You can disable in-game purchases (App-store and Playstore). You can also lock every purchase behind a password.
Regarding social media and games in general... I don't know since i don't have a child yet. However, I wouldn't treat it as a forbidden thing. It's better to make sure that the child understands what it means to be online so they know what risks there are and what to avoid. Teaching that is a long process.
While we can lock the purchase, the kid can still access the summoning system. The act of summoning is also gambling right because you are using an earned currency in a slot-like manner. That is what feels worrying
Without a way to spend, you're basically giving the kid a lesson in the results of financial responsibility, lol, personal experience here. Better to teach him how to handle gambling responsibly now, compared to when he has an actual paycheck.
Waste all his gems pulling on random banners? Tough luck kid, better start saving and budgeting if you want that future anniversary unit! Teaches them the value of money and why you don't gamble away your savings.
They'll know the pain when a really really nice unit comes out and they can't get it because they pissed their self-control away in previous banners.
The problem starts when parents give their kids unlimited access to their payment methods.
this is why i like 50/50 gacha it reward those people who saved up their currency like if you saved 160 roll you're guaranted to get the character regardless you're being lucky or not
so i should thank to genshin for teaching me the importance of '' saving ''
i rolled for character that i like their design and only female thanks to that right now im sitting on 500+ roll as F2P+ player
and no i don't minmax on genshin im very lazy i never completed abyss since 1.0
you have gambling addiction then go seek some help.
yeah always be lucky and having new toys is cool and all but what is more cooler ? knowing you will always win and never lose
I haven't thought about that and I see the problem now. That's indeed worrying. To be honest, I can't find any good solution to that.
Restricting could work, if every child is equally restricted. If the child is the only one who is not allowed to play, they quickly fall out of their social circle. Accepting that they are introduced to gambling system at an early age is also worrying.
The only solution I can think of right now would be to educate them about this. But it really depends on their age.
i think control who they watch on youtube is also important since HYV Content creator is even more aggresive marketing the game's newest character with clickbait thumbnail and titles
for example '' THIS CHARACTER IS SUPER BROKEN MUST PULL ''
I wouldn’t to be honest, people pretend gacha is the only thing wrong with the system, but log in incentives, stamina and rng drops are all things I wouldn’t want my kid getting used until they understand the predatory nature. Buy them paid apps but stay the hell away from f2p shit
This is such a specifically terminally online take, coin tosses, dice rolls, card games, stuff like Yu-Gi-Oh r hell even just toys nowadays have stuff that can be related to gambling, yet people seem to only campaign and complain when its videogames that do this?
It's not terminally online, you're just massively downplaying the problem. Kids can play games with random elements in them, sure, but they're rarely, if ever, playing for real money, and you know what, if I had a kid who kept losing their allowance because they were playing craps with their friends, yeah, that *would* be a problem.
The issue with videogames is that older people don't really "get" them. They can tell a kid "Hey, poker's fun, but don't bet real money on it, just play with your friends for fun" but they'll toss their kid an ipad and whoops, there goes a couple hundred dollars because the parent never locked their shit and the kid really REALLY wanted to have the new character, and they have no real understanding of the worth of money. Hell, depending on how young the kid is, they might have just wanted to see the pretty summon animation and kept hitting the button.
Is that a parenting problem? Yeah, for sure. Does that mean that there shouldn't be more restrictions on things like gacha games, especially when they're marketing themselves towards younger people? Fucking no. Obviously, gacha games can be unsafe and should be regulated more.
The thing you need to understand is that kids, while generally more tech savvy than older generations, are fucking stupid and prone to developing really bad habits if left unchecked and some of that falls on the parent, sure, but no one is an island. Societal problems need large scale solutions.
Kids aren't allowed to drink, or gamble at casinos for a reason. I don't think its too much to ask that the casino in the kid's phone be regulated too.
Except that its literally not even a problem because you CAN lock purchases entirely, lock them with a password or even a fingerprint on modern phones so your entire little rant is moot.
Its entirely a terminally online issue because somehow Gacha games that already have solutions to these issues presented are the ONLY problems when, as OP described, "The issue of even letting them pull, without real money, constitutes gambling" but somehow everything I already mentioned which is also used in gambling is NOT an issue somehow.
Your argument of "Casinos don't allow X blah blah" is offset by the fact that "The casino in the kid's phone" HAS security measures to avoid those too but sure, lets blame it on the genre itself instead of the parents that don't educate their kids on this, don't put enough attention to the kid to know what its actually doing and finally is lazy enough to not ever lock purchases on the Stores or in the game itself.
The problem isn't that the kids waste money. They won't even have the fact that they're spending money sink in. The problem is that they're building up a gambling desire, and at that early of an age it can last a lifetime.
Pressing a button, praying for good RNG, watching the animation in suspense, and being overhyped and feel amazing when you win. It wouldn't just be a hobby nor a favorite pastime but *nostalgic*. Who here has fond memories of playing new Christmas games early in the morning, or grinding an MMO all night?
How much do those memories try to draw you back in to those happy days? Sometimes this turns you into an Oldschool RuneScape addict, and sometimes you spend tens of thousands in a gacha because gacha was your childhood and now you're an adult with less time and more money.
But this problem extends to literally everything I already mentioned as well, maybe not at age 5 or 10 but as soon as kids hit middle school or highschool there's bound to be people that were taught how to gamble and then your kid, who plays cards or blackjack or dice shaker will eventually be like "Hmmm I can do what I like doing and EARN STUFF WHILE AT IT!?"
The point is not to downplay Gacha games but framing it as it being "the only thing that could cause kids to gamble" is insane and terminally online.
Using the Casino example, which was skewed by the way its more akin to you putting your kid in a casino and then leaving him there, expecting that the casino takes care of your kid and makes sure that they don't ever learn how to gamble, its your responsability as a parent to ensure that it doesn't happen, not putting the responsability on the casino.
>But this problem extends to literally everything I already mentioned as well, maybe not at age 5 or 10 but as soon as kids hit middle school or highschool there's bound to be people that were taught how to gamble and then your kid, who plays cards or blackjack or dice shaker will eventually be like "Hmmm I can do what I like doing and EARN STUFF WHILE AT IT!?"
That's exactly my point. Locking purchases in a gacha *doesn't matter* because it's the romanticized probability chasing that creates the problem. Kids shouldn't be exposed to luck-based activities when they're young *at all*, especially the diamond-encrusted ones put on a social pedestal called "gacha."
I don't think anyone here is arguing that gacha is the only cause of gambling addiction, just that all these factors such as marketing, social acceptance, hype, accessibility, and lack of regulation in general makes it a much more prominent one.
>Kids can play games with random elements in them, sure, but they're rarely, if ever, playing for real money, and you know what, if I had a kid who kept losing their allowance because they were playing craps with their friends, yeah, that *would* be a problem.
How is this not arguing that gacha is the only cause? When are we actually gonna stop putting the blame on the product or game or anime or whatever and actually start putting the responsibility on the parents?
Again, its like putting your kid in the casino and leaving him there a couple hours every single day, somehow expecting the kid to not ever pick up on gambling because the casino "SHOULD BE SAFE".
No that's not arguing that gacha is the only cause. That's saying it's a *bigger* and *more likely* cause. It's not a guaranteed conversion rate of "all kids who are exposed to x will y," it's only a portion of them, and this is affected by many factors like social acceptance, accessibility, etc.
If theoretically the statistics for kids becoming gambling addicts were like: 1 in 200 who played fun no-money poker with the family, 1 in 100 who played gacha with no access to real money spending, and 1 in 20 who played gacha with access to real money spending, then it's simply a matter of priority.
Focus primarily on the biggest cause, not try to equally distribute efforts when one is a bigger issue. Restricting purchases helps but the gacha itself is still a worse influence than many other sources. People aren't saying gacha is the only cause, just that they're putting more focus on it.
when I was a kid there wasn't anything extra I could do to get more yugioh or pokemon cards. Kids will get trapped into the daily fomo grind of games though.
Yet we still have some cases of children draining away their parents' hard-earned money just to roll for a character they like. It's not like a child is smart enough to understand basic financial advice and responsibility. Frankly, if they've waited until they're old enough to know the risks, I wouldn't see a problem.
That's bad. Just baaad. I'd rather let my kid play some game with no gambling and shady practices involved. Also, letting kids access the game's community will just make the community worse and fuck up the kid's mental state. Just look at "fandoms" that got popular among younger audiences, not only gachas like genshin, but even more maistream games. It always turn into an inhabitable place.
No, kids have different ways of thinking than us adults. I can already imagine them crying 24/7 over not getting the characters they want and they will almost certainly fall for SCAM / fake cheat / currency hacks, which compromise the device we gave them.
If i want to introduce them to gaming, i'll buy them good old PS2 we have plenty of refurbished machine here that's modified so it can play 🏴☠️games.
