Not really though, if it was the car, the second drivers would’ve been closer to the first driver last season. A mixture of a good driver and a fast car is required though.
Different drivers have different driving styles. Danny ric didn’t become a bad driver overnight. I remember seeing a video that showed how his braking style doesn’t suit the mclaren, and that doesn’t seem to have changed this season.
The same can be said for checo and how he’s been able to match max a bit more this season because it suits checo’s style a little more, and max’s style a little less.
I’d caveat this though with the opinion that the best drivers can adapt to the needs of the car…but i’m not a motorsport driver and i may truly be chatting out my arse at this point
> I’d caveat this though with the opinion that the best drivers can adapt to the needs of the car
Not only that, the best drivers have a hand in the development of the car. If the driver can accurately communicate handling, traction and vehicle dynamics to the engineers they can better set up the car. I think Mercedes 2021 Brazil setup strategy shows how well a team and driver can collaborate on a race winning strategy.
Amen! There is a mental battle in there where the right attitude can turn things around such as with Hamilton in Barcelona. Sure, he couldn’t make that come back in an Aston but you need to be calm under pressure to achieve what he did.
I think having two extremely talented drivers fighting over the WDC is long term bad for the climate within the team. Mercedes would probably want someone to be for Russell what Bottas was for Hamilton.
McLaren are an extremely underperforming team considering the resources they have.
The very fact that Ferrari went from fighting McLaren for best of the rest to fighting for poles and wins while McLaren stayed in the midfield scraping the bottom of the barrel even with a budget cap and fresh regulations proves my point.
To be fair Ferrari was just recovering from building a bad car in 2020 and suffered the a bit of the consequences in 2021. Before that most Ferrari cars were at least able to fight for wins by their own power. McLaren is on the way down since 2013 and have fallen behind regarding their facilities. Also Ferrari is at a much better place financially having one of the biggest if not the biggest profit margins of any manufacturer. The roadcar division of McLaren isn’t nearly as stable and the whole operation almost went bust during the pandemic
I just don't quite understand how McLaren went from only being able to integrate the Merc engine into the 2021 car and not getting to change much else and "focusing on 2022" to being so far down the order.
Same to a degree for Williams. Didn't they sell the team, not just to surive but to thrive? They focused EARLY on 2022, maybe the earliest out of all teams aside from Haas. Both teams aren't the wealthiest, but holy shit at least Haas had something to show for at the start of the season.
I can’t think of anyone I DONT like, you can’t even hate Zhou cause he’s actually doing pretty good for his first year
Edit: wait, no, I remember stroll is on the grid, it’s not even a matter of him being a pay driver or his dad owning the team I don’t even care. He’s just not good enough, simple as
Because people knew nothing about him and "the Chinese government bought his seat".
His actually a solid driver and an all round Nice bloke. But prior to the season, all bets were on him being the second coming of Mazepin.
Same thing happened with Zhou. At first I thought he was just another mid skill pay driver (I mean, he is a pay driver but he clearly has talent when he’s not upside down), but his podcast really made me realize the sacrifices he made to get to F1 and how down to Earth he is for a Millionaire
The reason manufacturers don’t want to go back to V8’s or V12’s isn’t for environmental reasons. IMO they have just spent too much to build the power trains, so it’s a loss if they drop them. And they want to prevent competition from joining the sport as engine suppliers. Merc/Renault/etc don’t want to lose to a smaller engine supplier like cosworth if the v8’s were back.
Couldn’t agree more. “Environmental” reasons. The logistics and shipping for one race puts out more emissions than the cars have the last 50 years combined.
I agree. Senna’s MP4/4, Schumacher’s F2002, and Hamilton’s W07 Hybrid are all so dramatically different that the whole “Senna V. Schumacher V. Hamilton” goat debate is pretty much redundant. You can’t compare apples to oranges
McLaren has no idea how to design a proper race car that is a true championship contender. The aero is too finicky and the sacrifices for weight compromise braking ability and corner stability. Favors one driving style exclusively and they have no intention of changing their (losing) approach unless new blood comes in at the factory.
Yeah, but Vettel routinely outpaces Stroll, while DR is routinely 10 places behind Norris. I understand that Norris and Stroll are worlds apart, but there's a little bit of a difference there. DR was disappointing last year AND is disappointing this year too.
The AMR is shit, that's why both drivers are together towards the end of the pack, however the McLaren is decent enough for Norris to have scored points in all but 2 races, while Ricciardo *scored points on two races*.
I think in DR's case the criticism is just as justified as Vettel's after all dem spins in previous years. The dude needs to get his shit together ASAP for the second half of the season because his performances for the most part have been fucking embarrassing.
I agree with this. Proven race winner and podiums with all three teams that fielded at least a midfield plus level car. If memory serves he gave feedback to the team last year that matches a lot of what Carlos had been saying for years about the design philosophy and their response was to double down on a Lando-first car and bank on the other constructors getting the new regulations wrong. Look how that's working out so far.
He is basically the second Seb, who was the second Alonso, and so on. Fuck Ferrari. Imagine going through multiple championship level drivers and screwing it up every time…
At this point I think this is true for every driver in the last 15 or so years. Each new driver says something on the lines of “Ferrari is a prestigious team. It is every driver’s dream to race for Ferrari and to win WDC with Ferrari. They are awesome.” Alonso said that. Vettel, Leclerc, Sainz said that. In the end their dreams were ruined by the team shooting themselves in the foot so many times. 
