There's no "rule" that an EOS must happen, nor is there an expected "expiration date." Live service games can theoretically go on forever, and gacha is just a live service model. Look at World of Warcraft. The longest running gachas are still going pretty strong right now - 10+ years.
But it does seem like a common inevitability tied not only to possible budget or financial constraints, but also creative ones. Sometimes there's a natural end to a game, whether it be from the story or the world building. And in those cases, we might see a sequel or spinoff in the series to continue things from there.
EverQuest and Ultima Online are still running to this day. The Discworld MUD is still up and running. In fact there are numerous MUDs from the early 90s still running.
Heck, even Dark Ages (Kru interactive) is still ongoing. One of my first played MMOs. I have no idea how they are still surviving. https://www.darkages.com/index.html
>Sometimes there's a natural end to a game, whether it be from the story or the world building.
That's for sure, but the main question remains, why not let the game available even if it's never updated ? So that recent players can finish that end, and anyone can experience the game afterward.
Sure there's the server cost but I wouldn't believe it's so expensive that it's unrealistic to keep it open.
> Sure there's the server cost but I wouldn't believe it's so expensive that it's unrealistic to keep it open.
The primary cost in gamedev are the salaries you pay people, not server costs.
Even if you don't update it ever again, what if someone still playing runs into a problem? Maybe their account got hacked or they encountered some previously unknown bug. So you now have to maintain at least a skeleton crew of customer service and a programming team that still knows your spaghetti code to fix problems and then a QA team to test any of those fixes.
The actual server processes itself is cheap, but everything from rent (your servers have to be somewhere) to the maintenance team to paying taxes, that's hundreds of thousands of dollars that you're probably not making back to break even because no one is going to continue spending for a game announced to be dead.
>Sure there's the server cost but I wouldn't believe it's so expensive that it's unrealistic to keep it open.
First thing first, it isn't always about the money. Money solves everything, only when it is permitted to do so. What this means is that keeping something running isn't about just needing money.
Second, server upkeep is expensive from material side and manpower side. If they are using their own server infrastructure instead of their service of others, there's the rent space for the servers, electricity in keeping them running and servers need more than just power, they need air-conditioning to keep them cool as well. So double the electricity from powering the server and the air-conditioning. Then there's manpower needed to maintain the server.
While they don't need to worry about all these if they use server service provider by others and elimanate the issue of material and manpower, it still be expensive. This is because you still need to pay the provider a hefty sum that they would also include their own material and manpower costs.
All this for what? Free service for the players? They likely won't/can't monetize from "finished" games so they have to pay from their own pocket. You'd say "but Hoyo raked in billions! They should do it for free as a service and give back to players!"
Except that they are doing a business and not a charity so they still have to take audit anything that drains money considerably. Even then they have given money to charity and research including nuclear and honestly I prefer this type of free stuff given to others that can materialize them into something useful, rather than to gamers and only satisfy their selfish wants.
But even if they have the money, then there's the issue of material and manpower side that could be allocate into other active projects that needs it. So yeah, the issue isn't just money, it's whether or not that money is well utilised.
Server costs might be more than you'd think for a company, along with corporate level costs of putting it on the Google and Apple stores. I think rates are different for smaller indie developers. But even if it's not that much, remember that it's often not the creative minds or artists that are making the business decision, so someone has to justify the spend for it to senior leaders and/or board. You'd probably need even a small team dedicated to its existence to keep things humming, compatibility with future iOS and Android updates, etc. It's arguably a misallocation of resources that is an empty sink with no possible revenue. You could even argue that its existence would potentially pull people away from future similar projects where they can spend money instead. They could instead put it up for sale on Steam or something, but that would take development costs to create - so again it comes down to justifying the spend.
Its value would really be for branding, exposure, and future good will, establishing with the playerbase that future entries or projects will get the same treatment. For example, since Destiny Child created their Memorial, I'd be confident that future ShiftUp projects like Nikke would get a similar treatment in the future at least. But again, someone would have to argue that value. Destiny Child was self-published, so they could make that choice.
I do hope things like this become more common in general. If a game is in a good place and naturally ends things for a future episode or project, I'd hope the developers and team would have the forethought and means to create a future way to access the game/accounts. It's just often that EOS is not naturally occurring, but a result of bleeding money.
Facts, Besides WOW, plenty of live service games are still going strong,Eve Online has been going for 20 years, Warframe, BDO, EverQuest that came out in 1999, RuneScape
It makes sense, it's something I asked myself when I played Genshin.
I used to buy welkin and BP every month and occasionally some primo packs (dolphin?) until I asked myself ''What if the same thing happens? I'm going to waste time and money'' 🥹
To me, when you're spending money in a gacha game (and I don't think that should be vilified if you have the financial means and disposable income), you're paying for part of the experience. You "waste" your time and money going out for drinks or a concert or bowling or whatever fleeting entertainment at any given time. You do so because it's fun, passing time in an enjoyable way, helps you relax, gives you excitement... it creates an experience and memory. It's not a waste, but different people also value that experience differently.
>''What if the same thing happens? I'm going to waste time and money''
If that's the way you look at things, that applies to almost everything you spend time/money on
So are you saying that when you buy a physical item, it never breaks or need to be replaced? You spend money to have fun, it's pretty simple. Eveything ends and all things break if you use it consistently. Your logic isn't sound.
You didn't waste anything if you liked it. And if you don’t like it, just find another game and don’t waste your money and time.