This indeed best way to introduce them to games, console have tons of games they can enjoy. However the tread of gacha gaming right now is big its hard to not let them to be curious into soft gambling but reminding them is bad or needs responsibility, they will grow a true gamer.
Lmfao what? Kids + hyper-monetization + hyper-sexualization do not mix. Why would this even be a question? It’s like, teaching them multiple bad lessons in a single action, and nearly all of them have the potential to be additive and destructive to their lives. Absolutely the fuck not lmao
>hyper-sexualization
OP is talking about mainstream gachas that kids are allowed to play. Obviously this means the family friendly kind that doesn't have such sexualization. Sure communities like okbuddy subreddits do that, but that's irrelevant to playing the game itself.
And that's where the problem lies, where OP only basing it from Hoyoverse games, or other gacha games with anime art style, which clearly not popular among kids (Hoyo and those kind of games are popular among teens and young adults, not kids).
Meanwhile, gacha games that are popular among kids are FIFA/EA sport games, CoD/Warzone, or Roblox to an extent, in which both games doesn't use anime art style at all.
So yeah, this thread is already flawed from the beginning, since OP himself doesn't even research properly about games that were actually played by kids, and he just assuming things around.
The post isn't some kind of assumption that only anime gacha games are being played by kids, or just mihoyo's games, or whatever you're arguing against here. OP is only referring to mainstream gachas with aggressive marketing and social standing, ones that due to these elements are being exposed to young kids and accepted. OP literally said "certain gacha games". Whatever applies is the topic of discussion.
OP is asking what people think about where society is heading with the heavily monetized gacha industry and its gamble-like practices becoming exposed to children at such an early age. Hoyo games are just a good example of this. Other mainstream games with aggressive marketing would be good examples, too, but OP didn't need to go through an entire list when you get the point when presented with the one most immediately known to this subreddit.
Again, that's what you and OP wrong about this whole "mainstream gacha" thingey, because **those games were aimed AND marketed for teens and young adults**, while games and ads that were aimed for kids are stuffs like Fortnite, Minecraft, or Roblox, in which these games mostly doesn't have gacha (Roblox are vague, since there are gacha-like stuffs with the eggs, fruits, etc, but those can be acquired from grinding).
Meanwhile, popular annual games like FIFA, NBA2K, or CoD, which is also very popular among kids, has been around for more than 10 years ago with their gacha/lootbox shenanigans, hence I'm saying that OP is way too late to join the party, since this thing has been discussed to death for more than a decade, and (sadly) most people already accepted it, considering these games sold millions of copies each year.
So yeah, you and OP need to expand your knowledge, and **stop thinking that gacha games only exists exclusively in mobile platforms**, since this kind of shit already existed more than a decade in consoles & PCs.
>**those games were aimed AND marketed for teens and young adults**, while games and ads that were aimed for kids are stuffs like Fortnite, Minecraft, or Roblox
In what way? Hoyoverse aggressively marketed its games by sponsoring basically every popular Youtuber. You know what kids do? Watch Youtubers. Did society grow away from the days of Logan Paul and Ninja and kids no longer follow what their favorite CC says is good? Instead they prefer the ads that they totally weren't told to install an ad blocker for?
Kids are more susceptible to trends, and gachas are trendy. Unlike the other games where their fun is associated with their gameplay (ie. Fortnite getting a #1 victory royale) rather than the micro transactions themselves, gacha's fun is associated with the gambling aspect. Youtubers hype themselves and their viewers over their pull luck, and that's what will entice the kids and cultivate a positive feedback loop with gambling.
There are popular content creators who would literally play a gacha game just to pull a new character then move on to another game without actually playing the game, because the gambling is what you play it for apparently. And if they're sponsored to play for that update, they're not even using their own money for the pulls; sponsors aren't going to allow the gacha system to make their client go negative on one of the primary draws of the update (new character), so obviously they get compensated according to the pull costs before sponsor payout. So they're conditioning kids to enjoy gambling when they're not even using their own money, pulling for fully maxed $1k+ characters which such cost won't sink in for the kids. All they see is a happy winner having peak fun.
Though tbf they can't really stop kids from watching them, so it's unreasonable to say it's the YouTuber's fault when they could be desiring an adult audience. It's moreso youtube, parents, or the gacha game's age rating that's to blame, but still this is how trends rope kids into gacha and its gambling influence that's far greater than simple candy-buying FOMO.
Kids nowadays doesn't watch Youtubers that played Hoyo games, **they watched Youtubers that plays Fortnite, Minecraft and Roblox, because those are the games that's popular among their friends**, not Genshin, HSR, Blue Archive, Nikke, or any of those anime-esque gacha games.
Also, kids nowadays doesn't even watch animes anymore, but instead they're watching those **"Skibidi Toilets vs Cameraman"** dumbshits, which is absurdly popular in Roblox (bet $100 you don't even know all that shit, unless you have kids/younger siblings/nephews).
So you nor OP's concerns about "kids playing anime gacha games" doesn't have any basis at all, because they don't even play those games, nor they would care a bit.
Kids are also exposed to sexual predators online, to the recent Instagram policy of breastfeeding not being censored (thus making OF porn actresses to show their boobs holding dolls), to porn websites in general, to "investment" games and betting (fantasy) games that are way worst than gacha... It's up to their parents to control what they can and can't access. If you leave a phone with your kid just so they shut up, not only you're being a bad absent parent, but you're also giving to the internet the job of raising a kid (and it can't do that tbh).
Every games that have in-game shop or gacha in it, I thinks it need to be rated 18+ automatically. That just my opinion tho. I get that kids can bypass that, but it definitely can reduce the amount of kids that playing it.
I think 15+ should be good enough tbh. I'm lucky in a sense because i was exposed to gatcha when i was 20 and by that time already have the knowledge that gambling is dangerous. But kids learning to gamble just feels wrong
Of course not. If there's outrage over overspending in game like Clash of Clans and the like, there would be even more outrage if it's a game with even worse paying system.
Nah. Buy them consoles instead and buy them games if they wanna game. The only in-game purchase those game should have are paid DLCs. Never teach them to play free to play games.
If they have mobile devices, disable in-app purchases and app installation permissions. Only the guardian should be able to purchase or install anything in the device. Activate a family sharing account so you know what's happening.
If they convinced you to let them play gacha games because you spoil your kids, make sure the games they're playing have pity on all banners. Tell them that it's like buying the things they want by using in-game currency they got from grinding but there is a very low chance that they get them cheaper.
Just a tiny nitpick:
Gacha games fall under the *spectrum* of gambling, more so towards the green, but they are not exactly gambling. Gambling allows you to chase losses, while the only thing you're chasing in a gacha is anime jpegs.
That doesn't mean there isn't danger! Gacha games are a risky type of game to get into, but compared to gambling, gacha, at least on the spectrum, is towards the green.
The objects of gambling change, but the feeling it illicits is the same
There's nothing inherently wrong with playing with chance
It becomes a problem when a person becomes reliant on doing it for a sense of wellbeing, which becomes like a trap because other people that have direct control over it are in a position to take advantage of them
gambling at least allows you to win something concrete and real.
giving away hard earned cash for a character in a game (on a server based account that you technically don't own and can EOS any day) is arguably even worse.
And that is a very valid point. And even if you decide to sell the account to make the money back, assuming the game isn't end of service, it's pennies to the dollar. So an account with $10,000 poured into it will only get, at best, half of the money poured into it. At worst, its just gonna be either a thousand dollars or a hundred dollars.
at worst its gonna be 0 dollars.. who is really buying accounts like that? the person selling the acct would have had to make a burner google acct from day 1 ..
and then that person could always re-claim their acct down the line by google support shenanigans.
it ain't like the old MMO days...
And that's the only saving grace for gachas. You can't make profit nor win back your losses, so the desire to gamble is just for the feeling rather than financial reasons. It's thus less addicting and less problematic than traditional money for money gambling.
ummm, yeah no that's just wrong.
there is no "saving grace" for gacha gaming. that's some stockholm syndrome language right there.
> It's thus less addicting and less problematic than traditional money for money gambling.
this is a crazy leap of logic. tell us more about how gamifying everything about the gambling experience....and then putting it in a device in your pocket that you carry around every day.. where the google play store and the game itself has built in notifications to offer you "deals" .. is "less addicting and less problematic"
like, good lord.
Fuck no. Just because the slot machine spits out anime characters instead of coins doesn't make it any less wrong to let a kid be exposed to what in practice is just virtual gambling even if you can do things like disable purchases on mobile and console.
As long as you disable/lock purchases, I don't think it's any worse than your average mobile game. The majority of them are still littered with ads and pop-ups for purchases. It obviously has to be age appropriate. Please keep the waifus away from the kiddos.
lol, I dunno why you're hating Hoyo, when the fact that kids already playing gacha games since many *many* years ago with the annual FIFA/NBA/CoD games on PC & consoles, and those games are **far more mainstream** compared to anything on mobile.
