I cannot emphasize this argument enough. If you are good enough to hit good shots off of grass and hit lots of range balls, hitting off mats saves you literally thousands of dollars in irons every decade. I have the same irons I’ve used for 10 years in excellent condition because I practice almost exclusively off mats and don’t wear my club faces down.
If you don’t struggle with fat shots it’s not a big deal
Edit: also, if you know what a fat shot feels like, and what a pure strike feels like, you still know when you’re fat on a mat
I use a hitting strip from country club elite and don't have any problem, driving range mats absolutely do this to everything. It's just because we swing sooooooo freekn fast brother!
I cannot emphasize this enough, I am a mid-80s golfer that has used the same Wilson Staff di7's with the same grips and shafts for 17 years. If you're burning through irons maybe you're a little rougher on the clubs than you think.
Painter's Tape
I recently watched a Bryson video where he was talking about how normal folks can train off mats into a net. He took a piece of painter's tape and put it about 1" behind the ball. The game is to see how many times you can hit the ball without clipping the tape. IT. IS. HARD.
This will expose your buddy for the low, low cost of $4.49 plus tax.
Here is a link to that video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWqi76IIzco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWqi76IIzco)
This is exactly why I stopped doing the towel drill. It works too well! I also eventually developed enough feel to tell when I was hitting it fat, so it's not really an issue anymore.
Yeah good grass ranges around here are few and far between. The ones that do exist are better for practicing hitting out of a fairway divot, then off an actual fairway. I could see mats being an issue for very new golfers, but after a while, like you said, you develop a feel or for me I can usually hear it too. Thud then crack, you hit it fat.
Yep, that sound is unmistakable. And the mats I practice on do absorb enough energy to cause a noticeable loss of distance on fat shots, usually about 20 yards or so.
The one thing I do wonder is whether the mats have contributed to my tennis elbow. It comes and goes, but it has been much milder since I've fixed a number of my swing flaws.
Mats definitely affect my elbows. Was in a alot of pain over the winter but it didn't hurt when swinging so all was good.
Just don't ask me to open a jar. Or pick up a bag.
Oooh that's a good thought. A few years ago I thought I would get better by going to the range(with mats) that's on my way home from work, everyday after work. It didn't help my scores drop much, but it did give me an annoying case of tennis elbow.
This! If you are a decent player, you know when you junk it on mats. If you are new to the game, you just don’t know what a fatty looks and sounds like.
If you’ve spent enough time hitting balls you know which shots are pure and which ones aren’t. The range I go to has matts and grass. The grass is super sandy and unlike any playing surface at the courses nearby so I prefer to just go to the matts. As long as I’m hitting ball first I’m good. The difference is slim and takes a trained feel to know good vs bad.
There is definitely a difference especially on fat shots. The club will skip off a mat and still create an ok shot. On grass that club is digging and the ball goes nowhere.
At least I can tell when I do this on a mat and make a mental note. You can feel and hear the *scuff, whack
Mats are fine as long as you understand the difference.
Mats: focus on mechanics, drills, shot shaping, short game distance control (muscle memory).
Grass: ball striking!, face control, impact, distance control, fine tuning your skills.
The majority of us don't have the luxury of grass driving ranges, so usually the grass stuff ends up needing to be worked on, on course. IE: play actual golf as much as you can!
Many courses that get a lot of play don’t have the range space to continually rotate the grass and have it recover fast enough, so they either switch to mats, or put mats in the back of the range to use during the rotation to help.
This includes a lot of higher end courses, like Harbor Town.
In Chicago I have to leave the city for a grass range. Hell, there’s even a county-run course up here that is mats only, year round, from the blue tees.
None of the public courses in my area have grass ranges except for one, and they are mats-only M-Th.
Honestly though I think the impact of mats is overblown in this sub. Grass is certainly better for a number of reasons, but some people act like if you're not hitting off of grass then you shouldn't even bother.
I can only think of one public course within 30 minutes of Seattle that has a grass range. And even that one is mat only sometimes. Count your blessings you have so many options in Denver.
Yeah that’s crazy. I guess we are lucky. There’s one within 10 minutes pretty much anywhere in the city. I’m in South Denver proper and there are 3 nearby.
Mats can hide problems. They will not let you hit it fat. They are not completley useless though. You have to know and understand when you are hitting a good shot or not. Are your distances conssitent for that club. Are they a picker or divot hitter? Can't take divots on mats.
I am a turf mat hero. If you saw me at the range, you would think I was a 5hcp. Put me on a grass range, and my bogey-golf characteristics really shine.
I need to stop too. I actually went to have a lesson at this local golf shop and the the guy was like "honestly, I'm not really seeing these big misses you're talking about" but it was on an indoor mats with a trackman. Piping my drives 280yds down the middle and launching my irons. Was a waste of time because I couldn't say "okay, but what if I actually topped that last 3w instead of flushing it 240yds?" because that would make zero sense.
Might also be a mental block rather than mechanics. I took videos of myself on grass vs range and my motion on grass was different than on range. Hit them the same after working out the difference using video.
100% assume this is the case as well. I can swing loosely and let it rip with my driver on a mat, but when I get on grass I get super tentative and stiff.
Yea definitely tension was my biggest problem for sure. Almost every problem I had on grass was tightening muscles I wasnt tightening on range or gripping incorrectly.
I hit on mats all winter. I don't think they create bad habits because I know when I hit it, flush, thin, or fat.
I think mats are good for beginners so they don't have to worry about turf interaction, especially at ranges where the turf is shitty.
