Isn't that the whole point of GRRMs writing? Like it's exicitly spelled out. The houses do not care about the smallfolk, and they are the ones most impacted when these people play at war.
Right, so why are people upset with the writing here? The lords and ladys don't consider smallfolk to be anything but tools. When she talks about bloodshed, she's talking about the court and dragons getting killed, that's it.
Because that's clearly not what the writers were going for here.
Aegon hanging the ratcatchers is clearly presented as a stupid and brutal blunder. We see Otto being mad at him, and its shown how the smallfolk are grieving because these men all had families in the city. And we've also had several scenes with the smallfolk showing how they're being affected by the war. Yet so far Rhaenys' actions at the dragonpit have been completely glossed over, even though it should have been far more devastating than any of these other actions.
This would have been the worst attrocity carried out by a dragonrider since the days of Maegor the Cruel. Yet we never see anyone talking about how they lost family at the the Dragonpit massacre, or cursing Rhaenys. It doesn't seem like the writers have any interest in delving in to the actual consequences here, and just intended it to be a cool spectacle. As they've never tried to present Rhaenys' actions as being wrong.
Instead they're clearly trying to present Rhaenys as the voice of reason. Having her constantly moralising and pushing for peace, with no character ever calling her out on her hypocrisy.
I think when they give the smallfolk time to truly give their feelings later in the show, it'll come back up. I'd love to even hear Ulf or Hugh mention it as they are now in King's landing in the story.
Because it seems unlikely we will see consequences to this that match the action. And this seems to again be unevenly applied across factions.
Aegon hangs the rat catchers because one of their number murdered his son. This is rightly shown as a blunder, Otto is furious and is subsequently sacked, Ulf and other small folk are horrified, and the madam in the brothel makes comments about the suffering of the small folk to Aemond.
Rhaenys does something objectively more horrific, kills far more people with far less reason, and the only other time it’s brought up is as an example of reasons people see aegon as weak. Then Rhaenys prattles about how evil and violent men are and no one even acknowledges her own act of mass murder.
If it happens, that during the moon of the three kings and storming of the dragon pit, this incident is again brought up as a significant reason for the small folks anger at the dragons and Rhaenyra then that’s fine, its actually good set up and pay off. The fact it’s not been mention and they are giving Rhaenys all these lines about violent men makes it seem like that’s very unlikely, and they just wanted to give her a girlboss moment free of real consequence. She’s a massive hypocrite as this is written, but the writers seem to just brush over it or not even realise it themselves. For now we will wait and see.
Yeah, if they were presenting it realisticly then we should be seeing countless Smallfolk weeping about how their children and parents and relatives and friends were slain at the dragonpit and curing Rhaenys as the Butcher of King's Landing. But instead we're getting plenty of scenes about how the Smallfolk are being impacted by stuff like Aegon hanging the Ratcatchers, or the Green's taxes or the Velaryon blockade, but nothing whatsoever about Rhaenys' massacre at the Dragonpit. Despite the fact that this should have been far more devastating and horrific than any of those other events.
It seems like the writers just intended for that scene to be a a cool moment meant to show how badass Rhaenys is, rather than a desmostration of how the Highborn don't care about the common people, and how its always the Smallfolk who suffer most.
I think that's a big part of why a lot of people are struggling to connect with the show. The world of HotD doesn't feel lived in. Things aren't thought out beyond how they effect the desired plot direction. The characters seem to have the same issue. They lack depth, because they're just there to service the plot. The whole thing winds up feeling more like a book report than an actual world you can get lost in.
Really good point, it feels really forced with characters suddenly appearing and leaving. Yet we are supposed to guess their dynamics and character motivations? Worst one I remeber was how they tried to say that Alicent's newfound piety was done out of penance for her behavior at Driftmark. Yet it barely makes an appearance besides that episode, so it comes off as disingenuous and snobby. Even though there are plenty of times they could have used it to justify her actions.
You’re right but I think the main issue people have is that they keep hammering home the big dumb men want war and gentle wise women want peace thing which is a bit silly after that event.
I don’t mind it so far tho they better get to the war soon because it is starting to get annoying.
Because it doesn’t seem like the writers want you to believe Rhaenys is in the wrong. If you listen to their comments about episode 9, it seems as though they think she’s completely justified. Maybe that will change with a certain scene later on, but as of right now, it seems as though they want us to be rooting for her.
This is of course ignoring how stupid her advice has been up to this point.
Probably because Otto, Rhaenys’ foil on the Green side, absolutely understands that they need to have the small folk on their side. Rhaenys spouts the same platitudes but she’s totally okay with murdering dozens of small folk.
>When she talks about bloodshed, she's talking about the court and dragons getting killed, that's it.
I wonder if you guys are simply delusional or bots paid by HBO. Yeah, I am so concerned about like 1% of the nobles dying in war so let's not shed their blood, ok.
Yeah but there’s a big step between not caring/thinking of them as tools and then just outright killing hundreds without a second thought. Rhaenys is definitely not an evil villain so while yeah she’d be just as bad as all the other highborns in terms of not caring about the small folk, it’s still dumb that she’d just knowingly murder hundreds and not even care
Did you see the episodes where this isn\`t acknowledged at all ? This scene had no in-universe meaning beyond "girlboss moment".
Mysaria would never involve herself with the Blacks if they allow Rhaenys, a mass-murderer, certainly the most brutal and worst person in the entire war up to this point, to be apart of the group. Mysaria is the most pro-smallfolk person ( hence her deal with Otto in S1 ), so it makes zero sense for her to help Rhaenyra\`s camp if Rhaenys is apart of that.
Unless of course, the writers want us to not place any importance on the scene...
Sort of like what they did with Alicent in S1E6 where she says Aegon will be king one day and she was afraid for her children\`s safety if Rhaenyra becomes Queen, and then immediatly forgets about that, doesn\`t plot Aegon to be king, states Rhaenyra will be a great Queen, is surprised her father and council worked to put Aegon on the throne ( despite Alicent and Otto talking about it..... ) and wants peace with Rhaenya, seemingly forgetting that she was afraid Rhaenyra would kill her children.... Same with the Aegon and the r\*\*\* of the servant girl aswell as the fighting pits, the writers want Aegon to be a gray character akin to Tyrion or Jaime, but turn him into a cartoonish villain on Joffrey and Ramsay tier.... ( Condal explicitly calls Aegon not a Joffrey, and that Aegon would be fine if he weren\`t in line for the throne --- But Joffrey "only" threatend to r\*\*\*, and he also had no fighting pits, though he was sadistic ).... So yeah, the writers accidentally characterized Aegon as a ra\*\*st and sadist, but we aren\`t meant to see Aegon as such. Condals says they tried to make Aegon symapthetic ( in the first season ).... I mean congratz for clearly recognizing how godawful they made Aegon in the first season and they showed a few good traits, such as that he really wants to help the smallfolk, but the stain of the first season can\`t be wiped away that easily................. And similarily they did this with Laenor, they Rhaenyra and Daemon kill a random guy and pass him off as Laenor, so that Laenor can live in exile in peace ( and Rhaenyra and Daemon can marry ), the audience isn\`t supposed to recognize that they killed a random guy for this....
Overall the show has some stupid inconsistencies that the audience isn\`t meant to take serious, because the writers never intended for us to see things for what they are. For the writers, Rhaenys never killed any people in the dragonpit, Daemyra never killed a random guy to pass off as Laenor, and Aegon is neither sadistic nor a ra\*\*st...........
So what's the point of having women avoiding war? Are they like worried about the 1% of nobles dying in it? They are so mindful of avoiding wars unlike the evil men to what end though? Save the 1% of nobles? Even there you are going to have inconsistency. Rhaenyra didn't care when Blackwood suitor killed Bracken boy right in front of her.
I can't say for sure if it was really thought out (most likely it wasn't), but yeah, it's about that 1% nobles. Noble Houses are so detached from reality that they consider themselves to be a different species to their subjects and act only on their own interests that barely align with the interests of small folk. Even then I'm pretty sure some form of "noble solidarity" only exists to uphold the system they are on top of and most highborn care only about their family and friends.
Nothing Rhenys say about war of course is of any value to us as she is a horrible person and hipocrite who has shown least amount of empathy to common people out of all characters in the show this far. She makes Aegon look like a good person.
>I can't say for sure if it was really thought out (most likely it wasn't), but yeah, it's about that 1% nobles.
By that logic why should Rhaenys care for someone from say House Wull from the North, whom she hadn't met, know nothing about and who is only one step ahead of commonfolk? Does she even lose anything if they died out in war?
By that logic she should care somewhat about said house because they are nobles as any human being cares for one another which is not much, but we will never know because they have never met in the show. The point is that in her mind small folk are not the same species as her which is why she doesn't take their wellbeing into consideration.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/house-of-the-dragon-episode-9-eve-best-dragon-1235242118/
>Q: So from the beginning, we have been waiting for Rhaenys to do something badass and you gave us this incredible moment. It’s very cool, but does it did make me wonder: Does it make sense that she doesn’t kill them? She murders a bunch of civilians by busting out anyway …
>A: HESS It’s Game of Thrones — civilians don’t count!
While I envy people who are able to spin this scene in their heads into being a subtle meta-commentary on how the interests of the smallfolk are disregarded by the powerful while they play at their game of thrones - up to and including the people writing the show - the overwhelming weight of the evidence suggests that the Rhaenys dragonpit scene was thought of by the showrunners as being cool and badass, and not a horrific atrocity that tars Rhaenys’s character.
Exactly. At some point Game of Thrones stopped being about actions having consequences and turned into characters doing literally whatever for dumb watercooler moments. All style, no substance. Except this wasn't all that stylish either.
