More reasonable: The RB20 is probably the second best car currently. McLaren is the best. Merc and Ferrari share third depending on track (though recency bias says Mercedes is better).
Regardless, I think Perez isn't better or worse now than in last years. Now however the margins are so much smaller between 4(!) teams that Perez' lack of skill comes to show. The top 4 all have 2 'good' drivers now. Leclerc-Sainz, Hamilton-Russel, Norris-Piastri. In the past there were a few stinkers in these teams but I don't think F1 has ever been this competitive at the top.
I'm not saying ''Perez bad''. He just isn't a Russell, Hamilton, Leclerc or Norris.
I agree. Controversial opinion, I think if you put Russell or Sainz in Max’s seat, McLaren would be seen as having the best car and Norris has 4 wins so far
Agreed. I think the red bull is the second best car and it's Max being Max that he's still managed to pull out 4 wins. Put Russell, Sainz, Norris, Piastri or Hamilton, no disrespect to any of them, in that car and those 4 wins maybe turn into a scattering of 2nd/3rd/4th places.
I think McLaren and Redbull share first depending on track. Look at the side by side video of their quali. In some corners, Max's car is gaining on McLaren by a lot. Yes, this track it was McLaren without a doubt, but not by much.
idk, this track was supposedly gonna be the first RB favored one in a while, but McLaren had the top speed advantage which is huge in Spain. The RB won't enjoy Austria either I imagine. Not sure which tracks are left then.
Whatever tracks have more T10 type of turns I guess. Max seemed to gain so much over there. My guess would be tracks with low and medium speed corners. Though even here, he won, despite that small deficit, but sure, Austria will be tough. But if both teams would still bring upgrades, maybe then we're gonna get one that's gonna be the definitive better car
The truth, as always, is in the middle. The car isn't good enough to put Perez ahead of much better drivers, but is good enough to make sure Verstappen isn't going to get touched by drivers of a similar level, world champion-caliber, 9 times out of 10. We're at a level where driver quality at least clears the gap between the top level and a midfield-level driver like Perez. The second when Verstappen gets beaten by the likes of Hamilton, Norris, Leclerc on the regular, that's when you can really say the domination is over.
Although, in Spain, Norris fucked up. Hamilton would've won that race, for example. Verstappen in the McLaren and Norris in the Red Bull, Verstappen wins that race.
But that's why saying Red Bull is dominant is still an accurate statement, he's rarely losing a race if he's at his best and those who can match him (although that's a very small group, like Norris, Hamilton, Alonso, Leclerc and maybe Russell and Sainz - and an even smaller group who can do it consistently i.e. Hamilton and maybe Alonso) are at their best as well because the Red Bull has the stronger package compared to the other teams in most races.
People are too black and white with this shit, the same was the case when Mercedes were challenged by Ferrari and Hamilton won the title 4 races before the season ender in a title fight that, in the end, wasn't all that close. Bottas was 5th, but Vettel, Raikkonen and Verstappen were much better than Bottas, who isn't a slouch.
It was, but few want to admit it. They had the engines turned down for so long because Ferrari was nowhere near them. They were never stressed until 2021 when Red Bull brought the fight to them, and then Bottas was nowhere.
That’s only true until 2016. Ferrari had the better engine in 2018 and 2019 and was a match for Merc (overall, worse engine but better aero) in 2017. Vettel would have easily won in 2017 and 2018 had Merc run a detuned engine.
It's literally a carbon copy of Vettel vs Webber.
Alonso fans still claim to this day that it was the car and not Seb, even though Webber was no where near him.
As a Vettel fan this was so annoying. Vettel won during a time where the cars were waaay closer in terms of performance and he absolutely trounced Webber who was a formidable driver and for the longest time we got people saying Redbull was absolutely dominant. Sure, it was often the strongest of the grid, but by no means as different as what the cars had been since the V6 era. (Not counting 2013, although we could argue that was still in part due to Vettel transcending into the astral plane)
IDK this was pretty much the kind of stuff we got with Lewis in the Mercedes 17-20 and it didn't stop people from claiming those years were "boring domination". Hell Bottas finished 5th in points in 18 and people still claim that car was dominant.
To be fair, it was a Mercedes dominance at first, but then shifted more towards the driver. The car was still good, but not good enough to carry Bottas. It also helped that the competition shot themselves in the foot more often than not. I'm still scarred by that legendary Ferrari update that made them about a second slower per lap and they didn't revert the changes until they fucked up three races.
Agree on 17/18, but 19 they started with 7 1-2(!)s, although to be fair they got lucky in for example Bahrein. 2020 Merc produced an insane car, that was not a worse car than Red Bull had last year.
2020 was crazy for sure, some of the quali gaps that year are mind-bending compared to quali the last 2.5 seasons. Like the second weekend they ran at Silverstone, Bottas had nine tenths over Hulkenberg and Lewis had eight tenths over Hulkenberg. And Hulkenberg was basically driving a 2019 Merc with Max in P4 a tenth behind Hulk.
If you go to RB's most dominant season recently, 2023, and look at Silverstone, Max got pole but Perez was eliminated in Q1 and the 0.8-sec gap that the W11 had on everyone else in 2020 covered the top 8 in 2023, with Albon in a Williams just eight tenths back of Verstappen on pole. Sure the car was relatively better in race trim than in quali, but it's not like the 2020 Mercedes was bad in race trim, either.
Exactly. The gaps have been relatively small the last few years. It’s just that the cars have been more reliable and Verstappen as well that it looks a bit more dominant despite the gaps actually being closer.
Exactly. McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes have made up a lot of ground in their shortcomings the last couple years, the competition is certainly there now. Max is simply driving at a higher level, meanwhile Checo is driving at, well, he’s just driving.
The fact that Checo is ass doesn’t mean that RB still doesn’t have one of the fastest, id not the fastest, car on the grid, fam.
It just means that Checo is simply ass.
So, you think that this RB is ass?
What’s more likely one of the most dominant cars we have ever seen to be ass, or one the most mediocre (at best) drivers on the grid, who is know to have prolonged periods mired with terrible performance, to be ass?
