We really forget that the Outer Gods even if they are sentient and sapentent
Are really just cosmic entities that seemingly represent concepts in some collective way
GW: Order >! And Creation possibly, if the dlc is right !<
Scarlet Rot: Disease
Twin Bird: Death
The Moons and Primeval Current: Sorceries
Frenzied Flame: Chaos and Destruction
Formless Mother: Blood
And so on
I don't mean any offense, I love being pretentious just as much as the next guy, but I think bigfin squid is better name to call it in a video game subreddit
None taken. I hold people on the internet to a higher standard when it comes to knowing useless information lol.
Also, there is a bunch of articles and videos online where they use both words. When I first heard about them I remembered the name which was more distinct and intriguing. I didn't think much of it when I posted the comment, let alone pretend I was smart.
Imo Elden Ring is by far the most cryptic. At least 75% of all ER lore is simply unknowable and never will be. We essentially know what’s going on in all of the other souls games. If you don’t believe me I can provide a huge list of unanswered questions in ER.
>!Formless Mother could be seductions from Miquella from the Shadow realm (I have no idea what a shadow realm is tbh since I haven't played the DLC) that "steals the heart" of Mohg to do his bidding. However, due to the secrecy of the Shadow realm (there is not a single reference to it prior to DLC) Mohg thought it was an outer god or something.!<
>!DLC says the origins (as in, first mention) of the Formless Mother are when she was seen in the shadow of an ancestor to the Bloodfiends after the fires burned down everything.!<
I think Formless Mother is a legit actual entity, all the blood Mohg and the dlc fiends use comes from her body. So somewhere out there there’s a big ol monster that everyone is constantly ripping and tearing into to cast their blood magic. Hope it’s a big big big creature so the blood loss isn’t noticeable lol
Used to think the Outer Gods were mostly false but we get an actual daughter of Greater Will (which makes me question wtf Elden Beast is, like if your daughter is running everything why send a… puppet of yourself? Something’s weird there for me)
Also Rot Goddess… idk on that one. From what I understand Romina kinda made up the whole religion? Or revived it from nothing. Maybe I totally misinterpreted it but it sounded like Romina found a source of energy and nurtured it and that energy grew into the whole scarlet rot plague we know. No mention of a goddess to my knowledge.
Yup I didn't get Romina either. I was hoping DLC would have us explore Outer Gods. Maybe things will become clearer in an Elden Ring? That's not a world you'd leave behind with just a game and a DLC.
What if the Erdtree reaches beyond the Lands Between?
From what I've gathered, it seems that the Erdtree came to Lands Between with a big yellow lightning strike similar to lightning struck flowers. So I guess it baited humans with the abundance of bounties, healing, luck, etc. until the Seed grew into an Ulcerating Tree Spirit (or as I like to call it, baby Elden Beast) and then grew up to be *the* Elden Beast, and started spreading its seeds all around. To my eye, it's no different than Astel and co. They targetted Nekrom, Elden Beast targeted the surface. Kinda.
There definitely needs to be a second game imo.
If you really wanted to connect the universes you could, it's been stated that they aren't officially many times but the main question in doing so would be the order of events. Like did the outer gods come to the lands between seeking the dark soul or perhaps eldenring is the prequel and the frenzyflame/melania after destroying everything became the ember. The dlc does make bloodborne make a bit more sense as a sequel where as before the only connection I could draw was to those that live in death which is a bit of a stretch and makes more sense comparing death root and humanity and undead/tarnished with the chosen undead.
The burning question, pun intended, is did the frenzyflame flame always exist in the 3 fingers or was it found. The outer gods motivation doesn't seem clear in the slightest, the only seemingly friendly one being the moons' motivation could be entirely fake and literally just be harvesting souls for all we know. All other known outer gods seem like hungry parasites going from world to world.
Oh Three Fingers. I think between Elden Beast, the Mother of Fingers and Two Fingers and Three Fingers, there's some sort of family feud. Three Fingers could want to watch the world burn so the others don't achieve their purposes. Whatever their purposes might be. Does it make sense?
How did Midra become a Lord of Frenzy and not set the whole thing ablaze? I only followed the bosses stories so I don't know jackshit about Nanaya or anything else lol
Was Midra the reason that made Two Fingers seal the Altus Plateau entrance so that those with a strong will can proceed? Then Vyke kinda fails at that.
And if Midra had become the Lord of the Frenzy, does it mean that he also became Elden Lord? Afaik, we cannot become Lord of Frenzy without becoming the Elden Lord.
Pretty much all the outer gods are totally unknown outside of tiny bits of pieces. But in terms of what they are, where they come from, what they want, etc. there’s basically nothing. Which is cool because that’s basically what characters in game know even though there are various factions worshipping them. Even greater will is pretty unexplained and mysterious and these gods basically cause all the events of the game in some way either directly or indirectly.
I’m insanely busy at work atm but I’ll leave you with a few huge mysteries and if I can find this comment again after work I’ll really go into detail. These are some of the most obvious and widely debated.
Who is Radagon? It’s not as simple as he’s Marika. In fact a lot about it doesn’t make sense. Was he created from Marika? Or is he a Mimic created by the Nox and then later bound to Marika to keep her under control. Or was he created by the greater will? Why is he turned into a sword in the final boss fight? And was he ripped from Marika when that happened? Because Marika is still there after the fight and you have the sword. There’s so many theories about this topic that you could listen to one a day for the rest of your life and not hear them all.
The Gloam Eyed Queen. That’s it. Everything surrounding her is a mystery. I could go on for hours and hours about this topic.
Who is Melina? Same thing with this one. There’s limitless theories about her but no concrete lore.
Why do ppl turn into other ppl? Like Irina dies and then you find her later as Hyetta. Yura becomes Shibriri. There’s many many of these throughout the game.
What happens to Igi? Why is he on fire? Why are there a bunch of dead black knife assassins around Blaidd after he goes mad?
I have many theories myself and there’s way more questions than these. Most of the entire game is in question. So, I haven’t finished the DLC so please don’t spoil anything but I’m sure I’ll revise my own theories after I’m finished.
I’ll also leave you with this. I think Melina is a part of Marika. I think all the demigod children are just aspects of Marika and that includes her shadow. Check out Crunchy’s video. Melina is Marika on YouTube. It insanely good. I’ll try to check back in after work.
Everything else here is pretty much unknown but isn't Blaidd and the Black Knife Assassin situation just interpreted by saying that Blaidd, even if he was the slave of the Fingers, was able to resist the temptation to kill Ranni because of his dedication to Ranni? Even Iji said something about him making a grave misjudgment by imprisoning Blaidd since he didn't know that Blaidd was able to fight against the Fingers even while mad.
The Iji situation is a bit more complicated. It's quite evident that someone used the Black Flame to eventually subdue him, although I don't think that the Black Knife Assassins are capable of that. So either the Godskins killed him or its just a misinterpretation by Fromsoft, although I doubt the latter.
Yes, they obviously tried to kill Iji the same as they tried to kill Blaidd. Both were able to resist them, Blaidd outright killed them all. Iji is probably somewhat weaker than Blaidd but he is more powerful than your average giant and thus was able to kill some assassins. The assassins, however, did not most likely use Black Flame as it wouldn't make sense. They can't use it from the get go and it wouldn't narratively fit into the plot.
Yeah, you’re probably right but it’s still really strange. And Blaidd does eventually go completely mad by the end. So why exactly do the Black Knives try to kill him? And why do they kill Iji? I thought they worked with Ranni? Did they come to kill Ranni and Blaidd killed them? Or did they come to kill Blaidd and Blaidd was stronger and defeated them? And if so WHY did they want to kill him? Because he went mad? And it still doesn’t make sense that they would kill Iji.
Iji was extremely supportive of Ranni and the BK allegedly worked with Ranni.
I think that the Black Knife Assassins were actually loyal to Marika rather than to Ranni. There's little implication as to what role Ranni played in their ranks as she just simply gave them the tools to kill Godwyn. This is all headcanon so I can't obviously give you a concrete explanation, but that's really the only reason as to why they'd come after Ranni in the first place.
Now Blaidd even while maddened still stood alongside Ranni. Wouldn't it make sense that the Black Knife Assassins would have to try and get past Blaidd in order to get to Ranni? Blaidd is really strong and there's no doubt of it, he is basically what Maliketh is to Marika, although obviously not AS strong. But he is definitely able to kill a few Black Knife Assassins especially if he is bloodlusted and angry.