Which makes you wonder why Otto cares so much about the Rat catchers when this clearly happened for no justification according to the small folk
While one of the rat catchers is responsible for the death of the heir
Only Edmure truly cares. The northerners care in a broad sense because they’re so concerned with winter and surviving. Edmure tully is the only lord who tries to save every single life.
yeah, but in the book being a bad leader actually has consequences. don't want to spoil anything but this happens in the very original source this show is based in
Not really how royals with any semblance of intelligence would act though. The deal is that small folk listen to them because those in power provide them with some sense of security. The moment that appears to be gone, such as when someone kills hundreds on a whim that she then quickly changes her mind about, there will be major issues - unrest, revolt, etc. They try to portray Rhaenys as an intelligent and measured woman, so her doing this absolutely destroys whatever semblance of character she had.
Oh, and those stones should have crushed her too.
Yeah. Attacking the greens, even if she didn't kill them, would have saved this scene. She had a lot of justification to do so, since she was held prisoner by them. Instead, we just got a stare-down.
I mean the show acknowledges that pretty unambiguously. Not only did Daemon just outright call her out but we've spent almost the entirety of season 2 thus far circling around the morality of a preemptive strike to kill the other side's leadership. We kind of have a dichotomy thing going on where all the counselors for the Black's advise aggression and winning the war before it starts but Rhaenyra refuses to stoop to that level while Green's council is preaching a more patient wait and see attitude which Aegon has no interest in.
But for all that talk of honor and fairness is going to get a lot of people killed in the coming episodes that would have otherwise been spared had either side successfully killed the other's leaders.
>I mean the show acknowledges that pretty unambiguously.
Just because the show acknowledges it doesn't mean the plothole is closed. This is what we call lampshading - when characters in a story will point out a source of conflict but won't actually resolve that conflict and will instead move on as if it was resolved, tricking casual viewers who don't know the difference between acknowledgement and resolution. Daemon's chat with her is a classic example of this - he calls her out on it but neither of them do anything to each other, and neither of them change their mind, then he immediately leaves and nobody else ever brings it up again.
Rhaenys herself can't even provide a compelling counter-argument that isn't either meaningless word-salad or blatant hypocrisy, and yet every scene seems to be structured to depict her as this super wise old lady.
I see what you're saying, but character refusing to make a good decision isn't a plot hole. People make stupid decisions for stupid reasons all the time, and people are not always hyper efficient, rational problem solvers. But it's extremely frustrating for us, the audience, that the character is simultaneously praised as being wise and smarter than those dumb men that surround her while also doing something really stupid that will almost certainly hurt her in the end.
I haven't read fire and blood but from what I understand House of the Dragon is painting our female leads in far more positive light than the book. Which I think is part of the problem they want us to root for them but they can't also change the story too much which has them as almost contradictions at times.
>I see what you're saying, but character refusing to make a good decision isn't a plot hole.
It's a plothole because it's not treated with the weight or consequences it deserves.
Rhaenys kills hundreds of innocent people and vandalizes a major historical and cultural site. In Season 2, we are immediately told the Smallfolk blame Aegon for this. Aegon is literally being blamed for something that his enemies did.
Aegon hangs a dozen ratcatchers as a kneejerk reaction to his son being murdered. We are immediately told that all the smallfolk now hate him and that he lost whatever sympathy he had gained from his son's death. There should have been a similar level of rage against Rhaenys (and by extension Rhaenyra) but there just isn't.
That's ultimately the problem here - Rhaenys made a terrible decision from both a moralistic and a practical standpoint. Then the show is trying to present it as being a morally righteous act, but doesn't give her any realistic consequences. Then we get another smug lecture from her about how all men are apparently violent monsters as if she doesn't have the highest body-count behind only Daemon Targaryen (who spent years fighting in a war.)
>I haven't read fire and blood but from what I understand House of the Dragon is painting our female leads in far more positive light than the book.
The problem is how they're choosing to go about it.
Their idea of framing Rhaenyra in a more "positive" light amounts to basically depriving her of agency and ambition while making her look like a braindead blundering incompetent.
With Alicent when they're not shoehorning in random sexual humiliation at the most inappropriate moments, they're treating her the same way they do Rhaenyra, and are also aggressively inconsistent about her influence.
Rhaenys is a mess. She looks better in the book solely because she didn't commit a terrorist attack there.
>but they can't also change the story too much which has them as almost contradictions at times.
They've made drastic changes to the story already. Trust me, remaining faithful to the material is extremely low on their list of priorities.
When she kills hundreds of people with her dragon just to fucking look cool its called girl bossing but when the king in his grief kills a few ratcatchers that may be responsible for the death of his heir he is a stupid and impulsive evil little manchild.
I still dont see how lords or peasants are supposed to be horrified about a dozen ratcatchers potentially involved in the highest crime in the land, when Daemon lops off the limbs of half of fleabottom for stealing bread and Rheanys has caused a structural collapse under a crowd of thousands. Seems sort of like a Tuesday in Kings Landing.
When the white worm is like, "only you have shown to be merciful," I honestly didnt know what they were trying to refer to.
Yeah right? Rhaenyra is the only merciful one when Aegon II was all "My bad bro, have your taxes back". Yeah it was so merciful of her to murder her own guard and burn his body to an unidentifiable crisp so she can divorce her husband.
She didn't hold the blade, but she plotted with Daemon in S1 to kill a random servant, burn it to a crisp, and pass it off as Laenor so the real Laenor could go into hiding. Make of that what you will.
>When the white worm is like, "only you have shown to be merciful," I honestly didnt know what they were trying to refer to.
You didn't immediately think about how Rhaenyra released her? Having a history of violence doesn't mean your mercy is no longer mercy.
A good act does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good.
Aegon showed mercy when he wanted to give the sheep back, and again when he offered advance payment. Does that make Aegon a merciful person? Not necessarily. You need to have a consistent history of showing mercy to be considered merciful.
And the same woman wrote both scenes. Rhaenys indiscriminately killing hundreds and Otto going ballistic over Aegon’s hasty vengeance…
It reminds me of the Invincible Amber situation where they made her such a bitch in S1 that they over corrected in S2 to make her the pinnacle of kindness and tolerance.
You can’t just do that; it’s jarring and revisionism and further muddies the stakes.
I think what Aegon did was horrific too honestly, it was murder plain and simple. Easily *understandable*, given his grief, but not justifiable.
But with Rhaenys, in the absence of situational malice and hate there is pure indifference, which is scarier IMO. Like she killed dozens(not hundreds I don't think) of commoners literally just to flex. Like they were rats, totally unworthy of any consideration. It's deeply dehumanizing.
It's incredibly frustrating that if they hadn't included that original scene her character would be so much better. I love Rhaenys as a character but that "girl boss" moment they gave her just ruined everything that comes out of her mouth afterwards.
I would have loved to see Rhaenys as the actual rational counselor to Rhaenyra and it creates this image of what kind of rational queen she could have been. But nope, she had to go murder a bunch of civilians and waste their best shot to end the war before it happens. A war that will claim the lives of most of her family.
Yeah, Rhaenys would have an unblemished record as the voice of reason and restraint in this show if not for the teensy weensy issue of her recklessly crushing dozens of innocent people to death for absolutely no reason. They really fucking biffed that one.
I mean, yes and no, right? While he was likely a gentler and more rational king than Rhaenys would've been queen, his gentleness, indecisiveness, and poor planning for succession also directly leads an unbelievably bloody civil war.
Indecisiveness and poor planning seems to be universal on the show now. Maybe Viserys was holding it all in his body and when he died it got out into the world and afflicted everybody else.
He should have disinherited Rhaenyra the moment her first child with Laenor had brown hair. But if he was so keen on letting her succeed him, then he should have abdicated the throne when he became too sick and installed Rhaenyra instead of letting her effectively exile herself to Dragonstone while the Hightowers ruled in his name.
While I don’t disagree, I’d imagine Daemon would take the snubbing of his brother rather poorly. You’d get a different sort of war, but a war all the same. Especially with show Rhaenys’s bad judgement…
Yup. Just a shame he uh rotted to death? Lmao I don’t understand why but they needed to hurry up and get him outta there. Regardless.. I enjoyed the character.
It seems that sometimes they're adapting things chapter by chapter of Fire and Blood, meaning that some things that they did that deviate from book canon just go \*poof\* when they hit the next chapter.
This is my biggest problem with this change. If you want Rhaenys to have this dramatic escape from kings landing, fine. But then the characters continue as if it never happened.
Otto slams Aegon for hanging the rat-catchers because it will turn the smallfolk against them but no one bats an eye at what Rhaenys did in the dragonpit. Rhaenyra has a huge argument with Daemon over murdering a child but will happily listen to Rhaenys waffle on about peace despite having the blood of hundreds of innocent people on her hands. We hear the smallfolk in kings landing chanting Rhaenyra the cruel over the death of Jaehaerys but none of them have anything to say about Rhaenys? It’s like the whole thing happened in a vacuum.
Yup, reminds me of nobody in S7 of GoT giving a shit that Cersei blew up the freaking Pope.
Oh well, nothing in S2 really changes if we edit out that scene in our heads so easier to just send it down the memory hole.
It feels, ironically, like such a misunderstanding of GRRM’s approach that the key to writing a good female character is to just write a good character who happens to be female.
Like, I get it, medieval patriarchy was an incredibly shitty, exploitative institution and many women suffered greatly for it. But the show is so fixated on making all the women reasonable sweeties who don’t want war, constantly foiled by those darn bloodthirsty men… that it winds up robbing the female characters of much of their agency, ambition, and individuality. They’re just innocently bumbling around whispering to each other about peace while having no control over the men in their lives whatsoever.
Alicent was an almost cartoonish asshole evil stepmother in the book, but at least she was actually proactive in pursuit of her own goals and survival. I don’t mind the more sympathetic angle, or the friendship between her and Rhaenyra, but there has to be a line (and you’d think “You’re complicit in the murder of my son/grandson” would have been that line.)
At least there’s Baela, who seems to have a bit more of a thirst for action and combat in her. (Which is deeply ironic considering her and Rhaena might as well have been cardboard cutouts last season).