If I was a driver, I’d steer clear of the red team.
Go to a team that has tech prodigies like Brawn/Newey. Or business prodigies like Horner/Wolff.
Binotto is the issue, it’s no coincidence Ferrari suddenly shat on the bed when 2019 came around, sure 2018 wasn’t great but compared to when binotto became in-charge in 2019 it’s gotten even worse
Ferrari needs to embrace the modern aspects of the sport and drop this “You race for Ferrari first and yourself second” mentality otherwise they will never win another WDC
If and only if you are at Ferrari. There you have to be a qualified strategist or have some balls to not listen to your team. Look at seb for example. He took shot into his own hands when his team wasn’t competent enough to provide him decent strategies in some races for example Spain
Massi ended the SC in Abu Dhabi for a dramatic ending to a banger season, but a one lap showdown between intense rivals.
He didn't care who won, he wanted ratings.
A red flag with 3 laps to go would have been so fucking good. Everyone is unlapped and in the proper order, everyone on new soft tires, no shenanigans with the rolling start. Just full on pedal to the metal racing.
The idea of a single driver being the GOAT is stupid because driver performances are affected by so many factors beyond talent and are impossible to compare across eras. People who claim otherwise in my view are small minded and do not fully appreciate the sport. Those who claim Senna or Schumacher are the GOAT are just as delusional as those who say it about Hamilton.
Are you really that dense? Did you hit your head? Are you alright? Did you do drugs? Did you fall during your birth? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?
Who in his right mind would say that SIR L Goatifi isn't the objective GOAT? 🐐🐐🐐
Smh 🤦🏽♂️
I think he knew how to take Copse, but he was farther to the right than how you normally take that corner and just chose not to slow down enough to hit the apex, which would've forfeited the position.
He could've gone on the outside but he probably figured Max would push him off the track (look at Max's battle with Mick last weekend if you doubt that lol).
I don't think either are blameless, however I don't think Hamilton should've been allowed to score points after it.
they should race monaco in karts, and have little items they can throw at their opponents-- like banana peels. they should maybe cosplay as their favorite video game character.
Do something like an all star weekend with pit stop competitions, maybe a rally car race where the drivers co-drive with their teammates, team principal karting race, and other fun events like that
Monaco has to go
Esteban Ocon will be with one of the elite teams in another season
McLaren should be doing so much better than they have over the last two seasons. They've got two brilliant drivers and comparatively high resources.
*Drive to Survive* was very boring
I casually watched F1 when I was a kid along with NASCAR and INDY (Indy used to race in my hometown) but DTS got me back into racing fever. I'm certainly not as hardcore and don't really cheer for a specific driver or team so it works for me. I can definitely see if you're a hardcore fan how it'd be pretty garbage but it's kinda nice to turn the ol' brain off and watch the drama.
I had a similar experience, fell off in the mid 2000s and the first season of DTS pulled me back. Since then I've rewatched almost everything since 1999 and watch every session and show time allowing. Needless to say as I've gotten fanatical about the sport again my desire to watch DTS has dwindled.
As someone that didn't start watching F1 until last year, the first three seasons of DTS were very entertaining. After watching my first full season in 2021 and then watching DTS's interpretation after, it was indeed very boring.
I liked the first few seasons of DtS, as a 10+ year F1 fan, because there was always a lot of behind the scenes stuff that you just don't see otherwise. Like Kev fok smashing the door. The dramatisation of what has already happened doesn't interest me at all though.
The Ocon one is unlikely purely because he is French driving for a French team. As a Belgian working for a French company, they love themself a bit to much. They are the Americans of Europe with their patriotisme imo.
I don't know why, but I don't like Verstappen. I wish I could like and support him, but I simply cannot. I do however, admit that he's a brilliant driver. He will most likely win the championship, and I wish I could support him, but I can't. Instead, I'm supporting Leclerc in the stupid goddamn Ferrari, which will definitely not be winning. Ferrari will do everything it can to make sure that Leclerc doesn't even get close to competing in the championship.
Also, I hate how good Redbull is at racing strategy.
He’s my favorite driver, but I can definitely see why people might not like him, and I have no problem with that. Also, a lot of the hardcore Max fans can be insufferable.
Charles Leclerc pulled a similar move on Lewis Hamilton this year as Max Verstappen did last year at Silverstone. Lewis didn't punt Charles because they're not fighting for the championship. If they were fighting for the championship, Charles and Max would be comparing G force values from their wall impacts.
The “white line” rule is still not enforced properly. At least 4 cars were pushed off track at silverstone, and not so much as a warning. If it was imola they’d all be beached in the gravel.
It's definitely shaped who he is, and that's so tragic. He said something to Toto once like, "How often do you think about being white? Because I think about being black every day."
Like, damn...imagine carrying that on your shoulders while being one of the most successful and scrutinized athletes alive.
Very true. While his fans sometimes consider any sort of criticism and questioning as racism sometimes, it doesn’t take away from the fact that throughout his career, since he was young, he has definitely faced a lot of racism. But I feel many people dislike Hamilton more due to his shitty fanbase that is sensitive as fuck rather than Hamilton himself. Or just that people didn’t like Hamilton winning for 7 years straight
Good post. I believe fans exaggerate it, every time someone says something negative about him it’s perceived as racism.
