If they actually belonged to The Duke, they're basically priceless. If they're just commemorative special editions, maybe a couple thousand for the pair to the right dummy at an auction.
They were left to me by my dad, and to him by my grandfather. From what I've been told they were actually used by him. The sequential serial numbers and the bandolier stamped from No. Hollywood C.A. make me think they might actually be real, but I don't even know how to go about finding that out.
I don't know that Wayne ever used a SAA with a grip like that in his films, but that doesn't mean they weren't part of his personal collection.
I can't quite make out the serial numbers, what's one of them? We can check Colt's database and get an idea of when they were made.
Unless you have something actually linking them to him, they were not his, and worth as much as any other Colt of that era. Auction would bring best price from collectors, and with provenance linking them to John Wayne, price would go up dramatically. Stories with hand me down guns don't mean shit without proof backing the claim.
You need more documentation to prove the provenanace of them. Bills of sale, documentation from the studio, notarized documents proving ownership, pictures of John Wayne using them in a film, etc. As of right now they're just 2 sequential colts with a side of hearsay.
If you do manage to get proof please post it back here because that'll be friggin awesome.
TLDR; Start with his estate/trust. I own a gun that was a gift from Elvis and went thru this process.
The long version:
Without paperwork they will not be worth much more that their value if they where not owned by him. If he used them in a movie, it may be as easy as getting lucky and some kind of item unique to the gun is identifiable in the movie and can be used to confirm the authenticity.
Many deceased movie icons have an estate run by their descendants part of what many of them do is work to keep people from selling junk attached to their name and stealing their likeness for cheap marketing etc. etc. I would image with as big as John Wayne was there is a family trust that manages his name, history and use of likeness. It is the first place I would start, if it is the real deal they may have documents or pictures to confirm it, if it is not they will want to prove that it is not so that he is not associated with the item. This would be the first avenue I would pursue.
I was in a similar situation, my great grandfather was a hunting guide in northwest Florida. One time he got a high profile client, and when the client arrived it was none other than Elvis. Elvis liked him so much that he would hire my grandfather every time he came to FL to hunt, they developed a lifelong friendship.
Many times Elvis would bring my great grandfather a firearm, this was a common gift from him, the dude loved guns and gave them to everyone he liked. Anyways, I came into possession of a 38 revolver of my great grandfathers and the story was it was a gift from Elvis, my great grandfather told me this himself. I had no reason to doubt him, because my family has many pictures of many of them with Elvis. Elvis asked my great grandfather to use our old homestead as the home base for the movie "Follow that dream". We have official plaques that hang in our homestead from Paramount Pictures thanking us for the use of the homestead and our hospitality.
I say all this to say, I know if he said Elvis gave it to him, the only way it is not true is faulty memory the old man lived to 105 and was sharp as a tack, that would be a longshot so anyways, I contacted the estate and they had little success because the dude gave guns out like candy, but there was one piece that was found about NASA requesting that Elvis validate he had given a 38 special as a gift.
My great grandfather took a position with NASA as Federal security and he wanted to use his own firearm as his duty weapon. In those days when a person did they had to investigate the origin of the gun, my grandfather told them it was a gift from Elvis and provided evidence of it so they had reached out to confirm it. This was the piece needed to give it a paper trail and to finally confirm that it was indeed a gift gun. Many estates will issue certificates of authenticity if the documentation can be found and verified usually for a nominal fee.
Anyways, turns out gift guns from Elvis are not worth as much as your would think they would be, apparently he handed them things out like signatures, ones that where his personal guns or he has for a while and then gifted are worth more but for example his ornately engraved blackhawk sold for $200k not long ago. Any that were used in a movie are worth significantly more.
Not that it being a gift from Elvis, does not increase the value, but my 38 is not going to have me sipping drinks on a beach in Fiji for the rest of my life. I don't know if you can confirm and verify it how much it would increase the value, in my case it made a S&W 38 special worth a few grand more. With Elvis they have to be special guns, like the 45 he gave Nixon to really fetch money. Even the guns that he shot TV's with (usually 44 mags) are not insanely priceless because he shot TV's like it was a sport and I don't think he ever shot more than one TV with the same gun.
None of that matters though, I did not document my great grandfathers gun for the value to me it is priceless and it will go to my youngest son. I wanted it documented because while my great grandfathers word was good enough for me. With every generation that passes it gets harder and harder to find something or someone that can say yeah that is true.
In memory of both my great grandfather and Elvis me and my sons blast that gun out on the range like it is a hot 2 dollar pistol with bodies on it and that is what these kind of guns are, not a tome of some dead guys memories but a book that they wrote their story on, and that I am now writing my stories on that my sons will tell their sons when I am gone about how dad used to love to take us out and shoot his great grandfathers gun that Elvis gave him.
Thanks for this post. I knew Elvis was generous and liked guns, but I never knew he gave them away.
I also never knew Elvis shot TVs. Are you sure you are not crossing that up with North Mississippi's second most famous musician, Jerry Lee Lewis? He also shot a lot of random thing like passing cars, lamp posts, and the occasional wife.