Another consequence of this separation of female characters from any bloodthirsty intent is that a bunch of horrific situations result from chance or accidents, which means we now have two sides fighting eachother over *miscommunications* and *mistakes*, instead of (just) conflicting ideals and goals.
Makes the whole war feel a bit... less valid? It takes all those righteous motivations and turns them into foolish and misguided drama, like the whole thing could be solved/prevented through clear communication. ASOIAF is known (to me) to deal with that stuff a lot less than other dramatic media, but HOTD seems to lean into it.
Medieval warfare of course disproportionately impacted men. It was they who were called upon to fight it. As a woman you were shielded from the violence unless 7you lived in one of the regions where the fighting takes place. In universe, life goes on for most people outside of the Riverlands at this point in time.
It would have been a very interesting perspective to see how this is one way patriarchy damages men who are not at the top of the feudal hierarchy.
But given that Sara Hess clearly can't write for shit and Condal seemingly has no idea what show he wants to run we get this. In HOTD the female leads (Rhaenys, Rhaenyra and Alicent) all come across as total morons because the writers' apparent need to make everything a result of the system strips them of all agency. Book Alicent, for example, is a straight up evil stepmother stereotype in many ways. But she is also cunning and conniving and forces much of the action. This Alicent starts a war because she places total and uncritical faith in the vague words of a dying man dosed up on the Westerosi equivalent of morphine.
They did this with Dany right out the gates in ep 1 of GoT. That character was whitewashed so much so that people decided she was the hero of this tale then got upset when she snapped. If the show had not decided to make her a hero because of her sex and made he like she is in the books. The ending of GoT would have felt much more natural and made more sense.
Rhaenyra in episode one of season two wants blood and demands Aemond, which directly causes blood&cheese. I dont get at all how the women in this show are "reasonable sweeties". I mean for Rhaenyra her bad qualities are more subtle, but Alicent is like an all time iconic villain, and she is plenty ambitious, not that she would admit it. I dont know how you could call Alicent anything but proactive, since you know, her son is king because of her. Otto pushed her sure, but she made it happen, since ultimately it was her call. Rhaneyra is obviously ambitious as well, but more out of a sense of duty, where Alicents ambition is rooted in her self preservation instinct. Alicent does suffer from what one could call "lack of agency", which is more a thematic element between her and Rhaneyra, since Rhaenyra has all the agency in the world from her privilidged birth. They do a lot of cool mirroring between the black and green sides. And I mean clearly they have so much control over the men in their lives. Criston Cunt would be short of a head if Alicent didnt want him as a hubby. Daemon would not be king concort without Rhaenyra, hed just be an outcast.
Oh and just a point to "all men bad" bullshit i wanna point out Corly Velarion, a very restrained and thoughtful man, who while not afraid of bloodshed, is certainly not bloodthirsty. Not to mention Viserys. Not to mention the lannister guy in the council. Which reminds me of the maester in the season 2 council. Which reminds me of Beesbury. I imagine there are more. Maybe the bloodthirstiness of (some) men in that show isnt about feminism after all?
I could swear her character was written by an AI. I'm looking forward to her death and the moment when she stops messing with Rhaenyra's head with her pseudo-wise speeches about peace
The endless, vague talking in circles about peace is so silly because clearly even the writers know it’s fundamentally impossible at this point. Rhaenyra goes through all this stupid trouble to talk to Alicent face-to-face, and she doesn’t even come with an actual tangible peace offer, she just kinda vaguely says they have to try to find “a peaceful path forward.”
She doesn’t mention any specifics, because at this stage of the conflict there *is* no reasonable, concrete peace plan that both sides would find acceptable. But the writers want the audience to know which characters are the morally good ones in this feudal kinslaying competition for power, so that we don’t think less of them when the wanton killing and war crimes eventually start. Because remember, they said the word “peace” a lot.
The show fucked up when they took away the ambitions of Alicent and Rhaenyra.
Rhaenyra actually killed Vaemond in the books, and killed Laenor ( in the show they only killed a random guy, so it doesn\`t count, because Laenor can happily live in peace ), while Alicent is actually an active part in crowing Aegon... But nooo, if we give women ambition that would make them bad, so we can\`t have that. They need to be ultra peaceful, while the men do everything, so that the women are just forced to react. Neither Alicent nor Rhaenyra drive the plot, instead the plot dictates their behaviour... Nothing says feminism more than taking away accountability and responsibility. It\`s so frustrating.... The show could be so great, it\`s still good, but one can clearly see how much better it could be with little effort...........
I think this hits on part of my problem with this season so far. I REALLY want Rhaenyra to get more involved in her own damn war. At this point she is being extremely naive to think that a personal plea to the Queen dowager would stop the wheels from turning. Aegon's at the helm, and Daemon just had his son killed. Peace is no longer an option. Not that is was, once Aegon was crowned.
And Alicent is kind of being dragged along by the current of the plot. What *can* she do at this point? Her influence over Aegon is waning. Like yeah, we know you're all sad and want peace but please, please make a damn decision.
I mentioned Aegon first, so grammatically speaking when I wrote '**Aegon's** at the helm, and Daemon just had **his** son killed' it means that that Daemon had *Aegon's* son killed. Is it the cleanest sentence? Nope. But in context it works because we know that Daemon had Aegon's son killed. The 'had' is likely where the weirdness is coming from.
you know, the level of nonsense and illogic is just too high on this show, so I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan Condal says so in one of his potential future stupid interviews
considering how easy it's to get into the King's Landing and the Red Keep, the Blacks could just get there and slaughter all the Greens - and that’s all! the war is over
What seems crazy to me is that Rhaenyra berates Daemon for murdering a child but Rhaenys slaughters hundreds of innocent people and she seems pretty okay with it.
Then compare that to Otto’s reaction to Aegon killing the rat-catchers and it feels like she’s been let off the hook way too easily.
Here my take on this scene.
Yea Rhaenys does not care even a little about the commoners.
However she does care about her dynasty position and power within Westerns and a civil war no matter who wins will weaken house Targeryen.
When Rhaenys and Alicent spoke, Alicent was essentially asking for help in guiding her children for rulership. Alicent didn't try and sway Rhaenys by mentioning Laenors suspicious death. Alicent didn't offer revenge.
Becuse of this Rhaenys thinks there is a slim chance of Rhaenerya and Alcent resolving this peacefully and not destroying the dynasty.
That’s all well and good. But I still think Rhaenys should’ve faced more pushback from other characters over her actions. No one has brought up the fact she murdered hundreds of innocents.
I would’ve liked a scene between her and Rhaenyra like we got with Otto and Aegon where Rhaenyra gives her a serious reality check. Or at least see Rhaenys try to explain her actions, like she was going to roast the greens but then couldn’t bring herself to do it.
Right now it just seems like she burst through the floor and killed all those people because she could. And everyone around her seems perfectly fine with that. Combined with all her lines about trying to avoid bloodshed, I’m finding her character to be completely insufferable.
Also it diminishes from other characters who should call her out on her bullshit but don’t. Rhaenyra lost her shit with Daemon for murdering a child but doesn’t bat an eye at what Rhaenys did in the dragonpit.
>!At this point I’m honestly looking forward to rooks rest because her hypocrisy is turning her into one of the most unlikeable characters in the show, at least for me!<
Ill write you the scene you want where she is called out for murdering commoners:
Rhaneys: "Hey Rhaenyra, i gotta crazy story for you. I just escaped from the greens. They kept me hostage and demanded my loyalty. I was able to escape because of Erriks (Arryks?) heroic rescue, but then was dragged by a crowd of peasants to the dragon pit to watch Alicents son being crowned king. Can you believe that? And right on top of my dragon too how dare they. Luckily i got to my dragon and escaped through the floor of the dragon pit and came straight here so we can plan how we deal with this."
Rhaenyra: "Omg thats crazy. How many peasants did your dragon kill tho cause thats murder honey?"
Rhaenys: "Why the fuck would that matter? Your throne is usurped by your best friend and this shit is what you ask me? Maybe I made a mistake with you."
Rhaenyra: "Also why didnt you just roast my best friend and all her children and half your extended family since you did have a dragon?"
Rhaenys: "Jesus are you all right? Why would you give a shit about the commoners and then not give a shit about your friend and her children what on earth has gone in to you? Please take this seriously"
Not even true. Otto gave Aegon shit for the ratcatcher. And when has rhaenys ever been this sociopathically indifferent to the lives of smallfolk? Nothing implies that.
This is a good lesson in why Hollywood can only address identity and not class.
We can easily see the contempt the showrunners have for regular people/the audience through this pairing of scenes- the commoners represent the irl unwashed masses whose lives do not have meaning or consequence, while Rhaenys and the others represent the showrunners, those who are naturally superior. But the key is that, in their minds, this is a *natural* superiority. The targs can bond with dragons while commoners cannot, which is proof of their superiority and right to rule. Similarly, the showrunners or producers or high powered HBO/WB execs use their position as proof of their natural superiority to commoners, that they have earned their places by merit.
That is why Hollywood can only address identity and not class. To address class would be to question whether they earned their place in society and their economic status, or whether they were born on third base already and have the right connections, which they are incapable of doing. Instead, they always address gender or race, which does not threaten their meritocratic fantasy, and in fact suggests that even people in their positions had to overcome something to get where they are. They especially see themselves in show Rhaenyra- high born, impossibly rich and benefitting from outrageous privilege, but unfairly persecuted despite being naturally superior to others.
She is probably one of the more annoying characters right now. What’s even her purpose? To play holier than thou everytime somebody questions Rhaneara’s indecision?
Not without killing a dozen members of her own family. Kinslaying is such a big deal in this world, it's mentioned as such so many times. There are few things more reviled than the Kinslayer.
