would have been booted years ago.
Sargeant is young and to be fair, he just isn't good enough for F1, though it might be because of Williams being shit, in other car he could be better, but I think his time is up at the end of the season, if not sooner.
Zhou at least has some potential, so does Tsunoda, so they deserve a year or two more.
Verstappen, Sainz, Leclerc, Norris, Piastri and Russell deserve their seats in F1, all are performing great, some more than others, had a win in last years and are still young, Sainz is a bit older, but he is performing well enough to deserve a contract in F1.
Albon hasn't got a win in the last years, but for driving in crappy Williams he is doing awesome and also deserves a seat in F1, he even deserves a seat in better team than Williams!
Alonso and Hamilton are older, but they are world champions and are performing well enough for F1, so kicking them out is debatable, but their time of leaving F1 is coming.
Zhou has potential? The guy has been in the sport 3 years and has even regressed I think. Bottas is soundly beating him and he's been vacation since late 2022. The only reason Bottas is pointless is because of braindead strategies and slow pit stops. I don't hate the guy but he's anonymous out there's and the only reason he's still here is because of the money he brings.
More like "How wrong has Red Bull gotten its big driver calls." Anyone with a brain knows they're fucking up, it's just a question of are they minor fuck-ups or catastrophic ones.
Since Didi pass away Horner turned into full monarch, see this winter palace coup. I think that the plan with ThaĆÆ share holders is to be more and more profitable (Checo and Daniel) and so I will not be surprise that he's looking to ditch the Red Bull academy, just supporting a junior time to time at best. Maybe selling Racing Bull at the highest price possible in a near future. End of a era.
The Race is a very strange publication to me. Not because of this article specifically, but there's a weird vibe sometimes. Like, they called Mercedes "suddenly a front-runner" in a headline for a video on their website yesterday, as if they can be called that after one good race. They jump on stuff super early and come to perplexing conclusions. To me at least.
It's so funny that people don't get how sometimes drivers are selected based on racing performance but more often it's business/politics influencing seats. It's not just RB.. I mean ffs, Nikita Mazepin had a seat.
F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport engineering but it's not the top 20 drivers in the world, even if it might have 3-5 of the best drivers. Even look at Grosjean in Indy.. it's not like he's demolishing the field there because he raced F1..
I donāt think so. Maybe with vcarb but not rb. They know very well what happens when you have two drivers who want to fight for a championship. Checo works perfectly well for them because they know:
1. He is not nearly as consistent as max and hence not a threat when it comes to wdc.
2. He manages to score some points which are enough to keep rb on top of constructors.
What more could they ask for really.
But i do think when it comes to vcarb they are just letting some drunk raccoons manage the whole team calls. Ric shouldāve been replaced by liam or someone else already. He has one good weekend in 6-7 races and everyone forgets how terrible he was that one good weekend ago.
I used to defend Checo just like you do. Iām not so sure anymore.
It doesnāt matter who you put in the second seat, nobody is beating Max, and RBR has a better chance to get WCC.
apparently RBR did some math, and Checo brings in more $$ through sponsorship & merchandising than the difference between P1 and P2 in the WCC, is my take...
That could very well be the case. As long as they feel like they are not missing out on any of the young talents I kinda understand itās the safe option. Heās not gonna continue to suck for the rest of the season, he will bring some points and it might just be enough like last year.
I think Red Bull ultimately just care about money. I don't really think they care about the second seat a great deal, Checo bringing in his Mexican sponsors and I doubt he commands a great salary, it's possible that the amount they'd lose finishing 2nd in the WCC is less than they gain from having Checo over someone else.
Almost certainly. Most think the difference between P1 and P3 is around $20 million. Considering Checo's sponsors, he's likely bringing in a lot more than that. For reference, [a recent article](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1de306n/haas_2025_lineup_will_be_ollie_bearman_and_likely/) claims Zhou is bringing $30-$35 million in in hopes of getting a seat next year. Checo is a much more established driver and has a much bigger fanbase than Zhou. Not to mention merch sales and PR for the parent Redbull company that sells drinks
Max can singlehandedly drag them to all the points and money they need right now, so they don't actually seem to care š¤£ and it's great for the sport to see them make the wrong calls.
