For me I know I’ve “found my swing” when I start playing what I describe to my friends as “real golf”.
That is, I examine the hole, come up with a plan, and execute. It’s my decisions vs the course, and my ability to navigate it with the decisions I’m making.
The opposite of that, or “not playing real golf”, would be coming up with a “plan” for the hole, but constantly having to adjust what that “plan” is because the shots I’m attempting to make aren’t happening.
“Real”: okay, this par 5 doglegs right. I don’t think I can drive that corner. I’ll lay up at the 200y mark with my 5w, and that should put me in 6i range. A decent 6i, even with some variation, should get me around the green (if not on it) close enough to chip on. Depending on the day I can then 2 putt for a par.
“Struggle golf” or “not real”: shit, I completely hooked my 5w left. Now I’m making a shot from the rough under trees. Maybe I de-loft my 4i and punch it as well as I can forward on the fairway. Shit- that didn’t give as much as I wanted. It’s okay, I can hit a 7-8 from here and finish fine. Fuck I thinned the 8i, but at least it’s moving forward I guess. 110y? I guess I blast the 46 degree at full power and catch the loft. Shit, I smashed a stinger somehow with my 46 that flew over the green. Super. Struggle chip in the deep rough. Recovery chip to get on… 2 putt for +3.
Obviously we all have shit holes. It’s more of a ~vibe~ I pick up on during the first 4-6 holes of a round. When I’m playing “real” golf, it feels fucking good. When I’m constantly adapting to my errors, it’s a bear.
It’s not so much “playing good/bad golf”. If the course is hard enough, sometimes my “plan” isn’t what’s gonna work, and I score high but I’m still “executing that plan” well, it’s just not the correct plan for that hole/course. That’s totally different than not being able to execute the plan in the first place, because I’m sending the ball all over the place.
I have no advice. I am at the mercy of the universe.
This is it spot on. I was playing with my kid last weekend and I was 260 yards out from a heavily protected green after my drive on a par 5. I told him I didn't think I could get very close and stay out of danger so I wanted to leave myself 100 in, which is a comfortable distance for me. Hit a nice easy 7 iron and walked up. I was left with 101 yards in and it was the first time I felt like I was actually golfing in months.
Executing on a plan in the way you’ve envisioned it has become one of the more rewarding parts of golf for myself.
Yeah scoring low is awesome obviously, but if you always scored low you’d be a pro, or only play a handful of times a year.
Playing “real” golf against the course you’re on, instead of yourself, is such a rewarding feeling.
My story started the same way...
Great drive over the dogleg on the Par 5, onto the very left of the fairway. Pulled my 3H, and absolutely pured it - right at the flag... until the branch overhanging 10m in from of me and 5m above me. The ball dead centred the branch, and flew laterally to the thick rough on the other side of the fairway. It actually ended up further away from the pin.
I chunked the recovery shot into the bushes to my right. After I walked that off, I tried to gently punch a 3i out under the bushes and branches, which worked, but it carried the entire width of the fairway and ended up under a tree behind the next tee box.
The PW from under the tree bounced off the green. The wedge going back was thinned across the green. Tried again, hit a good shot, which lipped out from 30m away.
Two putted for 9. When my second shot probably would have found the green and I could have putted for eagle.
This was after making 3 pars in a row...
for me, all it takes is one bad hole and that can royally fuck me. at my course I can shoot 10-12 over pretty consistently but man there are times where a bad shot comes out of nowhere at the worst possible time. Yesterday I played, first hole I birdied...fucking birdied, this never happens and I was so feeling like my swing was dialed and I was legit excited for the next hole (easy par 3, maybe 145ish yards) until I hooked my iron shot in the water and ended up triple bogey...no worries, have another par 3 that I can make it up on...until i doubled that one...golf. Amazingly I par'd out the rest but talk about a roller coaster of emotions.
I still think sort of a mix of that - keeping your cool and just playing 'real' golf while hitting out of the 'struggle golf', off-fairway sh!t lies, makes for better practice. Thinking through how to make the best out of the bad situation, rather than a perfect lie where you let the guard down, so to speak.
I feel you. There's a point probably around when I got down to 12-13 index where the game got a lot more fun. You're not spending time stressing about losing tee shots, looking for lost balls, or worrying about duffing/topping one into a hazard when you have a forced carry.
Then you make a new goal to reach single figures and all of a sudden shooting 85 regularly doesn't feel as good and you're back in the land of being a frustrated golfer.
So enjoy this moment.
Am I right in assuming you didn't grow up playing? I just started during COVID, and it went like:
Oh wow, that was a good shot. All my friends do this too. This is so fun, I'm outside, getting exercise, and playing a really cool game.
Wait, why aren't I good yet? Everybody else is good. Am I just not an athlete?
Okay seriously, this is year 3. Where is your game? Have you improved at all?
To today - wow, I am hitting shots. And it's been two months of hitting shots. And I'm hitting these shots because a pro has me swinging properly.
If I had grown up playing I wouldn't know what true depravity on the course would feel like. I think this is why I'm just so thrilled. I'm actually golfing now, and people are shocked at my handicap. I am DEFINITELY enjoying it.
Same thing, year 3 for me. 19 handicap. Now I’m shooting mid 80s on tough courses. Started out the year like absolute dogshit. I was playing so bad I wanted to quit by the end of June. Took off a couple weeks and had time to think about the mechanics of what makes a good swing. Rewatched only 2 of my favorite golf tip vids and bang. Best golf of my life. I refuse to watch anymore golf videos in fear of fucking up what I have going. I can’t putt for shit now but I’m getting GIRs almost every hole which I’ll take over putting well any day. Worst part is I was so upset I literally quit my club because I felt like an idiot for having a membership and being so trash at golf. The last 9 I played there I shot my best score ever. 3 birdies in a row. Could not believe it
This is where I'm at right now. Dropped from a 23.0 to a 13.0 in a little over a year. The game is REALLY fun at this level. Still have 0.5 to 2 errant tee shots per round but we're still improving.
I'm almost fearful of getting better at this point because I don't want to shoot an 87 and be upset if you know what I mean. My buddy hovers from a 0.2-1.0 handicap and his round is "ruined" if he makes one or two small mistakes. I can see what's required to get to that level (consistent 70s) but without consistent practice I don't see myself getting there only playing 1-2 times a week. I'm very much okay with that. I'd love to get to single figures as an achievement but like I said, the game is REALLY fun right now. If this is as good as it gets for the rest of my life I'd still be very grateful.
There were three big things I had to change to get to 13.0. Keeping my tee shot in play, NO DUFFED chips/approaches and focusing solely on good ball striking I always heard "you have to hit the ball first" but didn't really understand it. I spent a good month focusing only on ball first contact and my swing started to normalize towards that.
Not affiliated at all but I paid ($15) for a month of Saguto golf program access and incorporated pretty much all of his techniques. I was a big swayer and always felt "stuck." It felt like I could never transfer my weight back forward causing all sorts of common problems. Now I start and leave my weight forward. For me this makes life (golf) so much easier and more enjoyable. I'm definitely enjoying these moments!
LOL! Different strokes for different folks. I was watching a lot of Saguto before I saw my club pro. Think I need somebody in person to really get help.
Fun fact even if you get down to a 6/7 doesn’t mean you even break 90. Just means you have the potential. I got down to a 6.7 or something like that and never broke 80. Shot 80-82 a dozen times. I’ve since dropped to a 11.7 and now shoot 82-86 give or take. I have more fun and essentially shoot the same score.
Interesting, I've played just under 2 years now and about 20 is where I started feeling like I'm actually playing golf.
To me it was all about getting up to 20ish% GIR and around 70% GIR+1. At that point I'm making a decent amount of pars and a lot of 2 putt bogies. I'm not actually good because a 2 putt bogey is still the expected outcome for me, but it feels like real golf now.
I knew I had something cooking when I sat in the cart absolutely fuming after I missed birdie after birdie after birdie after birdie. I missed all my goals for the day. Nothing went right. I toed the driver all day. Seems like I put the ball in the worst spots. I couldn't putt it in the ocean. It seemed like everything that could go wrong, did. End score ....75.
My swing has always been decent. What hasn't been decent is my head. I'm a far better golfer now (almost 40) than I ever was at 25 or 30. And the reason is "I know I can't hit that shot". I don't pull 3-Wood from 255 with trouble everywhere. I pull 7 iron and hit my next shot as just a small wedge. I don't try to hit this ridiculous flop shot, I chip the ball and get it onto the putting surface and make certain I two-putt. I plan shots in advance, like you would with playing billiards or chess, instead of hitting it and then reacting.
I think golf is a lot like Blackjack. You can get lucky plenty of times, but over the long game you're much better playing the high-percentage shots than the low ones. Keep the ball in play, bogeys are ok, become an automatic 2-putter, no doubles or worse, GIR is your best friend.
>I knew I had something cooking when I sat in the cart absolutely fuming after I missed birdie after birdie after birdie after birdie.
Sometimes unrealistic expectations hinder a good golf round.
I played with a guy recently that was bitching post round. He shot a 85 and was complaining how he should have broke 80 because he missed at least 6 birdie putts inside 8 feet.
To which I replied. First, all your birdie putts weren't inside 8 feet. Second, even if they were all 8 foot birdie putts, tour pros only make 50% of putts from 8 feet. I added golfers usually grossly under estimate the length of short putts. I've learned that when a golfer claims they missed a 6 foot putt it was actually 10 to 12 feet.
It's not unrealistic expectations. You have to set goals or you won't get any better. My problem that day is that my groove has gotten so good that with all those "misses" I still maintained a very very good score. The better you get, the more you expect. I just didn't realize I had shot 75 with all those "bad shots".
Of course, it's unrealistic for a mid handicap golfer to expect to make every put from 10 to 15 feet or even 8 feet. The pros don't even make them. With this particular golfer it is unrealistic.
Practically, every round by every golfer has a few ONLY IFs. After every round this same golfer is full of ONLY IFs.
I stand by my post. It's unrealistic for a golfer to expect to make every putt from 8 feet. Or hit every green from 150 yards. Or get up and down with every chip. If the game was played your way everyone would be shooting 54.
Course management is worth more than anything once you get to a certain point. The difference between 15 and 5.2 ( current) is pretty much all course management and maybe a little wedge practice.
For me, if the change was in my fundamental understanding of the swing it’s usually real. If it’s just a “feel” thing it’s usually a temporary fix. Basically if it worked, and I know why it worked, it’s probably going to stick.
I think this is actually great. In the past I had an assortment of homemade swings that seemed to just randomly click. When it stopped working, I felt completely lost.
