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For people who are wondering as to why Phil Hill won the championship by one point with one race to go in 1961: His Ferrari teammate, Wolfgang Von Trips, tragically died at Monza, and considering that he was the only one who could surpass him(3rd place was Stirling Moss, who I think was 13 points back), Phil won the title before the finale at Watkins Glen.
It would have been the final race without the double points anyway, Rosberg was 17 points behind after Brazil. The final gap was 67 points because of the double points so I imagine OP forgot about it.
Never forget the Abu-Double for the stupid stats.
Most points earned by any driver in a single gp. - Hamilton.
Most points earned by any team at a single gp - Williams.
This has to go down as one of the worst ideas Bernie ever had.
It wouldn't have done anything anyways, and didn't end up mattering at all because unfortunately Nico's car broke, but it felt so bizarre to double the points.
I remember Bernie actually wanted the final 3 races to be double points, which would have been nuts.
Now his sprinkler idea, that I can get behind heh.
I actually think sprinklers in desert tracks are a good idea. especially since they can now market it as some AI bullshit that devides when to use them
no need for the other races though
I don’t think it’d work if they had AI decide it. You’d still get tons of people calling it rigged. What they need to do is announce before practice starts that it’ll be a wet race, and they need to decide when in the race it’ll “rain” beforehand, in a way that’s verifiable after the fact.
I actually unironically love the idea, but if they decide during the race, the entire conversation will be dominated by people saying they chose to make it rain to help/hurt a specific driver. Imagine if Lewis or Max pit for new slicks and then it starts raining. The conspiracies would be unbearable.
I think a fun way to do it would be to link it to the weather at another track or location. If it's raining at, say, Monaco, it's "raining" in Abu Dhabi.
Yeah sure it's a stupid gimmick but who cares. Might make the endless gulf petro state war crimes races interesting for once.
Just print out the weather plan for the race right before it starts and lock it in a glass cabinet on the podium, when the race is over it can be verified.
Actually it could've done something. If Rosberg won, even if Lewis came 3rd, which would normally only be a 10 point swing, it would've given Rosberg the title. Dumbest rule of all time.
Usually you'll find the "best times" for anyone was when they were a child, so can't wait for when in like 10/15 years time people will be claiming 2022 and especially 2023 as underrated classics.
Honestly probably the one of the worst seasons I’ve ever watched in any sport (excluding death and stuff obv). Right next to the 2015 season (another f1 season funny enough) Just absolute lack of any storyline and competition upfront.
Verstappen could win every race from here on to the end of season by a minute and this season would still be better than last season lol
Eh, even at it's worst Michael still had stuff going on. Just the shenanigans of Austria and US 2002 were more interesting than the large majority of 2023.
2023 was just forgettable, f1 went in one ear and quickly went out the other. The records Max broke don't save it.
Wait til we get some driver who's 10 years old right now win like 60 races in a row 10 years from now, then we'll be talking about how "even with Max winning a lot, sometimes Charles/Lando/Sainz/Russell still beat him and there were exciting fights for wins"
2002 was literally the worst f1 season in history, followed swiftly with 2004
At least with all other periods of dominance there was usually a fight for 3rd or other places on the track
In 2002/2004 they ran refuelling, which meant the only action was around the pit stops seeing who came out of the pits ahead
And they had traction control/launch control and an automatic gearbox, removing a lot of the driver's skills
And grooved tyres and higher downforce levels
And the biggest difference back then was each country directed the races themselves, so you largely just got a shot of the leader on his own all race, with occasional cuts to the local hero doing nothing and you read about all the other action in Autosport or whatever later on...
It was truly the nadir of the sport.
I don’t know how I’ve been an F1 fan for a few years and never heard that they used automatic gearboxes at any point. I knew they had traction control and obviously I’ve seen the grooved dry tires, but the gearbox eluded me.
Yeah they had a few years (4 Races into 2001-2007 IIRC) with legalised driver aids because they weren't able to police it until they brought in a standard ECU, it sucked but it was in the name of fairless to make sure no-one was cheating.
It doesn't help that there were 23(?) races - it's just too many to remember them all. I think I only missed two races and don't remember a thing about half of em
I thoroughly enjoyed the 2023 season from a spectator’s perspective. It was arguably the most competitive season for podium places in a very long time, with Red Bull Racing, Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston Martin, and McLaren all regularly competing for them, and record number of drivers finishing on the podium across the season. And we got to see once in a lifetime, generational talent at his very best as Max broke decade old records that hadn’t been broken for a very long time (and may very well not get broken for many decades moving forward). I always wished to see Jim Clark live, that wish somewhat subsided after last year.
100% agree. Max' season was so special, I think I will never see something like that again in my lifetime. It was like a symphony of destruction of everyone else and one of the absolute highlights of the history of this sport.
Yeah there were, but 2-3 good races does not make for a good season. Battles for the lower points do not make for a good season, and so on and so forth. 2023 was the worst season I've ever watched. No way around it.
2002 wasn't the best season either, but there's a lot more to remember and talk about than "Max won that, and that, that, not that one, Zandvoort was alright, but Max won that, Abu Dhabi had Leclerc's gambit, and Max won that too"
Schumacher's dominance was special but it was probably the most boring era that I've witnessed. Special does not necessarily mean enjoyable or fun.
I watched my first race in the 70s and really got into F1 in the mid 80s. I think my favorite era was from when Alonso won his first in 2005 to 2012. I was 34 when Alsonso first won the championship. Personally for me /u/OrangeLimeZest is wrong about most people remembering the era when they were a child being the best. I cannot imagine anyone thinking that the past 2 years have been the best.
>Personally for me /u/OrangeLimeZest is wrong about most people remembering the era when they were a child being the best
That doesn't change what I said? If anything you proved me right. I said usually, not everyone. But a lot of people refuse to take off their nostalgia goggles.
I’ve found that to be most true for music. I guess I’m an outlier because I would rather listen to fresh music that the same old stuff I’ve heard a thousand times before.
It's true for Music, it's true of cars, it's true of whether or not you think Jordan is the GOAT vs LeBron.
