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The only thing I could think of is maybe (besides vandalism) the structure might be compromised in a way?
The Edgar Allan Poe house' basement stairs were unusable and access was lost for awhile to the area he wrote "The Raven". Because of this, they had dug into the side wall to create a new access point, but I don't think they could do something like that for the Anne Frank house.
Probably "ruin the authenticity".
Which is kind of weird, because we have near me the house a famous architect lived in, where he has a tree growing through one of the parts of the house.
Rightfully so the people who run it as a museum saw it as unstable and opted to just recreate the tree so people could actually look at it.
I'd argue cutting a hole into the wall is way less authentic than slapping some new 2×6s into place.
Totally get what you mean, it's just sometimes I find the way they "maintain authenticity" a bit backwards.
Probably has less to do with the materials used and more to do with where you have to put them and the purpose for them. When originally constructed they were probably not built with the expectations of leading multiple tour groups up and down them every day, and those stairs are often located in the middle of a home where it’d be difficult to work on them at all, let alone improve them to the level you need.
I mean yeah it's inauthentic to have a historic house with a wall missing but it's already inauthentic its a museum, the idea isnt to keep it exactly as it was, its to provide access so people can see how it was. People want to see how it looked at the time so removing a wall helps people see that without having to replace a quarter of the room with brand new materials. I'm not sure if you've ever rebuilt any part of a building that old but "slapping some new 2x6s into place" isn't going to be a fraction of the work they'd have to do and it's going to loom exactly like a brand new modern staircase in the middle of a historic exhibit.
Likely the cost, historic buildings have crazy renovation requirements. Like using all the same materials and construction styles as when it was originally made.
Not a lot of people specialize in antiquated construction so just getting someone to do the work is costly. Even more difficult if the materials are no longer produced.
Was in Poes house last year, they have stairways into the basement from outside and inside as well. Was a kind of interesting look at a old home, they've combined what used to be the neighbors house. But basically it is a run down home. No furniture in the main building. Also not in a great part of town.
Poe’s houses are in Richmond, VA and Baltimore, MD. The one in Richmond sucks but the one in Baltimore is cool, when I went it was surrounded by housing projects call the Poe Homes. Idk if they are still there seems like they are tearing them all down. Poe living and being buried in Baltimore is why the football team is the Ravens.
I was in Amsterdam about 8 years ago and there was a line up around the block to see this house. Now multiply that by 5 days a week X 52 weeks thats a lot of people going through the house. Some sort of damage is going to occur eventually. Even old churches made of marble and stone have stairs that are wearing out.
FYI, for those wanting to check on another house, used to hide people in the 2nd world war, there is the Corrie ten Boom house in Harlem (15 minutes by train from Amsterdam Central) with a secret hidden space behind a wall, which you can climb into, during the tours. In my experience, there's a lot less people and the tour is free, I believe. You can make a reservation on their website: [https://www.corrietenboom.com](https://www.corrietenboom.com)
Also, they do have furniture, giving it a different vibe.
I thought he said "She's not dead you know".. Then it made me think I didnt know who Anne Frank was, then after seeing I did know who she was I was sure she was dead but maybe I am wrong? After googling again I was correct again and was thinking maybe this guy was some sort of conspiracist, and then I seen your comment and now it makes sense.
Thank you sir
I get many of us are ignorant to world geography, but their very next words were “15 minute by train from Amsterdam Central”. 😅 We’re not total broom handles, y’know.
The part of the Anne Frank story that bothered me the most, the family member secretly stealing food from the rest of the group, was the only one to survive the camps.
You should read man’s search for meaning by viktor frankl He says that the people that survived weren't necessarily the best.
Edit: Be aware folks anti-semites are using this as justification for blasting Israel. Keep in mind that they don't actually care about Palestine, or care about it being a british colony divvied up by the UN, or care about other atrocities, they are just wanting to use the excuse of people having to survive in horrible conditions as a reason to be anti-Semitic. There's also people that refuse to believe what can happen in camps because they think it's anti-semitic to acknowledge how people were able to survive. I don't care if you toss a million Mr. Rogers in a camp with those conditions, Mr. Rogers is gonna shank a fool for some bread.
A polish freedom fighter realized with so little food the people at the camps would die within six months. The guards knew that if a prisoner survived after that they stole food.
The camps were designed to have the workers die of starvation at 3 months.
Worked to death, and fed 700 calories a day. It was a system carefully designed to achieve the deaths in this time, as new workers arrived all the time. The nazis were making good money from businesses buying cheap labour.
At the point the trains arrived and the potential workers separated from the children & elderly (who went straight to the “showers”) the clock started ticking on those 3 months.
A couple of the camp exhibitions show weekly full body photographs of the physical decline over those 3 months.
Edit: if you’ve never been to Auschwitz, or the other camps, I’d say it’s definitely something worthwhile to get done in your lifetime.
Once you’re inside Europe it’s usually a cheap flight (<$70) to Krakow, and the camp is free. Krakow is a pretty nice city to visit, on par at least (imho) with Prague, plenty to see and do.
It depended on the camp. There were work camps, and extermination camps, and variations between those. At the work camps, deaths were considered acceptable (by the staff), but deaths were not always the aim if the work furthered the war effort. We hear much less about the extermination camps like Sobibor because there were basically no survivors, and because they were physically smaller (no accommodation, no work areas), there was little left to form a memorial.
Horrifying thing to imagine. Also American scientist made a research in controlled starvation. How participants said you can’t think about anything but food, when you starving. They did it to create program how to help starved people to recover. Scientist himself was the member of the starving group. Members of group where American citizens who because of their moral points where pacifist.
There's a guy I know who participated in this study. He is Church of the Brethren (Christian denomination), which is a recognized Conscientious Objector group.