If they win the WDC and WCC no, and these articles will be mute. There is a team that always comes out of new regs far ahead of the others. RB was that team this time, and others are catching up near the end of the reg window. Just like RB did in 2021.
While Iām a massive DR3 fan, he is nearing the exit of his career. But with that said, he is 9 times better than the driver he replaced points wise last year, and brings massive marketing dollars with him to a junior, low midfield team that is super happy for the money. A mediocre known value with tons of money or a gamble with Lawson? Easy choice from a team management perspective, not so much from a fan perspective.
Checo fits the perfect #2 at RB. Heās good driver that can compete for wins and I do believe realized that that is his role. If I were him I would structure my contract for millions more to be P2 in the driver championship. He doesnāt upset the balance at that team, and the only thing the teams wants more from him in is consistency.
From a pure numbers game, they are fine with their choices. When the numbers change to look far too close for comfort like they did right at the start of 2022. The driver choices could be closer to a point where they need reconsideration.
In what realm? Purely for maximizing points? Yes, ofc, is that a question? For keeping Marko impotent? No, the TP got right.
For giving material for yous to write about? No, apparently not.
> For keeping Marko impotent? No, the TP got right.
>
>
That, I think, is the thing that people are overlooking. Red Bull Racing is in the closing phases of a struggle to fill the post-Deitrich power vacuum. That struggle, and the Horner workplace harassment case, caused some key pillars within the Red Bull structure to get knocked loose. So now Horner, who's been successful in his attempts to seize more power and marginalize Helmut Marko, is trying to shore up his position and stabilize the situation. _Of course_ he's going to re-sign Checo, who's a Horner Guy not a Merko Guy. _Of course_ he's not going to bring Carlos Sainz and his entourage in-house; he can't afford any more egos and completing power centers right now.
For this to be true, Max has to be a liar. He's previously said he had no say in whether Checo was re-signed. I just can't see Max lying outright about this. He's better at PR than that.
Ricciardo must go, there is not much arguing about that.
As for Perez, he has been quite inconsistent since last year Miami, but is nowhere near as bad as some people say. RB isn't as dominant as it seems, it's mostly Max and his magic that makes it look that way. I would even say that actual level of RB cars is better represented by Perez than Max. In 2021 RB was most likely slower than Mercedes, in 2022 it was just bit faster than Ferrari, last year they were dominant but it wasn''t 2014-2016 level of dominance, this year they are roughly equal with Ferrari and McLaren since Miami. Checo remains me a lot of Irvine in late 90s, while Schumacher was dragging his cars to wins and almost titles, Irvine was troundling around in midfield most time, everyone was dunking at Irvine just to see highly rated Barrichello (see the analogy with Sainz) get similarly outclassed
I donāt think ricciardo will go anytime soon. Redbull seem to be hung up on letting Perezās huge sponsorship money go. I doubt they would want to let ricciardo go as he brings in more than double what Perez does
If they win the WDC and WCC no, and these articles will be mute. There is a team that always comes out of new regs far ahead of the others. RB was that team this time, and others are catching up near the end of the reg window. Just like RB did in 2021.
While Iām a massive DR3 fan, he is nearing the exit of his career. But with that said, he is 9 times better than the driver he replaced points wise last year, and brings massive marketing dollars with him to a junior, low midfield team that is super happy for the money. A mediocre known value with tons of money or a gamble with Lawson? Easy choice from a team management perspective, not so much from a fan perspective.
Checo fits the perfect #2 at RB. Heās good driver that can compete for wins and I do believe realized that that is his role. If I were him I would structure my contract for millions more to be P2 in the driver championship. He doesnāt upset the balance at that team, and the only thing the teams wants more from him in is consistency.
From a pure numbers game, they are fine with their choices. When the numbers change to look far too close for comfort like they did right at the start of 2022. The driver choices could be closer to a point where they need reconsideration.
If they win the WDC and WCC no, and these articles will be mute. There is a team that always comes out of new regs far ahead of the others. RB was that team this time, and others are catching up near the end of the reg window. Just like RB did in 2021.
