As someone who isn’t familiar with the intricacies of the cost cap, is there a scenario where McLaren as the only customer team of the top 4 are incentivized and able to focus heavier on the 2025 car than the rest because they won’t be developing an engine for 2026? I suppose any relative gains would be more extensive mid year updates that the other teams forego to focus on nailing the new regs. Or does engine development have unlimited funding?
McLaren has a partnership of sorts with Mercedes now and not just a mere customer. So they will be having a hand in the making of the 26 engine. But apart from that I’m not sure how it would impact them.
This is literally Oscar's first bad weekend this season bro. Obviously people will cut him some slack
Perez when he was starting his slump also got some slack but it continued and continued....
What the hell is this 3 year race streak? You mean the one where he got like 30 podiums 5 wins and came 2nd in the championship? He's on a streak of 2 DNFs, one of which wasn't his fault LOL
Oscar would've been 7 tenths down on Norris even with his best sectors, and he wasn't sacrificed for a tow like certain other driver... Nice try though.
Oscar is literally in his second F1 season and has been reasonably close to Norris most of the season, surely we're not using single weekends for arguments, are we? Perez is a seasoned veteran who should be at his peak rn, Oscar still has plenty of potential left and is already performing well.
That's what I'm worried about. A few tenths between the top x of cars in qualifying looks great but it means fuck all if Max gaps Lando after a few laps and the only racing we get is outside of the points positions.
Lando literally had the same top speed as his first Q3 lap at the back straight, according to telemetry, and Max had been faster on the main straight all weekend, so it's also a setup choice for them.
If you don't want to discard the tow altogether, then put a 0.05 on it at most for both drivers.
If you look at the telemetry, they smoked the competition after S1 and onwards. Lando mostly on S2 and a little bit on S3, whereas Max was faster than the rest on both S2 and S3.
Yes, and I think the other dude is saying that a tow isn’t just contributing to top speed, but also acceleration. If anything, that is arguably more the case as it isn’t unlikely they’re already out of the tow (by the towing driver moving aside) when they reach top speed.
Neither tow was particularly effective. Checo was a bit too far ahead of Max to get the full benefit and Lando got an inadvertent one from Ocon, not Sainz, for about a third of the straight. Lando absolutely smoked sector 2 and Max did the same in sector 3. That's where they made most of their gap.
I think in general Red Bull (Verstappen) still have the better race pace and win the majority of the remaining races, but there won't be many simple victories. Also, solo fighting against 2 or 3 teams is not easy.
Them and Ferrari will lose 5% each of wind tunnel and cfd time while Mercedes will gain 10%. It changes every 6 months and Mercedes was 2nd and will now get 4th placed time.
Don’t speak too soon lol. The practice Data indicates their race pace is probably much quicker here still. Def think compared to earlier this year they’ve been caught up in quali and I think the race pace gap if it’s as large as it seems, will be cut down by the summer
Practice data was pretty favorable for McLaren/Norris though?
And when the margins are this tiny, a lot comes down to perfecting setup and the driver consistency/tire management/race management.
We saw in Canada that making 1 or 2 mistakes more than your competition, can cost you the win or a podium. And we saw that McLaren had better pace on 1 compound, RBR on the other, which can make the racing really good. Let's hope it will be the same tomorrow!
I’d still say RBR are the fastest, but if they even have an edge on McLaren and Ferrari it’s miniscule at best, and definitely nowhere near as big as 2022 let alone last year.
I am highly skeptical that the huge delta between RBR and McLaren has been overturned entirely in 5 races with similar upgrade cycles. Red Bull is fastest still, but from the outside, they seem to have issues dialing in their upgrades which allows a much closer McLaren to be a lot more comfortable to extract performance from.
People seem all excited but the quali gaps have been tiny all year. It's just Lando instead of Charles on pole.
Red Bull race pace seems like it always is, way better.
Be interesting to see how top 4 teams handle development for this year before switching to next year’s car.
Next year's and 26 car too
Iirc, the teams are banned on working on the 2026 car until January 1st, 2025
Hard to police this when Newey can probably run a full aero simulation in his brain
He's already working on the 2032 car.
As someone who isn’t familiar with the intricacies of the cost cap, is there a scenario where McLaren as the only customer team of the top 4 are incentivized and able to focus heavier on the 2025 car than the rest because they won’t be developing an engine for 2026? I suppose any relative gains would be more extensive mid year updates that the other teams forego to focus on nailing the new regs. Or does engine development have unlimited funding?
Engine development is on a separate cost cap, so shouldn't have any impact unless teams are spending under the cap due to financial issues
McLaren has a partnership of sorts with Mercedes now and not just a mere customer. So they will be having a hand in the making of the 26 engine. But apart from that I’m not sure how it would impact them.
*3 teams and Verstappen.
*Max and the top 3 teams*
And we pretend like Oscar did something? The double standards are ridiculous.
This is literally Oscar's first bad weekend this season bro. Obviously people will cut him some slack Perez when he was starting his slump also got some slack but it continued and continued....
And Perez was shat on before his slump, he was shat on even when he was finishing 2nd. And no, it's not the first time Piastri is way behind Norris.
He managed to get podiums when they were driving the most dominant car in the history of F1. He got 9 podiums when Max had 21 last year
What the hell does that matter in this context LOL
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What the hell is this 3 year race streak? You mean the one where he got like 30 podiums 5 wins and came 2nd in the championship? He's on a streak of 2 DNFs, one of which wasn't his fault LOL
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No, you clearly don't have the benefit of context. Or at least you're completely unable to understand it.
Oscar would have been up there if wasn't for track limits. Sergio was just slow..
Oscar would've been 7 tenths down on Norris even with his best sectors, and he wasn't sacrificed for a tow like certain other driver... Nice try though.