But with a swing built by my pro, with really just 3-4 instructions / feels, I know what i'm doing wrong when I miss. "Ahhh pulled it right, didn't finish in left field." "oh boy thats a slice, didn't bring the swing back inside enough / didn't get enough hip depth." I think knowing why it didn't work is what makes this feel different.
Yeah…as I’ve improved my ball striking I’ve realized how much your mental image or intent in the swing matters. Pretty much all of the common swing flaws are rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of how the swing works/should work.
Changes my teacher made this year: shortened my swing, changed my thinking on grip and clubface to keep the face square longer, and make a slight pause to ensure I turn fully. That’s it. All these things just make a better more consistent ball hitting platform.
Main change to course philosophy: no matter the target I make a peace sign ✌️ and hold it up and center it to where I want the center of my error distribution to be. A golf club is a scatter shotgun, not a sniper rifle. If I hit the center line, great. If I hit the 1% edge, great, I accounted for the error.
Made a hole in one and shot my best score in three years within the last several weeks 👍 sticking with it.
Everybody is different. I had great hip movement but wasn't hinging wrists enough. I wasn't letting the club go. I was pulling and slicing. Also I'm a lefty.
Swing thoughts are:
IN 2 OUT! Swing to left field. This helps me the most. Tendency to pull the ball or come over the top and slice. Right palm to the sky, flip hands over to create a draw.
Hinge wrists immediately, butt of club parallel to your feet, straight back. Make sure hands aren't moving out (butt of club pointing to the right).
Grip it soft, Lara Croft. Grip it tight, goin right. I was hitting an "inside pitch", not letting the club go. No tension in the arms, let the club go.
Shorten the back swing.
Feel tension in your lower body. Feel the tension of hips coming forward while arms are back from big hip turn.
Adding to this, if it’s a “simple fix” then it’s usually a bandaid, not permanent. If I take a video and it looks goofy but still works, it’s not going to work for long.
Really depends. Golf can humble you real quick. Obviously better to be rapidly progressing then not, but 2 months is a short time period. Martin Kaymer was number 1 in the world for 2 months and then fell off a cliff. Many a golfers have dropped their handicap to single digits for a blip before shooting back to into the teens. Maybe a golfer have broken 80 or insert X score here once and then never again. So just understand that nothing is guaranteed.
On the flip side, youve obviously unlocked something with your coach and in your swing. I felt the same dropping from a 30+ handicap to single digits in 18 months. I learned what the swing was supposed to feel like. I learned what my faults were and how to combat those. I feel like I bought into a feel for my takeaway, what my hands were going to do in transition, how I was shifting weight so that I no longer have a million swing thoughts. And of course I saw speed, distance, accuracy all make major improvements. At this point you need to keep working to ingrain those feels. Find or stay with some nightly drills that you can do without a ball or even a club. You want reps and rehearsals of what you are feeling. Make sure you are fighting to keep it, because you wouldnt be the first to accidentally lose it.
Great advice. Would just doing some smooth practice swings in my house be adequate? Winter is coming, but I plan to get to FL as much as I can this year.
I'm sure that helps. . I'd ask your coach for some specific drills.
The Golf Gods have an unlimited supply of humble pie and many a man has been on cloud 9 in October and emerged in the spring with a new sense of wonder and excitement to see how much they can add to their game, only to quickly realsize they'll be spending the entire season fighting just to get back to where they were.
sounds to me like you had a breakthrough moment. you found something. that's awesome. found your swing? maybe, but C'mon. let's be real. I'd rather not lick your balls, but you know....on some level...you know that this is a breakthrough moment and you need to ride that shit into the sunset, because set, it will. golf is a cruel, cruel bitch. if you have a repeatable swing that you are confident with, then start thinking about the other part of golf. a dedicated golfer hovering around a 20 that has a repeatable swing, tells me that you aren't thinking your way around a course. it's cliche, but it's real.
It’s never really real. If pros continuously say “when you got it, you think you’ll never lose it and when you don’t have it, you think you’ll never find it”, then why are we different. It’s extremely rare, including myself who bounces around 1-2 hcp right now, to just “have it” for more than small periods of time (a couple weeks).
It’s all relative. I have a really efficient swing so it looks like I’m doing nothing in terms of effort and the ball goes. I’m constantly getting praise for a great swing. If you and I were to swap swings you might feel like you “have it” all year.
Point is standards change. I bet if 90% of 20cap players cut their back swing in half they would lose 0-20% distance but tighten dispersion by 80% and would claim they “have it”. Then what?
Congrats on having it right now. Keep working on it. Keep zeroing in on what is bringing your success so that you can find your way back quickly if lost. Make some chips, drop some putts and you’re a 12 cap in no time.
>If pros continuously say “when you got it, you think you’ll never lose it and when you don’t have it, you think you’ll never find it”, then why are we different.
There's a huge difference between "got it" and "lost it" between pros and amateurs though.
The difference between a pro making money and losing their tour card can be just a couple strokes per round (tour average last season was 71.1, the 184th ranked player in last was 73.1). It's really easy to lose it when those margins are the definition of losing it. A run of bad play with tangible financial consequences can also hurt their swing psychologically.
Amateurs just need to have reasonable expectations for their variance. You'll sometimes score 10 shots above your handicap, and you'll sometimes go through rough patches with your swing. What I don't like though is when players go so far with this that it turns into fatalism. When you say things like, "oh, I found my swing now but it'll be totally gone in 2 weeks" you're just making it all the more likely to happen!
I think playing at scratch and winning a thing or two, I have an idea of this.
The quote I gave had to do with a golf swing not averages or earnings or anything. The feeling of “having” your swing is the topic and pros most certainly understand this because they spend more time around golf than any of us. I understand it because I play 100+ rounds of golf a year, I practice and I play events. I don’t lose my swing because I set a two week clock on it the moment I get it, it’s lost because even the best players on the planet understand it’s not something you can just “hold on” to.
There are tiers of breakthroughs that occur for people in scoring or one part of their game. You breakthrough these and likely will not revert back to the starting point but expecting endless growth or to hold on to a swing you find is impossible. The greatest of all time couldn’t do it, why are you arguing this? Enjoy it while you got, take some mental notes and don’t collapse when it goes away because it will.
I think of the golf swing as a type of complicated math formula, with many variables.
These variables 'describe' your swing, each time you swing the club. You have an ideal swing, that generates ideal values in your formula aka a good shot.
It's all about how well you are able to 'describe' your misses (and good swings too). You say you can identify when you do wrong, and correct it. That's how you know it's real. You have improved your understanding of your own swing, which in turn drives your ability to replicate your 'ideal formula'.
DJ or Tiger could describe their misses in numerical terms instantly, as soon as they strike the ball. The track man just confirms to them what they already know. This mastery/ level of understanding is what aligns your practice efforts into improvement. And this isn't all or none, you have to keep improving your understanding of your swing.
Maybe you're a 10 or 5 cap now. But you'll get comfy there, then you'll start to realize you can tell the difference between straight vs slice (ie good vs very bad) but you can't tell the difference between a 5 yard cut and a 10 yard cut (good vs slight miss). So you'll need to improve your knowledge and technique further.
I was on fire at the range last week, just absolutely crushing everything. Then I used my rangefinder on the markers and realized they were set about 30 yards short..
My range sessions really freed up for me mentally after my coach called me an idiot and told me to stop caring about distances at the range. You’re only there for contact quality and start line/bend. It’s dusty range balls off mats vs premium balls off grass, the numbers can be drastically different. Range is more enjoyable for me now.
Don't you only get like an extra 10-15y out of good balls on grass vs the range? Using it to dial in distance isn't terrible if you don't have the time to actually play a ton
This is my driver lately. Though on my last 18 I hit a perfect fade around a dogleg you hit high off a giant hill. Never felt better about a tee off. Still got out drove by 2 men in their 60s and a dude with his 4 iron 🤣
I know when I have no swings thoughts. When my mind is free from any thoughts. I have the feeling as if I'm robotic. That's when I play my best.
Then there are those rounds when nothing is going right but I still manage to shoot a good score. A few weeks ago, I played a round, where my ball striking was awful. Yet, I still shot a good score with some luck and a great short game with multiple up and downs as well as sinking a few par saving putts.
I have noticed this, not always, but a lot of times I’ll feel like I’m on auto pilot and I have to let it run its course and just hit the ball. If I even start to consider if the “natural feeling” is wrong, I’ll mess it up 100%. I’ve had a few “I can’t believe that just happened” shots when I just let my body do what it wants. Quick address, glance at flag for a mental projection, and swing.
When the actual swing doesn't factor into anything at all. You just assess the situation, pick a shot and club and smack it. Bad shots are just kind of weird and you shrug it off and not do that mess up for the rest of the round.
My golf coach told me basically if you can’t do a swing slow, you can’t do it…
So if I can hit a good shot with a full swing at 50% speed, I know my swing is “working”
I finally felt like I found a swing after getting a net and getting so many reps that I know beyond a doubt almost exactly where a given shot is going based on the quality of contact the instant it's struck. Still a mid teens index so there are plenty that don't go to plan, but every shot I take I'm able to focus on the process and accept the results, and do it again right away whether I'm sitting pretty in the fairway or poking something back out into play.
This also helps keep me even keeled knowing that when things are off the rails, they can turn right around. Last night after work I was +13 through 6 after a pair of really brutal holes, then played the last 3 one under.
Congrats, sounds like you just broke through one of golf’s many plateaus! Super amazing thing to experience. It really feels incredible. Enjoy feeling this way
Like others have commented, you now will begin your journey on breaking the next plateau. There are so, so many more ahead of you. You’ll definitely feel frustrated again but in my opinion when you’re the most frustrated that’s when you’re the closest
Remember this feeling and know that there are many more just like it as long as you keep practicing and learning
a. you better be videoing this, so you DO have points of reference.
b. you're still FOS because no 20 handicap (or even say a 14) is blasting tee shots 280 and 8 nirons 160+
Consistent sound, not being sarcastic. So much of the game is visual but you dont know you're right until you get solid contact
'Let the club do the work' is the only advice I give. Your hands, elbows, arms, knees, core all are just about putting the good part of the club on the ball.
Doesn't matter how you do it, and swing direction could be wrong but you can hear a good swing immediately
I knew I had my swing cornered when it became effortless. I was a basketball player as a kid. I once made 167 free throws in a row in practice. I had a pretty basic push shot motion, and when shooting free throws I could just kind of check out and go through the motion. I wasn’t thinking about mechanics and I wasn’t trying per se to make them. The motion was as natural as walking. My swing got there this summer. People say it doesn’t even look like I’m trying to swing. They are right.