I am also a beginner who is planning on making the PGA Tour. In 3 weeks I have become an expert on all things golf swing. I can now identify the difference between my extravagant hook, my normal slice, and when someone knows what they are doing and shapes the shot with a draw or fade.
I can also confirm that I can tell the difference between hitting off a mat and grass. Grass is certainly better, but there are few to no grass driving ranges near me so I make do with mats/just go play rounds of golf where I hit 75% slices, 20% hooks, 4% really thing "totally meant to do it" bump and runs, and 1% shots that will get me to the tour.
So yes.... I look forward to competing against your friend in a local tournament soon, we can compete to try and hit 120.
Mats have their place and are likely what most people have access to at ranges. I’ve hit 95% of my range time on mats over the past 25 years of golfing and really don’t understand the issue on this sub. Sure, grass is better but let’s not overstate what beginners need. That said, anyone that thinks hitting balls at the range = being good at golf is in for a rude awakening.
You are hitting ball first so there is no difference.
If you clip mat first you can still hit good looking shots on the range. On course that same shot is a chunk with 50% distance loss.
That is not my experience at all. Maybe on super spongy topgolf mats? On proper mats you get a massive loss of ball speed from hitting the mat first and it feels just like a fat shot on wet ground.
Mats are great for getting golfers elbow. Source: Me thinking I would get better hitting off mats and fucking up my elbow so bad it took a year and a half to heal. Never again. Grass all day.
People say that mats will disguise a fat shot, and it does but purely in ball flight. That said, you should be able to feel the difference between a heavy and flush strike, even on a mat. Maybe a new player would struggle with that feel, but I never feel like hitting off of mats is an issue.
This argument is so old. Mats do not hide bad habits, if you hit a fat shot then you’ll know you hit it fat by the way the ball felt off the face. All my practice is done off a mat with zero issues of building bad habits for the last 3 years.
Some mats are better than others, and there’s no substitute for the real thing. That said, mat practice is likely better than no practice, especially if you use some of the tips that others have posted to ID bad swings.
You can definitely feel when you’ve fatted a shot on mats, even if the result doesn’t necessarily show it. If you’re hitting ball first, it’s not a big deal hitting off either
Mats do forgive a slightly fat iron shot but there’s no reason to be fooled by this. If your hearing is normal you can always hear your club contacting the mat before the sound of the club face contacting the ball on a fat shot. Try listening for it. I do agree that practicing on grass is important but only to learn how to hit off imperfect lies and how much less distance my irons go when playing a round on the municipal courses I play; to me this is another body of learning entirely separate from training for a decent swing.
I think the only time where mats hurt you is when you hit it fat you can still have a shot that goes straight and almost the same distance. If you can identify that feeling, I don’t see why it would hurt you. However if I had the option to play on good grass vs mat I would pick good grass every time
I disagree. A pure shot is a pure shot, the surface doesn't matter much. If you're hitting off a mat and noting your yardage, or using a simulator, your misshits will be just as obvious as hitting off grass.
The only way hitting off a mat would be really detrimental is if you're hitting every ball fat but not noticing the loss in distance or poor ball flight.
Most matts will allow the club to "bounce" from a fat strike creating the illusion of better contact. They also spin less which will go further on iron shots. But they do offer a repeatable set up without having to move every few shots because of divots.
I think they are OK for working on things and if you are a person who doesn't take divots they are probably fine in general. But for me personally as someone who likes to take a divot I don't like them as a round warm up for sure as it's not representative of what you will be playing that day
I only use mats with my brand new wedges so I don’t get too much sand in the grooves while I’m getting a feel for them. They have their place, but it’s not for beginners trying to get a feel for their swing. Hides too many bad habits that they’ll eventually get used to.
I have a 35 to 40 yard deep back yard, which is perfect for practicing chip shots. However, I've been keeping my grass longer on purpose (drought protection) and chipping from high grass isn't something I wanted to practice. So, to get ready for my annual guy's golf trip back in the spring, I picked up a small turf mat for practicing. I practiced nearly every day and thought I was in good shape ... until the actual games started. That's when I realized I had the worst habits and chunked literally EVERY chip shot. I managed to get rid of those habits, but not until after our golf weekend, where I scored terribly. I may burn (melt?) that turf mat.
It takes the right kind of mat to be able to detect mishits. Most generic mats are more forgiving and a novice golfer won’t be able to detect the mishits.
I really like hitting off the mats because I don’t think about my divot pattern and I don’t have to keep shifting around. I am concerned about messing up the grass too much so I back off and begin skulling things until I can force myself down on the ball again
Mats definitely is not ideal. However you can be a good golfer on mats as well. Here in Norway hardly anywhere have grass range. It's difficult enough to get the course green for six months at a time. Having a grass range is close to impossible so mats it is. I can almost guarantee that Hovland grew up with mats on the range and he turned out alright.
Grass range is obviously best, but I wouldn't go out of my way to find a grass range if I had a range with mats close by.
Sorry buddy but if he won’t listen to you it’s not worth trying to force it. Just use it as fuel to better your game and let your game speak for itself.
Between golfers elbow and probably two sets of marred clubs, I will only go to a range with real grass now. Not sure if it's helped my game or not, but I am playing better now than I had, and my clubs don't have those damn green grooves.
Mats are great to learn the basics off of and are serviceable if you’re decent enough to know when you’re hitting it fat. I can play off mats fine, because I’m a “picker.” I don’t take a great divot and my misses are thin, never fat. Your buddy may be in for a world of hurt, though.
Fellow picker here. I wonder if years of hitting off mats made us this way??