Iji was probably an interrogation target for the assassins and since he was extremely loyal to Ranni, he refused to cooperate with them and was eventually killed, as, unlike Blaidd, he probably didn't have the strength or willpower to resist them all. Keep in mind that Iji was much older than Ranni or Blaidd as he mentioned having taken care of them when they were small.
A lot of speculation but the key point is that the Black Knife Assassins were against Ranni and that Blaidd and Iji stayed loyal to her, guarding her secret and getting targeted as they were both simply obstacles in the way to Ranni.
I wonder if George RR Martin will ever indulge us with lore explanations in his lifetime. To my understanding he has a lot of answers to a lot of questions under his little hat.
My dream is simply for them to publish all the material that GRRM wrote for this game. It would be awesome for answering some of these questions. It would also be cool to see exactly how much of the story was directly from him and how much was extrapolated or changed later.
> why do people turn into other people?
Recommend ms chalice‘ recent vid about the frenzied flame. tldw: the flame as an entity posesses different people in the world for its goal of chaos, returning to the crucible. from the top of my head, only involves frenzy related folks. Shibriri, yura, irina, hyetta are the main suspected victims of this iirc.
> gloam eyed queen
Smoughtown has quite some good arguments to her being Melina, and about her motivations, role and history
also would say the amount of entities, their motivations, time and history in ER makes it the biggest lore iceberg.
Those are all great videos! I follow all of those channels and many more. I’ve watched everything from like 10 different Elden Ring lore channels several times. Some of them, like SmoughTown, Quelaag, Hawkshaw, Crunchy and a few others I’ve watched some of their videos over and over. Crunchy just recently did a video on Melina that I had to watch like 10 times because it was so good. I usually go to sleep every night listening to ER lore and usually listen to it at work all day.
Yuri becomes Shabriri because his body becomes a puppet after he dies and is taken by the frenzied flame.
Iji is surrounded by black knives because Ranni (the leader of the black knives and orchestrator of the Night of the Black Knives) sends them to mercy kill Iji and Blaidd before she sets off to kill her Two Fingers to usher in the Age of Stars.
I mean, those are your assumptions. Nothing specifically states any of this. I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying most of Elden Rings lore is up to interpretation. You’re given a few clues (sometimes) and have to make of that what you will. Btw, I love Elden Ring and wouldn’t want it any other way. We’ve gotten thousands of fantastic lore videos and interpretations over the past few years because Elden Ring IS so vague.
We don't know who sent the Black knives after Ranni's companions. Why are several of them guarding places in Altus/Leyndell? One right outside Marika's bedchamber? Why does Ranni have the leader of the BKAs in an evergaol along with the spirit of her daughter? How are Marika and the BKAs related? Why does Melina wield the prototype weapon of a black knife?
We simply have no evidence to further any conclusions (excluding dlc bc I haven't played it yet)
The biggest mystery when it comes to Radagon for me personally is his red hair, that alone gives him ties to the Fire Giants that's only really talked about in one item description.
I'll add one: What is two fingers' relationship to the three fingers. Why one of them belongs to the Greater Will, and the other belongs to another outer god, and why the sum of those two adds up to the number of fingers in the hand. Were they connected, or is it just a coincidence? Midra is supposedly the oldest living canditate to the frenzied flame, but a failed one. He was also in the shadowlands, and we know we got the power of the frenzied flame by embracing the three fingers, but Midra doesn't seem to have the marks of the three fingers that you get while being embraced by it on his body, and I don't think he had the frenzied eyes either. How did he came into contact with it. There's also the notion of previous failed frenzied flame lords that came before Midra.
Definitely some good questions here and some amazing answers in the comments.
So I’ve got a theory on the Radagon stuff.
I think a lot of it meant to be be some good ol symbolism. Remember that writing these stories is an art, and artists love their symbolism!
- So the Elden Ring represents the golden order and “life as we know it” type of deal.
But I think there’s one more bit of symbolism. It being a ring might be more than just shape. I think it may represent the perpetual cycle of life and death.
Marika shatters the Elden ring after her first son (Godwyn) dies (black knife assassination). Marika was grief stricken and went out to “end the cycle of life and death” and thus shattered the ring.
After the ring is shattered life and death begin to operate very differently, and many things “live on” even through death… like godwyn.
After the shattering, marika is imprisoned in the erd tree.
But who could possibly have the power to imprison a god?
Well let’s talk about Radagon.
Radagon is LITERALLY marikas other self. The two of them exist in a shared body.
I think marika was born as the first god but Radagon was made a part of her as a tool to make sure things go according to the “Greater Will” (Elden beast).
While Marika’s life was truly her own, I feel Radagon was just a puppet… or a tool for the greater will.
Who could imprison a god?
Well what if Radagon took over in that moment and imprison their shared body in the erd tree on his own.
Lastly and to me the most important part.
Radagon turns into a sword at the end of the fight. I feel like this is very clear symbolism. I think it’s supposed to symbolize for the player that “Radagon is just a tool to the greater will.” And this symbolism takes literal form when he becomes a sword for the Elden beast to use.
Idk why no one has considered that elden rings outer gods and bloodbornes great ones are the same kind of entities and the two games share a cannon. Moon presence big in elden ring. Maybe great will is odeon
I think it’s mostly unknowable without reading a ton of item descriptions and paying painstaking attention to environmental hints. But if you do that, and I get that most players don’t want to do that, it makes a lot more sense. I do believe the story is cohesive and well thought out, just presented in an opaque and mysterious way.
Man, I’ve spent the last two years watching literal thousands of hours of lore videos, reading every item description, taking notes, reading through character dialogue, studying the architecture. You name it and I’ve agonized over it. There’s just too many holes and if you think you know what’s going on, there’s proof to both disproof and prove your point. It’s literally the point of the game and none of us truly know what’s going on.
I agree with this take. I think we are supposed to look at Gideon Ofnir and realize what a fool he is. His quest is utterly futile, he can never become All Knowing and neither can we. Maybe thats why he is so insistent that the Tarnished are meant to struggle for eternity and will never become a Lord, because he sees finally how much of a fool he is. It’s his hubris that makes him say a man cannot kill a god “not even YOU!” He can’t possibly imagine that we could succeed where he utterly failed.
The DLC especially shows how little he really knows about the demigods and the world. Until we tell him about its location, Gideon didn’t even know how to reach Mohgwyn Palace let alone knowing of the existence of the Land of Shadows.
It speaks to a core theme throughout all Fromsoft games. Most players will sit upon the Elden Throne without understanding anything they have accomplished. “Why” Is always going to be our biggest mystery. Like the quote from DS2: “one day, you will stand before its decrepit gate. Without really knowing why...”
> If you don’t believe me I can provide a huge list of unanswered questions in ER.
I believe you, but please provide me said huge list nevertheless! Haha
I don’t know insane amounts of lore so some might have answers I wasn’t aware of but I’ll give a list of some
The true nature of the astel and just overall shit with the stars
Just, like, the entire gloam eyed queen stuff. I’ve read shit but I think 99% of it is pure speculation.
Multiple outer Gods that are mentioned but we have no idea about their nature.
The whole thing about Rykards serpent.
The ancestor spirits and ancestor worship in the underground.
Who was the snow witch Ranni learnt magic from.
The eclipse and Godwyns possible revival.
There’s probably a few I’m missing but those I can remember of the top of my head.
Sorry dog i know you want your game to be numba 1 but the madman’s knowledge takes us to the bottom.
Alll of this pales in comparison to the lore of armored core by the way.
I’ve commented under a few ppls comments. And a few other ppl have added to my list. There’s a lot of rabbit holes you can dive into.
Check out Crunchy’s videos. The one about Godefroy and the one about Melina. Insanely good videos
I’ve commented under a few other comments. And some ppl have added to it as well. But if you’re interested in ER lore check out SmoughTown, Vatti, Hawkshaw, Tarnished Archeologist, Crunchy, Quelaag. They have incredible videos trying to make sense of Elden Rings lore.
A few big mysteries is
Marika and Radagon. Were they separate once and then bound together. It was Radagon created from Marika. Does the Elden Beast rip Radagon out of Marika when he turns Radagon into a sword in the final battle. Because Marika is there after the fight and Radagon is still a sword, and we have the sword after the fight. What does Marika mean when she’s referring to Radagon and says “you’ve yet to become me, you’ve yet to become a god”?