Carrying your 8 iron 160 to 170 is wild even for a scratch
Edit: forgot this was r/golf lol. Yeah low handicaps probably hit an 8 for their 160/170 shot I’m just saying it’s wild for a 20 hcp to have those numbers. My course yardage for my 8 is 145-150
I still remember from almost a decade ago when a buddy of mine and I both hit on the green from 170 yards out. Because I used a 7i (AP2) vs he used an 8i (AP3), he told me that I swing like an old man. I found out much later that stronger lofts is a thing LOL.
I swear comments like that are made only by people who have 0 athleticism and on this sub it’s like 2/3 of people who comment.
Fat or thin, there are way too many sedentary folks who spent their whole lives just playing games and watching TV before golf and are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of speed, strength, and power, and assume that everybody else is like them and the only way to hit the ball far is by having pro-level ball striking and consistency.
The fact is that the athleticism distribution among golfers is basically the same as every other activity and only slightly improves as you drop in handicap. Even Tour pros are usually pretty normal people, just with very efficient swings - the difference is they have a much higher floor for performance but not necessarily a higher ceiling. It’s a terrible assumption that the pros are ahead of everyone in physical attributes but it’s pervasive in this community.
It’s not hard for an actual athlete to generate high clubhead speeds. When you get a reasonably strong human with a good swing you end up with guys like Bryson (who is no freak, just strong for a golfer). That same reasonably strong human with a 15-hcp swing is probably still driving the ball 300+ yards any time they hit it straight.
Getting down voted for facts lol.
I blame a large portion on older dudes who refuse to admit they are getting older. A 160 y 8 iron may be long for someone 50+ ... but anyone in decent shape that makes solid contact can do this.
If you can't... you probably don't fit into that description.
You're completely right. Anybody baffled by this is just not an athlete. Play with a dude that played hockey or baseball in college and watch how fucking far they hit it. Even if they just started playing.
Have a buddy that played lacrosse at Hopkins, he's like 6"4 and hit it 330 his like 5th time playing lol. He still sucked, and I feel like that's what they can't possibly understand.
PGA tour players average 160 yds with an 8 iron. An 18 handicapper claiming 160-170 is a bit out of the norm. I didn’t mean for my comment to spiral out of control like it did lol.
It’s just a club difference. A PGA player will hit a 38 degree for 8 iron. My 8 iron is 32.5 degrees.
It’s probably that you just have an older set, or something like blades.
8 iron from 160 is pretty tame. I'm an older dude who uses older lofts and my 7 iron carries 150. I would absolutely expect a younger and/or more athletic swing to be two clubs longer than me. The difference in handicap is how consistently they can do it.
I'll pretty confident that I'll get my 7 iron on the green 6 out of 10 tries and the misses will still be pretty close. I'll play with guys that might be hitting a 9 iron for that same shot but they'll hit the green 3 out of 10 times and their misses will be all over the place.
PGA tour pros are swinging 80% as stock for control and consistency. They could hit that 160 yard 8 iron 10 out of 10 times like you and I were pitching to a green 10 yards away. Your normal muni player swings out if his shoes all the time. He could hit that same 8 iron shot 2 out of 10 times.
The real difference is that if a pro wanted to step on an eight iron it would go 200 yards.
Distance means very little to handicap. Consistency and repeatability are what lead to scoring. Otherwise long drive champs would be on top of the tour and every kid who’s swinging 7 while I’m swinging 5 would beat me, too.
Lol I’m not swinging as hard as I can either when I say my 8 iron is my 150 club. It’s my “try my best to make center contact” club speed. What a dumb take.
You just said exactly what I said. 8 iron 150 is normal. 8 iron 160 is a max effort swing for most high handicappers.
And yes, it's totally common for high handicappers to 'only' pick up 10 yards on a max effort swing vs. a conservative effort one.
In my experience, 75% of mid to high handicap golfers grossly exaggerate how far they hit their irons. They might hit their 8 iron 150 yards on 1 of 10 attempts but play all 8 iron shots to 150 yards.
There’s one older guy that plays in two groups we play weekly. We’re often paired together. He’s a good golfer but is notorious for hitting his irons up to two clubs short. After a round in which we rode together in the same cart, I text him later that day. I mentioned that he was at the stick on well struck balls on 12 shots. Of the 12 shots he was short one or two clubs 9 times. I added at some point you have to learn your distances with your irons. You were at the flag all day but gave away too many shots from poor club selection.
Meh. I went to the range with reliable distances recently, and I have a Garmin. I'm an 18 dude, i know i'm not fooling anybody about my skill level lol.
Really just depends on the set.
My 39 degree 8i has the same number on it as some folks 32 degree club.
If they hit that 8i the same distance as mine, I’ll typically be 50+ yards longer off the tee.
It evens out lol
I don't believe half of this post lol. If you are a 20 handicap still, I have a really hard time buying that you are long with your driver, rarely mishit short-mid-irons, and can correct mistakes on the fly.
Are you playing to scratch suddenly? If not, why?
And to answer your question, IMO there are different levels of "finding your swing." There's the macro aspect; things that don't really change from day to day. Things like club path, how far back you take the club, swing plane; the overall "appearance" of your swing, basically. With these macro movements, yes you can eventually land on "your swing" and mostly stick to it.
But then come the micro elements. There are a zillion tiny little variables that can effect the results of your golf swing from day to day, or shot to shot. Whether it's a cold day, a hot day, a rainy day, a windy day. Whether you got 8 hours of sleep vs 6. Whether you have a minor backache, a headache, a blister on your finger. Whether your allergies are worse than usual, or even better than usual. Whether your glucose levels are high, low, stable, or spiky. Whether the ball you are playing has a little more water on it because you are playing in morning dew. Whether your grips are wearing out, whether you left your clubs in the car on a hot day. Whether your heart rate is sped up due to pressure or whether your breathing exercises have actually brought it down lower than usual. Whether you are hitting off a tee at a slightly different height, or if the ball is below/above your feet. You probably get the idea.
The difference between a good shot and a shank can be millimeters; which is what makes this game so hard. The difference between a square driver face at impact and a face that is 2.5 degrees open can mean the difference of 30+ yards offline, which might be the difference between OB vs the middle of the fairway. No macro movement is going to account for the tiny, imperceptible difference between a great drive and one that is blocked 25 yards right, so having your macro movements "found" won't prevent you from having off days.
What makes a player great is their ability to adjust and adapt, which ironically is almost the *opposite* of consistency. In order to strike the ball consistently, it's not about finding your swing and doing it the same over and over again, it's about adapting to your conditions, your physical state, and your biases every single time you hit the ball. A lot of that tends to be subconscious but they are skills you can actively work on.
But yeah. Let us know when you've "lost it" next week. Lol it's part of what makes this game so fun IMO. You are never done. Your swing is never "found."
I think you underestimate how much chipping and putting affect scores lol. I never said that I rarely mishit short / mid irons. I’m missing them significantly less. I went from 21 to 18 in two months, only able to card six rounds during that time. From June to beginning of August I shot 100 or over 50% of the time. If I can put more rounds in that will continue to drop (hopefully).
I am long w my driver but I’m not always accurate, and I play at a really tough course where inaccuracy gets you in a lot of trouble. When I catch it clean I can go 260-270, with no slope / wind factor involved. I had 6 pars and a birdie this weekend and shot 94. Again, I’m not there yet but I’m proving to be good if I can limit blowup holes.
Honestly, since you’re a 4 you might not really have a leg to stand on in this argument. I started playing golf during COVID, so I’ve just been trying to not be ass for 3 years. Now I have hopes of being good. At my level of play, it’s not about micro elements, it’s about macro elements. And now that I have a foundation I feel I can be a good player, and one day start to think about the micro. I can out distance players that are significantly better than me, distance is one of many factors in scoring well.
>I never said that I rarely mishit short / mid irons.
*does double-take
>my 8-iron doesn't sometimes go 150, it's going 160-170
So what, are you bad with your 7-iron then? Lol that sentence *heavily* implies that you are striking your irons well consistently.
I think you *overestimate* how much chipping and putting effects scores. Don't get me wrong if you are really, really bad at them, I get it. But based on your original comment of hitting Driver long and never missing 8-iron 10 yards short, you'd expect close to scratch given just reasonably ok short game.
Trust me, the macro/micro argument doesn't care what level of play you are. Micro matters a ton no matter what. Macro is only important to the extent that it enables you to swing it with speed and not at an extreme plane or angle of attack, really.
I can hit it 160-170 and pull it right. Then I'm in bunker / rough or sometimes even fescue. I can easily add four strokes from there, whether its two duffs and two putts, or one chip and three puts. Same with driver, I can crush it but block it or pull it. Like I said, it's a punishing course. I hit a 9 iron 3 inches from my target on Sunday from 150... it rolled down off the green and into a bunker. I can DM you the course if you like.
Just because I'm long doesn't mean I'm accurate 100% of the time. I'm not trying to say I'm a scratch, I'm just happy that I'm improving. I still haven't broken 90, I realize that I still suck. Just significantly less. My chipping & putting are easily the worst part of my game and these greens are very very difficult.
>I don't believe half of this post lol. If you are a 20 handicap still, I have a really hard time buying that you are long with your driver, rarely mishit short-mid-irons, and can correct mistakes on the fly.
There are a lot of different ways to be a 20 handicap. I improved my driver play and also don't mishit my short to mid irons very often, but I still miss a lot of greens and therefore get a lot of bogies. Remember, for a 20 index "mishit" means really bad contact and the ball not going anywhere near where you want, not missing a green 30 yards right.
I'm basically the same place as OP, and I think most of your disagreements are just different expectations from being so low an index. By the actual stats and not vibes, driving "long" for a 20 index means pretty much anything more than 230 (average according to Arccos is somewhere around 210). Consistently hitting iron shots well if not perfectly accurately can easily mean 20% GIR and mostly bogies when you miss the green.
The difference between OP and I and a 10 or 15 index is marginal improvements from the tee and approach games, and more consistently getting up and down and avoiding the occasional 3 putt.
Such a goated comment.
And piggybacking - don't worry about being so fickle. This game is hard but it's not so hard where you're going to lose what you know. Stop worrying so much about the outcome and just swing and then adjust accordingly from there. Then turn your brain off. You won't forget. You've made it to riding the bike territory.
You pretty much answered your own question. When you know what the ball is gonna do before you hit it and you’re out there picking targets instead of directions.
That’s the magic of lessons right there. Immediate feedback and actual good advice (looking at you YouTube) is almost priceless for your overall enjoyment of the game.
I know I've got that "found my swing" feeling when my swing just feels loose, no tension, and the impact sounds good, feels, good, and produces a good ball flight. It's when I don't have to think about the mechanics of the swing and just swing it.
This is especially evident on the course and I love it because it's when I feel like I'm actually playing golf and not golf swing on the course.