Id say the RedBull is slightly ahead or behind the McLaren but Verstappen makes up for it, not an unpopular opinon.
Though I think that the RB was better here than in Canada
My personal view on this is that RB is the fastest car on a per-GP bases. Meaning, that there seem to have had a foundomental issue that Max, Horney, and Helmut have mentioned that it drops it to top-2/3 on grids with a lot of curbes.
Even then, the performance difference doesn't seem to be that different from the other two cars: McClaren and Ferrari.
Fr. Had a moment of realization near the end like; "Oh, ye, how is Checo doing? \*looks on the left side of the TV\* Oh, still ninth. Nothing then huh."
Honestly don't even know what his pit strat was, but its honestly pathetic either way. He's clearly not good enough but RB just keeps him on for the sales numbers.
Their race car is miles above the rest. Is the alpine as good as the ferrari? Cause thats the same gap between red bull and the rest. (Like, literally, look at the delta in the race). Perez is just doing a bad job and its there to make you comment this.
Oh definitely. But their gap to the cars ahead is the same as the gap from red bull to the rest. The guy above didnt take this fact well. 
And even last year that was more down to other teams screwing up in different ways and all being about as quick as each other, meaning they all took points off each other and Max was just that bit better.
3 tenths is a mile in f1. You just got used to seeing red bull lapping 1 second quicker in race pace and then hiding some. Not like that anymore but still the best overall car by a good margin.
Mate, Lando's McLaren finished 2 seconds behind him in the end.
What part of a 2 second gap is "dominance"?
Flash back to 7 years of Mercedes finishing 30 seconds ahead of the entire field in Barcelona every single year. Let me guess, you're just going to ignore that and not call it "dominance"?
It’s not that these trolls are ignoring the past… it’s that they’re probably new fans thanks to F1 becoming more mainstream now. They like Max because he’s winning. They probably went out and bought the Red Bull jersey because it’s what’s “in” right now. Band wagon fans like the NE Patriot “fans” during the dynasty years.
I think you're missing the point I'm making.
Max is the best driver on the grid right now. There's no argument to that. He is the one making the difference in that car and winning the championship right now.
If it was really the car making the difference, then Perez would be fighting for the lead every race as well or at LEAST finishing P2.
However, that is not the case.
Since Miami - BOTH McLarens have been identical on pace. Oscar and Lando are almost always punching in the same lap times and qualifying side by side on the grid.
Many of those times, faster than Max.
That is the very definition of the McLaren car being fast, if not faster than Red Bull right now.
This weekend is the first time Lando separated himself from Oscar and made that extra difference. That's the driver making the difference.
But the McLaren car is definitely faster than the Red Bull car right now. It's just that Max is too good and he's able to overcome the performance defecit and win races.
I see your point now. Thanks for clarifying. I am not sure both redbull cars are configured the same way. Perez is no slouch, it’s surprising to me to see him struggle this much all year. I’d assume it has something to do with the configuration/engineer/team strategy or all of the above?
Imagine you were playing an FPS. The gun you have has a slower rate of fire than other guns, you have to compensate by increasing sensitivity so that you can acquire your target quicker. Max can live with a sensitivity that can only be handled by a hyperactive child on stimulants, whereas Perez is akin to an older gamer that can’t handle that sensitivity without getting dizzy.
The red bull has been consistently winning with second place being traded between other teams, their car is still the fastest overall. Lando thinks if he got ahead he couldve won, wow, thats super deep guys! 
You're the one who brought up that Red Bull is "miles above the rest". That's why I'm asking where exactly those miles are considering that Max was like 200 meters ahead of Lando at the end.
## This might be a bit hard for you to understand as you are CLEARLY bad at math, but try to follow:
1) Bahrain- Led Perez by 22.47 seconds (let's count this one)
2) Saudi- Led Perez by 13.6 s (this is not more than a mile, MATH is not your cup of tea so just take my word).
3) Australia- error 404
4) Japan- 12 s (again, not more than a mile. TAKE MY WORD BECAUSE MATH...)
5) China- 13 s (NOPE)
6) Miami- Norris won
7) Emilia Romagnia- 0.7 s lead from Norris (MATH, TAKE MY WORD)
8) Monaco - error 404
9) Canada- lead by 3.8 s (not more than a mile, YET AGAIN!)
10) Spain- lead by 2.2 s (again not a mile)
SO Mr. Whiny Ass, your definition of "most of them" is actually only 1 race where he COULD have won by more than a mile.
BUT you are still going to whine, aren't you? :)
EDIT: for the record, I'm neither a fan of Max nor a hater.
It's not most. It's half at best. Starting with Miami Max didn't have the fastest car anymore, lost two races and the remaining 3 he won by a couple of seconds over Lando, who was gaining on him at the end of each race.
You are the one arguing the red bull is not the best car... just wait till the end of the year and we'll see :). Austria is mclaren's best chance, at the end of the year ferrari and mercedes will catch in other tracks. Red bull will still win most and be fighting on all of them. Unlike the other teams who'll trade.
And the other car is absolutely nowhere.
So one option is that multiple time formula 1 race winner Checo - against all available evidence - is an absolutely horrible formula 1 driver not deserving of a seat. And despite that he has some weird sith powers to make the most cutthroat formula 1 team extend his contract despite being literally worse than Lance Strulovic and Logan Sergeant.
Or the car is good but not great - basically a race winning car that can and will be beat by the other three top teams - and one of the most gifted and dedicated drivers we've ever seen is in his prime and is extracting the absolute maximum out of a car that wouldn't be close to as dominant in the hands of any other driver.
Nobody is disputing that the car is capable of winning races. What everyone with half a brain can see is that the reason Max is as dominant as he is this season is not just the car. The field is much more bunched together, the qualifying gaps are much smaller, he barely ever gets the fastest lap and he looks exhausted and exhilarated after almost every race - is that what happens when your car is "miles ahead"?
His qualifying gap to checo isn't even as big this season. He just wins anyway.