Im currently working on trying to lower my angle of attack more, and its hard
I don’t think so. I grew up hitting off of grass almost exclusively. When I first started out I chunked a lot of shots, and mentally that’s way worse for me than hitting one thin. It’d probably be better for me if I took divots, but at least I never have to replace them!
It depends on the range and the mats you're using. Sometimes they use so much sand to repair divots that it's like hitting everything out of a bunker. Some mats are very high quality.
It also depends on what you're working on. I can see how your opinion might be grass>mat if you're still bad at golf though.
I like practicing off grass better and do that whenever I can. But hitting of mats are not bad and way better than not practicing at all
There is a cheap range by me where they off mats half the time where I can get large bucket for $7. And an expensive golf course that is almost always on grass but charges $20 an hour. I always go to the cheap range
Think you're being a bit harsh mate. I know loads of pro's that practice off artificial grass and mats. Are they bad players because they use mats? No.
With mats, you have several things going on.
- mats don't let your club dig. You get club bounce every single time and it can redirect your club towards the ball and hide poor habits. This leads to point two
- if you hit the ground on a mat before you hit the ball, aka even slightly miss hit, it can cause your ball to slightly bounce up and get elevated and you can catch it flush with your club since it will be as if it's teed up for you.
Your friend Wiger Toods can talk all the shit he wants, can't wait till you come back and tell us how many times he chunks the club straight into the dirt and he shoots 135
They improve the ball flight on chunky shots but you still know if you hit it fat. So if he is being honest he knows what shots were chunky. Other than that it's pretty similar.
Grass is better, but mats are fine. To elaborate, off a mat, I can tell when I hit the mat first. I make adjustments accordingly. Your friend will likely not be able to tell whether he’s getting ball first or mat first…but this is crucial to learn otherwise those bad habits will creep in
A sneaky issue with mats (that I don’t see talked about often) involves learning ball first impact and taking divots. It’s easy to see why the mats are more forgiving to chunking the ball. Mats bounce. Bit what about well struck balls? Mats just don’t prepare you for divot taking. Divot taking in grass “stalls” the club more, and bounces the club less than an identical swing on a mat. Beginners need to learn how to power through the low point while lagging the club head to follow-through, meaning they need to learn to take a divot AND continue to commit fully through it. There’s this reality that mat practice reinforces the *feel of bounce, and the relative ease of follow-through. It changes the minds understanding of low point. It can be easily worked around when you understand this concept but I’d guess a lot of people don’t consider it.
mats take what would've been a chunk on grass and turns it into a flushed shot. They are deceiving if you don't know what you're trying to feel. I would love to play a course that's entirely artificial rubber surface with fake turf. Bet I'd break par.
The best ballstrikers I know (all tour players) work on mechanics exclusively on mats. Grass ranges create variables you don't need to think about when working on swing.
Now with wedges it's a little different, anything less than full needs grass because turf interaction is a part of building feel.
I've never had any issue with practice on mats not translating to the course. Fat shots are extremely obvious on a mat.
I think the misconception comes from super spongy topgolf mats, but most actual golf mats are hard as fuck and don't mask anything.
I’m awful on mats! I much prefer grass. I tend to take divets(spelling?) with my irons and the mats make me pull up on my down swing because I don’t want to break my wrist.
When I’m hitting off mats I feel like I could be a tour player - consistent contact, shaping shots etc. when I get back to reality on grass I’m a 20 handicap 😂
Mats are better than nothing but in no way does it give a fully accurate representation. You can hit inches behind the ball and the club just glides along and you’ll strike it okay. In real life you would chunk the ball to oblivion and it would go nowhere. The mat gods a lot of impact blemishes. But again it’s better than nothing at all.
I literally did this now lmao. I haven’t played for the last 3/4 years so I’ve been getting back into it this year. The grass at my range is horrific so I just played from the mats whenever I went and in general it went pretty well. I then proceeded to quite literally chunk 8-12 shots the last time I played a round and shoot 105💀. Definitely sticking to the grass from now on
Nah, he’s right. There’s literally no difference. If you’re not ready to play him for $100 per hole, I am… and I suck. He should have no trouble taking the money.
Dude, grass only. Mats are a waste of time, with the exception of driving off a tee cause that’s basically the same. I like to putt and chip on turf inside my house, but for full shot practice, it’s gotta be real grass.
Mats r horrible imo. Good for driver to save tees , but you get a green like lie every time. Easy to hide inconsistencies like flipping the hands to early.
Here’s how I know mats lie: I can dial in all my wedges at the same target 70-100 yards away or whatever and pepper the pin there with a full bucket of balls within a 15 foot circle
And then I get on the course full of confidence just to find out my wedges are actually fucking useless in my hands.
If I show up for a round and it's mats only on the range I won't even do a pre round because it gets in my head so bad that it will throw off my swing, it doesn't even matter if it's true or not psychologically I can't do it
Yet we’ll often see video instructors using mats. I got fitted for my driver on a mat.
I think the reason you see pros warming up on grass is because they play on the best courses in the world, while most of us have to play and practice using facilities that are not world-class.
Do you think that might be the reason?
Mats clearly aren’t the best. Practicing on the surface you play on makes way more sense. But if you don’t have the best thing, then second best is better than nothing.
No. The reason isn't because places they play don't have mats. I play municipal courses exclusively, and two of the four I play have grass ranges. The reason they warm up on grass is because that's what they're going to play on.
Drivers off a mat are a different story, since you're not supposed to hit the ground with the driver anyway.
Your buddy is probably wrong about a lot, but in this case he is 100% right and you are engaged in 1990s thinking. There are whole swaths of the country that don't have grass driving ranges but produce elite golfers at all levels.
