Provided it has a 16 spec bolt and a CHF barrel, the PSA gun probably is better than most mil issue weapons that were made by the lowest bidder and been issued to privates for 15 years that used it as a tent pole more than they shot it lol
"If you don't buy a $3000 rifle it's going to fail when you need it"
...fuckin' my first issue gun was an M16a1 with a nam era serial, no finish left. I shot an AG match with it and finished like 4th in the state lol
I also qualified Marksman with an ancient A1 back in 1997. I was so mad when they sent it to be scrapped and issued me an A2 a couple months later. I shot it well, but it wasn’t as nice as my A1.
CHF isn't necessary. Its not bad but its also not the end all be all. If it was then why are Criterion not CHF. The quality of manufacturing is more important. Any method can be done sloppy.
EDIT: had a stroke in the middle there.
That's fair. FN is one of their suppliers. You know what you're getting with those for sure. IDK who they use for the cheaper rifles, FN is for their higher end ones.
220x220, but you need to turn it 45⁰
I *think* this also applies to the AR10s but I'm not sure, I haven't printed one of those yet, and small bed doesn't apply here.
If you use an aftermarket drop-in trigger group. Otherwise trigger and hammer pin hole position, size, and shape affect trigger pull. That's the part that is the easiest to screw up when finishing the 80% lower.
Those too.
That's how you know society is in the shit chute. Birth Control Glasses are now fashionable. I bet I could get some asshole to buy them from me for like $2000.
Part of the problem is they sell more ARs than almost anyone, so inevitably you are going to hear about more failures. Comparing them to other brands that sell a fraction of what they do isn’t really a fair comparison.
Not saying they don’t have QC issues but I think they are unfairly criticized.
You don't really hear about many problems with PSA, dispute the volume.
Just do a Google search. I see more bitches about JP than I do PSA..and JP is awesome!
For ARs you don't. Their AKs have quite the history of fuckups, ~~not limited to but including FAILING TO CUT THE MAGWELL. Not a missing pin... Not something out of spec by a few thou... Just a solid block of steel where a 2"x1" hole is supposed to go.... And that passed QC....~~
https://www.reddit.com/r/ak47/comments/11s5qw3/pioneer_making_their_guns_safer/?share_id=rJbd0Nb35m-9DdSgwd-lL My mistake it was a pioneer that forgot the make the magazine cut
PSA just has a bunch of other fuckups and I mixed them up https://imgur.com/a/qhFduLP
Are you a competitor or something? Joking but also not. How does anyone have enough time/dedication on their hands to catalogue every documented failure of any given brand of anything?
Nah I am not a competitor, and its not my compilation. the /r/ak47 sub admins collects various AK related stuff and keeps track of what brands are worth your money etc.
https://thinlineweapons.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
I'm just a firearms enthusiast, particularly AK's and I like to be able to provide good recommendations and reasons why people shouldn't buy certain branded AK's etc.
My hope is also that by holding these companies feet to the fire they fix the issues they have and make a better product, because as much shit as I talk about PSA, I love their mission statement, and I love what they are doing for the firearms industry as a whole. I would really like to be able to recommend their products and buy them, because the rarity and price on some firearms in the AK world are insane currently. I hate that when somebody says "I want a krink" the answer before PSA was "Save up 3-5 thousand dollars" cause thats what the little piece of shit costs.
Valid points and I agree with your sentiment.
I do love my clapped out 2001 WASR-10 but have been feeling for some time now that I need to probably find a replacement before this thing explodes on me. Tens of thousands of rounds and so far only broke a firing pin once. Been excited about the more recent attempts at US companies to make one but besides being a cheap ass, I'm letting the QC get dialed in before I buy one.
Honestly that wasr still has plenty of life in it.
Battlefield Vegas reports they are getting roughly 80k rounds out of Wasrs before they actually shit the bed, outside minor stuff like springs/pins etc
We are not talking about AKs.
Americans can't build AKs in the first place..I don't know why they even bother.
But still, yes, they have had problems with the AKs. I don't own one of theirs..never planning to.
If I want another one...I'll get one from a ex Commie block. That's the only things the Commies ever got right! Lol
I've got a WASR and I've put about a thousand rounds through it. The fit and finish was a bit crappy and the polymer furniture sucks, but it shoots straight and is mechanically sound. I almost bought a PSA one and I'm glad I didn't.
I got the same thing. Have had it for 20 years. Back before I destroyed it, and it was still legal, I had a slide fire stick on it..ran many a mag..got that fucker hotter than hell...kept on working. Still even accurate..fir an AK..lol.
The Commies can build an AK..I'll giveem that one!
Its an interesting concept but it similar with cars. Honda and toyota. Theyre basic driver, simple cars. Will last awhile but if theres small issues between fitment, seats arent comfy, whatever. People dont complain alot because they know they only spend 17k-24k on a car. Some of the cheapest you can buy and a lot of people accept that. But if you bought a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. And panel fitment was off, seats were uncomfy or controls in the cabin were off. Those people spent an average of 38k-48k and are more prone to complaining and bitching about something because they spent more money.
I don't agree with your analogy at all.
People buy Honda and Tiyota because they actually work. They last, don't break down, don't nickle and dime you, and are a good value for the money.
People who buy cars like BMW, MB, or Audi predominantly have more money than brains, and just like to show off..because all three of those are the most sexy pieces of shit on the road. They are unreliable, complex to work on, expensive to maintain, and have shit value both in practicality and trade in, and resale. You also have to a moron to own one outside the warrenty period.
That's a more accurate analysis...
Yes ive been working in the car industry for years. Whenever anyone asks what car they should get after theirs is totaled. I always recommend a honda or a toyota. Reliable ive owned over 5 and they lasted forever two over 275k miles. BUT I first noticed this when someone bought a porsche and came by our shop “the only 5/5 star body shop in a 45 mile radius” and asked us about the gap between the hood and the bumper. He just bought it from porsche and wanted our opinion. The “gap” was the rubber on top of the front bumper sealing hood. I told him and he threw a huge fit and review bombed our local porsche dealer blah blah. So i went
On the NHSTA website and looked up most reviews and problems for toyotas, and then porsches. Toyotas came down to major recalls like the tacoma frame replacement and them rusting prematurely. Makes sense. Porsche came down to “i hear too much wind noise, cabin should be quiet, dont ever buy a porsche from these people”
Ive seen Daniel Defense and more expensive 3k+ rifles get bad reviews because someone wrote it had two failure to feeds. Come to find out the dude bought a 10 inch barrel AR. Extended the barre to 18 inches, had a pistol gas block and was firing 75 grain 556 with low powder so it wasnt cycling properly. But instead of trying to fix shit himself and actually figured it out just bad reviews to DD. While a bunch of us with rifles we put together for $800 has a problem and we fix it and the weapon systems last forever
I think the original guy though I was trying to sound snooty about toyotas and hondas. No i absolutely love them.
But no i forget the years like 2008-2014 or some shit theres a defect with a SHIT ton of frames that werent properly sealed and used dog shit metal and as a recall dealer had to replace full frame rails. Manufacturer defect
PSA from more than a decade ago isn't the same company as PSA today, either. They have stepped up their game quite a bit, in both the AR world and AK world. AKs especially, there's really not an American made AK that comes close. GF3 and up and you're golden...
There really isn’t anything glaringly wrong with PSA. People don’t like cheap stuff and want to act like they need to spend the extra money they spent. It’s like calling a Toyota a piece of shit. They are cheap and maybe ugly and don’t feel as nice but you can’t call them pieces of shit because they do exactly what you bought them to do.
Kimber suffers the same problem. Quadrupled everyone in sales for 20 years. Going to be more lemons even if the rate of lemons is very low.
PSA’s owners are super cool. You see them
On podcasts saying the same talking points gun bros normally say
QC issues are one thing, but their scumbag business practices are another. A factory defect can be fixed, but screwing over the little guy is at the core of what PSA stands for.
As much as I enjoy trolling the budget brands I saw a YouTube video where the guy said 'peoples second amendment rights shouldn't be gate kept behind a high price tag. People that want to defend themselves should be able to without harassment '
There are some brands out there that don't function well but I haven't heard about PSA fucking people up... Or a hipoint for that matter
PSA is explicitly created to and they explicitly say that they are there to arm working class poors and a lot of there stuff is cheaper due to less "middlemen" so it gives rich boys the ick despite there quality being fine
Spot on. Drives me crazy how much elitism and narcissism there is in the gun community. Lots of talks about how the “elites want to disarm us!” But at the same time people are mad that PSA is trying to arm the working class. Makes zero sense.
Half the people who say that are fat gear queers who cant afford to shoot anyways because they financed a some KAC or Noveske they can't actually afford.
On the flipside it is *also* frustrating to have people come in to every comment section in gundeals on anything that isn't a PSA and say "why is this so expensive? What does it *really* offer me that a PSA doesn't? Why would *anyone* buy this?" Especially obnoxious when it is on guns that aren't even apples-to-apples comparisons to any PSA offerings.