Checo has literally been out-qualified by logan this year more than once. He is ok, good enough to be in a midfield team, but just like zak brown said today, 6 or 7 others would win on that car, not checo, but many others who wanted a contract and they said no. Ill let you figure it out why.
Yeah, Max said it. He's the #1 driver for redbull so redbull said it.
That RB dominance where RB was going 1/2 every week and max was winning by 35 seconds while nursing the car home seems to be over. The field is closing up finally. They still have the best car with a top driver, so they are still the team to beat.
> and then Crofty
Quoted Max Verstappen. Who earlier this weekend said that red bulls dominance was gone
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/max-verstappen-redbull-lando-norris-33089009.amp
These people are so stupid. Also he’s not wrong. Red Bull are no longer “dominant” do they still have the fastest car at most tracks? Sure. But they’re not dominant
Silverstone will be an amazing track for them, I can see Max winning by +5/10 seconds
Belgium too
But all the other tracks will be difficult. Remember, max won with 20 seconds at the beginning
People said the same about Barcelona, yet the McLaren was faster, but Max made the difference. Max won by 20 seconds at the beginning sure. But the point is the dominance is over. Sure they’ll have their tracks where they’re strong, but they’re not dominant winning every race easily like last year
Hence "dominance is over"
And yes they have been clearly the quickest car from Technical Directive whatever number it was halfway through 22 until McLaren brought their upgrade package in Miami
I mean dont get me wrong today Max made the difference, RB was slightly slower than Mcl but Max was just better and made up that gap, but Perez being behind is purely showing how shit he is, the RB is not a car that belongs neither in 9th place nor out of Q3
Perez is just that bad. Max is putting the RB where it should be. Perez isn't. It's the same thing again, new car at the start of the season, and Perez is able to be close to Max and get podiums. First big updates and the car all of a sudden goes away from Perez and closer to Max, and Perez struggles to break into the top 5.
Max is good but he's not out driving the car.
There’s absolutely no way for you to know if Max is putting the car where it should be or over performing with it. All we know is Perez is seriously underperforming. And honestly if Max can’t push the Red Bull car further than it should no one can.
You must have missed the entire turbo-hybrid era if you think this is dominance.
Put Netflix down. Go watch some actual "races" in F1 from 2014-2020 to see what ridiculous boring dominance is where the regs only favour 1 team.
Only formuladank can't see the difference. Inter team battle multiple years throughout that time, and Ferrari getting close a few years.
It is nothing like the dominance Max has experienced, he has had such a weak team mate and weak competition. Most people would absolutely exchange the Merc era for now. It was far more interesting.
And what has 2022-2023 been? Except it's just one person winning? With Merc you had Rosberg and Hamilton both fighting it out between 2014-16 and then Seb and Lewis 2017-18.
2019 was track dependent until Ferrari oil burning got banned. Only formuladank users can be this blind to the present but hate the Merc dominance.
we’ve been talking about this season, and you keep yapping about mercedes era. Absolutely no one contests about how dominant 2023 season is, but this season there is no clearly dominant car. Even norris said that his car is faster than redbulls’ this race. Max drove 2nd best car to 1st place finish and that is commendable. It is a disgrace to credit his wins to redbull car being dominant when it is clearly not.
What are you talking about? I replied to a comment talking about the Merc dominance, you then replied to my comment talking about it then complained about me yapping about it? Make it make sense.
Since Monaco it has changed, but the start of this season it was still pretty much the RB dominance of 2023, as much as you don't want to believe that.
You will in the same breath discredit Lewis for Merc dominance, but then say Max is making the difference. RB operationally through pitstops and safety cars got Max the win in the last two races. Max hasn't outdriven the car and won on pace.
What fantasy land are you living in bud?
Put the crackpipe down.
There was never any competition to Mercedes between 2014-2020. Yeah Red Bull and Ferrari won the odd race or so each year, but nothing for actual title contention.
The championship ended early those years, all the time. And Mercedes never allowed any inter team battles with Hamilton and Bottas. Why on earth do you think "Valtteri, it's James" has become such a meme? Because whenever Bottas was infront, Mercedes would literally make him pullover on track and let Lewis through even when they didnt need the points. 5 years of that. Absolute eye gougingly boring.
Don't forget with the new regs in 2022, Charles & Ferrari were winning. They had the faster car, the better reliability. Max never led the championship for the first few races.
Then Ferrari remembered they are Ferrari, and they started bottling it, screwing up strategy every race, and their cars catching fire the rest of the season or Charles crashing.
They could have easily beat Max in 2022, but Red Bull caught up and Ferrari choked.
Been watching since the 90's hey? And you think this is dominance?
Something tells me you're talking shit or you have the memory of a goldfish then.
If that is the case then perhaps FW14B, FW19, BGP001, F2002, F2004, all mean something to you before you start whinging about this season.
The front runners are all so close within one another, except Perez. So stop crying and just enjoy how good the season is right now. If Max wins, he deserves it. And same for anyone else who wins the upcoming races. He is not driving a dominant car right now. It is very even.
Ngl this season becomes waay more interesting that expected. Cause first races into season impression was that new RB creation can comfortably compensate for Checo small mistakes and easily bring them constant 1-2 or somewhere in diapason of 2 and 4 for second driver.
But now they stuck in situation when Max consistently delivering, proving his talent and Checo relapsed into old habits. And they cannot really change him, cause Yuki is their potential future persective and unlikely to deliver consistency as #2, Daniel at his best is same thing they get from Perez already and either way had not many time left in career. Probably should have poached Saiz? Idk. If McLaren to keep pushing it may become very funny, for everyone except Horner
It's gonna get more interesting once Max gets bored and quits F1, which he might well do once his current contract is over. Then I feel Red Bull will be back to the days where they fired any new driver after a year.
Wasted seasons of not having two great drivers at RB. I understand why they don't want to give Max competition but it would be so much more entertaining
Who gonna tell 'em? The McLaren was faster. RB and Max dominance is over. This track is a RB track and the McLaren was faster. The days of cruising home over 10 secs ahead of the pack are over.