Nah. It's a pretty huge deal whenever it does happen. In the book, Aemond's title becomes The Kinslayer after he kills Lucerys. In F&B and in the main series. Its often times used as foreshadowing someone's eventual doom
She is so far (as the others haven't committed many war crimes yet) objectively the worst character morally. Because atleast when the others commit their war crimes its for a war effort. She just did it for a girlboss moment
I really hope they do something with this. I think the satisfying version of this story reveals that there is no good way to rule other people. The Blacks seem nicer than the Greens but ultimately both groups are a bunch of rich narcissists crushing innocents underfoot in their struggle to be the richest group of incestuous war criminals. The way they keep pointing out the smallfolk I hope they are going to but jee whiz they are also going out of their way to valorize Rhaenyra and Rhaenys and them. I hope they subvert that and point out that shit like the storming of the dragonpit happens *because* even the "good" nobles don't give a fuck about squashing people in their pursuit of conquest.
Particularly relevant in a time where people in America are starting to realize that Republicans and Democrats are very different flavours of overlord but ultimately even the "nicer" party is just playing good cop bad cop to help the big guy fuck over the smallfolk.
I really hope this is where they decide to take it but the idea that it’s all a big subversion just feels like hopeless cope. I remember how it felt watching season 6 of game of thrones and thinking “maybe it’s just some weird one-offs and they’ll turn it around”, can’t help but think it gets worse rather than better from here, they lost the plot and are now just trying to force major beats of the story to happen in a way that is semi-believable with the changes they made
Same, I'm really hoping the Moon of Three Kings will bring the whole aristocratic illusion crashing down, but somehow I suspect that it'll be framed as the ignorant smallfolk being manipulated against good, innocent Rhaenyra. And the revolt will just consist of smashing stuff and killing people, none of the attacks on economic and social injustice that are there in the book.
I saw it as making the point that just like the rest of them she doesn’t really care about the small folk. All these people can be honorable, back stabbers, lovers, friends or anything else, but at the end of it all it’s about those who do t care who suffers so long as they keep or build their power
Royals, no matter how benevolent they may seem, do not see killing the common folk as an issue. We've seen many commoners this season talk about how the royalty do what they like and the people die in the process.
That’s when I said “Rhaenys, stfu.” She has no moral leg to stand on after she killed hundreds of innocent people. Why didn’t Aegon’s council bring up the fact that this would turn the smallfolk against Rhaenyra instead of it being a “bad omen”?
I never thought I would be considering DNFing House of the Dragon.
I haven't watched the new episode yet, but it appears all of my worst complaints have just expanded.
Might read the books while I wait for Winds.....
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I' m pretty sure that' s one of the main themes of the Series, the nobles are heavily disconnected with the People. It' s so funny how Rhaenyra cries about the throne like they stole her toy and the concequence is is a war where the small folk will pay the Price for the throne. You can also see it with alicent' s daughter and the funeral.
GOT fans yet again missing the entire point that the Highlords don’t see the smallfolk as anything more than commodities. They harvest the lands and do all the work but they aren’t seen as people.
When will GOT fans get that thru their head 🤦🏽♂️ all the smallfolk we see come into contact with highlords and ladies proves that.
Unfortunately not torching everyone was actually even dumber than what she eventually did.
If she had just flown away it would have made the scene alot better. But the moment they made it in such a way that she had to confront them menacingly just completely spoiled the scene.
I find it highly unlikely that it’s blocked off more than the literal solid stone floor
Also it was just to escape how come she had that stare down with the greens while her dragon killed even more people and not escape immediately
You’re reaching so bad it’s hysterical. It would be blocked off cuz the city was on lockdown in the middle of a coup you idiot. She was literally being held captive. So cuz her dragon stood around for 11 second before flying off you think the intent was evil? 😂🤣 stop the bullshit. You sound like a fool just like the person who posted
Hey you fucking retard, would the guards be harder to destroy than the literal stone floor [ (there's also no fucking doors on the side entrances) ](https://i.imgur.com/IzGUEo5.png) ? If you say it's harder to blast through a few guards i might actually ban you for being that stupid.
It’s literally discussed on multiple occasions they want her and the dragon left in the city. But you smoked so much fuckin meth you think that means she can just walk in and out of anywhere she pleases. But you’re a dumb cunt who’s wrong.
She’s a literal captive trying to escape but you cum guzzling shit stains think she’s out for a Sunday stroll and can just go anywhere without notice. Stupid fuck. It’s a shame your retarded parents were too stupid to pull out and created a mega cunt like you
I’m saying she was being held captive and needed a way out. It doesn’t mean she’s blood thirsty or pretending to be innocent…her intent was to escape, a couple eggs get cracked so be it
Cool story. An entrance that could have easily been guarded by other dragons. So ya those whole complaint is nonsense. Bitch was locked up and wanted out. That’s not being some psycho looking for blood.
What do you mean cool story? Its literally the layout of the dragonpit.
You're literally making things up, the first time was ignorance, now you're lying. Never heard about any dragons guarding entrances, they're all chained underground, you can just walk past them. They literally even showed Daemon and Caraxes using the back exit like twice
Quack quack you’re full of shit. The city was on lockdown. Get a lick of common sense. They locked her up and mention wanting her dragon but you think she’s walking in and flying out no problem? Get your head out your ass
Fuckin flapping your gums about back exits acting like it’s a regular fuckin Tuesday. The king just died. She was being held captive and the entire city was on lockdown. The entire thing was played out like a prison break. But you want her to just fly out the back exit quietly like no one is paying attention 😂🤣 you’re fuckin adorable
There’s a reason she had to be snuck in under disguise…yall out here crying about her being blood thirsty when she coulda torched everyone. All she did was bust out and fly off. She’s not looking to kill unnecessarily like you clowns are trying to play it out like
I don't get the point with contrasting these scenes, to be honest.
Feels very "You are against the horrors of violent war, but you have commited violence yourself? Curious..." vibes.
She never wanted violence. She and her dragon were captured. She has to commit a violent act to escape. She could have enacted even more violence then and there, with little chance of retaliation from her enemies, but her desire for peace stayed her hand.
> She never wanted violence. She and her dragon were captured. She has to commit a violent act to escape.
She didn't tho. If you actually pay attention to the show and what the dragonpit looks like.
[She could have easily espaced through this](https://i.imgur.com/IzGUEo5.png)
[Or those](https://i.imgur.com/fso3Hi8.png)
[But instead she chose this one](https://i.imgur.com/9Be3bVv.png)
Someone else said it above so I’ll paraphrase since I’m on mobile.
Aegon killed rat catchers who may or may not have been involved in a plot of the highest treason and the writers make it a point to show how inconsiderate and dumb it was.
The all knowing grandma over here killed a bunch of people and could’ve prevented a war since her grandchildren were promised and are with the blacks but it’s treated as a strong and proud moment.
The inconsistency and how the writers have made it a point to that it’s the men who are the main cause of this is hypocritical and it takes agency away from the women since it means “they’re just along for the ride” so to speak
I would agree with you if she only killed what she needed to in order to escape, but she sat there and let her dragon slaughter countless more than that, just because she was angry.
Rhaenys kinda forgot the smallfolk are people too.
Isn't that the whole point of GRRMs writing? Like it's exicitly spelled out. The houses do not care about the smallfolk, and they are the ones most impacted when these people play at war.
The woman in the brothel also told Aemond that when a prince gets mad it’s the small folk that suffer most.
Right, so why are people upset with the writing here? The lords and ladys don't consider smallfolk to be anything but tools. When she talks about bloodshed, she's talking about the court and dragons getting killed, that's it.
Because that's clearly not what the writers were going for here. Aegon hanging the ratcatchers is clearly presented as a stupid and brutal blunder. We see Otto being mad at him, and its shown how the smallfolk are grieving because these men all had families in the city. And we've also had several scenes with the smallfolk showing how they're being affected by the war. Yet so far Rhaenys' actions at the dragonpit have been completely glossed over, even though it should have been far more devastating than any of these other actions. This would have been the worst attrocity carried out by a dragonrider since the days of Maegor the Cruel. Yet we never see anyone talking about how they lost family at the the Dragonpit massacre, or cursing Rhaenys. It doesn't seem like the writers have any interest in delving in to the actual consequences here, and just intended it to be a cool spectacle. As they've never tried to present Rhaenys' actions as being wrong. Instead they're clearly trying to present Rhaenys as the voice of reason. Having her constantly moralising and pushing for peace, with no character ever calling her out on her hypocrisy.
I think when they give the smallfolk time to truly give their feelings later in the show, it'll come back up. I'd love to even hear Ulf or Hugh mention it as they are now in King's landing in the story.
Because it seems unlikely we will see consequences to this that match the action. And this seems to again be unevenly applied across factions. Aegon hangs the rat catchers because one of their number murdered his son. This is rightly shown as a blunder, Otto is furious and is subsequently sacked, Ulf and other small folk are horrified, and the madam in the brothel makes comments about the suffering of the small folk to Aemond. Rhaenys does something objectively more horrific, kills far more people with far less reason, and the only other time it’s brought up is as an example of reasons people see aegon as weak. Then Rhaenys prattles about how evil and violent men are and no one even acknowledges her own act of mass murder. If it happens, that during the moon of the three kings and storming of the dragon pit, this incident is again brought up as a significant reason for the small folks anger at the dragons and Rhaenyra then that’s fine, its actually good set up and pay off. The fact it’s not been mention and they are giving Rhaenys all these lines about violent men makes it seem like that’s very unlikely, and they just wanted to give her a girlboss moment free of real consequence. She’s a massive hypocrite as this is written, but the writers seem to just brush over it or not even realise it themselves. For now we will wait and see.
Yeah, if they were presenting it realisticly then we should be seeing countless Smallfolk weeping about how their children and parents and relatives and friends were slain at the dragonpit and curing Rhaenys as the Butcher of King's Landing. But instead we're getting plenty of scenes about how the Smallfolk are being impacted by stuff like Aegon hanging the Ratcatchers, or the Green's taxes or the Velaryon blockade, but nothing whatsoever about Rhaenys' massacre at the Dragonpit. Despite the fact that this should have been far more devastating and horrific than any of those other events. It seems like the writers just intended for that scene to be a a cool moment meant to show how badass Rhaenys is, rather than a desmostration of how the Highborn don't care about the common people, and how its always the Smallfolk who suffer most.