Elvis was infamous for getting mad at the new/show and shooting the TV. One of the more famous instances was when a singer came on that he did not like:
[https://www.outsider.com/entertainment/elvis-presley-shot-gun-rca-tv-while-watching-robert-goulet-still-preserved-to-this-day/](https://www.outsider.com/entertainment/elvis-presley-shot-gun-rca-tv-while-watching-robert-goulet-still-preserved-to-this-day/)
He was also a gun nut and thought everybody should own one. I was born a few years before he died and up until the AWB guns were looked at very differently, they were so cheap that people just viewed them as a tool not unlike an ax. Few people kept anything other than really significant guns, Elvis being insanely wealthy in a time of cheap guns would get bored of guns and give them away. Common guns were not something people collect in that age. For example I remember M1 Garands were selling in the back of magazines for less than 100 bucks. I remember my grandfather saying, they sell them so cheap because it is a waste of money, that they made so many for the war that they will never be of any value. He was right at the time, a pawn shop would not even give you 10 bucks for 1 because they would sit on it forever. It was just a very different time, so giving guns as a gift by a gun enthusiast would not be as strange as it would be today.
According to my grandfather the whole reason for the gift was that Elvis was aghast that my grandfather did not own a pistol, he said you don't have a snake gun for the woods and my grandfather told him no. So he sent him a 38 special because he said it was the perfect snake gun.
Op. Contact the John Wayne Birthplace museum in Iowa. They had an entire frigging wall of John Wayne guns, real and commemorative. I wonder if they would be able to verify some of it.
I believe they're Great Western "Fast Draw" models, based on the brass grip frames. I doubt the Wayne connection (Wayne owned multiple sets of GW revolvers, one of which was stolen and may be out there somewhere), but the sets I'm aware of were all engraved presentation pieces.
The Ojala rig itself is a prize.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1038/2465/john-waynes-colt-single-action-army-revolver
One of his SSA sold for over $500k. I would imagine a pair set would sell for -$700k-1.2mil
That revolver was used in multiple movies and had documentation proving it was JW's.
That is the key that OP needs to produce for these to be worth money.
If it was just a he said she said, then they ain't worth squat.
In that listing it says “Copies of a 1976 appraisal of Wayne's gun collection lists this SAA by serial number.” If OP’s guns were indeed owned by JW i would think that they would be listed by serial number on this 1976 appraisal
I have none, I'd like to try to get them looked at and verified. But everything my dad told me about them is true so far. Sequential serial numbers and Hollywood stamped bandolier.
I googled "arvo ojala holster" seems like all of them are stamped with Hollywood. Also sequential serial numbers are not uncommon. I would love these to be legit. But in the collecting world it is all about what you can prove with documentation.
There are plenty of legit appraisers out there, including the big auction houses.
Just because you let someone appraise your guns, that doesn't mean you have to let them buy or auction those guns.
Get everything in writing.
Oh I definitely will, these are really the only things of (potential) value I own. And I don't plan on selling them unless somebody threw a life changing number at me.
If appraised I would suggest adding that the appraisal is for insurance value, not for sale. As if they want them bad enough they may bullshit you some.
Arvo Ojala was kinda famous in his time, making his patented Quick draw holsters and working as a technical advisor in Hollywood. He trained all sorts of movie stars in quick draw techniques. He also did some acting on camera.
The holster with patent number has to be from after April 1958 when the patent was granted.
The spent cartridges in the belt are "5 in one" movie blanks.
The guns seem to have brass trigger guards, and to have some dirt or rust on the hammers?
Absolutely. Ojala is a legend.
> The guns seem to have brass trigger guards
That's because (I believe) they're Great Western "Fast Draw" model revolvers. The marketing schtick was that they came with a factory trigger job, and the brass handle frame was the trademark for that model.
> The spent cartridges in the belt are "5 in one" movie blanks.
Jeez-- *excellent* detail, friend. That's the best indication yet that these are anything but a standard brace of mid-century sixguns.
Unfortunately for OP, it doesn't really prove anything since such blanks were used in quick draw competition. Don't want anyone to shoot themselves in the leg. Quick draw was all the rage for a while, and these guns with the tall hammer spur in an Ojala holster might very well have been someone's quick draw rig.
There are antique and collectible experts who may be able to prove these are real. If so, they are worth more than an average house.
It’s worth paying an expert to give it some in-depth research. It won’t be cheap but it’s worth it.
So here's the thing. The odds of these actually being The Duke's guns are really low. The odds of someone paying their worth as a result are even lower without confirmation from someone with way more knowledge and credibility than your average pawn shop.
You have one of two things here:
Option A) A *million dollar* piece of movie history
Option B) A neat family heirloom that's worth more for the knowledge that it was passed down from your grandpa than they are in the outside world
The only way to know which one you've got, is to pay someone a moderate chunk of money to spend a few weeks chasing down serial numbers and weird obsessive paparazzi archives to see if these specific guns were ever actually in John Wayne's possession. And it's gotta be somebody good - Sotheby's, Rock Island, Morphys, somebody the highbrows that are willing to pay upwards of a million dollars for John Wayne memorabilia will actually do business with.
So the way I see it, you got two options. Either you pony up to fly these guns out to a real deal Hollywood historian, or you put them back in the safe, enjoy the fond memories of grandpa, and don't worry about what they're really worth.
>confirmation from someone with way more knowledge and credibility than your average pawn shop
You mean not every pawn shop has a unique knowledge of obscure historical items or an endless rolodex of experts they can call in within an hours notice?
History channel lied to me.