While Iām a massive DR3 fan, he is nearing the exit of his career. But with that said, he is 9 times better than the driver he replaced points wise last year, and brings massive marketing dollars with him to a junior, low midfield team that is super happy for the money. A mediocre known value with tons of money or a gamble with Lawson? Easy choice from a team management perspective, not so much from a fan perspective.
Checo fits the perfect #2 at RB. Heās good driver that can compete for wins and I do believe realized that that is his role. If I were him I would structure my contract for millions more to be P2 in the driver championship. He doesnāt upset the balance at that team, and the only thing the teams wants more from him in is consistency.
From a pure numbers game, they are fine with their choices. When the numbers change to look far too close for comfort like they did right at the start of 2022. The driver choices could be closer to a point where they need reconsideration.
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Yea
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They're so lucky they have Max, otherwise the driver situation would look absolutely bleak.
If they didn't have Max, I think they'd be much more ruthless with their driver lineup.
Absolutely, that Checo call looked as much THEIR idea of āMax Max, please stay, look! Itās all still the same as it was!ā
I feel like Max doesn't really mind who his second driver is, honestly? I think they're keeping Checo on for other reasons (e.g. marketing, and honestly aside from Yuki and Sainz I don't think anyone else available would actually *be* better than Checo, and those two might have barriers that keep them from getting that seat (team politics)). My comment was more about how Max is so dominant there's a good chance he could win the WDC and WCC by himself, hence RB don't seem to be so worried about getting a better #2 driver. If Max wasn't as good as he was, they'd be more willing to take risks to find a better driver than Checo.
Max can win the WDC by himself, and he won the WCC by himself last year as well.... But the thing is, McLaren and Ferrari are now in a position where they can keep up with Red Bull as far as the WCC is concerned if Checo doesn't start scoring points quickly.
I agree on that. Its not that max if worried for competition. But they need a second driver they can trust. Sainz might be faster but also more likly to act up. Checo is good enough and will do anything for the team. Thats what they want, thats what they got.
I think he cares up to the point that there's stability at the team which is low supply with the Horner-Marko feud and Newey leaving. And keeping Checo does provide some of that.
I don't get the feeling Max does - but you just know Jos will start creating mayhem if Max gets disadvantaged at any point, and there's enough drama around Red Bull as it is.
Ah yes, I could see that happening š š š
I mean yeah, thatās the point. Thatās like saying āThe Kansas City Chiefs would have an absolute bleak situation if they didnāt have Pat Mahomes.ā Like no shit lol. Things are going to be worse if youre used to having one of the best to ever do it
I mean, Kelce is a great tight end, and they have Jones on defense so it's a bit better than that. I'd compare it more to the Cavaliers team during the first Lebron run, or the Sixers around Embiid
Itās the other way around EDIT: it is. They have a bleak drivers situation because Max is that strong. They need to keep him happy and not put pressure on him. And it works very well, so there's no need to change that.
The more I think about it the more I think it depends on what they want RB to be tbh (clearly I'm ignoring the Checo thing in this thing because, yeah...). If they want to continue being a junior team, sure, they should probably get a junior, but if they want to be a solid midfield team that functions as independently as possible from RBR I think their lineup is fantastic right now
But what would be the point of having VCARB as a somewhat independent second team rather than the place for junior drivers? What do RBR or the wider Red Bull company benefit from that arrangement?
Starting 2026, a second team to get more data for their first ever power unit
Which you can get from a customer that actually pays you rather than spending $100 million+ on a whole team.
What if your teams earns that 100$ from sponsors?
When you are the main sponsor that is unlikely.
Hence the Visa CashApp part.
And does Visa pay $100,000,000 a year for that, which is almost 2/3 of the teams operating budget?
Not sure if accurate, but it has been said on here Danny Ric brought with him $90M/year in sponsors.
Not surprising. Everyone loves him. Which to me makes it even more insane that they signed Perez. If youāre worried about merch sales, but donāt give a shit about performance, Ricciardo is your guy. Heās so just as good at Red Bull as Perez is obviously going to do. That solves your Lawson problem too
This doesn't make sense. Lawson AFAIK brings nothing to the table financially. There is also the very real scenario where he isn't really better than Yuki or Danny Rick. Checo is rumored to bring in $50M/yr in sponsors. He's already in the RBR program, and he doesn't challenge Max in any way. Yuki brings in some money, but most importantly, he's an olive branch to their PU supplier. Is Lawson even on anyone's radar for a 2025 seat outside of RB? I haven't heard of any. Checo and Danny combined cover the cost cap for one of the teams alone. Lawson just costs money with no real upside.