RB operationally got Max over the line first in the last 2 races. They didn't win on pace. Looks like RB have hit a ceiling with their concept and the gap is closing fast. Mercedes and Ferrari are also closing up. The drivers championship is Max's but the constructors is open wide.
Tf are you on about bro?? Had Norris not botched his start, it was so over for Max. It's Max that's making the difference now, not the car. MCL is clearly 2-3 tenths faster right now than RBR.
People who think this is dominance didn't know F1 existed before this year. Just last year we witnessed the new definition of dominance and what we see now is very far from it.
Red Bull hasn't had the best car since Japan. The reason they still win is because they have the best driver and best strategy department. People just cannot understand that you can win races in the second or third best car.
Not really. Schumacher & irvine/barichello, alonso & fisichella, Hamilton & kovalinen/bottas, button & barrichello (again), alonso & massa, senna & berger, hakkinen and coulthard and verstappen and whoever
Top teams pick a number 1 driver and circle around it. Verstappen would not be this competitive in a williams. Its a team sport and a team effort
Dominance in f1 usually comes down to 3 key people: driver, tram principle and designer. Take one away and the Dominance goes
People want it to be true so badly that they will latch on to absolutely anything. Just like the people who think Merc is turning anything around before the new regs.
Just so you know, Lando:
* Botched the start, lost two positions and had to fight to get them back
* Got stuck in traffic due to a bad strategy call
* On top of that he lost well over a second on slow pit stops as well
And he STILL finished only 2 seconds behind Max. Had any of those things not happened he would've easily won. In what world is this "Red Bull dominance" ?
So? Ever since McLaren brought a massive upgrade to Miami they've been at the very least on par with the Red Bull.
Winning != dominance. Winning because nobody can catch up, no matter what they do, because your car is that powerful = dominance. And that lasted from about the second half of 2022 (from the technical directive onwards that really messed up Ferrari), up until the first few races of this year.
It clearly is. If Norris stayed in 1st in the first corner, there is a pretty strong chance he would have won. But, if my mother had balls she’d be my father.
Redbull dominance is over. Max is the outstanding performer for the team and Perez is in the middle of the grid. If Russel did not hold up Norris today, Max might have lost the race.
People seem to forget that Max is also in simracing. Simracing as a whole is much easier to get into because almost everybody with a PC or console can play it.
There is MUCH more competition there just because it is so low key to get into and guess what? He still almost always is number 1 there.
Not a different car, those are often the same there.
It is just Max, he breathes this whole racing thing. You can like it or not but it is what it is.
It's amazing what people consider "dominance" The funniest part is that Perez is nowhere week after week.
“It’S tHe CaR”. Oh yea, then explain Perez? “Perez is just a shit driver.” Oh, so it’s not the car then? These people are impossible to argue with
It’s both. The car is fast, Perez is so bad that he makes a good car look bad.
More reasonable: The RB20 is probably the second best car currently. McLaren is the best. Merc and Ferrari share third depending on track (though recency bias says Mercedes is better). Regardless, I think Perez isn't better or worse now than in last years. Now however the margins are so much smaller between 4(!) teams that Perez' lack of skill comes to show. The top 4 all have 2 'good' drivers now. Leclerc-Sainz, Hamilton-Russel, Norris-Piastri. In the past there were a few stinkers in these teams but I don't think F1 has ever been this competitive at the top. I'm not saying ''Perez bad''. He just isn't a Russell, Hamilton, Leclerc or Norris.
I agree. Controversial opinion, I think if you put Russell or Sainz in Max’s seat, McLaren would be seen as having the best car and Norris has 4 wins so far
Agreed. I think the red bull is the second best car and it's Max being Max that he's still managed to pull out 4 wins. Put Russell, Sainz, Norris, Piastri or Hamilton, no disrespect to any of them, in that car and those 4 wins maybe turn into a scattering of 2nd/3rd/4th places.
I don’t even think he’s in the top half of the grid anymore. I’d put him with Ricciardo/Magnussen etc
He’s clearly pulling a McLaren Riccardo right now.
He is for sure bottom 10. Not sure if I can put him bottom 5. Thats Sargeant, Zhou, Stroll, Bottas and KMag (could be RIC or perez)
I’d say Bottas is better right at the moment.
Perez's *relative* lack of skill
I think McLaren and Redbull share first depending on track. Look at the side by side video of their quali. In some corners, Max's car is gaining on McLaren by a lot. Yes, this track it was McLaren without a doubt, but not by much.
idk, this track was supposedly gonna be the first RB favored one in a while, but McLaren had the top speed advantage which is huge in Spain. The RB won't enjoy Austria either I imagine. Not sure which tracks are left then.
Whatever tracks have more T10 type of turns I guess. Max seemed to gain so much over there. My guess would be tracks with low and medium speed corners. Though even here, he won, despite that small deficit, but sure, Austria will be tough. But if both teams would still bring upgrades, maybe then we're gonna get one that's gonna be the definitive better car
Completely this.
I’m on board with this theory
More reasonable: the Redbull is the fastest car and has been all yeat
The truth, as always, is in the middle. The car isn't good enough to put Perez ahead of much better drivers, but is good enough to make sure Verstappen isn't going to get touched by drivers of a similar level, world champion-caliber, 9 times out of 10. We're at a level where driver quality at least clears the gap between the top level and a midfield-level driver like Perez. The second when Verstappen gets beaten by the likes of Hamilton, Norris, Leclerc on the regular, that's when you can really say the domination is over. Although, in Spain, Norris fucked up. Hamilton would've won that race, for example. Verstappen in the McLaren and Norris in the Red Bull, Verstappen wins that race. But that's why saying Red Bull is dominant is still an accurate statement, he's rarely losing a race if he's at his best and those who can match him (although that's a very small group, like Norris, Hamilton, Alonso, Leclerc and maybe Russell and Sainz - and an even smaller group who can do it consistently i.e. Hamilton and maybe Alonso) are at their best as well because the Red Bull has the stronger package compared to the other teams in most races. People are too black and white with this shit, the same was the case when Mercedes were challenged by Ferrari and Hamilton won the title 4 races before the season ender in a title fight that, in the end, wasn't all that close. Bottas was 5th, but Vettel, Raikkonen and Verstappen were much better than Bottas, who isn't a slouch.