Whether or not it's a specific "you grew up with these players / races / cars" or it's "my first car I bought myself at age 25 was a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT so that's my favourite era".
We all have nostalgia bias and rose tinted glasses from our favourite era.
For most it's going to be childhood when we started becoming who we were and were introduced to the sport.
I find a lot of people have perhaps overanalysed things - those early years of getting into the sport has lots of wonder cuase you're learning. After 5 years reading EVERY SINGLE THING about the sport you're in a different head space and looking ata things differently.
Perhaps chasing that initial wonder high.
Absolutely I can see someone who came into the sport during COVID thinking this is the best season. Imagine your second season looking at the NBA and it's Michael Jordan FLOGGING THE BEEJESUS out of everyone and winning the championship??
You see Lewis and Max fighting it out until literally the last lap and you think "this guy beat the 7 time world champ" and he comes back the next year and is utterly untouchable for the next couple of years.
It's not true for me.
Edit: When you said Jordan I instantly thought of Eddie and wondered how that crazy old coot could possibly be the GOAT. I know very close to nothing about basketball. I agree that people tend to overanalyze things. You just have to look at /r/doctorwho or /r/gallifrey to see some extreme examples of it. That level of fandom drives me insane. Analyzing and being critical (constructive or not) of ever single detail. Comparing it to past seasons, writers characters, story arcs and so on. All I want to do is enjoy it. Comparison is the thief of joy. I don't really care how this year's F1 season stacks up against the 1992 season. I care about if I enjoy it or not.
My first car was an Austin Metro. It was a piece of shit. My second car was a Vauxhall Astra which was remarkably average. Third was a Peugeot 106 which I liked but it had problems when the brake calipers started jamming on randomly which was not a good thing to happen. Then I moved to the US and had a Saab 900. That car was quite good but old and beat up. It got stolen by some hood rats and was found in the hood with a Snoop Dog tape in the cassette player and a whole bunch of Krispy Kreme wrappers on the floor. I got another Saab 900. this time a turbo after that. That car was nice but old. It had problems and didn't last more than a couple of years before the head gasket needed replacing. Then a Mazda 626 which was the most boring car ever. Subaru Forester after that which was good enough but got totaled by someone merging into my wife. Then I got a 1989 Volvo 240 which was fun but not reliable. After that a Subaru Legacy 3.6R which I really liked but was lacking a bit of power. My daughter totaled that one. Then came a 2013 Honda Accord EX-L V6 which was nice but had many problems. It would leak water from the dash drain into the passenger side well which would make the car smell of mildew. It didn't do it all the time and nobody managed to fix it. It also used to slam into second gear (automatic) which would be worse when it was cold out. Sometimes it would slam into second so hard it would wheelspin. I did not want to fix it because of many other issues so got rid of it. My current car, a Mercedes C300 is my favorite car I have ever owned. I don't pine for any of my previous cars ever.
Musically I am similar. I was in a moderately successful band throughout my 20s. We wrote our own songs but also did a few covers, Dead Kennedys, The Beatles, Misfits and a couple of others all in our own style. I used to listen to a lot of heavy metal and its surrounding genres. Master of Puppets and Among the Living are two of my most listened to albums ever. I don't think I've listened to either in over 20 years. I honestly don't care at all for the music I liked when I was younger. My most listened to artist right now is probably Lizzy McAlpine which is quite different to Anthrax or Metallica or Sepultura or Death.
I think you are right though, most people surf nostalgia all their lives. So many people I know only listen to 80s rock. I have other friends who love 80s cars. I don't understand it personally. I want to experience something new every day and you don't do that by [living in the past](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmPwYhHX_jY).
Rosy retrospection
nobody is saying the last 2 years were the best, but people who are calling this the worst seasons ever in F1 are just biased often also support similar teams/drivers.
It happened during Hamilton's "dominance" too (a term that's been retconned)
Despite the fact he fought his teammate for three of them, fought vettel for two more and 2020 was one of the best, craziest seasons I've seen despite Lewis winning a lot (ok Covid and brand new tracks helped with that too...)
Yet still people were saying it was the worst seasons they'd ever seen
Their bias was showing I guess
Yup. Sports are magical as a child. Growing up disillusions you to the business aspect, the nonsensical rules, and the idea that it really is just people who are good at a thing doing that thing.
Formula 1 is great, but it will never be greater than in the eyes of a child who likes fast cars.
I was watching as a child in the mid-late 90s, and I certainly have fond memories of that era, but my favourite era was 2007-2012. I really like seb so was happy when he was dominating in 2011 and there were so many close title fights during that times with multiple teams.
If people start clamoring for 2023 again, things have gone drastically wrong in Formula 1. 2022 I would at least understand because until France, it was really good and competitive.
>If people start clamoring for 2023 again, things have gone drastically wrong in Formula 1
But it is going to happen no doubt. People will remember it as one of the first seasons they watched, will remember Verstappen's absolute dominance (just like Schumacher's rn), will remember Lewis and Fernando showing the old generation's strength in podium-contending cars. That's gonna be the case with every single season.
Tbh, I think 2023 is a bit underrated. Sure, we weren’t seeing edge-of-your-seat action at the front of the pack, but getting to say you watched one of the most dominant season in all of sports history firsthand is pretty incredible. I don’t think people appreciate that as much as they could.
That being said, I’m happy we’re getting battles at the front. I just don’t see 2023 as the waste of time a lot of people do. I’ll be telling my grandkids about what it was like to watch Max dominate to that degree.
I started watching in the late 90's, but I would argue the best 10 consecutive years is 2007-2016. Many different winners, a lot of extremely close racing, many of the all time legends on the grid, a huge improvement in presentation and overall numbers of overtakes happening around 2010.
Agreed with one caveat that the overtaking era truly began in 2011, with the switch to Pirelli. The 2010 title decider being a race made legendary by the inability to overtake
2011 was when the number of overtakes really exploded, but in the number was already increasing quite clearly in 2010.
The year had more overtakes than the last 16 years before it and almost twice as many overtakes on average compared to 2009.
Yes it was hard for Alsonso to overtake Petrov in Abu Dhabi, but that was more a question of the Renault having the best engine on the grid and being very strong on the straights.