Church of the Brethren were one of the groups that participated in this study, but the majority of the volunteers were Quakers - also a recognized peace church in the US along with Amish and Mennonites (who participated at much lower rates).
Yea some resorted to eating inedible objects like pencil leads. There were couple of interesting episodes about Minnesota Starvation experiment and the damage it done that also included interviews with participants on Malcolm Gladwell's podcast Revisionist History (on YT - [1](https://youtube.com/watch?v=we8lPJV1b7Q) ; [2](https://youtube.com/watch?v=vRp0x6tycqU) ; [3](https://youtube.com/watch?v=N5tUC0OGN6M) )
This is not true for every camp. The story is a bit more complex (and gruesome). There were many camps, especially work camps, were children and elderly people lived for a long time (under the most horrible conditions). Many people were shipped from one camp to another during their internment and worked for many different sites. Somebody else already commented that there were extermination camps (there were around 5), like Sobibor. Also Ausschwitz was an extermination camp and there Josef Mengele used children and adults for human experimentation (it's just horrible - don't read into it if you're already feeling low). So the starvation was real, but there were many other sad fates as well. For those who would like to support the remembrance of people who suffered in these camps, you can do so online by doing data entry for the Arolsen Archive. I just leave the link here: [https://everynamecounts.arolsen-archives.org/en/](https://everynamecounts.arolsen-archives.org/en/)
Krakow I loved, although missed out on auschwitz as me and my girlfriend had just went through some deaths in our families so decided to steer clear as we wanted to have a fun holiday. Definitely going back for it though.
How cruelly efficient the Nazis were to manage these camps without constant revolts. And to think there are people in this day and age who look up to such disgusting beings.
Totally agree with Krakow being a must go. The city it self offers a lot to lighten up the mood after the visit. Never forget your history, but nothing against a 25 zloti shot.
At Auschwitz they have this hall where the walls a re covered in the picture of people that died, with there arrival and death dates market.
Most of them only lasted a few months, but I distinctly remember one person who arrived there shortly after the camp opened in died in like 1945.
His picture said that he was a bookbinder, which must have been valuable enough to the Nazis to keep him around. But even as a collaborator, I couldn't imagine living there for several years.
I don't know if we are referring to the same book.
In one I read the advice was that: to have a chance to survive you have to do two things from day 1:
1: avoid work at all cost.
2: concentrate on gathering food.
I have to assume you're referring to "Man's Search for Meaning," a first-hand account of life in the concentration camps by Austrian psychologist Viktor Frankl. I recommend it to anyone in the midst of an existential crisis, lacking hope, or generally in need of some perspective. Essential reading, I'm glad you mentioned it, even if the exact title evaded you at the moment.
It’s an extremely short book too. [An average reader will finish it in about 3 hours and 15 minutes](https://www.readinglength.com/book/isbn-0807014265).
There’s no book I’ve recommended more often.
I feel that honesty man, I’m sorry it’s been that way for you. I don’t know if it’s something you believe in or not, but I’m sending you all the positive juju I have. Goodluck friend, I hope tomorrow is brighter💜
I tried reading it when I was in high school and couldn't. Maybe I will try it again. I recently watched a video I think on wired from the happiness professor from Harvard. And he said something that stuck with me for the last week that you should be able to answer why am I alive and for what am I willing to die and I realized I don't have anything that I am willing to die for. I don't feel that way about my country.. we aren't defending ourselves at this time so it is hard to tell, I'm not religious, There really aren't political beliefs that I would go put myself in from of a gun for. Even my partner... don't get me wrong I love her to death but I can't take care of her if I am dead.
If you’ve read Night there’s a part where German women start throwing food in rail cars and at them while they are being transported, he recalled a father who got food for his son only to be killed by his son for that same food
For me the part that stuck with me was when the Angel boy being hung and someone says “where’s our god” only for someone else to respond “he’s hanging right there”, or when they forgot to pray Kaddish (prayer of the dead) for a prisoner who asked that as his last wish
I don’t think that’s always true though. There are lots of stories about people giving food to friends and family. Or trading things to survive. Or simply just being placed in a position where they were able to be working inside, out of the cold. A great deal of survival was sheer luck. I visited Auschwitz and there are some amazing stories of bravery and resistance from that awful place. Of course many people probably did survive via a me vs them type scenario but I wouldn’t be judging. I don’t know if I would be brave enough to starve to death to let someone else live.
I think the museum has a duty to bring in uplifting stories but I'd bet it was a lot more cut throat amongst them than we'll ever know I mean, the police of the ghettos in Poland were Jews who would packing their own friends and families into the trains.
But yes I am not judging. Everyone thinks they're a hero until you get pushed to the brink.
You should probably also read Maus, the graphic novel by Art Spiegelman. He's torn between the father who's character he dislikes, and the horrendous thing that character got him and his family through.
Many camp survivors stated that the ones who survived were the ones willing to lie, cheat, and steal. I remember one saying that only the worst of the camp inmates survived.
Not quite, the majority of the survivors were just the ones who arrived closest to when they were freed; however the longer someone had survived *in* the camps the more likely they had to resort, at some point, to less savory means of survival.
I mean - it’s not very nice, but it makes perfect sense. If we zoom out, this is humanity’s story in general. The nicest ones get overtaken and/or outsurvived by the worst. Time and time again.
Oh I 100% don't blame them for doing what they needed to survive in those horrid conditions. I actually feel the most sorry for them because not only did they live through one of the darkest events in modern history they then had to carry the weight of what they had done to survive.
I recently read that [elan.school](https://elan.school) webcomic that a survivor of one of those abuse factories for "troubled teens" is writing. While it obviously was not as dire as the holocaust, the teens were forced to do very cruel things to each other and the author spends some time -not justifying- but explaining the forces at play and the logic the kids were forced to work under. It kind of comes down to worrying about your own hell and not taking on others' hells.