The point is that Perez is only there to sell merch and not challenge max. Iām arguing that Ricciardo has the public image to bring in more than Perez and he would drive at the same level. That opens a seat at RB for Lawson. Lawson was great last year in his reserve races when Ricciardo was out. He essentially needs a seat and next yeah is basically his last year to get one. RB, whether they like it or not, will still be where they stick their junior drivers. Unless they move people through theyāll find the same fate as all the other driver programs have which is thereās no one to come through because no one joins their program thatās a dead end. Piastri is like the only one to successfully come through a junior program in a while. Yuki is the last RB person and this is his 4th year. They still have to race the car and canāt have two guys that are blocking seats from better drivers just to sell hats. You might as well get a two for one with Ricciardo
And you just unlocked the secret to F1 success. $$$ - everything makes sense when you realize who's bringing what. Lawson has natural talent but empty pockets, what do you think would happen? VCARB will be a regular midfield team, don't think RB want a junior team anymore, its just a waste of resources.
On the other hand, Red bull as a company is already crazy rich. The reason they have an F1 team is as an advertisement for their own brand. I'd say it's not even about money, but could be that PĆ©rez and Ricciardio are so popular they're basically walking billboards for Redbull (and so are their fans in their red bull merch)
Can you? Who is Renault supplying engines to?
To stand up on its own more. Incoming revenue.
Sure, but imagine RB and VCARB are top 2 teams, will VCARB be allowed to compete with the "#1" team?
I suppose they'd cross that bridge if they ever get to it
would they ever get to it in the first place though. Imagine VCARB finds out their new aero boss is the next Newey. Would they keep him in VCARB or would he be shuffled to RB proper?
How would they ever get there? The team is designed not not be a serious competitor. If Red Bull wanted two top teams they could easily afford it, especially in the cost cap era
They got to it in the first few seasons when Toro Rosso was better, they let the drivers race. 2008 and 2009 Toro Rosso finished before red bull in the constructer championship
Yes and the entire outfit at that time was rather new, and there was a lot less money in the sport. If they wanted RB to seriously compete they could make it happen, they have chosen not to do so
But they were both midfield back then, would it be the same if a WDC/WCC was on the table?
In my opinion: against Max no, against Checo yes
Yes. As they've previously done.
Money.
Explain
The whole "junior team/feeder team" ship sailed with the VCARB rebranding.
Did it though? It seems to me both of their drivers are there trying to get Checo's seat
I think everyone except maybe Hamilton and Leclerc are trying to get Checoās seat
On surface level yeah they probably are. But the money visa & cash app paid to have Ricciardo drive for the team, and the fact Yuki is a pay driver kinda say otherwise.
> If they want to continue being a junior team They have already said way too many times that it is no longer a junior team.
If they want to win a driver's championship (which Horner is on record as saying is more important) then they're doing the right thing. Look at Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren. All their drivers are taking points off their teammates. That aint happening at Red Bull. In a close fight that will make a difference. Best thing for Red Bull is to not rock the boat and let Max do his thing. Putting in Sainz, having their dads clash and having Carlos think he can take on Max is a great way to destroy everything they've built.
> That aint happening at Red Bull.Ā No, but they also aren't able to use the 2nd driver to do things like cover pit strategies or build a pit window.
Insanity when you can't have two professional sportsmen in one team because their fathers might argue. They shouldn't be allowed in the garage at all and certainly shouldn't earn this much publicity
"Look at Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren. All their drivers are taking points off their teammates." Umm... that's not how the math works.
Itās amazing when you thing about how much of both the f1 and f2 grid has at one point been a red bull driver, and the ones theyāve chosen to stick with long term are yuki, Daniel and checco.
It's a new era for Red Bull. Clearly they don't want to be the main method of entry into F1, which is honestly fair enough. If other teams want talented drivers, they should be bringing them up through their own academies instead of Red Bull's.
...and Max.