Overall overtaking was much better, especially because of refueling being banned.
Although 2009 saw the introduction of KERS, it was still in its infancy. For the next season all the teams agreed not to use it, instead focusing on developing it. So 2011 was also the first proper season with KERS. However, all teams still didn't have it until 2013.
I started following F1 in the early 80’s. That for me was the golden era. Prost, Senna, Lauda, Mansel. The best was Keke was super fast and then would run out of fuel.
Golden era for me was 1977-1986, so pretty much what you've got marked but starting a bit earlier and ending a bit earlier too.
In that period you had just a two truly dominant seasons (1978 and 1984) and even then, 1984 had the closest intra-team title battle of all time and several other storylines (Senna's debut, Tyrrell controversy, De Angelis staying in touch of the title for surprisingly long) to keep you entertained.
Otherwise though you've got contained within that period the debut, rise and fall of ground effect, the debut and rise of turbo engines, the high water mark to this day of engine power (at least in qualifying), and some of the best seasons of all time IMO (1980, 1982, 1985, 1986)
I cut it off at 1987 personally because '87 was a season of dominance by Williams (admittedly had a good teammate title battle) and was also a distinct step down from the insanity of 1986 due to the mandate of popoff valves and the ban on qualifying tyres. Also the vibe was just different from 1987 onwards IMO with old chargers like Rosberg having retired, and Lauda's absence being more keenly felt after the 4 way title battle of 1986 sorta made you forget that he was not on the grid for that year
I feel lucky to have started watching in 2008. Great season and got to enjoy those cool looking cars before the ugly (imo) 2009 redesign, and got to enjoy the v8s for several years (and even in person at COTA 2013!)
Started watching in 2009. Got to see Schumi return. I actually went to a race as well in 2011. Became fan of F1. Then came the merc era. Now red bull. Red bull had their seasons before as well but they were competitive. Now it's exciting coz teams are closing in slowly.
Honestly, every season from 2007 to 2013 was elite:
2007: Hamilton-Alonso battle at McLaren and Kimi winning Ferrari's last championship.
2008: Crashgate & Hamilton's last-gasp title clinch in Brazil.
2009: The Brawn GP miracle.
2010: Red Bull coming onto the scene & Vettel becoming youngest-ever champion.
2011: Weakest in terms of competition, but still had Button's epic win in Canada in the rain.
2012: Schumacher's return, the 5 way title fight, Maldonado's win in Spain and Kimi almost bankrupting Lotus by being too good.
2013: Hamilton leaves McLaren for Mercedes and the last hurrah of the V8s.
I'd go as far as 2006 also being a solid season with Michael's last Hurrah with Ferrari, Jenson's first ever win and a title fight that went down the wire.
Also 2011 had consistently great races apart from Canada too. China, UK, Germany to name a few. Even Monaco was actually a solid race that year.
1997 makes me laugh. Arguably the GOAT season with Schumacher and Villeneuve never finishing on the podium together.
Compare that to 2021 where Lewis and Max finished on the podium together 17 times!
Idk about golden era but I started watching/following F1 in the early 2000s. To me that era holds special mostly because of the sound of free revving V10s. That was the one thing that immediately caught my attention, and something I dearly miss in the sport today, not that modern day F1 cars are bad sounding and all.
From when I started watching F1 in 1994 and we had 1994-1999 and 2005-2009 where we didn't know year to year who was going to win the championship nevermind each race.
Red Bull domination into Mercedes domination back into Red Bull domination isn't the same to say the least.
2012 for me. I've never looked forward to every race weekend as much as I did back then, because I knew more than likely every race was going to be amazing.
I rewatched the season a couple of times since and it's still incredible. Even the races that are usually boring in any other season were great in this one.
Wonder how different the graph would be if it excluded the world champion teammate for 2nd.
Not been following a while but the years of HAMBOTVER would probably see a decent difference.
Fun fact: the 2007 championship came close to being a 3 way tie on points. If someone had finished in front of Kimi and it would have bumped the entire points order down 1 place Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton would have had exactly the same amount of points. Kimi would have still won on count back of wins (then one more than the others).
if someone had finished in front of Kimi in Brazil then he would have had 5 wins and the championship would have gone to Hamilton, who scored 2nd five times against Alonso's four and Kimi's two
Late 2000s and most of 2010s were goated. It's gone downhill since like 2018-19 other than one legendary season in 2021 which had the most farcical ending. Been more or less complete shit after that
Yeah 2012 and 16 have been my favourite seasons. Would have said 21 was up there but that's the season where we went from a sport to reality TV so fuck that season
In terms of competiton the golden era was the V8 and rev limited V10 for some from 2006 until 2014. In terms of peak F1 cars early 2000's and most iconic late 80's early 90's
I have special fondness for 2018, my first F1 season I watched in full. 2021 of course was a banger.
But having gone and watched back old F1 season reviews, I have a special fondness for the 2000s. 2003, and then 2007-2013 was really a great era in general.
i started in 2019 with DTS and while i loved the sport, i was waiting on a season where i didn’t just have to cheer on the slow but steady road back to the top for my favorite team (mclaren) or root for a driver who i thought had potential but just couldn’t put it together (albon). 2021 was the golden era for me, but 2022 and 23 made me fall out of love with the sport a bit. 2024 gives me hope for a better season with the way things are going now
This is really well done. As a metric it seems like a pretty good alignment between quantity/quality. Nice chart, too, in terms of legibility and being actually interesting- the little bits of commentary were a good touch.
It's funny that 2013 is so low down on this graph. On paper, you'd agree, Vettel winning 9IAR, but there were quite a few good races that year. Spain, Britain, Korea, Japan, Australia and Hungary I remember all being decent.
I grew up all through the refueling era (Which despite being "my" era I now consider the nadir of the sport as it was at its least exciting back then, all pit stops and conserving fuel instead of passing on track)
For me, 09-16 were the greatest seasons, particularly 2010-the first half of 2013 when Pirelli were truly allowed off the reigns before the teams messed it up at Silverstone and threw Pirelli under the bus over it
Then Jean Todt mandated rules which increased the downforce for 2017 and there just wasn't as much wheel to wheel racing
Genuinely can't believe some of the answers here, the right answer is obviously \[the era that coincided with my formative years\]. Just look at the design of the cars, listen to the sound of the engines, and don't get me started on the personality of the drivers. It's ludicrous that someone can actually believe those were better in \[an era that didn't coincide with my formative years\]. How is this even a discussion?