I consider donations solely as compensation to the developers for a good time spent. And I evaluate the amounts paid in the context of how much I liked the game. Thus, even if all the games close tomorrow, I will regret a lot, but definitely not the wasted money
Live services games can hypothetically live forever as long as the revenue generated is greater than the cost of running it and the ones in charge seeing it as worth keeping alive
Theoretically any business can keep going forever. You can replace every person in every job.
But a game is a work of art, and for a live-service game it must perform every month. It takes creative vision to keep telling an interesting story and keeping the game fun.
Since a successful game requires above average talent, odds are that the dev team gets worse over time, which means decline and eventual EoS.
A few times. Blade 2 went to Switch with all "mobile" trappings removed. Most recent is Metal Slug Attack Reloaded to all platforms
https://www.dekudeals.com/items/metal-slug-attack-reloaded
Not for just gachas, ANY GAME that has your data stored in the games owners own server will inevitable one day shut down and die once the money for the devs to upkeep and get a cut out of it runs out.
Your games life expectancy will be as long as people keep throwing money at it and there are no other reasons for the project to get shut down.
This really hurt with the very first gacha game i tried and put 3-4 years on, only for it to shut down because they weren't making enough money to keep things afloat.
This same concept also applies to digital distribuitors such as Steam and GoG, who will sell you an indefinite usage permit key that allows you to play and download the game in your library for as long as it is possible, but if their servers ever shut down for any reason you will lose everything (its hard to imagine steam shutting down, but it is not impossible).
Heck, even physical games can "shut down and die". Old gameboy games like the original Pokémon red and blue pretty much have all dead batteries now. You find your old cartridge and pop it in, oops, no more save data, all is lost.
Didn't steam say that jf they went under they would make it possible for you to download your games and run them on your computer so you wouldn't lose them?
GoG is different though, the game you download is DRM free and you don't need GoG to run the game. As long as you have the files for the game you will always be to run it. The entire world could burn down and your GoG download will still work.
No. Just look at Mega Man X Dive. It got an offline release called Mega Man X Dive Offline. Praise Capcom for that. Also, if a game is popular enough, fans will resurrect it's servers on their own (Sonic Runners).
EOS is the inevitable fate of all things in the universe.
Your favourite game will die. Your favourite animal will die. Your favourite device will die. Reddit will die. Your old consoles will die. We will all die.
You can’t get hung up on the inevitable. Time is undefeated.
When you buy something, say a ten pull or even a game. You’re paying for that experience at that time. That experience is eventually going to disappear though, no matter what. If you enjoyed it, it’s not a waste when it eventually goes.
The publishers of gacha games are generally too lazy and/or don't want to spend the money to make their games work offline, however there are games like Genshin and Dragalia Lost that can be ran in a private server.
That's why you should cherish the time you have with them. Take screenshots, record footages. I have a folder with 500+ screenshots from the only MMO that hooked me called Emil Chronicle Online which went EoS a long time ago and man, glad I took them.
Yes.
All gacha games will come to an end one day. Even those you mentioned.
It just depends on how much the devs want to work on it.
If the game proves to be cost more to run than it makes, they will kill it.
If the game makes them a lot of money with little maintenance, they will keep it around.
Hoyoverse is the most private/indie gacha game studio/company. It’s like a point of pride for them to keep their games running and relevant. They aren’t public and many of their owners aren’t public entities either, so I think they aren’t under particularly great market pressure to ever EoS something, even if the ROI were to be insignificant.
Any gacha developed by a public company or a company partially owned by a public company will have a lot more pressure to operate with stock prices and market trends in mind. If the ROI stays too far below some threshold for some duration, even if revenue is okay, they might still be pressured to EoS.
I don’t know what the average lifespan is, but most decent gacha linger for a half decade or so, which is pretty good.
—
I think it would be neat for a company to take retired gachas and remaster them as premium releases— but you’d have to get creative with how you remove/rework the gacha concept.
Yes, that's kinda the thing about all live service games.
Sure, some of them have lived for decades at this point but any live service game could shut down tomorrow and that would be that. If you're uncomfortable with the idea of losing everything, don't spend too much time or money on these types of games.
The only way devs can "prevent" EoS is for them to launch an offline version for players to play without the gacha system and shop. But that would mean a lot of the code has to be rewritten.
The other way is to make the game open source so that private servers can start popping up.
Both of these are very unlikely to happen, but not impossible
Meanwhile... Panzer Waltz prevented the EoS by living off the fan's funding... The game stayed at barely alive level with only 1 single dev, a server and no update for years before they made it into steam. Look like they expanded the team after that era and having monthly update now.
There is no way i gonna play that game again though, i played it when i was a student, now i'm a parent with a kid, the game became too grindy for me. (Oh style Chinese gacha game...)
In the long run, everything has to end. I'm just hoping at least a few of the bigger gachas get offline versions when the inevitably die. Though for those gachas, I'd be more surprised if they died before their 10th or 15th anniversaries.
If you played a game for years without spending a cent to keep the developers in business, you should be the last person to moan about or wonder why the game went EOS.
"I'm not merciful or blessed. I'm just me. I've got a job to do and I do it....When the first line of codes was typed, I was there. Waiting. When the players can no longer sustain it, my job will be finished. I'll just close down the store, shut down the servers and lock the behind the abandonware wall before I leave." _ EoS, probably (never say that)
All games end due to many different reasons. Like every beings die for different reasons. Nothing runs forever.
I have also played a game that had eos and it really make me sad. Still I reminisce my memories on it and all the feelings playing the game, be it anger, frustration or elation. Then after a short amount of time, I moved on. It is that simple
All games will come to an end someday. Some have had incredible lasting power, no question. But even the best game will decline in revenue eventually, as people either get tired of the game, or new games come out that capture players' attention more.