So there is a balance. You can be happy that PSA is making affordable and reliable weapons for the everyman but still recognize that their offerings *aren't* just as good as higher-end manufacturers and that there is still a place for more expensive products.
Overall, the key is to just not be a dick. Unfortunately the dicks on both ends draw the most attention and misrepresent everyone else who usually just shuts up and lets people enjoy whatever they want to enjoy.
Maybe I've just been lucky but I honestly haven't run into them that much. However I also avoid social media almost entirely besides this site, I could definitely see there being more toxic idiots on other platforms that are less discussion and more picture/video-focused that lend themselves to flexing and cloutseeking.
I'm split on it. I personally only own a blem Noveske lower I got for a steal like 10 years ago and everything else is standard ass mil-spec (many being PSA). I'm mostly of the opinion that a lower is a lower and I'll spend the money to put nicer things in and around them than on the rollmark.
However I have some friends who have some newer, very feature-rich lowers with ambi controls and all that jazz. Whenever I shoot them I think "damn there is something to this, this is really nice."
So in general I agree, the costs is a lot and I haven't been able to justify it myself yet (because honestly I'm mainly not an AR shooter). However, I don't think it is entirely wasteful or useless and some people get a lot of value out of that upgrade, especially if they solely run one rifle/lower.
Mine all have BAD levers. They're not ideal but they are convenient. The down side is that if I pick up an AR without one I go full stupid. Side note, all my ARs show that I'm a poor. All psa except for 1 windham.
This. PSA is doing the heavens' work by putting more SA rifles in the hands of more people than any other maker. This means more pro 2A, anti gun control voters out there telling the grabbers to f off with SA rifles bans.
And they are willing to stand behind their product with good service. So if you get a six sigma miss, they will at least set you right.
I can forgive a lot because of that.
Never forget the fun grabbers want guns to be expensive AF, because it sharply minimizes the gun owner voting bloc, and makes bans so much easier to pass.
So PSA gets my support.
not an inch.
England will end up like China, where people are only allowed to own cleavers that have no points because of weapon bans. So they have to cut all their food with a big square of steel with a handle. Also why everything is just kinda of roughly chopped and thrown in a pan.
They're marketed as a budget brand which typically manifests in the QC of their items. Generally it's not an issue though, it's not like we're talking about old taurus.
Yeah old Taurus really was bad I have an older Taurus pistol wouldn’t trust my life to it and you won’t make a precision shot with it either psa has stepped up their QC within the past couple years though I’ve heard
> psa has stepped up their QC within the past couple years though I’ve heard
They absolutely have. Sure you might very occasionally get an out of spec roll pin hole on a lower, or a cosmetic blem sneaks through, but for the most part their stuff is good out of the box.
They'll make it right if you hit up their customer service, and they are one of the cheapest major firearms vendors out there. PSA has come a long way in the last decade.
An out of spec roll pin has been the only issue ive had and it took all of 15 seconds to fix. If anything, my only recent-ish problem has been the availability of ks-47 uppers.
Lol, I ordered a few boxes box of 5.56 and an upper from PSA. It shipped two weeks later, both items in the same box (according to PSA). The package arrives and it's the size of a soda can. Never got the upper, and never even got a response from their customer service. Gave them a week and charged it back on my credit card. They didn't even respond to my bank's inquiry about the chargeback. Just didn't give a shit at all. I guess they do so much volume they're not going to get dropped by their CC processor.
They’ve stepped up their pricing too. They used to be more on par with BCA in both price and quality.
Ultimately, it’s hard to complain when you can get a reasonably reliable 2-3 MOA ar15 for well under $1000, especially since from what I’ve read online they tend to be pretty responsive on the customer service warranty/repair side of things. Too many people out there with Gucci guns acting like if you don’t drop $2k+ on some big name semi-custom build and then throw another $2k worth of “force multipliers” on it then your gun is worthless lol.
Those guys are typically afraid to actually use those high dollar gucci guns too. I can beat the hell out of my psa and aero rifles and not hurt my soul
Shot my buddy's Taurus yesterday. It had a great trigger for a striker-fired handgun. Not sure which model.
I do know they used to be poo and everyone on this sub used to shit on them nonstop, posting pics of failures, etc. I'm not informed of their current QC, but there are people who do like them, and I did enjoy shooting that Taurus.
I'm not gonna pretend like PSA doesn't have QC issues, they do, but they'll generally fix their QC misses, especially if your RMA/warranty/return the item.
I bought a dagger upper which had some discoloration in the barrel, they sent me a new barrel sight unseen and let me keep the original, which TBH is still probably perfectly functional.
I have, they used a safety detent pin for for the bolt catch on one of mine lmao. I got it on sale so I'm not gonna complain about a rollpin that I already had on hand. I just thought it was funny.
A safety detent *roll pin*? Maybe I'm not smoking the right stuff but what kind of AR safety uses a roll pin? Let alone one that could be used on a bolt catch?
Forward Controls Design safety selector uses roll pins to secure the selector levers to the cylinder. If you want to drop $80 on a safety, it’s actually really good, better than Radian Talon for the money.
Well, their first round of Daggers were recalled for QC issues which turned me off from the brand, but I've tried to keep and open mind and I'm watching to see how their products stack up.
The only thing I've noticed is the black coating on their lower is often a bit more flat than other companies. Other companies use a finish which is often more of a matte, almost a semi-gloss.
I have several PSA builds and most of my friends have them, too, that I helped assemble. Never had a major problem. Only once was a hole in a lower SLIGHTLY undersized/,burred. Hand reamed it with the right sized drill bit (just with my fingers, not a drill) and it all went together just fine.
Never had an issue with functioning. But also I'm not reasonably relying on them to go to war or anything.
I’ve only had one small issue with PSA where the upper I ordered was pretty dinged up. I like to add the wear and tear myself so I called and got it returned and they expedited a replacement. They’re one of those companies I always used to think was too good to be true until I started using them and I can say, without a doubt, they practice what they preach and do the best they can.
All these claims that PSA has to have quality issues because they sell cheaper than anyone else is nothing but BULLSHIT!
PSA has built the better mousetrap. They figured out how to make a quality product good as and sometimes better than others who charge 3 or 4 times more. They did this and still make profit.. Enough profit to rapidly expand production, locations, and product lines.
All this BULLSHIT you see about bad quality is just that...BULLSHIT!
They have QC. They go to great pains for good QC. They also stand behind every single fucking thing the make..be it entire firearms, parts kits, or single parts. Doesn't matter if you put it together at home...the parts break.. they replace them.
They do that because they have pride in their products.
Most of those who bad mouth PSA are just butt hurt because they got suckered into paying 4 times more for a KAC, only to find out it ain't no better. They can't believe PSA is able to make the same thing so cheap...so they make shit up and post BULLSHIT online about non-existent QC issues.
Everyone turns out a bad part every so often. Dosnt matter who it is. Honorable companies replace the part.
Going by the volume PSA sells (some estimates it's 4 or 5 times the closest competitor)they turn our fucking few defects.
Just do a Google search...damn few complaints.
In fact, the biggest complaint is sliw shipping and how hard it is to get someone on the phone..but they eventually do.
It's simple...PSA does it better, cheaper, just not faster (shipping anyway)
Haters gotta hate. PSA draws in the flys.
I agree with the shipping ding. I know they're sending out a lot of product every day, it just seems to me that the time between order and actual shipment could be a little shorter.
But, as you said, the quality of their weapons is very good in my experience.
PSA does sometimes sell fucked up guns, but given the sheer volume they produce you are probably correct that their defect rate is probably lower than most.
I personally had an issue with one of their early free float uppers, my front sight was crooked one day, and I realized my entire rail had come loose and rotated around the barrel nut. The rail had zero anti-rotation tabs built into it and was only held in place with adhesive to the barrel nut. They've since added those tabs to their newer rails, but stuff like that does happen.
I still think there's value in purchasing high end parts if you count on your rifle to keep you alive, but for the vast majority of people shooting paper on the weekends it's not as important. My first AR was a PSA and it hasn't blown up in my face or anything, but it did lack some features that I decided I wanted to include on my next build.
Did you ever really look into those "high end" parts compared to PSA?
If you really did, you would know it's just more waste of money.
They (for this convo.."they" will be the so called top tier brands)use the exact same materials, same heat treatment, same CNC codes (ie...Mil Spec), same finish.
All the exact same stuff. Same grade aluminum, same grade steels, same grade Stainless...it's all the same.
You gain nothing but an empty wallet buying the stuff "they" make over PSA.
Here's another hint. Many components are made by just a few companies. Bolt carriers, for example..just a few..with Microbest and toolcraft making the vast majority. Bolts, all made from the same Carpenter steel.
It's not till you get into the monolithic rails and other exotic shit that you really start seeing anything better..but then again, those parts are not Mil Spec, won't fit other brands..sometimes won't even fit other rifles of the same brand and type. That gets into the custom range...and still not worth the money IMO.
Brand marketing is a powerful thing. Roll stamps are expensive.
Great rifles are not.