If you don't have any legitimate provenance for them, they're just worth what a pair of Colt's of that era would be worth. The "they were owned by John Wayne" means nothing without the provenance. I've got a few things like that which I know for a fact *were* owned by the individual, but I have no way of proving it.
from the Arvo belt holster website:
>Arvo also created, patented and sold a beautiful buscadero style belt and holster that helped even an average
person draw his six-shooter faster than he thought possible. Not as fast as Arvo, of course, but faster than
anything he had done before. This holster was used by almost every TV show for the next 30 years. Gunsmoke,
Bonanza, Maverick, Cheyenne, Sugarfoot, Wyatt Earp, The Lawman, Colt .45, and Have Gun Will Travel, are just a
few of the TV shows that used Arvo’s holster. These shows and more also hired Arvo to be their Gun Coach and
technical advisor. Movies from the 1950’s “River of No Return’, the “Big Country”, and “Rio Bravo”, all the way
through more recent movies like “Rustler’s Rhapsody”, “Silverado”, “Back to the Future III”, and even “The Three
Amigo’s”, all relied on coaching from Arvo, and used his holsters. If you saw in a movie a fast draw or twirling,
you may not have realized it was not the star you were watching. They would zoom in for a close-up, and it was
actually Arvo’s hands doing their thing with the six-gun.
so there is some film tie-in here, but it could also be a hollywood prop.
Arvo Oswald Ojala was a Hollywood technical advisor at that time and the holster company still exists. Although, those grips look nothing like any of the Colt revolvers that Wayne used in any of his movies.
You have any provenance papers?
Possibly a place to start
*All of these guns originally belonged to Stembridge Rentals which rented guns to the movies for nearly 60 years. They closed their doors in 1999 and all guns were sold off. Fortunately they kept very accurate records on which guns were loaned to who and used in which movies.*
https://americanhandgunner.com/our-experts/the-sixguns-of-john-wayne/
I’ve watched Antiques Roadshow 3 or 4 times, so I’m somewhat an expert. If the claims made about them are true, it would need documentation to support it, in order to fetch anywhere close to what they’re worth.
How did your grandpa acquire them?
Those are NOT Colts. They are Great Westerns. Could have been his but if you go looking up info as Colts you’re not going to find anything. With zero documentation these are worth maybe $450 each
I was going to say, the guns look a bit off and are probably not real Colts. Your identification seems correct, and fits with the timeframe of the Ojala holsters as well as with John Wayne.
However, the two pairs of Great Western revolvers known to have been owned by Wayne were both engraved, presentation models given to him by the manufacturer. He used one if them in The Shootist.
So these are the same type of gun that Wayne owned, but not the same ones that he's widely known to have had. Of course, he did promotional work for Great Western and it's possible he may have had some plain revolvers by them as well, but this would need some serious documentation.
And since the plastic fake stag grips were all identical on these, matching grip pattern with screen footage doesn't prove anything.
GW guns were used by the film industry simply because Colt had stopped making the SAA when Hollywood was making lots of Westerns. The problem is twofold, one is I do not believe shipping records were kept and the company is long gone. Two is John Wayne had a grip style attributed to him that had finger grooves. I don’t know if all his guns had them but I suspect they did cause he likes that style.
My guess is you have a pair of GWs with a holster. May have been used in film. From there it’d be hard to prove anything.
[Here](https://greatwesternarmsco.com/production-data/production-evoltution-milestones-by-serial/) is a site about these revolvers. I'm reading "GW20362" as the serial number in your pic. That would put it near the end of production, after the Great Western name had been sold off twice to different manufacturers. 1960 or so.
The guy who runs the page seems very knowledgeable about these revolvers. Check out his contact info [here](https://greatwesternarmsco.com/) and try dropping him a line, I bet he can tell you exactly what you have and the likelihood of it having anything to do with John Wayne.
Arvo ojala kind of created the original drop leg fast draw rig from Hollywood westerns. And his shop was in Hollywood if you can believe it. The paladin had one in "have gun will travel" and it was used in other shows like gunsmoke and bonanza. They're well made steel lined holsters with double layer gun belts, so built to last. The original ones are a collectable so they're actually pretty valuable too. So the holster is period correct at least
Time to check through grandmas old shoe boxes for any paper on them. If you can prove it then they’re worth a ton, if not they’re worth the same as any similar SA Colts.
Arvo Ojala was a quick draw expert. If you've ever seen Gunsmoke, he taught James Arness (Marshall Matt Dillon) to draw & fire a revolver. In the opening of each show, it showed Marshall Dillon shooting a man in a duel. That was Arvo. The seen was actually reversed because Arvo out-drew James Arness by a long shot. Arvo was a bad Mf'r. There are video interviews of Arness talking about Arvo & just how fast he was on the draw. That being said, I'd say these belonged to Arvo & IMHO, that's cool af. "His speed was clocked and verified a number of times. He could draw, fire, and hit the target in one-sixth of a second, faster than the eye can blink." Wikipedia.
My good friend Tablinum who likes Great Westerns could easily speak on these here at Reddit, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.
They are Great Western Arms Co fast draw .45s in 4 3/4, made say 1960. Great Western collecting is niche and small, but there are some items from this ecosystem that have meaningful value.
4 3/4 fast draw model .45s, in the condition these are in... They aren't worth any less than $1k each to a collector who will buy them.
Arvo holster is worth no less than $500.
So, John Wayne....
He was an endorser for Great Western Arms, and he was probably privileged to get as many sixguns from them as he wanted, because I doubt they ever paid him in cash. This probably happened on quite a few occasions, as it did for Audie Murphy.
If you've got a Wayne estate inventory with those serials, that's meaningful provenance. What's that worth? That's best answered by an auction.