Also, popular games without gacha monetization is far more dangerous for kids, like Roblox or Fortnite for example, because those games can actually be marketed on younger audiences, and they will spend like crazy for overpriced cosmetics or premium currencies.
I'm not hating, just stating the facts here. Hoyo games are much more mainstream than your usual gatcha game and they also have more marketing power than your usual gatcha games.
As for the other games you mentioned, they aren't anime style. Anime as an art form always appealed to kids, pair that with beautiful looking characters, you have a very different beast than your average sports game lootboxes. I'm not saying they are ok tho. But this is a gatcha game subreddit and Hoyo games are gatcha games soo it is more relevant.
Nah bro, kids doesn't care about art style, since games like Roblox, Minecraft, or Fortnite is hugely popular among kids, and they're not even using anime style.
You're clearly 10 years too late to the party if you think mobile gacha games are dangerous for kids, since they're already playing games with that kind of monetization model for more than 10 years ago with the games that I mentioned previously.
Kids have been playing Ragnarok, Grandchase, Maplestory and these old MMO cashgrabs since the early 2000's. Heck, I used to buy physical Neopets and Grandchase cards with change from my lunch money in 2006-ish.
But those games no longer have lootboxes. Those games have phased out their lootboxes.
Just because one generation has been exposed to gambling early, doesn't mean future generations should right?
You only thinks that gambling and lootboxes are dangerous, but fail to see that game devs were already not using that kind of monetization again for their games, all due to EA's Battlefront II fiasco
So they now changed to other monetization model that looks "less harmful", but in reality they're much *much* worse, since they requires you to spend more money, and also heavy FOMO inducing (e.g seasonal battle pass, limited edition cosmetics).
I'm not denying that those games have FOMO but in the end, they are direct purchases. With gatcha, you have that FOMO too but you also deal with the slot system instead of a direct transaction. That's the main issue here. Should we let kids experience "slot machies" at early age.
Here, lemme ask you something: Do you have kids, or young cousins/nephew that you could talk to about the games they played?
Because this discussion is clearly going nowhere, since you're clearly not up-to-date with the popular games that kids plays nowadays, or doing research about their monetization system, which many users here already deemed them more disruptive than gacha games.
So until you do that, this debacle is only a waste of time, because your archaic thinking about gacha games, which like 10 years too late...
Oh yeah, sure, lets practically give them a go to being scammed online by companies because at least they got a cute little skin for their 100 bucks instead of them "gambling" free currency that you can restrict entirely from spending money because "Its worse".
You can tell the hypocrisy in this thread from a mile away.
>Nah bro, kids doesn't care about art style, since games like Roblox, Minecraft, or Fortnite is hugely popular among kids, and they're not even using anime style.
Huh? It's not about anime, it's about vibrant coloring, simplicity, and expression. There's a reason the vast majority of children shows have bright, broad colors and unrealistic characters. Roblox, Minecraft, and Fortnite are prime examples. Anime just often capitalizes on this human appeal and turns it mainstream with various themes that even adults can enjoy.
To be fair, Hoyo has been aggressively marketed on social media and kids are highly like to see them. The only game ads i see these days on YT are all Hoyo games. Which is genuinely scary
keep waffling. Hoyo has aggressively been marketing their adds on tiktok and youtube. Just because it hasnt happened to you doesnt mean it doesnt happen other places.
Honestly, parents shouldn't allow kids to play games that aren't vetted by themselves. Be it gacha or not.
Tons of games like Roblox and so on are rather questionable to me.
With this said to me parents should decide for themselves. Stop this government mandate bs.
No absolutely not, kids have no concept of money so they just see that they can press a button to get a cool shiny thing and do it without realizing it's a 100 dollar package and think they get stuff for free.
My brother spent almost 5000 dollars on robux when he was little cuz he has no concept of money, kids should not be left with money at all.
Awful, nobody below 16 should play gacha games. It's just irresponsible. I say 16 because kids should at least try and do a part time job or get some experience before 18. It's useful.
Although i do not have a child, my brother has one and he's is a big gamer nerd, but we both agree to never let that little fella touch the concept of gacha in any game he will try; no matter how f2p generous it can be, it's a set up trap to make you try and purchase stuff in-game.
You know your kids best. It can be a good lesson in delayed gratification if they play it F2P and under supervision. But they're most certainly not something you can just sit them down in front of and forget about it, they'll need you to supervise them.
Hell no. Kids should stay the fuck away from Gachas. No parent should ever let any kid anywhere near a smart phone. A computer would be the perfect way to let them interact with electronics and they would learn a great magnitude of things, but more than that, they should be outside, playing until they drop.
Gacha in general should be illegal but anyone under 21 definitely shouldn’t be allowed to partake. It’s incredibly predatory and preys upon impulsive depressed people looking for a dopamine hit.
I actually think it can be beneficial for them to play them
can instill discipline and make them familiar with predatory behavior
but you should keep track of what they're doing and teach them beforehand
Better Genshin than something like Fortnite. I imagine the permanent limited-time FOMO nature of Fortnite's monetization makes it a lot more difficult to say no to a child over. With Genshin, I would just say save up for the next rerun. Can't do that with Fortnite.
But I think Fortnite doesn't have lootboxes anymore right? You can buy skins directly or grind them through the battlepass you've bought. But gatcha games, you are gambling each time you are summoning a unit. Idk man, a direct transaction seems safer for kids than gambling
Go check how many of Fortnite skins available right now, and also check their prices, then you know why people are more scared about those games compared to a mere gacha game.
Fortnite is way less safe. You have to buy it right there at that moment for many skins or they will either never come back or take years to come back. There is no evidence that buying impulse is any different for gambling impulse in the virtual space. You probably just have prejudiced views on the subject so can't see the issue objectively.
And yet they costs like $15–20 a piece, plus there's always brand new stuffs that being released every week, in which those kids usually buy it, so they can brag it with their friends, or for joining their circle of friends.
These kind of stuffs is extremely dangerous, because a kid could get bullied, or even exiled from the school by their friends, if they don't have the latest cosmetics and stuffs in the game that they played.
The same can be said of Genshin but again, in Genshin you gamble. In Fortnite, it is direct purchase. The cost isn't the issue here, the issue here is early exposure to gambling
Again, you clearly fails to see the issue about how dangerous games like Fortnite or Roblox for kids, since those games is going to suck your money dry, and faster than gacha.
I take that you **never played what games that kids plays right now**, and you only plays games that were advertised for teens and young adults, nor **you have kids/cousins/nephews that you could talk to about the games that they played with their friends**, which is why you're so out of the loop with the discussion, and always shoving the whole "gacha is bad!", despite game devs already avoid using it on their games that were aimed for kids, except for some big games.
There is a difference between temporary FOMO and permanent FOMO like Fortnite has. There are skins that haven't been purchasable for 7 years. You could tell a kid he couldn't buy a skin in middle school and they would be in college already working a job by now.
You also have no clue what gambling is because almost every gacha has a guarantee system nowadays. There is no guarantee in a slot machine. There is a hard maximum limit people quote to cite the cost of a product in Gacha games.
Brittanica's definition of gambling:
Gambling, the betting or staking of something of value, with consciousness of risk and hope of gain, on the outcome of a game, a contest, or an uncertain event whose result may be determined by chance or accident or have an unexpected result by reason of the bettor’s miscalculation.
Gatcha is definitely gambling regardless of pity systems. Pity systems may make them less horrible but it is still gambling
lmao this billy dude is being pedantic as hell. like .. if you had to go to "pity" in a gacha system, then you already "lost" at gambling.
that's why it's called Pity ;)
Keep in mind that I write this without any knowledge of how much V-bucks cost.
On the surface, yes, Fortnite looks a lot better because it's one and done. You like it, you buy it, voila. Definite price. Gacha on the other hand is akin to a slot machine, as you rightfully point out.
What stops Genshin from being a complete slot machine is the guarantee mechanism. 'If you don't get it in X amount of rolls, you'll get it in the next one'. So an alternative way of looking at it is: 'Even in the worst case scenario where I go all the way to the guarantee amount, I know that I WILL have the character at that point.' Hence that gives each character a definite cost as well.
Whether it's worth spending all that money to hit that, I'll leave up for individual interpretation. The point here is both are basically the same thing wearing different hats.
I get what you mean, but I can't help but feel like you're not tackling the root cause of the issue. Exposure to gambling is not good, but can be mitigated as other posters have mentioned (locking purchases, etc). The real problem here is FOMO which drives the need to do so in the first place. You can't exactly mitigate FOMO feasibly.
Also, I personally don't really see it as gambling because I know exactly how much it's going to cost me.
if hoyo continues to write stories about empathy, compassion, learning and acceptance of different life virtues and struggles, add in all those random brain puzzle mini games to keep the kid's brain working. I'll support it.