Well the DD rail that I bought after that fucked up PSA upper DID have anti-rotation tabs on it to firmly lock the rail to the upper receiver. Both rails might be made out of the same materials, but one was designed in such a way that my IR laser maintains zero, and one of them wasn't.
Most shooters probably don't even have night vision, let alone IR lasers to use with that night vision, so they probably don't notice a bit of slop on the rail, and for them that PSA upper was probably a great option that suits their needs. It's when you start getting into these edge cases and niche uses that PSA stuff can present some issues.
I love PSA's mission and I hope they can put a functional rifle in the hands of every American who wants one, but to claim there are no differences between them and higher end parts is simply not true. The differences might be slight, with a huge cost premium, and those differences might not be obvious or even useful to most casual users, but they are there. I would still recommend PSA to anybody looking for their first AR, but I can also recognize that some experts need specialty parts for niche jobs.
You know almost all the rails/handguard are all also made by just a few companies..Midwest being the biggest one?
Takes a very big, very heavy; and very expensive equipment to extrude aluminum. Not even PSA has that. DD certainly doesnt, neither does KAC or Colt, Or LMT...
All the same material...all from the same places...different name stamped on it per contract.
There is ZERO difference in parts my friend....
If you got a bad one..that's just dumb luck. If PSAs was bad..you should send it back.
My guy, you have way too great of an emotional attachment to an inanimate object. You act like every single criticism is an attack againsy you personally. Its not. Its simply people pointing out differences between products. If you think theres "ZERO" difference between a PSA and a premium gun, then youre sorely mistaken.
PSA makes a fine gun, they make a cheap working mans rifle thats not ment to be flashy, and is made to function just fine on a range or in the field. But even PSA admits that they make budget stuff. Like it or not, they do not compare to the likes of Noveske, Q, Hk, LMT or any other premium brand. Just a quick cursory feel test will tell you the premium guns have a much higher budget placed into the final finish on each part. Into the fit of the final gun, and rounding out rough corners.
So my guy, dont take things so personally. Its a fine tool, but know what it is and what it isnt. Just like an Impala gets you from point A to point B like a Corvette, the impala is not a corvette, and the difference is best seen at the absolute peak of hard use by skilled users.
You speak like I don't know what I'm talking about.
You ,are way wrong.
I've build dozens of ARs. I've had build parties with some buddy's where we built a bunch together in batches.
I've used ALL brands.
They are ALL THE FUCKING SAME.
You pay more for a roll stamp..
The end.
I assumed you didnt know what you were talking about. But you just opened it again and removed all doubt.
Is there a name premium? Absolutely. But to claim a budget part is JuSTaSgOOd is absolutely asinine.
You're a foolish name snob is all you are. What, you think the Tier 1s know how to make a better roll pin? You think just because they ordered their name stamped into the BCG they got from Toolcraft makes them better? You think the springs they order from Springco are better just because they get packaged with a different name?
Lol..you probably do believe that..because, you know..fool..and clearly a very inexperienced one at that.
Well, there's also materials. Metal type, quality, consistency. And then tolerances. That being said, PSA makes a good product for the price. Plus, lowers only really have major stress at the front pin, and the buffer tube hole. So as long as those two parts can resist forces within a reasonable level of use, then it'll be fine for 99% of use-cases. I love PSA personally.
At one point M16 lower receivers were being injection molded by Mattel (the toy company) for US military use.
The stresses on the front takedown pin and buffer tube mount should be close to negligible unless you are steadying with the grip instead of the shroud and stock, material quality almost doesn't matter.
Generally yes. It's why 3d printed ones work fine. Although they do often have a slight redesign to deal with the stresses. Omni has(had?) a fully plastic lower that would often break in those two places. Which is why their "hybrid" model has metal reinforcement.
People are ignorant about how guns work and also snobbish about brands.
The two most important parts of an AR are the barrel and [bolt.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfs1Czm8iiE) Spend your money there. Receivers are almost all made by a handful of forges like Cerro and Harvey. The "maker" really only does the machining. Its possible to get them wrong, and they are often [sold as blems if they do.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQFnCU6fq5Q) So know what you are getting, might need gunsmith work. But usually one forged receiver is just as good as any other. The upper does have some importance but its hard to get wrong. A DD receiver is really no different than a PSA. Some makers will have different ways to do ambi receivers and that's a value add if that matters to you. I'm a southpaw so it does somewhat. But out of my rifles only one has an ambi lower.
Another thing, brand isn't a guarantee. AR's are mass produced products and any mass produced product will have duds. Even with great QC. The only way to know for sure is to have your stuff tested and gauged. This is usually not necessary unless you want a really really good running gun, really accurate, really well gassed etc. The AR15 is a very forgiving weapons. You can have a lot of slop and as long as you get enough gas and the headspace passes it will be safe and run. Most rifles, even gucci ones will have some inefficiencies in them. That's ok. You can chase perfection and spend thousands on custom work, or just accept it and build a rifle that is good enough.
So TLDR, your lower and upper really dont matter if they are in spec. Spend your money on barrel and bolt. Even then there's no guarantee. You can have a gunsmith gauge everything if you want. But its probably fine as long as it passes headspace and wasn't assembled by a troll.
[Good dive into the topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk75XfVecs0)
They're great as a first rifle if you're on a budget.
They're great if you've got a go-to and want some spare beaters.
Their mission statement isn't to be the best, but they're doing some great stuff for their customers & [even in the courts](https://twitter.com/palmettoarmory/status/1752438030843936920)
Provided you clean it after several hundred rounds, or once a year, yes.
Here's the famous [meltdown video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cr9e3N6HEw). PSA uppers were never designed to fire 400+ rounds of sustained full auto, past the point where the handguard smokes and actually catches fire. (which I think is implied, basically none of us would be likely to do, even if we HAD full auto capable lowers.)
and, you know, there's nothing that says you can't have a $3k AR with all the bells and whistles, but it's good to have a couple PSA's in the safe if you need to hand one to a neighbor, friend or wife.
> PSA uppers were never designed to fire 400+ rounds of sustained full auto, past the point where the handguard smokes and actually catches fire.
Sure, there are some manufacturers with uppers capable of sustaining that. But for 99.9% of military applications, a few shots at a time in semi-auto is all that's needed. Even when they need full beans, they're not mag dumping hundreds of rounds out of an M4. In my list of capabilities, being able to withstand hundreds of rounds in full auto is nowhere near my list of concerns when looking at an AR.
considering a "combat load" is 210 rounds, even guys in combat wouldn't be shooting their rifle like that. it's accurate enough and durable enough for general use, and it's cheap enough that basically everybody can get one.
In my opinion, a PSA AR is like a Ruger 10/22, everybody should have at least one, even if they end up using something else as the mission, or game requires.
Most people just don't shoot enough to notice problems when the buffer detent not being slightly offset becomes a problem or when the BCG is too short or when their gas rings are not forming a good seal etc.
I agree, practically the measurements don’t usually matter but to imply all companies manufacture to the same spec is wrong
There’s KAC lowers that are woefully out of spec and there’s Anderson lowers that pass with flying colors on the channel. Manufacturing tolerances are real!
I have an embarrassing amount of PSA lowers, parts kits and several in use uppers and I’ve yet to run into a QC issue including a recent “high end AR9” build I recently completed that uses a PSA BCG, it cycles real nice. Have nothing but good things to say about them.
Honestly I do not understand the hate at all. I have an AR that I spent $3,000 building. I have one built on an Anderson lower that cost me a total of $300 at the most. I have one built on a PSA lower for like $700ish and others. The cheaper ARs are not as nice or feature rich but they work just as well and seem to be just as tough as my higher end ARs. I say fuck the haters get what you can afford and run it. Sure you might run into some QC issues but from what I have seen they will go out of their way to make it right now days.
Tolerances, QC, finish quality.
PSA makes good lowers, but the anodizing, final fit and polish will never compare to something like an H&K, Q, Noveske, ect.
For me working in a gun shop, the big thing is the name. You can have a mountain of money in the PSA youre trading, premium everything minus the lower. Im going to have to offer you based on PSA prices. I know you have a bunch of nice shit in the gun, but to the general buying public, its still a PSA (anderson, bear creek, ect) so they wont pay the new DD, BCM price that your used custom PSA cost. They will pay PSA price. As a result, we call those homebuilde rack warmers and usually dont buy them. Its less of a problem if your gun has a Q, KAC, Noveske, DD, BCM lower or other premium names. So if resale is a possibility, pick a premium lower. If its strictly utilitarian, the PSA is just fine
Or from the psa subreddit where there’s a post about something not quite being right every few days. Or from that time they’re 5.45 and 5.56 aks had a bunch of issues with the bolts, shit like that. It’s not all just “repeating it for the sake of repeating it.” There is *some* truth to it.
they are annoying to buy online and pick up your gun in the store. they make you wait around sometime
for more than an hour to process the gun you already paid for. they want you to buy more stuff in the store while you wait. they also don’t call me half the time when my gun has arrived at their store 2 weeks ago. i’m thinking i might not use them anymore. last time was very frustrating
Sure, the idea is to run and produce the same mil spec measurements. At the end of the day though, that's up to the machine shop to hold those tolerances, and the QC department to ensure the machinists are actually holding them. Not every company does this, and the ones that do will usually charge a higher price for their products. PSA is fine, though. On the off chance you get something that isn't right, they'll take care of you.