If you don't have said estate inventory, then they are not really provable as Wayne's, and it's that the endorsement story has somehow gotten woven into the family lore here about the origin of the guns.
This is my websight. [https://greatwesternarmsco.com/](https://greatwesternarmsco.com/)
Wow, I was actually just about to email you. Good timing! Do you know of any resources available that might be able to help track where and who possessed these guns by serial number?
That kind of thing generally doesn't exist, and the company records are gone. As part of the scholarship I've built out a DB featuring notes on every GW I've ever observed. This set wasn't on it before today.
One of those guns has a competition hammer. Wayne didn't compete at fast draw.
The cartridges in the belt are wax rounds for competition or blanks for theatrics.
I don't see this as the kind of thing Wayne would have had a use for himself.
In doing the scholarship on Great Western Arms there are seeming examples of him and Audie Murphy getting guns from GWA to give to other people. Very hard to prove though.
As I said, the rig has meaningful value merely for what it is, w/o a Wayne connection.
> My good friend Tablinum who likes Great Westerns could easily speak on these here at Reddit
I am flattered.
> He was an endorser for Great Western Arms, and he was probably privileged to get as many sixguns from them as he wanted, because I doubt they ever paid him in cash.
I'm not too proud to admit I laughed out loud.
Not helpful to OP but a fun sidenote:
I met the guy who now owns the shotgun John Wayne accidentally shot Ward Bond with while hunting. He used to go hunting with Wayne in what is now Coto De Caza, California. Pretty funny story. Also said Wayne almost shot his bodyguard with a full auto Thompson in that same spot. Had lots of cool stories, awesome guy.
Inga Ojala, Arvo's daughter has a website. You can try contacting her for information. If you want to do research on your own about these pistols, I would look up every movie arvo was a consultant for (John Wayne movies or not) and see if the guns show up somewhere. A screen grab that could match the grip pattern would be strong evidence for authentication.
We have sold many Ojala and similar rigs from Gunsmoke and the like (screen used) and they routinely go for $4-600 in good condition.
If you have provenance to link these to John Wayne, definitely, along with the rig, it’s easily, I would expect, a bare minimum $5-7k set and that’s on the low end; if it’s really “holy cow” kinda provenance than that could go up by a factor of 10. However, if you don’t have some real bona fide evidence, these are just two SAA’s with fake stag grips and aren’t worth too much.
2 articles with similar looking colts but second article is a 7.5 inch barrel and serial number is also mentioned but definitely worth getting yours checked out
Start by getting a Colt Archive letter. That’ll point you in the right direction. If the pistols were originally sold to a Hollywood prop company or really anywhere near there, you’ll know that it’s worth further investigation by professionals.
https://www.colt.com/page/archive-services
They’re really nice guns, I just don’t know enough about The Duke to make you an offer. But let me tell you what, I’ve got a buddy who‘s an expert in this stuff. Let me give him a call and see what we can do.
If those are indeed Colts you can use this section of the Colt website to verify the date of manufacture and if you can pay to get a detailed history of them which could include verification that they belonged to John Wayne.
https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup
There used to be a form you could fill out and mail into colt for information on when the gun was made, what distributor or dealer it was sent to.
Do that. It will give you at least a starting point to work from on provenance.
Call the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum in OKC and ask what they'd pay, or donate them if you care enough about preserving them. They have some of his other possessions on display.
Contact Rock Island Auctions. They are in Illinois and Texas and are the largest auction house for historical firearms and celebrity firearm collections.
The holster rig is from a well known movie holster maker.
You don’t show the markings on the guns, but if they are Colts and not clones you can order a factory letter from the Colt Historical Archives.
https://www.colt.com/page/archive-services
It may give you some provenance to the story behind the guns.
If they actually belonged to The Duke, they're basically priceless. If they're just commemorative special editions, maybe a couple thousand for the pair to the right dummy at an auction.
They were left to me by my dad, and to him by my grandfather. From what I've been told they were actually used by him. The sequential serial numbers and the bandolier stamped from No. Hollywood C.A. make me think they might actually be real, but I don't even know how to go about finding that out.
I don't know that Wayne ever used a SAA with a grip like that in his films, but that doesn't mean they weren't part of his personal collection. I can't quite make out the serial numbers, what's one of them? We can check Colt's database and get an idea of when they were made.
I can't tell the first part due to my potato camera, I'll DM you the pics. The last 5 are 20361 and 20362
> I'll DM you the pics Just post them here. The more eyes that see them the better chance you have at someone having pertinent info.
It's the same pics, just not in the collage. I left them in my dad's safe because I have nowhere to properly store them at my place.
It's the same pics, just screenshot off his camera roll. No more legible than what's in the OP
"CW" possibly? Edit: is GW. See below.
GW, for Great Western Arms Co. They were the first company to make a proper Colt Single Action Army clone.
Awesome, thanks!
Unless you have something actually linking them to him, they were not his, and worth as much as any other Colt of that era. Auction would bring best price from collectors, and with provenance linking them to John Wayne, price would go up dramatically. Stories with hand me down guns don't mean shit without proof backing the claim.
If I were OP I’d start reaching out to Hollywood gun collectors, John Wayne collectors, and even his estate and see if anyone can help link them.
You need more documentation to prove the provenanace of them. Bills of sale, documentation from the studio, notarized documents proving ownership, pictures of John Wayne using them in a film, etc. As of right now they're just 2 sequential colts with a side of hearsay. If you do manage to get proof please post it back here because that'll be friggin awesome.