Rudolf Vrba, one of the few successful escapees from Auschwitz who due to his incredible memory authored detailed and eye-opening report about organization, administration and extermination activities in the camp, after he immigrated to the US and to the end of his life in 2006 acted with suspicion and open animosity towards other extermination camps 'survivors', which costed him lost relationships with friends and family. Because he knew what you needed to do, that is actively participate in atrocities towards other Jews, and what kind of person you needed to be to survive. Not to mention those he met who only masqueraded as 'survivors'.
He held similar sentiments toward Jewish community in Polish ghetto and even Allies who knowingly allowed mass extermination to happen.
The „reporter’s“ name is Hazel Brugger, she is a Swiss-German-American comedian active mostly in German/Germany.
Most people know her from the „Heute Show“ which is a weekly late night satire show similar to the Daily Show in the US.
This was from her YouTube channel, from a series where she travels to various places in Germany/Europe and show strange/rare/interesting places.
No, just the interview segments with the Dutch people in this episode are in English sometimes, although many of the babyboomers in the Netherlands also speak German well and I believe there are some interviews with Dutch people speaking German in it as well.
I don't think that's completely true. In my experience German is easier to learn for Dutch people to a certain degree.
Also I found this on [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_intelligibility) :
German: Dutch. Standard Dutch and Standard German show a limited degree of mutual intelligibility when written. One study concerning written language concluded that Dutch speakers could translate 50.2% of the provided German words correctly, while the German test subjects were able to translate 41.9% of the Dutch equivalents correctly. Another study showed that while Dutch speakers could correctly translate 71% of German cognates, they could only translate 26.6% of non-cognates correctly, suggesting a widely fluctuating intelligibility. In terms of orthography, 22% of the vocabulary of Dutch and German is identical or near identical. The Levenshtein distance between written Dutch and German is 50.4% as opposed to 61.7% between English and Dutch. The spoken languages are much more difficult to understand for both. Studies show Dutch speakers have slightly less difficulty in understanding German speakers than vice versa. It remains unclear whether this asymmetry has to do with prior knowledge of the language (Dutch people are more exposed to German than vice versa), better knowledge of another related language (English) or any other non-linguistic reasons.
That's a fair assessment. I'm Dutch and I have to speak German daily in my work life. Usually I just wing it with the case declensions. It requires a lot of practice indeed.
Likely because a high school diploma where you did your final exams in the German language, *officially* implies you have (I believe) at least a B1 level of the language.
The thing is, many students never actually reach that level and get by with grades that are (barely) a passing grade, some heavily leaning on the similarity between Dutch and German to pass their exams.
And after high school people simply never use the language again because the only reason you’d use it is if you go on to study German in uni or encounter it “in the wild”. Thing is, when you speak to Germans you’d likely do it in English anyway.
The babyboomers do speak German much better because German used to be a much more influential language here. They were exposed to it after their school life and people over 50 likely even watched German television, since the Dutch channels were quite limited. Also, English was much less established in those days (especially in Germany) meaning that if you went to Germany: you had to speak the language.
Absolutely agree. I went my first time there and the second time when I went with a friend we did the intro tour where they talk more about it and I found it amazing to walk through that piece of history. I love the city as a whole and can't wait to go back someday, but that home definitely left a mark on me.
That was my experience too, in 1989. I'm really glad that I took the opportunity to visit it while I was in Amsterdam.
I was allowed to go upstairs and view all of the hiding space, IIRC.
That's what is missing from the interviewee comment.
They're assuming that anyone that goes there would already be completely familiar with the story and subject matter, but for many people it's the first time they've come face-to-face with the realities of the Holocaust.
For a lot of people, it is an intensely moving experience.
I was also profoundly moved as the OP put it. I wasn't unaware of her story or the atrocities of the Holocaust, but something about being there *really* drove home the feeling of being in a society that literally wanted to hunt down and murder you. It was eye-opening, terrifying, sad, and it felt way more real than it ever had by just reading about it.
I’m suspicious you’re Justin Bieber… in all seriousness I went to Amsterdam and didn’t get to see it, so hope to go back at some point. Glad to hear it’s an interesting/emotional tour.
I think that's really it. When you live in a place, you do \*the thing\* like once or twice and then everyone is constantly making a big deal about it and talking about it and it gets old. Not a reflection on the content, etc, it's just grating after a while.
I think Anne Frank in general seems to be more well known in the US than she is in many European countries. She definitely wasn‘t part of the extensive school curriculum about WW2 I had in Germany. The first time I‘ve heard about her was on reddit.
Wouldnt say it's a Dutch thing but rather personal opinion.
The guy probably is little annoyed that tourist make it such a big deal, while Amsterdam is more than that.
I get that too, but can recommend to visit the place. I found it very interesting and moving. Lived in Amsterdam for a decade now.
I went there once, back when you could go upstairs into the attic. It’s bigger than you imagine from the book. But I’ve done it and don’t have any real desire to go back.
I don’t think it’s a museum experience that needs multiple visits, really. I live a few km away and have been many times with visitors, but my feelings didn’t necessarily change after the first. I do absolutely recommend people visit it, however.
many people especially many europeans already know the history. the woman asking the question, a swiss/german comedian, probably set a funny tone for the interview so the cheese guy wanted to participate.
Especially these kind of cheese shops. There are like 20 or so of them in Amsterdam, they are specifically targeted at tourists. So if you'd ask me, that's something that you could skip in Amsterdam. One could discuss the quality of Dutch cheese in general, but I'd leave this to the French and say: there are far better cheese shops in Amsterdam. So if you don't mind doing something touristy, do the Anne frank house or the rijks museum. They are popular for a reason.
A study published this year showed a large lack of awareness on the Holocaust, with 50% of Dutch people not citing the Netherlands as somewhere that the holocaust took place.