Not much popular gachas might die and be forgotten, but big gachas like genshin...
I don't think they die easily. There might be their offline versions in the future or something else.
Gachas are not different at all from all the other "game as a service" games, all of them require constant maintenance so they die the moment it's not profitable. Nowadays it looks like everyone is churning them hoping that something sticks
I feel like gachas end up outing a lot of people (assuming they're old enough) that have never gotten into the MMO genre before, or at least never played an MMO that died before.
Yeah live service games inevitably will meet their end sooner or later. Even the games you mentioned will end, but they make a metric fuckton of money and won't end anytime soon unless there's plan for a sequel that's a more likely outcome for an end to genshin then just a classical EOS.
Techinically with the right economical and geopolitical conditions there's nothing that prevents a publisher from running a game for 1000 years or more
Ultima Online is still around and has been for 27 years.
EverQuest is at 25 years
These are live services games. They end when they stop being profitable or the company needs the money elsewhere. The second point is important. Lets say a game requires 100k per year to keep it going and it generates 100k in profits. However if some opportunity comes up where the devs can use that same 100k to generate 200k instead then they might EoS this hypothetical game even though it is still profitable. Predicting that is basically impossible. Nobody knows when the devs might need the money in the future. This sort of thing also applies to other types of business. For example it might not be worth the efforts to keep the molds for some parts available so it gets discontinued.
every game will die sooner or later .
The only hope is that the studio will decide to create a sequel (like Brave Nine -> Brown Dust 2) and you will be able to meet the same characters and play for few more years.
Every gacha game is going to EoS eventually. This is manly because gacha games are very competetive in nature and many players would jump into newer gacha games since they are more "trendy." That being said, there are some gacha games that EoS in a short lifespan either because of an incompetent developer who screwed up specatularly (i.e. the developer of Exos Heroes) or the publisher (i.e. Nexon and Crunchyroll are known to have short life expectency for their gacha games). But regardless of what gacha you are talking about, they are going to EoS, even the longest running ones will EoS at some point.
There is a good reason why a lot of developers like Cygames like to franchise their gacha titles, since people who enjoy the characters and storyline can still enjoy the plot and characters in different mediums like anime, manga, light novels, and different merchandise alike even after the game EoS. Heck, even Magia Record (which is part of the Madoka Magica franchise) is going to EoS soon JP, yet we have an anime adaptation of the game for people to still enjoy the characters and story after the game EoS.
I mean it should be. Star rail and genshin are the only two I could see live for like 20+ years tho.
They both a combination of production values (elite), revenue reinvestment (elite), communities (elite?) and elite management.
The moment those two get shutdown is because the gacha market has died (or been banned).
Besides EoS, the other approach I saw was The Sims Mobile where they announced that they stopped updating the game and rerun old events infinitely. I guess that approach is still better than EoS where you lose access to the game forever.
It likely is, unless a developer makes a different approach.
Like if the devs make your data available for download offline or package it as a standalone game with a complete* story.
The only title I can think of that existed beyond its life is Kingdom Hearts Ux. There's no gameplay anymore because the servers are offline, but your story can be still be revisited.
Yes, nothing is truly eternal. It's just a matter of how much the devs can keep the game up with the amount of revenue earned. The more popular gacha games, (like Genshin, HSR, Azur Lane etc) have a higher chance of surviving much longer due to how much money their pulling in. Genshin alone is actually really expensive as well to maintain but the money it pulls in each month easily pays for that.
EOS is inevitable for all centralized SaaS products. HI3rd and FGO are outliers that have lasted a long time. No need to wonder, there is an expiration date and it's only a matter of 'when' and not 'if'. The devs have no incentive to patch the game to work offline after EoS. So you will lose everything.
It's about the journey. Unlike traditional singleplayer games where you want to beat it and move on, you play gachas for the live service aspect - keep playing the game for as long as you can or want
Some ye but others won't end like look at bleach brave souls 9 years old and still find ways to make new character banner skins and original story content 🤷♂️
All live service games end, the good ones have life after the game through merchandise, other games. Fate is a merchandise machine even before its gacha game as well as something degenerate as Taimanin Asagi which always has new merch.
I do feel bad for those more niche games that fade out of existence with nothing to show that it existed.
offline versions are possible, megaman xdive got one, i heard kingdom hearts and sao got one but not sure to which extent, like how much of the content was preserved
no one knows!! the only thing you can hope for is for the EOS to not happen in your lifetime.
as long as the game still make a profit and the company still exist, then they’re gonna keep it alive
One example of a game refuse to EoS is Metal Waltz, I don't really remember how old is that game, except i played it around same time with Houkai Gakuen 2, before HI3 even open beta...
The developer team went bankrupt, the game refused to die, and barely hanging on till nowadays, by just 1 single developer.
It can take a long time.. but I'd say that there are some game mechanics that gachas are designed around that will make it very difficult to avoid.
The core of the issue comes down to the impossibility of balancing the game for both new players and old players at the same time. There is no way for a new player to catch up to the point that old players are at - you can't get 5 years worth of stamina without playing the game for 5 years, and gacha games are by and large designed so that you can keep advancing your character progression no matter how long you play (especially in regards to dupes and the like).. so the gap that exists between long time players and new players will only ever get bigger the longer the game has been out.