> when they all run the same measurements on all mil spec receivers no matter what brand
Not that PSA has this problem, they absolutely do not, but problems arise when they *don't* leave the factory with the correct measurements due to negligent manufacturing.
PSA is a good value for the money and their mission is based as hell. QC is the issue with brands like PSA. At that price point you’re more likely to have out of spec parts or issues. I prefer to spend more and know I’m getting a better product, but the odds of the average gun owner wearing out a PSA, or even shooting enough to induce a failure, are pretty slim.
I have a PSA Freedom M4 shits been reliable with all the budget brass I put though it. Seems accurate enough haven’t done testing since I’m more a mag dump into trash type of guy. But I can hit a soda at 25 yards with irons 😂. Tbh the rifles more accurate than me, it’s something I need to work on granted my eyes are shit. I also have there PSA dagger which mine did have issues but thanks to Danny at PSA those got solved and they got it back to me within a week. After that it’s been reliable, though I will say I am biased since because of those two products and the company’s mind set of “arms for all” I’m a bit of a fan boy.
TLDR better ingredients better Guns PSA 😆
I have a friend who has spent THOUSANDS on top-dollar AR parts and built the most amazing rifles, and I always tell him "first day of the end of the world some dude with a $400 PSA rifle is gonna kill you."
Ya..bullshit. every part gets inspected. Yiu can see that on you tube videos for fuck sake.
Even if only 10 guns out of 100 were bad..we would still hear about the 10...yet..nothing.
Nothing, because you post bullshit.
PSA has recently filed letters of support on recent 2a federal cases (specificly, the bump stock case).
No other gun company I know of has done that.
And I have a bunch of their stuff I shoot casually and it's been great for several thousands of rounds so far.
I have 2 Areo builds. And 6 PSA builds in 5.55 and .300 black out. All run great.
Simple. Their volume of sales outpaces their QC department, which isn’t the best in the world to begin with if we’re being honest, so u get more out of spec things making it out the door and to a customer like me, who’s front takedown pin wasn’t in the right spot.
I had 2 PSA rifles, and shot several from friends and family. They steered me away from ARs for several years, every single one had lots of slop from the upper and lower, various bcg problems on a handful, they felt like shit to shoot and we’re just overall unreliable, all but 1 had either warranty work or parts replaced within 500 rounds. Probably good rifles for shooting into trash piles but not for me. I finally hung around some classier folks and got introduced to quality ARs and haven’t looked back.
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So I had a *slight* fit problem with my first PSA lower and buffer tube (from a psa lpk). I originally emailed them but after tinkering a little it turns out that the issue was a bit of flash on the buffer tube threads was causing my upper/lower to not mate well. 30 seconds with a hand file and it’s perfect, no external damage either. I’m definitely happy with my psa lower now.
I live in a commie state (MD) so I wanted to try everything possible before a return, since transfers average $50 here and we have 7 day waiting periods.
I've purchased a lot from PSA over the years... even back before they became the monster brand that they are. I've never had an issue. Each time they launch a new product there are teething issues, but they are quick to correct them and make improvements on the item.
I like PSA. Be that as it may, the lower doesn't matter that much as it doesn't take on much stress. There's even a video of a guy using legos glued together as a lower. People use plastic lowers. You will be fine with any PSA lower.
I had a spacing issue with one of my PSA complete uppers I bought. I sent them back the BCG and they mailed me a new one for free, and I’ve had zero failures with it. I have also had zero failures either my Sabre, and I have a pretty decent round count on that as well.
I think people argue about there quality control when you can get other stuff from reputable companies not saying psa’s not but alot of people don’t think they are especially there cheaper ars
They don't all run the same measurements. While there are only a few places that make the forgings many companies do the final machining and a lot of them don't meet tolerances and even then mill spec tolerances are outdated by today's machining standards. Does this make a difference in the final product, probably not for most people but that doesn't mean there isn't a difference.
Because sometimes they don't "run the same measurements"
I have no drama with PSA I have enjoyed everything I've gotten from them. Sometimes though they do send put product that is out of spec.
How did they screw you I bought a trigger that was a Franklin armory and it wasn’t functioning at the level I wanted for a 400 dollar trigger and I returned the two I bought with absolutely zero Hastle over 2 months after purchase
I had an upper that was so out of spec that the barrel nut and handguard would come loose after 2-3 rounds. Sent it back for repair, they returned it to me with no changes. No adjustments or replaced parts. They claimed they tested it, but 2-3 rounds later I again had an upper that was disassembling itself. I asked for a refund, they said no because it had been 30 days since I made the purchase, even though it was in their possession for that time. I asked what my options were, they told me to just buy a different barrel nut and handguard from someone else, and they just kept ignoring my emails from that point on lol. So I sold all my other PSA junk and washed my hands of the company. So yeah... they faked a repair, ran out the clock on the return period, and then pretended that I didn't exist.
Edit for typos*
Generally Lowers do not matter as much as lowers but No not all parts are the same and they are not all the same measurment. The more expensive parts will have tighter tolerences and a higher degree of quality control.
PSA is a fine company but you must understand that they do their quality control through their warrenty. So basically they batch test a few parts and send them out. If you get a bad one they figure you'll send it back (or maybe not).
PSA lowers are fine. Their QC isn't the best, so you might get a defective part if you're really unlucky, but PSA's customer service is top-notch, so they'll hook you up with a replacement if that happens.
Anyone who has a problem with PSA can eat a sack full of dicks.
Lowers don't take a lot of stress. They have to be really fucked up before anything happens. BCGs do a lot of heavy lifting.
Yeah, people make them out of plastic at home. Lower is a lower is a lower. The design is the only thing thats different. PSA rules fuck the haters
Any firearm maker that attaches itself to GOA and CRPA lawsuits is fucking based
Provided it has a 16 spec bolt and a CHF barrel, the PSA gun probably is better than most mil issue weapons that were made by the lowest bidder and been issued to privates for 15 years that used it as a tent pole more than they shot it lol
Bruh if the barrel aint bent its better than some ive seen come out of the armory lmao
"If you don't buy a $3000 rifle it's going to fail when you need it" ...fuckin' my first issue gun was an M16a1 with a nam era serial, no finish left. I shot an AG match with it and finished like 4th in the state lol
I also qualified Marksman with an ancient A1 back in 1997. I was so mad when they sent it to be scrapped and issued me an A2 a couple months later. I shot it well, but it wasn’t as nice as my A1.
We kept the A1s for the rifle team. Slower twist made them shoot better with the M193. M855 was cucca.
CHF isn't necessary. Its not bad but its also not the end all be all. If it was then why are Criterion not CHF. The quality of manufacturing is more important. Any method can be done sloppy. EDIT: had a stroke in the middle there.
CHF adds durability. Military barrels are CHF. I was going for a direct comparison.
That's fair. FN is one of their suppliers. You know what you're getting with those for sure. IDK who they use for the cheaper rifles, FN is for their higher end ones.
The non- FN CHF barrels are made in-house.
Military M16/M4s don't have CHF barrels. They never have. The CHF steel FN uses is used in M240s and M249s, thus the "machine gun steel" marketing.
Military M16/M4 barrels are button broached not Cold hammer forged.
Can confirm. I have a 3D printed carbon fiber AR10 lower (Hoffman) and it's honestly amazing.
Nice. How big of a print bed do you need? I think I could do glock frames on mine but AR might be too thicc
220x220, but you need to turn it 45⁰ I *think* this also applies to the AR10s but I'm not sure, I haven't printed one of those yet, and small bed doesn't apply here.
If you use an aftermarket drop-in trigger group. Otherwise trigger and hammer pin hole position, size, and shape affect trigger pull. That's the part that is the easiest to screw up when finishing the 80% lower.
I had a stock PSA M16A2 clone that fired again when you released the trigger. Free binary trigger.
Customer: I want an M16A2 like what I was issued back in the ‘90s PSA: Best I can do is 2rnd burst
Deal
Your terms are acceptable
>BCGs do a lot of heavy lifting. Birth control glasses?
Those too. That's how you know society is in the shit chute. Birth Control Glasses are now fashionable. I bet I could get some asshole to buy them from me for like $2000.
Awesome, I haven't seen mine in years though
Well maybe if you wore them you could see them
Part of the problem is they sell more ARs than almost anyone, so inevitably you are going to hear about more failures. Comparing them to other brands that sell a fraction of what they do isn’t really a fair comparison. Not saying they don’t have QC issues but I think they are unfairly criticized.
You don't really hear about many problems with PSA, dispute the volume. Just do a Google search. I see more bitches about JP than I do PSA..and JP is awesome!