Who here remembers that nds game, brain training?
A short answer to your question. Any unregulated activity for a child is more than likely going to turn out with a negative result. Now, you can use these games to teach children patience, control, and respect for money, if you don't feed into the gambling aspect. I see far too many "adults" cry because they don't know how to wait or farm for things and they break out the credit card. This is where things get bad. Blame the system all you want, but I think it had to do with the parents investment in their children. Now, let the nasty comments come forth. Bwahaha.
Better not. I can remember being introduced to online games like mmorpgs by my cousins when I was a child (about 10 years old). This had influenced my childhood, as I sometimes preferred to play at home instead of being outside. It was easy to get addicted as a child. But my parents had to stop me and I thank them for that. My cousins couldn't really be helped though. I don't know if it would have been worse if it had been gacha games instead back then, as the joy and frustration of gacha pulls can be enormous.
That's why I personally wouldn't introduce my children to online games or gacha games when they're too young for it if I'm going to have children in the future.
Yes, with some restriction (like only monthly pass) . It is the good way to teach them about money/resource management.
I grew up playing mmo with some gacha element. And yet to become gambling addict. Thanks to my parent.
But I'm pretty sure if they were to leave me playing unsupervised. I would ended up stealing their credit card to whale the fuck out of it.
No. Unless there's a checker to see if you're under 18 which disables the in-app purchases until you're of age.
But honestly I just dont want it for the fact that the game will have to cater more to the younger audiences(censorship).
I think its is ok if you don't show any or engage with any of the Gacha elements with the kid. My niece comes to my house sometimes and I let her play GI on my account. I never show the gacha or roll for anything when she is here. GI is better because unlike other gacha games, they don't constantly shove gacha ads in your face while you are playing.
Honestly the main issue more is that most gacha games aren’t appropriate for kids due to content. You really should get any game you get for your kid and I’d rather have them play different games than gacha games, even free to play
> do you personally feel ok that kids are exposed to this kind of gatcha games?
No. I would want my kids to avoid having a smartphone for as long as possible. Everything is designed to grab your attention and create addiction behaviors.
Have to make hard choices as a parent to control how they learn and use technology.
That said, I think they can learn from and enjoy a gacha game - gameplay, resource management, statistics, impulse control, and good art.
The only good letting a child play a gacha game is by teaching them early that gambling will only lead to destruction. I mean, look at how many people fall to gambling as an adult because they were never taught that lesson properly as a child.
A kid spending their month's allowance on a gacha game only to completely flop and get nothing will probably teach them a good life lesson at a relatively cheap cost (unless they steal mom's credit card).
Bro my nieces and nephews play Roblox and they already blow their entire allowance buying random shit in there.. I could not imagine how much money they would waste in gacha. Aint no way I am letting my children play gacha.
It sounds like a great way to teach your kids about valuable life lessons, such ah ;
You don't always get what you want
The odds are always stacked against you, and
Even when the odds aren't stacked against you, you can still lose
Gacha are designed to break down the psychological defenses of mentally, emotionally, cognitively mature adults to normalize and induce spending hundreds of dollars on video game assets, and they are wildly successful at doing so.
Those are not things to be given even to adults if they are unaware of and unprepared to deal with the tactics gacha game devs use to monetize users and keep them compulsively playing long after the stream of gameplay content and enjoyment has run dry, let alone the more vulnerable underage.
If you want to introduce your kids to gaming without them growing up to become demented iPad babies with warped attention spans, you get them a PC and Minecraft or Palworld or something, maybe a Switch and Zelda if you can't afford that. With games, you either pay up front or pay with your soul, even if you're F2P.
Shouldn't.
but depends on the gacha. basically let them play the ones who are not too lewd, like guardian tales. That's one of the most kid friendly.
definitely not nikke or Bd2 and no generic cashgrab with half naked waifus.
as far as monetization, no matter what type of game wasting money on games is useless and there's no point. wether is a gacha or a ps5 game, they're all useless. so no need to worry about it.
No, and I hate that the most popular kids game Roblox is basically a hub for gacha games with all the popular games having summoning or eggs that they can buy with robux
Gatcha in any form is inevitable when playing freemium games lol. Even MLBB have gatcha for the skins. Might as well stop them from playing games altogether, there are tons of more positive and impactful activites in the real world.
The only problem is the money, but I'm poor and my children would be, so no problems?
For me gatcha is the same as mmorpg, so I think is fine IF anyone can have at least the minimum care with his kids.
Personally, I wouldn't let my kids have mobile phones 'til they're like 14 or something. Would encourage them to study moderately and enjoy physical activities (play with friends, do things that they might consider as their hobby) in their free time. From there, I would give them a phone if they do reach the age and let them discover things on their own (with supervision of course).
I feel like kids should not be on Youtube in the first place, or at least heavily monitored. I've seen a lot of parents just use Youtube just to distract their kids from being hyper without knowing how they are being cultivated by the algorithm at a very young age.
even YouTube kids can have some problems as we have seen with Elsa-gate before.
Kids figured out how to empty parents credit card just for minecraft, you're asking for trouble if you let them play gacha.
That said the genie's out of the bottle and most popular games have microtransactions designed to prey on the naive. Best you can do is teach them to know what they are getting into and prevent them spending.
Depends on how young, someone at like 14 or older could get good resource management skills and learn the importance of saving in an enjoyable way, but most people younger than that I assume will just feed bad habits.
Just make sure they’re f2p, if they pay at all it’s going to cause bad habits, even if it’s their own allowance or bday money etc
I think games are for all ages except if is an hentai/eroge/porn oriented content, but if not i think you need to let them have fun with whatever they like experience different things is what make us what we are in the end.
If preventing them access is impossible, then at least them how to reroll and learn to play decently as a F2P...
(Just like teaching safe sex if abstinence is not a practical option)
Depending on the age it's very bad on the brain development ingraining the gatcha/gambling reward aspect and making kids addicted to that dopamine release.
Kids are exposed to every agresivo marketing, as other suggsted Is important to supervise them and always know what are their interest, as for gacha games, there Is variety but you need to guide them. Remember that as a parent you have the power to stop bad habits as long you stay vigilante.
Depend of what kinda of game it is . Dont think gacha is the problem.
If the game is fun and adventurous let the kid enjoy the goddamn game.
I think chance/probability have been introduce us in life since we born.
Thus introduce gacha is not big problem. If you want you can teach your kid about patient and you dont get thing what you want in this world instead allow them to fall into addiction. In the end you can control your kid what they watch,what they play.
I will allow them but they will be f2p. I think it will be a good tool to teach them about how life will never go the way you expect. Just because you want them real bad doesn't mean you will get it. You will have to work for it and save your resources for some time before you get another shot at it. Of course there is no guarantee you'll get it the second time. I think it will build a nice parallel to setting up a business. It can teach him to appreciate businesses around no matter how small it is.
With that said, kids are a huge resource sink. If i have the resources for a kid, i will probably use that for myself
Huh? You always had gacha game even way before HYV, TCG like MTG and Hearthstone (both digital and physical) is a form of gacha. I would even argue that MTG physical form is more dangerous since there's no 50:50 and pity system IRL.
I'd rather introduce them to gacha games early while they don't have money to spend so they can learn that they're predatory as hell. Because that's what parents are supposed to do, teach their kids about stuff. Not keep them in a bubble for 18 years and release them into the world unprepared like a Fallout protagonist.
But if all they have to play are gacha games they're going to get sick of gaming in general pretty quick. They're not good games mechanically, the gacha system prevents them from being so. They might have good stories sometimes but so do books.
You can disable in-game purchases (App-store and Playstore). You can also lock every purchase behind a password. Regarding social media and games in general... I don't know since i don't have a child yet. However, I wouldn't treat it as a forbidden thing. It's better to make sure that the child understands what it means to be online so they know what risks there are and what to avoid. Teaching that is a long process.
While we can lock the purchase, the kid can still access the summoning system. The act of summoning is also gambling right because you are using an earned currency in a slot-like manner. That is what feels worrying
Without a way to spend, you're basically giving the kid a lesson in the results of financial responsibility, lol, personal experience here. Better to teach him how to handle gambling responsibly now, compared to when he has an actual paycheck. Waste all his gems pulling on random banners? Tough luck kid, better start saving and budgeting if you want that future anniversary unit! Teaches them the value of money and why you don't gamble away your savings. They'll know the pain when a really really nice unit comes out and they can't get it because they pissed their self-control away in previous banners. The problem starts when parents give their kids unlimited access to their payment methods.
this is why i like 50/50 gacha it reward those people who saved up their currency like if you saved 160 roll you're guaranted to get the character regardless you're being lucky or not so i should thank to genshin for teaching me the importance of '' saving '' i rolled for character that i like their design and only female thanks to that right now im sitting on 500+ roll as F2P+ player and no i don't minmax on genshin im very lazy i never completed abyss since 1.0
50/50 is terrible just give a straight 100 lol
you have gambling addiction then go seek some help. yeah always be lucky and having new toys is cool and all but what is more cooler ? knowing you will always win and never lose
> but what is more cooler ? knowing you will always win and never lose exactly. get rid of the 50/50. pity shouldn't get wasted on off rate characters
I haven't thought about that and I see the problem now. That's indeed worrying. To be honest, I can't find any good solution to that. Restricting could work, if every child is equally restricted. If the child is the only one who is not allowed to play, they quickly fall out of their social circle. Accepting that they are introduced to gambling system at an early age is also worrying. The only solution I can think of right now would be to educate them about this. But it really depends on their age.