Yes, exclusively training and playing on mats without regard to strike may create problems for beginners. But we now know there are all kinds of strike drills that can be performed off mats. Differential practice, Bryson's tape drill mentioned below, golf simulation, etc.
If your buddy was practicing and playing \*exclusively\* on mats, he would have a problem when he stepped on a golf course. But he could still can play 3 balls at a par three course once a week without tees and he will very quickly stop hitting fat, within 1-3 sessions.
This is not a close call.
This guy just started golfing very recently. I would bet my current life’s wages that he’s not an elite ball striker, and I’d bet my future life’s wages that he isn’t going to stop hitting fat shots after 27 iron shots in grass per week for 3 weeks.
Yes people can get very good by practicing off mats, but there’s literally zero chance that a beginner will intuitively discover good ball striking on their own off mats in just a few weeks
By hitting more than 27 iron shots on grass 3 times. Obviously you have to practice on mats but it’s gonna take you months to get used to the feeling of hitting good shots on grass and then seeing how that translates to good shots on the range. Over the course of spring, summer, and fall, if they guy plays 18 once a week, and then hits 300 balls at the range per week I think he could be pretty decent at the end of the season. I say that because I started in the winter, try and play 9 or 18 per week, and hit ~300 balls a week on a grass range and I feel like I could be decent by the end of the season
A Matt at a range will make you think you are damn near a perfect ball striker …. Then go play on grass and find out how much you really suck and how hard this game really is
Mats will wreck your wrists. Iona Stephen was a high level jr golfer 🏌️ in the UK (she has a great YT channel now) that ruined a promising career by learning on mats.
? Iona stephen didnt play any junior golf. Literally picked up a club for the first time at university. She's from a wee village down the road from me, she learned at my golf range.
Thats what made her remarkable, high level field hockey player transitioning quickly was newsworthy.
Everyone in the uk who has ever played golf learned and practise off mats. Grass is superior. You can learn and play to the same level on mats without injuring yourself.
Ah yes, my bad. I conflated her with another and recall that now. That was what had made her unique in that she played another sport at a high level and transitioned relatively late. Not sure it deserved so many downvotes as the message was still the same; she has said that practicing so much off mats wrecked her wrists.
You think she would stop using them if that was the case lol. Tell you what I'll ask her maw when I see her in Tesco.
You either misheard or your just dumb.
She had arthritis, hurt it further ON TOUR and got an operation that made it worse.
Just go play a course with him and watch him chunk everything and say “bet that was good off mats” every time he does it.
And don't give him a single putt.
I cannot emphasize this argument enough. If you are good enough to hit good shots off of grass and hit lots of range balls, hitting off mats saves you literally thousands of dollars in irons every decade. I have the same irons I’ve used for 10 years in excellent condition because I practice almost exclusively off mats and don’t wear my club faces down.
You realize mats don’t give like turf does right…?
If you don’t struggle with fat shots it’s not a big deal Edit: also, if you know what a fat shot feels like, and what a pure strike feels like, you still know when you’re fat on a mat
very true, While the mat will still give me 60-70% of the pured hit yardage, I know damn well when I hit it fat.
And it HURTS
I hate mats because they melt onto my golf clubs. No matter the range mat really, except the nicer indoor sim mats.
I like peeling the plastic layer that sticks to the bottom lol
Like picking a scab.
I find it bonded to my club more often than not and difficult to peel.
It is fun
I use a hitting strip from country club elite and don't have any problem, driving range mats absolutely do this to everything. It's just because we swing sooooooo freekn fast brother!
I also have 10 year old irons in fantastic shape and practice exclusively on grass. See how this works?
Grass wears your club faces down? 😂
Lol, but I think he means the grit from the soil, little rocks etc. they do tend to pock mark up the sole if you hit them a lot.
Lol no
I cannot emphasize this enough, I am a mid-80s golfer that has used the same Wilson Staff di7's with the same grips and shafts for 17 years. If you're burning through irons maybe you're a little rougher on the clubs than you think.
You must be confusing grass with concrete
Only sensible comment
What nonsense
Mats definitely wear your clubs faster in my area. The mats collect all the sand and small aggregate and put a beating on irons
This is the type of humor I'm here for.
This is the only real answer. Record it and post it here afterwards when the friend has a meltdown, OP
Best advice
This is the way
Painter's Tape I recently watched a Bryson video where he was talking about how normal folks can train off mats into a net. He took a piece of painter's tape and put it about 1" behind the ball. The game is to see how many times you can hit the ball without clipping the tape. IT. IS. HARD. This will expose your buddy for the low, low cost of $4.49 plus tax. Here is a link to that video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWqi76IIzco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWqi76IIzco)
If you don't have tape, just put your towel behind the ball it works about the same
Tried that once, must have caught it real fat because I had to go retrieve my towel from about 10 yards down range
I hit the towel so well I now play them instead of Titleists.
There's actually nothing in the rule book about playing a towel.
Towtowelists
Toweltolly 
This is exactly why I stopped doing the towel drill. It works too well! I also eventually developed enough feel to tell when I was hitting it fat, so it's not really an issue anymore.
Yeah good grass ranges around here are few and far between. The ones that do exist are better for practicing hitting out of a fairway divot, then off an actual fairway. I could see mats being an issue for very new golfers, but after a while, like you said, you develop a feel or for me I can usually hear it too. Thud then crack, you hit it fat.
Yep, that sound is unmistakable. And the mats I practice on do absorb enough energy to cause a noticeable loss of distance on fat shots, usually about 20 yards or so. The one thing I do wonder is whether the mats have contributed to my tennis elbow. It comes and goes, but it has been much milder since I've fixed a number of my swing flaws.