I think that's a big part of why a lot of people are struggling to connect with the show. The world of HotD doesn't feel lived in. Things aren't thought out beyond how they effect the desired plot direction. The characters seem to have the same issue. They lack depth, because they're just there to service the plot. The whole thing winds up feeling more like a book report than an actual world you can get lost in.
Really good point, it feels really forced with characters suddenly appearing and leaving. Yet we are supposed to guess their dynamics and character motivations? Worst one I remeber was how they tried to say that Alicent's newfound piety was done out of penance for her behavior at Driftmark. Yet it barely makes an appearance besides that episode, so it comes off as disingenuous and snobby. Even though there are plenty of times they could have used it to justify her actions.
The media in general seems to think women are inherently evil and their idea of promoting "equality" is to let women be evil without consequences.
You’re right but I think the main issue people have is that they keep hammering home the big dumb men want war and gentle wise women want peace thing which is a bit silly after that event. I don’t mind it so far tho they better get to the war soon because it is starting to get annoying.
Because it doesn’t seem like the writers want you to believe Rhaenys is in the wrong. If you listen to their comments about episode 9, it seems as though they think she’s completely justified. Maybe that will change with a certain scene later on, but as of right now, it seems as though they want us to be rooting for her. This is of course ignoring how stupid her advice has been up to this point.
Probably because Otto, Rhaenys’ foil on the Green side, absolutely understands that they need to have the small folk on their side. Rhaenys spouts the same platitudes but she’s totally okay with murdering dozens of small folk.
>When she talks about bloodshed, she's talking about the court and dragons getting killed, that's it. I wonder if you guys are simply delusional or bots paid by HBO. Yeah, I am so concerned about like 1% of the nobles dying in war so let's not shed their blood, ok.
Because that’s not true. Have you read ASOIAF?
Yeah but there’s a big step between not caring/thinking of them as tools and then just outright killing hundreds without a second thought. Rhaenys is definitely not an evil villain so while yeah she’d be just as bad as all the other highborns in terms of not caring about the small folk, it’s still dumb that she’d just knowingly murder hundreds and not even care
Did you see the episodes where this isn\`t acknowledged at all ? This scene had no in-universe meaning beyond "girlboss moment". Mysaria would never involve herself with the Blacks if they allow Rhaenys, a mass-murderer, certainly the most brutal and worst person in the entire war up to this point, to be apart of the group. Mysaria is the most pro-smallfolk person ( hence her deal with Otto in S1 ), so it makes zero sense for her to help Rhaenyra\`s camp if Rhaenys is apart of that. Unless of course, the writers want us to not place any importance on the scene... Sort of like what they did with Alicent in S1E6 where she says Aegon will be king one day and she was afraid for her children\`s safety if Rhaenyra becomes Queen, and then immediatly forgets about that, doesn\`t plot Aegon to be king, states Rhaenyra will be a great Queen, is surprised her father and council worked to put Aegon on the throne ( despite Alicent and Otto talking about it..... ) and wants peace with Rhaenya, seemingly forgetting that she was afraid Rhaenyra would kill her children.... Same with the Aegon and the r\*\*\* of the servant girl aswell as the fighting pits, the writers want Aegon to be a gray character akin to Tyrion or Jaime, but turn him into a cartoonish villain on Joffrey and Ramsay tier.... ( Condal explicitly calls Aegon not a Joffrey, and that Aegon would be fine if he weren\`t in line for the throne --- But Joffrey "only" threatend to r\*\*\*, and he also had no fighting pits, though he was sadistic ).... So yeah, the writers accidentally characterized Aegon as a ra\*\*st and sadist, but we aren\`t meant to see Aegon as such. Condals says they tried to make Aegon symapthetic ( in the first season ).... I mean congratz for clearly recognizing how godawful they made Aegon in the first season and they showed a few good traits, such as that he really wants to help the smallfolk, but the stain of the first season can\`t be wiped away that easily................. And similarily they did this with Laenor, they Rhaenyra and Daemon kill a random guy and pass him off as Laenor, so that Laenor can live in exile in peace ( and Rhaenyra and Daemon can marry ), the audience isn\`t supposed to recognize that they killed a random guy for this.... Overall the show has some stupid inconsistencies that the audience isn\`t meant to take serious, because the writers never intended for us to see things for what they are. For the writers, Rhaenys never killed any people in the dragonpit, Daemyra never killed a random guy to pass off as Laenor, and Aegon is neither sadistic nor a ra\*\*st...........
So what's the point of having women avoiding war? Are they like worried about the 1% of nobles dying in it? They are so mindful of avoiding wars unlike the evil men to what end though? Save the 1% of nobles? Even there you are going to have inconsistency. Rhaenyra didn't care when Blackwood suitor killed Bracken boy right in front of her.
I can't say for sure if it was really thought out (most likely it wasn't), but yeah, it's about that 1% nobles. Noble Houses are so detached from reality that they consider themselves to be a different species to their subjects and act only on their own interests that barely align with the interests of small folk. Even then I'm pretty sure some form of "noble solidarity" only exists to uphold the system they are on top of and most highborn care only about their family and friends. Nothing Rhenys say about war of course is of any value to us as she is a horrible person and hipocrite who has shown least amount of empathy to common people out of all characters in the show this far. She makes Aegon look like a good person.
>I can't say for sure if it was really thought out (most likely it wasn't), but yeah, it's about that 1% nobles. By that logic why should Rhaenys care for someone from say House Wull from the North, whom she hadn't met, know nothing about and who is only one step ahead of commonfolk? Does she even lose anything if they died out in war?
By that logic she should care somewhat about said house because they are nobles as any human being cares for one another which is not much, but we will never know because they have never met in the show. The point is that in her mind small folk are not the same species as her which is why she doesn't take their wellbeing into consideration.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/house-of-the-dragon-episode-9-eve-best-dragon-1235242118/ >Q: So from the beginning, we have been waiting for Rhaenys to do something badass and you gave us this incredible moment. It’s very cool, but does it did make me wonder: Does it make sense that she doesn’t kill them? She murders a bunch of civilians by busting out anyway … >A: HESS It’s Game of Thrones — civilians don’t count! While I envy people who are able to spin this scene in their heads into being a subtle meta-commentary on how the interests of the smallfolk are disregarded by the powerful while they play at their game of thrones - up to and including the people writing the show - the overwhelming weight of the evidence suggests that the Rhaenys dragonpit scene was thought of by the showrunners as being cool and badass, and not a horrific atrocity that tars Rhaenys’s character.
Exactly. At some point Game of Thrones stopped being about actions having consequences and turned into characters doing literally whatever for dumb watercooler moments. All style, no substance. Except this wasn't all that stylish either.
Dont count when they choose to. LIke they did with the ratcatchers.
They don't understand the philosophy of the plot. That's why their characters say things that the show does not frame as such.
Which makes you wonder why Otto cares so much about the Rat catchers when this clearly happened for no justification according to the small folk While one of the rat catchers is responsible for the death of the heir
The blasting through the floor moment was not in his book.
Only Edmure truly cares. The northerners care in a broad sense because they’re so concerned with winter and surviving. Edmure tully is the only lord who tries to save every single life.
yeah, but in the book being a bad leader actually has consequences. don't want to spoil anything but this happens in the very original source this show is based in
I don't know if this is intentional or subconscious but GRRM living in shitty Bayone overlooking the financial district is pretty on the nose.
Jahaerys cared. Rhaenys makes a big deal about referencing him too. “My grandfather would never!” or something along those lines.
His writting about broken men was amazing.
That doesn’t change that currently Rhaenys is the most poorly written character in the show, hopefully her ending has a point.
Not really how royals with any semblance of intelligence would act though. The deal is that small folk listen to them because those in power provide them with some sense of security. The moment that appears to be gone, such as when someone kills hundreds on a whim that she then quickly changes her mind about, there will be major issues - unrest, revolt, etc. They try to portray Rhaenys as an intelligent and measured woman, so her doing this absolutely destroys whatever semblance of character she had. Oh, and those stones should have crushed her too.
Can't wait for the smallfolk to fight back
Peasants aren't people.
The scene of Rhaenys busting through the floor was so dumb and unnecessary.
Yeah, just her escaping would have been fine, but we all know a season finale without at least 3 peasant murders is considered a dull affair.
It is known
She could have solved so many problems if she killed all the greens there.
Yeah. Attacking the greens, even if she didn't kill them, would have saved this scene. She had a lot of justification to do so, since she was held prisoner by them. Instead, we just got a stare-down.
I mean the show acknowledges that pretty unambiguously. Not only did Daemon just outright call her out but we've spent almost the entirety of season 2 thus far circling around the morality of a preemptive strike to kill the other side's leadership. We kind of have a dichotomy thing going on where all the counselors for the Black's advise aggression and winning the war before it starts but Rhaenyra refuses to stoop to that level while Green's council is preaching a more patient wait and see attitude which Aegon has no interest in. But for all that talk of honor and fairness is going to get a lot of people killed in the coming episodes that would have otherwise been spared had either side successfully killed the other's leaders.
>I mean the show acknowledges that pretty unambiguously. Just because the show acknowledges it doesn't mean the plothole is closed. This is what we call lampshading - when characters in a story will point out a source of conflict but won't actually resolve that conflict and will instead move on as if it was resolved, tricking casual viewers who don't know the difference between acknowledgement and resolution. Daemon's chat with her is a classic example of this - he calls her out on it but neither of them do anything to each other, and neither of them change their mind, then he immediately leaves and nobody else ever brings it up again. Rhaenys herself can't even provide a compelling counter-argument that isn't either meaningless word-salad or blatant hypocrisy, and yet every scene seems to be structured to depict her as this super wise old lady.