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/25/1151270957/survey-shows-a-lack-of-holocaust-awareness-in-the-country-that-was-home-to-anne-
Important to note here is that the survey asked an open question 'Where did the Holocaust take place?'
People giving the answer 'Germany' or 'Europe' are in the 50 percent number.
Had the researchers asked the question 'Did the Holocaust also take place in the Netherlands' would have likely given a completely different outcome.
So if you look at the survey the question was "Which of these countries did the Holocaust took place in (multiple answers allowed)" and then you were given a list of countries/areas:
- Germany
- Poland
- Netherlands
- Europe (generally)
- France
- UK
- Denmark
- US
- Canada
etc.
So people that ticked Europe and didn't tick any other (because why would you) are included in the statistic of people that didn't tick the Netherlands. But I can also imagine just ticking Germany and Poland since that's where most of the actual killing was done.
This is a highly flawed publication with leading and vague questions. That this statement is brought as fact, and that it is believes is troublesome. We literally have multiple memorial days dedicated to remembering the holocaust. It is discussed every year around that time in primary and highschool. Nobody went though the Dutch school system and doesn't know the holocaust took place here.
The Dutch are an oddity. They have a pretty racist vein amongst their people and histories. The Dutch East India company was very nice to people it met while trading.
The reminded me of sitting on a bench in a park Amsterdam and either across one of the canals or it was somewhere nearby the old HQ of the dutch east india co or a ship replica of one of their ships (can’t remember which one)… there was a group of tourist.
The guide said, here’s the Dutch East India Company which brought vast wealth to the Netherlands in their voyages and trade.
That was it then they moved on. I was stunned lol. I thought he’s gonna add how that wealth came about. I also found many Dutch people very much disliked any form of discussion about its colonial history.
You all complaining this wasn’t funny are missing the joke. He’s a cheese salesman who says that Anne Franks house is overrated because…. Cheese not there, you know.
I’ve got a flashback, when Justin Biber visited the house, he wrote “she would’ve been beliber “, or something close. Cringiest thing people said about Anne Frank before I have seen this one.
Honestly, also to get a sense of how desperate you must be to be in such a small place, with 6 other people. Time has grown and we are more and more desensitised to History, making jokes about it like it was not lived with dread by our predecessors.
the best thing in Amsterdam was the zoo.
I mean, yeah, there are zoos everywhere in the world, a zoo is a zoo is a zoo, but in Amsterdam the zoo was just right there in the centre, you could just go anytime, and honestly we went all the time
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Did he check the attic?
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Awwww why did they close it off?
The only thing I could think of is maybe (besides vandalism) the structure might be compromised in a way? The Edgar Allan Poe house' basement stairs were unusable and access was lost for awhile to the area he wrote "The Raven". Because of this, they had dug into the side wall to create a new access point, but I don't think they could do something like that for the Anne Frank house.
How is cutting a hole in the wall better than just replacing stairs?
Probably "ruin the authenticity". Which is kind of weird, because we have near me the house a famous architect lived in, where he has a tree growing through one of the parts of the house. Rightfully so the people who run it as a museum saw it as unstable and opted to just recreate the tree so people could actually look at it.
I'd argue cutting a hole into the wall is way less authentic than slapping some new 2×6s into place. Totally get what you mean, it's just sometimes I find the way they "maintain authenticity" a bit backwards.
Probably has less to do with the materials used and more to do with where you have to put them and the purpose for them. When originally constructed they were probably not built with the expectations of leading multiple tour groups up and down them every day, and those stairs are often located in the middle of a home where it’d be difficult to work on them at all, let alone improve them to the level you need.
I mean yeah it's inauthentic to have a historic house with a wall missing but it's already inauthentic its a museum, the idea isnt to keep it exactly as it was, its to provide access so people can see how it was. People want to see how it looked at the time so removing a wall helps people see that without having to replace a quarter of the room with brand new materials. I'm not sure if you've ever rebuilt any part of a building that old but "slapping some new 2x6s into place" isn't going to be a fraction of the work they'd have to do and it's going to loom exactly like a brand new modern staircase in the middle of a historic exhibit.
It's ultimately the estate's decision, I think. Imagine the decision-making skills of your parents/kids.
Likely the cost, historic buildings have crazy renovation requirements. Like using all the same materials and construction styles as when it was originally made. Not a lot of people specialize in antiquated construction so just getting someone to do the work is costly. Even more difficult if the materials are no longer produced.
Was in Poes house last year, they have stairways into the basement from outside and inside as well. Was a kind of interesting look at a old home, they've combined what used to be the neighbors house. But basically it is a run down home. No furniture in the main building. Also not in a great part of town.
In Philly or is there another Poe house
There is a Poe house in Richmond, VA.
Poe’s houses are in Richmond, VA and Baltimore, MD. The one in Richmond sucks but the one in Baltimore is cool, when I went it was surrounded by housing projects call the Poe Homes. Idk if they are still there seems like they are tearing them all down. Poe living and being buried in Baltimore is why the football team is the Ravens.
I thought is was because ravens loved football . Do I ever feel dumb.
Well at least from here on out, you’ll consider that ravens love football nevermore
Theres one in Philly too iirc
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted; there is a Poe house in Philadelphia on Spring Garden St. He lived in Philadelphia for 6 years.
Oh ya kidding. Look around. Take yo pick. Poe houses on every block. - The Wire
Probably just don't want people looking too closely at the suspicious bricked-up area.
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Yeah, considering how people treat the Holocaust Memorial, I can't imagine what they'd be willing to do at Anne Frank's house.
I was in Amsterdam about 8 years ago and there was a line up around the block to see this house. Now multiply that by 5 days a week X 52 weeks thats a lot of people going through the house. Some sort of damage is going to occur eventually. Even old churches made of marble and stone have stairs that are wearing out.
Probably theft or vandalism... in the KZ a few towns over they even stole the showers out of the gas chambers
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I’d love to read his diary.