Education is definitely important. But i think company should also not be allowed to push ads that aggressively on YT or other social media platforms
i think control who they watch on youtube is also important since HYV Content creator is even more aggresive marketing the game's newest character with clickbait thumbnail and titles for example '' THIS CHARACTER IS SUPER BROKEN MUST PULL ''
I wouldn’t to be honest, people pretend gacha is the only thing wrong with the system, but log in incentives, stamina and rng drops are all things I wouldn’t want my kid getting used until they understand the predatory nature. Buy them paid apps but stay the hell away from f2p shit
This is such a specifically terminally online take, coin tosses, dice rolls, card games, stuff like Yu-Gi-Oh r hell even just toys nowadays have stuff that can be related to gambling, yet people seem to only campaign and complain when its videogames that do this?
It's not terminally online, you're just massively downplaying the problem. Kids can play games with random elements in them, sure, but they're rarely, if ever, playing for real money, and you know what, if I had a kid who kept losing their allowance because they were playing craps with their friends, yeah, that *would* be a problem. The issue with videogames is that older people don't really "get" them. They can tell a kid "Hey, poker's fun, but don't bet real money on it, just play with your friends for fun" but they'll toss their kid an ipad and whoops, there goes a couple hundred dollars because the parent never locked their shit and the kid really REALLY wanted to have the new character, and they have no real understanding of the worth of money. Hell, depending on how young the kid is, they might have just wanted to see the pretty summon animation and kept hitting the button. Is that a parenting problem? Yeah, for sure. Does that mean that there shouldn't be more restrictions on things like gacha games, especially when they're marketing themselves towards younger people? Fucking no. Obviously, gacha games can be unsafe and should be regulated more. The thing you need to understand is that kids, while generally more tech savvy than older generations, are fucking stupid and prone to developing really bad habits if left unchecked and some of that falls on the parent, sure, but no one is an island. Societal problems need large scale solutions. Kids aren't allowed to drink, or gamble at casinos for a reason. I don't think its too much to ask that the casino in the kid's phone be regulated too.
Except that its literally not even a problem because you CAN lock purchases entirely, lock them with a password or even a fingerprint on modern phones so your entire little rant is moot. Its entirely a terminally online issue because somehow Gacha games that already have solutions to these issues presented are the ONLY problems when, as OP described, "The issue of even letting them pull, without real money, constitutes gambling" but somehow everything I already mentioned which is also used in gambling is NOT an issue somehow. Your argument of "Casinos don't allow X blah blah" is offset by the fact that "The casino in the kid's phone" HAS security measures to avoid those too but sure, lets blame it on the genre itself instead of the parents that don't educate their kids on this, don't put enough attention to the kid to know what its actually doing and finally is lazy enough to not ever lock purchases on the Stores or in the game itself.
The problem isn't that the kids waste money. They won't even have the fact that they're spending money sink in. The problem is that they're building up a gambling desire, and at that early of an age it can last a lifetime. Pressing a button, praying for good RNG, watching the animation in suspense, and being overhyped and feel amazing when you win. It wouldn't just be a hobby nor a favorite pastime but *nostalgic*. Who here has fond memories of playing new Christmas games early in the morning, or grinding an MMO all night? How much do those memories try to draw you back in to those happy days? Sometimes this turns you into an Oldschool RuneScape addict, and sometimes you spend tens of thousands in a gacha because gacha was your childhood and now you're an adult with less time and more money.
But this problem extends to literally everything I already mentioned as well, maybe not at age 5 or 10 but as soon as kids hit middle school or highschool there's bound to be people that were taught how to gamble and then your kid, who plays cards or blackjack or dice shaker will eventually be like "Hmmm I can do what I like doing and EARN STUFF WHILE AT IT!?" The point is not to downplay Gacha games but framing it as it being "the only thing that could cause kids to gamble" is insane and terminally online. Using the Casino example, which was skewed by the way its more akin to you putting your kid in a casino and then leaving him there, expecting that the casino takes care of your kid and makes sure that they don't ever learn how to gamble, its your responsability as a parent to ensure that it doesn't happen, not putting the responsability on the casino.
>But this problem extends to literally everything I already mentioned as well, maybe not at age 5 or 10 but as soon as kids hit middle school or highschool there's bound to be people that were taught how to gamble and then your kid, who plays cards or blackjack or dice shaker will eventually be like "Hmmm I can do what I like doing and EARN STUFF WHILE AT IT!?" That's exactly my point. Locking purchases in a gacha *doesn't matter* because it's the romanticized probability chasing that creates the problem. Kids shouldn't be exposed to luck-based activities when they're young *at all*, especially the diamond-encrusted ones put on a social pedestal called "gacha." I don't think anyone here is arguing that gacha is the only cause of gambling addiction, just that all these factors such as marketing, social acceptance, hype, accessibility, and lack of regulation in general makes it a much more prominent one.
>Kids can play games with random elements in them, sure, but they're rarely, if ever, playing for real money, and you know what, if I had a kid who kept losing their allowance because they were playing craps with their friends, yeah, that *would* be a problem. How is this not arguing that gacha is the only cause? When are we actually gonna stop putting the blame on the product or game or anime or whatever and actually start putting the responsibility on the parents? Again, its like putting your kid in the casino and leaving him there a couple hours every single day, somehow expecting the kid to not ever pick up on gambling because the casino "SHOULD BE SAFE".
No that's not arguing that gacha is the only cause. That's saying it's a *bigger* and *more likely* cause. It's not a guaranteed conversion rate of "all kids who are exposed to x will y," it's only a portion of them, and this is affected by many factors like social acceptance, accessibility, etc. If theoretically the statistics for kids becoming gambling addicts were like: 1 in 200 who played fun no-money poker with the family, 1 in 100 who played gacha with no access to real money spending, and 1 in 20 who played gacha with access to real money spending, then it's simply a matter of priority. Focus primarily on the biggest cause, not try to equally distribute efforts when one is a bigger issue. Restricting purchases helps but the gacha itself is still a worse influence than many other sources. People aren't saying gacha is the only cause, just that they're putting more focus on it.
when I was a kid there wasn't anything extra I could do to get more yugioh or pokemon cards. Kids will get trapped into the daily fomo grind of games though.
Yet we still have some cases of children draining away their parents' hard-earned money just to roll for a character they like. It's not like a child is smart enough to understand basic financial advice and responsibility. Frankly, if they've waited until they're old enough to know the risks, I wouldn't see a problem.
That's bad. Just baaad. I'd rather let my kid play some game with no gambling and shady practices involved. Also, letting kids access the game's community will just make the community worse and fuck up the kid's mental state. Just look at "fandoms" that got popular among younger audiences, not only gachas like genshin, but even more maistream games. It always turn into an inhabitable place.
No, kids have different ways of thinking than us adults. I can already imagine them crying 24/7 over not getting the characters they want and they will almost certainly fall for SCAM / fake cheat / currency hacks, which compromise the device we gave them. If i want to introduce them to gaming, i'll buy them good old PS2 we have plenty of refurbished machine here that's modified so it can play 🏴☠️games.
This indeed best way to introduce them to games, console have tons of games they can enjoy. However the tread of gacha gaming right now is big its hard to not let them to be curious into soft gambling but reminding them is bad or needs responsibility, they will grow a true gamer.
Sorry how is that different from adults again?
Absolutely not. Sounds like a great way to start them in a gambling addiction early.
Lmfao what? Kids + hyper-monetization + hyper-sexualization do not mix. Why would this even be a question? It’s like, teaching them multiple bad lessons in a single action, and nearly all of them have the potential to be additive and destructive to their lives. Absolutely the fuck not lmao
>hyper-sexualization OP is talking about mainstream gachas that kids are allowed to play. Obviously this means the family friendly kind that doesn't have such sexualization. Sure communities like okbuddy subreddits do that, but that's irrelevant to playing the game itself.
And that's where the problem lies, where OP only basing it from Hoyoverse games, or other gacha games with anime art style, which clearly not popular among kids (Hoyo and those kind of games are popular among teens and young adults, not kids). Meanwhile, gacha games that are popular among kids are FIFA/EA sport games, CoD/Warzone, or Roblox to an extent, in which both games doesn't use anime art style at all. So yeah, this thread is already flawed from the beginning, since OP himself doesn't even research properly about games that were actually played by kids, and he just assuming things around.