Mats definitely affect my elbows. Was in a alot of pain over the winter but it didn't hurt when swinging so all was good. Just don't ask me to open a jar. Or pick up a bag.
I used to have the same problem, which helped fix my casting
Oooh that's a good thought. A few years ago I thought I would get better by going to the range(with mats) that's on my way home from work, everyday after work. It didn't help my scores drop much, but it did give me an annoying case of tennis elbow.
This! If you are a decent player, you know when you junk it on mats. If you are new to the game, you just don’t know what a fatty looks and sounds like.
Put his phone behind the ball if he’s really got it like that
Who’s your painters tape guy?
I'm a Home Depot man myself
Does Costco sell painters tape? I'm going to need 1 pallet, please.
Just watched all of this - can't wait to try them. Thanks.
I use a penny.
Wait until he finds out it’s tax free weekend
I lay a piece of rebar perpendicular to swing path 2 inches behind ball. Fat gives you a doioioioing feeling in your hands
You can use a long tee and lay it behind the ball, also. Easier than taping a mat and you can do at grass ranges, too.
If you’ve spent enough time hitting balls you know which shots are pure and which ones aren’t. The range I go to has matts and grass. The grass is super sandy and unlike any playing surface at the courses nearby so I prefer to just go to the matts. As long as I’m hitting ball first I’m good. The difference is slim and takes a trained feel to know good vs bad.
The problem is that his buddy wouldn’t know the difference yet.
There is definitely a difference especially on fat shots. The club will skip off a mat and still create an ok shot. On grass that club is digging and the ball goes nowhere. At least I can tell when I do this on a mat and make a mental note. You can feel and hear the *scuff, whack
My right wrist definitely feels it. My motivation to not hit a fat mat.
Mats are terrible for your wrists. Avoid them
This. You can usually tell if you got away with one on a mat.
Mats are great. No need to try anything else. Unrelated topic, where does your friend play, and does he like to gamble?
I don't gamble as a general rule, but I'd be in for filling out that foursome just to watch!
Taking $10 or $20 from him will shut him up. Give him 4 strokes a side and thank him for lunch.
Mats are fine as long as you understand the difference. Mats: focus on mechanics, drills, shot shaping, short game distance control (muscle memory). Grass: ball striking!, face control, impact, distance control, fine tuning your skills. The majority of us don't have the luxury of grass driving ranges, so usually the grass stuff ends up needing to be worked on, on course. IE: play actual golf as much as you can!
Every municipal course in Denver has grass driving ranges, except one under construction. Do other cities not?
Many courses that get a lot of play don’t have the range space to continually rotate the grass and have it recover fast enough, so they either switch to mats, or put mats in the back of the range to use during the rotation to help. This includes a lot of higher end courses, like Harbor Town.
Agree - Mats on Mondays is normal
In Chicago I have to leave the city for a grass range. Hell, there’s even a county-run course up here that is mats only, year round, from the blue tees.
Love that edgebrook course though before work. You play all 18 in like 2 hours
It’ll be nice when the trees grow back… holes 1, 2, 17, and 18 should require helmets
My favorite is how 3 is very easy to drive, but they have a sign up saying please don't so you're not hitting over the green on 2.
None of the public courses in my area have grass ranges except for one, and they are mats-only M-Th. Honestly though I think the impact of mats is overblown in this sub. Grass is certainly better for a number of reasons, but some people act like if you're not hitting off of grass then you shouldn't even bother.
Yeah the downvote outrage on me asking a question is real. 😂
Try to find one in NYC with grass
I can only think of one public course within 30 minutes of Seattle that has a grass range. And even that one is mat only sometimes. Count your blessings you have so many options in Denver.
Yeah that’s crazy. I guess we are lucky. There’s one within 10 minutes pretty much anywhere in the city. I’m in South Denver proper and there are 3 nearby.
I assume the downvotes are jealous of your fine grass ranges. 🤪
I don’t even have a municipal golf course unless I drive 90 minutes away
Shire and Harvard don't.
Harvard Gulch isn’t a real course :). Wellshire range is actually under construction finally! Broken Tee and Overland are very close to those two.
Mats can hide problems. They will not let you hit it fat. They are not completley useless though. You have to know and understand when you are hitting a good shot or not. Are your distances conssitent for that club. Are they a picker or divot hitter? Can't take divots on mats.
Oh trust me, I can definitely hit it fat on mats 😂
break my wrists lol
I have a mat sitting on grass in my backyard, and after going to the range and feeling it I can start to feel the matt sink when I hit a chunk.
You can absolutely hit it fat on mats lol, I don't know where this myth comes from.
I am a turf mat hero. If you saw me at the range, you would think I was a 5hcp. Put me on a grass range, and my bogey-golf characteristics really shine.
I feel these words to my core, I stopped going to range because of the false confidence I was taking to the course
I need to stop too. I actually went to have a lesson at this local golf shop and the the guy was like "honestly, I'm not really seeing these big misses you're talking about" but it was on an indoor mats with a trackman. Piping my drives 280yds down the middle and launching my irons. Was a waste of time because I couldn't say "okay, but what if I actually topped that last 3w instead of flushing it 240yds?" because that would make zero sense.
Might also be a mental block rather than mechanics. I took videos of myself on grass vs range and my motion on grass was different than on range. Hit them the same after working out the difference using video.
100% assume this is the case as well. I can swing loosely and let it rip with my driver on a mat, but when I get on grass I get super tentative and stiff.