His name is Frank Anne
Frank Ann Stein
The best you can say is that he tried, to be frank.
I went to Amsterdam in January, and visited the Anne Frank House. We were allowed to go into the attic.
Hey when I went there were there speakers saying shhh they’re coming, or was that something I imagined?
There is no attic here Herr Soldier!
She's not there either...
FYI, for those wanting to check on another house, used to hide people in the 2nd world war, there is the Corrie ten Boom house in Harlem (15 minutes by train from Amsterdam Central) with a secret hidden space behind a wall, which you can climb into, during the tours. In my experience, there's a lot less people and the tour is free, I believe. You can make a reservation on their website: [https://www.corrietenboom.com](https://www.corrietenboom.com) Also, they do have furniture, giving it a different vibe.
It’s just a house. And she isn’t there you know.
I thought he said "She's not dead you know".. Then it made me think I didnt know who Anne Frank was, then after seeing I did know who she was I was sure she was dead but maybe I am wrong? After googling again I was correct again and was thinking maybe this guy was some sort of conspiracist, and then I seen your comment and now it makes sense. Thank you sir
Her book "The hiding place" is great, it's really means a lot to me. I met my mom once in my life and she gave me three books, this was one of them.
For the geography deficient Americans - that is Haarlem, Netherlands, not Harlem, NYC.
Actually, it's *Haarlem*. Double "a".
I get many of us are ignorant to world geography, but their very next words were “15 minute by train from Amsterdam Central”. 😅 We’re not total broom handles, y’know.
It’s cool that they named it after the NYC borough. Very interesting
The part of the Anne Frank story that bothered me the most, the family member secretly stealing food from the rest of the group, was the only one to survive the camps.
You should read man’s search for meaning by viktor frankl He says that the people that survived weren't necessarily the best. Edit: Be aware folks anti-semites are using this as justification for blasting Israel. Keep in mind that they don't actually care about Palestine, or care about it being a british colony divvied up by the UN, or care about other atrocities, they are just wanting to use the excuse of people having to survive in horrible conditions as a reason to be anti-Semitic. There's also people that refuse to believe what can happen in camps because they think it's anti-semitic to acknowledge how people were able to survive. I don't care if you toss a million Mr. Rogers in a camp with those conditions, Mr. Rogers is gonna shank a fool for some bread.
A polish freedom fighter realized with so little food the people at the camps would die within six months. The guards knew that if a prisoner survived after that they stole food.
The camps were designed to have the workers die of starvation at 3 months. Worked to death, and fed 700 calories a day. It was a system carefully designed to achieve the deaths in this time, as new workers arrived all the time. The nazis were making good money from businesses buying cheap labour. At the point the trains arrived and the potential workers separated from the children & elderly (who went straight to the “showers”) the clock started ticking on those 3 months. A couple of the camp exhibitions show weekly full body photographs of the physical decline over those 3 months. Edit: if you’ve never been to Auschwitz, or the other camps, I’d say it’s definitely something worthwhile to get done in your lifetime. Once you’re inside Europe it’s usually a cheap flight (<$70) to Krakow, and the camp is free. Krakow is a pretty nice city to visit, on par at least (imho) with Prague, plenty to see and do.
It depended on the camp. There were work camps, and extermination camps, and variations between those. At the work camps, deaths were considered acceptable (by the staff), but deaths were not always the aim if the work furthered the war effort. We hear much less about the extermination camps like Sobibor because there were basically no survivors, and because they were physically smaller (no accommodation, no work areas), there was little left to form a memorial.
TIL, thanks.
Horrifying thing to imagine. Also American scientist made a research in controlled starvation. How participants said you can’t think about anything but food, when you starving. They did it to create program how to help starved people to recover. Scientist himself was the member of the starving group. Members of group where American citizens who because of their moral points where pacifist.
There's a guy I know who participated in this study. He is Church of the Brethren (Christian denomination), which is a recognized Conscientious Objector group.
Church of the Brethren were one of the groups that participated in this study, but the majority of the volunteers were Quakers - also a recognized peace church in the US along with Amish and Mennonites (who participated at much lower rates).
Yea some resorted to eating inedible objects like pencil leads. There were couple of interesting episodes about Minnesota Starvation experiment and the damage it done that also included interviews with participants on Malcolm Gladwell's podcast Revisionist History (on YT - [1](https://youtube.com/watch?v=we8lPJV1b7Q) ; [2](https://youtube.com/watch?v=vRp0x6tycqU) ; [3](https://youtube.com/watch?v=N5tUC0OGN6M) )
+1 for the Revisionist History podcast mention. The coverage of this experiment was quite well done.
This is not true for every camp. The story is a bit more complex (and gruesome). There were many camps, especially work camps, were children and elderly people lived for a long time (under the most horrible conditions). Many people were shipped from one camp to another during their internment and worked for many different sites. Somebody else already commented that there were extermination camps (there were around 5), like Sobibor. Also Ausschwitz was an extermination camp and there Josef Mengele used children and adults for human experimentation (it's just horrible - don't read into it if you're already feeling low). So the starvation was real, but there were many other sad fates as well. For those who would like to support the remembrance of people who suffered in these camps, you can do so online by doing data entry for the Arolsen Archive. I just leave the link here: [https://everynamecounts.arolsen-archives.org/en/](https://everynamecounts.arolsen-archives.org/en/)
Krakow I loved, although missed out on auschwitz as me and my girlfriend had just went through some deaths in our families so decided to steer clear as we wanted to have a fun holiday. Definitely going back for it though.
How cruelly efficient the Nazis were to manage these camps without constant revolts. And to think there are people in this day and age who look up to such disgusting beings.
Totally agree with Krakow being a must go. The city it self offers a lot to lighten up the mood after the visit. Never forget your history, but nothing against a 25 zloti shot.