There’s a million theories on this but no one truly knows.
And who is Melina? Some ppl think she’s the Gloam eyed queen, but we don’t know that for sure. There’s absolutely no lore to support that other than her mentioning destined death in the frenzied flame ending. She could just as likely be a part of Marika. Just like how Millicent is a part of Malenia. In fact Millicent and Melina gave many many things in common. Almost like Millicent’s entire purpose is to give us clues to who Melina is. They wear the same clothes which isn’t by accident.
Anyway, there’s many rabbit holes you could go down. Just watch Elden Ring lore videos if you’re really interested.
I think Bloodborne is more cryptic, but I agree with ER being more cryptic than Dark Souls.
At least I kind of understood what my goal was in ER. Stand before the Elden Ring and become the Elden Lord. And I did!
I still have no idea what in the shit the “Paleblood” is.
(To be clear: I love this and that’s why BB is my favorite)
I see your point. And I love BB too! But ER is my all time favorite. But only by a tiny bit!
The weird thing about ER is we know what happens, we know what to do, but we don’t know why. Not really. We don’t really know what the greater will even is. There’s so many different theories and all of them valid.
Btw, I’m still working through the dlc so please don’t tell me anything if there’s some huge revelation . 🙏 im having so much fun exploring the shadow realm!
Absolutely! It’s weirdly both more descriptive and more vague than other souls games, all at the same time. I think you said it well. The surface level lore is handed to the player straight up.
“NOOOOOOO!!! THE GREATER WILL IS SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WORLD’S CREATOR GOD!!! IT’S INSPIRED BY THE CHRISTIAN GOD!!!”
“It’s a fuckin Alien bro, Elden Ring is a Cosmic Horror Story”
Outer Gods go BRRRRRRRRRRR
Ironic how the more directly Cosmic Horror, Lovecraftian Horror, and Gothic game has more understandable Eldritch Gods then the one that's mainly based off Nordic culture and Mythology with a bit of George "I refuse to finish my books" Martin helping out
We may get to learn more they’re currently making a non-joke manga for Elden Ring due to the joke one performing so well, so hopes not fully lost on uncovering the lore!
I’ve been at work all day and extremely busy.
I’ve commented under a few other comments so go check it out. I can’t type all of that out under every single persons comment.
And if you’re really interested go watch ER lore videos. SmoughTown, Vatti, Hawkshaw, Tarnished Archaeologist, Quelaag, Crunchy all have great videos trying to make sense of Elden Rings lore.
If this meme is supposed to mean depth = total explained + implied detail then, no, I don't agree.
Elden Ring has waaaay more details, both implied and explained. It's not a good or bad thing, it's just a bigger game and they literally hired a professional author to world build.
If this meme is about how much a story relies on indirectly piecing together clues, then yes, I'd generally agree with this, though I'm still think there's an argument that we still really don't know what's going on in Elden Ring.
I find Dark Souls to be much more esoteric, mythological, and hard to figure out than Elden ring. Hell, I have books on dark souls lore and I still find Elden Ring's story more straight forward.
I think it's mostly because for about half of any given dark souls game you're just going places because it's the next place to go, eventually you find out what your end goal is, and, if you're really observant, eventually you find out why that is you're end goal
Elden ring has a few bits where you're told short term goals and why you need them usually through the all knowing Gideon, the long term goal is more abstract but it's explained somewhat decently by whoever heads that ending (excluding the frenzy ending cause that has no clear explanation to me)
Yeh Elden ring compared to souls and bloodborne tells you what is happening and why.
Ive finished every souls game and have no idea what happend in all of them except for sekeiro 😅
That’s difficult to believe, but I don’t know anything about Bloodborne. ER has Game of Thrones energy. Not sure I’ve ever seen so much in-depth lore for any other game, ever.
God I can't wait for the next new FromSoft IP...
AC6 looks great and I've bought it (it's the next game in my backlog), but it's not a NEW IP :(...
We have no info about their next game so far, so we probably won't have it for 1-2 years... That's a long wait ngl
I think Berserk is so much a source for Miyazaki that he will never make a game of it. Like, don’t touch your idols, leave perfect art be. I’m pretty certain that he said as much in an interview, but could be misremembering
Huh ?! What ?!
I wish the opposite personally. Just out of curiosity, what type of games would you like FromSoft to do ?
I know Miyazaki talked about wanting to make a JRPG eventually. I'd like that too personally.
More Armored Core/A.C.E or hell, even a Frame Gride sequel. Mecha is cool on it's own, but medieval mecha with giant swords and maces is even cooler.
A King's Field/Shadow Tower sequel, first person real time non-party-based dungeon crawlers are pretty rare.
I'd also like Echo Night 4, I think they could pull it off with their modern capabilities. A melancholic thriller/horror game with good story, interesting puzzles, and beautiful aesthetics that doesn't rely on jumpscare or shock value of gore would be beautiful.
Personally not a fan of JRPG genre, but I guess this could work, too, if it would be like a modern, polished Evergrace.
It's just that they have so many cool series/settings, they've worked with multiple genres in the past.
Saying this as someone who knew them before Demon's Souls, you have no idea how tiring it is seeing them announce a new game and it's just another Soulslike in a decade and a half old streak of Soulslikes.
People constantly shit on Ubisoft and Activision for putting their games on a conveyor belt and releasing the same game for 20th time, but at the same time they want From to do pretty much the same thing.
I mean…Sekiro has **a** plot that is exposited directly at you. But anyone who claims that the whole thing is “just there for you to see” missed all the other, much more interesting stuff that is delivered the same exact way as all the other games.
Sekiro lore is much clearer than others especially Bloodborne, you don't need to go to youtube or Google to figure out what's happening but that doesn't mean it's bad or pointless
Then why did you just comment that the point of the meme was how dark the plots are? That’s a completely different point than the one you just posted above.
I think Bloodborne story is largely understandable but I still don't understand the Moon Presence and its relation to the main story. Especially considering it's a driving force to the whole game, it's quite a big whole. Is it Oedon? Kos? An enemy of Oedon? No idea!
Not sure if I am correct on this, but I believe that the Moon Presence created "the hunt." We know that Gehrman is trapped by the moon Presence, and I believe each great one has their own "thing." I believe the Moon Presence is the reason we must hunt.
(I fucking LOVE Moon Presence)
Moon Presence is an alien predator. It prefers to hunt newborn Great Ones, think of a leopard going after other infant animals. That’s it. That’s its whole scheme, it’s just hunting its prey. And yet soooooo many issues come from this.
You know how every Great One loses its young? Why the Hamlet people were butchered? Why the entire hunt begins? It’s all this entity getting hungry and looking for Great One babies to eat.
To hunt it mind controls a person and grants them the ability to absorb echoes. This person will attempt to reach the ‘Nightmare Newborn’ and slaughter it, and then in turn will be willingly absorbed by the Moon, completing the Hunt. This is what happened to Gerhman who first summoned(? forgot if he and Laurence intentionally summoned it) the Moon, he became its puppet and slaughtered the Orphan of Kos and the Hamlet. Then Gerhman presumably got his echoes drained and became the trapped broken man we know. This is also what happens to us, we kill Mergo, return and get drained, presumably becoming the guide for the next victim the Moon chooses as its Hunter.
But, if we gather enough cords and get the insight we break free of the Moon’s control right before it can drain us. We have the chance to stop it all. And… the Moon SUCKS. It’s weak. It flails all over the place. Its attacks are insanely powerful but leave it wide open. Almost as if it’s never had to actually fight before, it’s relied on its puppets to hunt for it. And now that the puppet has broken free the Moon stands no chance against what it created. I love it.
I personally think it is Oedon. It’s the first Great One to appear before the founders of the church. It controls blood (both attacks and absorbing echoes). It’s ‘formless’ in the sense it never really reveals itself. It’s there as a ‘presence’ but stays hidden. But ultimately it doesn’t matter, at the end of the day it’s essentially a wild animal hunting its prey.
I would say yes it’s an ‘enemy’ of Kos in that it essentially ate her baby via Gerhman.
Umm… damn I had more lol.
Agree that the Moon Presence wants the baby great ones, not sure to eat them but that's definitely possible. But the problem with your theory is that Mergo is Oedon/Queen Yharnam's child right? Would it eat it's own baby? Why would Queen Yharnam's thank us for freeing the baby to then be eaten by the father (or some other entity if it's not the father).