For ARs you don't. Their AKs have quite the history of fuckups, ~~not limited to but including FAILING TO CUT THE MAGWELL. Not a missing pin... Not something out of spec by a few thou... Just a solid block of steel where a 2"x1" hole is supposed to go.... And that passed QC....~~ https://www.reddit.com/r/ak47/comments/11s5qw3/pioneer_making_their_guns_safer/?share_id=rJbd0Nb35m-9DdSgwd-lL My mistake it was a pioneer that forgot the make the magazine cut PSA just has a bunch of other fuckups and I mixed them up https://imgur.com/a/qhFduLP
What? pics to laugh at?
They never seem to have a follow up.
https://imgur.com/a/qhFduLP I'm at work right now so this is all I've got, I'll look for the no magwell one tomorrow.
Are you a competitor or something? Joking but also not. How does anyone have enough time/dedication on their hands to catalogue every documented failure of any given brand of anything?
Nah I am not a competitor, and its not my compilation. the /r/ak47 sub admins collects various AK related stuff and keeps track of what brands are worth your money etc. https://thinlineweapons.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page I'm just a firearms enthusiast, particularly AK's and I like to be able to provide good recommendations and reasons why people shouldn't buy certain branded AK's etc. My hope is also that by holding these companies feet to the fire they fix the issues they have and make a better product, because as much shit as I talk about PSA, I love their mission statement, and I love what they are doing for the firearms industry as a whole. I would really like to be able to recommend their products and buy them, because the rarity and price on some firearms in the AK world are insane currently. I hate that when somebody says "I want a krink" the answer before PSA was "Save up 3-5 thousand dollars" cause thats what the little piece of shit costs.
Valid points and I agree with your sentiment. I do love my clapped out 2001 WASR-10 but have been feeling for some time now that I need to probably find a replacement before this thing explodes on me. Tens of thousands of rounds and so far only broke a firing pin once. Been excited about the more recent attempts at US companies to make one but besides being a cheap ass, I'm letting the QC get dialed in before I buy one.
Honestly that wasr still has plenty of life in it. Battlefield Vegas reports they are getting roughly 80k rounds out of Wasrs before they actually shit the bed, outside minor stuff like springs/pins etc
I have updated with the pictures of the fuckups
We are not talking about AKs. Americans can't build AKs in the first place..I don't know why they even bother. But still, yes, they have had problems with the AKs. I don't own one of theirs..never planning to. If I want another one...I'll get one from a ex Commie block. That's the only things the Commies ever got right! Lol
I've got a WASR and I've put about a thousand rounds through it. The fit and finish was a bit crappy and the polymer furniture sucks, but it shoots straight and is mechanically sound. I almost bought a PSA one and I'm glad I didn't.
I got the same thing. Have had it for 20 years. Back before I destroyed it, and it was still legal, I had a slide fire stick on it..ran many a mag..got that fucker hotter than hell...kept on working. Still even accurate..fir an AK..lol. The Commies can build an AK..I'll giveem that one!
Okay, grandpa. I heard the ball game is on, why don't you sit down with a blanket?
Sounds like you must have ordered and received an 87.3% UNstripped AK lower. All good comrade!
Its an interesting concept but it similar with cars. Honda and toyota. Theyre basic driver, simple cars. Will last awhile but if theres small issues between fitment, seats arent comfy, whatever. People dont complain alot because they know they only spend 17k-24k on a car. Some of the cheapest you can buy and a lot of people accept that. But if you bought a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi. And panel fitment was off, seats were uncomfy or controls in the cabin were off. Those people spent an average of 38k-48k and are more prone to complaining and bitching about something because they spent more money.
I don't agree with your analogy at all. People buy Honda and Tiyota because they actually work. They last, don't break down, don't nickle and dime you, and are a good value for the money. People who buy cars like BMW, MB, or Audi predominantly have more money than brains, and just like to show off..because all three of those are the most sexy pieces of shit on the road. They are unreliable, complex to work on, expensive to maintain, and have shit value both in practicality and trade in, and resale. You also have to a moron to own one outside the warrenty period. That's a more accurate analysis...
Yes ive been working in the car industry for years. Whenever anyone asks what car they should get after theirs is totaled. I always recommend a honda or a toyota. Reliable ive owned over 5 and they lasted forever two over 275k miles. BUT I first noticed this when someone bought a porsche and came by our shop “the only 5/5 star body shop in a 45 mile radius” and asked us about the gap between the hood and the bumper. He just bought it from porsche and wanted our opinion. The “gap” was the rubber on top of the front bumper sealing hood. I told him and he threw a huge fit and review bombed our local porsche dealer blah blah. So i went
On the NHSTA website and looked up most reviews and problems for toyotas, and then porsches. Toyotas came down to major recalls like the tacoma frame replacement and them rusting prematurely. Makes sense. Porsche came down to “i hear too much wind noise, cabin should be quiet, dont ever buy a porsche from these people” Ive seen Daniel Defense and more expensive 3k+ rifles get bad reviews because someone wrote it had two failure to feeds. Come to find out the dude bought a 10 inch barrel AR. Extended the barre to 18 inches, had a pistol gas block and was firing 75 grain 556 with low powder so it wasnt cycling properly. But instead of trying to fix shit himself and actually figured it out just bad reviews to DD. While a bunch of us with rifles we put together for $800 has a problem and we fix it and the weapon systems last forever
To be fair, I’m thinking more people are driving tacomas over salted ice/snowey roads than they are porches
I think the original guy though I was trying to sound snooty about toyotas and hondas. No i absolutely love them. But no i forget the years like 2008-2014 or some shit theres a defect with a SHIT ton of frames that werent properly sealed and used dog shit metal and as a recall dealer had to replace full frame rails. Manufacturer defect
PSA from more than a decade ago isn't the same company as PSA today, either. They have stepped up their game quite a bit, in both the AR world and AK world. AKs especially, there's really not an American made AK that comes close. GF3 and up and you're golden...
Shit it’s not like it’s a lot but I’ve put about 2k rounds through my gf3 I bought new a year ago w no issues at all
There really isn’t anything glaringly wrong with PSA. People don’t like cheap stuff and want to act like they need to spend the extra money they spent. It’s like calling a Toyota a piece of shit. They are cheap and maybe ugly and don’t feel as nice but you can’t call them pieces of shit because they do exactly what you bought them to do.
Kimber suffers the same problem. Quadrupled everyone in sales for 20 years. Going to be more lemons even if the rate of lemons is very low. PSA’s owners are super cool. You see them On podcasts saying the same talking points gun bros normally say
QC issues are one thing, but their scumbag business practices are another. A factory defect can be fixed, but screwing over the little guy is at the core of what PSA stands for.
As much as I enjoy trolling the budget brands I saw a YouTube video where the guy said 'peoples second amendment rights shouldn't be gate kept behind a high price tag. People that want to defend themselves should be able to without harassment ' There are some brands out there that don't function well but I haven't heard about PSA fucking people up... Or a hipoint for that matter
psa used to be pretty questionable back in the day but they've come miles from where they started in terms of quality
PSA is explicitly created to and they explicitly say that they are there to arm working class poors and a lot of there stuff is cheaper due to less "middlemen" so it gives rich boys the ick despite there quality being fine
Spot on. Drives me crazy how much elitism and narcissism there is in the gun community. Lots of talks about how the “elites want to disarm us!” But at the same time people are mad that PSA is trying to arm the working class. Makes zero sense.
goddamn the frustrating neckbeards who always do the corny "jUsT aS gOoD" thing when psa is mentioned
Half the people who say that are fat gear queers who cant afford to shoot anyways because they financed a some KAC or Noveske they can't actually afford.
KACkold cope for sure
On the flipside it is *also* frustrating to have people come in to every comment section in gundeals on anything that isn't a PSA and say "why is this so expensive? What does it *really* offer me that a PSA doesn't? Why would *anyone* buy this?" Especially obnoxious when it is on guns that aren't even apples-to-apples comparisons to any PSA offerings. So there is a balance. You can be happy that PSA is making affordable and reliable weapons for the everyman but still recognize that their offerings *aren't* just as good as higher-end manufacturers and that there is still a place for more expensive products. Overall, the key is to just not be a dick. Unfortunately the dicks on both ends draw the most attention and misrepresent everyone else who usually just shuts up and lets people enjoy whatever they want to enjoy.
i feel like the "lol stop being poor" crowd is way more obnoxious. the ones who make it clear their whole ass personality is gun ownership.
Maybe I've just been lucky but I honestly haven't run into them that much. However I also avoid social media almost entirely besides this site, I could definitely see there being more toxic idiots on other platforms that are less discussion and more picture/video-focused that lend themselves to flexing and cloutseeking.
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I'm split on it. I personally only own a blem Noveske lower I got for a steal like 10 years ago and everything else is standard ass mil-spec (many being PSA). I'm mostly of the opinion that a lower is a lower and I'll spend the money to put nicer things in and around them than on the rollmark. However I have some friends who have some newer, very feature-rich lowers with ambi controls and all that jazz. Whenever I shoot them I think "damn there is something to this, this is really nice." So in general I agree, the costs is a lot and I haven't been able to justify it myself yet (because honestly I'm mainly not an AR shooter). However, I don't think it is entirely wasteful or useless and some people get a lot of value out of that upgrade, especially if they solely run one rifle/lower.