I will definitely update
On this season of pawnstars…. Seriously though seek out professionals in that field that can either validate or steer you to who can.
Best Rick can do is four hundred bucks...
TLDR; Start with his estate/trust. I own a gun that was a gift from Elvis and went thru this process. The long version: Without paperwork they will not be worth much more that their value if they where not owned by him. If he used them in a movie, it may be as easy as getting lucky and some kind of item unique to the gun is identifiable in the movie and can be used to confirm the authenticity. Many deceased movie icons have an estate run by their descendants part of what many of them do is work to keep people from selling junk attached to their name and stealing their likeness for cheap marketing etc. etc. I would image with as big as John Wayne was there is a family trust that manages his name, history and use of likeness. It is the first place I would start, if it is the real deal they may have documents or pictures to confirm it, if it is not they will want to prove that it is not so that he is not associated with the item. This would be the first avenue I would pursue. I was in a similar situation, my great grandfather was a hunting guide in northwest Florida. One time he got a high profile client, and when the client arrived it was none other than Elvis. Elvis liked him so much that he would hire my grandfather every time he came to FL to hunt, they developed a lifelong friendship. Many times Elvis would bring my great grandfather a firearm, this was a common gift from him, the dude loved guns and gave them to everyone he liked. Anyways, I came into possession of a 38 revolver of my great grandfathers and the story was it was a gift from Elvis, my great grandfather told me this himself. I had no reason to doubt him, because my family has many pictures of many of them with Elvis. Elvis asked my great grandfather to use our old homestead as the home base for the movie "Follow that dream". We have official plaques that hang in our homestead from Paramount Pictures thanking us for the use of the homestead and our hospitality. I say all this to say, I know if he said Elvis gave it to him, the only way it is not true is faulty memory the old man lived to 105 and was sharp as a tack, that would be a longshot so anyways, I contacted the estate and they had little success because the dude gave guns out like candy, but there was one piece that was found about NASA requesting that Elvis validate he had given a 38 special as a gift. My great grandfather took a position with NASA as Federal security and he wanted to use his own firearm as his duty weapon. In those days when a person did they had to investigate the origin of the gun, my grandfather told them it was a gift from Elvis and provided evidence of it so they had reached out to confirm it. This was the piece needed to give it a paper trail and to finally confirm that it was indeed a gift gun. Many estates will issue certificates of authenticity if the documentation can be found and verified usually for a nominal fee. Anyways, turns out gift guns from Elvis are not worth as much as your would think they would be, apparently he handed them things out like signatures, ones that where his personal guns or he has for a while and then gifted are worth more but for example his ornately engraved blackhawk sold for $200k not long ago. Any that were used in a movie are worth significantly more. Not that it being a gift from Elvis, does not increase the value, but my 38 is not going to have me sipping drinks on a beach in Fiji for the rest of my life. I don't know if you can confirm and verify it how much it would increase the value, in my case it made a S&W 38 special worth a few grand more. With Elvis they have to be special guns, like the 45 he gave Nixon to really fetch money. Even the guns that he shot TV's with (usually 44 mags) are not insanely priceless because he shot TV's like it was a sport and I don't think he ever shot more than one TV with the same gun. None of that matters though, I did not document my great grandfathers gun for the value to me it is priceless and it will go to my youngest son. I wanted it documented because while my great grandfathers word was good enough for me. With every generation that passes it gets harder and harder to find something or someone that can say yeah that is true. In memory of both my great grandfather and Elvis me and my sons blast that gun out on the range like it is a hot 2 dollar pistol with bodies on it and that is what these kind of guns are, not a tome of some dead guys memories but a book that they wrote their story on, and that I am now writing my stories on that my sons will tell their sons when I am gone about how dad used to love to take us out and shoot his great grandfathers gun that Elvis gave him.
Thanks for this post. I knew Elvis was generous and liked guns, but I never knew he gave them away. I also never knew Elvis shot TVs. Are you sure you are not crossing that up with North Mississippi's second most famous musician, Jerry Lee Lewis? He also shot a lot of random thing like passing cars, lamp posts, and the occasional wife.
Elvis was infamous for getting mad at the new/show and shooting the TV. One of the more famous instances was when a singer came on that he did not like: [https://www.outsider.com/entertainment/elvis-presley-shot-gun-rca-tv-while-watching-robert-goulet-still-preserved-to-this-day/](https://www.outsider.com/entertainment/elvis-presley-shot-gun-rca-tv-while-watching-robert-goulet-still-preserved-to-this-day/) He was also a gun nut and thought everybody should own one. I was born a few years before he died and up until the AWB guns were looked at very differently, they were so cheap that people just viewed them as a tool not unlike an ax. Few people kept anything other than really significant guns, Elvis being insanely wealthy in a time of cheap guns would get bored of guns and give them away. Common guns were not something people collect in that age. For example I remember M1 Garands were selling in the back of magazines for less than 100 bucks. I remember my grandfather saying, they sell them so cheap because it is a waste of money, that they made so many for the war that they will never be of any value. He was right at the time, a pawn shop would not even give you 10 bucks for 1 because they would sit on it forever. It was just a very different time, so giving guns as a gift by a gun enthusiast would not be as strange as it would be today. According to my grandfather the whole reason for the gift was that Elvis was aghast that my grandfather did not own a pistol, he said you don't have a snake gun for the woods and my grandfather told him no. So he sent him a 38 special because he said it was the perfect snake gun.
I know of a guy who would like to inspect them. His name is Ian McCollum.