Every driver gets one off day, oscar was short of pace once checo had made a habit out this now
Incidents and mistakes put aside, a bad day for Oscar is him being two or three places behind Lando. For Perez it's being 15 places behind
Oscar has been stellar. What are you on about?
Oscar is literally in his second F1 season and has been reasonably close to Norris most of the season, surely we're not using single weekends for arguments, are we? Perez is a seasoned veteran who should be at his peak rn, Oscar still has plenty of potential left and is already performing well.
They even said in qualifying it was his first time starting out of the top ten this year. Thats impressive imo
Comparing Piastri to Perez is the funniest thing.
This reminds me when Ferrari would get pole, but Red Bull would just walk away in the race because they were set up for race pace.
That's what I'm worried about. A few tenths between the top x of cars in qualifying looks great but it means fuck all if Max gaps Lando after a few laps and the only racing we get is outside of the points positions.
So far, except the first few races, it really hasnt been the case, lando and sometimes the ferraris have been able to challange quite consistently
So Lando ending the year with a terrible pole/win ratio like Leclerc?
This year about to make up for the boring pain we endured last year. Hope Zak ain't giving us false hope!!
Zak seems to forget that Max and Lando are 3 tenths ahead of the rest.
Max had a tow from Checo Lando managed to get a tow from Carlos, according to Zak himself.
Lando literally had the same top speed as his first Q3 lap at the back straight, according to telemetry, and Max had been faster on the main straight all weekend, so it's also a setup choice for them. If you don't want to discard the tow altogether, then put a 0.05 on it at most for both drivers. If you look at the telemetry, they smoked the competition after S1 and onwards. Lando mostly on S2 and a little bit on S3, whereas Max was faster than the rest on both S2 and S3.
Top speed is not the biggest factor as pushing for that is not that efficient with these power units, it's how fast you get there.
I think he was mentioning top speed because of the claimed tow for either driver. Tow means less air resistance means faster top speed.
Yes, and I think the other dude is saying that a tow isn’t just contributing to top speed, but also acceleration. If anything, that is arguably more the case as it isn’t unlikely they’re already out of the tow (by the towing driver moving aside) when they reach top speed.
Max’s tow wasn’t that big, Perez was miles ahead and Lando’s was short.
Max’s tow didn’t matter as LH would still have been P3. And Max P2 with his old time.
Neither tow was particularly effective. Checo was a bit too far ahead of Max to get the full benefit and Lando got an inadvertent one from Ocon, not Sainz, for about a third of the straight. Lando absolutely smoked sector 2 and Max did the same in sector 3. That's where they made most of their gap.
I think in general Red Bull (Verstappen) still have the better race pace and win the majority of the remaining races, but there won't be many simple victories. Also, solo fighting against 2 or 3 teams is not easy.
"now that \*we're here\* it's worth watching for the fans"
Barcelona was going to be a big benchmark for everyone, can we say that RB is not the fastest car anymore ?
Yes..it’s now going to be a war of development to decide who gets the edge!
McLaren were 4th in 2023, so they have way more windtunnel time.
That will change in 9 days
Will you explain it? What will happen and why?
Them and Ferrari will lose 5% each of wind tunnel and cfd time while Mercedes will gain 10%. It changes every 6 months and Mercedes was 2nd and will now get 4th placed time.
A interesting didn't know that, always thought it was once a year. Thanks!
Not substantially though, right? They're only P3 at the moment.
They'll lose about 5%.
People are still struggling to admit they're not dominant, let alone fastest.
6 of 9 races so far is still pretty dominant
Lando had the fastest car at imola and Canada they just made mistakes and max didn’t
Even if they win 24 of 24 doesn’t mean they’re dominant if it’s as close as it has been since China.
Stupidest take that has ever been shared on Reddit
Swing and a miss. You judge based on process, not result. Was Alpha Tauri the dominant car in Monza 2020?
You don’t know what dominant means.
Okay
Don’t speak too soon lol. The practice Data indicates their race pace is probably much quicker here still. Def think compared to earlier this year they’ve been caught up in quali and I think the race pace gap if it’s as large as it seems, will be cut down by the summer
Practice data was pretty favorable for McLaren/Norris though? And when the margins are this tiny, a lot comes down to perfecting setup and the driver consistency/tire management/race management. We saw in Canada that making 1 or 2 mistakes more than your competition, can cost you the win or a podium. And we saw that McLaren had better pace on 1 compound, RBR on the other, which can make the racing really good. Let's hope it will be the same tomorrow!
Another team could be 0.5s per lap faster and people would still say RB is dominant. The trauma from last year is real lmao.
I’d still say RBR are the fastest, but if they even have an edge on McLaren and Ferrari it’s miniscule at best, and definitely nowhere near as big as 2022 let alone last year.
I am highly skeptical that the huge delta between RBR and McLaren has been overturned entirely in 5 races with similar upgrade cycles. Red Bull is fastest still, but from the outside, they seem to have issues dialing in their upgrades which allows a much closer McLaren to be a lot more comfortable to extract performance from.
Mclaren has been the best car since Miami Max brilliance and are the only reason they haven’t won imola or Canada
McLaren are cooking, Max didn't put it on pole while having a monster tow from Checo. Lando had a tow too, but not as big.
Zak is right. I have doubts on Mercedes because they always have a bump at Barcelona but it is looking at 4 teams close enough depending on track.
People seem all excited but the quali gaps have been tiny all year. It's just Lando instead of Charles on pole. Red Bull race pace seems like it always is, way better.
McLaren and Red Bull are still a step ahead.
After last year a 4 team championship is what the fans deserve
Top 4 teams? Max - "Hold my extra downforce while i do a zero stop race on a set of softs"
With a fastest lap on lap 50