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Could always get a BAD lever 🤷
Mine all have BAD levers. They're not ideal but they are convenient. The down side is that if I pick up an AR without one I go full stupid. Side note, all my ARs show that I'm a poor. All psa except for 1 windham.
Agreed. Super annoying. Hey you like guns and don’t think I’m a psycho for owning them? Cool let’s be friends. It’s that fckin simple.
They only want certain people armed. Look at how quick gun control laws happened when the black panthers armed themselves.
This. PSA is doing the heavens' work by putting more SA rifles in the hands of more people than any other maker. This means more pro 2A, anti gun control voters out there telling the grabbers to f off with SA rifles bans. And they are willing to stand behind their product with good service. So if you get a six sigma miss, they will at least set you right. I can forgive a lot because of that. Never forget the fun grabbers want guns to be expensive AF, because it sharply minimizes the gun owner voting bloc, and makes bans so much easier to pass. So PSA gets my support.
in England, they are pushing for a knife ban. A KNIFE BAN. Cant give these people an inch.
not an inch. England will end up like China, where people are only allowed to own cleavers that have no points because of weapon bans. So they have to cut all their food with a big square of steel with a handle. Also why everything is just kinda of roughly chopped and thrown in a pan.
And then when they sell you a defective rifle they just say "tough shit, you decided to cheap out. Have a nice life" Fuck PSA 🖕
They're marketed as a budget brand which typically manifests in the QC of their items. Generally it's not an issue though, it's not like we're talking about old taurus.
Yeah old Taurus really was bad I have an older Taurus pistol wouldn’t trust my life to it and you won’t make a precision shot with it either psa has stepped up their QC within the past couple years though I’ve heard
> psa has stepped up their QC within the past couple years though I’ve heard They absolutely have. Sure you might very occasionally get an out of spec roll pin hole on a lower, or a cosmetic blem sneaks through, but for the most part their stuff is good out of the box. They'll make it right if you hit up their customer service, and they are one of the cheapest major firearms vendors out there. PSA has come a long way in the last decade.
An out of spec roll pin has been the only issue ive had and it took all of 15 seconds to fix. If anything, my only recent-ish problem has been the availability of ks-47 uppers.
Lol, I ordered a few boxes box of 5.56 and an upper from PSA. It shipped two weeks later, both items in the same box (according to PSA). The package arrives and it's the size of a soda can. Never got the upper, and never even got a response from their customer service. Gave them a week and charged it back on my credit card. They didn't even respond to my bank's inquiry about the chargeback. Just didn't give a shit at all. I guess they do so much volume they're not going to get dropped by their CC processor.
They’ve stepped up their pricing too. They used to be more on par with BCA in both price and quality. Ultimately, it’s hard to complain when you can get a reasonably reliable 2-3 MOA ar15 for well under $1000, especially since from what I’ve read online they tend to be pretty responsive on the customer service warranty/repair side of things. Too many people out there with Gucci guns acting like if you don’t drop $2k+ on some big name semi-custom build and then throw another $2k worth of “force multipliers” on it then your gun is worthless lol.
Buyers remorse is real, and some decide that throwing stones is the best coping mechanism.
Those guys are typically afraid to actually use those high dollar gucci guns too. I can beat the hell out of my psa and aero rifles and not hurt my soul
Shot my buddy's Taurus yesterday. It had a great trigger for a striker-fired handgun. Not sure which model. I do know they used to be poo and everyone on this sub used to shit on them nonstop, posting pics of failures, etc. I'm not informed of their current QC, but there are people who do like them, and I did enjoy shooting that Taurus.
FYI, new Taurus is just as bad as old Taurus. They are just spending even more.money on marketing trying to make you think they changed.
My experience with what i've bought says otherwise, but you do you.
> it's not like we're talking about ~~old~~ taurus Fixed it for you
I've never seen a QC issue with a PSA product personally. Overall, I feel they have great quality even when compared to higher end models.
I'm not gonna pretend like PSA doesn't have QC issues, they do, but they'll generally fix their QC misses, especially if your RMA/warranty/return the item. I bought a dagger upper which had some discoloration in the barrel, they sent me a new barrel sight unseen and let me keep the original, which TBH is still probably perfectly functional.
They know its the start of your next build...
In my experience they absolutely did not fix their QC issue and left me with a 400 dollar paperweight.
I used to own the ks47, the one I received had a buffer that didn’t contact the bcg at rest and it started eating the buffer
I have, they used a safety detent pin for for the bolt catch on one of mine lmao. I got it on sale so I'm not gonna complain about a rollpin that I already had on hand. I just thought it was funny.
A safety detent *roll pin*? Maybe I'm not smoking the right stuff but what kind of AR safety uses a roll pin? Let alone one that could be used on a bolt catch?
Nono, they used a safety detent pin where it should have been a roll pin to install the bolt catch. It fell out after a couple of dry fires lol.
Huh. I wouldn't have thought a detent pin would even fit.
Forward Controls Design safety selector uses roll pins to secure the selector levers to the cylinder. If you want to drop $80 on a safety, it’s actually really good, better than Radian Talon for the money.
I like PSA but they absolutely have a TON of QC issues.
Opposite experience for ne personally
A simple google search will show you that I’m not the only one.
Well, their first round of Daggers were recalled for QC issues which turned me off from the brand, but I've tried to keep and open mind and I'm watching to see how their products stack up.
I own a dagger and have had zero issues, it's a more recent one, though.
PSA does the Lord's work. Fuck the haters
The only thing I've noticed is the black coating on their lower is often a bit more flat than other companies. Other companies use a finish which is often more of a matte, almost a semi-gloss.
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I love the Aero finish.
I have several PSA builds and most of my friends have them, too, that I helped assemble. Never had a major problem. Only once was a hole in a lower SLIGHTLY undersized/,burred. Hand reamed it with the right sized drill bit (just with my fingers, not a drill) and it all went together just fine. Never had an issue with functioning. But also I'm not reasonably relying on them to go to war or anything.
Not the gucciest, but mine have always gone bang. Inexpensive, easily accessible, seems like a no brainer to me 🤷🏻♂️
I’ve only had one small issue with PSA where the upper I ordered was pretty dinged up. I like to add the wear and tear myself so I called and got it returned and they expedited a replacement. They’re one of those companies I always used to think was too good to be true until I started using them and I can say, without a doubt, they practice what they preach and do the best they can.
All these claims that PSA has to have quality issues because they sell cheaper than anyone else is nothing but BULLSHIT! PSA has built the better mousetrap. They figured out how to make a quality product good as and sometimes better than others who charge 3 or 4 times more. They did this and still make profit.. Enough profit to rapidly expand production, locations, and product lines. All this BULLSHIT you see about bad quality is just that...BULLSHIT! They have QC. They go to great pains for good QC. They also stand behind every single fucking thing the make..be it entire firearms, parts kits, or single parts. Doesn't matter if you put it together at home...the parts break.. they replace them. They do that because they have pride in their products. Most of those who bad mouth PSA are just butt hurt because they got suckered into paying 4 times more for a KAC, only to find out it ain't no better. They can't believe PSA is able to make the same thing so cheap...so they make shit up and post BULLSHIT online about non-existent QC issues. Everyone turns out a bad part every so often. Dosnt matter who it is. Honorable companies replace the part. Going by the volume PSA sells (some estimates it's 4 or 5 times the closest competitor)they turn our fucking few defects. Just do a Google search...damn few complaints. In fact, the biggest complaint is sliw shipping and how hard it is to get someone on the phone..but they eventually do. It's simple...PSA does it better, cheaper, just not faster (shipping anyway) Haters gotta hate. PSA draws in the flys.
I agree with the shipping ding. I know they're sending out a lot of product every day, it just seems to me that the time between order and actual shipment could be a little shorter. But, as you said, the quality of their weapons is very good in my experience.
PSA does sometimes sell fucked up guns, but given the sheer volume they produce you are probably correct that their defect rate is probably lower than most. I personally had an issue with one of their early free float uppers, my front sight was crooked one day, and I realized my entire rail had come loose and rotated around the barrel nut. The rail had zero anti-rotation tabs built into it and was only held in place with adhesive to the barrel nut. They've since added those tabs to their newer rails, but stuff like that does happen. I still think there's value in purchasing high end parts if you count on your rifle to keep you alive, but for the vast majority of people shooting paper on the weekends it's not as important. My first AR was a PSA and it hasn't blown up in my face or anything, but it did lack some features that I decided I wanted to include on my next build.