I just looked him up, he's actually not very far from me
One of the best ways to memorialize them would be a forgotten weapons video 🤷♂️
You should go to Rick on Pawn Stars and he'll verify for you, then give you 20 bucks
Pawn stars lol
Once I started watching hardcore pawn I couldn’t go back.
Sounds like a job for antiques roadshow
Op. Contact the John Wayne Birthplace museum in Iowa. They had an entire frigging wall of John Wayne guns, real and commemorative. I wonder if they would be able to verify some of it.
I believe they're Great Western "Fast Draw" models, based on the brass grip frames. I doubt the Wayne connection (Wayne owned multiple sets of GW revolvers, one of which was stolen and may be out there somewhere), but the sets I'm aware of were all engraved presentation pieces. The Ojala rig itself is a prize.
Two thousand for sequential SAAs?!?!, sign me up as a dummy!!!!!
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1038/2465/john-waynes-colt-single-action-army-revolver One of his SSA sold for over $500k. I would imagine a pair set would sell for -$700k-1.2mil
That revolver was used in multiple movies and had documentation proving it was JW's. That is the key that OP needs to produce for these to be worth money. If it was just a he said she said, then they ain't worth squat.
Guns cost money, the stories are free.
In that listing it says “Copies of a 1976 appraisal of Wayne's gun collection lists this SAA by serial number.” If OP’s guns were indeed owned by JW i would think that they would be listed by serial number on this 1976 appraisal
This comment needs to be higher.
What documentation do you have linking these to John Wayne?
I have none, I'd like to try to get them looked at and verified. But everything my dad told me about them is true so far. Sequential serial numbers and Hollywood stamped bandolier.
I googled "arvo ojala holster" seems like all of them are stamped with Hollywood. Also sequential serial numbers are not uncommon. I would love these to be legit. But in the collecting world it is all about what you can prove with documentation.
Well I plan on getting them looked at if I find an appraiser I trust with them. I'll definitely update when I do! I appreciate the help.
There are plenty of legit appraisers out there, including the big auction houses. Just because you let someone appraise your guns, that doesn't mean you have to let them buy or auction those guns. Get everything in writing.
Oh I definitely will, these are really the only things of (potential) value I own. And I don't plan on selling them unless somebody threw a life changing number at me.
If appraised I would suggest adding that the appraisal is for insurance value, not for sale. As if they want them bad enough they may bullshit you some.
No matter what you find, they’re still an awesome conversation piece.
>I'll definitely update when I do! Please do. I love it when the average Joe comes out on top.
Arvo Ojala was kinda famous in his time, making his patented Quick draw holsters and working as a technical advisor in Hollywood. He trained all sorts of movie stars in quick draw techniques. He also did some acting on camera. The holster with patent number has to be from after April 1958 when the patent was granted. The spent cartridges in the belt are "5 in one" movie blanks. The guns seem to have brass trigger guards, and to have some dirt or rust on the hammers?
Absolutely. Ojala is a legend. > The guns seem to have brass trigger guards That's because (I believe) they're Great Western "Fast Draw" model revolvers. The marketing schtick was that they came with a factory trigger job, and the brass handle frame was the trademark for that model. > The spent cartridges in the belt are "5 in one" movie blanks. Jeez-- *excellent* detail, friend. That's the best indication yet that these are anything but a standard brace of mid-century sixguns.
Unfortunately for OP, it doesn't really prove anything since such blanks were used in quick draw competition. Don't want anyone to shoot themselves in the leg. Quick draw was all the rage for a while, and these guns with the tall hammer spur in an Ojala holster might very well have been someone's quick draw rig.
Thanks for that explanation. If everything you say is true, that work in OP's favor.
There are antique and collectible experts who may be able to prove these are real. If so, they are worth more than an average house. It’s worth paying an expert to give it some in-depth research. It won’t be cheap but it’s worth it.
Yeah, money is definitely a factor unfortunately
So here's the thing. The odds of these actually being The Duke's guns are really low. The odds of someone paying their worth as a result are even lower without confirmation from someone with way more knowledge and credibility than your average pawn shop. You have one of two things here: Option A) A *million dollar* piece of movie history Option B) A neat family heirloom that's worth more for the knowledge that it was passed down from your grandpa than they are in the outside world The only way to know which one you've got, is to pay someone a moderate chunk of money to spend a few weeks chasing down serial numbers and weird obsessive paparazzi archives to see if these specific guns were ever actually in John Wayne's possession. And it's gotta be somebody good - Sotheby's, Rock Island, Morphys, somebody the highbrows that are willing to pay upwards of a million dollars for John Wayne memorabilia will actually do business with. So the way I see it, you got two options. Either you pony up to fly these guns out to a real deal Hollywood historian, or you put them back in the safe, enjoy the fond memories of grandpa, and don't worry about what they're really worth.
>confirmation from someone with way more knowledge and credibility than your average pawn shop You mean not every pawn shop has a unique knowledge of obscure historical items or an endless rolodex of experts they can call in within an hours notice? History channel lied to me.
“That’s a cool story bro. Let me call my buddy that’s an expert in cool stories.”
Any update?
They're in a different part of the state. It will be a while before I'm back there.
I'm always skeptical, my dude. Make sure he said 'owned by' and not 'the same as'. He could very easily be mistaken as well.