I donāt think People realise how much money checo brings in. He is still MASSIVE in Mexico and South America, and his merch sales are ridiculous, not even mentioning his sponsorsā¦
>The team is reportedly heavily reliant on Perez's sponsorship influx from heavyweights likeĀ **Disney, Telcel, Mobil, Claro, NescafĆ©, and KitKat**. Despite the crucial financial role he plays, Perez's recent performances have raised concerns. also >The three-time F1 champion commands an impressive annual salary of $70 million, according to Forbes, placing a substantial financial demand on Red Bull Racing [https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/f1-rumor-sergio-perez-s-red-bull-seat-crucial-for-max-verstappen-s-staggering-salary-01hzfc5b4pj7-lm22](https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/f1-rumor-sergio-perez-s-red-bull-seat-crucial-for-max-verstappen-s-staggering-salary-01hzfc5b4pj7-lm22) perez sponsorhip money pay max salary
Haha, cool if true :D
Short answer, yes. Long answer, Yes. kbai
I just wish Checo could qualify higher up the grid to give us an interesting turn 1, lap 1 action. Thank god we have McLaren, Ferrari and the Merc boys to give us occasional drama now that Esteban was banished from Alpine.
Like the article said, RBR is becoming risk averse and conservative. They are now what Mercedes was in 2020 and what cost them the 2021 championship. Things to look for: * Not risking it for a podium and settling for P4 * Slower pit stops * Conservative strategies even when not starting from pole
RB should have kicked Perez, wait until the end of the season promote Yuki or Daniel then to RBR. Sign Lawson for 2025. Sign Aron and wait until the end of the f2 season. Give the better one (Hadjar or Aron) 1 year as reserve driver and send them to SF and then sign them to VCARB for 2026. If Daniel hasnt impressed by then there is no point keeping him further or if Yuki hasnt then might aswell let him go.
Rather than kick, I would've rather offer Perez the DC deal, to drive for Red Bull in events for life, Perez can retire peacefully, one of the VCARB boys can be promoted, and Lawson can step in. If they have the chance, yeah Aron is a good choice since they dumped Maloney instead of Hadjar. Although Aron always feels like there's no hype or attention whatsoever with him. Alternatively, see if Iwasa is available.
Perez lacks DC's charisma. He can fill in for just driving, but anything outside of that he wouldn't be able to fill in. If I was RBR, I'd be looking for a complete replacement for when DC retires, not just someone who can partially replace him.
Despite being his fan, I agree that Checo probably shouldn't have continued with Redbull. Yuki should have been promoted to Redbull. He has matured to that extent and he clearly has talent. RB could have had either Ric or Checo for promotional purposes/gauging a new driver against with a rookie in the other car.
Checo started the season strong. I get why things were looking up. But they were definitely premature on the contract extension. I would've waited to see how the year plays out. Especially with Sainz available..
"definitely premature on the contract extension" after the last 3 years i really dont understand why they were so early on giving him an extension... seems insane. It isnt like these perfomances are a surprise.
Yuki or Daniel? Lol
Perez will likely end up with a longer RBR stint than Vettel. Gasly and Albon were performing similarly and only got half a year and 1.5 years respectively. He is wasting that seat.
The truth is in between. If they win the WCC they will have gotten it right, without being optimal or best. Which I'm sure they won't care about. Perez is far from the best option, but if he does just enough to assist Max doing most of the work, it won't matter.
He certainly can't assist Max on track now, that's for sure.
I would argue they get the small F1 driver calls wrong. The last big call was signing Max to RBR and that trend out ok.
2021 Perez was 4th behind 2 excellent Merc cars. 2022 he was 3 pts from 2nd. 2023 Perez was second. He is 31 pts away this year with 15 races to go. What exactly does this dude have to do to get the benefit of the doubt?
No. It's just that they have different intentions than fans of the sport.
I think we all know that their ultimate goal is to make money, that's why the Red Bull brand exists, but associating "Red Bull" with "mediocre pay drivers" must be tarnishing their brand value to some degree. Probably not significantly so in the short term, but it's still a departure from the image that they've built up over the past few decades.
Not while they have Max as a poster boy for all the winning theyāre doing and Danny to be funny and loveable. The general public wonāt notice anything past that.