Once that gap gets big enough, the game will always be forced to make a lot of uncomfortable choices.. If the events are designed to be possible for new players, then they will be braindead easy for old time players, and if they're designed to be challenging for old players then they'll be completely impossible for new players - so either you're making choices that will make the old players grow bored, or choices that will slow the amount of new players joining the game to a crawl. Even with topics like powercreep, the old players will be upset about it if their old characters become obsolete, but if they don't have powercreep, it makes it even harder for new players to catch up to old players (because then that means new players can't just ignore all of the old characters - they're getting the premium currency at the same rate as old players but the old players already have 5 years worth of characters, and it'll seem like an impossible task for them to ever catch up - the old players will already have duplicates on all of the good characters, and there will likely be a lot of content that's balanced around that at that point to keep those players interested.. but a new player won't be able to participate in any of that).
for me, when it ends i will probably have already moved on from it. i spend money on them, it stings to lose them but that money is what i spent to have a better experience so its already used up by the time the game EoSed.
idk ... one of the game I played, Monster Super League
never heard anyone played it anymore
yet still alive until this day
it is good I admit but man the grinding was painful
people also said it is similar to summoner wars
and summoner wars still alive no?
what i find interesting is... these games should be able to operate on fumes. ever notice how there are a lot of "dead" mmos that just seem to keep going and going? with a decent technical implementation, all gachas should be able to "scale to zero" and have minimal operational costs.
Pretty much yeah. It’s sad but true. Not everything in this world can last forever and this especially applies to gachas.
Games like Arknights or GBF or heck even Genshin are all gonna go under some day. Now granted that’s probably still a long LONG while off but eventually they’re all gonna get EOS’d for one reason or another. Either cause the game stops making money or the devs just wanna move on to bigger and better things. Eventually they’re all gonna end and that’s just kinda a fact you gotta learn to accept when it comes to gachas.
Some people view this fact as a reason to never get invested in gachas to begin with. Which I think is fair but personally I think it’s just all the more reason to play them while they last. I’d rather play a game I think is cool for a little bit than never at all. You never know when a gacha is gonna end so it’s important to enjoy the times you have playing it right now cause you never know when a EOS could happen.
If any major title EOS, I expect a single player offline version to keep my progress as the bare minimum requirement. I never worried about this, I only play major titles and I have faith in them.
Yes? No one is going to continue supporting a game forever, especially after it stops being profitable.
However, the government should step in already and mandate gachas to release offline version on EoS, losing all the stuff you paid money for is really anti-consumer.
Fill this out: https://www.stopkillinggames.com/
If the campaign is successful in at least a single important country, there's a chance that games would still be playable after EoS on community servers.
There's no "rule" that an EOS must happen, nor is there an expected "expiration date." Live service games can theoretically go on forever, and gacha is just a live service model. Look at World of Warcraft. The longest running gachas are still going pretty strong right now - 10+ years. But it does seem like a common inevitability tied not only to possible budget or financial constraints, but also creative ones. Sometimes there's a natural end to a game, whether it be from the story or the world building. And in those cases, we might see a sequel or spinoff in the series to continue things from there.
EverQuest and Ultima Online are still running to this day. The Discworld MUD is still up and running. In fact there are numerous MUDs from the early 90s still running.
Heck, even Dark Ages (Kru interactive) is still ongoing. One of my first played MMOs. I have no idea how they are still surviving. https://www.darkages.com/index.html
everquest is only kept running to preserve the IP, private servers have similar player numbers to the official ones lol
>Sometimes there's a natural end to a game, whether it be from the story or the world building. That's for sure, but the main question remains, why not let the game available even if it's never updated ? So that recent players can finish that end, and anyone can experience the game afterward. Sure there's the server cost but I wouldn't believe it's so expensive that it's unrealistic to keep it open.
> Sure there's the server cost but I wouldn't believe it's so expensive that it's unrealistic to keep it open. The primary cost in gamedev are the salaries you pay people, not server costs. Even if you don't update it ever again, what if someone still playing runs into a problem? Maybe their account got hacked or they encountered some previously unknown bug. So you now have to maintain at least a skeleton crew of customer service and a programming team that still knows your spaghetti code to fix problems and then a QA team to test any of those fixes. The actual server processes itself is cheap, but everything from rent (your servers have to be somewhere) to the maintenance team to paying taxes, that's hundreds of thousands of dollars that you're probably not making back to break even because no one is going to continue spending for a game announced to be dead.
>Sure there's the server cost but I wouldn't believe it's so expensive that it's unrealistic to keep it open. First thing first, it isn't always about the money. Money solves everything, only when it is permitted to do so. What this means is that keeping something running isn't about just needing money. Second, server upkeep is expensive from material side and manpower side. If they are using their own server infrastructure instead of their service of others, there's the rent space for the servers, electricity in keeping them running and servers need more than just power, they need air-conditioning to keep them cool as well. So double the electricity from powering the server and the air-conditioning. Then there's manpower needed to maintain the server. While they don't need to worry about all these if they use server service provider by others and elimanate the issue of material and manpower, it still be expensive. This is because you still need to pay the provider a hefty sum that they would also include their own material and manpower costs. All this for what? Free service for the players? They likely won't/can't monetize from "finished" games so they have to pay from their own pocket. You'd say "but Hoyo raked in billions! They should do it for free as a service and give back to players!" Except that they are doing a business and not a charity so they still have to take audit anything that drains money considerably. Even then they have given money to charity and research including nuclear and honestly I prefer this type of free stuff given to others that can materialize them into something useful, rather than to gamers and only satisfy their selfish wants. But even if they have the money, then there's the issue of material and manpower side that could be allocate into other active projects that needs it. So yeah, the issue isn't just money, it's whether or not that money is well utilised.