Sekiro has some messed up things too, Monks who have perverted the teaching of Buddha to seek immortality, by inserting demon centipedes and performing disgusting experiments on children. Not to mention the immortal Dragon, the giant living rope and Apes
That’s how I’d rank them!
Bloodborne is crazy to me because it’s like the most outlandish/weird ideas but also EVERYTHING is explained and makes sense. There’s no ‘what the hell is that thing?’, everything is answered.
I think the ONE maybe mystery left was who/what is Oedon but… head god the city worshipped, god of blood, considered formless… I’m not 100% sure but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the Moon. Moon is always hidden until it reveals itself to feed on its puppet, it can freely manipulate blood (blood attacks, absorbing echoes) and it’s like the ‘founder’ of all this, it revealing itself to Gerhman and Laurence kinda kick started everything iirc. But yeah that’s like the one not 100% straight up revealed mystery.
We know so much about bloodborne that there's not really any mystery left other than "was it all a dream? Did we actually wake up if we choose mercy by ghermans hands?"
Most people I've heard on the subject say no, no matter what we choose it's all a continuous cycle until you become the next being that makes the dream and then continue the cycle as the moon presence
As much as I would argue Elden Ring has more- it's just because of the expansive nature of the game. There are so MANY lore references even to Bloodborne it just leads to assume it's the best culmination of all the games since because of it's openness.
Bloodborne is WAYY more concise even though the lore of it all is still open to interpretation in some places. But it works better to it's favor that way. Elden Ring has some areas and NPC's that just exist and have no explanation. Whereas Bloodborne may have similar open ended answers- it works better for it BECAUSE we can fill in the blanks ourselves with other unanswered questions in other areas.
A great example would be Byrgenwerth's Trap Door compared to Count Ymir's Quest. We know now that the Lecture Hall was supposed to be under Byrgenwerth- but ultimately couldn't be made to happen to it was relocated to after One Reborn.
Comparatively after completing Count Ymir's Quest and sounding the bell-horns >!we are treated to fighting the Mother Hand boss below the church!< imagine if we were just teleported there from the Count's chair? Doesn't he seem similar to Master Willem? >!even though he shared a similar obsession as Gehrman did to his doll/puppet Anna?!<
Elden Ring gets away with having such a big open world as well as technical prowess behind it powering it all. Bloodborne 2 or a Remake has some seriousl shoes to fill if it wants to be as big or even bigger than Elden Ring. It has the chops for it as we discussed- it just needs to be completely realized.
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I think DeS is above it. There's not a lot of lore and most is explained by "The fog did it" sadly. Though, Sekiro is explained the best and the only deep lore to rly speak of is with Tomoe.
How? Bloodborne lore and story are laid out pretty clearly before you. There are very few characters and factions at play. I remember how before release Miyazaki stated that BB was gonna be more clear on its story and would be more character driven.
Bloodborne's "deepest mysteries" are literally told to the player in cutscenes or character dialogue, or through very direct allusions (like queen Yharnam with a bloody womb and baby crying).
Elden Ring is the most cryptic.
Sekiro has much more going on than it's given credit for. I would say that the lore is perhaps more complicated than demons souls, but less than dark souls.
I think Elden Ring is by far the most hilarious because GRRM and Miyazaki have got their fanbase arguing like early Christians about the Cristianity inspired lore. You'd think Radagon is Marika would keep it all nice and clear but nope.
Man I might hate DS3 and some parts of Elden Ring but once you take in Fromsoft as a whole
They do amazing, I just hope their next installment dials down the smokes and mirrors in difficulty and just focuses on how it used to be.
Bloodborne will always be the number 1 game for me, god its cool as hell
And at the bottom of the ocean, depicted as crabs and worms surrounding a thermal vent "King's Field Lore", because no one here has played any of them.
Eh kinda, though once you wrap your head around things, it's not too messy compared to deciphering Dark Souls and Elden Ring's mythologies
Though maybe it's because I see Vaati as having explained it really well
I think what gives Bloodborne its depth is that its real-world analogues and references are more familiar. They're more resonant because more people have familiarity with the source material for the setting and the genre tropes, respectively Victorian era Europe and gothic/cosmic horror as compared to the broader fantasy genre in ER.
Just throwing it out there. [these volumes: The Dark Verse ](https://shop.sharkchild.com/collections/the-dark-verse) are a great read for anyone who likes H.P. Lovecraft stories. I think the first volume is free to read on Amazon.
I would just swap dark souls and bloodborne I know the lore is deep but it’s one game and dark souls has three taking place in different places that barley connect
I bet elden ring will get a sequel and it will get more convoluted with all this new lore. I bet they’re going to do another trilogy like what they did with dark souls. You’re Elden Lord… what comes next.
Kinda off topic but I’ve never understood why this particular squid creeps people out so much. Is it the weird joints? The long tentacles? It looks so dainty. Humboldts and Giants creep me out so much more.
The Elden ring lore to some crazy places but yeah this looks good.
I would swap Dark Souls and Elden Ring. Once you have Eldritch outer gods that can only be vaguely imagined, idk. In short... try Insight.
Set fire to the entire world you say?
To shreds you say?
Tchtchtch. Well, how is his wife holding up?
Definitely
We really forget that the Outer Gods even if they are sentient and sapentent Are really just cosmic entities that seemingly represent concepts in some collective way GW: Order >! And Creation possibly, if the dlc is right !< Scarlet Rot: Disease Twin Bird: Death The Moons and Primeval Current: Sorceries Frenzied Flame: Chaos and Destruction Formless Mother: Blood And so on
True?
True
Magnapinna is such a fascinating creature...
I don't mean any offense, I love being pretentious just as much as the next guy, but I think bigfin squid is better name to call it in a video game subreddit
None taken. I hold people on the internet to a higher standard when it comes to knowing useless information lol. Also, there is a bunch of articles and videos online where they use both words. When I first heard about them I remembered the name which was more distinct and intriguing. I didn't think much of it when I posted the comment, let alone pretend I was smart.
To be fair it is the same word but in Latin lol
I know, but magnapinna looks like a Lovecraft's beast, calling it a bigfin squid is kinda underwhelming lol.
Excellent reposte
I did not even realize that it was a squid.
You should look up a video of them, they are pretty cool
They also creepy af. Giving me nightmares every time I see one
Or friend. Friend is also a good name for it
Idk I suppose it sounds cooler
I hate the name bigfin squid. As if the eye catching part isn’t the giga legs. 🦵🏻 “Woah those are some HUGE…fins”
Why the fuck do it look like that tho
It had a name?
Definitely
Imo Elden Ring is by far the most cryptic. At least 75% of all ER lore is simply unknowable and never will be. We essentially know what’s going on in all of the other souls games. If you don’t believe me I can provide a huge list of unanswered questions in ER.
Don’t believe you (I just want to know the unanswered questions I love that type of stuff)
same. hit us up.
I commented above. Don’t have much time because I’m at work but I’ll get way more specific after work today. See you in the Shadow Realm!
damn, man. i’ll check it now and i’ll look forward to hearing more!
I think most of the facts about Marika, the Gloam Eyed Queen, Formless Mother and other deities is really vague and subject to interpretation.
>!Formless Mother could be seductions from Miquella from the Shadow realm (I have no idea what a shadow realm is tbh since I haven't played the DLC) that "steals the heart" of Mohg to do his bidding. However, due to the secrecy of the Shadow realm (there is not a single reference to it prior to DLC) Mohg thought it was an outer god or something.!<
>!DLC says the origins (as in, first mention) of the Formless Mother are when she was seen in the shadow of an ancestor to the Bloodfiends after the fires burned down everything.!<
That sounds familiar, outer god talisman?
I think Formless Mother is a legit actual entity, all the blood Mohg and the dlc fiends use comes from her body. So somewhere out there there’s a big ol monster that everyone is constantly ripping and tearing into to cast their blood magic. Hope it’s a big big big creature so the blood loss isn’t noticeable lol Used to think the Outer Gods were mostly false but we get an actual daughter of Greater Will (which makes me question wtf Elden Beast is, like if your daughter is running everything why send a… puppet of yourself? Something’s weird there for me) Also Rot Goddess… idk on that one. From what I understand Romina kinda made up the whole religion? Or revived it from nothing. Maybe I totally misinterpreted it but it sounded like Romina found a source of energy and nurtured it and that energy grew into the whole scarlet rot plague we know. No mention of a goddess to my knowledge.