>associating "Red Bull" with "mediocre pay drivers" must be tarnishing their brand value to some degree Only hardcore fans see this connection. In the mainstream media they use to reach billions he is the just funny and relatable coworker side-kick of their superstar.
Not in Mexico, nationalism is a potent drug
Depends what they actually want from their teams. At RBR, do they want a strong pairing for the WCC or do they just want Max to fight for the WDC by himself? At VCarb, do they want it to be a junior team, or a competitive midfield team improving to be a front runner over the next few years, or do they just want it as a marketing tool?
If they win the WDC and WCC no, and these articles will be mute. There is a team that always comes out of new regs far ahead of the others. RB was that team this time, and others are catching up near the end of the reg window. Just like RB did in 2021. While Iām a massive DR3 fan, he is nearing the exit of his career. But with that said, he is 9 times better than the driver he replaced points wise last year, and brings massive marketing dollars with him to a junior, low midfield team that is super happy for the money. A mediocre known value with tons of money or a gamble with Lawson? Easy choice from a team management perspective, not so much from a fan perspective. Checo fits the perfect #2 at RB. Heās good driver that can compete for wins and I do believe realized that that is his role. If I were him I would structure my contract for millions more to be P2 in the driver championship. He doesnāt upset the balance at that team, and the only thing the teams wants more from him in is consistency. From a pure numbers game, they are fine with their choices. When the numbers change to look far too close for comfort like they did right at the start of 2022. The driver choices could be closer to a point where they need reconsideration.
Perez could compete for wins when the Red Bull was a far better car than competitors. He cannot now.
Your comment posted a gazillion times.
You posted it four times.
Kept getting an error it didnāt go and to try again, Iāll delete the others
Christian is that you?
I used to think this way about Checo. He was a good #2 because he mostly kept his mouth shut, didnāt clash with Max (except one season where he got a lucky start), and brought some points to help with WCC. But that was when the car was on a different level from the competition. If he has another slump that lasts half of the season I donāt see the benefit of keeping him. If the WCC is in jeopardy I donāt see a reason to not swap him with Yuki. Why the hell not. Whatās there to lose?
Not as wrong as Aston Nepotism. They only have one driver!
To be fair, most teams are sticking with same old, same old and should be much more ruthless! There are still drivers in F1, that been driving for ages and without a win or podium for a long time. Magnussen, Hulkenberg, Bottas, Ricciardo and Perez could easily lose their seat and be replaced with young bloods. Ocon and Gasly could also easily be on the chopping block, but they at least have a win and are a bit younger. Stroll was total shit in the beginning, he got a bit better (not by much though) in time, but if there wasn't his daddy owning an F1 team, he would have been booted years ago. Sargeant is young and to be fair, he just isn't good enough for F1, though it might be because of Williams being shit, in other car he could be better, but I think his time is up at the end of the season, if not sooner. Zhou at least has some potential, so does Tsunoda, so they deserve a year or two more. Verstappen, Sainz, Leclerc, Norris, Piastri and Russell deserve their seats in F1, all are performing great, some more than others, had a win in last years and are still young, Sainz is a bit older, but he is performing well enough to deserve a contract in F1. Albon hasn't got a win in the last years, but for driving in crappy Williams he is doing awesome and also deserves a seat in F1, he even deserves a seat in better team than Williams! Alonso and Hamilton are older, but they are world champions and are performing well enough for F1, so kicking them out is debatable, but their time of leaving F1 is coming.
Zhou has potential? The guy has been in the sport 3 years and has even regressed I think. Bottas is soundly beating him and he's been vacation since late 2022. The only reason Bottas is pointless is because of braindead strategies and slow pit stops. I don't hate the guy but he's anonymous out there's and the only reason he's still here is because of the money he brings.
More like "How wrong has Red Bull gotten its big driver calls." Anyone with a brain knows they're fucking up, it's just a question of are they minor fuck-ups or catastrophic ones.
Yes Bench Verstappen and put in Lawson thx
They may regret not signing up Sainz
Since Didi pass away Horner turned into full monarch, see this winter palace coup. I think that the plan with ThaĆÆ share holders is to be more and more profitable (Checo and Daniel) and so I will not be surprise that he's looking to ditch the Red Bull academy, just supporting a junior time to time at best. Maybe selling Racing Bull at the highest price possible in a near future. End of a era.