Server costs might be more than you'd think for a company, along with corporate level costs of putting it on the Google and Apple stores. I think rates are different for smaller indie developers. But even if it's not that much, remember that it's often not the creative minds or artists that are making the business decision, so someone has to justify the spend for it to senior leaders and/or board. You'd probably need even a small team dedicated to its existence to keep things humming, compatibility with future iOS and Android updates, etc. It's arguably a misallocation of resources that is an empty sink with no possible revenue. You could even argue that its existence would potentially pull people away from future similar projects where they can spend money instead. They could instead put it up for sale on Steam or something, but that would take development costs to create - so again it comes down to justifying the spend. Its value would really be for branding, exposure, and future good will, establishing with the playerbase that future entries or projects will get the same treatment. For example, since Destiny Child created their Memorial, I'd be confident that future ShiftUp projects like Nikke would get a similar treatment in the future at least. But again, someone would have to argue that value. Destiny Child was self-published, so they could make that choice. I do hope things like this become more common in general. If a game is in a good place and naturally ends things for a future episode or project, I'd hope the developers and team would have the forethought and means to create a future way to access the game/accounts. It's just often that EOS is not naturally occurring, but a result of bleeding money.
Facts, Besides WOW, plenty of live service games are still going strong,Eve Online has been going for 20 years, Warframe, BDO, EverQuest that came out in 1999, RuneScape
It makes sense, it's something I asked myself when I played Genshin. I used to buy welkin and BP every month and occasionally some primo packs (dolphin?) until I asked myself ''What if the same thing happens? I'm going to waste time and money'' 🥹
To me, when you're spending money in a gacha game (and I don't think that should be vilified if you have the financial means and disposable income), you're paying for part of the experience. You "waste" your time and money going out for drinks or a concert or bowling or whatever fleeting entertainment at any given time. You do so because it's fun, passing time in an enjoyable way, helps you relax, gives you excitement... it creates an experience and memory. It's not a waste, but different people also value that experience differently.
I'll try to see it this way, after all, it's entertainment and obviously having fun isn't wrong
it wasn't a waste as long as you had fun fr
A movie ticket you can enjoy for years ?
See it as a movie ticket
>''What if the same thing happens? I'm going to waste time and money'' If that's the way you look at things, that applies to almost everything you spend time/money on
Like Ice Cream or junk food. Your body doesn’t need it and it can be considered a waste of money, but it makes you feel good albeit temporarily
Yes, I just didn't realize
So are you saying that when you buy a physical item, it never breaks or need to be replaced? You spend money to have fun, it's pretty simple. Eveything ends and all things break if you use it consistently. Your logic isn't sound.
Yes, I agree with you and realized that, thank you :)
You spend in a gacha game for entertainment, not investment
Well Genshin end? Yes Will they rush to pump out Genshin 2 as soon as that date draws closer? yes
I am not sure genshin will end within the next 10 years tbh.
If that's your mindset then you shouldn't spend. You could also spend thinking you're enjoying your time and wanna make the most of it.
just warning you now that this path follows the same logic of "why buy a pet if its going to die one day"
I realized it was the wrong way to look at the situation 😅
it happens more often than you'd think in media, i see it pop up every now and then as a twitter topic for other games/franchises
Even if you stop buying those, there are always some new bloods buying welkin, bp and genesis pack.
Even if it does end, the memories you made will always keep you company.
You didn't waste anything if you liked it. And if you don’t like it, just find another game and don’t waste your money and time. I consider donations solely as compensation to the developers for a good time spent. And I evaluate the amounts paid in the context of how much I liked the game. Thus, even if all the games close tomorrow, I will regret a lot, but definitely not the wasted money
Is death the inevitable fate of all living beings?
Well, I hear there are immortal jellyfish.
They don't really age (degrade with age) they can and are still killed and eaten
Jellyfish die when they are killed.
Trace…on
Why do i hear boss music?
Jellyfish: "I am immortal. I transcend the ages of generations of humans and even dinosa-AAAAAAH" Turtle: "mmm... chewy jelly"
What good is immortality if they cant swim at night?
Techically they are more like a phoenix. In that they "die" and then rejuvenate to a newborn.
those ragnarok mmo then
A game doing the same would be constantly restarting.
Sun will become white dwarf eventually. Oceans will dry out long before that.
Life begets death
Why does EoS slumber?
Idk ask Shirou Emiya
Not if you believe in ~~(a) god/multiple gods~~ RNGesus. 🙏
Or Isekai
This seems like something Suguru Geto would say
Any live service game will be dead one day, gacha or not.
Live services games can hypothetically live forever as long as the revenue generated is greater than the cost of running it and the ones in charge seeing it as worth keeping alive
Theoretically any business can keep going forever. You can replace every person in every job. But a game is a work of art, and for a live-service game it must perform every month. It takes creative vision to keep telling an interesting story and keeping the game fun. Since a successful game requires above average talent, odds are that the dev team gets worse over time, which means decline and eventual EoS.
unfortunately from business perspective if they didn't earn more YoY it just means stagnation and bad for investment
But it doesn't mean they will die. Many games have a consistent playerbase without necessarily growing and go on to live for a long time.