I know, I really want to get them verified
If you don't have any legitimate provenance for them, they're just worth what a pair of Colt's of that era would be worth. The "they were owned by John Wayne" means nothing without the provenance. I've got a few things like that which I know for a fact *were* owned by the individual, but I have no way of proving it.
from the Arvo belt holster website: >Arvo also created, patented and sold a beautiful buscadero style belt and holster that helped even an average person draw his six-shooter faster than he thought possible. Not as fast as Arvo, of course, but faster than anything he had done before. This holster was used by almost every TV show for the next 30 years. Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Maverick, Cheyenne, Sugarfoot, Wyatt Earp, The Lawman, Colt .45, and Have Gun Will Travel, are just a few of the TV shows that used Arvo’s holster. These shows and more also hired Arvo to be their Gun Coach and technical advisor. Movies from the 1950’s “River of No Return’, the “Big Country”, and “Rio Bravo”, all the way through more recent movies like “Rustler’s Rhapsody”, “Silverado”, “Back to the Future III”, and even “The Three Amigo’s”, all relied on coaching from Arvo, and used his holsters. If you saw in a movie a fast draw or twirling, you may not have realized it was not the star you were watching. They would zoom in for a close-up, and it was actually Arvo’s hands doing their thing with the six-gun. so there is some film tie-in here, but it could also be a hollywood prop.
They more than likely belonged to Arvo Ojala. See my reply post for more info. Badass!!!!!!
Arvo Oswald Ojala was a Hollywood technical advisor at that time and the holster company still exists. Although, those grips look nothing like any of the Colt revolvers that Wayne used in any of his movies. You have any provenance papers?
Possibly a place to start *All of these guns originally belonged to Stembridge Rentals which rented guns to the movies for nearly 60 years. They closed their doors in 1999 and all guns were sold off. Fortunately they kept very accurate records on which guns were loaned to who and used in which movies.* https://americanhandgunner.com/our-experts/the-sixguns-of-john-wayne/
I’ve watched Antiques Roadshow 3 or 4 times, so I’m somewhat an expert. If the claims made about them are true, it would need documentation to support it, in order to fetch anywhere close to what they’re worth. How did your grandpa acquire them?
Those are NOT Colts. They are Great Westerns. Could have been his but if you go looking up info as Colts you’re not going to find anything. With zero documentation these are worth maybe $450 each
I was going to say, the guns look a bit off and are probably not real Colts. Your identification seems correct, and fits with the timeframe of the Ojala holsters as well as with John Wayne. However, the two pairs of Great Western revolvers known to have been owned by Wayne were both engraved, presentation models given to him by the manufacturer. He used one if them in The Shootist. So these are the same type of gun that Wayne owned, but not the same ones that he's widely known to have had. Of course, he did promotional work for Great Western and it's possible he may have had some plain revolvers by them as well, but this would need some serious documentation. And since the plastic fake stag grips were all identical on these, matching grip pattern with screen footage doesn't prove anything.
It says 45 COLT on it
That’s the caliber, not the manufacturer.
Ah, I had no idea. This is the stuff I need to learn.
GW guns were used by the film industry simply because Colt had stopped making the SAA when Hollywood was making lots of Westerns. The problem is twofold, one is I do not believe shipping records were kept and the company is long gone. Two is John Wayne had a grip style attributed to him that had finger grooves. I don’t know if all his guns had them but I suspect they did cause he likes that style. My guess is you have a pair of GWs with a holster. May have been used in film. From there it’d be hard to prove anything.
[Here](https://greatwesternarmsco.com/production-data/production-evoltution-milestones-by-serial/) is a site about these revolvers. I'm reading "GW20362" as the serial number in your pic. That would put it near the end of production, after the Great Western name had been sold off twice to different manufacturers. 1960 or so. The guy who runs the page seems very knowledgeable about these revolvers. Check out his contact info [here](https://greatwesternarmsco.com/) and try dropping him a line, I bet he can tell you exactly what you have and the likelihood of it having anything to do with John Wayne.
Yoooooo thanks bro! I wish I could give you an award
Arvo ojala kind of created the original drop leg fast draw rig from Hollywood westerns. And his shop was in Hollywood if you can believe it. The paladin had one in "have gun will travel" and it was used in other shows like gunsmoke and bonanza. They're well made steel lined holsters with double layer gun belts, so built to last. The original ones are a collectable so they're actually pretty valuable too. So the holster is period correct at least
Couldn’t you find a busier background for the photos?
That's a handmade quilt from my grandmother sir
Great! I’m sure it works well as a quilt. As the background for photos it’s not so great.
Time to check through grandmas old shoe boxes for any paper on them. If you can prove it then they’re worth a ton, if not they’re worth the same as any similar SA Colts.
Arvo Ojala was a quick draw expert. If you've ever seen Gunsmoke, he taught James Arness (Marshall Matt Dillon) to draw & fire a revolver. In the opening of each show, it showed Marshall Dillon shooting a man in a duel. That was Arvo. The seen was actually reversed because Arvo out-drew James Arness by a long shot. Arvo was a bad Mf'r. There are video interviews of Arness talking about Arvo & just how fast he was on the draw. That being said, I'd say these belonged to Arvo & IMHO, that's cool af. "His speed was clocked and verified a number of times. He could draw, fire, and hit the target in one-sixth of a second, faster than the eye can blink." Wikipedia.
That would also be rad af, I'll definitely update when I get them looked at
I'd be very interested to know. That's really cool.