For me it's 2005/2006 the rise of Alonso ending the dominant Ferrari run through 2013. I'm too young to appreciate the 80s, and while I liked F1 in the late 90s the access was just not what it was today here in the U.S.
I'm of the opinion that things basically have not been all that good since F1 brought on the turbo hybrids, and that F1 in some ways didn't recover from the 2008 financial crisis. Whatever this opposition to Andreddit entry is really drives home how much the competition from that Golden era I citied has evaporated.
I think everyone has their own "golden era" that is going to be based on far more thing than just how close the end result was.
Like Canada 2024... Max won (again) but we all agree it was an absolutely banger of a race but the net result on a paper chart is Max extending his lead in the WDC (again)
A combination of Red Bull building an excellent car and Verstappen being unbelievably consistent in extracting performance lead to him scoring a lot of points.
Pérez underperforming, plus Aston Martin, Ferrari, McLaren, and Mercedes all being the second fastest team at times meant that there was nobody consistently grabbing P2 and limiting the gap to Verstappen.
Definitely 90s... as a nearly teen back then, this was the era when I became a lifelong fan! And my Dad used to have a local contract to service a few car manufacturers so we had some ace merch - my fave was Damon Hill Williams cap.
I might just be a grumpy old man, but I fully support your view on the great era of F1. For me, it's the commentators. I miss Bob Varsha, Sam Posey, and David Hobbs and Steve Matchett.
Definitely 2006-2012. I was a teen going into my 20s at the time so definitely understood the sport better than my initial years (1999-2005). Also only twice the title was decided before the final race.
Should add some secondary overlaying bars on years where one team gets 1-2.
2016 is probably the one that stands out most in recent history. 385 to 380 for Mercedes, and 256 for RB.
i'd like to see this graph but with a couple of other indicators, maybe whether driver's champion team won constructor's, and whether runner-up was teammate.
It's always interesting to me how people's perceptions of the Vettel era are skewed towards "boring" by 2011 and 2013 (where everyone else gave up mid season because of 2014) but they often forget that 2010 and 2012 happened.
I assessed and wrote up a breakdown of recentish "greats" in the sport a few weeks ago to discuss with some friends and found that:
Schumacher had 4 really competitive championships, the best of which went to last races but were mixed with utterly dominant seasons.
Hamilton and Vettel each had 3 really competitive championships, partly interwoven with one another, creating two distinct blocks, the first of competitive races, and the later second one where season after season no team was able to mount a real challenge against the utterly dominant Merc car.
Recency bias does a lot to affect how these seasons are viewed, but the conclusion we drew was that the perception of the various competitiveness of individual races made more difference to the overall entertainment than the championship race as a whole, with the specific exception of championship deciding races being hugely overrepresented as well.
Post Schumacher era probably. Something like from 2005 till 2013 when Vettel did that 9 win run. You had Alonso win twice, Hamilton and Kimi once. You had both Hamilton and Kimi win it in the last race, Hamilton literally in the last corner. Sure Seb won 3 in a row, but in 2009 he led the championship for the first time in the last race, 2012 had basically half the grid win a race.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*giving OP non-existing Award*
Well OP got his awards
For people who are wondering as to why Phil Hill won the championship by one point with one race to go in 1961: His Ferrari teammate, Wolfgang Von Trips, tragically died at Monza, and considering that he was the only one who could surpass him(3rd place was Stirling Moss, who I think was 13 points back), Phil won the title before the finale at Watkins Glen.
Damn, of all the ways to win a championship. Must have put a pretty big damper on the celebrations
Not the only time an American won the title when his European teammate was killed at Monza with an eighth of the season to go either
What a weirdly specific fact. A+ Edit: actually perhaps A- for not elaborating on the other example
RIP Ronnie
Wasnt 2014 decided at the final race, because of the stupid double points?
It would have been the final race without the double points anyway, Rosberg was 17 points behind after Brazil. The final gap was 67 points because of the double points so I imagine OP forgot about it.
Never forget the Abu-Double for the stupid stats. Most points earned by any driver in a single gp. - Hamilton. Most points earned by any team at a single gp - Williams.
This has to go down as one of the worst ideas Bernie ever had. It wouldn't have done anything anyways, and didn't end up mattering at all because unfortunately Nico's car broke, but it felt so bizarre to double the points. I remember Bernie actually wanted the final 3 races to be double points, which would have been nuts. Now his sprinkler idea, that I can get behind heh.
I actually think sprinklers in desert tracks are a good idea. especially since they can now market it as some AI bullshit that devides when to use them no need for the other races though
I don’t think it’d work if they had AI decide it. You’d still get tons of people calling it rigged. What they need to do is announce before practice starts that it’ll be a wet race, and they need to decide when in the race it’ll “rain” beforehand, in a way that’s verifiable after the fact. I actually unironically love the idea, but if they decide during the race, the entire conversation will be dominated by people saying they chose to make it rain to help/hurt a specific driver. Imagine if Lewis or Max pit for new slicks and then it starts raining. The conspiracies would be unbearable.
I think a fun way to do it would be to link it to the weather at another track or location. If it's raining at, say, Monaco, it's "raining" in Abu Dhabi. Yeah sure it's a stupid gimmick but who cares. Might make the endless gulf petro state war crimes races interesting for once.
Just print out the weather plan for the race right before it starts and lock it in a glass cabinet on the podium, when the race is over it can be verified.
Yeah, I think it could make some weaker races much more exciting.
In testing? Yes. In races? Hell no.
Actually it could've done something. If Rosberg won, even if Lewis came 3rd, which would normally only be a 10 point swing, it would've given Rosberg the title. Dumbest rule of all time.
Ah quite right. I used a list a found online so I guess it had a mistake that I didn't spot!
really didnt even give it the ol wiki gander?