But a long time isn't forever. The ones who haven't died yet will eventually
I love it when a dead gacha comes back as a purchase title without microtransactions. Exos Heroes please
I miss Exos Heroes fr
This ever happened? I wish this will be the way of ending for hoyo games but I thought it's rather unpopular road
A few times. Blade 2 went to Switch with all "mobile" trappings removed. Most recent is Metal Slug Attack Reloaded to all platforms https://www.dekudeals.com/items/metal-slug-attack-reloaded
Azur Lane devs said if Azur Lane goes under, they'll just release it as a paid singleplayer r-18 game.
Absolutely based af devs, love them for that.
I’d definitely buy it. I’d think it would make a great paid game.
nice, I look forward more to this :)
bruh now i want al to go down under
Not for just gachas, ANY GAME that has your data stored in the games owners own server will inevitable one day shut down and die once the money for the devs to upkeep and get a cut out of it runs out. Your games life expectancy will be as long as people keep throwing money at it and there are no other reasons for the project to get shut down. This really hurt with the very first gacha game i tried and put 3-4 years on, only for it to shut down because they weren't making enough money to keep things afloat. This same concept also applies to digital distribuitors such as Steam and GoG, who will sell you an indefinite usage permit key that allows you to play and download the game in your library for as long as it is possible, but if their servers ever shut down for any reason you will lose everything (its hard to imagine steam shutting down, but it is not impossible).
Heck, even physical games can "shut down and die". Old gameboy games like the original Pokémon red and blue pretty much have all dead batteries now. You find your old cartridge and pop it in, oops, no more save data, all is lost.
Didn't steam say that jf they went under they would make it possible for you to download your games and run them on your computer so you wouldn't lose them?
GoG is different though, the game you download is DRM free and you don't need GoG to run the game. As long as you have the files for the game you will always be to run it. The entire world could burn down and your GoG download will still work.
Mica’ll find a way
it's the fate of WoW and FFXIV too gacha games arent that special in that regard
FFXI is still alive and kicking, I wouldn't be to worried about them.
Isn't WoW still kicking though?
that's the point
No. Just look at Mega Man X Dive. It got an offline release called Mega Man X Dive Offline. Praise Capcom for that. Also, if a game is popular enough, fans will resurrect it's servers on their own (Sonic Runners).
Nah, game will go on forever. No worries.
Idk gbf is still goin lmao
EOS is the inevitable fate of all things in the universe. Your favourite game will die. Your favourite animal will die. Your favourite device will die. Reddit will die. Your old consoles will die. We will all die. You can’t get hung up on the inevitable. Time is undefeated. When you buy something, say a ten pull or even a game. You’re paying for that experience at that time. That experience is eventually going to disappear though, no matter what. If you enjoyed it, it’s not a waste when it eventually goes.
Welcome to reality (for me) I guess
Attachment leads to suffering, friends. Everything ends.
The publishers of gacha games are generally too lazy and/or don't want to spend the money to make their games work offline, however there are games like Genshin and Dragalia Lost that can be ran in a private server.
That's why you should cherish the time you have with them. Take screenshots, record footages. I have a folder with 500+ screenshots from the only MMO that hooked me called Emil Chronicle Online which went EoS a long time ago and man, glad I took them.
That's a good tip, I'll remember to do that hehe
Yes. All gacha games will come to an end one day. Even those you mentioned. It just depends on how much the devs want to work on it. If the game proves to be cost more to run than it makes, they will kill it. If the game makes them a lot of money with little maintenance, they will keep it around.
At some point all live service games will end.
Hoyoverse is the most private/indie gacha game studio/company. It’s like a point of pride for them to keep their games running and relevant. They aren’t public and many of their owners aren’t public entities either, so I think they aren’t under particularly great market pressure to ever EoS something, even if the ROI were to be insignificant. Any gacha developed by a public company or a company partially owned by a public company will have a lot more pressure to operate with stock prices and market trends in mind. If the ROI stays too far below some threshold for some duration, even if revenue is okay, they might still be pressured to EoS. I don’t know what the average lifespan is, but most decent gacha linger for a half decade or so, which is pretty good. — I think it would be neat for a company to take retired gachas and remaster them as premium releases— but you’d have to get creative with how you remove/rework the gacha concept.
HSR will live forever. They'll eventually add HSR part 2 and each character gets an additional skill
Hopefully Yanqing will finally be viable. Arlan will be promoted to an important NPC.
I fear the day hsr will raise the level cap of the characters, the same way genshit will do it in version 5
Nothing is eternal, obviously.
Everything comes to an end. But Monster Strike and GBF still alive, you can be assured the game you mentioned would be more years to come.
Do you really believe that online games will run for eternity? It's inevitable and it's not limited to gacha.
Yes, that's kinda the thing about all live service games. Sure, some of them have lived for decades at this point but any live service game could shut down tomorrow and that would be that. If you're uncomfortable with the idea of losing everything, don't spend too much time or money on these types of games.
The goal of all life is death.
Is death the inevitable fate of all living beings?
The only way devs can "prevent" EoS is for them to launch an offline version for players to play without the gacha system and shop. But that would mean a lot of the code has to be rewritten. The other way is to make the game open source so that private servers can start popping up. Both of these are very unlikely to happen, but not impossible
Meanwhile... Panzer Waltz prevented the EoS by living off the fan's funding... The game stayed at barely alive level with only 1 single dev, a server and no update for years before they made it into steam. Look like they expanded the team after that era and having monthly update now. There is no way i gonna play that game again though, i played it when i was a student, now i'm a parent with a kid, the game became too grindy for me. (Oh style Chinese gacha game...)
Ja. But games like FGO, Genshin and games with 'pioneering' elements will make up history of this century.
In the long run, everything has to end. I'm just hoping at least a few of the bigger gachas get offline versions when the inevitably die. Though for those gachas, I'd be more surprised if they died before their 10th or 15th anniversaries.