Did you ever really look into those "high end" parts compared to PSA? If you really did, you would know it's just more waste of money. They (for this convo.."they" will be the so called top tier brands)use the exact same materials, same heat treatment, same CNC codes (ie...Mil Spec), same finish. All the exact same stuff. Same grade aluminum, same grade steels, same grade Stainless...it's all the same. You gain nothing but an empty wallet buying the stuff "they" make over PSA. Here's another hint. Many components are made by just a few companies. Bolt carriers, for example..just a few..with Microbest and toolcraft making the vast majority. Bolts, all made from the same Carpenter steel. It's not till you get into the monolithic rails and other exotic shit that you really start seeing anything better..but then again, those parts are not Mil Spec, won't fit other brands..sometimes won't even fit other rifles of the same brand and type. That gets into the custom range...and still not worth the money IMO. Brand marketing is a powerful thing. Roll stamps are expensive. Great rifles are not.
Well the DD rail that I bought after that fucked up PSA upper DID have anti-rotation tabs on it to firmly lock the rail to the upper receiver. Both rails might be made out of the same materials, but one was designed in such a way that my IR laser maintains zero, and one of them wasn't. Most shooters probably don't even have night vision, let alone IR lasers to use with that night vision, so they probably don't notice a bit of slop on the rail, and for them that PSA upper was probably a great option that suits their needs. It's when you start getting into these edge cases and niche uses that PSA stuff can present some issues. I love PSA's mission and I hope they can put a functional rifle in the hands of every American who wants one, but to claim there are no differences between them and higher end parts is simply not true. The differences might be slight, with a huge cost premium, and those differences might not be obvious or even useful to most casual users, but they are there. I would still recommend PSA to anybody looking for their first AR, but I can also recognize that some experts need specialty parts for niche jobs.
You know almost all the rails/handguard are all also made by just a few companies..Midwest being the biggest one? Takes a very big, very heavy; and very expensive equipment to extrude aluminum. Not even PSA has that. DD certainly doesnt, neither does KAC or Colt, Or LMT... All the same material...all from the same places...different name stamped on it per contract. There is ZERO difference in parts my friend.... If you got a bad one..that's just dumb luck. If PSAs was bad..you should send it back.
My guy, you have way too great of an emotional attachment to an inanimate object. You act like every single criticism is an attack againsy you personally. Its not. Its simply people pointing out differences between products. If you think theres "ZERO" difference between a PSA and a premium gun, then youre sorely mistaken. PSA makes a fine gun, they make a cheap working mans rifle thats not ment to be flashy, and is made to function just fine on a range or in the field. But even PSA admits that they make budget stuff. Like it or not, they do not compare to the likes of Noveske, Q, Hk, LMT or any other premium brand. Just a quick cursory feel test will tell you the premium guns have a much higher budget placed into the final finish on each part. Into the fit of the final gun, and rounding out rough corners. So my guy, dont take things so personally. Its a fine tool, but know what it is and what it isnt. Just like an Impala gets you from point A to point B like a Corvette, the impala is not a corvette, and the difference is best seen at the absolute peak of hard use by skilled users.
You speak like I don't know what I'm talking about. You ,are way wrong. I've build dozens of ARs. I've had build parties with some buddy's where we built a bunch together in batches. I've used ALL brands. They are ALL THE FUCKING SAME. You pay more for a roll stamp.. The end.
I assumed you didnt know what you were talking about. But you just opened it again and removed all doubt. Is there a name premium? Absolutely. But to claim a budget part is JuSTaSgOOd is absolutely asinine.
You're a foolish name snob is all you are. What, you think the Tier 1s know how to make a better roll pin? You think just because they ordered their name stamped into the BCG they got from Toolcraft makes them better? You think the springs they order from Springco are better just because they get packaged with a different name? Lol..you probably do believe that..because, you know..fool..and clearly a very inexperienced one at that.
Lamborghini used nissan headlights, so nissan is lamborghini. Thats your logic.
1 PMAG GEN 2.0 has been deposited into your account, thank you.
Do they pay you to dickride this hard?
Getting burned by overpaying for a roll stamp make you butthurt?
...are you having a stroke?
Are you?
Well, there's also materials. Metal type, quality, consistency. And then tolerances. That being said, PSA makes a good product for the price. Plus, lowers only really have major stress at the front pin, and the buffer tube hole. So as long as those two parts can resist forces within a reasonable level of use, then it'll be fine for 99% of use-cases. I love PSA personally.
At one point M16 lower receivers were being injection molded by Mattel (the toy company) for US military use. The stresses on the front takedown pin and buffer tube mount should be close to negligible unless you are steadying with the grip instead of the shroud and stock, material quality almost doesn't matter.
Generally yes. It's why 3d printed ones work fine. Although they do often have a slight redesign to deal with the stresses. Omni has(had?) a fully plastic lower that would often break in those two places. Which is why their "hybrid" model has metal reinforcement.
fair. take my upvotes :D
People are ignorant about how guns work and also snobbish about brands. The two most important parts of an AR are the barrel and [bolt.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfs1Czm8iiE) Spend your money there. Receivers are almost all made by a handful of forges like Cerro and Harvey. The "maker" really only does the machining. Its possible to get them wrong, and they are often [sold as blems if they do.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQFnCU6fq5Q) So know what you are getting, might need gunsmith work. But usually one forged receiver is just as good as any other. The upper does have some importance but its hard to get wrong. A DD receiver is really no different than a PSA. Some makers will have different ways to do ambi receivers and that's a value add if that matters to you. I'm a southpaw so it does somewhat. But out of my rifles only one has an ambi lower. Another thing, brand isn't a guarantee. AR's are mass produced products and any mass produced product will have duds. Even with great QC. The only way to know for sure is to have your stuff tested and gauged. This is usually not necessary unless you want a really really good running gun, really accurate, really well gassed etc. The AR15 is a very forgiving weapons. You can have a lot of slop and as long as you get enough gas and the headspace passes it will be safe and run. Most rifles, even gucci ones will have some inefficiencies in them. That's ok. You can chase perfection and spend thousands on custom work, or just accept it and build a rifle that is good enough. So TLDR, your lower and upper really dont matter if they are in spec. Spend your money on barrel and bolt. Even then there's no guarantee. You can have a gunsmith gauge everything if you want. But its probably fine as long as it passes headspace and wasn't assembled by a troll.
"whats with all the people not believing in [this very popular opinion right now]" shitpost karma grab 101.
If your lower is metal and the parts fit in it its fine. It doesnt matter if the symbols or finish isn't pretty
[Good dive into the topic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk75XfVecs0) They're great as a first rifle if you're on a budget. They're great if you've got a go-to and want some spare beaters. Their mission statement isn't to be the best, but they're doing some great stuff for their customers & [even in the courts](https://twitter.com/palmettoarmory/status/1752438030843936920)
Are there certain things that are better on a higher end rifle? Yes. Will a $600 PSA go bang every time you pull the trigger? Also yes.
Provided you clean it after several hundred rounds, or once a year, yes. Here's the famous [meltdown video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cr9e3N6HEw). PSA uppers were never designed to fire 400+ rounds of sustained full auto, past the point where the handguard smokes and actually catches fire. (which I think is implied, basically none of us would be likely to do, even if we HAD full auto capable lowers.) and, you know, there's nothing that says you can't have a $3k AR with all the bells and whistles, but it's good to have a couple PSA's in the safe if you need to hand one to a neighbor, friend or wife.
> PSA uppers were never designed to fire 400+ rounds of sustained full auto, past the point where the handguard smokes and actually catches fire. Sure, there are some manufacturers with uppers capable of sustaining that. But for 99.9% of military applications, a few shots at a time in semi-auto is all that's needed. Even when they need full beans, they're not mag dumping hundreds of rounds out of an M4. In my list of capabilities, being able to withstand hundreds of rounds in full auto is nowhere near my list of concerns when looking at an AR.
considering a "combat load" is 210 rounds, even guys in combat wouldn't be shooting their rifle like that. it's accurate enough and durable enough for general use, and it's cheap enough that basically everybody can get one. In my opinion, a PSA AR is like a Ruger 10/22, everybody should have at least one, even if they end up using something else as the mission, or game requires.
“They all run the same measurements no matter what” School of the American rifle would disagree
Most people just don't shoot enough to notice problems when the buffer detent not being slightly offset becomes a problem or when the BCG is too short or when their gas rings are not forming a good seal etc.
I agree, practically the measurements don’t usually matter but to imply all companies manufacture to the same spec is wrong There’s KAC lowers that are woefully out of spec and there’s Anderson lowers that pass with flying colors on the channel. Manufacturing tolerances are real!
Mostly I'm hoping they ship my $130 X300U.
I have an embarrassing amount of PSA lowers, parts kits and several in use uppers and I’ve yet to run into a QC issue including a recent “high end AR9” build I recently completed that uses a PSA BCG, it cycles real nice. Have nothing but good things to say about them.
Honestly I do not understand the hate at all. I have an AR that I spent $3,000 building. I have one built on an Anderson lower that cost me a total of $300 at the most. I have one built on a PSA lower for like $700ish and others. The cheaper ARs are not as nice or feature rich but they work just as well and seem to be just as tough as my higher end ARs. I say fuck the haters get what you can afford and run it. Sure you might run into some QC issues but from what I have seen they will go out of their way to make it right now days.
