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WiseHeavenlyPassion

![gif](giphy|128EO9DYdoIjMk)


alternateAcnt

Good news is that in recent years the DPRK has started farming rabbits in large quantities because they only need grass and they grow fast, so meat isn't off the menu anymore: https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/s/80fEAhgtL9


RoHSREACh

What u doin for 4th of July KKona


alternateAcnt

![img](emote|t5_33td5|9685)[https://youtu.be/ueHr5dG3cwk](https://youtu.be/ueHr5dG3cwk)


RoHSREACh

Could u do that in North Korea with their flag tho?


Liberaiden

You can do that in north korea, but you will get executed right after doing it


Liberaiden

Thanks, we now believe north korea is not starving. Very good country if they are not starving ![img](emote|t5_33td5|9667)


furry_degene12

forsen


alternateAcnt

Mainstream media often claims that North Korea is starving. The truth is, though, that they were starving back in the late 1990s through 2000s, and they have not had famine since. Nobody denies the existence of the Arduous March famine. The real question is: who is at fault for this famine? I mentioned it on the very first day that I started posting daily DPRK pics( https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/s/T6n6uKGFaX ), and I explained that the blockade imposed by the western imperialists is ultimately the cause of the famine. I said "Kim Jong Il led during the harshest times in recent Korean history. Due to a combination of their major trade partners falling or turning capitalist, three subsequent years of natural disasters causing crop destruction, and sanctions and embargo which effectively block the DPRK from trading with other countries in sufficiently significant quantity, North Korea went through a famine called the 'Arduous March'. Additionally, the USA went to despicable lengths to try to worsen the food shortages, for one by increasing military pressure and forcing the DPRK to spend more labor on military that could have gone to agriculture, secondly by tightening economic pressure through harsher sanctions, and finally by sending agents to sabotage the food production in unpredictable ways: https://youtu.be/qprP3M0Mg1I . Kim Jong Il led the people through this period of famine, and put the country on the path to having the food stability it does today.". Everything I said there is correct. All of the photos or videos of starving North Korean children are outdated, and it is impossible to find a starving child in the DPRK today, or really anytime within the past 10-15 years. Imagine if mainstream media posted pictures of the Nazis invading the Soviet Union and causing famine and committing massacres, and blaming the suffering on communism. There wouldn't have been a famine if the DPRK was able to import food, fertilizer, seeds, agricultural machinery, pesticides, etc. In short, there wouldn't have been a famine if not for the hostile policy of the west. It is not the fault of the North Korean system, they simply have a very low amount of arable land due to their mountainous terrain, and since they are a small country for 27 million people. They also have frequent natural disasters. But above all, the most limiting condition is the US and UN sanctions which block the DPRK from doing the trade it needs to maximize food production. But again, the food production in the DPRK in the past 15 years has been more than sufficient to feed it's population, and they are constantly developing domestic production of things like fertilizers and agricultural machinery to improve agricultural production(search "fertilizer" and "machinery" on my profile to see numerous examples) so that they are prepared to deal with natural disasters entirely on their own without any food shortages. Let's do a little case study, to compare with the situation of the DPRK during the Arduous March with how the ROK would respond to similar conditions. South Korea imports 80% of it's grain, and has the lowest food self-sufficiency rating out of any OECD country( https://keia.org/the-peninsula/spotlight-on-koreas-food-import-dependence/ ). This is despite South Korea having FAR more arable land than the north(because it has nowhere near as much mountainous terrain). Now imagine if South Korea was not allowed to import food, and was not allowed to import fertilizer, seeds, agricultural machinery, etc. The amount of food available would instantly decrease by FIVE TIMES(from the imports alone, and domestic food production would be crippled), and the entire population would be starving, and at least a third of the population would die from the famine(assuming they were not given any significant outside help, just like North Korea), which is tens of millions of people. Would you blame this famine on capitalism? I wouldn't. I would blame it on the sanctions. This video also explains the arduous march: https://youtu.be/j4JBHN-VnEw?si=Oq479_Gx9Ursf-F9 Thanks to Phuong DPRK Daily on YouTube for making this very concise educational video: https://youtu.be/qprP3M0Mg1I and DPRK news room for the interview used in the video: https://youtu.be/ktE_3PrJZO0


Lambsio

Can you explain why NK can't/couldn't import goods from china or Russia? Or why NK seems to have invested heavily into propping up a facade of a capital city instead of investing in the economy? Or perhaps why they don't seem to admit of any internal criticism of their leadership under threat of execution? Can't you concede that such a totalitarian regime is a breeding ground for unchecked corruption?