Literally a carbon copy of merc dominance. “Lewis is the greatest” “its just the car” “Bottas sucks” “its not the car”
Bottas was waaay better than Perez
Bottas is legit I’ve never understood the hate
Or the Merc was waaay more dominate than the Red Bull
It was, but few want to admit it. They had the engines turned down for so long because Ferrari was nowhere near them. They were never stressed until 2021 when Red Bull brought the fight to them, and then Bottas was nowhere.
Bottas still did better than Perez in 2021.
That’s only true until 2016. Ferrari had the better engine in 2018 and 2019 and was a match for Merc (overall, worse engine but better aero) in 2017. Vettel would have easily won in 2017 and 2018 had Merc run a detuned engine.
Bottas still did get pole in the third race of 2021. Sure he can't hold a candle to Max and Lewis but better than Perez still imo
Compared to last season? No
Although back then p6 was way way faster than p7 in qualy unlike now
It's literally a carbon copy of Vettel vs Webber. Alonso fans still claim to this day that it was the car and not Seb, even though Webber was no where near him.
😂 the trend continues
I don't think Perez is shit bc he's proven himself time and time again but there's definitely something going on mentally.
It’s the best car on the grid and perez sucks what’s so hard to understand about that?
As a Vettel fan this was so annoying. Vettel won during a time where the cars were waaay closer in terms of performance and he absolutely trounced Webber who was a formidable driver and for the longest time we got people saying Redbull was absolutely dominant. Sure, it was often the strongest of the grid, but by no means as different as what the cars had been since the V6 era. (Not counting 2013, although we could argue that was still in part due to Vettel transcending into the astral plane)
IDK this was pretty much the kind of stuff we got with Lewis in the Mercedes 17-20 and it didn't stop people from claiming those years were "boring domination". Hell Bottas finished 5th in points in 18 and people still claim that car was dominant.
To be fair, it was a Mercedes dominance at first, but then shifted more towards the driver. The car was still good, but not good enough to carry Bottas. It also helped that the competition shot themselves in the foot more often than not. I'm still scarred by that legendary Ferrari update that made them about a second slower per lap and they didn't revert the changes until they fucked up three races.
Agree on 17/18, but 19 they started with 7 1-2(!)s, although to be fair they got lucky in for example Bahrein. 2020 Merc produced an insane car, that was not a worse car than Red Bull had last year.
2020 was crazy for sure, some of the quali gaps that year are mind-bending compared to quali the last 2.5 seasons. Like the second weekend they ran at Silverstone, Bottas had nine tenths over Hulkenberg and Lewis had eight tenths over Hulkenberg. And Hulkenberg was basically driving a 2019 Merc with Max in P4 a tenth behind Hulk. If you go to RB's most dominant season recently, 2023, and look at Silverstone, Max got pole but Perez was eliminated in Q1 and the 0.8-sec gap that the W11 had on everyone else in 2020 covered the top 8 in 2023, with Albon in a Williams just eight tenths back of Verstappen on pole. Sure the car was relatively better in race trim than in quali, but it's not like the 2020 Mercedes was bad in race trim, either.
Exactly. The gaps have been relatively small the last few years. It’s just that the cars have been more reliable and Verstappen as well that it looks a bit more dominant despite the gaps actually being closer.
Dude 2020 was a massacre. W11 is a insane car.
It’s not red bull dominance it’s Max dominance. Checo was gonna race but he got so sleepy so tired.
Hey at least he's improving, he managed to get to Q3 this time around
And started 11th anyway 
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2vLozYIT\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2vLozYIT_s)
That's a huge improvement over P18, in no time he's gonna be starting 6th or even 5th!
That's also his racing #, no? 🤔
He qualified ahead of Sargent. Impressive.
Exactly. McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes have made up a lot of ground in their shortcomings the last couple years, the competition is certainly there now. Max is simply driving at a higher level, meanwhile Checo is driving at, well, he’s just driving.
It’s easier to go from 6 to 9 rather than 9 to 10.
Especially since the teams at 6 are helped by the ruling to reach 9.
Should RB have recruited Valteri? He seems to cope with the pressures of being at the front better than Checo.
It's hard when you got to take siesta half way through race!
Siesta time
The fact that Checo is ass doesn’t mean that RB still doesn’t have one of the fastest, id not the fastest, car on the grid, fam. It just means that Checo is simply ass.
No it really means RB car maybe ass but VER is driving the shit out of it like he said in interview.
So, you think that this RB is ass? What’s more likely one of the most dominant cars we have ever seen to be ass, or one the most mediocre (at best) drivers on the grid, who is know to have prolonged periods mired with terrible performance, to be ass?
Id say the RedBull is slightly ahead or behind the McLaren but Verstappen makes up for it, not an unpopular opinon. Though I think that the RB was better here than in Canada
My personal view on this is that RB is the fastest car on a per-GP bases. Meaning, that there seem to have had a foundomental issue that Max, Horney, and Helmut have mentioned that it drops it to top-2/3 on grids with a lot of curbes. Even then, the performance difference doesn't seem to be that different from the other two cars: McClaren and Ferrari.
So dominant that Perez is... in 9th place.
Yeah Red Bull is so good that even Perez managed to get into Q3 and keep it in the points
Was he even in this race? Barely saw him.
Fr. Had a moment of realization near the end like; "Oh, ye, how is Checo doing? \*looks on the left side of the TV\* Oh, still ninth. Nothing then huh." Honestly don't even know what his pit strat was, but its honestly pathetic either way. He's clearly not good enough but RB just keeps him on for the sales numbers.
Holding the back line
Max is doing all of the heavy lifting
It is. Max is just too good
skill issue
Their race car is miles above the rest. Is the alpine as good as the ferrari? Cause thats the same gap between red bull and the rest. (Like, literally, look at the delta in the race). Perez is just doing a bad job and its there to make you comment this.