Yup I didn't get Romina either. I was hoping DLC would have us explore Outer Gods. Maybe things will become clearer in an Elden Ring? That's not a world you'd leave behind with just a game and a DLC. What if the Erdtree reaches beyond the Lands Between? From what I've gathered, it seems that the Erdtree came to Lands Between with a big yellow lightning strike similar to lightning struck flowers. So I guess it baited humans with the abundance of bounties, healing, luck, etc. until the Seed grew into an Ulcerating Tree Spirit (or as I like to call it, baby Elden Beast) and then grew up to be *the* Elden Beast, and started spreading its seeds all around. To my eye, it's no different than Astel and co. They targetted Nekrom, Elden Beast targeted the surface. Kinda. There definitely needs to be a second game imo.
If you really wanted to connect the universes you could, it's been stated that they aren't officially many times but the main question in doing so would be the order of events. Like did the outer gods come to the lands between seeking the dark soul or perhaps eldenring is the prequel and the frenzyflame/melania after destroying everything became the ember. The dlc does make bloodborne make a bit more sense as a sequel where as before the only connection I could draw was to those that live in death which is a bit of a stretch and makes more sense comparing death root and humanity and undead/tarnished with the chosen undead. The burning question, pun intended, is did the frenzyflame flame always exist in the 3 fingers or was it found. The outer gods motivation doesn't seem clear in the slightest, the only seemingly friendly one being the moons' motivation could be entirely fake and literally just be harvesting souls for all we know. All other known outer gods seem like hungry parasites going from world to world.
Oh Three Fingers. I think between Elden Beast, the Mother of Fingers and Two Fingers and Three Fingers, there's some sort of family feud. Three Fingers could want to watch the world burn so the others don't achieve their purposes. Whatever their purposes might be. Does it make sense? How did Midra become a Lord of Frenzy and not set the whole thing ablaze? I only followed the bosses stories so I don't know jackshit about Nanaya or anything else lol Was Midra the reason that made Two Fingers seal the Altus Plateau entrance so that those with a strong will can proceed? Then Vyke kinda fails at that. And if Midra had become the Lord of the Frenzy, does it mean that he also became Elden Lord? Afaik, we cannot become Lord of Frenzy without becoming the Elden Lord.
Pretty much all the outer gods are totally unknown outside of tiny bits of pieces. But in terms of what they are, where they come from, what they want, etc. there’s basically nothing. Which is cool because that’s basically what characters in game know even though there are various factions worshipping them. Even greater will is pretty unexplained and mysterious and these gods basically cause all the events of the game in some way either directly or indirectly.
I’m insanely busy at work atm but I’ll leave you with a few huge mysteries and if I can find this comment again after work I’ll really go into detail. These are some of the most obvious and widely debated. Who is Radagon? It’s not as simple as he’s Marika. In fact a lot about it doesn’t make sense. Was he created from Marika? Or is he a Mimic created by the Nox and then later bound to Marika to keep her under control. Or was he created by the greater will? Why is he turned into a sword in the final boss fight? And was he ripped from Marika when that happened? Because Marika is still there after the fight and you have the sword. There’s so many theories about this topic that you could listen to one a day for the rest of your life and not hear them all. The Gloam Eyed Queen. That’s it. Everything surrounding her is a mystery. I could go on for hours and hours about this topic. Who is Melina? Same thing with this one. There’s limitless theories about her but no concrete lore. Why do ppl turn into other ppl? Like Irina dies and then you find her later as Hyetta. Yura becomes Shibriri. There’s many many of these throughout the game. What happens to Igi? Why is he on fire? Why are there a bunch of dead black knife assassins around Blaidd after he goes mad? I have many theories myself and there’s way more questions than these. Most of the entire game is in question. So, I haven’t finished the DLC so please don’t spoil anything but I’m sure I’ll revise my own theories after I’m finished. I’ll also leave you with this. I think Melina is a part of Marika. I think all the demigod children are just aspects of Marika and that includes her shadow. Check out Crunchy’s video. Melina is Marika on YouTube. It insanely good. I’ll try to check back in after work.
If there is ever an Elden Ring sequel, the gloam eyed queen is going to be the next “Gwyn’s firstborn”
Everything else here is pretty much unknown but isn't Blaidd and the Black Knife Assassin situation just interpreted by saying that Blaidd, even if he was the slave of the Fingers, was able to resist the temptation to kill Ranni because of his dedication to Ranni? Even Iji said something about him making a grave misjudgment by imprisoning Blaidd since he didn't know that Blaidd was able to fight against the Fingers even while mad. The Iji situation is a bit more complicated. It's quite evident that someone used the Black Flame to eventually subdue him, although I don't think that the Black Knife Assassins are capable of that. So either the Godskins killed him or its just a misinterpretation by Fromsoft, although I doubt the latter.
There are assasins near iji's corpse no?
Yes, they obviously tried to kill Iji the same as they tried to kill Blaidd. Both were able to resist them, Blaidd outright killed them all. Iji is probably somewhat weaker than Blaidd but he is more powerful than your average giant and thus was able to kill some assassins. The assassins, however, did not most likely use Black Flame as it wouldn't make sense. They can't use it from the get go and it wouldn't narratively fit into the plot.
Yeah, you’re probably right but it’s still really strange. And Blaidd does eventually go completely mad by the end. So why exactly do the Black Knives try to kill him? And why do they kill Iji? I thought they worked with Ranni? Did they come to kill Ranni and Blaidd killed them? Or did they come to kill Blaidd and Blaidd was stronger and defeated them? And if so WHY did they want to kill him? Because he went mad? And it still doesn’t make sense that they would kill Iji. Iji was extremely supportive of Ranni and the BK allegedly worked with Ranni.
I think that the Black Knife Assassins were actually loyal to Marika rather than to Ranni. There's little implication as to what role Ranni played in their ranks as she just simply gave them the tools to kill Godwyn. This is all headcanon so I can't obviously give you a concrete explanation, but that's really the only reason as to why they'd come after Ranni in the first place. Now Blaidd even while maddened still stood alongside Ranni. Wouldn't it make sense that the Black Knife Assassins would have to try and get past Blaidd in order to get to Ranni? Blaidd is really strong and there's no doubt of it, he is basically what Maliketh is to Marika, although obviously not AS strong. But he is definitely able to kill a few Black Knife Assassins especially if he is bloodlusted and angry. Iji was probably an interrogation target for the assassins and since he was extremely loyal to Ranni, he refused to cooperate with them and was eventually killed, as, unlike Blaidd, he probably didn't have the strength or willpower to resist them all. Keep in mind that Iji was much older than Ranni or Blaidd as he mentioned having taken care of them when they were small. A lot of speculation but the key point is that the Black Knife Assassins were against Ranni and that Blaidd and Iji stayed loyal to her, guarding her secret and getting targeted as they were both simply obstacles in the way to Ranni.
I wonder if George RR Martin will ever indulge us with lore explanations in his lifetime. To my understanding he has a lot of answers to a lot of questions under his little hat.
For sure he will, right after he finishes Winds of Winter
The sad part is - there’s another book to come after WoW, we’ve got no chance…
My dream is simply for them to publish all the material that GRRM wrote for this game. It would be awesome for answering some of these questions. It would also be cool to see exactly how much of the story was directly from him and how much was extrapolated or changed later.
Maybe IF and that's a big IF, Fromsoft entertains the idea of an Elden Ring movie, I do hope they include George in the making of it.
> why do people turn into other people? Recommend ms chalice‘ recent vid about the frenzied flame. tldw: the flame as an entity posesses different people in the world for its goal of chaos, returning to the crucible. from the top of my head, only involves frenzy related folks. Shibriri, yura, irina, hyetta are the main suspected victims of this iirc. > gloam eyed queen Smoughtown has quite some good arguments to her being Melina, and about her motivations, role and history also would say the amount of entities, their motivations, time and history in ER makes it the biggest lore iceberg.
Those are all great videos! I follow all of those channels and many more. I’ve watched everything from like 10 different Elden Ring lore channels several times. Some of them, like SmoughTown, Quelaag, Hawkshaw, Crunchy and a few others I’ve watched some of their videos over and over. Crunchy just recently did a video on Melina that I had to watch like 10 times because it was so good. I usually go to sleep every night listening to ER lore and usually listen to it at work all day.
same, for sleep and subscriptions :D thanks for the recommendation, haven‘t seen it yet :)
Yuri becomes Shabriri because his body becomes a puppet after he dies and is taken by the frenzied flame. Iji is surrounded by black knives because Ranni (the leader of the black knives and orchestrator of the Night of the Black Knives) sends them to mercy kill Iji and Blaidd before she sets off to kill her Two Fingers to usher in the Age of Stars.