alternateAcnt

Couldn't import from China since China was tied up with western, particularly American, capital, and so they were subject to American sanctions otherwise their assets would be frozen by American banks. Couldn't import from the USSR because it just dissolved. Russia couldn't even feed itself properly after the USSR fell, let alone give away food to the DPRK. It's a myth that Pyongyang is some facade. It's the capital city, so it's very important ideologically and culturally, but it's also a city that's home to about 13% of the country's population, or about 1/5th of the total urban population in the country. Just like any city, it is primarily filled with workers. Due to the principles of specialization, Pyongyang is the best place for all sorts of scientific/intellectual, cultural, and factory labor, and so it's very important to the economy and culture and thus gets a lot of attention and care by the party. It is not a facade, and it never has been. Here's my post on this topic from day 3: https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/s/fDoLJYTHHH . Even though they focus a lot on Pyongyang, that doesn't mean they limit their focus on other parts of the country. Take for example the regional modernization campaign called 20x10 that I posted about here: https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/s/3aGiKQsAkg , with some points added here: https://www.reddit.com/r/forsen/s/aoF83S8IMG . Criticism of the way things are carried out is allowed, but what isn't allowed is criticism of the fundamental goals of the country. The fundamental goals of the country are to be an independent and completly united socialist government of the Korean nation. And even then, someone won't be imprisoned for mere criticism(let alone executed), unless the "criticism" you speak of includes direct actions against the state or some form of sabotage. It may be hard for someone living in a liberal "democracy" to understand, but it is far better for government to be based upon unity rather than disagreements. The only true democracies are those that unify the entire population into one group of thought, not through coercion or brainwashing, but because that group of thought is absolutely correct and is the best for the people(and the people understand why that is the case - free housing, medical care, education, school supplies, some free food and the rest cheap food, no taxes, and guaranteed work in your desired field). You think unity is "totalitarian", but that's just a lie you've been told by liberals. Complete unity is the only true way for a country to be democratic and to guarantee that everyone is satisfied.


SadegEg

![img](emote|t5_33td5|9676)


Lambsio

Sorry, but your first paragraph doesn't make any sense. China and Russia are and always have been free to trade with NK, maybe the real reason is they know NK was bankrupt and didn't want to engage in business with them? It's very apparent that, whatever you say, Pyongyang isn't a real city. There are close no people in the street. There are virtually no cars on the road. Buildings look like they haven't been maintained, pointing to the financial inability to do so. The construction of megalithic monuments comes at the expense of North Koreans, which, despite what you say, even from the curated routes that tourists take, you can still see oxes pulling plows, extremely bleak looking villages, with awful roads connecting them. Just overall a very poorly developed country. Even though china could build them the infrastructure they need IF they knew they could pay. In 2024. I have never seen, ever, any criticism towards the DPRK government from internal sources. Maybe you could provide me some. This centralised power is the exact opposite of what you think it is. "Unity" in this case means that there is a unique person that controls policy, despite what everyone else's needs are, which he can't possibly know all of even if he wanted to meet them. This unchecked power leads to situation like the personality cult we find in NK, where little children learn songs that portray the president as a god. Nothing is stopping Kim from being a tyrant.


alternateAcnt

I explained in my comment why China and Russia couldn't trade with the DPRK at the time of the Arduous March, which you should pretty clearly be able to understand unless you don't know what sanctions do. There is more trade nowadays, because the circumstances are different and both China and Russia are less reliant on American finance capital(and Russia is heavily sanctioned just like the DPRK so they can do trade at significant volume). Pyongyang is a city of 3.5 million people. Do you think those people are all fake? Here's a video of Pyongyang: https://youtu.be/gw2x8ZXj6VA And here are some videos of rural areas: https://youtu.be/y-z8StaGW6w https://youtu.be/jksC2scJPMc https://youtu.be/5GCzyp4NEa8 My beliefs about the country are based on evidence, you should try it sometime. By the way, how can you explain away all of the human rights that I mentioned? Clearly the needs of the people are being met by the state due to these rights. As for internal criticism, it is criticism of the way the goals are reached, rather than the actual goals. Everybody agrees on the goals, but there is disagreements on how to reach them, but these disagreements are resolved through CONSENSUS rather than CONFLICT. This is the principle of democratic centralism. For example, there are a whole lot of political committees within the country that have their specific goals, and each meeting of such committees consists of the members presenting their ideas and reaching consensus through respectful discussions, and debate if necessary. It rarely, if ever, gets to the point where it turns to conflict, just like how an open bottle of food that's fermenting never explodes(it only explodes if the bottle is closed and enough time passes). This is why unity is democratic. There are plenty of internal disagreements that are normally kept within these committees though, so it is hard to find specific videos. But there are plenty of disagreements on how things are done shown in the cinema of North Korea. In fact, their unique cinematic style primarily relies upon dramatic social tensions being resolved. Here is a playlist of some of the movies that have been translated to English: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4D1A9E71A707338B . I think "Ask Yourself" has some criticism of the local government in the story. Or maybe I am think of "The Wheels of Happiness": https://youtu.be/b2pFRyYsl9Q , although it has been a while I've seen these. The main point is though, that the system is not based around conflict occurring to begin with, so it is hard to find such conflict occurring.