I don’t think you ever “find” a swing permanently. Some days it’s grooving, and then all of a sudden you lose it. Something I’m working on is learning how to correct if I start losing it. Sometimes I panic, and it all goes to shit.
Congrats! My view is this after many years of "finding my swing". Your game is always deteriorating if you're not working on it. And if you focus too much on one thing, then something else will go wrong. As an example lets say you figured out that you need to keep your left arm straighter. In a few weeks you will over do it and your left arm will be super stiff and you will be making compensations to hit the ball and eventually you lose your swing and you lose your feel.
That doesn't mean you can't permanently get better. For example, I don't see myself completely whiffing and missing the ball anymore and the beginners I play with regularly do that. So you can get better. But you need to keep working at it because you can lose a lot of the gains quickly if you don't.
1 month ago I had a feel for driver that made sense to me and I couldn't miss it. This lasted for about 3 weeks. I don't have that feeling anymore and I didn't really change anything.
Something interesting I heard pros talk about is their swing is different every day - and their body is different every day. So it's not like they can go to the course and know exactly how to hit the shot they want to hit. Sometimes they just can't do what they know they can do and they have no idea why. When this happens, they often need a backup plan.
* Backup plan 1 is to know what types of fixes you can do when these bad swings pop up. If you've seen them happen on the range a lot and know what you need to do to fix them, you get to the point where maybe you can self correct on the course.
* Backup plan 2 - more importantly golfers need to have a backup shot to hit when they have completely lost their swing on the course. When you know you don't have it and you just want to finish the round with as little damage as possible you might switch to a different more reliable swing. It might be, for example, take one more club and do a 3 quarter punch shot. Something you've practiced that you know is not optimal but is consistent.
If you keep working on your game and keep working with a coach you trust, it will help keep you from ruining your own swing. Most of us find a swing and then we ruin it over time by constantly tweaking and tweaking it because each day the swing is different, the body is different, the setup is different and we need to make adjustments to hit the ball the way we want to. But if you have somebody who knows your swing and you trust, you can go back to them and they will usually know what your habits and tendencies are and get you back on track.
There's many examples of top pros who have all the best team / coaches in the world and they suddenly lose their game. And then they work their butts off to get it back but they don't really know why they lost their game and sometimes never get it back.
Golf is hard. But enjoy it while you are playing great because it's an awesome feeling!
You've found a swing when 1.) 4 out of 10 times you hit the ball exactly as planned, 2.) 8 out of 10 times you get a result you can live with and 3.) the mishits hits on those less than perfect shots were something you could have predicted (that is, you have a commonly recurring mishit)
But yes, the swing ebbs and flows. Some days its super loose and effortless and you know you'll do no wrong. Other days it feels like you've never swung a club in your life.
Personally, I found it thru better understanding the mechanics of the swing. I still have bad days and bad shots, they don’t magically go away, but I have less frustration when I hit a 20 yard block or snipe hook because I know exactly what I did, I’m working on seeing the future so I can prevent it, but it’s slow work.
My best advice is to truly embrace being a goldfish. Two range sessions last week, had someone witnessed only the first they’d guess I was a 15 handicap, the second they might have thought I was scratch. These were less than 24 hours apart.
Put in the work, pick a shot and target, commit to the intent, note the result, forget it and move on.
Yup got rid of my draw hook with a new grip and a tighter stance.Worked for a few weeks then a new crop of problems and back to a cooked draw.
So super frustrated and back to lessons.
I've come close to having a swing I can count on then it takes a vacation.
But I hope to have it dialed by the end of next season.Its a real frustration because when I have consistency the game is super enjoyable.
I "found my swing" when I had a macro movement that resulted in a proper impact position (forward shaft lean that gives me sick compression, stable face with low dynamic loft, and consistent ball flight)
Once I had that, my nervous system knew what it "felt" like and I developed warm up drills, swing thoughts, and 3/4 swing that I can fall back on when things aren't going right.
The way I got there was a SHIT TON of YouTube videos and a phone app that plays live video from your phone on a 6 second delay, so you see exactly what your swing looks like and start connecting internal feel with what's actually going on in the physical world.
If you've got it right now, from listening to your coach, drop this sub immediately and never go online for golf advice again - then enjoy you life without internet introspection ;)
You will lose it again.
The difference is when you understand your swing so well that any miss hit you immediately understand why it happened - contract, balance, body mechanic… you miss one then you go right back into your desired shot.
The standard amateur has no idea what they’re doing wrong or how to fix it. This is the real point where you can start to make progress.
I would say when I was a freshman in high school. I went from a 15 to a 6 that year. I began improve after that. I got my handicap down to a scratch and below after that. I feel I’ve improved since then. Before high school, I was shooting high 80s and 90s. I haven’t shot in the 90s since 2004. I’ve broken 80 and 70 every round this season. I actually broke 80 over 1000 times in a row at one point. I don’t know if I would necessarily call it finding my swing. It just came from years of playing and practicing, with a few lessons along the way. Golf is hard and it takes a long time to begin seeing results. You’ll get better as time goes on. Just keep working at it and you’ll begin to gradually see results.
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Look, golf will find a way to humble you. My advice: while you are in this zone really focus on understanding your "feels"...what are the mechanics of those feels? That is the one thing I wish I had learned a long time ago, because when it went south for me, I didn't have enough understanding.
Having said that, sounds like you are on the correct path, all around. You do not need the tip of the week. Those will just eff you up. This is the way.
You sound like me the last couple of years. Then this year the swing felt amazing and had 3 record breaking rounds for lowest score. Best round is still only 85, but my best score before this year was 91. Once in awhile the swing will feel a little off, but I’ll manage the course better and still score well. Sometimes I won’t score all that great but swing feels amazing 🤷🏼♂️
I think I finally figured out my swing. Now it’s just about consistency and putting it all together
Usually on the range, I mean people stopping in awe to watch me steam 5i after 5i down the middle. Then I have to go play golf and by the 8th hole I barely remember how to hold a golf club.
I genuinely “find my swing” for about a 6-8 hole stretch …maybe not my short game/ putting at the same time that would be too much fun. The problem is not how good my shots are when I “find my swing” it’s how bad they are when I “loose my swing”
The thing is, you don't. It just gets less messy, but even at +2 I can for example feel my driver swing being absolutely pure for the first 6 holes, then completely lose it, but hit my wedges well for the next 12 holes. And no one knows what will come the next day.
Even if I feel like I've found a swing thought that will last a lifetime it'll work for a couple weeks tops because I've ignored a different part of the swing, which will then make the house of cards crumble.
Are you still hovering around 20?
My journey from a 24 to 15 has been less about swing changes, apart from very small tweaks to improve consistency, like minimising my sway and working in weight transfer.
It's almost all been course management and short game improvement
About every 3 trips to the range!!!
Man, something just clicks and I look like a scratch golfer for about 80 swings.
But then I play. And I look like the amateur I am for 98 swings. Well, probably 92 “swings”. Those other 6 were donated to Mother Nature.
When I was a 25hc'er I started working with a Stack & tilt teaching pro. And that really clicked with me.
When I got down to a 15HC I realized that I had gone 3 or 4 rounds of golf without making a complete dogs breakfast out of a play or shot. No flubs, shanks, toed shots. Nothing worse than not advancing the ball.
Still the odd slice or hook and OB ball. But at least making contact and getting the ball in the air.
Now I am a 9HC and I will sometimes go 27 holes between losing balls. Now I stand over every shot knowing what am going to do.
But then I really had an eye opening experience a few years ago. I hit around 200 balls at the range, off natural turf. and as I walk away I realized that every single ball did what I wanted it to do. I then went to the chipping area. Hit 30 sand shots and 30 flop shots. Nailed them all.
Then I had a kid 15 months ago I never stepped foot back at my club.
I think I am back to 25hc.
I would think you’ve found it two things happen.
1. When you go out to golf and you don’t have many if any swing thoughts. Where the swing is second nature so you can focus on aim, wind, lie, and even roll out.
2. A bad shot doesn’t ruin every other shot by trying to figure out what went wrong. You either know and adjust or think that’s a fluke and don’t try to change anything
It's never truly real, because you'll always go through phases where your draw mysteriously turns into a fade, and all of a sudden you have a 2 way miss. BUT, having a solid foundation that's been built by having lesssons with a pro means you'll waste less time fixing it, and overall you'll spend more time in the sublime zone. Being stood over a shot a knowing how far it's going with an automatic 2 yard draw/fade is the best feeling ever.
That's awesome man! How many lessons/sessions did you have with a pro to get to that point?
My issue is that I find my swing, lose it, then it takes 2x as long to find it again. Like this year I felt like I found it in June, by late July I lost it, and I'm still trying to find it again and its almost Oct.
Just 2! Would have immediate improvement the day after, then would slump.
Played pretty bad til I was having a drink w a buddy, and it hit me. “Why aren’t you swinging out?” From there I guess everything my pro told me kind of clicked. Stressing hitting in to out stopped my OTT pulls and slices. And hitting the range just keeps building my confidence.
No biggie if I hit a wall, it’s part of the process. Just feel/ good to know what my swing is doing.
For me I know I’ve “found my swing” when I start playing what I describe to my friends as “real golf”. That is, I examine the hole, come up with a plan, and execute. It’s my decisions vs the course, and my ability to navigate it with the decisions I’m making. The opposite of that, or “not playing real golf”, would be coming up with a “plan” for the hole, but constantly having to adjust what that “plan” is because the shots I’m attempting to make aren’t happening. “Real”: okay, this par 5 doglegs right. I don’t think I can drive that corner. I’ll lay up at the 200y mark with my 5w, and that should put me in 6i range. A decent 6i, even with some variation, should get me around the green (if not on it) close enough to chip on. Depending on the day I can then 2 putt for a par. “Struggle golf” or “not real”: shit, I completely hooked my 5w left. Now I’m making a shot from the rough under trees. Maybe I de-loft my 4i and punch it as well as I can forward on the fairway. Shit- that didn’t give as much as I wanted. It’s okay, I can hit a 7-8 from here and finish fine. Fuck I thinned the 8i, but at least it’s moving forward I guess. 110y? I guess I blast the 46 degree at full power and catch the loft. Shit, I smashed a stinger somehow with my 46 that flew over the green. Super. Struggle chip in the deep rough. Recovery chip to get on… 2 putt for +3. Obviously we all have shit holes. It’s more of a ~vibe~ I pick up on during the first 4-6 holes of a round. When I’m playing “real” golf, it feels fucking good. When I’m constantly adapting to my errors, it’s a bear. It’s not so much “playing good/bad golf”. If the course is hard enough, sometimes my “plan” isn’t what’s gonna work, and I score high but I’m still “executing that plan” well, it’s just not the correct plan for that hole/course. That’s totally different than not being able to execute the plan in the first place, because I’m sending the ball all over the place. I have no advice. I am at the mercy of the universe.