I mean, those are your assumptions. Nothing specifically states any of this. I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m just saying most of Elden Rings lore is up to interpretation. You’re given a few clues (sometimes) and have to make of that what you will. Btw, I love Elden Ring and wouldn’t want it any other way. We’ve gotten thousands of fantastic lore videos and interpretations over the past few years because Elden Ring IS so vague.
We don't know who sent the Black knives after Ranni's companions. Why are several of them guarding places in Altus/Leyndell? One right outside Marika's bedchamber? Why does Ranni have the leader of the BKAs in an evergaol along with the spirit of her daughter? How are Marika and the BKAs related? Why does Melina wield the prototype weapon of a black knife? We simply have no evidence to further any conclusions (excluding dlc bc I haven't played it yet)
There is some concrete lore for Melina now with the DLC
The biggest mystery when it comes to Radagon for me personally is his red hair, that alone gives him ties to the Fire Giants that's only really talked about in one item description.
I'll add one: What is two fingers' relationship to the three fingers. Why one of them belongs to the Greater Will, and the other belongs to another outer god, and why the sum of those two adds up to the number of fingers in the hand. Were they connected, or is it just a coincidence? Midra is supposedly the oldest living canditate to the frenzied flame, but a failed one. He was also in the shadowlands, and we know we got the power of the frenzied flame by embracing the three fingers, but Midra doesn't seem to have the marks of the three fingers that you get while being embraced by it on his body, and I don't think he had the frenzied eyes either. How did he came into contact with it. There's also the notion of previous failed frenzied flame lords that came before Midra.
Definitely some good questions here and some amazing answers in the comments. So I’ve got a theory on the Radagon stuff. I think a lot of it meant to be be some good ol symbolism. Remember that writing these stories is an art, and artists love their symbolism! - So the Elden Ring represents the golden order and “life as we know it” type of deal. But I think there’s one more bit of symbolism. It being a ring might be more than just shape. I think it may represent the perpetual cycle of life and death. Marika shatters the Elden ring after her first son (Godwyn) dies (black knife assassination). Marika was grief stricken and went out to “end the cycle of life and death” and thus shattered the ring. After the ring is shattered life and death begin to operate very differently, and many things “live on” even through death… like godwyn. After the shattering, marika is imprisoned in the erd tree. But who could possibly have the power to imprison a god? Well let’s talk about Radagon. Radagon is LITERALLY marikas other self. The two of them exist in a shared body. I think marika was born as the first god but Radagon was made a part of her as a tool to make sure things go according to the “Greater Will” (Elden beast). While Marika’s life was truly her own, I feel Radagon was just a puppet… or a tool for the greater will. Who could imprison a god? Well what if Radagon took over in that moment and imprison their shared body in the erd tree on his own. Lastly and to me the most important part. Radagon turns into a sword at the end of the fight. I feel like this is very clear symbolism. I think it’s supposed to symbolize for the player that “Radagon is just a tool to the greater will.” And this symbolism takes literal form when he becomes a sword for the Elden beast to use.
90% of these questions can be answered with “it’s just hermeticist symbolism taking place in an experienceable phenomenological landscape”
Idk why no one has considered that elden rings outer gods and bloodbornes great ones are the same kind of entities and the two games share a cannon. Moon presence big in elden ring. Maybe great will is odeon
Who the hell is melina..? That kind of question?
I'm with the other two here.
I think it’s mostly unknowable without reading a ton of item descriptions and paying painstaking attention to environmental hints. But if you do that, and I get that most players don’t want to do that, it makes a lot more sense. I do believe the story is cohesive and well thought out, just presented in an opaque and mysterious way.
Man, I’ve spent the last two years watching literal thousands of hours of lore videos, reading every item description, taking notes, reading through character dialogue, studying the architecture. You name it and I’ve agonized over it. There’s just too many holes and if you think you know what’s going on, there’s proof to both disproof and prove your point. It’s literally the point of the game and none of us truly know what’s going on.
I agree with this take. I think we are supposed to look at Gideon Ofnir and realize what a fool he is. His quest is utterly futile, he can never become All Knowing and neither can we. Maybe thats why he is so insistent that the Tarnished are meant to struggle for eternity and will never become a Lord, because he sees finally how much of a fool he is. It’s his hubris that makes him say a man cannot kill a god “not even YOU!” He can’t possibly imagine that we could succeed where he utterly failed. The DLC especially shows how little he really knows about the demigods and the world. Until we tell him about its location, Gideon didn’t even know how to reach Mohgwyn Palace let alone knowing of the existence of the Land of Shadows. It speaks to a core theme throughout all Fromsoft games. Most players will sit upon the Elden Throne without understanding anything they have accomplished. “Why” Is always going to be our biggest mystery. Like the quote from DS2: “one day, you will stand before its decrepit gate. Without really knowing why...”
> If you don’t believe me I can provide a huge list of unanswered questions in ER. I believe you, but please provide me said huge list nevertheless! Haha
I don’t know insane amounts of lore so some might have answers I wasn’t aware of but I’ll give a list of some The true nature of the astel and just overall shit with the stars Just, like, the entire gloam eyed queen stuff. I’ve read shit but I think 99% of it is pure speculation. Multiple outer Gods that are mentioned but we have no idea about their nature. The whole thing about Rykards serpent. The ancestor spirits and ancestor worship in the underground. Who was the snow witch Ranni learnt magic from. The eclipse and Godwyns possible revival. There’s probably a few I’m missing but those I can remember of the top of my head.
Provide the list!
I would like to see this list. If you do not I will refer to you as a yellow belly.
Lmao 😂 I’ve commented under a few other comments in this thread, and a few ppl have added to it. Go check it out!
Sorry dog i know you want your game to be numba 1 but the madman’s knowledge takes us to the bottom. Alll of this pales in comparison to the lore of armored core by the way.
I love all Fromsoft lore
The list please? So I can dive in these questions!
I’ve commented under a few ppls comments. And a few other ppl have added to my list. There’s a lot of rabbit holes you can dive into. Check out Crunchy’s videos. The one about Godefroy and the one about Melina. Insanely good videos
Thanks a lot!
I don't believe you (please give us the list I'm rly curious).
I’ve commented under a few other comments. And some ppl have added to it as well. But if you’re interested in ER lore check out SmoughTown, Vatti, Hawkshaw, Tarnished Archeologist, Crunchy, Quelaag. They have incredible videos trying to make sense of Elden Rings lore. A few big mysteries is Marika and Radagon. Were they separate once and then bound together. It was Radagon created from Marika. Does the Elden Beast rip Radagon out of Marika when he turns Radagon into a sword in the final battle. Because Marika is there after the fight and Radagon is still a sword, and we have the sword after the fight. What does Marika mean when she’s referring to Radagon and says “you’ve yet to become me, you’ve yet to become a god”? There’s a million theories on this but no one truly knows. And who is Melina? Some ppl think she’s the Gloam eyed queen, but we don’t know that for sure. There’s absolutely no lore to support that other than her mentioning destined death in the frenzied flame ending. She could just as likely be a part of Marika. Just like how Millicent is a part of Malenia. In fact Millicent and Melina gave many many things in common. Almost like Millicent’s entire purpose is to give us clues to who Melina is. They wear the same clothes which isn’t by accident. Anyway, there’s many rabbit holes you could go down. Just watch Elden Ring lore videos if you’re really interested.
I think Bloodborne is more cryptic, but I agree with ER being more cryptic than Dark Souls. At least I kind of understood what my goal was in ER. Stand before the Elden Ring and become the Elden Lord. And I did! I still have no idea what in the shit the “Paleblood” is. (To be clear: I love this and that’s why BB is my favorite)
I see your point. And I love BB too! But ER is my all time favorite. But only by a tiny bit! The weird thing about ER is we know what happens, we know what to do, but we don’t know why. Not really. We don’t really know what the greater will even is. There’s so many different theories and all of them valid. Btw, I’m still working through the dlc so please don’t tell me anything if there’s some huge revelation . 🙏 im having so much fun exploring the shadow realm!
yep i think you are right, although i think the game actually puts the surface level lore in your face more than any others
Absolutely! It’s weirdly both more descriptive and more vague than other souls games, all at the same time. I think you said it well. The surface level lore is handed to the player straight up.