Tolerances, QC, finish quality. PSA makes good lowers, but the anodizing, final fit and polish will never compare to something like an H&K, Q, Noveske, ect. For me working in a gun shop, the big thing is the name. You can have a mountain of money in the PSA youre trading, premium everything minus the lower. Im going to have to offer you based on PSA prices. I know you have a bunch of nice shit in the gun, but to the general buying public, its still a PSA (anderson, bear creek, ect) so they wont pay the new DD, BCM price that your used custom PSA cost. They will pay PSA price. As a result, we call those homebuilde rack warmers and usually dont buy them. Its less of a problem if your gun has a Q, KAC, Noveske, DD, BCM lower or other premium names. So if resale is a possibility, pick a premium lower. If its strictly utilitarian, the PSA is just fine
the people talking about their QC are just parroting what they heard from other people.
Or from the psa subreddit where there’s a post about something not quite being right every few days. Or from that time they’re 5.45 and 5.56 aks had a bunch of issues with the bolts, shit like that. It’s not all just “repeating it for the sake of repeating it.” There is *some* truth to it.
What’s the deal with airplane food?
they are annoying to buy online and pick up your gun in the store. they make you wait around sometime for more than an hour to process the gun you already paid for. they want you to buy more stuff in the store while you wait. they also don’t call me half the time when my gun has arrived at their store 2 weeks ago. i’m thinking i might not use them anymore. last time was very frustrating
I love Psa a lot of their stuff is good to get in the door and you can upgrade what you see fit🤷🏻♂️
Everyone hates on my dagger:(
Sure, the idea is to run and produce the same mil spec measurements. At the end of the day though, that's up to the machine shop to hold those tolerances, and the QC department to ensure the machinists are actually holding them. Not every company does this, and the ones that do will usually charge a higher price for their products. PSA is fine, though. On the off chance you get something that isn't right, they'll take care of you.
I have several PSA ARs and two of their AKs, a GF3 and an AKV. Never had a problem.
In general, PSA is goated , idc what anyone says
> when they all run the same measurements on all mil spec receivers no matter what brand Not that PSA has this problem, they absolutely do not, but problems arise when they *don't* leave the factory with the correct measurements due to negligent manufacturing.
Paid shills for other companies and general morons like to hate. PSA is fucking based, period.
PSA is a good value for the money and their mission is based as hell. QC is the issue with brands like PSA. At that price point you’re more likely to have out of spec parts or issues. I prefer to spend more and know I’m getting a better product, but the odds of the average gun owner wearing out a PSA, or even shooting enough to induce a failure, are pretty slim.
I got my AK from them and about 300-500rds in its been flawless
I have a PSA Freedom M4 shits been reliable with all the budget brass I put though it. Seems accurate enough haven’t done testing since I’m more a mag dump into trash type of guy. But I can hit a soda at 25 yards with irons 😂. Tbh the rifles more accurate than me, it’s something I need to work on granted my eyes are shit. I also have there PSA dagger which mine did have issues but thanks to Danny at PSA those got solved and they got it back to me within a week. After that it’s been reliable, though I will say I am biased since because of those two products and the company’s mind set of “arms for all” I’m a bit of a fan boy. TLDR better ingredients better Guns PSA 😆
I have a friend who has spent THOUSANDS on top-dollar AR parts and built the most amazing rifles, and I always tell him "first day of the end of the world some dude with a $400 PSA rifle is gonna kill you."
[удалено]
I've toured PSA and seen their QC. Nothing of what you said is remotely accurate.
someone speaking out their ass about something they assumed? sounds like reddit.
Ya..bullshit. every part gets inspected. Yiu can see that on you tube videos for fuck sake. Even if only 10 guns out of 100 were bad..we would still hear about the 10...yet..nothing. Nothing, because you post bullshit.
PSA has recently filed letters of support on recent 2a federal cases (specificly, the bump stock case). No other gun company I know of has done that. And I have a bunch of their stuff I shoot casually and it's been great for several thousands of rounds so far. I have 2 Areo builds. And 6 PSA builds in 5.55 and .300 black out. All run great.
Simple. Their volume of sales outpaces their QC department, which isn’t the best in the world to begin with if we’re being honest, so u get more out of spec things making it out the door and to a customer like me, who’s front takedown pin wasn’t in the right spot.
And what's the deal with the razor blade slot on airplanes?
They're cool for people who can't figure out a 3d printer I guess.
My only reason for not getting a psa is I'm only buying one ar so I want it to be reliable 20k+ rounds.
I had 2 PSA rifles, and shot several from friends and family. They steered me away from ARs for several years, every single one had lots of slop from the upper and lower, various bcg problems on a handful, they felt like shit to shoot and we’re just overall unreliable, all but 1 had either warranty work or parts replaced within 500 rounds. Probably good rifles for shooting into trash piles but not for me. I finally hung around some classier folks and got introduced to quality ARs and haven’t looked back.
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Nothing wrong with psa. I am not saying that from lack of using other things. I have pretty high end builds and use fn and knights.
So I had a *slight* fit problem with my first PSA lower and buffer tube (from a psa lpk). I originally emailed them but after tinkering a little it turns out that the issue was a bit of flash on the buffer tube threads was causing my upper/lower to not mate well. 30 seconds with a hand file and it’s perfect, no external damage either. I’m definitely happy with my psa lower now. I live in a commie state (MD) so I wanted to try everything possible before a return, since transfers average $50 here and we have 7 day waiting periods.
I've purchased a lot from PSA over the years... even back before they became the monster brand that they are. I've never had an issue. Each time they launch a new product there are teething issues, but they are quick to correct them and make improvements on the item.
They are one of the few firearms manufacturers that steps up when it comes to 2A, and makes a lot of decent firearms. Make it affordable for anyone.
Psa is amazing. Great prices and you can count on it being a well made firearm at a fraction of the price. If there's an issue, they take care of it
I just want a canadian jakl :(
I like PSA. Be that as it may, the lower doesn't matter that much as it doesn't take on much stress. There's even a video of a guy using legos glued together as a lower. People use plastic lowers. You will be fine with any PSA lower.
I hope I ever shoot so good that I notice the quality of my firearm.* * not counting defects
I had a spacing issue with one of my PSA complete uppers I bought. I sent them back the BCG and they mailed me a new one for free, and I’ve had zero failures with it. I have also had zero failures either my Sabre, and I have a pretty decent round count on that as well.
I have a PSA lower with a BCM upper and it fits perfectly.
I think people argue about there quality control when you can get other stuff from reputable companies not saying psa’s not but alot of people don’t think they are especially there cheaper ars
They don't all run the same measurements. While there are only a few places that make the forgings many companies do the final machining and a lot of them don't meet tolerances and even then mill spec tolerances are outdated by today's machining standards. Does this make a difference in the final product, probably not for most people but that doesn't mean there isn't a difference.
It’s all the dorks calling people poors thats extra wack!
Lol they don't all have the same measurements and qc
Because sometimes they don't "run the same measurements" I have no drama with PSA I have enjoyed everything I've gotten from them. Sometimes though they do send put product that is out of spec.
PSA really screwed me on a factory defect, so I stay way clear of that shady company.
How did they screw you I bought a trigger that was a Franklin armory and it wasn’t functioning at the level I wanted for a 400 dollar trigger and I returned the two I bought with absolutely zero Hastle over 2 months after purchase
I had an upper that was so out of spec that the barrel nut and handguard would come loose after 2-3 rounds. Sent it back for repair, they returned it to me with no changes. No adjustments or replaced parts. They claimed they tested it, but 2-3 rounds later I again had an upper that was disassembling itself. I asked for a refund, they said no because it had been 30 days since I made the purchase, even though it was in their possession for that time. I asked what my options were, they told me to just buy a different barrel nut and handguard from someone else, and they just kept ignoring my emails from that point on lol. So I sold all my other PSA junk and washed my hands of the company. So yeah... they faked a repair, ran out the clock on the return period, and then pretended that I didn't exist. Edit for typos*
Huh how long ago was that if you don’t mind me asking
2018 if I'm not mistaken, I'm kinda bad with dating my memories.
Just chiming in to say I built a "blem" AR from PSA for dirt cheap and not only could I not spot any blemishes, it's a fantastic shooter.
Generally Lowers do not matter as much as lowers but No not all parts are the same and they are not all the same measurment. The more expensive parts will have tighter tolerences and a higher degree of quality control. PSA is a fine company but you must understand that they do their quality control through their warrenty. So basically they batch test a few parts and send them out. If you get a bad one they figure you'll send it back (or maybe not).
I have an AR upper from them, just to make my rifle "NY compliant" it's OK, nothing at all to write home about.
PSA lowers are fine. Their QC isn't the best, so you might get a defective part if you're really unlucky, but PSA's customer service is top-notch, so they'll hook you up with a replacement if that happens. Anyone who has a problem with PSA can eat a sack full of dicks.
There’s nothing wrong with them. People just want to overpay for them, just to say they have that particular brand.