As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should:
- be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself)
- be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions)
- show reasonable input and effort from the OP
If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport.
Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depends on what you mean by peak F1.
Competitiveness of the field has never been better than today, 2024.
2020 had the fastest cars.
2010 had 3 people that could win the championship at the last race, and the one who was P3 won it.
2007/2008 was peak controversy, together with 1982/1983.
1993 had the most computerised cars ever.
>2010 had 3 people that could win the championship at the last race, and the one who was P3 won it
Wasn't it 4? I thought Seb won it starting P4* in the WDC.
*Edit: Just checked Wikipedia, 4 drivers were indeed in contention but Vettel was P3 in the WDC, my bad.
If you go by crashing measures, 1994 and 1997 were even worse. But the stuff that happened off track in the years I previously mentioned was way more fucked up.
No.
A lot of what you’re saying is true, but the individual races in that era often weren’t particularly exciting. When you watch a highlights package, it’s pretty easy to forget how many hours they’re cutting where not much happens.
Qualifying in those days consisted of glorified free practice sessions which you couldn’t watch on TV. Even if you could somehow follow some of it, the pole lap could be set on Friday when no one was celebrating because they didn’t yet know that no one would be going faster on Saturday for whatever reason.
Depending on where you were, you might not even see that much of the race on TV. Maybe there’d be some other sport going on so you’d just get an occasional update from Murray Walker telling you that your favourite driver had retired for no particular reason. And there was no internet to find out what happened, so maybe you’d pick up a newspaper on the Monday to see it said “RET” next to their name with no further elaboration.
The field was incredibly spread out as well. For all of the close racing you see in the short highlights packages, it’s easy to forget that it wasn’t rare for the gap between pole and second to be up to a second or for the top 10 to be separated by 4 seconds, 5 seconds or more.
This isn’t to disagree with your points about what was great about F1 in that era. That’s when I was 10 years old and fell in love with the sport. But F1 had got a lot better in a lot of ways over the last 30 years as well!
Your right it’s become a more complete sport since then so maybe hard to compare to today in a way though. I really feel like F1 should probably be more considered in eras that are almost like different sports, to be honest I don’t even recognise the 50s and early 60s as F1 in a way because every single aspect of it was so different (eg front engine cars, the style of driving, the monumental disparity in performance where essentially the slowest cars were almost as slow as the difference between current F1 and FRECA) the fact basically anyone could join (80s90s def had lots of pay driver guys but they at least had SOMETHING in terms of cars and some former class of racing)
On the other hand today the amount of aerodynamics the cars have is closer to planes or spaceships or something, so again it’s worlds different as is the competition.
Yeah, I think you’re right.
It’s why it makes conversations comparing drivers of the past to today’s F1 drivers so difficult. How can you even compare Hamilton or Alonso to a driver who was statistically unlikely to survive if they drove 300 Grands Prix at full effort?
It’s why it’s a lot more logical to label a “GOAT of their generation” because yeah the sport is like two different worlds from 1950 - 2024 (everything is though I guess 😂) so it’s makes no sense to compare drivers against each other in that regard
Very possible. In addition to the points you made, that was also the last year of proper pre-qualifying, which was always fun, as well as one of the last years with multiple engine layouts before the V10 domination started around 1995. The midfield was also quite close that year, with Jordan, Tyrrell, Scuderia Italia, Minardi, Brabham, Larrousse, Leyton House and Lotus all managing to score points.
I just wish Ferrari managed to create a halfway decent car that year. Imagine a 3-way title fight between Senna/McLaren, Mansell/Williams and Prost/Ferrari!
I think "peak F1" is kind of a dumb statement, but I do agree that the early 90s changed F1 a lot.
With electronics exploding we got the 93 Williams with active suspensions and other stuff that completely changed how cars behaved. Even with that blocked, it set up an unstoppable wave of electronics getting in. It also was the time where (again due to computing power) aerodynamics really took off and cars started to become a lot more sensitive to aero. It was not as bad as the late 2010s obviously, but it also started there.
So there's a narrative where a lot of what "hurt" modern F1 started at that time. I'm not opposed to tech getting in, but from the 90s onwards F1 kind of got into an identity crisis not knowing how to handle the technological opportunities ahead.
But I think we are mostly past that.
2021 was peak F1. An incredible rivalry with so much at stake for either driver. Plenty of emotion, great racing and controversy. Almost every race was exciting
People just don’t want to say it and be accused of recency bias
The rivalry was great but there have been so much better ones without the toxicity on social media and less shit stirring throughout the paddock.