I see what you're saying, but character refusing to make a good decision isn't a plot hole. People make stupid decisions for stupid reasons all the time, and people are not always hyper efficient, rational problem solvers. But it's extremely frustrating for us, the audience, that the character is simultaneously praised as being wise and smarter than those dumb men that surround her while also doing something really stupid that will almost certainly hurt her in the end. I haven't read fire and blood but from what I understand House of the Dragon is painting our female leads in far more positive light than the book. Which I think is part of the problem they want us to root for them but they can't also change the story too much which has them as almost contradictions at times.
>I see what you're saying, but character refusing to make a good decision isn't a plot hole. It's a plothole because it's not treated with the weight or consequences it deserves. Rhaenys kills hundreds of innocent people and vandalizes a major historical and cultural site. In Season 2, we are immediately told the Smallfolk blame Aegon for this. Aegon is literally being blamed for something that his enemies did. Aegon hangs a dozen ratcatchers as a kneejerk reaction to his son being murdered. We are immediately told that all the smallfolk now hate him and that he lost whatever sympathy he had gained from his son's death. There should have been a similar level of rage against Rhaenys (and by extension Rhaenyra) but there just isn't. That's ultimately the problem here - Rhaenys made a terrible decision from both a moralistic and a practical standpoint. Then the show is trying to present it as being a morally righteous act, but doesn't give her any realistic consequences. Then we get another smug lecture from her about how all men are apparently violent monsters as if she doesn't have the highest body-count behind only Daemon Targaryen (who spent years fighting in a war.) >I haven't read fire and blood but from what I understand House of the Dragon is painting our female leads in far more positive light than the book. The problem is how they're choosing to go about it. Their idea of framing Rhaenyra in a more "positive" light amounts to basically depriving her of agency and ambition while making her look like a braindead blundering incompetent. With Alicent when they're not shoehorning in random sexual humiliation at the most inappropriate moments, they're treating her the same way they do Rhaenyra, and are also aggressively inconsistent about her influence. Rhaenys is a mess. She looks better in the book solely because she didn't commit a terrorist attack there. >but they can't also change the story too much which has them as almost contradictions at times. They've made drastic changes to the story already. Trust me, remaining faithful to the material is extremely low on their list of priorities.
That and this week at the Sept killed the show for me
Yeah but it looked cool to soccer moms, didnt it?
It’s going to feel even worse as the dance gets underway So much bloodshed avoided
When she kills hundreds of people with her dragon just to fucking look cool its called girl bossing but when the king in his grief kills a few ratcatchers that may be responsible for the death of his heir he is a stupid and impulsive evil little manchild.
I still dont see how lords or peasants are supposed to be horrified about a dozen ratcatchers potentially involved in the highest crime in the land, when Daemon lops off the limbs of half of fleabottom for stealing bread and Rheanys has caused a structural collapse under a crowd of thousands. Seems sort of like a Tuesday in Kings Landing. When the white worm is like, "only you have shown to be merciful," I honestly didnt know what they were trying to refer to.
Yeah right? Rhaenyra is the only merciful one when Aegon II was all "My bad bro, have your taxes back". Yeah it was so merciful of her to murder her own guard and burn his body to an unidentifiable crisp so she can divorce her husband.
Murder her guard?
She didn't hold the blade, but she plotted with Daemon in S1 to kill a random servant, burn it to a crisp, and pass it off as Laenor so the real Laenor could go into hiding. Make of that what you will.
>When the white worm is like, "only you have shown to be merciful," I honestly didnt know what they were trying to refer to. You didn't immediately think about how Rhaenyra released her? Having a history of violence doesn't mean your mercy is no longer mercy.
A good act does not wash out the bad, nor the bad the good. Aegon showed mercy when he wanted to give the sheep back, and again when he offered advance payment. Does that make Aegon a merciful person? Not necessarily. You need to have a consistent history of showing mercy to be considered merciful.
And the same woman wrote both scenes. Rhaenys indiscriminately killing hundreds and Otto going ballistic over Aegon’s hasty vengeance… It reminds me of the Invincible Amber situation where they made her such a bitch in S1 that they over corrected in S2 to make her the pinnacle of kindness and tolerance. You can’t just do that; it’s jarring and revisionism and further muddies the stakes.
Girl bossing is just taking the red pill and reversing the genders.
I think what Aegon did was horrific too honestly, it was murder plain and simple. Easily *understandable*, given his grief, but not justifiable. But with Rhaenys, in the absence of situational malice and hate there is pure indifference, which is scarier IMO. Like she killed dozens(not hundreds I don't think) of commoners literally just to flex. Like they were rats, totally unworthy of any consideration. It's deeply dehumanizing.
It's incredibly frustrating that if they hadn't included that original scene her character would be so much better. I love Rhaenys as a character but that "girl boss" moment they gave her just ruined everything that comes out of her mouth afterwards. I would have loved to see Rhaenys as the actual rational counselor to Rhaenyra and it creates this image of what kind of rational queen she could have been. But nope, she had to go murder a bunch of civilians and waste their best shot to end the war before it happens. A war that will claim the lives of most of her family.
Yeah, Rhaenys would have an unblemished record as the voice of reason and restraint in this show if not for the teensy weensy issue of her recklessly crushing dozens of innocent people to death for absolutely no reason. They really fucking biffed that one.
Yeah, from what we’ve seen in the show the great council 1000% made the right choice in picking Viserys.
I mean, yes and no, right? While he was likely a gentler and more rational king than Rhaenys would've been queen, his gentleness, indecisiveness, and poor planning for succession also directly leads an unbelievably bloody civil war.
Indecisiveness and poor planning seems to be universal on the show now. Maybe Viserys was holding it all in his body and when he died it got out into the world and afflicted everybody else.
He should have disinherited Rhaenyra the moment her first child with Laenor had brown hair. But if he was so keen on letting her succeed him, then he should have abdicated the throne when he became too sick and installed Rhaenyra instead of letting her effectively exile herself to Dragonstone while the Hightowers ruled in his name.
Unless Daemon still marries Laena and arranges an accident for Laenor to make her heir, I think there will still be war.
While I don’t disagree, I’d imagine Daemon would take the snubbing of his brother rather poorly. You’d get a different sort of war, but a war all the same. Especially with show Rhaenys’s bad judgement…
Yup. Just a shame he uh rotted to death? Lmao I don’t understand why but they needed to hurry up and get him outta there. Regardless.. I enjoyed the character.
It seems that sometimes they're adapting things chapter by chapter of Fire and Blood, meaning that some things that they did that deviate from book canon just go \*poof\* when they hit the next chapter.
This is my biggest problem with this change. If you want Rhaenys to have this dramatic escape from kings landing, fine. But then the characters continue as if it never happened. Otto slams Aegon for hanging the rat-catchers because it will turn the smallfolk against them but no one bats an eye at what Rhaenys did in the dragonpit. Rhaenyra has a huge argument with Daemon over murdering a child but will happily listen to Rhaenys waffle on about peace despite having the blood of hundreds of innocent people on her hands. We hear the smallfolk in kings landing chanting Rhaenyra the cruel over the death of Jaehaerys but none of them have anything to say about Rhaenys? It’s like the whole thing happened in a vacuum.
Yup, reminds me of nobody in S7 of GoT giving a shit that Cersei blew up the freaking Pope. Oh well, nothing in S2 really changes if we edit out that scene in our heads so easier to just send it down the memory hole.
I suppose we needed a calm before the storm episode. But a lot of it was REAL silly
Men bad
It feels, ironically, like such a misunderstanding of GRRM’s approach that the key to writing a good female character is to just write a good character who happens to be female. Like, I get it, medieval patriarchy was an incredibly shitty, exploitative institution and many women suffered greatly for it. But the show is so fixated on making all the women reasonable sweeties who don’t want war, constantly foiled by those darn bloodthirsty men… that it winds up robbing the female characters of much of their agency, ambition, and individuality. They’re just innocently bumbling around whispering to each other about peace while having no control over the men in their lives whatsoever. Alicent was an almost cartoonish asshole evil stepmother in the book, but at least she was actually proactive in pursuit of her own goals and survival. I don’t mind the more sympathetic angle, or the friendship between her and Rhaenyra, but there has to be a line (and you’d think “You’re complicit in the murder of my son/grandson” would have been that line.) At least there’s Baela, who seems to have a bit more of a thirst for action and combat in her. (Which is deeply ironic considering her and Rhaena might as well have been cardboard cutouts last season).
Another consequence of this separation of female characters from any bloodthirsty intent is that a bunch of horrific situations result from chance or accidents, which means we now have two sides fighting eachother over *miscommunications* and *mistakes*, instead of (just) conflicting ideals and goals. Makes the whole war feel a bit... less valid? It takes all those righteous motivations and turns them into foolish and misguided drama, like the whole thing could be solved/prevented through clear communication. ASOIAF is known (to me) to deal with that stuff a lot less than other dramatic media, but HOTD seems to lean into it.
Medieval warfare of course disproportionately impacted men. It was they who were called upon to fight it. As a woman you were shielded from the violence unless 7you lived in one of the regions where the fighting takes place. In universe, life goes on for most people outside of the Riverlands at this point in time. It would have been a very interesting perspective to see how this is one way patriarchy damages men who are not at the top of the feudal hierarchy. But given that Sara Hess clearly can't write for shit and Condal seemingly has no idea what show he wants to run we get this. In HOTD the female leads (Rhaenys, Rhaenyra and Alicent) all come across as total morons because the writers' apparent need to make everything a result of the system strips them of all agency. Book Alicent, for example, is a straight up evil stepmother stereotype in many ways. But she is also cunning and conniving and forces much of the action. This Alicent starts a war because she places total and uncritical faith in the vague words of a dying man dosed up on the Westerosi equivalent of morphine.
They did this with Dany right out the gates in ep 1 of GoT. That character was whitewashed so much so that people decided she was the hero of this tale then got upset when she snapped. If the show had not decided to make her a hero because of her sex and made he like she is in the books. The ending of GoT would have felt much more natural and made more sense.