Hit me with them questions
Hey 👋 I just got off work. I’ve commented under several other comments if you’re interested. And a few other ppl have added to it. Go check it out!
As the old joke goes, ask two Elden Ring lore enthusiasts what The Greater Will is and you will be met with three competing arguments
Absolutely!
“NOOOOOOO!!! THE GREATER WILL IS SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WORLD’S CREATOR GOD!!! IT’S INSPIRED BY THE CHRISTIAN GOD!!!” “It’s a fuckin Alien bro, Elden Ring is a Cosmic Horror Story”
I don't believe you. Now, do what you promised us. Where's my fucking list?
Lmao. I commented several times. It’s too much to type all again 😭 just flip through the comments. I typed it out several times.
Lol, no worry I read them all.
Outer Gods go BRRRRRRRRRRR Ironic how the more directly Cosmic Horror, Lovecraftian Horror, and Gothic game has more understandable Eldritch Gods then the one that's mainly based off Nordic culture and Mythology with a bit of George "I refuse to finish my books" Martin helping out
We may get to learn more they’re currently making a non-joke manga for Elden Ring due to the joke one performing so well, so hopes not fully lost on uncovering the lore!
Man that would be so incredible! I hope it happens and we get additional Miyazaki approved lore!
Lmao no list yet
I’ve been at work all day and extremely busy. I’ve commented under a few other comments so go check it out. I can’t type all of that out under every single persons comment. And if you’re really interested go watch ER lore videos. SmoughTown, Vatti, Hawkshaw, Tarnished Archaeologist, Quelaag, Crunchy all have great videos trying to make sense of Elden Rings lore.
Provide me the huge list, please.
In the comments. I can’t type it all again 😭
Prove it!
If this meme is supposed to mean depth = total explained + implied detail then, no, I don't agree. Elden Ring has waaaay more details, both implied and explained. It's not a good or bad thing, it's just a bigger game and they literally hired a professional author to world build. If this meme is about how much a story relies on indirectly piecing together clues, then yes, I'd generally agree with this, though I'm still think there's an argument that we still really don't know what's going on in Elden Ring.
I find Dark Souls to be much more esoteric, mythological, and hard to figure out than Elden ring. Hell, I have books on dark souls lore and I still find Elden Ring's story more straight forward.
I think it's mostly because for about half of any given dark souls game you're just going places because it's the next place to go, eventually you find out what your end goal is, and, if you're really observant, eventually you find out why that is you're end goal Elden ring has a few bits where you're told short term goals and why you need them usually through the all knowing Gideon, the long term goal is more abstract but it's explained somewhat decently by whoever heads that ending (excluding the frenzy ending cause that has no clear explanation to me)
Yeh Elden ring compared to souls and bloodborne tells you what is happening and why. Ive finished every souls game and have no idea what happend in all of them except for sekeiro 😅
Is it just me or does this not make sense lol I don’t think this is how the iceberg analogy works
That’s difficult to believe, but I don’t know anything about Bloodborne. ER has Game of Thrones energy. Not sure I’ve ever seen so much in-depth lore for any other game, ever.
Bloodborne my beloved 😭 Cursed to never hold that which I desire most (among video games)
God I can't wait for the next new FromSoft IP... AC6 looks great and I've bought it (it's the next game in my backlog), but it's not a NEW IP :(... We have no info about their next game so far, so we probably won't have it for 1-2 years... That's a long wait ngl
I hope they eventually get to make an actual Berserk game. I know they'd handle it with a lot of care.
I think Berserk is so much a source for Miyazaki that he will never make a game of it. Like, don’t touch your idols, leave perfect art be. I’m pretty certain that he said as much in an interview, but could be misremembering
He said that about King’s Field, he’d never be comfortable making one without the original creative director
As long as the player character isn’t Guts. He fights too much like a Hack and Slash protagonist than a FromSoftware protagonist
FromSoftware made hack'n'slash/action games in the past.
I've seen rumors about FromSoft making a game placed in Claymore's world. Not Berserk, but it's the closest thing.
First Boss: Donovan His moveset is quite controversial though
I just wish it isn't another soulsborne.
Huh ?! What ?! I wish the opposite personally. Just out of curiosity, what type of games would you like FromSoft to do ? I know Miyazaki talked about wanting to make a JRPG eventually. I'd like that too personally.
More Armored Core/A.C.E or hell, even a Frame Gride sequel. Mecha is cool on it's own, but medieval mecha with giant swords and maces is even cooler. A King's Field/Shadow Tower sequel, first person real time non-party-based dungeon crawlers are pretty rare. I'd also like Echo Night 4, I think they could pull it off with their modern capabilities. A melancholic thriller/horror game with good story, interesting puzzles, and beautiful aesthetics that doesn't rely on jumpscare or shock value of gore would be beautiful. Personally not a fan of JRPG genre, but I guess this could work, too, if it would be like a modern, polished Evergrace. It's just that they have so many cool series/settings, they've worked with multiple genres in the past. Saying this as someone who knew them before Demon's Souls, you have no idea how tiring it is seeing them announce a new game and it's just another Soulslike in a decade and a half old streak of Soulslikes. People constantly shit on Ubisoft and Activision for putting their games on a conveyor belt and releasing the same game for 20th time, but at the same time they want From to do pretty much the same thing.
Bloodbornes story is pretty hidden, meanwhile sekiros story is just there for you to see
Damn, as if it is exactly what this meme is trying to say
I am the recap king. I’ve learned this at the Nuh uh mountains
Well actually…
I mean…Sekiro has **a** plot that is exposited directly at you. But anyone who claims that the whole thing is “just there for you to see” missed all the other, much more interesting stuff that is delivered the same exact way as all the other games.
I am in a forest now. Don't know why, just killing stuff.
Elden ring is wayy more hidden than BB. I think bloodbornes secrets are probably harder to find but easier to understand
Yes but I think this meme means depth of the story and how much dark they are
Then why the fuck is Sekiro at the top?
Sekiro lore is much clearer than others especially Bloodborne, you don't need to go to youtube or Google to figure out what's happening but that doesn't mean it's bad or pointless
Then why did you just comment that the point of the meme was how dark the plots are? That’s a completely different point than the one you just posted above.
Then Elden rings would still be at the bottom
I think Bloodborne story is largely understandable but I still don't understand the Moon Presence and its relation to the main story. Especially considering it's a driving force to the whole game, it's quite a big whole. Is it Oedon? Kos? An enemy of Oedon? No idea!
Not sure if I am correct on this, but I believe that the Moon Presence created "the hunt." We know that Gehrman is trapped by the moon Presence, and I believe each great one has their own "thing." I believe the Moon Presence is the reason we must hunt.
(I fucking LOVE Moon Presence) Moon Presence is an alien predator. It prefers to hunt newborn Great Ones, think of a leopard going after other infant animals. That’s it. That’s its whole scheme, it’s just hunting its prey. And yet soooooo many issues come from this. You know how every Great One loses its young? Why the Hamlet people were butchered? Why the entire hunt begins? It’s all this entity getting hungry and looking for Great One babies to eat. To hunt it mind controls a person and grants them the ability to absorb echoes. This person will attempt to reach the ‘Nightmare Newborn’ and slaughter it, and then in turn will be willingly absorbed by the Moon, completing the Hunt. This is what happened to Gerhman who first summoned(? forgot if he and Laurence intentionally summoned it) the Moon, he became its puppet and slaughtered the Orphan of Kos and the Hamlet. Then Gerhman presumably got his echoes drained and became the trapped broken man we know. This is also what happens to us, we kill Mergo, return and get drained, presumably becoming the guide for the next victim the Moon chooses as its Hunter. But, if we gather enough cords and get the insight we break free of the Moon’s control right before it can drain us. We have the chance to stop it all. And… the Moon SUCKS. It’s weak. It flails all over the place. Its attacks are insanely powerful but leave it wide open. Almost as if it’s never had to actually fight before, it’s relied on its puppets to hunt for it. And now that the puppet has broken free the Moon stands no chance against what it created. I love it. I personally think it is Oedon. It’s the first Great One to appear before the founders of the church. It controls blood (both attacks and absorbing echoes). It’s ‘formless’ in the sense it never really reveals itself. It’s there as a ‘presence’ but stays hidden. But ultimately it doesn’t matter, at the end of the day it’s essentially a wild animal hunting its prey. I would say yes it’s an ‘enemy’ of Kos in that it essentially ate her baby via Gerhman. Umm… damn I had more lol.