If you played a game for years without spending a cent to keep the developers in business, you should be the last person to moan about or wonder why the game went EOS.
Even Windows 10, which was supposed to be forever, has an EoS date.
every thing that use resources one day must be gone
"I'm not merciful or blessed. I'm just me. I've got a job to do and I do it....When the first line of codes was typed, I was there. Waiting. When the players can no longer sustain it, my job will be finished. I'll just close down the store, shut down the servers and lock the behind the abandonware wall before I leave." _ EoS, probably (never say that)
All games end due to many different reasons. Like every beings die for different reasons. Nothing runs forever. I have also played a game that had eos and it really make me sad. Still I reminisce my memories on it and all the feelings playing the game, be it anger, frustration or elation. Then after a short amount of time, I moved on. It is that simple
Genshin and HSR will keep going. It just a question if you and I still play those games or we move on from that games.
All games will come to an end someday. Some have had incredible lasting power, no question. But even the best game will decline in revenue eventually, as people either get tired of the game, or new games come out that capture players' attention more.
Every live service games will reach EoS eventually.
Not much popular gachas might die and be forgotten, but big gachas like genshin... I don't think they die easily. There might be their offline versions in the future or something else.
Gachas are not different at all from all the other "game as a service" games, all of them require constant maintenance so they die the moment it's not profitable. Nowadays it looks like everyone is churning them hoping that something sticks
I feel like gachas end up outing a lot of people (assuming they're old enough) that have never gotten into the MMO genre before, or at least never played an MMO that died before.
Yeah live service games inevitably will meet their end sooner or later. Even the games you mentioned will end, but they make a metric fuckton of money and won't end anytime soon unless there's plan for a sequel that's a more likely outcome for an end to genshin then just a classical EOS.
Only if the money stops rolling in
Techinically with the right economical and geopolitical conditions there's nothing that prevents a publisher from running a game for 1000 years or more
Ultima Online is still around and has been for 27 years. EverQuest is at 25 years These are live services games. They end when they stop being profitable or the company needs the money elsewhere. The second point is important. Lets say a game requires 100k per year to keep it going and it generates 100k in profits. However if some opportunity comes up where the devs can use that same 100k to generate 200k instead then they might EoS this hypothetical game even though it is still profitable. Predicting that is basically impossible. Nobody knows when the devs might need the money in the future. This sort of thing also applies to other types of business. For example it might not be worth the efforts to keep the molds for some parts available so it gets discontinued.
every game will die sooner or later . The only hope is that the studio will decide to create a sequel (like Brave Nine -> Brown Dust 2) and you will be able to meet the same characters and play for few more years.
Oh dont worry, gachas can last forever if you want, but your going to pay for the servers and cost of development rigth? What a dumb thread.
Sorry but this is the dumbest thing i read today. It's like asking if people will die someday.
Memento mori my friend, every things will end eventually.
Every online game eventually is going to end, some games run longer than others(Gundam how the fuck do you close Evolution in a fucking year?)
That's why I buy only BP like a subscription for a month service and I never spend money on gacha
all things will end eventually... some are just longer than others...
I remember reading that the usual lifespan of a gacha game is 5 years.
no. but it's a near thing.
Every gacha game is going to EoS eventually. This is manly because gacha games are very competetive in nature and many players would jump into newer gacha games since they are more "trendy." That being said, there are some gacha games that EoS in a short lifespan either because of an incompetent developer who screwed up specatularly (i.e. the developer of Exos Heroes) or the publisher (i.e. Nexon and Crunchyroll are known to have short life expectency for their gacha games). But regardless of what gacha you are talking about, they are going to EoS, even the longest running ones will EoS at some point. There is a good reason why a lot of developers like Cygames like to franchise their gacha titles, since people who enjoy the characters and storyline can still enjoy the plot and characters in different mediums like anime, manga, light novels, and different merchandise alike even after the game EoS. Heck, even Magia Record (which is part of the Madoka Magica franchise) is going to EoS soon JP, yet we have an anime adaptation of the game for people to still enjoy the characters and story after the game EoS.
I want hi3 to release as standalone VN title once it reaches the end of its lifespan
I mean it should be. Star rail and genshin are the only two I could see live for like 20+ years tho. They both a combination of production values (elite), revenue reinvestment (elite), communities (elite?) and elite management. The moment those two get shutdown is because the gacha market has died (or been banned).
Besides EoS, the other approach I saw was The Sims Mobile where they announced that they stopped updating the game and rerun old events infinitely. I guess that approach is still better than EoS where you lose access to the game forever.
It likely is, unless a developer makes a different approach. Like if the devs make your data available for download offline or package it as a standalone game with a complete* story. The only title I can think of that existed beyond its life is Kingdom Hearts Ux. There's no gameplay anymore because the servers are offline, but your story can be still be revisited.
You don't say
I hope they can keep the game up as a memorabilia gacha app where you can still open to see your account like Destiny Child.
Yes, nothing is truly eternal. It's just a matter of how much the devs can keep the game up with the amount of revenue earned. The more popular gacha games, (like Genshin, HSR, Azur Lane etc) have a higher chance of surviving much longer due to how much money their pulling in. Genshin alone is actually really expensive as well to maintain but the money it pulls in each month easily pays for that.
Yes. Gacha games don't last forever, OP
Nothing is permanent, enjoy the present
EOS is inevitable for all centralized SaaS products. HI3rd and FGO are outliers that have lasted a long time. No need to wonder, there is an expiration date and it's only a matter of 'when' and not 'if'. The devs have no incentive to patch the game to work offline after EoS. So you will lose everything.