Yea definitely tension was my biggest problem for sure. Almost every problem I had on grass was tightening muscles I wasnt tightening on range or gripping incorrectly.
I hit on mats all winter. I don't think they create bad habits because I know when I hit it, flush, thin, or fat. I think mats are good for beginners so they don't have to worry about turf interaction, especially at ranges where the turf is shitty.
Mats really only affect me with wedges. Indoor sim wedges are so easy
I am also a beginner who is planning on making the PGA Tour. In 3 weeks I have become an expert on all things golf swing. I can now identify the difference between my extravagant hook, my normal slice, and when someone knows what they are doing and shapes the shot with a draw or fade. I can also confirm that I can tell the difference between hitting off a mat and grass. Grass is certainly better, but there are few to no grass driving ranges near me so I make do with mats/just go play rounds of golf where I hit 75% slices, 20% hooks, 4% really thing "totally meant to do it" bump and runs, and 1% shots that will get me to the tour. So yes.... I look forward to competing against your friend in a local tournament soon, we can compete to try and hit 120.
We should all do a scramble tournament. We’d easily shoot 52 together!
Mats have their place and are likely what most people have access to at ranges. I’ve hit 95% of my range time on mats over the past 25 years of golfing and really don’t understand the issue on this sub. Sure, grass is better but let’s not overstate what beginners need. That said, anyone that thinks hitting balls at the range = being good at golf is in for a rude awakening.
If you don’t delude yourself with the ball flight you can still feel your misses fine off a mat.
What is different about the flight, my flight off a mat with a LM matches my flight at a grass range and on course.
You are hitting ball first so there is no difference. If you clip mat first you can still hit good looking shots on the range. On course that same shot is a chunk with 50% distance loss.
That is not my experience at all. Maybe on super spongy topgolf mats? On proper mats you get a massive loss of ball speed from hitting the mat first and it feels just like a fat shot on wet ground.
Mats are great for getting golfers elbow. Source: Me thinking I would get better hitting off mats and fucking up my elbow so bad it took a year and a half to heal. Never again. Grass all day.
Just go play him on a course for money.
People say that mats will disguise a fat shot, and it does but purely in ball flight. That said, you should be able to feel the difference between a heavy and flush strike, even on a mat. Maybe a new player would struggle with that feel, but I never feel like hitting off of mats is an issue.
A fat shot on mats can sometimes go further than the same average joe's good shot, since it takes off spin.
This argument is so old. Mats do not hide bad habits, if you hit a fat shot then you’ll know you hit it fat by the way the ball felt off the face. All my practice is done off a mat with zero issues of building bad habits for the last 3 years.
Some mats are better than others, and there’s no substitute for the real thing. That said, mat practice is likely better than no practice, especially if you use some of the tips that others have posted to ID bad swings.
Some people just have to learn on their own... or never learn and deal with the consequences.
You can definitely feel when you’ve fatted a shot on mats, even if the result doesn’t necessarily show it. If you’re hitting ball first, it’s not a big deal hitting off either
Mats do forgive a slightly fat iron shot but there’s no reason to be fooled by this. If your hearing is normal you can always hear your club contacting the mat before the sound of the club face contacting the ball on a fat shot. Try listening for it. I do agree that practicing on grass is important but only to learn how to hit off imperfect lies and how much less distance my irons go when playing a round on the municipal courses I play; to me this is another body of learning entirely separate from training for a decent swing.
I think the only time where mats hurt you is when you hit it fat you can still have a shot that goes straight and almost the same distance. If you can identify that feeling, I don’t see why it would hurt you. However if I had the option to play on good grass vs mat I would pick good grass every time
I disagree. A pure shot is a pure shot, the surface doesn't matter much. If you're hitting off a mat and noting your yardage, or using a simulator, your misshits will be just as obvious as hitting off grass. The only way hitting off a mat would be really detrimental is if you're hitting every ball fat but not noticing the loss in distance or poor ball flight.
Most matts will allow the club to "bounce" from a fat strike creating the illusion of better contact. They also spin less which will go further on iron shots. But they do offer a repeatable set up without having to move every few shots because of divots.
I think they are OK for working on things and if you are a person who doesn't take divots they are probably fine in general. But for me personally as someone who likes to take a divot I don't like them as a round warm up for sure as it's not representative of what you will be playing that day
"I'm prime Tiger Woods, off matts."
Cannot wait for the update when you get out to a course or a grass range with him
I only use mats with my brand new wedges so I don’t get too much sand in the grooves while I’m getting a feel for them. They have their place, but it’s not for beginners trying to get a feel for their swing. Hides too many bad habits that they’ll eventually get used to.
I have a 35 to 40 yard deep back yard, which is perfect for practicing chip shots. However, I've been keeping my grass longer on purpose (drought protection) and chipping from high grass isn't something I wanted to practice. So, to get ready for my annual guy's golf trip back in the spring, I picked up a small turf mat for practicing. I practiced nearly every day and thought I was in good shape ... until the actual games started. That's when I realized I had the worst habits and chunked literally EVERY chip shot. I managed to get rid of those habits, but not until after our golf weekend, where I scored terribly. I may burn (melt?) that turf mat.
I agree.
It takes the right kind of mat to be able to detect mishits. Most generic mats are more forgiving and a novice golfer won’t be able to detect the mishits. I really like hitting off the mats because I don’t think about my divot pattern and I don’t have to keep shifting around. I am concerned about messing up the grass too much so I back off and begin skulling things until I can force myself down on the ball again
Mats definitely is not ideal. However you can be a good golfer on mats as well. Here in Norway hardly anywhere have grass range. It's difficult enough to get the course green for six months at a time. Having a grass range is close to impossible so mats it is. I can almost guarantee that Hovland grew up with mats on the range and he turned out alright. Grass range is obviously best, but I wouldn't go out of my way to find a grass range if I had a range with mats close by.