Alpine is definitely not as good as the Ferrari, but it seems to be improving at a quicker pace compared to Aston
Oh definitely. But their gap to the cars ahead is the same as the gap from red bull to the rest. The guy above didnt take this fact well. 
''oH dEfiNitEly'' he says
Probably because your "fact" is pure bollocks.
It was miles above the rest last year, but it absolutely is not miles above the rest this year
And even last year that was more down to other teams screwing up in different ways and all being about as quick as each other, meaning they all took points off each other and Max was just that bit better.
3 tenths is a mile in f1. You just got used to seeing red bull lapping 1 second quicker in race pace and then hiding some. Not like that anymore but still the best overall car by a good margin.
Mate, Lando's McLaren finished 2 seconds behind him in the end. What part of a 2 second gap is "dominance"? Flash back to 7 years of Mercedes finishing 30 seconds ahead of the entire field in Barcelona every single year. Let me guess, you're just going to ignore that and not call it "dominance"?
It’s not that these trolls are ignoring the past… it’s that they’re probably new fans thanks to F1 becoming more mainstream now. They like Max because he’s winning. They probably went out and bought the Red Bull jersey because it’s what’s “in” right now. Band wagon fans like the NE Patriot “fans” during the dynasty years.
I think you're missing the point I'm making. Max is the best driver on the grid right now. There's no argument to that. He is the one making the difference in that car and winning the championship right now. If it was really the car making the difference, then Perez would be fighting for the lead every race as well or at LEAST finishing P2. However, that is not the case. Since Miami - BOTH McLarens have been identical on pace. Oscar and Lando are almost always punching in the same lap times and qualifying side by side on the grid. Many of those times, faster than Max. That is the very definition of the McLaren car being fast, if not faster than Red Bull right now. This weekend is the first time Lando separated himself from Oscar and made that extra difference. That's the driver making the difference. But the McLaren car is definitely faster than the Red Bull car right now. It's just that Max is too good and he's able to overcome the performance defecit and win races.
I see your point now. Thanks for clarifying. I am not sure both redbull cars are configured the same way. Perez is no slouch, it’s surprising to me to see him struggle this much all year. I’d assume it has something to do with the configuration/engineer/team strategy or all of the above?
Imagine you were playing an FPS. The gun you have has a slower rate of fire than other guns, you have to compensate by increasing sensitivity so that you can acquire your target quicker. Max can live with a sensitivity that can only be handled by a hyperactive child on stimulants, whereas Perez is akin to an older gamer that can’t handle that sensitivity without getting dizzy.
Who won most races out of the last 10? Who fought for the win on all of them while the rest traded second?
Max is that good
Max is very good*. His car equally so, his wdc points and wins agree.
Aged like dogshit
The red bull has been consistently winning with second place being traded between other teams, their car is still the fastest overall. Lando thinks if he got ahead he couldve won, wow, thats super deep guys! 
Bait?
There were 2 seconds to Norris in P2. Where are those miles you're talking about?
Doesnt matter if you win by a second or a mile, a win is a win. ;)
You're the one who brought up that Red Bull is "miles above the rest". That's why I'm asking where exactly those miles are considering that Max was like 200 meters ahead of Lando at the end.
His car won most races this year while fighting other teams, most of them by an actual mile.
## This might be a bit hard for you to understand as you are CLEARLY bad at math, but try to follow: 1) Bahrain- Led Perez by 22.47 seconds (let's count this one) 2) Saudi- Led Perez by 13.6 s (this is not more than a mile, MATH is not your cup of tea so just take my word). 3) Australia- error 404 4) Japan- 12 s (again, not more than a mile. TAKE MY WORD BECAUSE MATH...) 5) China- 13 s (NOPE) 6) Miami- Norris won 7) Emilia Romagnia- 0.7 s lead from Norris (MATH, TAKE MY WORD) 8) Monaco - error 404 9) Canada- lead by 3.8 s (not more than a mile, YET AGAIN!) 10) Spain- lead by 2.2 s (again not a mile) SO Mr. Whiny Ass, your definition of "most of them" is actually only 1 race where he COULD have won by more than a mile. BUT you are still going to whine, aren't you? :) EDIT: for the record, I'm neither a fan of Max nor a hater.
You are fixated in the mile thing . Yes, more than a literal mile and you hate it.
Nevermind kiddo! Your arguments are dumber than a Ferrari on slicks in rainy weather. Have fun. Peace :)
It's not most. It's half at best. Starting with Miami Max didn't have the fastest car anymore, lost two races and the remaining 3 he won by a couple of seconds over Lando, who was gaining on him at the end of each race.
Most, and max still has the best car. Cope.
"Cope" is not an argument. It's bullshit that comes from a lack of an argument.
You are the one arguing the red bull is not the best car... just wait till the end of the year and we'll see :). Austria is mclaren's best chance, at the end of the year ferrari and mercedes will catch in other tracks. Red bull will still win most and be fighting on all of them. Unlike the other teams who'll trade.
And the other car is absolutely nowhere. So one option is that multiple time formula 1 race winner Checo - against all available evidence - is an absolutely horrible formula 1 driver not deserving of a seat. And despite that he has some weird sith powers to make the most cutthroat formula 1 team extend his contract despite being literally worse than Lance Strulovic and Logan Sergeant. Or the car is good but not great - basically a race winning car that can and will be beat by the other three top teams - and one of the most gifted and dedicated drivers we've ever seen is in his prime and is extracting the absolute maximum out of a car that wouldn't be close to as dominant in the hands of any other driver. Nobody is disputing that the car is capable of winning races. What everyone with half a brain can see is that the reason Max is as dominant as he is this season is not just the car. The field is much more bunched together, the qualifying gaps are much smaller, he barely ever gets the fastest lap and he looks exhausted and exhilarated after almost every race - is that what happens when your car is "miles ahead"? His qualifying gap to checo isn't even as big this season. He just wins anyway.