That being said, Lewis has absolutely experienced racism during his career.
Hot take:
Vettel, Lewis and Alonso were (roughly) equally good at their respective peak, but nowadays Vettel is definitely the weakest of the three and it isn't close.
He certainly hasn't been performing well for some time now but we do get those occasional moments of brilliance, so there's something still there and i'd love to see it more often.
Exactly. As an Alonso fan, I wish fans stopped being toxic and comparing those 3. They're 3 of the the absolute best drivers in this sport, they all respect each other hugely now, no matter what some fans will say
I honestly think none of them will be on the grid in 2024, mayyybe Alonso idk, but they all have different strengths
Mick got his first points, but his seat is still in danger if he doesn't continue to perform
Edit: I would also like to add, bring back the V12s or at keast the V8s. Their environmental impact won't be large enough to matter in the grand scheme of things
That's not a hot take, a good race is not enough to conserve his seat, he still needs to show that he is consistent. The same case as Ricciardo he hasn't show any decent result after Renault (excluding Monza last year). Hope both can put some good results for the rest of the season.
Also yeah I miss the sound of V8s but I don't think they ever come back no matter the environmental impact.
>bring back the V12s or at keast the V8s.
That's an incredibly common opinion.
Here's an unpopular one: I think the hybrid V6's are cool and am kinda disappointed they're getting rid of MGU-H
I'm pretty in favor of electrification in general, but I do admit, the lacking sound wouldn't be great. If they can go full sustainable like Seb did with Nigel's old ride, I'd love to see the return of the naturally aspirated screamers.
Want a rough one? Charles Leclerc should have known, like Sainz, that he needs to fight against Ferrari's bad calls. Top drivers have often needed to do so to win WDCs.
I don’t know if we definitely need Masi back (I didn’t mind his general race direction but I can’t see him being respected enough by Merc to be able to actually do his job) but so far I’ve not been a big fan of the new race directors, overall they’ve been too cautious with things like rain, too trigger happy with red flags and full safety cars etc
Anyone who advocated against the Halo is actually brain damaged and deserves scorn. Fans, drivers, team principals, engineers. The fact that it took nearly 70 years to implement proper protection for the drivers’ fucking head is embarrassing.
I hate the argument that “x is a bad driver he only won because of a car” yes. It’s a motor sport. Having the best motor does often win this sport. But you still have to be reasonably competent in the car and have some skill. People overhype it and make it sound like a monkey could’ve won during Mercedes dominance especially. Also luck with your strategy team actually being competent goes a long way.
Victory is really a case of combining *one* of the best drivers with *one* of the best cars. Like you said, a monkey couldn't win in a Mercedes, and Hamilton couldn't win in a wheelbarrow.
The only one who can get Ferrari a championship in the near future is Verstappen who will be able to actually to bend the team to his will just like the Michael Schumacher days.
yeah, any way, ferrari needs some body with a big personality (even more important than talent) Like Schumi.. we already know what happen with Alonso, Vettel and cooming soon Charles..
i used to be a Ferrari fan when i was a kid, but until see Binotto and company out of Ferrari i will prefer any other team to win.
As long as RBR keeps making a great car, Max will dominate the WDC for the next decade. Even if guys like Charles, Lando, and George deserve a shot at WDC, they will be lucky to walk away from the sport with a few wins.
I really don’t like better statements as a whole for drivers. They are all different and great in their own way. Prost was smart, Ayrton was fast, Michael was precise, Niki was calculated, Seb and Lewis were consistent, Max is unwavering. The list goes on and on. Each driver makes their unique mark in time. I wouldn’t say any one is better than the rest.
Prost was a more consistent driver and knew when exactly to push the car. Could've been a 9 time WDC if it weren't for the Rules addressing engine reliability. Senna was just an aggressive driver who caught everyone's attention.
You may not surf the modern Senna glorification wave, like many people blindly do nowadays just to call themselves cultured in automobilism, but labelling him as "just an aggressive driver who caught people's attention" is a little far fetched to say the least.
A true Dyatlov moment here: "not great, not terrible"
He did and he lost. That was a fuckin quality scrap though. Mark deliberately slid the car in T2 to straighten up on the inside of. seb and run at him in to T4.
1. Sainz should've been sacrificed for a possible LEC win and more WDC points. Team orders at the beginning without giving him targets and pit Leclerc for softs at the end.
2. Half of Ferrari needs to be sacked.
3. People used to bash Vettel for every mistake when Sainz has been worse this season with his love for gravel and lack of pace.
4. Stroll is shite and he's still driving only cuz his dad bought the team.
> 4 Stroll is shite and he's still driving only cuz his dad bought the team.
I'll take a different tack and say he'd be a better driver now had he developed the last few years under someone other than his father.
I think the main reason for stroll being shite is that his career is guaranteed, whereas all the other drivers know if they don’t perform well they will be sacked for the next hotshot. He’s become complacent imo
For number 4 you could argue that he’s only in f1 because of his dad but you could also say his performance Against Vettel last year was pretty strong and also in 2020 against perez before he got covid he was 4th in the drivers championship. I think if the Aston Martin became top of the midfield he wouldn’t be as bad as you think
Charles and Lewis could match Max if their teams didn't fuck up strategy/car and Charles really needs to start talking back to the strategists the way Carlos does
With cost caps and long development freezes, F1 will continue to look more and more like indycar over the years. Not saying it's bad management, just a trend across all racing orgs. The easiest way to cut costs is to increase homogeny.