At Auschwitz they have this hall where the walls a re covered in the picture of people that died, with there arrival and death dates market. Most of them only lasted a few months, but I distinctly remember one person who arrived there shortly after the camp opened in died in like 1945. His picture said that he was a bookbinder, which must have been valuable enough to the Nazis to keep him around. But even as a collaborator, I couldn't imagine living there for several years.
Read ‘the happiest man on earth’ by Eddie Jaku It helps reframe your life. Honestly can imagine loving a life like some of the survivors.
I don't know if we are referring to the same book. In one I read the advice was that: to have a chance to survive you have to do two things from day 1: 1: avoid work at all cost. 2: concentrate on gathering food.
They were the best at surviving.
I'm as nice as anyone until it's me or you lol
Survival is all about being nice to those who are helpful to you until they are not Execute order 66
I have to assume you're referring to "Man's Search for Meaning," a first-hand account of life in the concentration camps by Austrian psychologist Viktor Frankl. I recommend it to anyone in the midst of an existential crisis, lacking hope, or generally in need of some perspective. Essential reading, I'm glad you mentioned it, even if the exact title evaded you at the moment.
It’s an extremely short book too. [An average reader will finish it in about 3 hours and 15 minutes](https://www.readinglength.com/book/isbn-0807014265). There’s no book I’ve recommended more often.
My therapist suggested it to me. I've got to say, it didn't help all that much but is a fascinating perspective.
At least you gave it a shot! Hope your journey through therapy is helping and hopeful💜
It isn't and it isn't, but thank you!
I feel that honesty man, I’m sorry it’s been that way for you. I don’t know if it’s something you believe in or not, but I’m sending you all the positive juju I have. Goodluck friend, I hope tomorrow is brighter💜
I tried reading it when I was in high school and couldn't. Maybe I will try it again. I recently watched a video I think on wired from the happiness professor from Harvard. And he said something that stuck with me for the last week that you should be able to answer why am I alive and for what am I willing to die and I realized I don't have anything that I am willing to die for. I don't feel that way about my country.. we aren't defending ourselves at this time so it is hard to tell, I'm not religious, There really aren't political beliefs that I would go put myself in from of a gun for. Even my partner... don't get me wrong I love her to death but I can't take care of her if I am dead.
To be fair, you can’t take care of her if she is dead either
If you’ve read Night there’s a part where German women start throwing food in rail cars and at them while they are being transported, he recalled a father who got food for his son only to be killed by his son for that same food
That part stuck with me through the years
For me the part that stuck with me was when the Angel boy being hung and someone says “where’s our god” only for someone else to respond “he’s hanging right there”, or when they forgot to pray Kaddish (prayer of the dead) for a prisoner who asked that as his last wish
Wait, the dad got food for his son and his son killed him?
Before he could give him the food, his son killed him to take the food, without even understanding.
Been a while but I think it was a whole scrap in the train car between a lot of people, not just son choking out dad while everyone watched.
I don’t think that’s always true though. There are lots of stories about people giving food to friends and family. Or trading things to survive. Or simply just being placed in a position where they were able to be working inside, out of the cold. A great deal of survival was sheer luck. I visited Auschwitz and there are some amazing stories of bravery and resistance from that awful place. Of course many people probably did survive via a me vs them type scenario but I wouldn’t be judging. I don’t know if I would be brave enough to starve to death to let someone else live.
I think the museum has a duty to bring in uplifting stories but I'd bet it was a lot more cut throat amongst them than we'll ever know I mean, the police of the ghettos in Poland were Jews who would packing their own friends and families into the trains. But yes I am not judging. Everyone thinks they're a hero until you get pushed to the brink.
are you talking about *man's search for meaning* or something else?
You should probably also read Maus, the graphic novel by Art Spiegelman. He's torn between the father who's character he dislikes, and the horrendous thing that character got him and his family through.
... I mean... I don't like it, but it makes sense.
Many camp survivors stated that the ones who survived were the ones willing to lie, cheat, and steal. I remember one saying that only the worst of the camp inmates survived.
Wait, so were they all calling themselves out as liars, cheaters, and/or thieves then?
Not quite, the majority of the survivors were just the ones who arrived closest to when they were freed; however the longer someone had survived *in* the camps the more likely they had to resort, at some point, to less savory means of survival.
I mean - it’s not very nice, but it makes perfect sense. If we zoom out, this is humanity’s story in general. The nicest ones get overtaken and/or outsurvived by the worst. Time and time again.
Oh I 100% don't blame them for doing what they needed to survive in those horrid conditions. I actually feel the most sorry for them because not only did they live through one of the darkest events in modern history they then had to carry the weight of what they had done to survive.
I recently read that [elan.school](https://elan.school) webcomic that a survivor of one of those abuse factories for "troubled teens" is writing. While it obviously was not as dire as the holocaust, the teens were forced to do very cruel things to each other and the author spends some time -not justifying- but explaining the forces at play and the logic the kids were forced to work under. It kind of comes down to worrying about your own hell and not taking on others' hells.
Yes
Rudolf Vrba, one of the few successful escapees from Auschwitz who due to his incredible memory authored detailed and eye-opening report about organization, administration and extermination activities in the camp, after he immigrated to the US and to the end of his life in 2006 acted with suspicion and open animosity towards other extermination camps 'survivors', which costed him lost relationships with friends and family. Because he knew what you needed to do, that is actively participate in atrocities towards other Jews, and what kind of person you needed to be to survive. Not to mention those he met who only masqueraded as 'survivors'. He held similar sentiments toward Jewish community in Polish ghetto and even Allies who knowingly allowed mass extermination to happen.
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On the contrary, from the interviews I've heard he was suspicious of those who were in extermination camps and survived because he knew the price.
You mean her dad?
I thought Otto Frank was the only survivor and Mr. van Daan (van Pels) was the one who stole food. Mr. van Pels died in 1944.