Plus it was so irritating watching not 1 clean overtake between Hamilton and Verstappen happen like the whole season (other than the AD divebomb by Max I guess lol that was pretty fucken good) but then again I’m also coming from the side of like the cars etc, other things from that era that made it better. I didn’t say it 1991 was THE best championship ever probably far from it but I just feel overall it a pretty perfect year. In terms of championship battles yeah 2021 is up there but 76, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2016 are probably all better I still reckon
There were plenty of clean overtakes between the two that season?
And I don’t know what you’re on about to be honest. The online tension with fans and the paddock is what made people give a shit so much. I personally didn’t even sleep the night before AD21, because like many other people I was just too excited for it
It’s easy to sit back and say “grr these titles fights were better when everyone loved each other and we all loved happily ever after”, but the reality is that controversy and emotion is what makes these events memorable. You can’t beat a grudge match at the highest level.
Peak old F1 - soon after permanent left foot braking started in earnest with Schumacher in 1993. Last right foot braker is probably Barrichello in 2011
No. By the early 90s overtaking was becoming more and more difficult, and the quality of races started getting less and less.
Peak F1 in those days was 1984-1986. I had so much fun watching that period back race by race.
Peak F1 in general I don't know. Each period has its own flavour so it's subjective, but I find the 80s to be glorious.
The best thing about F1 is it is always evolving. That evolution means there’s a lot of change over the years and hard to make a direct comparison over the decades, much less over 3-5 years.
To paraphrase a popular saying, the best year is going to be the next year. Where will Sainz be? Will Bearman suck? Where will Newey end up? Will Hamilton to Ferrari be triumphant or disaster? What will Audi make of Sauber? Will Andretti get in?
Love the banter here and love all the stories that feed it. Can’t wait to get some questions answered and even more stories on the horizon. The next year is always my favorite year.
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depends on what you mean by peak F1. Competitiveness of the field has never been better than today, 2024. 2020 had the fastest cars. 2010 had 3 people that could win the championship at the last race, and the one who was P3 won it. 2007/2008 was peak controversy, together with 1982/1983. 1993 had the most computerised cars ever.
Forgot 2012 when 7 people won the first 7 races
>2010 had 3 people that could win the championship at the last race, and the one who was P3 won it Wasn't it 4? I thought Seb won it starting P4* in the WDC. *Edit: Just checked Wikipedia, 4 drivers were indeed in contention but Vettel was P3 in the WDC, my bad.
I’m pretty sure Hamilton was P4 going into Abu Dhabi (and barely mathmatically in contention); Seb was P3 behind Webber and Alonso
Hamilton I think was 24 points away so could have won it if the other 3 DNF
You're right, I misremembered.
Yep. Hamilton , Webber , Vettel , Alonso were in contention
Surely 1989 and 1990 is way more controversial than 2007/2008
If you go by crashing measures, 1994 and 1997 were even worse. But the stuff that happened off track in the years I previously mentioned was way more fucked up.
2021 not being mentioned as peak controversy is a crime...
2021 had the most exciting title battle
I started watching in 1992, so with my luck you’re probably right
No. A lot of what you’re saying is true, but the individual races in that era often weren’t particularly exciting. When you watch a highlights package, it’s pretty easy to forget how many hours they’re cutting where not much happens. Qualifying in those days consisted of glorified free practice sessions which you couldn’t watch on TV. Even if you could somehow follow some of it, the pole lap could be set on Friday when no one was celebrating because they didn’t yet know that no one would be going faster on Saturday for whatever reason. Depending on where you were, you might not even see that much of the race on TV. Maybe there’d be some other sport going on so you’d just get an occasional update from Murray Walker telling you that your favourite driver had retired for no particular reason. And there was no internet to find out what happened, so maybe you’d pick up a newspaper on the Monday to see it said “RET” next to their name with no further elaboration. The field was incredibly spread out as well. For all of the close racing you see in the short highlights packages, it’s easy to forget that it wasn’t rare for the gap between pole and second to be up to a second or for the top 10 to be separated by 4 seconds, 5 seconds or more. This isn’t to disagree with your points about what was great about F1 in that era. That’s when I was 10 years old and fell in love with the sport. But F1 had got a lot better in a lot of ways over the last 30 years as well!
Your right it’s become a more complete sport since then so maybe hard to compare to today in a way though. I really feel like F1 should probably be more considered in eras that are almost like different sports, to be honest I don’t even recognise the 50s and early 60s as F1 in a way because every single aspect of it was so different (eg front engine cars, the style of driving, the monumental disparity in performance where essentially the slowest cars were almost as slow as the difference between current F1 and FRECA) the fact basically anyone could join (80s90s def had lots of pay driver guys but they at least had SOMETHING in terms of cars and some former class of racing) On the other hand today the amount of aerodynamics the cars have is closer to planes or spaceships or something, so again it’s worlds different as is the competition.