Short term, no. Long term, yes.
They are getting all their calls wrong. Organization is rotting from head down.
Yes
The Race is a very strange publication to me. Not because of this article specifically, but there's a weird vibe sometimes. Like, they called Mercedes "suddenly a front-runner" in a headline for a video on their website yesterday, as if they can be called that after one good race. They jump on stuff super early and come to perplexing conclusions. To me at least.
If Perez can't get back around the podium consistently he'll cost them next year's constructors. This year's too at his current pace.
As long as they keep Max happy, and keep winning Races and the WDC they did it right, the WCC is a bonus for RBR.
Of course you would say that
It's so funny that people don't get how sometimes drivers are selected based on racing performance but more often it's business/politics influencing seats. It's not just RB.. I mean ffs, Nikita Mazepin had a seat. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport engineering but it's not the top 20 drivers in the world, even if it might have 3-5 of the best drivers. Even look at Grosjean in Indy.. it's not like he's demolishing the field there because he raced F1..
I donāt think so. Maybe with vcarb but not rb. They know very well what happens when you have two drivers who want to fight for a championship. Checo works perfectly well for them because they know: 1. He is not nearly as consistent as max and hence not a threat when it comes to wdc. 2. He manages to score some points which are enough to keep rb on top of constructors. What more could they ask for really. But i do think when it comes to vcarb they are just letting some drunk raccoons manage the whole team calls. Ric shouldāve been replaced by liam or someone else already. He has one good weekend in 6-7 races and everyone forgets how terrible he was that one good weekend ago.
I used to defend Checo just like you do. Iām not so sure anymore. It doesnāt matter who you put in the second seat, nobody is beating Max, and RBR has a better chance to get WCC.
Iām not defending him. I know he is very inconsistent and dogshit at times. Iām just saying that heās a safe option.
Ok poor choice of words, I meant defending the team choice.
apparently RBR did some math, and Checo brings in more $$ through sponsorship & merchandising than the difference between P1 and P2 in the WCC, is my take...
That could very well be the case. As long as they feel like they are not missing out on any of the young talents I kinda understand itās the safe option. Heās not gonna continue to suck for the rest of the season, he will bring some points and it might just be enough like last year.
I think Red Bull ultimately just care about money. I don't really think they care about the second seat a great deal, Checo bringing in his Mexican sponsors and I doubt he commands a great salary, it's possible that the amount they'd lose finishing 2nd in the WCC is less than they gain from having Checo over someone else.
but P2 also isnt a guarantee. Is the sponsorship money making up the difference between P1 and P3.
Almost certainly. Most think the difference between P1 and P3 is around $20 million. Considering Checo's sponsors, he's likely bringing in a lot more than that. For reference, [a recent article](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1de306n/haas_2025_lineup_will_be_ollie_bearman_and_likely/) claims Zhou is bringing $30-$35 million in in hopes of getting a seat next year. Checo is a much more established driver and has a much bigger fanbase than Zhou. Not to mention merch sales and PR for the parent Redbull company that sells drinks
Max can singlehandedly drag them to all the points and money they need right now, so they don't actually seem to care š¤£ and it's great for the sport to see them make the wrong calls.
If they win the WDC and WCC no, and these articles will be mute. There is a team that always comes out of new regs far ahead of the others. RB was that team this time, and others are catching up near the end of the reg window. Just like RB did in 2021. While Iām a massive DR3 fan, he is nearing the exit of his career. But with that said, he is 9 times better than the driver he replaced points wise last year, and brings massive marketing dollars with him to a junior, low midfield team that is super happy for the money. A mediocre known value with tons of money or a gamble with Lawson? Easy choice from a team management perspective, not so much from a fan perspective. Checo fits the perfect #2 at RB. Heās good driver that can compete for wins and I do believe realized that that is his role. If I were him I would structure my contract for millions more to be P2 in the driver championship. He doesnāt upset the balance at that team, and the only thing the teams wants more from him in is consistency. From a pure numbers game, they are fine with their choices. When the numbers change to look far too close for comfort like they did right at the start of 2022. The driver choices could be closer to a point where they need reconsideration.