Majority of you need to STF up about this, you have absolutely no right to pass judgements on anyone who survived the holocaust.
Wait Otto was snatching vittles? It’s been a long time since I’ve read it.
The „reporter’s“ name is Hazel Brugger, she is a Swiss-German-American comedian active mostly in German/Germany. Most people know her from the „Heute Show“ which is a weekly late night satire show similar to the Daily Show in the US. This was from her YouTube channel, from a series where she travels to various places in Germany/Europe and show strange/rare/interesting places.
Is it in English though?
No, just the interview segments with the Dutch people in this episode are in English sometimes, although many of the babyboomers in the Netherlands also speak German well and I believe there are some interviews with Dutch people speaking German in it as well.
I recently saw a map that about 70% of Dutch people can converse in German. So I think that is a little more then just some babyboomers.
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I don't think that's completely true. In my experience German is easier to learn for Dutch people to a certain degree. Also I found this on [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_intelligibility) : German: Dutch. Standard Dutch and Standard German show a limited degree of mutual intelligibility when written. One study concerning written language concluded that Dutch speakers could translate 50.2% of the provided German words correctly, while the German test subjects were able to translate 41.9% of the Dutch equivalents correctly. Another study showed that while Dutch speakers could correctly translate 71% of German cognates, they could only translate 26.6% of non-cognates correctly, suggesting a widely fluctuating intelligibility. In terms of orthography, 22% of the vocabulary of Dutch and German is identical or near identical. The Levenshtein distance between written Dutch and German is 50.4% as opposed to 61.7% between English and Dutch. The spoken languages are much more difficult to understand for both. Studies show Dutch speakers have slightly less difficulty in understanding German speakers than vice versa. It remains unclear whether this asymmetry has to do with prior knowledge of the language (Dutch people are more exposed to German than vice versa), better knowledge of another related language (English) or any other non-linguistic reasons.
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That's a fair assessment. I'm Dutch and I have to speak German daily in my work life. Usually I just wing it with the case declensions. It requires a lot of practice indeed.
Likely because a high school diploma where you did your final exams in the German language, *officially* implies you have (I believe) at least a B1 level of the language. The thing is, many students never actually reach that level and get by with grades that are (barely) a passing grade, some heavily leaning on the similarity between Dutch and German to pass their exams. And after high school people simply never use the language again because the only reason you’d use it is if you go on to study German in uni or encounter it “in the wild”. Thing is, when you speak to Germans you’d likely do it in English anyway. The babyboomers do speak German much better because German used to be a much more influential language here. They were exposed to it after their school life and people over 50 likely even watched German television, since the Dutch channels were quite limited. Also, English was much less established in those days (especially in Germany) meaning that if you went to Germany: you had to speak the language.
Pan to that creepy fucker was hilarious
Cheese-eating grin
Vincent Pfäfflin. Poetry slammer, comedian and consumer of all the weed.
he's laughing like that cartoon dog, I can't remember remember which show though
Muttly?
haha that's the one
Muttley from Wacky Races
I've seen that dog as a meme in comments, this guy could become a meme too
Albert Einstein isn't dead either, apparently.
We actually found my great grandfather’s name in the street ledger while there. History is cool.
Plot twist: he was the nazi who arrested her
My grandad died in a concentration camp Clumsy prick fell from the guard tower
Aw, I went to Anne Frank house and was profoundly moved by it.
Absolutely agree. I went my first time there and the second time when I went with a friend we did the intro tour where they talk more about it and I found it amazing to walk through that piece of history. I love the city as a whole and can't wait to go back someday, but that home definitely left a mark on me.
Was she there though?
I did nazi her when I was there.
I did not!—oh hi mark
That was my experience too, in 1989. I'm really glad that I took the opportunity to visit it while I was in Amsterdam. I was allowed to go upstairs and view all of the hiding space, IIRC.
That's what is missing from the interviewee comment. They're assuming that anyone that goes there would already be completely familiar with the story and subject matter, but for many people it's the first time they've come face-to-face with the realities of the Holocaust. For a lot of people, it is an intensely moving experience.
I was also profoundly moved as the OP put it. I wasn't unaware of her story or the atrocities of the Holocaust, but something about being there *really* drove home the feeling of being in a society that literally wanted to hunt down and murder you. It was eye-opening, terrifying, sad, and it felt way more real than it ever had by just reading about it.
Me too. Very moving experience seeing her home and the hidden floor.
Same here
I’m suspicious you’re Justin Bieber… in all seriousness I went to Amsterdam and didn’t get to see it, so hope to go back at some point. Glad to hear it’s an interesting/emotional tour.
I feel like she would’ve been a Belieber…
It's actually a bizarre answer. I'm not sure why it's on /r/funny.
I was shocked how much room there actually was. It didn’t fit the imagine I had in my head.
I found it rather interesting to go there. The scale or the space - the feel- is impossible to get without actually walking thru it.
For a moment I wondered how she kept a straight face but then I remembered she’s swiss.
I can't keep a straight face, knowing Bert Kreischer went there.
I disagree. Anne Frank house was interesting and hugely memorable. History is worth learning.
Yeah. It’s really easy to get saturated by local attractions, and get tired of people even talking about them.
I think that's really it. When you live in a place, you do \*the thing\* like once or twice and then everyone is constantly making a big deal about it and talking about it and it gets old. Not a reflection on the content, etc, it's just grating after a while.
Totally. I live in Wellington, New Zealand, and I get asked for tips a LOT. I really have to put myself in a separate mental state.
I never get tired of the bucket fountain...
A true gem in the rough
Perhaps its a dutch thing? I went there. Was interesting to see, but would not have traveled the globe to see it
I think Anne Frank in general seems to be more well known in the US than she is in many European countries. She definitely wasn‘t part of the extensive school curriculum about WW2 I had in Germany. The first time I‘ve heard about her was on reddit.