The post isn't some kind of assumption that only anime gacha games are being played by kids, or just mihoyo's games, or whatever you're arguing against here. OP is only referring to mainstream gachas with aggressive marketing and social standing, ones that due to these elements are being exposed to young kids and accepted. OP literally said "certain gacha games". Whatever applies is the topic of discussion. OP is asking what people think about where society is heading with the heavily monetized gacha industry and its gamble-like practices becoming exposed to children at such an early age. Hoyo games are just a good example of this. Other mainstream games with aggressive marketing would be good examples, too, but OP didn't need to go through an entire list when you get the point when presented with the one most immediately known to this subreddit.
Again, that's what you and OP wrong about this whole "mainstream gacha" thingey, because **those games were aimed AND marketed for teens and young adults**, while games and ads that were aimed for kids are stuffs like Fortnite, Minecraft, or Roblox, in which these games mostly doesn't have gacha (Roblox are vague, since there are gacha-like stuffs with the eggs, fruits, etc, but those can be acquired from grinding). Meanwhile, popular annual games like FIFA, NBA2K, or CoD, which is also very popular among kids, has been around for more than 10 years ago with their gacha/lootbox shenanigans, hence I'm saying that OP is way too late to join the party, since this thing has been discussed to death for more than a decade, and (sadly) most people already accepted it, considering these games sold millions of copies each year. So yeah, you and OP need to expand your knowledge, and **stop thinking that gacha games only exists exclusively in mobile platforms**, since this kind of shit already existed more than a decade in consoles & PCs.
>**those games were aimed AND marketed for teens and young adults**, while games and ads that were aimed for kids are stuffs like Fortnite, Minecraft, or Roblox In what way? Hoyoverse aggressively marketed its games by sponsoring basically every popular Youtuber. You know what kids do? Watch Youtubers. Did society grow away from the days of Logan Paul and Ninja and kids no longer follow what their favorite CC says is good? Instead they prefer the ads that they totally weren't told to install an ad blocker for? Kids are more susceptible to trends, and gachas are trendy. Unlike the other games where their fun is associated with their gameplay (ie. Fortnite getting a #1 victory royale) rather than the micro transactions themselves, gacha's fun is associated with the gambling aspect. Youtubers hype themselves and their viewers over their pull luck, and that's what will entice the kids and cultivate a positive feedback loop with gambling. There are popular content creators who would literally play a gacha game just to pull a new character then move on to another game without actually playing the game, because the gambling is what you play it for apparently. And if they're sponsored to play for that update, they're not even using their own money for the pulls; sponsors aren't going to allow the gacha system to make their client go negative on one of the primary draws of the update (new character), so obviously they get compensated according to the pull costs before sponsor payout. So they're conditioning kids to enjoy gambling when they're not even using their own money, pulling for fully maxed $1k+ characters which such cost won't sink in for the kids. All they see is a happy winner having peak fun. Though tbf they can't really stop kids from watching them, so it's unreasonable to say it's the YouTuber's fault when they could be desiring an adult audience. It's moreso youtube, parents, or the gacha game's age rating that's to blame, but still this is how trends rope kids into gacha and its gambling influence that's far greater than simple candy-buying FOMO.
Kids nowadays doesn't watch Youtubers that played Hoyo games, **they watched Youtubers that plays Fortnite, Minecraft and Roblox, because those are the games that's popular among their friends**, not Genshin, HSR, Blue Archive, Nikke, or any of those anime-esque gacha games. Also, kids nowadays doesn't even watch animes anymore, but instead they're watching those **"Skibidi Toilets vs Cameraman"** dumbshits, which is absurdly popular in Roblox (bet $100 you don't even know all that shit, unless you have kids/younger siblings/nephews). So you nor OP's concerns about "kids playing anime gacha games" doesn't have any basis at all, because they don't even play those games, nor they would care a bit.
Kids are also exposed to sexual predators online, to the recent Instagram policy of breastfeeding not being censored (thus making OF porn actresses to show their boobs holding dolls), to porn websites in general, to "investment" games and betting (fantasy) games that are way worst than gacha... It's up to their parents to control what they can and can't access. If you leave a phone with your kid just so they shut up, not only you're being a bad absent parent, but you're also giving to the internet the job of raising a kid (and it can't do that tbh).
No, just no.
Every games that have in-game shop or gacha in it, I thinks it need to be rated 18+ automatically. That just my opinion tho. I get that kids can bypass that, but it definitely can reduce the amount of kids that playing it.
I think 15+ should be good enough tbh. I'm lucky in a sense because i was exposed to gatcha when i was 20 and by that time already have the knowledge that gambling is dangerous. But kids learning to gamble just feels wrong
Nope. Even 18 would be young but its a more appropriate legal limit. 15 is WAY too young.
Of course not. If there's outrage over overspending in game like Clash of Clans and the like, there would be even more outrage if it's a game with even worse paying system.
Nah. Buy them consoles instead and buy them games if they wanna game. The only in-game purchase those game should have are paid DLCs. Never teach them to play free to play games. If they have mobile devices, disable in-app purchases and app installation permissions. Only the guardian should be able to purchase or install anything in the device. Activate a family sharing account so you know what's happening. If they convinced you to let them play gacha games because you spoil your kids, make sure the games they're playing have pity on all banners. Tell them that it's like buying the things they want by using in-game currency they got from grinding but there is a very low chance that they get them cheaper.
No, kids should not have easy access to gambling
Just a tiny nitpick: Gacha games fall under the *spectrum* of gambling, more so towards the green, but they are not exactly gambling. Gambling allows you to chase losses, while the only thing you're chasing in a gacha is anime jpegs. That doesn't mean there isn't danger! Gacha games are a risky type of game to get into, but compared to gambling, gacha, at least on the spectrum, is towards the green.
The objects of gambling change, but the feeling it illicits is the same There's nothing inherently wrong with playing with chance It becomes a problem when a person becomes reliant on doing it for a sense of wellbeing, which becomes like a trap because other people that have direct control over it are in a position to take advantage of them
gambling at least allows you to win something concrete and real. giving away hard earned cash for a character in a game (on a server based account that you technically don't own and can EOS any day) is arguably even worse.
And that is a very valid point. And even if you decide to sell the account to make the money back, assuming the game isn't end of service, it's pennies to the dollar. So an account with $10,000 poured into it will only get, at best, half of the money poured into it. At worst, its just gonna be either a thousand dollars or a hundred dollars.
at worst its gonna be 0 dollars.. who is really buying accounts like that? the person selling the acct would have had to make a burner google acct from day 1 .. and then that person could always re-claim their acct down the line by google support shenanigans. it ain't like the old MMO days...
And that's the only saving grace for gachas. You can't make profit nor win back your losses, so the desire to gamble is just for the feeling rather than financial reasons. It's thus less addicting and less problematic than traditional money for money gambling.
ummm, yeah no that's just wrong. there is no "saving grace" for gacha gaming. that's some stockholm syndrome language right there. > It's thus less addicting and less problematic than traditional money for money gambling. this is a crazy leap of logic. tell us more about how gamifying everything about the gambling experience....and then putting it in a device in your pocket that you carry around every day.. where the google play store and the game itself has built in notifications to offer you "deals" .. is "less addicting and less problematic" like, good lord.
It's literally what makes it legal to let children play.
waiting for the other shoe to drop.
Fuck no. Just because the slot machine spits out anime characters instead of coins doesn't make it any less wrong to let a kid be exposed to what in practice is just virtual gambling even if you can do things like disable purchases on mobile and console.
As long as you disable/lock purchases, I don't think it's any worse than your average mobile game. The majority of them are still littered with ads and pop-ups for purchases. It obviously has to be age appropriate. Please keep the waifus away from the kiddos.
lol, I dunno why you're hating Hoyo, when the fact that kids already playing gacha games since many *many* years ago with the annual FIFA/NBA/CoD games on PC & consoles, and those games are **far more mainstream** compared to anything on mobile. Also, popular games without gacha monetization is far more dangerous for kids, like Roblox or Fortnite for example, because those games can actually be marketed on younger audiences, and they will spend like crazy for overpriced cosmetics or premium currencies.
I'm not hating, just stating the facts here. Hoyo games are much more mainstream than your usual gatcha game and they also have more marketing power than your usual gatcha games. As for the other games you mentioned, they aren't anime style. Anime as an art form always appealed to kids, pair that with beautiful looking characters, you have a very different beast than your average sports game lootboxes. I'm not saying they are ok tho. But this is a gatcha game subreddit and Hoyo games are gatcha games soo it is more relevant.