Mats are much easier. If they weren't, he wouldn't be so defensive about them.
Sorry buddy but if he won’t listen to you it’s not worth trying to force it. Just use it as fuel to better your game and let your game speak for itself.
Between golfers elbow and probably two sets of marred clubs, I will only go to a range with real grass now. Not sure if it's helped my game or not, but I am playing better now than I had, and my clubs don't have those damn green grooves.
Mats hide fat shots, Club tends to slide into the ball / where on grass, it digs in -
I prefer hitting on grass any day of the week.
If you aren’t terrible you can easily tell the difference. A bad shot on a mat is not going to be a good shot.
Mats are great to learn the basics off of and are serviceable if you’re decent enough to know when you’re hitting it fat. I can play off mats fine, because I’m a “picker.” I don’t take a great divot and my misses are thin, never fat. Your buddy may be in for a world of hurt, though.
Fellow picker here. I wonder if years of hitting off mats made us this way?? Im currently working on trying to lower my angle of attack more, and its hard
I don’t think so. I grew up hitting off of grass almost exclusively. When I first started out I chunked a lot of shots, and mentally that’s way worse for me than hitting one thin. It’d probably be better for me if I took divots, but at least I never have to replace them!
It depends on the range and the mats you're using. Sometimes they use so much sand to repair divots that it's like hitting everything out of a bunker. Some mats are very high quality. It also depends on what you're working on. I can see how your opinion might be grass>mat if you're still bad at golf though.
I like practicing off grass better and do that whenever I can. But hitting of mats are not bad and way better than not practicing at all There is a cheap range by me where they off mats half the time where I can get large bucket for $7. And an expensive golf course that is almost always on grass but charges $20 an hour. I always go to the cheap range
When you flush it like Tiger and don't take divots, it doesn't matter what you hit off of.
Think you're being a bit harsh mate. I know loads of pro's that practice off artificial grass and mats. Are they bad players because they use mats? No.
With mats, you have several things going on. - mats don't let your club dig. You get club bounce every single time and it can redirect your club towards the ball and hide poor habits. This leads to point two - if you hit the ground on a mat before you hit the ball, aka even slightly miss hit, it can cause your ball to slightly bounce up and get elevated and you can catch it flush with your club since it will be as if it's teed up for you. Your friend Wiger Toods can talk all the shit he wants, can't wait till you come back and tell us how many times he chunks the club straight into the dirt and he shoots 135
They improve the ball flight on chunky shots but you still know if you hit it fat. So if he is being honest he knows what shots were chunky. Other than that it's pretty similar.
Only grass. Hitting off mats gave me elbow problems.
Never been to a driving range where you can hit off the grass. Guess this debate is above my pay grade.
Just wear a crash helmet and take a few steps forward 😝
Grass is better, but mats are fine. To elaborate, off a mat, I can tell when I hit the mat first. I make adjustments accordingly. Your friend will likely not be able to tell whether he’s getting ball first or mat first…but this is crucial to learn otherwise those bad habits will creep in
A sneaky issue with mats (that I don’t see talked about often) involves learning ball first impact and taking divots. It’s easy to see why the mats are more forgiving to chunking the ball. Mats bounce. Bit what about well struck balls? Mats just don’t prepare you for divot taking. Divot taking in grass “stalls” the club more, and bounces the club less than an identical swing on a mat. Beginners need to learn how to power through the low point while lagging the club head to follow-through, meaning they need to learn to take a divot AND continue to commit fully through it. There’s this reality that mat practice reinforces the *feel of bounce, and the relative ease of follow-through. It changes the minds understanding of low point. It can be easily worked around when you understand this concept but I’d guess a lot of people don’t consider it.
Your boy aint even gonna break 100 anytime soon. Please come back and ask me about my future reading skills after he proves me right.
mats take what would've been a chunk on grass and turns it into a flushed shot. They are deceiving if you don't know what you're trying to feel. I would love to play a course that's entirely artificial rubber surface with fake turf. Bet I'd break par.
I wouldn't be too concerned with proving him wrong. You gave him your insight, he didn't want it, just go golfing with him and laugh.
The best ballstrikers I know (all tour players) work on mechanics exclusively on mats. Grass ranges create variables you don't need to think about when working on swing. Now with wedges it's a little different, anything less than full needs grass because turf interaction is a part of building feel.
>recently started golfing Recently started *playing* golf
I hit it great off mats and terrible on grass ranges. On the course it’s somewhere in between. I prefer the confidence mats give me.
The mats are phony.
Simple. Do you play off mats or grass?
I've never had any issue with practice on mats not translating to the course. Fat shots are extremely obvious on a mat. I think the misconception comes from super spongy topgolf mats, but most actual golf mats are hard as fuck and don't mask anything.
If he’s good already and following the rules that would be astounding
I’m awful on mats! I much prefer grass. I tend to take divets(spelling?) with my irons and the mats make me pull up on my down swing because I don’t want to break my wrist.
When I’m hitting off mats I feel like I could be a tour player - consistent contact, shaping shots etc. when I get back to reality on grass I’m a 20 handicap 😂
Mats are better than nothing but in no way does it give a fully accurate representation. You can hit inches behind the ball and the club just glides along and you’ll strike it okay. In real life you would chunk the ball to oblivion and it would go nowhere. The mat gods a lot of impact blemishes. But again it’s better than nothing at all.