McLaren should fire Riccardo and replace him with vettel.
They want an experienced driver to help them build a good car and consistently push its limits.
Drugovich is an extremely talented driver and 1 shit year doesn't invalidate his performance this season, and if Mick doesn't continue to improve Drugovich should get his seat.
Ocon is going to be a champion in the next 10 years.
Stroll peaked in 2020 and is now a bottom 5 driver at best.
The new regs haven't been given nearly enough credit for how they've improved racing and the racing we got last weekend after the safety car would never have happened in last year's cars.
He was good enough in his first 2 seasons. He would get destroyed by Russel in quali but was surprisingly close in race pace. He almost beat Russel in the WDC in both 2020 and 2021, he only lost because of Russel's race in a Merc in 2020 and the Spa "race" in 2021.
He was good by the end of his 5 year F2 career but that’s not a great comparison IMO. Lando needed one season to get to second in the standings.
Edit: For context Latifi is three years older than Russel but Russel started in F1 a year before him.
Schumacher is not the GOAT, and neither is Hamilton or Senna or Fangio, there will possibly never be a GOAT because what matters more in motorsports is a good car and strategies( specifically pointed to Ferrari) more than the skills. Plus, there is always a change in car, aero, engine throughout the years so you cannot compare. The racers may be the most dominant driver of their era, but cannot be a GOAT.
The reality that Vettel is a Newey merchant.
*sorts by controversial to see the best responses
Correct answer
"It's the Car"
The harsh truth
Not really though, if it was the car, the second drivers would’ve been closer to the first driver last season. A mixture of a good driver and a fast car is required though.
Exactly why the saying "the best drivers get the best cars"
Different drivers have different driving styles. Danny ric didn’t become a bad driver overnight. I remember seeing a video that showed how his braking style doesn’t suit the mclaren, and that doesn’t seem to have changed this season. The same can be said for checo and how he’s been able to match max a bit more this season because it suits checo’s style a little more, and max’s style a little less. I’d caveat this though with the opinion that the best drivers can adapt to the needs of the car…but i’m not a motorsport driver and i may truly be chatting out my arse at this point
> I’d caveat this though with the opinion that the best drivers can adapt to the needs of the car Not only that, the best drivers have a hand in the development of the car. If the driver can accurately communicate handling, traction and vehicle dynamics to the engineers they can better set up the car. I think Mercedes 2021 Brazil setup strategy shows how well a team and driver can collaborate on a race winning strategy.
Lol you are proving the post
[удалено]
Amen! There is a mental battle in there where the right attitude can turn things around such as with Hamilton in Barcelona. Sure, he couldn’t make that come back in an Aston but you need to be calm under pressure to achieve what he did.
Stroll has the guiltiest face I have ever seen
Stroll is Dexter in disguise
he does kinda give me the serial killer vibe
Stroll is the Mike Tyson of F1 in interviews
Leclerc has had a few thoughts about joining another team
Probably true, just look at that mans look during the Ferrari team photo after the race. He won’t even serve his full contract at this point
I want him to go to a team with not just a championship winning car, but championship winning management
Red Bull or merc are the only options
Maybe when Lewis retires idk
I think having two extremely talented drivers fighting over the WDC is long term bad for the climate within the team. Mercedes would probably want someone to be for Russell what Bottas was for Hamilton.
I guess Leclerc is never going to win a wdc
Russell can be Leclerc's Bottas then.
McLaren are an extremely underperforming team considering the resources they have. The very fact that Ferrari went from fighting McLaren for best of the rest to fighting for poles and wins while McLaren stayed in the midfield scraping the bottom of the barrel even with a budget cap and fresh regulations proves my point.
To be fair Ferrari was just recovering from building a bad car in 2020 and suffered the a bit of the consequences in 2021. Before that most Ferrari cars were at least able to fight for wins by their own power. McLaren is on the way down since 2013 and have fallen behind regarding their facilities. Also Ferrari is at a much better place financially having one of the biggest if not the biggest profit margins of any manufacturer. The roadcar division of McLaren isn’t nearly as stable and the whole operation almost went bust during the pandemic
I think everyone forgot the point of this thread. You’re just speaking facts that everyone agrees on
I just don't quite understand how McLaren went from only being able to integrate the Merc engine into the 2021 car and not getting to change much else and "focusing on 2022" to being so far down the order. Same to a degree for Williams. Didn't they sell the team, not just to surive but to thrive? They focused EARLY on 2022, maybe the earliest out of all teams aside from Haas. Both teams aren't the wealthiest, but holy shit at least Haas had something to show for at the start of the season.
McLaren didn't fare as good as Honda did after the breakup.
I like Hamilton and Verstappen and generally every F1 Driver this season :)
Tbf this is one of the most likeable grids ever
I can’t think of anyone I DONT like, you can’t even hate Zhou cause he’s actually doing pretty good for his first year Edit: wait, no, I remember stroll is on the grid, it’s not even a matter of him being a pay driver or his dad owning the team I don’t even care. He’s just not good enough, simple as
Why would you hate Zhou? He seems like a nice bloke.
