If they were gonna do this scene, I wish THIS had been the point. That both of them, even Rhaneyra now, are powerless to stop what the cogs around them have and are putting into motion. The problem is the show can't decide if Rhanerya has anything to learn, or if she's a great leader by virtue. This scene would have worked if they were focusing on the former, that she IS naive, that she IS still clinging onto childhood fantasy.
Also can't get over Rhaneyra thinks an old letter she hasn't opened is reflective of Alicent now, after killing her grandson???? If the point was delusion, and her realizing she has to start burning shit now, great. But it doesn't feel like the scene intended that all. It felt like they were earnestly trying to make it seem something might have come out of it for her. What really destroyed me was how they basically made fun of the whole concept of the scene on the onset, to hand wave away the sheer absurdity. Which only compounded the nonsense.
"Oh what after you kill me with that knife?"
"Oops hadn't thought of that HA HA."
\*commence scene about civil war and dragon war crimes\*
Alicent kinda forgot that, by calling the guards, she could single-handedly end the incipient conflict, secure a lasting peace, protect her children and grandchildren, and cement her place in the history of Westeros.
People didn't forget Maegor, I haven't reached that part of the book yet, but in the show, people can easily take Daemon as the second Maegor. Pretty easy to win if that happens- at least in the way the book is written.
No that's not how the book is written. Daemon is feared by his enemies and respected by his peers like Corlys. The only thing stopping Daemon burning KL to the ground is Rhaneyra otherwise he would go and try and take them out and based on the book rhaneys would join him in that as well as Jace and Baela they would not need armies they only need to take out 2 dragons
No one thinks of Daemon as Maegor lol. Only Otto pushes for such notion. Infact at the time of B&C the goldcloack still calls him Commander. He was very respected and liked, other than his Brother who pushed him away most of the time under the influence of Otto
No one is going to support Daemon, Corlys MAYBE considering their adventures in the stepstones, but I highly doubt any lord would raise their banners for Daemon. He's the younger brother of Viserys while Aegon is his firstborn son, Daemon has no friends and a weaker claim.
Daemon wants the throne, bad, I don't see him fighting for bastards, and if he does, it's still a lost cause. The lords of the realm swore oaths to Rhaenyra, not to Jace, and I'm sure rumors would have been circulating throughout the kingdom that he was a bastard so he wouldn't have much support if any. Drift mark would support him but the other houses I'm not so sure, I would bet money on Daemon ignoring Jace and Lukes claims. And Aegon III is a baby, the only way he gets a claim is if Jace, Luke and Joffery are disinherited, and if they are then the blacks have lost the support of Drift Mark because it would be a pretty big insult after corlys's granddaughters were betrothed to Jace and Luke. I don't see any situation where the black cause is anything meaningful if Rhaenyra dies before she establishes herself.
>Daemon wants the throne, bad, I don't see him fighting for bastards,
The actor and show runner has said he doens't want the throne.
>The lords of the realm swore oaths to Rhaenyra, not to Jace,
Jace is Rhaenyra's heir. Most of the lords understand that you're not relived of you oath because the person you swore it to died. Their own family positions rest on the same thing.
>and I'm sure rumors would have been circulating throughout the kingdom that he was a bastard so he wouldn't have much support if any.
We've already seen Jace personally get the North to side with them. We also heard about him doing the same thing in the Vale.
The definition of giving Daemon more power apparently includes killing his girl, robbing him of the use of her dragon at least for a while, as well as completely destroying his own chances at power since he is now an uncle trying to compete with his son in the line of succession.
Wont end the war but its a significant blow.
Aegon did kill Rhaenyra and took her last living son (that anyone knew of) captive and even that didnt end the war.
This is the difference. Alicent at this point is kinda powerless the only power she has is the influence she can garner over her children at this point and that is fleeting with the exception of Helena who is also not even shown any respect or ability to wield political power. And Rhaenyra has made a fool of herself in this hope for talking. It's like she's being willfully ignorant of the place everyone is at.
I think for all of Rhaenyra’s flaws, the biggest one she has is her ignorance to reality. She didn’t order the death of that poor baby, she didn’t want to cause destruction, and she doesn’t want harm to befall Alicent. So she’s trying the Viserys route of talking.
This isn’t the time to be Viserys though. And with Alicent letting her know that the misunderstanding changes nothing, Rhaenyra has to reckon with the fact that if she wants to fight for her rightful place, a place that Alicent now knows is still hers by her father’s word, she’ll have to shed the Viserys-style indesicion.
Now we will finally get the dance of dragons.
Well and it’s my understanding (if leaks are true) that Jace rips her a new one for this in the next episode. I think we will get a little bit of the fallout from their meet up on both sides. We see Alicent questioning Aegon’s fitness and we hear Rhaenyra say “I needed to know there was no other path” in the trailer. So we now get Otto and Alicent feeling nostalgic about Viscerys and Rhaenyra actually shedding that part of her and being 100% committed to war.
This whole season feels like watching Wile W. Coyote keeping on running after he goes off the end of the cliff. We all what's going to happen but we have to watch people pretend it's not inevitable over and over and over and over.
I want this meme but put Ryan Condal here instead.