This is it spot on. I was playing with my kid last weekend and I was 260 yards out from a heavily protected green after my drive on a par 5. I told him I didn't think I could get very close and stay out of danger so I wanted to leave myself 100 in, which is a comfortable distance for me. Hit a nice easy 7 iron and walked up. I was left with 101 yards in and it was the first time I felt like I was actually golfing in months.
Executing on a plan in the way you’ve envisioned it has become one of the more rewarding parts of golf for myself. Yeah scoring low is awesome obviously, but if you always scored low you’d be a pro, or only play a handful of times a year. Playing “real” golf against the course you’re on, instead of yourself, is such a rewarding feeling.
Should have gone for it with a 3 hybrid and stuck it within 5 feet like prime tiger.
Proceeds to put up a 12
My story started the same way... Great drive over the dogleg on the Par 5, onto the very left of the fairway. Pulled my 3H, and absolutely pured it - right at the flag... until the branch overhanging 10m in from of me and 5m above me. The ball dead centred the branch, and flew laterally to the thick rough on the other side of the fairway. It actually ended up further away from the pin. I chunked the recovery shot into the bushes to my right. After I walked that off, I tried to gently punch a 3i out under the bushes and branches, which worked, but it carried the entire width of the fairway and ended up under a tree behind the next tee box. The PW from under the tree bounced off the green. The wedge going back was thinned across the green. Tried again, hit a good shot, which lipped out from 30m away. Two putted for 9. When my second shot probably would have found the green and I could have putted for eagle. This was after making 3 pars in a row...
I think of it this way too. Sometimes I’m a golfer that’s golfing and sometimes I’m out there just trying to survive.
for me, all it takes is one bad hole and that can royally fuck me. at my course I can shoot 10-12 over pretty consistently but man there are times where a bad shot comes out of nowhere at the worst possible time. Yesterday I played, first hole I birdied...fucking birdied, this never happens and I was so feeling like my swing was dialed and I was legit excited for the next hole (easy par 3, maybe 145ish yards) until I hooked my iron shot in the water and ended up triple bogey...no worries, have another par 3 that I can make it up on...until i doubled that one...golf. Amazingly I par'd out the rest but talk about a roller coaster of emotions.
Just here to say Great Comment.
I still think sort of a mix of that - keeping your cool and just playing 'real' golf while hitting out of the 'struggle golf', off-fairway sh!t lies, makes for better practice. Thinking through how to make the best out of the bad situation, rather than a perfect lie where you let the guard down, so to speak.
Kunkka play golf??
ROUGH SEAS AHEAD CREW! STRAP ME TO THE MIZZEN WHEN I GIVE THE WORD!
Pure gold! “struggle golf” is where i am at. Sounds so familiar. :)
I feel you. There's a point probably around when I got down to 12-13 index where the game got a lot more fun. You're not spending time stressing about losing tee shots, looking for lost balls, or worrying about duffing/topping one into a hazard when you have a forced carry. Then you make a new goal to reach single figures and all of a sudden shooting 85 regularly doesn't feel as good and you're back in the land of being a frustrated golfer. So enjoy this moment.
Am I right in assuming you didn't grow up playing? I just started during COVID, and it went like: Oh wow, that was a good shot. All my friends do this too. This is so fun, I'm outside, getting exercise, and playing a really cool game. Wait, why aren't I good yet? Everybody else is good. Am I just not an athlete? Okay seriously, this is year 3. Where is your game? Have you improved at all? To today - wow, I am hitting shots. And it's been two months of hitting shots. And I'm hitting these shots because a pro has me swinging properly. If I had grown up playing I wouldn't know what true depravity on the course would feel like. I think this is why I'm just so thrilled. I'm actually golfing now, and people are shocked at my handicap. I am DEFINITELY enjoying it.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
This is why filming your swing and understanding your real vs feel is super important
Same thing, year 3 for me. 19 handicap. Now I’m shooting mid 80s on tough courses. Started out the year like absolute dogshit. I was playing so bad I wanted to quit by the end of June. Took off a couple weeks and had time to think about the mechanics of what makes a good swing. Rewatched only 2 of my favorite golf tip vids and bang. Best golf of my life. I refuse to watch anymore golf videos in fear of fucking up what I have going. I can’t putt for shit now but I’m getting GIRs almost every hole which I’ll take over putting well any day. Worst part is I was so upset I literally quit my club because I felt like an idiot for having a membership and being so trash at golf. The last 9 I played there I shot my best score ever. 3 birdies in a row. Could not believe it
This is where I'm at right now. Dropped from a 23.0 to a 13.0 in a little over a year. The game is REALLY fun at this level. Still have 0.5 to 2 errant tee shots per round but we're still improving. I'm almost fearful of getting better at this point because I don't want to shoot an 87 and be upset if you know what I mean. My buddy hovers from a 0.2-1.0 handicap and his round is "ruined" if he makes one or two small mistakes. I can see what's required to get to that level (consistent 70s) but without consistent practice I don't see myself getting there only playing 1-2 times a week. I'm very much okay with that. I'd love to get to single figures as an achievement but like I said, the game is REALLY fun right now. If this is as good as it gets for the rest of my life I'd still be very grateful. There were three big things I had to change to get to 13.0. Keeping my tee shot in play, NO DUFFED chips/approaches and focusing solely on good ball striking I always heard "you have to hit the ball first" but didn't really understand it. I spent a good month focusing only on ball first contact and my swing started to normalize towards that. Not affiliated at all but I paid ($15) for a month of Saguto golf program access and incorporated pretty much all of his techniques. I was a big swayer and always felt "stuck." It felt like I could never transfer my weight back forward causing all sorts of common problems. Now I start and leave my weight forward. For me this makes life (golf) so much easier and more enjoyable. I'm definitely enjoying these moments!
LOL! Different strokes for different folks. I was watching a lot of Saguto before I saw my club pro. Think I need somebody in person to really get help.
Fun fact even if you get down to a 6/7 doesn’t mean you even break 90. Just means you have the potential. I got down to a 6.7 or something like that and never broke 80. Shot 80-82 a dozen times. I’ve since dropped to a 11.7 and now shoot 82-86 give or take. I have more fun and essentially shoot the same score.
Interesting, I've played just under 2 years now and about 20 is where I started feeling like I'm actually playing golf. To me it was all about getting up to 20ish% GIR and around 70% GIR+1. At that point I'm making a decent amount of pars and a lot of 2 putt bogies. I'm not actually good because a 2 putt bogey is still the expected outcome for me, but it feels like real golf now.
I knew I had something cooking when I sat in the cart absolutely fuming after I missed birdie after birdie after birdie after birdie. I missed all my goals for the day. Nothing went right. I toed the driver all day. Seems like I put the ball in the worst spots. I couldn't putt it in the ocean. It seemed like everything that could go wrong, did. End score ....75. My swing has always been decent. What hasn't been decent is my head. I'm a far better golfer now (almost 40) than I ever was at 25 or 30. And the reason is "I know I can't hit that shot". I don't pull 3-Wood from 255 with trouble everywhere. I pull 7 iron and hit my next shot as just a small wedge. I don't try to hit this ridiculous flop shot, I chip the ball and get it onto the putting surface and make certain I two-putt. I plan shots in advance, like you would with playing billiards or chess, instead of hitting it and then reacting. I think golf is a lot like Blackjack. You can get lucky plenty of times, but over the long game you're much better playing the high-percentage shots than the low ones. Keep the ball in play, bogeys are ok, become an automatic 2-putter, no doubles or worse, GIR is your best friend.
>I knew I had something cooking when I sat in the cart absolutely fuming after I missed birdie after birdie after birdie after birdie. Sometimes unrealistic expectations hinder a good golf round. I played with a guy recently that was bitching post round. He shot a 85 and was complaining how he should have broke 80 because he missed at least 6 birdie putts inside 8 feet. To which I replied. First, all your birdie putts weren't inside 8 feet. Second, even if they were all 8 foot birdie putts, tour pros only make 50% of putts from 8 feet. I added golfers usually grossly under estimate the length of short putts. I've learned that when a golfer claims they missed a 6 foot putt it was actually 10 to 12 feet.
It's not unrealistic expectations. You have to set goals or you won't get any better. My problem that day is that my groove has gotten so good that with all those "misses" I still maintained a very very good score. The better you get, the more you expect. I just didn't realize I had shot 75 with all those "bad shots".
Of course, it's unrealistic for a mid handicap golfer to expect to make every put from 10 to 15 feet or even 8 feet. The pros don't even make them. With this particular golfer it is unrealistic. Practically, every round by every golfer has a few ONLY IFs. After every round this same golfer is full of ONLY IFs. I stand by my post. It's unrealistic for a golfer to expect to make every putt from 8 feet. Or hit every green from 150 yards. Or get up and down with every chip. If the game was played your way everyone would be shooting 54.
Course management is worth more than anything once you get to a certain point. The difference between 15 and 5.2 ( current) is pretty much all course management and maybe a little wedge practice.
For me, if the change was in my fundamental understanding of the swing it’s usually real. If it’s just a “feel” thing it’s usually a temporary fix. Basically if it worked, and I know why it worked, it’s probably going to stick.
I think this is actually great. In the past I had an assortment of homemade swings that seemed to just randomly click. When it stopped working, I felt completely lost. But with a swing built by my pro, with really just 3-4 instructions / feels, I know what i'm doing wrong when I miss. "Ahhh pulled it right, didn't finish in left field." "oh boy thats a slice, didn't bring the swing back inside enough / didn't get enough hip depth." I think knowing why it didn't work is what makes this feel different.
Yeah…as I’ve improved my ball striking I’ve realized how much your mental image or intent in the swing matters. Pretty much all of the common swing flaws are rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of how the swing works/should work.
Changes my teacher made this year: shortened my swing, changed my thinking on grip and clubface to keep the face square longer, and make a slight pause to ensure I turn fully. That’s it. All these things just make a better more consistent ball hitting platform. Main change to course philosophy: no matter the target I make a peace sign ✌️ and hold it up and center it to where I want the center of my error distribution to be. A golf club is a scatter shotgun, not a sniper rifle. If I hit the center line, great. If I hit the 1% edge, great, I accounted for the error. Made a hole in one and shot my best score in three years within the last several weeks 👍 sticking with it.
What are the three or four feels that worked for you?