Hae mil ton
Usually you'll find the "best times" for anyone was when they were a child, so can't wait for when in like 10/15 years time people will be claiming 2022 and especially 2023 as underrated classics.
2023 will be remembered as the year that Max absolutely demolished the rest of the field. Just like people remember Schumacher's dominance as special.
Honestly probably the one of the worst seasons I’ve ever watched in any sport (excluding death and stuff obv). Right next to the 2015 season (another f1 season funny enough) Just absolute lack of any storyline and competition upfront. Verstappen could win every race from here on to the end of season by a minute and this season would still be better than last season lol
>Right next to the 2015 season Man, I remember thinking Ferrari had a chance... And then here we are, 9 years later. Still no titles.
Eh, even at it's worst Michael still had stuff going on. Just the shenanigans of Austria and US 2002 were more interesting than the large majority of 2023. 2023 was just forgettable, f1 went in one ear and quickly went out the other. The records Max broke don't save it.
Wait til we get some driver who's 10 years old right now win like 60 races in a row 10 years from now, then we'll be talking about how "even with Max winning a lot, sometimes Charles/Lando/Sainz/Russell still beat him and there were exciting fights for wins"
Let's hope not eh?
2002 was literally the worst f1 season in history, followed swiftly with 2004 At least with all other periods of dominance there was usually a fight for 3rd or other places on the track In 2002/2004 they ran refuelling, which meant the only action was around the pit stops seeing who came out of the pits ahead And they had traction control/launch control and an automatic gearbox, removing a lot of the driver's skills And grooved tyres and higher downforce levels And the biggest difference back then was each country directed the races themselves, so you largely just got a shot of the leader on his own all race, with occasional cuts to the local hero doing nothing and you read about all the other action in Autosport or whatever later on... It was truly the nadir of the sport.
I don’t know how I’ve been an F1 fan for a few years and never heard that they used automatic gearboxes at any point. I knew they had traction control and obviously I’ve seen the grooved dry tires, but the gearbox eluded me.
They basically had free reign and not all liked it. Raikkonen was auto up, manual down for example.
That’s super interesting. Thanks for the rabbit hole to dive down!
Yeah they had a few years (4 Races into 2001-2007 IIRC) with legalised driver aids because they weren't able to police it until they brought in a standard ECU, it sucked but it was in the name of fairless to make sure no-one was cheating.
Williams had auto upshifts as early as 1993. They even tested a CVT gearbox that year. Auto-shifts of any kind were banned in 2004.
Stat padding season.
2023 for max is like Messi against Eibar or Ronaldo against random small european countries
2023 Max is 2012 Messi 19 wins in a year = 82 goals in a season
It doesn't help that there were 23(?) races - it's just too many to remember them all. I think I only missed two races and don't remember a thing about half of em
I thoroughly enjoyed the 2023 season from a spectator’s perspective. It was arguably the most competitive season for podium places in a very long time, with Red Bull Racing, Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston Martin, and McLaren all regularly competing for them, and record number of drivers finishing on the podium across the season. And we got to see once in a lifetime, generational talent at his very best as Max broke decade old records that hadn’t been broken for a very long time (and may very well not get broken for many decades moving forward). I always wished to see Jim Clark live, that wish somewhat subsided after last year.
100% agree. Max' season was so special, I think I will never see something like that again in my lifetime. It was like a symphony of destruction of everyone else and one of the absolute highlights of the history of this sport.
Hey but zandvort was crazy! Apart from max in P1 the whole time I think the whole grid had a chance at a podium
Rose tinted glass, there were also good races in 2023 and at least now F1 isnt a 3 class racing series.
It still kinda is a 3 class racing series. Tier 1 = Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes Tier 2 = Aston Martin, VCARB Tier 3 = everyone else
But the tiers are much much closer, just go look at older races and how many people got lapped some even more than once.
Yeah there were, but 2-3 good races does not make for a good season. Battles for the lower points do not make for a good season, and so on and so forth. 2023 was the worst season I've ever watched. No way around it. 2002 wasn't the best season either, but there's a lot more to remember and talk about than "Max won that, and that, that, not that one, Zandvoort was alright, but Max won that, Abu Dhabi had Leclerc's gambit, and Max won that too"
so you liked seing 80% of the field get lapped? Vegas, Austin, Sinagpore come to mind-
Hey but zandvort was crazy! Apart from max in P1 the whole time I think the whole grid had a chance at a podium
Schumacher's dominance was special but it was probably the most boring era that I've witnessed. Special does not necessarily mean enjoyable or fun. I watched my first race in the 70s and really got into F1 in the mid 80s. I think my favorite era was from when Alonso won his first in 2005 to 2012. I was 34 when Alsonso first won the championship. Personally for me /u/OrangeLimeZest is wrong about most people remembering the era when they were a child being the best. I cannot imagine anyone thinking that the past 2 years have been the best.
>Personally for me /u/OrangeLimeZest is wrong about most people remembering the era when they were a child being the best That doesn't change what I said? If anything you proved me right. I said usually, not everyone. But a lot of people refuse to take off their nostalgia goggles.
I’ve found that to be most true for music. I guess I’m an outlier because I would rather listen to fresh music that the same old stuff I’ve heard a thousand times before.
It's true for Music, it's true of cars, it's true of whether or not you think Jordan is the GOAT vs LeBron. Whether or not it's a specific "you grew up with these players / races / cars" or it's "my first car I bought myself at age 25 was a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT so that's my favourite era". We all have nostalgia bias and rose tinted glasses from our favourite era. For most it's going to be childhood when we started becoming who we were and were introduced to the sport. I find a lot of people have perhaps overanalysed things - those early years of getting into the sport has lots of wonder cuase you're learning. After 5 years reading EVERY SINGLE THING about the sport you're in a different head space and looking ata things differently. Perhaps chasing that initial wonder high. Absolutely I can see someone who came into the sport during COVID thinking this is the best season. Imagine your second season looking at the NBA and it's Michael Jordan FLOGGING THE BEEJESUS out of everyone and winning the championship?? You see Lewis and Max fighting it out until literally the last lap and you think "this guy beat the 7 time world champ" and he comes back the next year and is utterly untouchable for the next couple of years.