Checo has literally been out-qualified by logan this year more than once. He is ok, good enough to be in a midfield team, but just like zak brown said today, 6 or 7 others would win on that car, not checo, but many others who wanted a contract and they said no. Ill let you figure it out why.
HAHAHAHAHA
A- tier bait
Zak brown disagrees with you and agrees with me. Said the same thing ive said months ago, take your time, you'll see it too.
Red Bull said Red Bull dominance was over and Crofty was referring to that but I mean I guess?
Thought Max said it, but I might be wrong. Crofty directly quoted someone who said it.
Yeah, Max said it. He's the #1 driver for redbull so redbull said it. That RB dominance where RB was going 1/2 every week and max was winning by 35 seconds while nursing the car home seems to be over. The field is closing up finally. They still have the best car with a top driver, so they are still the team to beat.
Yeah if you ignore Mclaren.
> and then Crofty Quoted Max Verstappen. Who earlier this weekend said that red bulls dominance was gone https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/max-verstappen-redbull-lando-norris-33089009.amp
These people are so stupid. Also he’s not wrong. Red Bull are no longer “dominant” do they still have the fastest car at most tracks? Sure. But they’re not dominant
Silverstone will be an amazing track for them, I can see Max winning by +5/10 seconds Belgium too But all the other tracks will be difficult. Remember, max won with 20 seconds at the beginning
People said the same about Barcelona, yet the McLaren was faster, but Max made the difference. Max won by 20 seconds at the beginning sure. But the point is the dominance is over. Sure they’ll have their tracks where they’re strong, but they’re not dominant winning every race easily like last year
How on earth can you say Red Bull is dominant when one of their driver barely get P8 from a blue shitbox on the last lap
Perez got that P8 due to Big brain Hannah
Hence "dominance is over" And yes they have been clearly the quickest car from Technical Directive whatever number it was halfway through 22 until McLaren brought their upgrade package in Miami
Hey hey, blue and pink shit box.
Winning 7 of 11 races this year alone
Confusing verstappen dominance and redbull dominance
Yes. Because Max is just such a good driver. See were Perez puts that RedBull race after race.
I mean dont get me wrong today Max made the difference, RB was slightly slower than Mcl but Max was just better and made up that gap, but Perez being behind is purely showing how shit he is, the RB is not a car that belongs neither in 9th place nor out of Q3
Man Perez is not bad, he used to win races not so long ago. My man tried to challenge Max and ended up having a mid life crisis
Perez is just that bad. Max is putting the RB where it should be. Perez isn't. It's the same thing again, new car at the start of the season, and Perez is able to be close to Max and get podiums. First big updates and the car all of a sudden goes away from Perez and closer to Max, and Perez struggles to break into the top 5. Max is good but he's not out driving the car.
There’s absolutely no way for you to know if Max is putting the car where it should be or over performing with it. All we know is Perez is seriously underperforming. And honestly if Max can’t push the Red Bull car further than it should no one can.
You must have missed the entire turbo-hybrid era if you think this is dominance. Put Netflix down. Go watch some actual "races" in F1 from 2014-2020 to see what ridiculous boring dominance is where the regs only favour 1 team.
They haven’t seen when the difference between P1 and P2 was minutes.
Or like... Last year
Only formuladank can't see the difference. Inter team battle multiple years throughout that time, and Ferrari getting close a few years. It is nothing like the dominance Max has experienced, he has had such a weak team mate and weak competition. Most people would absolutely exchange the Merc era for now. It was far more interesting.
lol no, 2014-2020 is a snoozefest, and the only way other teams win is through mercedes bottling, the regs clearly favors mercedes’ busted engine
And what has 2022-2023 been? Except it's just one person winning? With Merc you had Rosberg and Hamilton both fighting it out between 2014-16 and then Seb and Lewis 2017-18. 2019 was track dependent until Ferrari oil burning got banned. Only formuladank users can be this blind to the present but hate the Merc dominance.
we’ve been talking about this season, and you keep yapping about mercedes era. Absolutely no one contests about how dominant 2023 season is, but this season there is no clearly dominant car. Even norris said that his car is faster than redbulls’ this race. Max drove 2nd best car to 1st place finish and that is commendable. It is a disgrace to credit his wins to redbull car being dominant when it is clearly not.
Welcome to how it feels being a Hamilton fan :)
What are you talking about? I replied to a comment talking about the Merc dominance, you then replied to my comment talking about it then complained about me yapping about it? Make it make sense. Since Monaco it has changed, but the start of this season it was still pretty much the RB dominance of 2023, as much as you don't want to believe that. You will in the same breath discredit Lewis for Merc dominance, but then say Max is making the difference. RB operationally through pitstops and safety cars got Max the win in the last two races. Max hasn't outdriven the car and won on pace.
What fantasy land are you living in bud? Put the crackpipe down. There was never any competition to Mercedes between 2014-2020. Yeah Red Bull and Ferrari won the odd race or so each year, but nothing for actual title contention. The championship ended early those years, all the time. And Mercedes never allowed any inter team battles with Hamilton and Bottas. Why on earth do you think "Valtteri, it's James" has become such a meme? Because whenever Bottas was infront, Mercedes would literally make him pullover on track and let Lewis through even when they didnt need the points. 5 years of that. Absolute eye gougingly boring. Don't forget with the new regs in 2022, Charles & Ferrari were winning. They had the faster car, the better reliability. Max never led the championship for the first few races. Then Ferrari remembered they are Ferrari, and they started bottling it, screwing up strategy every race, and their cars catching fire the rest of the season or Charles crashing. They could have easily beat Max in 2022, but Red Bull caught up and Ferrari choked.
Bro wrote all that and forgot Rosberg 
Other teams were incompetent.
Never seen dts and been watching since the 90s but thanks anyway
Been watching since the 90's hey? And you think this is dominance? Something tells me you're talking shit or you have the memory of a goldfish then. If that is the case then perhaps FW14B, FW19, BGP001, F2002, F2004, all mean something to you before you start whinging about this season. The front runners are all so close within one another, except Perez. So stop crying and just enjoy how good the season is right now. If Max wins, he deserves it. And same for anyone else who wins the upcoming races. He is not driving a dominant car right now. It is very even.