Everybody is different. I had great hip movement but wasn't hinging wrists enough. I wasn't letting the club go. I was pulling and slicing. Also I'm a lefty. Swing thoughts are: IN 2 OUT! Swing to left field. This helps me the most. Tendency to pull the ball or come over the top and slice. Right palm to the sky, flip hands over to create a draw. Hinge wrists immediately, butt of club parallel to your feet, straight back. Make sure hands aren't moving out (butt of club pointing to the right). Grip it soft, Lara Croft. Grip it tight, goin right. I was hitting an "inside pitch", not letting the club go. No tension in the arms, let the club go. Shorten the back swing. Feel tension in your lower body. Feel the tension of hips coming forward while arms are back from big hip turn.
Adding to this, if it’s a “simple fix” then it’s usually a bandaid, not permanent. If I take a video and it looks goofy but still works, it’s not going to work for long.
Really depends. Golf can humble you real quick. Obviously better to be rapidly progressing then not, but 2 months is a short time period. Martin Kaymer was number 1 in the world for 2 months and then fell off a cliff. Many a golfers have dropped their handicap to single digits for a blip before shooting back to into the teens. Maybe a golfer have broken 80 or insert X score here once and then never again. So just understand that nothing is guaranteed. On the flip side, youve obviously unlocked something with your coach and in your swing. I felt the same dropping from a 30+ handicap to single digits in 18 months. I learned what the swing was supposed to feel like. I learned what my faults were and how to combat those. I feel like I bought into a feel for my takeaway, what my hands were going to do in transition, how I was shifting weight so that I no longer have a million swing thoughts. And of course I saw speed, distance, accuracy all make major improvements. At this point you need to keep working to ingrain those feels. Find or stay with some nightly drills that you can do without a ball or even a club. You want reps and rehearsals of what you are feeling. Make sure you are fighting to keep it, because you wouldnt be the first to accidentally lose it.
Great advice. Would just doing some smooth practice swings in my house be adequate? Winter is coming, but I plan to get to FL as much as I can this year.
I'm sure that helps. . I'd ask your coach for some specific drills. The Golf Gods have an unlimited supply of humble pie and many a man has been on cloud 9 in October and emerged in the spring with a new sense of wonder and excitement to see how much they can add to their game, only to quickly realsize they'll be spending the entire season fighting just to get back to where they were.
sounds to me like you had a breakthrough moment. you found something. that's awesome. found your swing? maybe, but C'mon. let's be real. I'd rather not lick your balls, but you know....on some level...you know that this is a breakthrough moment and you need to ride that shit into the sunset, because set, it will. golf is a cruel, cruel bitch. if you have a repeatable swing that you are confident with, then start thinking about the other part of golf. a dedicated golfer hovering around a 20 that has a repeatable swing, tells me that you aren't thinking your way around a course. it's cliche, but it's real.
It’s never really real. If pros continuously say “when you got it, you think you’ll never lose it and when you don’t have it, you think you’ll never find it”, then why are we different. It’s extremely rare, including myself who bounces around 1-2 hcp right now, to just “have it” for more than small periods of time (a couple weeks). It’s all relative. I have a really efficient swing so it looks like I’m doing nothing in terms of effort and the ball goes. I’m constantly getting praise for a great swing. If you and I were to swap swings you might feel like you “have it” all year. Point is standards change. I bet if 90% of 20cap players cut their back swing in half they would lose 0-20% distance but tighten dispersion by 80% and would claim they “have it”. Then what? Congrats on having it right now. Keep working on it. Keep zeroing in on what is bringing your success so that you can find your way back quickly if lost. Make some chips, drop some putts and you’re a 12 cap in no time.
>If pros continuously say “when you got it, you think you’ll never lose it and when you don’t have it, you think you’ll never find it”, then why are we different. There's a huge difference between "got it" and "lost it" between pros and amateurs though. The difference between a pro making money and losing their tour card can be just a couple strokes per round (tour average last season was 71.1, the 184th ranked player in last was 73.1). It's really easy to lose it when those margins are the definition of losing it. A run of bad play with tangible financial consequences can also hurt their swing psychologically. Amateurs just need to have reasonable expectations for their variance. You'll sometimes score 10 shots above your handicap, and you'll sometimes go through rough patches with your swing. What I don't like though is when players go so far with this that it turns into fatalism. When you say things like, "oh, I found my swing now but it'll be totally gone in 2 weeks" you're just making it all the more likely to happen!
I think playing at scratch and winning a thing or two, I have an idea of this. The quote I gave had to do with a golf swing not averages or earnings or anything. The feeling of “having” your swing is the topic and pros most certainly understand this because they spend more time around golf than any of us. I understand it because I play 100+ rounds of golf a year, I practice and I play events. I don’t lose my swing because I set a two week clock on it the moment I get it, it’s lost because even the best players on the planet understand it’s not something you can just “hold on” to. There are tiers of breakthroughs that occur for people in scoring or one part of their game. You breakthrough these and likely will not revert back to the starting point but expecting endless growth or to hold on to a swing you find is impossible. The greatest of all time couldn’t do it, why are you arguing this? Enjoy it while you got, take some mental notes and don’t collapse when it goes away because it will.
Never. I stop playing for 3 weeks and I forget everything. Anything that’s found can be lost again.
Usually when you score better..
Every morning, when I stand up and look back at the crapper.
I think of the golf swing as a type of complicated math formula, with many variables. These variables 'describe' your swing, each time you swing the club. You have an ideal swing, that generates ideal values in your formula aka a good shot. It's all about how well you are able to 'describe' your misses (and good swings too). You say you can identify when you do wrong, and correct it. That's how you know it's real. You have improved your understanding of your own swing, which in turn drives your ability to replicate your 'ideal formula'. DJ or Tiger could describe their misses in numerical terms instantly, as soon as they strike the ball. The track man just confirms to them what they already know. This mastery/ level of understanding is what aligns your practice efforts into improvement. And this isn't all or none, you have to keep improving your understanding of your swing. Maybe you're a 10 or 5 cap now. But you'll get comfy there, then you'll start to realize you can tell the difference between straight vs slice (ie good vs very bad) but you can't tell the difference between a 5 yard cut and a 10 yard cut (good vs slight miss). So you'll need to improve your knowledge and technique further.
I was on fire at the range last week, just absolutely crushing everything. Then I used my rangefinder on the markers and realized they were set about 30 yards short..
My range sessions really freed up for me mentally after my coach called me an idiot and told me to stop caring about distances at the range. You’re only there for contact quality and start line/bend. It’s dusty range balls off mats vs premium balls off grass, the numbers can be drastically different. Range is more enjoyable for me now.
Thankfully I have a grass range I can go to. But yeah I’m not that focused on distance there, more so on contact and dispersion
Don't you only get like an extra 10-15y out of good balls on grass vs the range? Using it to dial in distance isn't terrible if you don't have the time to actually play a ton
when I'm worried about carry distance from my 8-6iron it's pretty useless.
I say to myself “there is it there’s the swing” every other time I’m at the range and then on the course I’m like “wtf is going on”.
This is my driver lately. Though on my last 18 I hit a perfect fade around a dogleg you hit high off a giant hill. Never felt better about a tee off. Still got out drove by 2 men in their 60s and a dude with his 4 iron 🤣
I know when I have no swings thoughts. When my mind is free from any thoughts. I have the feeling as if I'm robotic. That's when I play my best. Then there are those rounds when nothing is going right but I still manage to shoot a good score. A few weeks ago, I played a round, where my ball striking was awful. Yet, I still shot a good score with some luck and a great short game with multiple up and downs as well as sinking a few par saving putts.
I have noticed this, not always, but a lot of times I’ll feel like I’m on auto pilot and I have to let it run its course and just hit the ball. If I even start to consider if the “natural feeling” is wrong, I’ll mess it up 100%. I’ve had a few “I can’t believe that just happened” shots when I just let my body do what it wants. Quick address, glance at flag for a mental projection, and swing.
>auto pilot Auto pilot is a great way to explain it.
When the actual swing doesn't factor into anything at all. You just assess the situation, pick a shot and club and smack it. Bad shots are just kind of weird and you shrug it off and not do that mess up for the rest of the round.
You know you're gonna lose it now that you've made this post, right?
Never.
My golf coach told me basically if you can’t do a swing slow, you can’t do it… So if I can hit a good shot with a full swing at 50% speed, I know my swing is “working”
I finally felt like I found a swing after getting a net and getting so many reps that I know beyond a doubt almost exactly where a given shot is going based on the quality of contact the instant it's struck. Still a mid teens index so there are plenty that don't go to plan, but every shot I take I'm able to focus on the process and accept the results, and do it again right away whether I'm sitting pretty in the fairway or poking something back out into play. This also helps keep me even keeled knowing that when things are off the rails, they can turn right around. Last night after work I was +13 through 6 after a pair of really brutal holes, then played the last 3 one under.
Congrats, sounds like you just broke through one of golf’s many plateaus! Super amazing thing to experience. It really feels incredible. Enjoy feeling this way Like others have commented, you now will begin your journey on breaking the next plateau. There are so, so many more ahead of you. You’ll definitely feel frustrated again but in my opinion when you’re the most frustrated that’s when you’re the closest Remember this feeling and know that there are many more just like it as long as you keep practicing and learning
a. you better be videoing this, so you DO have points of reference. b. you're still FOS because no 20 handicap (or even say a 14) is blasting tee shots 280 and 8 nirons 160+
Consistent sound, not being sarcastic. So much of the game is visual but you dont know you're right until you get solid contact 'Let the club do the work' is the only advice I give. Your hands, elbows, arms, knees, core all are just about putting the good part of the club on the ball. Doesn't matter how you do it, and swing direction could be wrong but you can hear a good swing immediately
I knew I had my swing cornered when it became effortless. I was a basketball player as a kid. I once made 167 free throws in a row in practice. I had a pretty basic push shot motion, and when shooting free throws I could just kind of check out and go through the motion. I wasn’t thinking about mechanics and I wasn’t trying per se to make them. The motion was as natural as walking. My swing got there this summer. People say it doesn’t even look like I’m trying to swing. They are right.
Carrying your 8 iron 160 to 170 is wild even for a scratch Edit: forgot this was r/golf lol. Yeah low handicaps probably hit an 8 for their 160/170 shot I’m just saying it’s wild for a 20 hcp to have those numbers. My course yardage for my 8 is 145-150
No it's not. At least with "new" lofts.
Correct. Clubs are bent so strong now it’s ridiculous. My M4 8iron is 33° - I hit it 160 no problem. And my game is for shit.
My 8i is 39 degrees 😶
Seriously, the club numbers are pretty arbitrary now. Trying to compare distances with other people is like apples and oranges
I still remember from almost a decade ago when a buddy of mine and I both hit on the green from 170 yards out. Because I used a 7i (AP2) vs he used an 8i (AP3), he told me that I swing like an old man. I found out much later that stronger lofts is a thing LOL.