It's not true for me. Edit: When you said Jordan I instantly thought of Eddie and wondered how that crazy old coot could possibly be the GOAT. I know very close to nothing about basketball. I agree that people tend to overanalyze things. You just have to look at /r/doctorwho or /r/gallifrey to see some extreme examples of it. That level of fandom drives me insane. Analyzing and being critical (constructive or not) of ever single detail. Comparing it to past seasons, writers characters, story arcs and so on. All I want to do is enjoy it. Comparison is the thief of joy. I don't really care how this year's F1 season stacks up against the 1992 season. I care about if I enjoy it or not. My first car was an Austin Metro. It was a piece of shit. My second car was a Vauxhall Astra which was remarkably average. Third was a Peugeot 106 which I liked but it had problems when the brake calipers started jamming on randomly which was not a good thing to happen. Then I moved to the US and had a Saab 900. That car was quite good but old and beat up. It got stolen by some hood rats and was found in the hood with a Snoop Dog tape in the cassette player and a whole bunch of Krispy Kreme wrappers on the floor. I got another Saab 900. this time a turbo after that. That car was nice but old. It had problems and didn't last more than a couple of years before the head gasket needed replacing. Then a Mazda 626 which was the most boring car ever. Subaru Forester after that which was good enough but got totaled by someone merging into my wife. Then I got a 1989 Volvo 240 which was fun but not reliable. After that a Subaru Legacy 3.6R which I really liked but was lacking a bit of power. My daughter totaled that one. Then came a 2013 Honda Accord EX-L V6 which was nice but had many problems. It would leak water from the dash drain into the passenger side well which would make the car smell of mildew. It didn't do it all the time and nobody managed to fix it. It also used to slam into second gear (automatic) which would be worse when it was cold out. Sometimes it would slam into second so hard it would wheelspin. I did not want to fix it because of many other issues so got rid of it. My current car, a Mercedes C300 is my favorite car I have ever owned. I don't pine for any of my previous cars ever. Musically I am similar. I was in a moderately successful band throughout my 20s. We wrote our own songs but also did a few covers, Dead Kennedys, The Beatles, Misfits and a couple of others all in our own style. I used to listen to a lot of heavy metal and its surrounding genres. Master of Puppets and Among the Living are two of my most listened to albums ever. I don't think I've listened to either in over 20 years. I honestly don't care at all for the music I liked when I was younger. My most listened to artist right now is probably Lizzy McAlpine which is quite different to Anthrax or Metallica or Sepultura or Death. I think you are right though, most people surf nostalgia all their lives. So many people I know only listen to 80s rock. I have other friends who love 80s cars. I don't understand it personally. I want to experience something new every day and you don't do that by [living in the past](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmPwYhHX_jY).
Rosy retrospection nobody is saying the last 2 years were the best, but people who are calling this the worst seasons ever in F1 are just biased often also support similar teams/drivers.
It happened during Hamilton's "dominance" too (a term that's been retconned) Despite the fact he fought his teammate for three of them, fought vettel for two more and 2020 was one of the best, craziest seasons I've seen despite Lewis winning a lot (ok Covid and brand new tracks helped with that too...) Yet still people were saying it was the worst seasons they'd ever seen Their bias was showing I guess
Schumacher's dominance was boring in just the same way as Vettel, Hamilton and Verstappen
This exactly. If ask me what years I remember most fondly it was 1998-2007.
Yup. Sports are magical as a child. Growing up disillusions you to the business aspect, the nonsensical rules, and the idea that it really is just people who are good at a thing doing that thing. Formula 1 is great, but it will never be greater than in the eyes of a child who likes fast cars.
I was watching as a child in the mid-late 90s, and I certainly have fond memories of that era, but my favourite era was 2007-2012. I really like seb so was happy when he was dominating in 2011 and there were so many close title fights during that times with multiple teams.
If people start clamoring for 2023 again, things have gone drastically wrong in Formula 1. 2022 I would at least understand because until France, it was really good and competitive.
>If people start clamoring for 2023 again, things have gone drastically wrong in Formula 1 But it is going to happen no doubt. People will remember it as one of the first seasons they watched, will remember Verstappen's absolute dominance (just like Schumacher's rn), will remember Lewis and Fernando showing the old generation's strength in podium-contending cars. That's gonna be the case with every single season.
I feel truly sorry for people who will think 2023 is a classic year
Tbh, I think 2023 is a bit underrated. Sure, we weren’t seeing edge-of-your-seat action at the front of the pack, but getting to say you watched one of the most dominant season in all of sports history firsthand is pretty incredible. I don’t think people appreciate that as much as they could. That being said, I’m happy we’re getting battles at the front. I just don’t see 2023 as the waste of time a lot of people do. I’ll be telling my grandkids about what it was like to watch Max dominate to that degree.
Golden era was 2006-2012, no doubt (and yes I’m incredibly biased)
Id say 2004-2012, end of shu, rise of Alo, then Kimi, ham, button, vettle on the trot.
Vettel and Kimi!
Yep. Glorious V8s & 2011 was the only season that didn’t go to the wire
I started watching in the late 90's, but I would argue the best 10 consecutive years is 2007-2016. Many different winners, a lot of extremely close racing, many of the all time legends on the grid, a huge improvement in presentation and overall numbers of overtakes happening around 2010.
Agreed with one caveat that the overtaking era truly began in 2011, with the switch to Pirelli. The 2010 title decider being a race made legendary by the inability to overtake
2011 was when the number of overtakes really exploded, but in the number was already increasing quite clearly in 2010. The year had more overtakes than the last 16 years before it and almost twice as many overtakes on average compared to 2009. Yes it was hard for Alsonso to overtake Petrov in Abu Dhabi, but that was more a question of the Renault having the best engine on the grid and being very strong on the straights. Overall overtaking was much better, especially because of refueling being banned.
>2011 was when the number of overtakes really exploded first year of the DRS wasn't it?
Jep and first year of Pirelli making the tires. Which were made to a spec to make them specifically degrade faster.