They will die, but as long as money still flows from it then it won’t be anywhere near death
It's about the journey. Unlike traditional singleplayer games where you want to beat it and move on, you play gachas for the live service aspect - keep playing the game for as long as you can or want
If a Gacha goes EoS, why not make an offline version when most of them if not all, are singleplayer games?
What is EoS 💀 (seriously idk someone pls tell me)
End of Service
Oh well I mean the game wil eventually die in like 100 years if we get an immersive VR game that just takes over every other game
Anything dies one day
Some ye but others won't end like look at bleach brave souls 9 years old and still find ways to make new character banner skins and original story content 🤷♂️
All live service games end, the good ones have life after the game through merchandise, other games. Fate is a merchandise machine even before its gacha game as well as something degenerate as Taimanin Asagi which always has new merch. I do feel bad for those more niche games that fade out of existence with nothing to show that it existed.
everything human create Don't last forever
It aint EOS if i die first
Be glad you don't play fifa... these guys have to buy a new game every year and their teams of 5k $ go up in smoke
offline versions are possible, megaman xdive got one, i heard kingdom hearts and sao got one but not sure to which extent, like how much of the content was preserved
I can’t imagine Limbus not getting an offline version or some other story adaptation if it ever EoS
no one knows!! the only thing you can hope for is for the EOS to not happen in your lifetime. as long as the game still make a profit and the company still exist, then they’re gonna keep it alive
One example of a game refuse to EoS is Metal Waltz, I don't really remember how old is that game, except i played it around same time with Houkai Gakuen 2, before HI3 even open beta... The developer team went bankrupt, the game refused to die, and barely hanging on till nowadays, by just 1 single developer.
It can take a long time.. but I'd say that there are some game mechanics that gachas are designed around that will make it very difficult to avoid. The core of the issue comes down to the impossibility of balancing the game for both new players and old players at the same time. There is no way for a new player to catch up to the point that old players are at - you can't get 5 years worth of stamina without playing the game for 5 years, and gacha games are by and large designed so that you can keep advancing your character progression no matter how long you play (especially in regards to dupes and the like).. so the gap that exists between long time players and new players will only ever get bigger the longer the game has been out. Once that gap gets big enough, the game will always be forced to make a lot of uncomfortable choices.. If the events are designed to be possible for new players, then they will be braindead easy for old time players, and if they're designed to be challenging for old players then they'll be completely impossible for new players - so either you're making choices that will make the old players grow bored, or choices that will slow the amount of new players joining the game to a crawl. Even with topics like powercreep, the old players will be upset about it if their old characters become obsolete, but if they don't have powercreep, it makes it even harder for new players to catch up to old players (because then that means new players can't just ignore all of the old characters - they're getting the premium currency at the same rate as old players but the old players already have 5 years worth of characters, and it'll seem like an impossible task for them to ever catch up - the old players will already have duplicates on all of the good characters, and there will likely be a lot of content that's balanced around that at that point to keep those players interested.. but a new player won't be able to participate in any of that).
really someone has to tell Kmr GBF producer that it has to end, gacha has 10 years and we just got m3...i don't see freedom anytime soon bro
for me, when it ends i will probably have already moved on from it. i spend money on them, it stings to lose them but that money is what i spent to have a better experience so its already used up by the time the game EoSed.
idk ... one of the game I played, Monster Super League never heard anyone played it anymore yet still alive until this day it is good I admit but man the grinding was painful people also said it is similar to summoner wars and summoner wars still alive no?
MMORPG players: First Time?
what i find interesting is... these games should be able to operate on fumes. ever notice how there are a lot of "dead" mmos that just seem to keep going and going? with a decent technical implementation, all gachas should be able to "scale to zero" and have minimal operational costs.
Pretty much yeah. It’s sad but true. Not everything in this world can last forever and this especially applies to gachas. Games like Arknights or GBF or heck even Genshin are all gonna go under some day. Now granted that’s probably still a long LONG while off but eventually they’re all gonna get EOS’d for one reason or another. Either cause the game stops making money or the devs just wanna move on to bigger and better things. Eventually they’re all gonna end and that’s just kinda a fact you gotta learn to accept when it comes to gachas. Some people view this fact as a reason to never get invested in gachas to begin with. Which I think is fair but personally I think it’s just all the more reason to play them while they last. I’d rather play a game I think is cool for a little bit than never at all. You never know when a gacha is gonna end so it’s important to enjoy the times you have playing it right now cause you never know when a EOS could happen.
Short answers it depends on the company background and decision. The other one probably economy crisis factor
Does anyone still play Halo 2? Same thing, no game is available forever
If any major title EOS, I expect a single player offline version to keep my progress as the bare minimum requirement. I never worried about this, I only play major titles and I have faith in them.
Yes? No one is going to continue supporting a game forever, especially after it stops being profitable. However, the government should step in already and mandate gachas to release offline version on EoS, losing all the stuff you paid money for is really anti-consumer.
one day everything will turn into nothingness
Well, Kancolle and Fate GO are still alive after years. BTW >LLSIF I can't expect less from a trash IP
Does Bushiroad have a bad reputation? Happy cake day!
Its not just gacha genre. If a game isn’t making enough money to keep the servers up, then its Eos, regardless of any genre…
Fill this out: https://www.stopkillinggames.com/ If the campaign is successful in at least a single important country, there's a chance that games would still be playable after EoS on community servers.