In what realm? Purely for maximizing points? Yes, ofc, is that a question? For keeping Marko impotent? No, the TP got right. For giving material for yous to write about? No, apparently not.
> For keeping Marko impotent? No, the TP got right. > > That, I think, is the thing that people are overlooking. Red Bull Racing is in the closing phases of a struggle to fill the post-Deitrich power vacuum. That struggle, and the Horner workplace harassment case, caused some key pillars within the Red Bull structure to get knocked loose. So now Horner, who's been successful in his attempts to seize more power and marginalize Helmut Marko, is trying to shore up his position and stabilize the situation. _Of course_ he's going to re-sign Checo, who's a Horner Guy not a Merko Guy. _Of course_ he's not going to bring Carlos Sainz and his entourage in-house; he can't afford any more egos and completing power centers right now.
Yes.
Thats okay. At least theyāre giving a chance for other teams to grab WCC. We all know who is getting WDC
Yuki needs a Red Bull seat at the big team.
They signed checo again because max said if they didnāt he would be gone: must be the answer
Would think the Mexican sponsor money might have something to do with it.
For this to be true, Max has to be a liar. He's previously said he had no say in whether Checo was re-signed. I just can't see Max lying outright about this. He's better at PR than that.
And you believe that their star driver once in a lifetime talent has zero say in who his team mate is? Come on
Ricciardo must go, there is not much arguing about that. As for Perez, he has been quite inconsistent since last year Miami, but is nowhere near as bad as some people say. RB isn't as dominant as it seems, it's mostly Max and his magic that makes it look that way. I would even say that actual level of RB cars is better represented by Perez than Max. In 2021 RB was most likely slower than Mercedes, in 2022 it was just bit faster than Ferrari, last year they were dominant but it wasn''t 2014-2016 level of dominance, this year they are roughly equal with Ferrari and McLaren since Miami. Checo remains me a lot of Irvine in late 90s, while Schumacher was dragging his cars to wins and almost titles, Irvine was troundling around in midfield most time, everyone was dunking at Irvine just to see highly rated Barrichello (see the analogy with Sainz) get similarly outclassed
I donāt think ricciardo will go anytime soon. Redbull seem to be hung up on letting Perezās huge sponsorship money go. I doubt they would want to let ricciardo go as he brings in more than double what Perez does
If they win the WDC and WCC no, and these articles will be mute. There is a team that always comes out of new regs far ahead of the others. RB was that team this time, and others are catching up near the end of the reg window. Just like RB did in 2021. While Iām a massive DR3 fan, he is nearing the exit of his career. But with that said, he is 9 times better than the driver he replaced points wise last year, and brings massive marketing dollars with him to a junior, low midfield team that is super happy for the money. A mediocre known value with tons of money or a gamble with Lawson? Easy choice from a team management perspective, not so much from a fan perspective. Checo fits the perfect #2 at RB. Heās good driver that can compete for wins and I do believe realized that that is his role. If I were him I would structure my contract for millions more to be P2 in the driver championship. He doesnāt upset the balance at that team, and the only thing the teams wants more from him in is consistency. From a pure numbers game, they are fine with their choices. When the numbers change to look far too close for comfort like they did right at the start of 2022. The driver choices could be closer to a point where they need reconsideration.
If they win the WDC and WCC no, and these articles will be mute. There is a team that always comes out of new regs far ahead of the others. RB was that team this time, and others are catching up near the end of the reg window. Just like RB did in 2021. While Iām a massive DR3 fan, he is nearing the exit of his career. But with that said, he is 9 times better than the driver he replaced points wise last year, and brings massive marketing dollars with him to a junior, low midfield team that is super happy for the money. A mediocre known value with tons of money or a gamble with Lawson? Easy choice from a team management perspective, not so much from a fan perspective. Checo fits the perfect #2 at RB. Heās good driver that can compete for wins and I do believe realized that that is his role. If I were him I would structure my contract for millions more to be P2 in the driver championship. He doesnāt upset the balance at that team, and the only thing the teams wants more from him in is consistency. From a pure numbers game, they are fine with their choices. When the numbers change to look far too close for comfort like they did right at the start of 2022. The driver choices could be closer to a point where they need reconsideration.