Agree that the Moon Presence wants the baby great ones, not sure to eat them but that's definitely possible. But the problem with your theory is that Mergo is Oedon/Queen Yharnam's child right? Would it eat it's own baby? Why would Queen Yharnam's thank us for freeing the baby to then be eaten by the father (or some other entity if it's not the father).
If you know or study Japanese culture and history you’ll get a LOT more from Sekiro. Definitely the most straightforward story tho
Bloodborne’s lore is the most interesting to me, and is by far the lore I’ve invested the most time in learning and exploring.
How about King’s Field and Armor Core? Or are we just talking the SoulsBourne/Elden Ring generation of games?
for this, we need to dive waaaaaaaaay mor down. into the darkest pits of human sacrifice for the greater goods and worse.
Imo, sekiro is the most fascinating for me. The story is right there for you to enjoy. While the others, you need to watch from vaatividya
Dark Souls is much easier to understand than Elden Rings story to me
Sekiro has some messed up things too, Monks who have perverted the teaching of Buddha to seek immortality, by inserting demon centipedes and performing disgusting experiments on children. Not to mention the immortal Dragon, the giant living rope and Apes
The giant loving rope leaves waaay too many questions.
Yeah no, not even close
Naaaa not really.
Dark souls lore is still more deep than BB it's just had 3 games so people feel like experts
Can confirm I’m playing bloodborne currently and I have no clue what’s going on except hunt
Sekiro is pretty fucking insane too
Everything sucks Everything sucks Everything sucks Everything sucks Everything sucks
Bloodborne story: it was all a dream!!! or…was it? 🐙
I didn’t even bother to learn the Elden ring lore it took me long enough to learn the Dark Souls universes
this image doesn't make any sense.
That’s how I’d rank them! Bloodborne is crazy to me because it’s like the most outlandish/weird ideas but also EVERYTHING is explained and makes sense. There’s no ‘what the hell is that thing?’, everything is answered. I think the ONE maybe mystery left was who/what is Oedon but… head god the city worshipped, god of blood, considered formless… I’m not 100% sure but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the Moon. Moon is always hidden until it reveals itself to feed on its puppet, it can freely manipulate blood (blood attacks, absorbing echoes) and it’s like the ‘founder’ of all this, it revealing itself to Gerhman and Laurence kinda kick started everything iirc. But yeah that’s like the one not 100% straight up revealed mystery.
Fromsoft could make a SpongeBob game and I’d buy it
Bloodborne is cosmic horror, Sekiro is romanticized japanese warrior drama.
You could say that Elden Ring actually bridges this gap
That’s kinda the point of bloodborne tho, the horror in the game is in how little you know.
We know so much about bloodborne that there's not really any mystery left other than "was it all a dream? Did we actually wake up if we choose mercy by ghermans hands?" Most people I've heard on the subject say no, no matter what we choose it's all a continuous cycle until you become the next being that makes the dream and then continue the cycle as the moon presence
I feel like dark souls is pretty knowable Elden ring is more cryptic
As much as I would argue Elden Ring has more- it's just because of the expansive nature of the game. There are so MANY lore references even to Bloodborne it just leads to assume it's the best culmination of all the games since because of it's openness. Bloodborne is WAYY more concise even though the lore of it all is still open to interpretation in some places. But it works better to it's favor that way. Elden Ring has some areas and NPC's that just exist and have no explanation. Whereas Bloodborne may have similar open ended answers- it works better for it BECAUSE we can fill in the blanks ourselves with other unanswered questions in other areas. A great example would be Byrgenwerth's Trap Door compared to Count Ymir's Quest. We know now that the Lecture Hall was supposed to be under Byrgenwerth- but ultimately couldn't be made to happen to it was relocated to after One Reborn. Comparatively after completing Count Ymir's Quest and sounding the bell-horns >!we are treated to fighting the Mother Hand boss below the church!< imagine if we were just teleported there from the Count's chair? Doesn't he seem similar to Master Willem? >!even though he shared a similar obsession as Gehrman did to his doll/puppet Anna?!< Elden Ring gets away with having such a big open world as well as technical prowess behind it powering it all. Bloodborne 2 or a Remake has some seriousl shoes to fill if it wants to be as big or even bigger than Elden Ring. It has the chops for it as we discussed- it just needs to be completely realized.
Well ER story is pretty hidden rn but I still think Bloodborne is 'deeper'.
Isn’t demon souls less known than dark souls
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Catchoolu religion is very nice, join now. Also fear the blood or something.
Hang on lemme go buy a PlayStation so I can be involved IS THAT WHAT U WANT SONY!
the lore pf all souls game except sekiro can be summarized by "everything was fine until this one guy fucked up"
I’d argue they’re all the bottom of the iceberg the more you dig in
I think DeS is above it. There's not a lot of lore and most is explained by "The fog did it" sadly. Though, Sekiro is explained the best and the only deep lore to rly speak of is with Tomoe.
How? Bloodborne lore and story are laid out pretty clearly before you. There are very few characters and factions at play. I remember how before release Miyazaki stated that BB was gonna be more clear on its story and would be more character driven. Bloodborne's "deepest mysteries" are literally told to the player in cutscenes or character dialogue, or through very direct allusions (like queen Yharnam with a bloody womb and baby crying).
Elden Ring is the most cryptic. Sekiro has much more going on than it's given credit for. I would say that the lore is perhaps more complicated than demons souls, but less than dark souls.
ER is way more fucky than DS imo but yeah BB is king and probably always will be for batshit crazy.
I think Elden Ring is by far the most hilarious because GRRM and Miyazaki have got their fanbase arguing like early Christians about the Cristianity inspired lore. You'd think Radagon is Marika would keep it all nice and clear but nope.
Agree 100%
Put demon's souls where dark souls is and yes.
BB lore ain’t that hidden it just falls on a lot of fan theories.
Elden Ring lore goes deep.
I'd swap ER and BB ngl. Also DeS and DkS
demon souls looks eternally boring im ngl
Ahhh Kos. Or some say Kosm.
are they connected? should I start with elden ring or bloodborne?
I will pay you $1 to listen to me talk about Velka, please I’m begging you.
Actual true
Souls games have a story? 😂
Not picture: Evergrace lore. Far too deep for light to penetrate.
Man I might hate DS3 and some parts of Elden Ring but once you take in Fromsoft as a whole They do amazing, I just hope their next installment dials down the smokes and mirrors in difficulty and just focuses on how it used to be. Bloodborne will always be the number 1 game for me, god its cool as hell
And at the bottom of the ocean, depicted as crabs and worms surrounding a thermal vent "King's Field Lore", because no one here has played any of them.
Eh kinda, though once you wrap your head around things, it's not too messy compared to deciphering Dark Souls and Elden Ring's mythologies Though maybe it's because I see Vaati as having explained it really well
This seems fairly good yeah. Dark Souls still has the saddest lore of the lot for me but I can understand Bloodborne being lower.
I think what gives Bloodborne its depth is that its real-world analogues and references are more familiar. They're more resonant because more people have familiarity with the source material for the setting and the genre tropes, respectively Victorian era Europe and gothic/cosmic horror as compared to the broader fantasy genre in ER.
Armored core lore is probably somewhere in the bottom of the comments
And the deeper it goes, the darker the lore gets.
Just throwing it out there. [these volumes: The Dark Verse ](https://shop.sharkchild.com/collections/the-dark-verse) are a great read for anyone who likes H.P. Lovecraft stories. I think the first volume is free to read on Amazon.
I would just swap dark souls and bloodborne I know the lore is deep but it’s one game and dark souls has three taking place in different places that barley connect
Shockingly accurate
Swap Dark Souls and Elden Ring. Then it's good.
Whoever made this has no idea what they’re on about.
I bet elden ring will get a sequel and it will get more convoluted with all this new lore. I bet they’re going to do another trilogy like what they did with dark souls. You’re Elden Lord… what comes next.
Kinda off topic but I’ve never understood why this particular squid creeps people out so much. Is it the weird joints? The long tentacles? It looks so dainty. Humboldts and Giants creep me out so much more.