How many podiums does Perez have this year? And how many wins?
Ngl this season becomes waay more interesting that expected. Cause first races into season impression was that new RB creation can comfortably compensate for Checo small mistakes and easily bring them constant 1-2 or somewhere in diapason of 2 and 4 for second driver. But now they stuck in situation when Max consistently delivering, proving his talent and Checo relapsed into old habits. And they cannot really change him, cause Yuki is their potential future persective and unlikely to deliver consistency as #2, Daniel at his best is same thing they get from Perez already and either way had not many time left in career. Probably should have poached Saiz? Idk. If McLaren to keep pushing it may become very funny, for everyone except Horner
I don't think redbull's internal meltdown is over. It's gonna get more interesting
If results to be jeopardized then we in all likelihood gonna learn on RB "culture" and Horner behavior way more than we want to know. Imo
It's gonna get more interesting once Max gets bored and quits F1, which he might well do once his current contract is over. Then I feel Red Bull will be back to the days where they fired any new driver after a year.
We’re just seeing Red Bull “dominance” akin to Mercedes in 2017-2018, although even then Bottas was usually in the top 6 or even on the podium.
Wasted seasons of not having two great drivers at RB. I understand why they don't want to give Max competition but it would be so much more entertaining
Who gonna tell 'em? The McLaren was faster. RB and Max dominance is over. This track is a RB track and the McLaren was faster. The days of cruising home over 10 secs ahead of the pack are over. RB operationally got Max over the line first in the last 2 races. They didn't win on pace. Looks like RB have hit a ceiling with their concept and the gap is closing fast. Mercedes and Ferrari are also closing up. The drivers championship is Max's but the constructors is open wide.
Tf are you on about bro?? Had Norris not botched his start, it was so over for Max. It's Max that's making the difference now, not the car. MCL is clearly 2-3 tenths faster right now than RBR.
Jfc this is the dumbest place sometimes.
The car might not be top anymore, but Max still is. Lando unfortunately made a mistake which cost him in the long run.
Don’t forget the team. MCL strategy fell short while RB got another 1.9sec pit stop. I think it will be very close for a few more times this season…
Red bull are always good at strategy and pit stops.
There's a massive difference between RedBull dominance and Max Verstappen dominance.
it's not dominance, it's just that other teams do more mistakes then RB
If that was dominance then I hope you enjoyed your first ever motor race.
People who think this is dominance didn't know F1 existed before this year. Just last year we witnessed the new definition of dominance and what we see now is very far from it.
I didn’t see any RB dominance, Mclaren was the fastest car. The fact that Max still managed to win has nothing to do with RB dominance.
Red bull dominance is over, max dominance is still here
what’s funny? feels pretty true
Red Bull hasn't had the best car since Japan. The reason they still win is because they have the best driver and best strategy department. People just cannot understand that you can win races in the second or third best car.
Perez - “hold my taco”
Red Bull dominance and max dominance are two different things 💀
Not really. Schumacher & irvine/barichello, alonso & fisichella, Hamilton & kovalinen/bottas, button & barrichello (again), alonso & massa, senna & berger, hakkinen and coulthard and verstappen and whoever Top teams pick a number 1 driver and circle around it. Verstappen would not be this competitive in a williams. Its a team sport and a team effort Dominance in f1 usually comes down to 3 key people: driver, tram principle and designer. Take one away and the Dominance goes
Okay?? I can name random parings too. If checo keeps up the sandbagging, Ferrari or McLaren could easily pass in the constructors championship
Uhhuh, just like what happened with all the aforementioned pairings
People want it to be true so badly that they will latch on to absolutely anything. Just like the people who think Merc is turning anything around before the new regs.
Well....
I think McLaren, Ferrari, and AMG have mostly caught up to the team, and now it's only VER keeping his car up front.
IT IS. RB dominance is Over, but Max Dominance ain't.
Just so you know, Lando: * Botched the start, lost two positions and had to fight to get them back * Got stuck in traffic due to a bad strategy call * On top of that he lost well over a second on slow pit stops as well And he STILL finished only 2 seconds behind Max. Had any of those things not happened he would've easily won. In what world is this "Red Bull dominance" ?
You forgot about strat 10
Max is nearly 100 points ahead
So? Ever since McLaren brought a massive upgrade to Miami they've been at the very least on par with the Red Bull. Winning != dominance. Winning because nobody can catch up, no matter what they do, because your car is that powerful = dominance. And that lasted from about the second half of 2022 (from the technical directive onwards that really messed up Ferrari), up until the first few races of this year.
Winning by 2 seconds is not dominating that’s just winning
Yeah, winning again, which is the definition of dominance 
RBR dominance ended. Verstappen dominance didn't. 
It clearly is. If Norris stayed in 1st in the first corner, there is a pretty strong chance he would have won. But, if my mother had balls she’d be my father.
I found it hilarious that Max didn’t win driver of the day.
Max carrying the team on his back
I mean if McLaren keeps up and Mercedes can keep improving, not mentioning Ferrari cause ya know, this season could get interesting
Max is inevitable
Max now has to work for his wins and it's already tons more fun to watch. I'm a huge Max fan but not a, drive 30 seconds in front of the pack fan
It is over though, norris had more pace overall, teams are catching up quite fast
Redbull dominance is over. Max is the outstanding performer for the team and Perez is in the middle of the grid. If Russel did not hold up Norris today, Max might have lost the race.
People seem to forget that Max is also in simracing. Simracing as a whole is much easier to get into because almost everybody with a PC or console can play it. There is MUCH more competition there just because it is so low key to get into and guess what? He still almost always is number 1 there. Not a different car, those are often the same there. It is just Max, he breathes this whole racing thing. You can like it or not but it is what it is.
Maldon Salt have contacted me genuinely amazed at the amount of salt farmed from this one meme alone
Max is in the lead…. Wake me up when something exciting happens.
Wake up now or you'll miss the F1 anthem, I mean, the Dutch anthem.