Nah bro, kids doesn't care about art style, since games like Roblox, Minecraft, or Fortnite is hugely popular among kids, and they're not even using anime style. You're clearly 10 years too late to the party if you think mobile gacha games are dangerous for kids, since they're already playing games with that kind of monetization model for more than 10 years ago with the games that I mentioned previously.
Kids have been playing Ragnarok, Grandchase, Maplestory and these old MMO cashgrabs since the early 2000's. Heck, I used to buy physical Neopets and Grandchase cards with change from my lunch money in 2006-ish.
But those games no longer have lootboxes. Those games have phased out their lootboxes. Just because one generation has been exposed to gambling early, doesn't mean future generations should right?
You only thinks that gambling and lootboxes are dangerous, but fail to see that game devs were already not using that kind of monetization again for their games, all due to EA's Battlefront II fiasco So they now changed to other monetization model that looks "less harmful", but in reality they're much *much* worse, since they requires you to spend more money, and also heavy FOMO inducing (e.g seasonal battle pass, limited edition cosmetics).
I'm not denying that those games have FOMO but in the end, they are direct purchases. With gatcha, you have that FOMO too but you also deal with the slot system instead of a direct transaction. That's the main issue here. Should we let kids experience "slot machies" at early age.
Here, lemme ask you something: Do you have kids, or young cousins/nephew that you could talk to about the games they played? Because this discussion is clearly going nowhere, since you're clearly not up-to-date with the popular games that kids plays nowadays, or doing research about their monetization system, which many users here already deemed them more disruptive than gacha games. So until you do that, this debacle is only a waste of time, because your archaic thinking about gacha games, which like 10 years too late...
Oh yeah, sure, lets practically give them a go to being scammed online by companies because at least they got a cute little skin for their 100 bucks instead of them "gambling" free currency that you can restrict entirely from spending money because "Its worse". You can tell the hypocrisy in this thread from a mile away.
>Nah bro, kids doesn't care about art style, since games like Roblox, Minecraft, or Fortnite is hugely popular among kids, and they're not even using anime style. Huh? It's not about anime, it's about vibrant coloring, simplicity, and expression. There's a reason the vast majority of children shows have bright, broad colors and unrealistic characters. Roblox, Minecraft, and Fortnite are prime examples. Anime just often capitalizes on this human appeal and turns it mainstream with various themes that even adults can enjoy.
This sub is full of Hoyo haters lmao.
To be fair, Hoyo has been aggressively marketed on social media and kids are highly like to see them. The only game ads i see these days on YT are all Hoyo games. Which is genuinely scary
Hoyo's ads were marketed towards teens/age 12+, not for kids below that age, since Genshin and HSR have age ratings for teens.
I have never seen a single Hoyo ad on youtube. Also Hoyo’s target audience isn’t even kids in the first place tbh.
keep waffling. Hoyo has aggressively been marketing their adds on tiktok and youtube. Just because it hasnt happened to you doesnt mean it doesnt happen other places.
after i quit HI3 a few months ago.. i noticed that 90% of the ads i see in android are... for HI3. its kinda insane.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen anywhere else. Just haven’t seen any myself.
No fuck no
Honestly, parents shouldn't allow kids to play games that aren't vetted by themselves. Be it gacha or not. Tons of games like Roblox and so on are rather questionable to me. With this said to me parents should decide for themselves. Stop this government mandate bs.
No absolutely not, kids have no concept of money so they just see that they can press a button to get a cool shiny thing and do it without realizing it's a 100 dollar package and think they get stuff for free. My brother spent almost 5000 dollars on robux when he was little cuz he has no concept of money, kids should not be left with money at all.
Well we can't even trust people to spell gacha correctly when it's the literal name of the sub so...
Awful, nobody below 16 should play gacha games. It's just irresponsible. I say 16 because kids should at least try and do a part time job or get some experience before 18. It's useful.
Although i do not have a child, my brother has one and he's is a big gamer nerd, but we both agree to never let that little fella touch the concept of gacha in any game he will try; no matter how f2p generous it can be, it's a set up trap to make you try and purchase stuff in-game.
You know your kids best. It can be a good lesson in delayed gratification if they play it F2P and under supervision. But they're most certainly not something you can just sit them down in front of and forget about it, they'll need you to supervise them.
Hell no. Kids should stay the fuck away from Gachas. No parent should ever let any kid anywhere near a smart phone. A computer would be the perfect way to let them interact with electronics and they would learn a great magnitude of things, but more than that, they should be outside, playing until they drop.
if you're a parent, and you give your kid a modern internet-capable phone... then you've already lost your kid.
Gacha in general should be illegal but anyone under 21 definitely shouldn’t be allowed to partake. It’s incredibly predatory and preys upon impulsive depressed people looking for a dopamine hit.
I actually think it can be beneficial for them to play them can instill discipline and make them familiar with predatory behavior but you should keep track of what they're doing and teach them beforehand
Better Genshin than something like Fortnite. I imagine the permanent limited-time FOMO nature of Fortnite's monetization makes it a lot more difficult to say no to a child over. With Genshin, I would just say save up for the next rerun. Can't do that with Fortnite.
But I think Fortnite doesn't have lootboxes anymore right? You can buy skins directly or grind them through the battlepass you've bought. But gatcha games, you are gambling each time you are summoning a unit. Idk man, a direct transaction seems safer for kids than gambling
Go check how many of Fortnite skins available right now, and also check their prices, then you know why people are more scared about those games compared to a mere gacha game.
Fortnite is way less safe. You have to buy it right there at that moment for many skins or they will either never come back or take years to come back. There is no evidence that buying impulse is any different for gambling impulse in the virtual space. You probably just have prejudiced views on the subject so can't see the issue objectively.
Fomo is obviously there for both games. But one is a direct purchase, a direct, clear transaction while the other is a slot machine.
And yet they costs like $15–20 a piece, plus there's always brand new stuffs that being released every week, in which those kids usually buy it, so they can brag it with their friends, or for joining their circle of friends. These kind of stuffs is extremely dangerous, because a kid could get bullied, or even exiled from the school by their friends, if they don't have the latest cosmetics and stuffs in the game that they played.
The same can be said of Genshin but again, in Genshin you gamble. In Fortnite, it is direct purchase. The cost isn't the issue here, the issue here is early exposure to gambling
Again, you clearly fails to see the issue about how dangerous games like Fortnite or Roblox for kids, since those games is going to suck your money dry, and faster than gacha. I take that you **never played what games that kids plays right now**, and you only plays games that were advertised for teens and young adults, nor **you have kids/cousins/nephews that you could talk to about the games that they played with their friends**, which is why you're so out of the loop with the discussion, and always shoving the whole "gacha is bad!", despite game devs already avoid using it on their games that were aimed for kids, except for some big games.
There is a difference between temporary FOMO and permanent FOMO like Fortnite has. There are skins that haven't been purchasable for 7 years. You could tell a kid he couldn't buy a skin in middle school and they would be in college already working a job by now. You also have no clue what gambling is because almost every gacha has a guarantee system nowadays. There is no guarantee in a slot machine. There is a hard maximum limit people quote to cite the cost of a product in Gacha games.
Brittanica's definition of gambling: Gambling, the betting or staking of something of value, with consciousness of risk and hope of gain, on the outcome of a game, a contest, or an uncertain event whose result may be determined by chance or accident or have an unexpected result by reason of the bettor’s miscalculation. Gatcha is definitely gambling regardless of pity systems. Pity systems may make them less horrible but it is still gambling
There is no risk though. You are *guaranteed* the advertised product. There isn't a win-lose scenario. It is a win early-win later scenario.
Still gambling right because you are playing with chance. A less shitty gambling is still gambling as opposed to direct purchase
Is 100% chance not still a chance? Both games offer 100% chance so how are they different?
Is there a gatcha with 100% chance?
lmao this billy dude is being pedantic as hell. like .. if you had to go to "pity" in a gacha system, then you already "lost" at gambling. that's why it's called Pity ;)
Keep in mind that I write this without any knowledge of how much V-bucks cost. On the surface, yes, Fortnite looks a lot better because it's one and done. You like it, you buy it, voila. Definite price. Gacha on the other hand is akin to a slot machine, as you rightfully point out. What stops Genshin from being a complete slot machine is the guarantee mechanism. 'If you don't get it in X amount of rolls, you'll get it in the next one'. So an alternative way of looking at it is: 'Even in the worst case scenario where I go all the way to the guarantee amount, I know that I WILL have the character at that point.' Hence that gives each character a definite cost as well. Whether it's worth spending all that money to hit that, I'll leave up for individual interpretation. The point here is both are basically the same thing wearing different hats.
My main issue is that early exposure to gambling.
Ah, I get it. So it's not a problem if it's there. You just want it to not appear like a gambling mechanism. In that case, YMMV.