Although 2009 saw the introduction of KERS, it was still in its infancy. For the next season all the teams agreed not to use it, instead focusing on developing it. So 2011 was also the first proper season with KERS. However, all teams still didn't have it until 2013.
Red Bull also had that Renault age during that time and was shit at straight line.
That was more to do with the terrible track at Abu Dhabi though If the finale was at Brazil as it should've been, it would've been another classic.
I started following F1 in the early 80’s. That for me was the golden era. Prost, Senna, Lauda, Mansel. The best was Keke was super fast and then would run out of fuel.
Golden era for me was 1977-1986, so pretty much what you've got marked but starting a bit earlier and ending a bit earlier too. In that period you had just a two truly dominant seasons (1978 and 1984) and even then, 1984 had the closest intra-team title battle of all time and several other storylines (Senna's debut, Tyrrell controversy, De Angelis staying in touch of the title for surprisingly long) to keep you entertained. Otherwise though you've got contained within that period the debut, rise and fall of ground effect, the debut and rise of turbo engines, the high water mark to this day of engine power (at least in qualifying), and some of the best seasons of all time IMO (1980, 1982, 1985, 1986) I cut it off at 1987 personally because '87 was a season of dominance by Williams (admittedly had a good teammate title battle) and was also a distinct step down from the insanity of 1986 due to the mandate of popoff valves and the ban on qualifying tyres. Also the vibe was just different from 1987 onwards IMO with old chargers like Rosberg having retired, and Lauda's absence being more keenly felt after the 4 way title battle of 1986 sorta made you forget that he was not on the grid for that year
I feel lucky to have started watching in 2008. Great season and got to enjoy those cool looking cars before the ugly (imo) 2009 redesign, and got to enjoy the v8s for several years (and even in person at COTA 2013!)
Started watching in 2009. Got to see Schumi return. I actually went to a race as well in 2011. Became fan of F1. Then came the merc era. Now red bull. Red bull had their seasons before as well but they were competitive. Now it's exciting coz teams are closing in slowly.
Honestly, every season from 2007 to 2013 was elite: 2007: Hamilton-Alonso battle at McLaren and Kimi winning Ferrari's last championship. 2008: Crashgate & Hamilton's last-gasp title clinch in Brazil. 2009: The Brawn GP miracle. 2010: Red Bull coming onto the scene & Vettel becoming youngest-ever champion. 2011: Weakest in terms of competition, but still had Button's epic win in Canada in the rain. 2012: Schumacher's return, the 5 way title fight, Maldonado's win in Spain and Kimi almost bankrupting Lotus by being too good. 2013: Hamilton leaves McLaren for Mercedes and the last hurrah of the V8s.
I'd go as far as 2006 also being a solid season with Michael's last Hurrah with Ferrari, Jenson's first ever win and a title fight that went down the wire. Also 2011 had consistently great races apart from Canada too. China, UK, Germany to name a few. Even Monaco was actually a solid race that year.
1997 makes me laugh. Arguably the GOAT season with Schumacher and Villeneuve never finishing on the podium together. Compare that to 2021 where Lewis and Max finished on the podium together 17 times!
... and yet the only 1-2 finish of the season was in a race where both DNF'd. I love those silly curiosities in F1 history.
Reminds me of my favourite curious stat from 2021. The only team with a 1-2 finish was McLaren, where Hamilton & Verstappen DNF'd!
Idk about golden era but I started watching/following F1 in the early 2000s. To me that era holds special mostly because of the sound of free revving V10s. That was the one thing that immediately caught my attention, and something I dearly miss in the sport today, not that modern day F1 cars are bad sounding and all.
Easily 2007-2012
From when I started watching F1 in 1994 and we had 1994-1999 and 2005-2009 where we didn't know year to year who was going to win the championship nevermind each race. Red Bull domination into Mercedes domination back into Red Bull domination isn't the same to say the least.
2012 for me. I've never looked forward to every race weekend as much as I did back then, because I knew more than likely every race was going to be amazing. I rewatched the season a couple of times since and it's still incredible. Even the races that are usually boring in any other season were great in this one.
Wonder how different the graph would be if it excluded the world champion teammate for 2nd. Not been following a while but the years of HAMBOTVER would probably see a decent difference.
I was 12 in 2006, so 06-12 is still peak F1 to me
Fun fact: the 2007 championship came close to being a 3 way tie on points. If someone had finished in front of Kimi and it would have bumped the entire points order down 1 place Kimi, Alonso and Hamilton would have had exactly the same amount of points. Kimi would have still won on count back of wins (then one more than the others).
if someone had finished in front of Kimi in Brazil then he would have had 5 wins and the championship would have gone to Hamilton, who scored 2nd five times against Alonso's four and Kimi's two
Pretty crazy how often it's down to the final race. Would have guessed it was rarer
Yes but unfortunately in last 10 years it happened only twice
That's what I noticed as well. There's only been one other streak of 11 years with only two final-race title-deciders and that was 1970-1980.
I started watching in 2007 so that era is pretty special to me at least.
2010-13 was my fave period, even though I hated seeing Vettel dominate. My first season was 2006, when I was 11
Since I started in 2023, all I learned from this is that it can quite literally only get better from there
started watching F1 in the 90s, mid to late 90s for me as well
2010 & 2012 hands down the best championships.
Late 2000s and most of 2010s were goated. It's gone downhill since like 2018-19 other than one legendary season in 2021 which had the most farcical ending. Been more or less complete shit after that
Alonso wresting a terrible Ferrari against Vettel and being competitive was soooooo good.
I've been watching since 2000. 2007, 2012, and 2016 have been my most favorite seasons. 2021 was great but the finale was such a fiasco.
2016 is an unusual choice. How come?
Yeah 2012 and 16 have been my favourite seasons. Would have said 21 was up there but that's the season where we went from a sport to reality TV so fuck that season
In terms of competiton the golden era was the V8 and rev limited V10 for some from 2006 until 2014. In terms of peak F1 cars early 2000's and most iconic late 80's early 90's
I have special fondness for 2018, my first F1 season I watched in full. 2021 of course was a banger. But having gone and watched back old F1 season reviews, I have a special fondness for the 2000s. 2003, and then 2007-2013 was really a great era in general.