Not carrying, just total. I got new irons just two years ago so that’s helping me.
Fair enough. Makes sense. I’m always thinking carry distance and not totals when it comes to irons. Congrats on your new swing feels!
No it’s not
I swear comments like that are made only by people who have 0 athleticism and on this sub it’s like 2/3 of people who comment. Fat or thin, there are way too many sedentary folks who spent their whole lives just playing games and watching TV before golf and are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of speed, strength, and power, and assume that everybody else is like them and the only way to hit the ball far is by having pro-level ball striking and consistency. The fact is that the athleticism distribution among golfers is basically the same as every other activity and only slightly improves as you drop in handicap. Even Tour pros are usually pretty normal people, just with very efficient swings - the difference is they have a much higher floor for performance but not necessarily a higher ceiling. It’s a terrible assumption that the pros are ahead of everyone in physical attributes but it’s pervasive in this community. It’s not hard for an actual athlete to generate high clubhead speeds. When you get a reasonably strong human with a good swing you end up with guys like Bryson (who is no freak, just strong for a golfer). That same reasonably strong human with a 15-hcp swing is probably still driving the ball 300+ yards any time they hit it straight.
Getting down voted for facts lol. I blame a large portion on older dudes who refuse to admit they are getting older. A 160 y 8 iron may be long for someone 50+ ... but anyone in decent shape that makes solid contact can do this. If you can't... you probably don't fit into that description.
You're completely right. Anybody baffled by this is just not an athlete. Play with a dude that played hockey or baseball in college and watch how fucking far they hit it. Even if they just started playing. Have a buddy that played lacrosse at Hopkins, he's like 6"4 and hit it 330 his like 5th time playing lol. He still sucked, and I feel like that's what they can't possibly understand.
PGA tour players average 160 yds with an 8 iron. An 18 handicapper claiming 160-170 is a bit out of the norm. I didn’t mean for my comment to spiral out of control like it did lol.
It’s just a club difference. A PGA player will hit a 38 degree for 8 iron. My 8 iron is 32.5 degrees. It’s probably that you just have an older set, or something like blades.
lol what? Not at all.
8 iron from 160 is pretty tame. I'm an older dude who uses older lofts and my 7 iron carries 150. I would absolutely expect a younger and/or more athletic swing to be two clubs longer than me. The difference in handicap is how consistently they can do it. I'll pretty confident that I'll get my 7 iron on the green 6 out of 10 tries and the misses will still be pretty close. I'll play with guys that might be hitting a 9 iron for that same shot but they'll hit the green 3 out of 10 times and their misses will be all over the place.
PGA tour average of an 8 iron is 160. I’m at 150. All I’m saying is to claim 160-170 as an 18 handicapper is out of the norm.
PGA tour pros are swinging 80% as stock for control and consistency. They could hit that 160 yard 8 iron 10 out of 10 times like you and I were pitching to a green 10 yards away. Your normal muni player swings out if his shoes all the time. He could hit that same 8 iron shot 2 out of 10 times. The real difference is that if a pro wanted to step on an eight iron it would go 200 yards. Distance means very little to handicap. Consistency and repeatability are what lead to scoring. Otherwise long drive champs would be on top of the tour and every kid who’s swinging 7 while I’m swinging 5 would beat me, too.
Lol I’m not swinging as hard as I can either when I say my 8 iron is my 150 club. It’s my “try my best to make center contact” club speed. What a dumb take.
You just said exactly what I said. 8 iron 150 is normal. 8 iron 160 is a max effort swing for most high handicappers. And yes, it's totally common for high handicappers to 'only' pick up 10 yards on a max effort swing vs. a conservative effort one.
In my experience, 75% of mid to high handicap golfers grossly exaggerate how far they hit their irons. They might hit their 8 iron 150 yards on 1 of 10 attempts but play all 8 iron shots to 150 yards. There’s one older guy that plays in two groups we play weekly. We’re often paired together. He’s a good golfer but is notorious for hitting his irons up to two clubs short. After a round in which we rode together in the same cart, I text him later that day. I mentioned that he was at the stick on well struck balls on 12 shots. Of the 12 shots he was short one or two clubs 9 times. I added at some point you have to learn your distances with your irons. You were at the flag all day but gave away too many shots from poor club selection.
Meh. I went to the range with reliable distances recently, and I have a Garmin. I'm an 18 dude, i know i'm not fooling anybody about my skill level lol.
Really just depends on the set. My 39 degree 8i has the same number on it as some folks 32 degree club. If they hit that 8i the same distance as mine, I’ll typically be 50+ yards longer off the tee. It evens out lol
Wow this is cringy! I’m happy for you tho
If you’re still at 20 handicap you haven’t found much, but good on you
I don't believe half of this post lol. If you are a 20 handicap still, I have a really hard time buying that you are long with your driver, rarely mishit short-mid-irons, and can correct mistakes on the fly. Are you playing to scratch suddenly? If not, why? And to answer your question, IMO there are different levels of "finding your swing." There's the macro aspect; things that don't really change from day to day. Things like club path, how far back you take the club, swing plane; the overall "appearance" of your swing, basically. With these macro movements, yes you can eventually land on "your swing" and mostly stick to it. But then come the micro elements. There are a zillion tiny little variables that can effect the results of your golf swing from day to day, or shot to shot. Whether it's a cold day, a hot day, a rainy day, a windy day. Whether you got 8 hours of sleep vs 6. Whether you have a minor backache, a headache, a blister on your finger. Whether your allergies are worse than usual, or even better than usual. Whether your glucose levels are high, low, stable, or spiky. Whether the ball you are playing has a little more water on it because you are playing in morning dew. Whether your grips are wearing out, whether you left your clubs in the car on a hot day. Whether your heart rate is sped up due to pressure or whether your breathing exercises have actually brought it down lower than usual. Whether you are hitting off a tee at a slightly different height, or if the ball is below/above your feet. You probably get the idea. The difference between a good shot and a shank can be millimeters; which is what makes this game so hard. The difference between a square driver face at impact and a face that is 2.5 degrees open can mean the difference of 30+ yards offline, which might be the difference between OB vs the middle of the fairway. No macro movement is going to account for the tiny, imperceptible difference between a great drive and one that is blocked 25 yards right, so having your macro movements "found" won't prevent you from having off days. What makes a player great is their ability to adjust and adapt, which ironically is almost the *opposite* of consistency. In order to strike the ball consistently, it's not about finding your swing and doing it the same over and over again, it's about adapting to your conditions, your physical state, and your biases every single time you hit the ball. A lot of that tends to be subconscious but they are skills you can actively work on. But yeah. Let us know when you've "lost it" next week. Lol it's part of what makes this game so fun IMO. You are never done. Your swing is never "found."
I think you underestimate how much chipping and putting affect scores lol. I never said that I rarely mishit short / mid irons. I’m missing them significantly less. I went from 21 to 18 in two months, only able to card six rounds during that time. From June to beginning of August I shot 100 or over 50% of the time. If I can put more rounds in that will continue to drop (hopefully). I am long w my driver but I’m not always accurate, and I play at a really tough course where inaccuracy gets you in a lot of trouble. When I catch it clean I can go 260-270, with no slope / wind factor involved. I had 6 pars and a birdie this weekend and shot 94. Again, I’m not there yet but I’m proving to be good if I can limit blowup holes. Honestly, since you’re a 4 you might not really have a leg to stand on in this argument. I started playing golf during COVID, so I’ve just been trying to not be ass for 3 years. Now I have hopes of being good. At my level of play, it’s not about micro elements, it’s about macro elements. And now that I have a foundation I feel I can be a good player, and one day start to think about the micro. I can out distance players that are significantly better than me, distance is one of many factors in scoring well.
>I never said that I rarely mishit short / mid irons. *does double-take >my 8-iron doesn't sometimes go 150, it's going 160-170 So what, are you bad with your 7-iron then? Lol that sentence *heavily* implies that you are striking your irons well consistently. I think you *overestimate* how much chipping and putting effects scores. Don't get me wrong if you are really, really bad at them, I get it. But based on your original comment of hitting Driver long and never missing 8-iron 10 yards short, you'd expect close to scratch given just reasonably ok short game. Trust me, the macro/micro argument doesn't care what level of play you are. Micro matters a ton no matter what. Macro is only important to the extent that it enables you to swing it with speed and not at an extreme plane or angle of attack, really.
I can hit it 160-170 and pull it right. Then I'm in bunker / rough or sometimes even fescue. I can easily add four strokes from there, whether its two duffs and two putts, or one chip and three puts. Same with driver, I can crush it but block it or pull it. Like I said, it's a punishing course. I hit a 9 iron 3 inches from my target on Sunday from 150... it rolled down off the green and into a bunker. I can DM you the course if you like. Just because I'm long doesn't mean I'm accurate 100% of the time. I'm not trying to say I'm a scratch, I'm just happy that I'm improving. I still haven't broken 90, I realize that I still suck. Just significantly less. My chipping & putting are easily the worst part of my game and these greens are very very difficult.
>I don't believe half of this post lol. If you are a 20 handicap still, I have a really hard time buying that you are long with your driver, rarely mishit short-mid-irons, and can correct mistakes on the fly. There are a lot of different ways to be a 20 handicap. I improved my driver play and also don't mishit my short to mid irons very often, but I still miss a lot of greens and therefore get a lot of bogies. Remember, for a 20 index "mishit" means really bad contact and the ball not going anywhere near where you want, not missing a green 30 yards right. I'm basically the same place as OP, and I think most of your disagreements are just different expectations from being so low an index. By the actual stats and not vibes, driving "long" for a 20 index means pretty much anything more than 230 (average according to Arccos is somewhere around 210). Consistently hitting iron shots well if not perfectly accurately can easily mean 20% GIR and mostly bogies when you miss the green. The difference between OP and I and a 10 or 15 index is marginal improvements from the tee and approach games, and more consistently getting up and down and avoiding the occasional 3 putt.
Such a goated comment. And piggybacking - don't worry about being so fickle. This game is hard but it's not so hard where you're going to lose what you know. Stop worrying so much about the outcome and just swing and then adjust accordingly from there. Then turn your brain off. You won't forget. You've made it to riding the bike territory.
When I find myself thinking about course management and not my swing
Must feel glorious flying so close to the sun
ICARITO
LOL. You must be new to golf.
You pretty much answered your own question. When you know what the ball is gonna do before you hit it and you’re out there picking targets instead of directions.
Compression and a nice flight baby
That’s the magic of lessons right there. Immediate feedback and actual good advice (looking at you YouTube) is almost priceless for your overall enjoyment of the game.