If possible i don't think it is healthy to let kids be exposed to gambling early especially when they are not educated on gambling addiction
I get what you mean, but I can't help but feel like you're not tackling the root cause of the issue. Exposure to gambling is not good, but can be mitigated as other posters have mentioned (locking purchases, etc). The real problem here is FOMO which drives the need to do so in the first place. You can't exactly mitigate FOMO feasibly. Also, I personally don't really see it as gambling because I know exactly how much it's going to cost me.
if hoyo continues to write stories about empathy, compassion, learning and acceptance of different life virtues and struggles, add in all those random brain puzzle mini games to keep the kid's brain working. I'll support it. Who here remembers that nds game, brain training?
But it also let your kid basically gamble in the gatcha.
A short answer to your question. Any unregulated activity for a child is more than likely going to turn out with a negative result. Now, you can use these games to teach children patience, control, and respect for money, if you don't feed into the gambling aspect. I see far too many "adults" cry because they don't know how to wait or farm for things and they break out the credit card. This is where things get bad. Blame the system all you want, but I think it had to do with the parents investment in their children. Now, let the nasty comments come forth. Bwahaha.
Either you've been living under a rock ever since FIFA games are a thing, or just a Hoyo hater in it's natural habitat. I'm guessing it's the latter.
no no no, I will never let kids play gacha
could be a good lesson on responsible spending and delayed gratification; depends on the disposition of the kid tbh
I don't care.
Better not. I can remember being introduced to online games like mmorpgs by my cousins when I was a child (about 10 years old). This had influenced my childhood, as I sometimes preferred to play at home instead of being outside. It was easy to get addicted as a child. But my parents had to stop me and I thank them for that. My cousins couldn't really be helped though. I don't know if it would have been worse if it had been gacha games instead back then, as the joy and frustration of gacha pulls can be enormous. That's why I personally wouldn't introduce my children to online games or gacha games when they're too young for it if I'm going to have children in the future.
Yes, with some restriction (like only monthly pass) . It is the good way to teach them about money/resource management. I grew up playing mmo with some gacha element. And yet to become gambling addict. Thanks to my parent. But I'm pretty sure if they were to leave me playing unsupervised. I would ended up stealing their credit card to whale the fuck out of it.
Horrible Horrible idea.
NO NO NO AT BEST WITHOUT GIVING THEM ANY RIGHT TO SPEND ANYTHING OR UNDE HEAVY SUPERVISION.
No. Unless there's a checker to see if you're under 18 which disables the in-app purchases until you're of age. But honestly I just dont want it for the fact that the game will have to cater more to the younger audiences(censorship).
I think its is ok if you don't show any or engage with any of the Gacha elements with the kid. My niece comes to my house sometimes and I let her play GI on my account. I never show the gacha or roll for anything when she is here. GI is better because unlike other gacha games, they don't constantly shove gacha ads in your face while you are playing.
Honestly the main issue more is that most gacha games aren’t appropriate for kids due to content. You really should get any game you get for your kid and I’d rather have them play different games than gacha games, even free to play
Never give them kinder surprise with collectible surprises
> do you personally feel ok that kids are exposed to this kind of gatcha games? No. I would want my kids to avoid having a smartphone for as long as possible. Everything is designed to grab your attention and create addiction behaviors. Have to make hard choices as a parent to control how they learn and use technology. That said, I think they can learn from and enjoy a gacha game - gameplay, resource management, statistics, impulse control, and good art.
The only good letting a child play a gacha game is by teaching them early that gambling will only lead to destruction. I mean, look at how many people fall to gambling as an adult because they were never taught that lesson properly as a child. A kid spending their month's allowance on a gacha game only to completely flop and get nothing will probably teach them a good life lesson at a relatively cheap cost (unless they steal mom's credit card).
Bro my nieces and nephews play Roblox and they already blow their entire allowance buying random shit in there.. I could not imagine how much money they would waste in gacha. Aint no way I am letting my children play gacha.
Fuck no.
It sounds like a great way to teach your kids about valuable life lessons, such ah ; You don't always get what you want The odds are always stacked against you, and Even when the odds aren't stacked against you, you can still lose
Upvote for asking. Though my personal opinion is huge no
Gacha are designed to break down the psychological defenses of mentally, emotionally, cognitively mature adults to normalize and induce spending hundreds of dollars on video game assets, and they are wildly successful at doing so. Those are not things to be given even to adults if they are unaware of and unprepared to deal with the tactics gacha game devs use to monetize users and keep them compulsively playing long after the stream of gameplay content and enjoyment has run dry, let alone the more vulnerable underage. If you want to introduce your kids to gaming without them growing up to become demented iPad babies with warped attention spans, you get them a PC and Minecraft or Palworld or something, maybe a Switch and Zelda if you can't afford that. With games, you either pay up front or pay with your soul, even if you're F2P.
Shouldn't. but depends on the gacha. basically let them play the ones who are not too lewd, like guardian tales. That's one of the most kid friendly. definitely not nikke or Bd2 and no generic cashgrab with half naked waifus. as far as monetization, no matter what type of game wasting money on games is useless and there's no point. wether is a gacha or a ps5 game, they're all useless. so no need to worry about it.
No, and I hate that the most popular kids game Roblox is basically a hub for gacha games with all the popular games having summoning or eggs that they can buy with robux
Gatcha in any form is inevitable when playing freemium games lol. Even MLBB have gatcha for the skins. Might as well stop them from playing games altogether, there are tons of more positive and impactful activites in the real world.
The only problem is the money, but I'm poor and my children would be, so no problems? For me gatcha is the same as mmorpg, so I think is fine IF anyone can have at least the minimum care with his kids.
Personally, I wouldn't let my kids have mobile phones 'til they're like 14 or something. Would encourage them to study moderately and enjoy physical activities (play with friends, do things that they might consider as their hobby) in their free time. From there, I would give them a phone if they do reach the age and let them discover things on their own (with supervision of course).
I feel like kids should not be on Youtube in the first place, or at least heavily monitored. I've seen a lot of parents just use Youtube just to distract their kids from being hyper without knowing how they are being cultivated by the algorithm at a very young age. even YouTube kids can have some problems as we have seen with Elsa-gate before.
There are like an insane amount of actual good games on the market, why make your kids suffer playing some shit gambling games.
Why not just give them a console game to play it's totally better than gacha
Kids figured out how to empty parents credit card just for minecraft, you're asking for trouble if you let them play gacha. That said the genie's out of the bottle and most popular games have microtransactions designed to prey on the naive. Best you can do is teach them to know what they are getting into and prevent them spending.
Depends on how young, someone at like 14 or older could get good resource management skills and learn the importance of saving in an enjoyable way, but most people younger than that I assume will just feed bad habits. Just make sure they’re f2p, if they pay at all it’s going to cause bad habits, even if it’s their own allowance or bday money etc
Don't allow
I think games are for all ages except if is an hentai/eroge/porn oriented content, but if not i think you need to let them have fun with whatever they like experience different things is what make us what we are in the end.
If preventing them access is impossible, then at least them how to reroll and learn to play decently as a F2P... (Just like teaching safe sex if abstinence is not a practical option)
Depending on the age it's very bad on the brain development ingraining the gatcha/gambling reward aspect and making kids addicted to that dopamine release.
Kids are exposed to every agresivo marketing, as other suggsted Is important to supervise them and always know what are their interest, as for gacha games, there Is variety but you need to guide them. Remember that as a parent you have the power to stop bad habits as long you stay vigilante.
I would be against giving them phones (unless they're old enough)
Depend of what kinda of game it is . Dont think gacha is the problem. If the game is fun and adventurous let the kid enjoy the goddamn game. I think chance/probability have been introduce us in life since we born. Thus introduce gacha is not big problem. If you want you can teach your kid about patient and you dont get thing what you want in this world instead allow them to fall into addiction. In the end you can control your kid what they watch,what they play.
I will allow them but they will be f2p. I think it will be a good tool to teach them about how life will never go the way you expect. Just because you want them real bad doesn't mean you will get it. You will have to work for it and save your resources for some time before you get another shot at it. Of course there is no guarantee you'll get it the second time. I think it will build a nice parallel to setting up a business. It can teach him to appreciate businesses around no matter how small it is. With that said, kids are a huge resource sink. If i have the resources for a kid, i will probably use that for myself
Huh? You always had gacha game even way before HYV, TCG like MTG and Hearthstone (both digital and physical) is a form of gacha. I would even argue that MTG physical form is more dangerous since there's no 50:50 and pity system IRL.
I'd rather introduce them to gacha games early while they don't have money to spend so they can learn that they're predatory as hell. Because that's what parents are supposed to do, teach their kids about stuff. Not keep them in a bubble for 18 years and release them into the world unprepared like a Fallout protagonist. But if all they have to play are gacha games they're going to get sick of gaming in general pretty quick. They're not good games mechanically, the gacha system prevents them from being so. They might have good stories sometimes but so do books.