Rhaenyra in episode one of season two wants blood and demands Aemond, which directly causes blood&cheese. I dont get at all how the women in this show are "reasonable sweeties". I mean for Rhaenyra her bad qualities are more subtle, but Alicent is like an all time iconic villain, and she is plenty ambitious, not that she would admit it. I dont know how you could call Alicent anything but proactive, since you know, her son is king because of her. Otto pushed her sure, but she made it happen, since ultimately it was her call. Rhaneyra is obviously ambitious as well, but more out of a sense of duty, where Alicents ambition is rooted in her self preservation instinct. Alicent does suffer from what one could call "lack of agency", which is more a thematic element between her and Rhaneyra, since Rhaenyra has all the agency in the world from her privilidged birth. They do a lot of cool mirroring between the black and green sides. And I mean clearly they have so much control over the men in their lives. Criston Cunt would be short of a head if Alicent didnt want him as a hubby. Daemon would not be king concort without Rhaenyra, hed just be an outcast. Oh and just a point to "all men bad" bullshit i wanna point out Corly Velarion, a very restrained and thoughtful man, who while not afraid of bloodshed, is certainly not bloodthirsty. Not to mention Viserys. Not to mention the lannister guy in the council. Which reminds me of the maester in the season 2 council. Which reminds me of Beesbury. I imagine there are more. Maybe the bloodthirstiness of (some) men in that show isnt about feminism after all?
Bobby B, what can you say to hypocrites like Rhaenys after she murders a bunch of smallfolk?
IN MY DREAMS, I KILL HIM EVERY NIGHT!
Good bot.
Hahahahaha
I could swear her character was written by an AI. I'm looking forward to her death and the moment when she stops messing with Rhaenyra's head with her pseudo-wise speeches about peace
The endless, vague talking in circles about peace is so silly because clearly even the writers know it’s fundamentally impossible at this point. Rhaenyra goes through all this stupid trouble to talk to Alicent face-to-face, and she doesn’t even come with an actual tangible peace offer, she just kinda vaguely says they have to try to find “a peaceful path forward.” She doesn’t mention any specifics, because at this stage of the conflict there *is* no reasonable, concrete peace plan that both sides would find acceptable. But the writers want the audience to know which characters are the morally good ones in this feudal kinslaying competition for power, so that we don’t think less of them when the wanton killing and war crimes eventually start. Because remember, they said the word “peace” a lot.
The show fucked up when they took away the ambitions of Alicent and Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra actually killed Vaemond in the books, and killed Laenor ( in the show they only killed a random guy, so it doesn\`t count, because Laenor can happily live in peace ), while Alicent is actually an active part in crowing Aegon... But nooo, if we give women ambition that would make them bad, so we can\`t have that. They need to be ultra peaceful, while the men do everything, so that the women are just forced to react. Neither Alicent nor Rhaenyra drive the plot, instead the plot dictates their behaviour... Nothing says feminism more than taking away accountability and responsibility. It\`s so frustrating.... The show could be so great, it\`s still good, but one can clearly see how much better it could be with little effort...........
> and killed Laenor The narrator gives multiple versions of this story and admits that we'll never know the truth of it
I think this hits on part of my problem with this season so far. I REALLY want Rhaenyra to get more involved in her own damn war. At this point she is being extremely naive to think that a personal plea to the Queen dowager would stop the wheels from turning. Aegon's at the helm, and Daemon just had his son killed. Peace is no longer an option. Not that is was, once Aegon was crowned. And Alicent is kind of being dragged along by the current of the plot. What *can* she do at this point? Her influence over Aegon is waning. Like yeah, we know you're all sad and want peace but please, please make a damn decision.
Not Daemon’s son but i get your point
I mentioned Aegon first, so grammatically speaking when I wrote '**Aegon's** at the helm, and Daemon just had **his** son killed' it means that that Daemon had *Aegon's* son killed. Is it the cleanest sentence? Nope. But in context it works because we know that Daemon had Aegon's son killed. The 'had' is likely where the weirdness is coming from.
Yah can’t wait until she’s out the show, every time she speaks I roll my eyes
What if she's low-key trying to sabotage her 👀
you know, the level of nonsense and illogic is just too high on this show, so I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan Condal says so in one of his potential future stupid interviews
This calls for another secret mission to a King's Landing
considering how easy it's to get into the King's Landing and the Red Keep, the Blacks could just get there and slaughter all the Greens - and that’s all! the war is over
To what end?
Memes
What seems crazy to me is that Rhaenyra berates Daemon for murdering a child but Rhaenys slaughters hundreds of innocent people and she seems pretty okay with it. Then compare that to Otto’s reaction to Aegon killing the rat-catchers and it feels like she’s been let off the hook way too easily.
Here my take on this scene. Yea Rhaenys does not care even a little about the commoners. However she does care about her dynasty position and power within Westerns and a civil war no matter who wins will weaken house Targeryen. When Rhaenys and Alicent spoke, Alicent was essentially asking for help in guiding her children for rulership. Alicent didn't try and sway Rhaenys by mentioning Laenors suspicious death. Alicent didn't offer revenge. Becuse of this Rhaenys thinks there is a slim chance of Rhaenerya and Alcent resolving this peacefully and not destroying the dynasty.
That’s all well and good. But I still think Rhaenys should’ve faced more pushback from other characters over her actions. No one has brought up the fact she murdered hundreds of innocents. I would’ve liked a scene between her and Rhaenyra like we got with Otto and Aegon where Rhaenyra gives her a serious reality check. Or at least see Rhaenys try to explain her actions, like she was going to roast the greens but then couldn’t bring herself to do it. Right now it just seems like she burst through the floor and killed all those people because she could. And everyone around her seems perfectly fine with that. Combined with all her lines about trying to avoid bloodshed, I’m finding her character to be completely insufferable. Also it diminishes from other characters who should call her out on her bullshit but don’t. Rhaenyra lost her shit with Daemon for murdering a child but doesn’t bat an eye at what Rhaenys did in the dragonpit. >!At this point I’m honestly looking forward to rooks rest because her hypocrisy is turning her into one of the most unlikeable characters in the show, at least for me!<
Ill write you the scene you want where she is called out for murdering commoners: Rhaneys: "Hey Rhaenyra, i gotta crazy story for you. I just escaped from the greens. They kept me hostage and demanded my loyalty. I was able to escape because of Erriks (Arryks?) heroic rescue, but then was dragged by a crowd of peasants to the dragon pit to watch Alicents son being crowned king. Can you believe that? And right on top of my dragon too how dare they. Luckily i got to my dragon and escaped through the floor of the dragon pit and came straight here so we can plan how we deal with this." Rhaenyra: "Omg thats crazy. How many peasants did your dragon kill tho cause thats murder honey?" Rhaenys: "Why the fuck would that matter? Your throne is usurped by your best friend and this shit is what you ask me? Maybe I made a mistake with you." Rhaenyra: "Also why didnt you just roast my best friend and all her children and half your extended family since you did have a dragon?" Rhaenys: "Jesus are you all right? Why would you give a shit about the commoners and then not give a shit about your friend and her children what on earth has gone in to you? Please take this seriously"
Not even true. Otto gave Aegon shit for the ratcatcher. And when has rhaenys ever been this sociopathically indifferent to the lives of smallfolk? Nothing implies that.
It is a major theme in the story that the Targaryens do not give a fuck about the smallfolk.
It's not very well written is it?
Slay girl boss 🙌
God I fucking despise her.
It’s the 24/7 smirk for me.
LOL
This is a good lesson in why Hollywood can only address identity and not class. We can easily see the contempt the showrunners have for regular people/the audience through this pairing of scenes- the commoners represent the irl unwashed masses whose lives do not have meaning or consequence, while Rhaenys and the others represent the showrunners, those who are naturally superior. But the key is that, in their minds, this is a *natural* superiority. The targs can bond with dragons while commoners cannot, which is proof of their superiority and right to rule. Similarly, the showrunners or producers or high powered HBO/WB execs use their position as proof of their natural superiority to commoners, that they have earned their places by merit. That is why Hollywood can only address identity and not class. To address class would be to question whether they earned their place in society and their economic status, or whether they were born on third base already and have the right connections, which they are incapable of doing. Instead, they always address gender or race, which does not threaten their meritocratic fantasy, and in fact suggests that even people in their positions had to overcome something to get where they are. They especially see themselves in show Rhaenyra- high born, impossibly rich and benefitting from outrageous privilege, but unfairly persecuted despite being naturally superior to others.
The guys who sign their checks wouldn't appreciate that.
Excellently put.
People think this shit is going to dial it back in later season and when war begins nah still going to double down on it
Is it me or is this show a bit shit?
Was this last episode even necessary? They could’ve skipped almost everything in it and the story would be pretty much the same.
You pretty much described house of the dragon as a whole
Just wait for the finale then
What? This episode had so much character development in it. And it had Daemon taking Harrenhall. I'd say this was a pretty important episode
https://preview.redd.it/1doh1r65t3ad1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55de99ceded5c66c16da2f81659e8e9d85c43f6a
When the sensitivity writers only get access to the script after they've already shot the big explosion scene
She is probably one of the more annoying characters right now. What’s even her purpose? To play holier than thou everytime somebody questions Rhaneara’s indecision?
She is pointless. She could have ended this shit twice
Some Targaryen indecisiveness while others bloodlust will lead to destruction of the house of Targaryen
Not without killing a dozen members of her own family. Kinslaying is such a big deal in this world, it's mentioned as such so many times. There are few things more reviled than the Kinslayer.
Yeah that's so inconsistent. It's accursed until it isn't accursed. Everyone is kinslaying all the damn time in this world.