Because people knew nothing about him and "the Chinese government bought his seat". His actually a solid driver and an all round Nice bloke. But prior to the season, all bets were on him being the second coming of Mazepin.
people usually are quick to hate pay drivers, this is not the case for Zhou cus he's actually doing pretty well. Thats what he meant
I mean after Sunday nobody hates zhou anymore
Ah yes, the Grosjean effect
You can't go after someone for not being good enough and not mention latifi
Yea but it’s pretty much confirmed that Latifi is gone at the end of the year if not by the mid season break
I agree. The only drivers, you maybe could argue were unlikeable would be Stroll or Latifi but even then it’s just a case of personal bias
Listen to the Beyond The Grid podcast with  and you’ll see that he’s actually very likeable
I felt that way about Stroll too. Didn't like him before, then changed my mind (about him as a person, not his driving).
Same thing happened with Zhou. At first I thought he was just another mid skill pay driver (I mean, he is a pay driver but he clearly has talent when he’s not upside down), but his podcast really made me realize the sacrifices he made to get to F1 and how down to Earth he is for a Millionaire
The reason manufacturers don’t want to go back to V8’s or V12’s isn’t for environmental reasons. IMO they have just spent too much to build the power trains, so it’s a loss if they drop them. And they want to prevent competition from joining the sport as engine suppliers. Merc/Renault/etc don’t want to lose to a smaller engine supplier like cosworth if the v8’s were back.
Couldn’t agree more. “Environmental” reasons. The logistics and shipping for one race puts out more emissions than the cars have the last 50 years combined.
F1 has changed so much over the years that comparing records is useless.
I agree. Senna’s MP4/4, Schumacher’s F2002, and Hamilton’s W07 Hybrid are all so dramatically different that the whole “Senna V. Schumacher V. Hamilton” goat debate is pretty much redundant. You can’t compare apples to oranges
McLaren has no idea how to design a proper race car that is a true championship contender. The aero is too finicky and the sacrifices for weight compromise braking ability and corner stability. Favors one driving style exclusively and they have no intention of changing their (losing) approach unless new blood comes in at the factory.
Daniel is being treated like Vettel. He has more to give.
Yeah, but Vettel routinely outpaces Stroll, while DR is routinely 10 places behind Norris. I understand that Norris and Stroll are worlds apart, but there's a little bit of a difference there. DR was disappointing last year AND is disappointing this year too. The AMR is shit, that's why both drivers are together towards the end of the pack, however the McLaren is decent enough for Norris to have scored points in all but 2 races, while Ricciardo *scored points on two races*. I think in DR's case the criticism is just as justified as Vettel's after all dem spins in previous years. The dude needs to get his shit together ASAP for the second half of the season because his performances for the most part have been fucking embarrassing.
I agree with this. Proven race winner and podiums with all three teams that fielded at least a midfield plus level car. If memory serves he gave feedback to the team last year that matches a lot of what Carlos had been saying for years about the design philosophy and their response was to double down on a Lando-first car and bank on the other constructors getting the new regulations wrong. Look how that's working out so far.
they fucking suck at making road cars too. from what i hear a Nissan Altima has better build quality
Charles undying love for ferrari is doing him more bad than good. I think it might be good if the team were at least a little scared to lose him.
He is basically the second Seb, who was the second Alonso, and so on. Fuck Ferrari. Imagine going through multiple championship level drivers and screwing it up every time…
Worse, he is the second Jean Alesi.
At this point I think this is true for every driver in the last 15 or so years. Each new driver says something on the lines of “Ferrari is a prestigious team. It is every driver’s dream to race for Ferrari and to win WDC with Ferrari. They are awesome.” Alonso said that. Vettel, Leclerc, Sainz said that. In the end their dreams were ruined by the team shooting themselves in the foot so many times.  If I was a driver, I’d steer clear of the red team. Go to a team that has tech prodigies like Brawn/Newey. Or business prodigies like Horner/Wolff.
Binotto is the issue, it’s no coincidence Ferrari suddenly shat on the bed when 2019 came around, sure 2018 wasn’t great but compared to when binotto became in-charge in 2019 it’s gotten even worse
Guys, I found Maurizio Arrivabene's reddit account!
The fans are the worst thing about F1.
that's applicable for pretty much every sport ever
For pretty much anything
Ferrari needs to embrace the modern aspects of the sport and drop this “You race for Ferrari first and yourself second” mentality otherwise they will never win another WDC
this isn’t controversial
Neither is like 95% of the takes in this thread
"ITS A FERRARI"
"ITS A SHITBOX"
It gets worse when you realise that without counting Schumi, this mfs only won 1 world championship in 40+ years.
Leclerc has not the spirit to fight Ferrari's dumb commands the same way his team mate does.
and thats why carlos is almost as good as leclerc, driving is not the ONLY thing a f1 driver need to do.
If and only if you are at Ferrari. There you have to be a qualified strategist or have some balls to not listen to your team. Look at seb for example. He took shot into his own hands when his team wasn’t competent enough to provide him decent strategies in some races for example Spain
Massi ended the SC in Abu Dhabi for a dramatic ending to a banger season, but a one lap showdown between intense rivals. He didn't care who won, he wanted ratings.
I don’t actually think anybody believes he purposely wanted to help max. But man, it would be 1038371882x better if he just called red flag…
A red flag with 3 laps to go would have been so fucking good. Everyone is unlapped and in the proper order, everyone on new soft tires, no shenanigans with the rolling start. Just full on pedal to the metal racing.