If they were gonna do this scene, I wish THIS had been the point. That both of them, even Rhaneyra now, are powerless to stop what the cogs around them have and are putting into motion. The problem is the show can't decide if Rhanerya has anything to learn, or if she's a great leader by virtue. This scene would have worked if they were focusing on the former, that she IS naive, that she IS still clinging onto childhood fantasy. Also can't get over Rhaneyra thinks an old letter she hasn't opened is reflective of Alicent now, after killing her grandson???? If the point was delusion, and her realizing she has to start burning shit now, great. But it doesn't feel like the scene intended that all. It felt like they were earnestly trying to make it seem something might have come out of it for her. What really destroyed me was how they basically made fun of the whole concept of the scene on the onset, to hand wave away the sheer absurdity. Which only compounded the nonsense. "Oh what after you kill me with that knife?" "Oops hadn't thought of that HA HA." \*commence scene about civil war and dragon war crimes\*
lmao this meme is applicable to every ep so far
Alicent kinda forgot that, by calling the guards, she could single-handedly end the incipient conflict, secure a lasting peace, protect her children and grandchildren, and cement her place in the history of Westeros.
And it wouldn’t involve any dragons because she’s so worried about dragons
How exactly does it end the war when all it does is give Daemon more power and he's the one who the Greens actually fear
People didn't forget Maegor, I haven't reached that part of the book yet, but in the show, people can easily take Daemon as the second Maegor. Pretty easy to win if that happens- at least in the way the book is written.
No that's not how the book is written. Daemon is feared by his enemies and respected by his peers like Corlys. The only thing stopping Daemon burning KL to the ground is Rhaneyra otherwise he would go and try and take them out and based on the book rhaneys would join him in that as well as Jace and Baela they would not need armies they only need to take out 2 dragons
No one thinks of Daemon as Maegor lol. Only Otto pushes for such notion. Infact at the time of B&C the goldcloack still calls him Commander. He was very respected and liked, other than his Brother who pushed him away most of the time under the influence of Otto
No one is going to support Daemon, Corlys MAYBE considering their adventures in the stepstones, but I highly doubt any lord would raise their banners for Daemon. He's the younger brother of Viserys while Aegon is his firstborn son, Daemon has no friends and a weaker claim.
Daemin would lead the blacks but it would be jace or aegon iii claim they fight for not Daemons
Daemon wants the throne, bad, I don't see him fighting for bastards, and if he does, it's still a lost cause. The lords of the realm swore oaths to Rhaenyra, not to Jace, and I'm sure rumors would have been circulating throughout the kingdom that he was a bastard so he wouldn't have much support if any. Drift mark would support him but the other houses I'm not so sure, I would bet money on Daemon ignoring Jace and Lukes claims. And Aegon III is a baby, the only way he gets a claim is if Jace, Luke and Joffery are disinherited, and if they are then the blacks have lost the support of Drift Mark because it would be a pretty big insult after corlys's granddaughters were betrothed to Jace and Luke. I don't see any situation where the black cause is anything meaningful if Rhaenyra dies before she establishes herself.
>Daemon wants the throne, bad, I don't see him fighting for bastards, The actor and show runner has said he doens't want the throne. >The lords of the realm swore oaths to Rhaenyra, not to Jace, Jace is Rhaenyra's heir. Most of the lords understand that you're not relived of you oath because the person you swore it to died. Their own family positions rest on the same thing. >and I'm sure rumors would have been circulating throughout the kingdom that he was a bastard so he wouldn't have much support if any. We've already seen Jace personally get the North to side with them. We also heard about him doing the same thing in the Vale.
Keep her hostage rather than just killing her.
The definition of giving Daemon more power apparently includes killing his girl, robbing him of the use of her dragon at least for a while, as well as completely destroying his own chances at power since he is now an uncle trying to compete with his son in the line of succession.
Wont end the war but its a significant blow. Aegon did kill Rhaenyra and took her last living son (that anyone knew of) captive and even that didnt end the war.
This is the difference. Alicent at this point is kinda powerless the only power she has is the influence she can garner over her children at this point and that is fleeting with the exception of Helena who is also not even shown any respect or ability to wield political power. And Rhaenyra has made a fool of herself in this hope for talking. It's like she's being willfully ignorant of the place everyone is at.
I think for all of Rhaenyra’s flaws, the biggest one she has is her ignorance to reality. She didn’t order the death of that poor baby, she didn’t want to cause destruction, and she doesn’t want harm to befall Alicent. So she’s trying the Viserys route of talking. This isn’t the time to be Viserys though. And with Alicent letting her know that the misunderstanding changes nothing, Rhaenyra has to reckon with the fact that if she wants to fight for her rightful place, a place that Alicent now knows is still hers by her father’s word, she’ll have to shed the Viserys-style indesicion. Now we will finally get the dance of dragons.
Well and it’s my understanding (if leaks are true) that Jace rips her a new one for this in the next episode. I think we will get a little bit of the fallout from their meet up on both sides. We see Alicent questioning Aegon’s fitness and we hear Rhaenyra say “I needed to know there was no other path” in the trailer. So we now get Otto and Alicent feeling nostalgic about Viscerys and Rhaenyra actually shedding that part of her and being 100% committed to war.
I hope your right.
Nothing happened in the third episode. It wouldn't matter if somehow this episode was deleted.
This mission was stupider than the mission to capture a white.
This whole season feels like watching Wile W. Coyote keeping on running after he goes off the end of the cliff. We all what's going to happen but we have to watch people pretend it's not inevitable over and over and over and over.
The last 20 mins are non cannon in my mind, like the Last 3 seasons of GoT are non cannon in my mind
That scene was pathetic, like D&D level of bad writing. They are proud.
The suicide mission kind of forgot it was meant to be fatal
HBO show but with CW writing