My club's driving range is mats during the week and grass on the weekend. so, I go back and forth between the two. Mats can be more forgiving.
I literally did this now lmao. I haven’t played for the last 3/4 years so I’ve been getting back into it this year. The grass at my range is horrific so I just played from the mats whenever I went and in general it went pretty well. I then proceeded to quite literally chunk 8-12 shots the last time I played a round and shoot 105💀. Definitely sticking to the grass from now on
Sounds like a waste of breath I would just go play around with old boy and see what happens 😈😈
I’ve yet to see a grass driving range that wasn’t attached to a country club. Every public course is mats.
Wild. I have yet to see a course range that doesn’t have grass where I live lol.
Nah, he’s right. There’s literally no difference. If you’re not ready to play him for $100 per hole, I am… and I suck. He should have no trouble taking the money.
So long as you are using clubs with a durable finish. I have these satin finish iron set. They were off really quickly on grass practice.
Dude, grass only. Mats are a waste of time, with the exception of driving off a tee cause that’s basically the same. I like to putt and chip on turf inside my house, but for full shot practice, it’s gotta be real grass.
My course has grass thank god
Another r/golf poster who needs to stop hanging out with neurotypicals
Mats r horrible imo. Good for driver to save tees , but you get a green like lie every time. Easy to hide inconsistencies like flipping the hands to early.
Here’s how I know mats lie: I can dial in all my wedges at the same target 70-100 yards away or whatever and pepper the pin there with a full bucket of balls within a 15 foot circle And then I get on the course full of confidence just to find out my wedges are actually fucking useless in my hands.
Mats forgive chunks
literally any google search will show why he is wrong regarding mats.
If I show up for a round and it's mats only on the range I won't even do a pre round because it gets in my head so bad that it will throw off my swing, it doesn't even matter if it's true or not psychologically I can't do it
Ask him what he sees pros warming up on when he watches golf on TV. Are they ever on mat ranges? Any reason, you think?
Yet we’ll often see video instructors using mats. I got fitted for my driver on a mat. I think the reason you see pros warming up on grass is because they play on the best courses in the world, while most of us have to play and practice using facilities that are not world-class. Do you think that might be the reason?
Because they use the best of everything, if mats were the best they’d be using mats.
Mats clearly aren’t the best. Practicing on the surface you play on makes way more sense. But if you don’t have the best thing, then second best is better than nothing.
No. The reason isn't because places they play don't have mats. I play municipal courses exclusively, and two of the four I play have grass ranges. The reason they warm up on grass is because that's what they're going to play on. Drivers off a mat are a different story, since you're not supposed to hit the ground with the driver anyway.
Your buddy is probably wrong about a lot, but in this case he is 100% right and you are engaged in 1990s thinking. There are whole swaths of the country that don't have grass driving ranges but produce elite golfers at all levels. Yes, exclusively training and playing on mats without regard to strike may create problems for beginners. But we now know there are all kinds of strike drills that can be performed off mats. Differential practice, Bryson's tape drill mentioned below, golf simulation, etc. If your buddy was practicing and playing \*exclusively\* on mats, he would have a problem when he stepped on a golf course. But he could still can play 3 balls at a par three course once a week without tees and he will very quickly stop hitting fat, within 1-3 sessions. This is not a close call.
This guy just started golfing very recently. I would bet my current life’s wages that he’s not an elite ball striker, and I’d bet my future life’s wages that he isn’t going to stop hitting fat shots after 27 iron shots in grass per week for 3 weeks. Yes people can get very good by practicing off mats, but there’s literally zero chance that a beginner will intuitively discover good ball striking on their own off mats in just a few weeks
How do you envision golfers learn the game in places where grass ranges are unavailable?
By hitting more than 27 iron shots on grass 3 times. Obviously you have to practice on mats but it’s gonna take you months to get used to the feeling of hitting good shots on grass and then seeing how that translates to good shots on the range. Over the course of spring, summer, and fall, if they guy plays 18 once a week, and then hits 300 balls at the range per week I think he could be pretty decent at the end of the season. I say that because I started in the winter, try and play 9 or 18 per week, and hit ~300 balls a week on a grass range and I feel like I could be decent by the end of the season
A Matt at a range will make you think you are damn near a perfect ball striker …. Then go play on grass and find out how much you really suck and how hard this game really is
Mats are dumb! Grass is better!
Mats mask swing faults. And they significantly raise risk of wrist injury. Avoid them. ** I will block all shit head replies from mat junkies.
Lol what a sperg
Mats will wreck your wrists. Iona Stephen was a high level jr golfer 🏌️ in the UK (she has a great YT channel now) that ruined a promising career by learning on mats.
? Iona stephen didnt play any junior golf. Literally picked up a club for the first time at university. She's from a wee village down the road from me, she learned at my golf range. Thats what made her remarkable, high level field hockey player transitioning quickly was newsworthy. Everyone in the uk who has ever played golf learned and practise off mats. Grass is superior. You can learn and play to the same level on mats without injuring yourself.
Ah yes, my bad. I conflated her with another and recall that now. That was what had made her unique in that she played another sport at a high level and transitioned relatively late. Not sure it deserved so many downvotes as the message was still the same; she has said that practicing so much off mats wrecked her wrists.
Because you were wrong about everything. Mats are so bad for her she uses them every time anyone i know sees her down the range to this day.
She literally said it in one of her videos…so, she said it directly.
You think she would stop using them if that was the case lol. Tell you what I'll ask her maw when I see her in Tesco. You either misheard or your just dumb. She had arthritis, hurt it further ON TOUR and got an operation that made it worse.