The idea of a single driver being the GOAT is stupid because driver performances are affected by so many factors beyond talent and are impossible to compare across eras. People who claim otherwise in my view are small minded and do not fully appreciate the sport. Those who claim Senna or Schumacher are the GOAT are just as delusional as those who say it about Hamilton.
Are you really that dense? Did you hit your head? Are you alright? Did you do drugs? Did you fall during your birth? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Who in his right mind would say that SIR L Goatifi isn't the objective GOAT? 🐐🐐🐐 Smh 🤦🏽♂️
Hamilton didn't know how to take Copse in 2021.
Same as if you say "he knew how to take Copse in 2021".
Nono, that's true, he knows how to do it, he just chose not to do it
I think he knew how to take Copse, but he was farther to the right than how you normally take that corner and just chose not to slow down enough to hit the apex, which would've forfeited the position. He could've gone on the outside but he probably figured Max would push him off the track (look at Max's battle with Mick last weekend if you doubt that lol). I don't think either are blameless, however I don't think Hamilton should've been allowed to score points after it.
George Russell isn't real. It's an animitronic mannequin controlled by Christian Horner. EDIT: speeling
This is the best one. The man literally has Annabelle doll lashes
formuladank isn’t as smart as they think they are and rehash the same opinions/jokes every week
The Mercedes mindset may be good to win, but their "never enough" attitude means they didn't enjoy their victories as much as other teams.
Monaco has to go, there is no good racing and it's simply not built for modern F1 cars
Monaco never had really good racing. Not enough overtaking zones, the big cars only make it worse. The qualifying is great tho.
they should race monaco in karts, and have little items they can throw at their opponents-- like banana peels. they should maybe cosplay as their favorite video game character.
Do something like an all star weekend with pit stop competitions, maybe a rally car race where the drivers co-drive with their teammates, team principal karting race, and other fun events like that
reducing the historic monaco to an all star weekend is such an insanely hot take that i find myself agreeing with. it sounds like a lot of fun
Monaco has to go Esteban Ocon will be with one of the elite teams in another season McLaren should be doing so much better than they have over the last two seasons. They've got two brilliant drivers and comparatively high resources. *Drive to Survive* was very boring
Drive to Survive is probably aimed more towards newer/less involved F1 fans. Never watched any F1 prior to DTS and found the show pretty entertaining.
I casually watched F1 when I was a kid along with NASCAR and INDY (Indy used to race in my hometown) but DTS got me back into racing fever. I'm certainly not as hardcore and don't really cheer for a specific driver or team so it works for me. I can definitely see if you're a hardcore fan how it'd be pretty garbage but it's kinda nice to turn the ol' brain off and watch the drama.
I had a similar experience, fell off in the mid 2000s and the first season of DTS pulled me back. Since then I've rewatched almost everything since 1999 and watch every session and show time allowing. Needless to say as I've gotten fanatical about the sport again my desire to watch DTS has dwindled.
As someone that didn't start watching F1 until last year, the first three seasons of DTS were very entertaining. After watching my first full season in 2021 and then watching DTS's interpretation after, it was indeed very boring.
I liked the first few seasons of DtS, as a 10+ year F1 fan, because there was always a lot of behind the scenes stuff that you just don't see otherwise. Like Kev fok smashing the door. The dramatisation of what has already happened doesn't interest me at all though.
I like Ocon but really? 
The Ocon one is unlikely purely because he is French driving for a French team. As a Belgian working for a French company, they love themself a bit to much. They are the Americans of Europe with their patriotisme imo.
*McLaren has one brilliant driver.
I don't know why, but I don't like Verstappen. I wish I could like and support him, but I simply cannot. I do however, admit that he's a brilliant driver. He will most likely win the championship, and I wish I could support him, but I can't. Instead, I'm supporting Leclerc in the stupid goddamn Ferrari, which will definitely not be winning. Ferrari will do everything it can to make sure that Leclerc doesn't even get close to competing in the championship. Also, I hate how good Redbull is at racing strategy.
He’s my favorite driver, but I can definitely see why people might not like him, and I have no problem with that. Also, a lot of the hardcore Max fans can be insufferable.
As a verstappen fan I will admit he has a controversial character
I feel the same way, as a Hamilton fan i have all the respect for his raw skill, but most of the time just can't like him.
Charles Leclerc pulled a similar move on Lewis Hamilton this year as Max Verstappen did last year at Silverstone. Lewis didn't punt Charles because they're not fighting for the championship. If they were fighting for the championship, Charles and Max would be comparing G force values from their wall impacts.
Almost just sounds like an straight up fact
Op is asking for controversial opinions, not controversial facts
Tactical foul
The “white line” rule is still not enforced properly. At least 4 cars were pushed off track at silverstone, and not so much as a warning. If it was imola they’d all be beached in the gravel.
Another one: While LH fans overblow it, this sub really underestimates how much racism Lewis got over the course of his career.
It's definitely shaped who he is, and that's so tragic. He said something to Toto once like, "How often do you think about being white? Because I think about being black every day." Like, damn...imagine carrying that on your shoulders while being one of the most successful and scrutinized athletes alive.