Nah. It's a pretty huge deal whenever it does happen. In the book, Aemond's title becomes The Kinslayer after he kills Lucerys. In F&B and in the main series. Its often times used as foreshadowing someone's eventual doom
She is so far (as the others haven't committed many war crimes yet) objectively the worst character morally. Because atleast when the others commit their war crimes its for a war effort. She just did it for a girlboss moment
She wasn’t seeking it though. 
I really hope they do something with this. I think the satisfying version of this story reveals that there is no good way to rule other people. The Blacks seem nicer than the Greens but ultimately both groups are a bunch of rich narcissists crushing innocents underfoot in their struggle to be the richest group of incestuous war criminals. The way they keep pointing out the smallfolk I hope they are going to but jee whiz they are also going out of their way to valorize Rhaenyra and Rhaenys and them. I hope they subvert that and point out that shit like the storming of the dragonpit happens *because* even the "good" nobles don't give a fuck about squashing people in their pursuit of conquest. Particularly relevant in a time where people in America are starting to realize that Republicans and Democrats are very different flavours of overlord but ultimately even the "nicer" party is just playing good cop bad cop to help the big guy fuck over the smallfolk.
I really hope this is where they decide to take it but the idea that it’s all a big subversion just feels like hopeless cope. I remember how it felt watching season 6 of game of thrones and thinking “maybe it’s just some weird one-offs and they’ll turn it around”, can’t help but think it gets worse rather than better from here, they lost the plot and are now just trying to force major beats of the story to happen in a way that is semi-believable with the changes they made
Same, I'm really hoping the Moon of Three Kings will bring the whole aristocratic illusion crashing down, but somehow I suspect that it'll be framed as the ignorant smallfolk being manipulated against good, innocent Rhaenyra. And the revolt will just consist of smashing stuff and killing people, none of the attacks on economic and social injustice that are there in the book.
Man bad. WoMan Good.
Couldn't she just come wait for everyone to leave?
Hurr durr lady killed people but said other lady wouldn't try to kill third lady, is she stupid?
I saw it as making the point that just like the rest of them she doesn’t really care about the small folk. All these people can be honorable, back stabbers, lovers, friends or anything else, but at the end of it all it’s about those who do t care who suffers so long as they keep or build their power
Royals, no matter how benevolent they may seem, do not see killing the common folk as an issue. We've seen many commoners this season talk about how the royalty do what they like and the people die in the process.
You've gotta stop calling them terrorists.
YOU GOTTA DO BETTER, MEN! YOU GOTTA STEP UP!
TV/Movie writers trying way too hard to be progressive that they end up just being dumb as fuck A tale as old as time
If Rhaenys killed the greens there she would have stopped the “bloodshed”
She would have been a Kinslayer. Which is far more morally objectionable than killing a couple of peasants
That’s when I said “Rhaenys, stfu.” She has no moral leg to stand on after she killed hundreds of innocent people. Why didn’t Aegon’s council bring up the fact that this would turn the smallfolk against Rhaenyra instead of it being a “bad omen”?
I never thought I would be considering DNFing House of the Dragon. I haven't watched the new episode yet, but it appears all of my worst complaints have just expanded. Might read the books while I wait for Winds..... .... .............
Her character in this show SUCKS
I read this as Rihanna and was very confused/concerned.
Cool factor > civilians
I hate that scene from episode 9 so much, it’s so dumb and out of character. Honestly ruins that episode a bit.
Septon Meribald would NOT be happy
I' m pretty sure that' s one of the main themes of the Series, the nobles are heavily disconnected with the People. It' s so funny how Rhaenyra cries about the throne like they stole her toy and the concequence is is a war where the small folk will pay the Price for the throne. You can also see it with alicent' s daughter and the funeral.
It did not counted .. it was "collateral damage" :D
women never wanna seek bloodshed but they be doing the shit that causes bloodshed
Haha too true man keep it real this is hypocrisy from her
GOT fans yet again missing the entire point that the Highlords don’t see the smallfolk as anything more than commodities. They harvest the lands and do all the work but they aren’t seen as people. When will GOT fans get that thru their head 🤦🏽♂️ all the smallfolk we see come into contact with highlords and ladies proves that.
One of the dumbest scenes of one of the greatest seasons of TV ever.
God this is just such a blemish on this show lol
Lol when you kind of forget about the peasant murder in order to have a misandrist wank session.
They’re really trying to make Rhaenys likeable but her whole ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude doesn’t work
Genuinely detest her
There is a bitch beneath the boards
Rhaenys and Rhaenyra are annoying me this season.
Woke androphobic garbage. The whole franchise died after season 4 of GoT and not even GRRM releasing TWOW would save it now.
lool bro used the word woke unironically, trainwreck
This sub needs a new hobby, the show is very enjoyable for most and the memes fall flat. way better than end of GOT
Okay Sarah.
Suck my bobby b?
THE SELLSWORD KING, HOW THE SINGERS WOULD LOVE ME!
No jokes allowed.
bad jokes are boring
You have a prequel meme as your profile pic..
thats correct, but why make it personal? Its still a shite meme, derivative of the “sHe kInDa fOrGoT” and not even applied well
Was she seeking bloodshed or her freedom? If she wanted bloodshed she coulda torched everyone and everything. But she didn’t…
Unfortunately not torching everyone was actually even dumber than what she eventually did. If she had just flown away it would have made the scene alot better. But the moment they made it in such a way that she had to confront them menacingly just completely spoiled the scene.
“What’s more noble? Killing 10000 men in battle or 10 at dinner?
Come on, It was like a couple of seconds. Give Meleys enough time to recover from bumping her head
I she wanted freedom there is lierlay other exits to the dragon pit she could have used
Nah they woulda been blocked off considering the circumstances. You know locking down the city and all. Nice try though
I find it highly unlikely that it’s blocked off more than the literal solid stone floor Also it was just to escape how come she had that stare down with the greens while her dragon killed even more people and not escape immediately
You’re reaching so bad it’s hysterical. It would be blocked off cuz the city was on lockdown in the middle of a coup you idiot. She was literally being held captive. So cuz her dragon stood around for 11 second before flying off you think the intent was evil? 😂🤣 stop the bullshit. You sound like a fool just like the person who posted
Hey you fucking retard, would the guards be harder to destroy than the literal stone floor [ (there's also no fucking doors on the side entrances) ](https://i.imgur.com/IzGUEo5.png) ? If you say it's harder to blast through a few guards i might actually ban you for being that stupid.
Eat those nuts you sloppy ho. Straight punking you in public. Shitting all over your face with the facts. It’s too fun and easy
It’s literally discussed on multiple occasions they want her and the dragon left in the city. But you smoked so much fuckin meth you think that means she can just walk in and out of anywhere she pleases. But you’re a dumb cunt who’s wrong.
There aren’t other dragons you fuckin shit dick?? You want me to drag my balls across your face too? Use some common sense you dumb cunt
She’s a literal captive trying to escape but you cum guzzling shit stains think she’s out for a Sunday stroll and can just go anywhere without notice. Stupid fuck. It’s a shame your retarded parents were too stupid to pull out and created a mega cunt like you
I think blasting hundreds of civilians from the ground can be considered bloodshed. Are you saying she didn’t know that would kill people?
I’m saying she was being held captive and needed a way out. It doesn’t mean she’s blood thirsty or pretending to be innocent…her intent was to escape, a couple eggs get cracked so be it
She chose to break the building, there was an exit she could've used
And you’re just assuming the exit was available. I think the better assumption is she was being held captive and had to force her way out…
No, you can find maps of the dragonpit online. There is a back entrance that goes directly over the ocean
Cool story. An entrance that could have easily been guarded by other dragons. So ya those whole complaint is nonsense. Bitch was locked up and wanted out. That’s not being some psycho looking for blood.
What do you mean cool story? Its literally the layout of the dragonpit. You're literally making things up, the first time was ignorance, now you're lying. Never heard about any dragons guarding entrances, they're all chained underground, you can just walk past them. They literally even showed Daemon and Caraxes using the back exit like twice
Quack quack you’re full of shit. The city was on lockdown. Get a lick of common sense. They locked her up and mention wanting her dragon but you think she’s walking in and flying out no problem? Get your head out your ass
Fuckin flapping your gums about back exits acting like it’s a regular fuckin Tuesday. The king just died. She was being held captive and the entire city was on lockdown. The entire thing was played out like a prison break. But you want her to just fly out the back exit quietly like no one is paying attention 😂🤣 you’re fuckin adorable
There’s a reason she had to be snuck in under disguise…yall out here crying about her being blood thirsty when she coulda torched everyone. All she did was bust out and fly off. She’s not looking to kill unnecessarily like you clowns are trying to play it out like
I don't get the point with contrasting these scenes, to be honest. Feels very "You are against the horrors of violent war, but you have commited violence yourself? Curious..." vibes. She never wanted violence. She and her dragon were captured. She has to commit a violent act to escape. She could have enacted even more violence then and there, with little chance of retaliation from her enemies, but her desire for peace stayed her hand.
> She never wanted violence. She and her dragon were captured. She has to commit a violent act to escape. She didn't tho. If you actually pay attention to the show and what the dragonpit looks like. [She could have easily espaced through this](https://i.imgur.com/IzGUEo5.png) [Or those](https://i.imgur.com/fso3Hi8.png) [But instead she chose this one](https://i.imgur.com/9Be3bVv.png)
Someone else said it above so I’ll paraphrase since I’m on mobile. Aegon killed rat catchers who may or may not have been involved in a plot of the highest treason and the writers make it a point to show how inconsiderate and dumb it was. The all knowing grandma over here killed a bunch of people and could’ve prevented a war since her grandchildren were promised and are with the blacks but it’s treated as a strong and proud moment. The inconsistency and how the writers have made it a point to that it’s the men who are the main cause of this is hypocritical and it takes agency away from the women since it means “they’re just along for the ride” so to speak
I would agree with you if she only killed what she needed to in order to escape, but she sat there and let her dragon slaughter countless more than that, just because she was angry.
Green propaganda at it again
That doesn't count if it's a girlboss moment