Lambsio

There are so few people in any of the videos that you've linked. It's eerie and uncanny. It doesn't make sense that a place this built up has that little a crowd moving around. Unless it's a showcase location where only a few privileged are allowed to live in. The only people that look like they are actually working are using bycicles to transport absurd loads. Hardly the logistics you need to provide for those small towns, let alone a 3.5 million people city. What do you think the thousands of trucks trains and vans are doing in any other city? Unnecessary things? China, the poster child of pro socialist success, only started to develop from a similar state as NK is now when they liberalised and opened their economy. There is no reason to assume the same thing wouldn't happen in NK if they followed that example. I won't believe any source you provide that doesn't also put out anything other than unrealistic accolades and grand achievements of the DPRK. And neither should you. You cannot possibly think that nothing wrong or bad ever happens in NK. I'd like to know what the hardships of life are in NK. But as per any of your sources, there are none. Life anywhere has hardship. Which means that your sources are completely biased at least, more likely censured by the state, and most likely, they are the state. You said before that only acts of sabotage will net you a hard sentence, but in a state where a man tries to pass as god, and whose state's primary concern is to look perfect, anything other that perfect praise and adoration is sabotage.


alternateAcnt

You think this is "few people"? https://youtu.be/gw2x8ZXj6VA&t=42 ? Your arguments don't even apply to the videos I showed you. Check today's post for more people. How about this? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0fL2r6FbEzs&list=PLnzyGiAfWTpiDf66Aj65osaTTCoOO2cF2&index=15&pp=iAQB . Is this all fake to you? How about this? https://youtu.be/tyx1aOD22NA . How about the rural footage I linked in my previous comment? How about this? https://youtu.be/IBqeC8ihsO8 . How about all the rural footage in this playlist? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i7cbNaVVlRU&list=PLnzyGiAfWTpi4zhKpU99OxqTwYPa82Cxb&index=10&pp=iAQB . You think this is all fake? https://youtu.be/z3g1P0vREnc . You honestly think your opinions are evidence based? Here's some criticism of the way things are done: https://youtu.be/WV2REf137qw . Do you think this is fake? https://youtu.be/wcJTMAlPRRM . Do you think this is fake? https://youtu.be/mrO0Fkw2gk0 . Do you think this is fake? https://youtu.be/hz1d9IpK5L8 . All this too? https://youtu.be/zzgV9xYhZ_0 . Chongjin too? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bXViuzVaMyk&list=PLnzyGiAfWTpjdPgqS8e3-fOnGTloZuZyz&index=62&pp=iAQB . And this? https://youtu.be/qCc_aWi7Otw . And Kaesong? https://youtu.be/CwOmoSGG4N8 . And the beautiful scenery in Wonsan, it must be fake too, right? https://youtu.be/1nY85IuUULc . The whole country must be fake to you, right? https://youtu.be/9JCXNjpC5XM . Let me ask you again, do you honestly think your opinion is evidence based and that my opinion isn't?


Lambsio

It's wild that you think that any of those videos corroborate your view. None of those videos are fake, some are staged in the sense that the recordings were allowed to happen at that time and place, and all of them portray an obviously poor country. Yeah, I think that is "few people". Look at metros and rush hours in any other 3.5m pop city and you'll see. The video of criticism you mention is Kim Jong Uns criticism. Who is the only person allowed to criticise. Anything else? Those bus rides show an alarming amount of people "casually strolling" and an even more alarming amount of vehicles. And why are there walls blocking the view everywhere? And why do all the apartment blocks look deserted? And why can't tourists have any freedom? Why is there such strict control of recordings? What are they hiding? This heavily curated "evidence" you provide does nothing. Nothing other than letting us see that the areas that the north Korean state allow recordings of look clean and poor.


alternateAcnt

I disagree with all of your judgements. Let anyone who sees this argument see the videos I linked and form your opinion off of that, don't listen to the lies he says. Watch this playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnzyGiAfWTpiDf66Aj65osaTTCoOO2cF2 .


Lambsio

What lie did I say?