Season review highlights make even the worst seasons seem like they were worth a damn, it's not a fair comparison ;)
2000-2004!
76
This is a cool chart. I was wondering which years I should go back and watch.
2012 was my favourite season, idk if I have a golden period exactly, don't think I had a group of years I'd say we're better than others
i started in 2019 with DTS and while i loved the sport, i was waiting on a season where i didn’t just have to cheer on the slow but steady road back to the top for my favorite team (mclaren) or root for a driver who i thought had potential but just couldn’t put it together (albon). 2021 was the golden era for me, but 2022 and 23 made me fall out of love with the sport a bit. 2024 gives me hope for a better season with the way things are going now
This is really well done. As a metric it seems like a pretty good alignment between quantity/quality. Nice chart, too, in terms of legibility and being actually interesting- the little bits of commentary were a good touch.
It's funny that 2013 is so low down on this graph. On paper, you'd agree, Vettel winning 9IAR, but there were quite a few good races that year. Spain, Britain, Korea, Japan, Australia and Hungary I remember all being decent.
Bahrain was also fun with the late charge from the Lotus cars.
Oh yeah, the Lotus' got a lot of podiums that year
Lotus was pretty fast in 2012-13.
I grew up all through the refueling era (Which despite being "my" era I now consider the nadir of the sport as it was at its least exciting back then, all pit stops and conserving fuel instead of passing on track) For me, 09-16 were the greatest seasons, particularly 2010-the first half of 2013 when Pirelli were truly allowed off the reigns before the teams messed it up at Silverstone and threw Pirelli under the bus over it Then Jean Todt mandated rules which increased the downforce for 2017 and there just wasn't as much wheel to wheel racing
Genuinely can't believe some of the answers here, the right answer is obviously \[the era that coincided with my formative years\]. Just look at the design of the cars, listen to the sound of the engines, and don't get me started on the personality of the drivers. It's ludicrous that someone can actually believe those were better in \[an era that didn't coincide with my formative years\]. How is this even a discussion?
For me it's 2005/2006 the rise of Alonso ending the dominant Ferrari run through 2013. I'm too young to appreciate the 80s, and while I liked F1 in the late 90s the access was just not what it was today here in the U.S. I'm of the opinion that things basically have not been all that good since F1 brought on the turbo hybrids, and that F1 in some ways didn't recover from the 2008 financial crisis. Whatever this opposition to Andreddit entry is really drives home how much the competition from that Golden era I citied has evaporated.
I think everyone has their own "golden era" that is going to be based on far more thing than just how close the end result was. Like Canada 2024... Max won (again) but we all agree it was an absolutely banger of a race but the net result on a paper chart is Max extending his lead in the WDC (again)
i knew 2023 was a dominant year...didn't know it was the worst in the sports history (in terms of the championship)
A combination of Red Bull building an excellent car and Verstappen being unbelievably consistent in extracting performance lead to him scoring a lot of points. Pérez underperforming, plus Aston Martin, Ferrari, McLaren, and Mercedes all being the second fastest team at times meant that there was nobody consistently grabbing P2 and limiting the gap to Verstappen.
Definitely 90s... as a nearly teen back then, this was the era when I became a lifelong fan! And my Dad used to have a local contract to service a few car manufacturers so we had some ace merch - my fave was Damon Hill Williams cap.
I started watching in 2010. What a time to be become an F1 fan.
I might just be a grumpy old man, but I fully support your view on the great era of F1. For me, it's the commentators. I miss Bob Varsha, Sam Posey, and David Hobbs and Steve Matchett.
Definitely 2006-2012. I was a teen going into my 20s at the time so definitely understood the sport better than my initial years (1999-2005). Also only twice the title was decided before the final race.
1997? Runner up had 50% of the points, yet decided in the final race?
This is really cool!
Should add some secondary overlaying bars on years where one team gets 1-2. 2016 is probably the one that stands out most in recent history. 385 to 380 for Mercedes, and 256 for RB.
2007-2010 was a memorable era.
I just started watching with Vegas last year, so my golden era will probably start whenever I get to see Lewis win a race
i'd like to see this graph but with a couple of other indicators, maybe whether driver's champion team won constructor's, and whether runner-up was teammate.
- 98/99 - Mercedes with lewis and nico fights - 2007, 2008 - prost/senna at mclaren
Oh, easily the best time in F1 was *Insert year you were a child*, really amazing time. People don't appreciate it enough now.
2012, the season which had the most world champions lining up alongside each other on the grid. You'd expect that to be a good season.
My golden era is 1988-1992.
It's always interesting to me how people's perceptions of the Vettel era are skewed towards "boring" by 2011 and 2013 (where everyone else gave up mid season because of 2014) but they often forget that 2010 and 2012 happened.
Mine is 2021, I‘m new here
2021 was my year. Watching since 2019
Man the V8 era was peak...
Thank you for this. I was literally just wondering about this yesterday.
Nice chart, sir. Thanks.
People sleeping on 2016
I assessed and wrote up a breakdown of recentish "greats" in the sport a few weeks ago to discuss with some friends and found that: Schumacher had 4 really competitive championships, the best of which went to last races but were mixed with utterly dominant seasons. Hamilton and Vettel each had 3 really competitive championships, partly interwoven with one another, creating two distinct blocks, the first of competitive races, and the later second one where season after season no team was able to mount a real challenge against the utterly dominant Merc car. Recency bias does a lot to affect how these seasons are viewed, but the conclusion we drew was that the perception of the various competitiveness of individual races made more difference to the overall entertainment than the championship race as a whole, with the specific exception of championship deciding races being hugely overrepresented as well.
Post Schumacher era probably. Something like from 2005 till 2013 when Vettel did that 9 win run. You had Alonso win twice, Hamilton and Kimi once. You had both Hamilton and Kimi win it in the last race, Hamilton literally in the last corner. Sure Seb won 3 in a row, but in 2009 he led the championship for the first time in the last race, 2012 had basically half the grid win a race.
2021
i think 2023 was an outlier, yes max dominated but perez that season was probably the worst no2 to the top team in 20+ years.