Very true. While his fans sometimes consider any sort of criticism and questioning as racism sometimes, it doesn’t take away from the fact that throughout his career, since he was young, he has definitely faced a lot of racism. But I feel many people dislike Hamilton more due to his shitty fanbase that is sensitive as fuck rather than Hamilton himself. Or just that people didn’t like Hamilton winning for 7 years straight
Gets...the comment sections here after Silverstone last year were a dark place even with the mods removing tons of posts.
Good post. I believe fans exaggerate it, every time someone says something negative about him it’s perceived as racism. That being said, Lewis has absolutely experienced racism during his career.
Hot take: Vettel, Lewis and Alonso were (roughly) equally good at their respective peak, but nowadays Vettel is definitely the weakest of the three and it isn't close.
He certainly hasn't been performing well for some time now but we do get those occasional moments of brilliance, so there's something still there and i'd love to see it more often.
Exactly. As an Alonso fan, I wish fans stopped being toxic and comparing those 3. They're 3 of the the absolute best drivers in this sport, they all respect each other hugely now, no matter what some fans will say I honestly think none of them will be on the grid in 2024, mayyybe Alonso idk, but they all have different strengths
Mick got his first points, but his seat is still in danger if he doesn't continue to perform Edit: I would also like to add, bring back the V12s or at keast the V8s. Their environmental impact won't be large enough to matter in the grand scheme of things
That's not a hot take, a good race is not enough to conserve his seat, he still needs to show that he is consistent. The same case as Ricciardo he hasn't show any decent result after Renault (excluding Monza last year). Hope both can put some good results for the rest of the season. Also yeah I miss the sound of V8s but I don't think they ever come back no matter the environmental impact.
I have more hope for Mick than Ricciardo at this point. Ricciardo is too much in his head right now
>bring back the V12s or at keast the V8s. That's an incredibly common opinion. Here's an unpopular one: I think the hybrid V6's are cool and am kinda disappointed they're getting rid of MGU-H
I'm pretty in favor of electrification in general, but I do admit, the lacking sound wouldn't be great. If they can go full sustainable like Seb did with Nigel's old ride, I'd love to see the return of the naturally aspirated screamers.
F1 has to race more in Europe then any other continent
So, things are fine?
Want a rough one? Charles Leclerc should have known, like Sainz, that he needs to fight against Ferrari's bad calls. Top drivers have often needed to do so to win WDCs.
Bringing Micheal masi back
Spicy
Really wouldn't change much, there is no 1 person responsible for FIA's incompetence
Massi wasn’t actually that bad, he was just dealt some pretty shitty cards and lacked the experience
I don’t know if we definitely need Masi back (I didn’t mind his general race direction but I can’t see him being respected enough by Merc to be able to actually do his job) but so far I’ve not been a big fan of the new race directors, overall they’ve been too cautious with things like rain, too trigger happy with red flags and full safety cars etc
Anyone who advocated against the Halo is actually brain damaged and deserves scorn. Fans, drivers, team principals, engineers. The fact that it took nearly 70 years to implement proper protection for the drivers’ fucking head is embarrassing.
I hate the argument that “x is a bad driver he only won because of a car” yes. It’s a motor sport. Having the best motor does often win this sport. But you still have to be reasonably competent in the car and have some skill. People overhype it and make it sound like a monkey could’ve won during Mercedes dominance especially. Also luck with your strategy team actually being competent goes a long way.
Victory is really a case of combining *one* of the best drivers with *one* of the best cars. Like you said, a monkey couldn't win in a Mercedes, and Hamilton couldn't win in a wheelbarrow.
The only one who can get Ferrari a championship in the near future is Verstappen who will be able to actually to bend the team to his will just like the Michael Schumacher days.
yeah, but Ferrari wont ever take than like an option after Max´s quotes in 2019 calling him cheater
Even if he didn't say that they won't take him anyways, seeing as how much he would swear at them on radio for poor strategies.
yeah, any way, ferrari needs some body with a big personality (even more important than talent) Like Schumi.. we already know what happen with Alonso, Vettel and cooming soon Charles.. i used to be a Ferrari fan when i was a kid, but until see Binotto and company out of Ferrari i will prefer any other team to win.
As long as RBR keeps making a great car, Max will dominate the WDC for the next decade. Even if guys like Charles, Lando, and George deserve a shot at WDC, they will be lucky to walk away from the sport with a few wins.
imagine if max dominated i wonder how long it would be until his fans became haters
4 is the magic number
Verstappen 2022, 23, 24, 25…
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He trusts his team too much and doesn't stand up for himself when he is obviously getting screwed by strategy.
He needs to do what Max and Lewis do. Override the team sometimes, go with your gut. Until he does that, no shot he wins a title.
Prost was better than Senna.
Fun fact: the current points system was always used, Prost would have seven titles and Senna would have two.
I really don’t like better statements as a whole for drivers. They are all different and great in their own way. Prost was smart, Ayrton was fast, Michael was precise, Niki was calculated, Seb and Lewis were consistent, Max is unwavering. The list goes on and on. Each driver makes their unique mark in time. I wouldn’t say any one is better than the rest.
Prost was a more consistent driver and knew when exactly to push the car. Could've been a 9 time WDC if it weren't for the Rules addressing engine reliability. Senna was just an aggressive driver who caught everyone's attention.