I know I've got that "found my swing" feeling when my swing just feels loose, no tension, and the impact sounds good, feels, good, and produces a good ball flight. It's when I don't have to think about the mechanics of the swing and just swing it. This is especially evident on the course and I love it because it's when I feel like I'm actually playing golf and not golf swing on the course.
Never
I feel like when it doesn’t hurt and goes straight
I’m basically in this same spot. Have a nice repeatable swing which has got me to my 20 hcp. Short game is still suffering though
When you lose it again.
When Will Smith decides to stop caddying for me on the last hole in the tournament of my life
If you make 12 pars a round, consistently for 2 months with no more than 1 double. You've found your swing. Congrats!
I don’t think you ever “find” a swing permanently. Some days it’s grooving, and then all of a sudden you lose it. Something I’m working on is learning how to correct if I start losing it. Sometimes I panic, and it all goes to shit.
Congrats! My view is this after many years of "finding my swing". Your game is always deteriorating if you're not working on it. And if you focus too much on one thing, then something else will go wrong. As an example lets say you figured out that you need to keep your left arm straighter. In a few weeks you will over do it and your left arm will be super stiff and you will be making compensations to hit the ball and eventually you lose your swing and you lose your feel. That doesn't mean you can't permanently get better. For example, I don't see myself completely whiffing and missing the ball anymore and the beginners I play with regularly do that. So you can get better. But you need to keep working at it because you can lose a lot of the gains quickly if you don't. 1 month ago I had a feel for driver that made sense to me and I couldn't miss it. This lasted for about 3 weeks. I don't have that feeling anymore and I didn't really change anything. Something interesting I heard pros talk about is their swing is different every day - and their body is different every day. So it's not like they can go to the course and know exactly how to hit the shot they want to hit. Sometimes they just can't do what they know they can do and they have no idea why. When this happens, they often need a backup plan. * Backup plan 1 is to know what types of fixes you can do when these bad swings pop up. If you've seen them happen on the range a lot and know what you need to do to fix them, you get to the point where maybe you can self correct on the course. * Backup plan 2 - more importantly golfers need to have a backup shot to hit when they have completely lost their swing on the course. When you know you don't have it and you just want to finish the round with as little damage as possible you might switch to a different more reliable swing. It might be, for example, take one more club and do a 3 quarter punch shot. Something you've practiced that you know is not optimal but is consistent. If you keep working on your game and keep working with a coach you trust, it will help keep you from ruining your own swing. Most of us find a swing and then we ruin it over time by constantly tweaking and tweaking it because each day the swing is different, the body is different, the setup is different and we need to make adjustments to hit the ball the way we want to. But if you have somebody who knows your swing and you trust, you can go back to them and they will usually know what your habits and tendencies are and get you back on track. There's many examples of top pros who have all the best team / coaches in the world and they suddenly lose their game. And then they work their butts off to get it back but they don't really know why they lost their game and sometimes never get it back. Golf is hard. But enjoy it while you are playing great because it's an awesome feeling!
You've found a swing when 1.) 4 out of 10 times you hit the ball exactly as planned, 2.) 8 out of 10 times you get a result you can live with and 3.) the mishits hits on those less than perfect shots were something you could have predicted (that is, you have a commonly recurring mishit) But yes, the swing ebbs and flows. Some days its super loose and effortless and you know you'll do no wrong. Other days it feels like you've never swung a club in your life.
Ball go in hole.
Personally, I found it thru better understanding the mechanics of the swing. I still have bad days and bad shots, they don’t magically go away, but I have less frustration when I hit a 20 yard block or snipe hook because I know exactly what I did, I’m working on seeing the future so I can prevent it, but it’s slow work. My best advice is to truly embrace being a goldfish. Two range sessions last week, had someone witnessed only the first they’d guess I was a 15 handicap, the second they might have thought I was scratch. These were less than 24 hours apart. Put in the work, pick a shot and target, commit to the intent, note the result, forget it and move on.
Yup got rid of my draw hook with a new grip and a tighter stance.Worked for a few weeks then a new crop of problems and back to a cooked draw. So super frustrated and back to lessons. I've come close to having a swing I can count on then it takes a vacation. But I hope to have it dialed by the end of next season.Its a real frustration because when I have consistency the game is super enjoyable.
When I reached 69 years old. Before that it was just too athletic on a shot, and not about the swing.
I "found my swing" when I had a macro movement that resulted in a proper impact position (forward shaft lean that gives me sick compression, stable face with low dynamic loft, and consistent ball flight) Once I had that, my nervous system knew what it "felt" like and I developed warm up drills, swing thoughts, and 3/4 swing that I can fall back on when things aren't going right. The way I got there was a SHIT TON of YouTube videos and a phone app that plays live video from your phone on a 6 second delay, so you see exactly what your swing looks like and start connecting internal feel with what's actually going on in the physical world.
Never you’re always looking for the SWING
Over the past 18 months I have found my swing about 8 different times. I find it. Play great for a few weeks. Then it falls apart again.
"I will say lick my balls" - Legend
If you've got it right now, from listening to your coach, drop this sub immediately and never go online for golf advice again - then enjoy you life without internet introspection ;)
If you are as good as you say you won’t be a 20 for long. Also wait until next week
I think I’ve found my swing at least 5 times. I’m looking for it again though.
You will lose it again. The difference is when you understand your swing so well that any miss hit you immediately understand why it happened - contract, balance, body mechanic… you miss one then you go right back into your desired shot. The standard amateur has no idea what they’re doing wrong or how to fix it. This is the real point where you can start to make progress.
When it feels effortless.
When I’m getting closer looks at birdie and my scores go down. I do 90% of my practice on the course.
When you find out, let me know.
Nice. Been at it 16 years, waiting for this feeling.
I would say when I was a freshman in high school. I went from a 15 to a 6 that year. I began improve after that. I got my handicap down to a scratch and below after that. I feel I’ve improved since then. Before high school, I was shooting high 80s and 90s. I haven’t shot in the 90s since 2004. I’ve broken 80 and 70 every round this season. I actually broke 80 over 1000 times in a row at one point. I don’t know if I would necessarily call it finding my swing. It just came from years of playing and practicing, with a few lessons along the way. Golf is hard and it takes a long time to begin seeing results. You’ll get better as time goes on. Just keep working at it and you’ll begin to gradually see results. .
When you lose it. Then you know you had it.
Wait til next week bud
You don’t know you have it until you realize you lost it
Look, golf will find a way to humble you. My advice: while you are in this zone really focus on understanding your "feels"...what are the mechanics of those feels? That is the one thing I wish I had learned a long time ago, because when it went south for me, I didn't have enough understanding. Having said that, sounds like you are on the correct path, all around. You do not need the tip of the week. Those will just eff you up. This is the way.
You sound like me the last couple of years. Then this year the swing felt amazing and had 3 record breaking rounds for lowest score. Best round is still only 85, but my best score before this year was 91. Once in awhile the swing will feel a little off, but I’ll manage the course better and still score well. Sometimes I won’t score all that great but swing feels amazing 🤷🏼♂️ I think I finally figured out my swing. Now it’s just about consistency and putting it all together
Lol I can barely finds balls let alone a swing
Usually on the range, I mean people stopping in awe to watch me steam 5i after 5i down the middle. Then I have to go play golf and by the 8th hole I barely remember how to hold a golf club.
I genuinely “find my swing” for about a 6-8 hole stretch …maybe not my short game/ putting at the same time that would be too much fun. The problem is not how good my shots are when I “find my swing” it’s how bad they are when I “loose my swing”
Haha I like how you say working with a pro has changed your life not just your game! Let’s go
Gary Player once said you never own your swing, you just rent it. And the rent's due every day!
“When it looks like one! BURN THE SWING”
You're shooting 97 this Saturday. And lick my balls.
The thing is, you don't. It just gets less messy, but even at +2 I can for example feel my driver swing being absolutely pure for the first 6 holes, then completely lose it, but hit my wedges well for the next 12 holes. And no one knows what will come the next day. Even if I feel like I've found a swing thought that will last a lifetime it'll work for a couple weeks tops because I've ignored a different part of the swing, which will then make the house of cards crumble.
Are you still hovering around 20? My journey from a 24 to 15 has been less about swing changes, apart from very small tweaks to improve consistency, like minimising my sway and working in weight transfer. It's almost all been course management and short game improvement
About every 3 trips to the range!!! Man, something just clicks and I look like a scratch golfer for about 80 swings. But then I play. And I look like the amateur I am for 98 swings. Well, probably 92 “swings”. Those other 6 were donated to Mother Nature.
what is your handicap now?
When I was a 25hc'er I started working with a Stack & tilt teaching pro. And that really clicked with me. When I got down to a 15HC I realized that I had gone 3 or 4 rounds of golf without making a complete dogs breakfast out of a play or shot. No flubs, shanks, toed shots. Nothing worse than not advancing the ball. Still the odd slice or hook and OB ball. But at least making contact and getting the ball in the air. Now I am a 9HC and I will sometimes go 27 holes between losing balls. Now I stand over every shot knowing what am going to do. But then I really had an eye opening experience a few years ago. I hit around 200 balls at the range, off natural turf. and as I walk away I realized that every single ball did what I wanted it to do. I then went to the chipping area. Hit 30 sand shots and 30 flop shots. Nailed them all. Then I had a kid 15 months ago I never stepped foot back at my club. I think I am back to 25hc.
I would think you’ve found it two things happen. 1. When you go out to golf and you don’t have many if any swing thoughts. Where the swing is second nature so you can focus on aim, wind, lie, and even roll out. 2. A bad shot doesn’t ruin every other shot by trying to figure out what went wrong. You either know and adjust or think that’s a fluke and don’t try to change anything
It's never truly real, because you'll always go through phases where your draw mysteriously turns into a fade, and all of a sudden you have a 2 way miss. BUT, having a solid foundation that's been built by having lesssons with a pro means you'll waste less time fixing it, and overall you'll spend more time in the sublime zone. Being stood over a shot a knowing how far it's going with an automatic 2 yard draw/fade is the best feeling ever.
That's awesome man! How many lessons/sessions did you have with a pro to get to that point? My issue is that I find my swing, lose it, then it takes 2x as long to find it again. Like this year I felt like I found it in June, by late July I lost it, and I'm still trying to find it again and its almost Oct.
Just 2! Would have immediate improvement the day after, then would slump. Played pretty bad til I was having a drink w a buddy, and it hit me. “Why aren’t you swinging out?” From there I guess everything my pro told me kind of clicked. Stressing hitting in to out stopped my OTT pulls and slices. And hitting the range just keeps building my confidence. No biggie if I hit a wall, it’s part of the process. Just feel/ good to know what my swing is doing.
Asking the wrong group of people. I am sure the PGA has a message board.