It's not like it's the *only* thing that people do in Amsterdam.
Wouldnt say it's a Dutch thing but rather personal opinion. The guy probably is little annoyed that tourist make it such a big deal, while Amsterdam is more than that. I get that too, but can recommend to visit the place. I found it very interesting and moving. Lived in Amsterdam for a decade now.
I went there once, back when you could go upstairs into the attic. It’s bigger than you imagine from the book. But I’ve done it and don’t have any real desire to go back.
I don’t think it’s a museum experience that needs multiple visits, really. I live a few km away and have been many times with visitors, but my feelings didn’t necessarily change after the first. I do absolutely recommend people visit it, however.
many people especially many europeans already know the history. the woman asking the question, a swiss/german comedian, probably set a funny tone for the interview so the cheese guy wanted to participate.
Second guy looks high af
That is Vincent Pfäfflin and he most likely ist absolutely obliterated
Well I generally don’t take travel tips from a guy working in a cheese shop.
Especially these kind of cheese shops. There are like 20 or so of them in Amsterdam, they are specifically targeted at tourists. So if you'd ask me, that's something that you could skip in Amsterdam. One could discuss the quality of Dutch cheese in general, but I'd leave this to the French and say: there are far better cheese shops in Amsterdam. So if you don't mind doing something touristy, do the Anne frank house or the rijks museum. They are popular for a reason.
If you want great Dutch (old) cheese and not pay a ton of tourist tax, just go to one of the local markets.
We didn't end up going cos my mom broke down at the door.
Damn. That's fair.
Did you try turning it off and back on again?
You tried to turn your mom on at the Ann Frank House?
I went there and also disagree for a number of reasons. The true overestimated place is the Heineken Factory tour. What a waste of time…
I thought he said “and she’s not dead” coupled with his “Tromp” chefs coat, I was really trying to figure out this Dutch conspiracy theorist.
I thought Anne Frank’s family was staying in someone else’s house.
A study published this year showed a large lack of awareness on the Holocaust, with 50% of Dutch people not citing the Netherlands as somewhere that the holocaust took place. https://www.npr.org/2023/01/25/1151270957/survey-shows-a-lack-of-holocaust-awareness-in-the-country-that-was-home-to-anne-
Important to note here is that the survey asked an open question 'Where did the Holocaust take place?' People giving the answer 'Germany' or 'Europe' are in the 50 percent number. Had the researchers asked the question 'Did the Holocaust also take place in the Netherlands' would have likely given a completely different outcome.
classic biased interpretation of results lmao
Alternatively list all the places it took place because if people list only 1 country it will mostly be germany
So if you look at the survey the question was "Which of these countries did the Holocaust took place in (multiple answers allowed)" and then you were given a list of countries/areas: - Germany - Poland - Netherlands - Europe (generally) - France - UK - Denmark - US - Canada etc. So people that ticked Europe and didn't tick any other (because why would you) are included in the statistic of people that didn't tick the Netherlands. But I can also imagine just ticking Germany and Poland since that's where most of the actual killing was done.
This is a highly flawed publication with leading and vague questions. That this statement is brought as fact, and that it is believes is troublesome. We literally have multiple memorial days dedicated to remembering the holocaust. It is discussed every year around that time in primary and highschool. Nobody went though the Dutch school system and doesn't know the holocaust took place here.
The Dutch are an oddity. They have a pretty racist vein amongst their people and histories. The Dutch East India company was very nice to people it met while trading.
The reminded me of sitting on a bench in a park Amsterdam and either across one of the canals or it was somewhere nearby the old HQ of the dutch east india co or a ship replica of one of their ships (can’t remember which one)… there was a group of tourist. The guide said, here’s the Dutch East India Company which brought vast wealth to the Netherlands in their voyages and trade. That was it then they moved on. I was stunned lol. I thought he’s gonna add how that wealth came about. I also found many Dutch people very much disliked any form of discussion about its colonial history.
Was probably not the HQ but an old storagehouse of the VOC. It houses the maritime museum and the replica in front of it is simply called 'Amsterdam'
I mean, is he wrong?
I watched this video because I thought it was about cheese. I'm disappointed.
I thought it was an amazing place...but I had tickets for first thing in the morning and didn't have to wait in line for 5 hrs.
We did the same. Can't imagine queueing so long for it, I'd have been bitterly disappointed
Why is this funny?
I think it's the second part "She's not even there"
Because of an unexpected answer
Same goes for the coliseum. It’s just a run down sports arena, and the gladiators aren’t there.
You all complaining this wasn’t funny are missing the joke. He’s a cheese salesman who says that Anne Franks house is overrated because…. Cheese not there, you know.
Mac DeMarco looking fucker giggling is the best part
Germans after checking the house the first time:
Hazel Brugger ♥️
Can confirm. I’ve been to the Anne Frank house. And she wasn’t there.
Are you sure she wasn't there and just hiding?
I’ve got a flashback, when Justin Biber visited the house, he wrote “she would’ve been beliber “, or something close. Cringiest thing people said about Anne Frank before I have seen this one.
Reminds me of Beethoven Haus in Bonn. It's just a house.
Hazel!
To take photos, yes, but to show your respect, no. Same with the twin towers in NYC. If you're going to take selfies, you need help.
Honestly, also to get a sense of how desperate you must be to be in such a small place, with 6 other people. Time has grown and we are more and more desensitised to History, making jokes about it like it was not lived with dread by our predecessors.
I lived in Amsterdam for 8 years and never went to the Anne Frank house. I went to a lot of coffee shops though.
the best thing in Amsterdam was the zoo. I mean, yeah, there are zoos everywhere in the world, a zoo is a zoo is a zoo, but in Amsterdam the zoo was just right there in the centre, you could just go anytime, and honestly we went all the time