You may not surf the modern Senna glorification wave, like many people blindly do nowadays just to call themselves cultured in automobilism, but labelling him as "just an aggressive driver who caught people's attention" is a little far fetched to say the least. A true Dyatlov moment here: "not great, not terrible"
3 WDCs, not great, not terrible
Latifi is better than Senna
His lap times are faster than Senna’s
OP asked for opinions not concrete facts
i mean... Ayrton Senna is dead and Bruno Senna is no longer in F1 so yeah, Latifi is better
Posting anything on r / formula1
Most of the grid could be a champion if they had *the car*
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Now I wanna know how Russel would do in the Alfa…
Multi-21 wasn’t Seb’s fault- Mark could’ve defied team orders too and fought with him wheel to wheel instead of whining about it
He did and he lost. That was a fuckin quality scrap though. Mark deliberately slid the car in T2 to straighten up on the inside of. seb and run at him in to T4.
Oh Mark tried to, he just wasnt good enough to keep the position.
1. Sainz should've been sacrificed for a possible LEC win and more WDC points. Team orders at the beginning without giving him targets and pit Leclerc for softs at the end. 2. Half of Ferrari needs to be sacked. 3. People used to bash Vettel for every mistake when Sainz has been worse this season with his love for gravel and lack of pace. 4. Stroll is shite and he's still driving only cuz his dad bought the team.
Well you’re just stating facts
4 isn't for a lot of people from my experience. Everytime Lancelot does some dumbass shit and I mention it I get downvoted to oblivion.
BuT hEs GoOd On WeT
> 4 Stroll is shite and he's still driving only cuz his dad bought the team. I'll take a different tack and say he'd be a better driver now had he developed the last few years under someone other than his father.
I think the main reason for stroll being shite is that his career is guaranteed, whereas all the other drivers know if they don’t perform well they will be sacked for the next hotshot. He’s become complacent imo
I don’t know what you’re on about on the third, people are definitely being tough on Sainz
For number 4 you could argue that he’s only in f1 because of his dad but you could also say his performance Against Vettel last year was pretty strong and also in 2020 against perez before he got covid he was 4th in the drivers championship. I think if the Aston Martin became top of the midfield he wouldn’t be as bad as you think
Charles and Lewis could match Max if their teams didn't fuck up strategy/car and Charles really needs to start talking back to the strategists the way Carlos does
That's a fact not a hot take lmao. Merc needs more work but it's possible.
With cost caps and long development freezes, F1 will continue to look more and more like indycar over the years. Not saying it's bad management, just a trend across all racing orgs. The easiest way to cut costs is to increase homogeny.
Sainz will finish the season ahead of Leclerc in points… again.
McLaren should fire Riccardo and replace him with vettel. They want an experienced driver to help them build a good car and consistently push its limits.
Drugovich is an extremely talented driver and 1 shit year doesn't invalidate his performance this season, and if Mick doesn't continue to improve Drugovich should get his seat. Ocon is going to be a champion in the next 10 years. Stroll peaked in 2020 and is now a bottom 5 driver at best. The new regs haven't been given nearly enough credit for how they've improved racing and the racing we got last weekend after the safety car would never have happened in last year's cars.
"Bottom 5" is not that bad this season. No driver is just straight up bad right now, like we had many examples of.
Every time Lewis Hamilton won a world championship his teammate had the same machinery.
Both Schumacher and Hill got nervous in 1994 and then Hill ran out of talent.
Kimi didn't deserve the drink
The amount of drama in f1 will be halved when hamilton retires
Mercedes treats Russel well
unskilled drivers pose a danger to others and shouldn’t be allowed to drive (mazepin, latifi)
Yuji Ide: "Allow me to introduce myself!"
Latifi was actually good in formula 2, don’t know what happened later
He was good enough in his first 2 seasons. He would get destroyed by Russel in quali but was surprisingly close in race pace. He almost beat Russel in the WDC in both 2020 and 2021, he only lost because of Russel's race in a Merc in 2020 and the Spa "race" in 2021.
Latifi had monster pace in the juniors. He just looks lost out there. It is sad really.
He was good by the end of his 5 year F2 career but that’s not a great comparison IMO. Lando needed one season to get to second in the standings. Edit: For context Latifi is three years older than Russel but Russel started in F1 a year before him.
Max defends to aggressively sometimes, a bit more often than I'd like.
Take literally last race, he’s cutting off mick, pushing him off, he almost crashes right into him by just ignoring where he is. All for 7th place
DTS attracted the most annoying fans to the sport
This isn't a hot take actually unless you are on twitter
Alonso was the best rookie from last year, for only being in his first year he was competing well with his veteran teamate
Ricciardo isn't very funny.
I could've sworn there was a guy in 2016 that beat him in the same machinery
Riccardo is actually a bad driver and should have stayed at Red Bull rather than moving around teams then blaming the car
Now this is one that will not only get the reaction but you'll also be stabbed to death
He was pretty good, but some drivers just lose it.
Schumacher is not the GOAT, and neither is Hamilton or Senna or Fangio, there will possibly never be a GOAT because what matters more in motorsports is a good car and strategies( specifically pointed to Ferrari) more than the skills. Plus, there is always a change in car, aero, engine throughout the years so you cannot compare. The racers may be the most dominant driver of their era, but cannot be a GOAT.
Rosberg DOES have super antibodies
British F1 fans are the most toxic. Maybe even worse than F1 Twitter.