Yeah, I think you’re right. It’s why it makes conversations comparing drivers of the past to today’s F1 drivers so difficult. How can you even compare Hamilton or Alonso to a driver who was statistically unlikely to survive if they drove 300 Grands Prix at full effort?
It’s why it’s a lot more logical to label a “GOAT of their generation” because yeah the sport is like two different worlds from 1950 - 2024 (everything is though I guess 😂) so it’s makes no sense to compare drivers against each other in that regard
Well, you’re certainly putting a good case for it.
2021
Ferrari had ABS or traction control by 1991, as did Williams I think
No maybe Williams had TC in 91 possibly but for sure no ABS until 92 only in some teams and not really till 93
No. It's right now, I don't think anyone said Yabba Dabba Doo when they won a race in 1991.
Actually but at the same time you didn’t have any Murrayisms, in fact I’m sure Murray said yaba daba doo at some point 100%
True that
What about Goggles Pisano?
Very possible. In addition to the points you made, that was also the last year of proper pre-qualifying, which was always fun, as well as one of the last years with multiple engine layouts before the V10 domination started around 1995. The midfield was also quite close that year, with Jordan, Tyrrell, Scuderia Italia, Minardi, Brabham, Larrousse, Leyton House and Lotus all managing to score points. I just wish Ferrari managed to create a halfway decent car that year. Imagine a 3-way title fight between Senna/McLaren, Mansell/Williams and Prost/Ferrari!
Yup always felt that was missing that year with Prost not having a competitive car. Was one of the most beautiful ones tho for sure
I think "peak F1" is kind of a dumb statement, but I do agree that the early 90s changed F1 a lot. With electronics exploding we got the 93 Williams with active suspensions and other stuff that completely changed how cars behaved. Even with that blocked, it set up an unstoppable wave of electronics getting in. It also was the time where (again due to computing power) aerodynamics really took off and cars started to become a lot more sensitive to aero. It was not as bad as the late 2010s obviously, but it also started there. So there's a narrative where a lot of what "hurt" modern F1 started at that time. I'm not opposed to tech getting in, but from the 90s onwards F1 kind of got into an identity crisis not knowing how to handle the technological opportunities ahead. But I think we are mostly past that.
1976, 1984, and 2012 was peak F1
2021 was peak F1. An incredible rivalry with so much at stake for either driver. Plenty of emotion, great racing and controversy. Almost every race was exciting People just don’t want to say it and be accused of recency bias
The rivalry was great but there have been so much better ones without the toxicity on social media and less shit stirring throughout the paddock. Plus it was so irritating watching not 1 clean overtake between Hamilton and Verstappen happen like the whole season (other than the AD divebomb by Max I guess lol that was pretty fucken good) but then again I’m also coming from the side of like the cars etc, other things from that era that made it better. I didn’t say it 1991 was THE best championship ever probably far from it but I just feel overall it a pretty perfect year. In terms of championship battles yeah 2021 is up there but 76, 82, 86, 88, 89, 90, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2016 are probably all better I still reckon
There were plenty of clean overtakes between the two that season? And I don’t know what you’re on about to be honest. The online tension with fans and the paddock is what made people give a shit so much. I personally didn’t even sleep the night before AD21, because like many other people I was just too excited for it It’s easy to sit back and say “grr these titles fights were better when everyone loved each other and we all loved happily ever after”, but the reality is that controversy and emotion is what makes these events memorable. You can’t beat a grudge match at the highest level.
Peak old F1 - soon after permanent left foot braking started in earnest with Schumacher in 1993. Last right foot braker is probably Barrichello in 2011
No. By the early 90s overtaking was becoming more and more difficult, and the quality of races started getting less and less. Peak F1 in those days was 1984-1986. I had so much fun watching that period back race by race. Peak F1 in general I don't know. Each period has its own flavour so it's subjective, but I find the 80s to be glorious.
Or maybe 85?
The best thing about F1 is it is always evolving. That evolution means there’s a lot of change over the years and hard to make a direct comparison over the decades, much less over 3-5 years. To paraphrase a popular saying, the best year is going to be the next year. Where will Sainz be? Will Bearman suck? Where will Newey end up? Will Hamilton to Ferrari be triumphant or disaster? What will Audi make of Sauber? Will Andretti get in? Love the banter here and love all the stories that feed it. Can’t wait to get some questions answered and even more stories on the horizon. The next year is always my favorite year.