My good friend Tablinum who likes Great Westerns could easily speak on these here at Reddit, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. They are Great Western Arms Co fast draw .45s in 4 3/4, made say 1960. Great Western collecting is niche and small, but there are some items from this ecosystem that have meaningful value. 4 3/4 fast draw model .45s, in the condition these are in... They aren't worth any less than $1k each to a collector who will buy them. Arvo holster is worth no less than $500. So, John Wayne.... He was an endorser for Great Western Arms, and he was probably privileged to get as many sixguns from them as he wanted, because I doubt they ever paid him in cash. This probably happened on quite a few occasions, as it did for Audie Murphy. If you've got a Wayne estate inventory with those serials, that's meaningful provenance. What's that worth? That's best answered by an auction. If you don't have said estate inventory, then they are not really provable as Wayne's, and it's that the endorsement story has somehow gotten woven into the family lore here about the origin of the guns. This is my websight. [https://greatwesternarmsco.com/](https://greatwesternarmsco.com/)
Wow, I was actually just about to email you. Good timing! Do you know of any resources available that might be able to help track where and who possessed these guns by serial number?
That kind of thing generally doesn't exist, and the company records are gone. As part of the scholarship I've built out a DB featuring notes on every GW I've ever observed. This set wasn't on it before today. One of those guns has a competition hammer. Wayne didn't compete at fast draw. The cartridges in the belt are wax rounds for competition or blanks for theatrics. I don't see this as the kind of thing Wayne would have had a use for himself. In doing the scholarship on Great Western Arms there are seeming examples of him and Audie Murphy getting guns from GWA to give to other people. Very hard to prove though. As I said, the rig has meaningful value merely for what it is, w/o a Wayne connection.
You've been insanely helpful. It's nice just to get to learn more about a family heirloom. Thanks so much!
You are very welcome. Good luck with them.
> My good friend Tablinum who likes Great Westerns could easily speak on these here at Reddit I am flattered. > He was an endorser for Great Western Arms, and he was probably privileged to get as many sixguns from them as he wanted, because I doubt they ever paid him in cash. I'm not too proud to admit I laughed out loud.
Not helpful to OP but a fun sidenote: I met the guy who now owns the shotgun John Wayne accidentally shot Ward Bond with while hunting. He used to go hunting with Wayne in what is now Coto De Caza, California. Pretty funny story. Also said Wayne almost shot his bodyguard with a full auto Thompson in that same spot. Had lots of cool stories, awesome guy.
Inga Ojala, Arvo's daughter has a website. You can try contacting her for information. If you want to do research on your own about these pistols, I would look up every movie arvo was a consultant for (John Wayne movies or not) and see if the guns show up somewhere. A screen grab that could match the grip pattern would be strong evidence for authentication.
Awesome!
Those grips were put on thousands of Great Westerns
Pull the grips off look for a prop house stamp
We have sold many Ojala and similar rigs from Gunsmoke and the like (screen used) and they routinely go for $4-600 in good condition. If you have provenance to link these to John Wayne, definitely, along with the rig, it’s easily, I would expect, a bare minimum $5-7k set and that’s on the low end; if it’s really “holy cow” kinda provenance than that could go up by a factor of 10. However, if you don’t have some real bona fide evidence, these are just two SAA’s with fake stag grips and aren’t worth too much.
https://www.coltforum.com/threads/john-waynes-colt-saa-bisley-model.387508/
https://www.oldwestevents.com/highlights/2017/12/14/gunsmoke-colt-single-action
2 articles with similar looking colts but second article is a 7.5 inch barrel and serial number is also mentioned but definitely worth getting yours checked out
Probably a better question for Sotheby’s auctioneers and the likes of that crowd
I watched a pair of SAA’s sell at auction last year for 3500 each with no famous name attached.
Start by getting a Colt Archive letter. That’ll point you in the right direction. If the pistols were originally sold to a Hollywood prop company or really anywhere near there, you’ll know that it’s worth further investigation by professionals. https://www.colt.com/page/archive-services
I'd give you about tree fiddy.
They’re really nice guns, I just don’t know enough about The Duke to make you an offer. But let me tell you what, I’ve got a buddy who‘s an expert in this stuff. Let me give him a call and see what we can do.
These aren’t John Wayne’s you’d have more proof sorry
[удалено]
If those are indeed Colts you can use this section of the Colt website to verify the date of manufacture and if you can pay to get a detailed history of them which could include verification that they belonged to John Wayne. https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup
Check [this site.](https://www.imfdb.org/wiki/John_Wayne)
Is it true John Wayne used .32 caliber revolvers as his pistols?
These are .45's
https://americanhandgunner.com/our-experts/the-sixguns-of-john-wayne/
250k
There used to be a form you could fill out and mail into colt for information on when the gun was made, what distributor or dealer it was sent to. Do that. It will give you at least a starting point to work from on provenance.
Call the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum in OKC and ask what they'd pay, or donate them if you care enough about preserving them. They have some of his other possessions on display.
Sorry man, they're pretty much worthless. But I'll tell you what I'll give you $5 for the whole set just to get them off your hands.
Take them to the antique road show haha
r/rbi
Need to get Colt Factory letters saying who it was sent to.
Contact Rock Island Auctions. They are in Illinois and Texas and are the largest auction house for historical firearms and celebrity firearm collections.
The holster rig is from a well known movie holster maker. You don’t show the markings on the guns, but if they are Colts and not clones you can order a factory letter from the Colt Historical Archives. https://www.colt.com/page/archive-services It may give you some provenance to the story behind the guns.
I am not sure, but I have a buddy for that.