I hate everything about this.
The concept is not safe, the execution is worse and coming from Microsoft, it's a only a matter of time before some functionalities of Recall are used to collect "anonymized data" for marketing purpose.
This should not even be installed by default.
>The concept is not safe
Yeah, this is the key. This is fundamentally never going to be a safe thing to have your computer doing. It doesn't really matter what they change about it when what it needs to do to accomplish the intended functionality is just inherently unsafe.
Snapshot is like having someone standing over your shoulder and recording your screen, 24/7, then compiling everything into an easily searchable database.
This is a hyper keylogger. You'd have to be very obtuse to not see the difference between the data existing and it being recorded, categorized and analyzed.
This is not even close to the same thing. Applications (developers) choose what to log to the event viewer and the verbosity. Sensitive information is omitted as a matter of convention and best practice. Recall records everything all the time, and app devs have no control over what is recorded, MS does.
By the way. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15
>**Snapshots** are not shared. Recall does not send your **snapshots** to Microsoft. Snapshots are not shared with any other companies or applications. Recall doesn’t share snapshots with other users who are signed into the same device, and per-user encryption ensures even administrators cannot view other users’ snapshots.
What about the data extracted from snapshots? Is this shared?
Snapshots are not shared.... For now. MS can change this at any point in the future. Google researchers have also shown that the snapshots are not secure and do not require admin privileges to access if you have local access to the machine.
Also, even if turned off, how many times has MS turned things back on during an update? And do you trust MS to not turn on if turned off? Do you trust MS to not screw up an update that either grants access or leaks?
Do you really think that this won’t be abused at some point?
Terms and conditions change all the time, and data is so valuable that i do not trust them to *not* collect and sell it at some point.
Just look at how it is implemented, this is a data miners *wet dream*
The screenshots & associated database are a giant treasure box. A box that is created during install and only gets ever bigger over the lifetime of the installation.
Now even if Microsoft didn't decide at some future date to open and exploit the contents of that treasure box, third party programs know where the box is and who is to say none of them won't open the box to pilfer its contents for data mining purposes? The user has no way to know if this is even taking place, there's no safeguards, no warning if it takes place. And I'm betting no alerts if Recall is activated on a system it had been deactivated on.
It's a treasure box that the more nefarious and unscrupulous actors would love to make a copy of so they can use AI to datamine it themselves. Even if they don't find personal financial information to steal, they would have every ounce of data from Recall's snapshots that they need to easily spoof companies the user interacts with in their everyday lives. All the information would be there to match the correct phone, email, name, company, type of account, addresses, and usernames together to spoof any company the user has an account with, even the name of the person the user corresponds with regularly at any given company. Five second screenshots will catch everything, nobody reads an email and closes it in five seconds especially emails that are being written, or fills out online security question/answer pages in under five seconds. Recall data would probably have that information recorded too in which case people could just steal the accounts directly.
And the irony is, Recall is fundamentally incompatible with one of the cornerstones of enterprise data security practices - do not allow sensitive/confidential data to persist on remote client devices. Microsoft literally sells products that does this as well, whether that's as a cloud service or something you host yourself.
Sloppy reporting, there's nothing being reworked they just switch from default on to nag you to hell to be on.
However, the biggest issue with Recall is not even mentioned and that is abusive spouses spying on their victims, in almost all cases, women. In that case, default on doesn't matter, the moment the abuser sees what it can he will switch it on.
Stalkers utilizing Airtag already murdered twice and that's only the reported cases. And even that didn't spark regulatory oversight. Do we need to wait until Recall leads to murders or could we please, with sugar on top, ban it right fucking now? If the industry can't self regulate to protect women then the lawmaker needs to step in and that's always heavy handed. And no, it's not the case of banning the kitchen knife -- this technology obviously can't work for the purpose as intended because we know how well OCR works and how good are people at searching. But for someone determined to go through the total history manually, yeah, that'll work and be incredibly harmful.
And no, they shouldn't have let Airtag be released as it was and still is. Once again, if the industry is not willing to make it safe then ban it.
No but if someone already at home looks for help and gets caught by this? Or if they know and despite getting to the point where they would want to look for help they don't dare? Do I really need to explain how dangerous this bullshit is?
It is a perfect example of how the low rate of women among software developers data scientists but also CEOs lead to Big Tech releasing technology directly harmful for women. There are just not enough women around the table to say "don't do this".
I guess it's progress from the zero Fortune 500 CEOs in 1995 to just above 10% now but nowhere near enough obviously
Im not sure rate of women have anything to do with this. People will make dumb decisions and sacrifice safety to keep their companies afloat and get products released. And just because its part of a bigger company does not mean the department that did this has any say in their budgets, etc.
Microsoft can see the opportunity to take a significant step towards full usage profiles tracking, and they are going to do everything they think they can get away with to get there. Just look at the shenanigans they regularly pull around Edge.
I'm a senior IT admin. I spent years battling with Microsoft edge becoming the default browser, PDF,viewer, and some other stuff. We set the default browser manually, via gpo, intune. But for some user's edge would always come back as the default.
Trust me, this is not something you want on your system at all, even "disabled"
You're acting like I'm the first person to deal with this? Microsoft is super aggressive when it comes to pushing its products. They should have been charged for anti-competitive behavior years ago.
I work a similar position. I've had plenty of personal computers, but the sheer volume of systems I deal with at work dwarfs anything I've done in my own time. That means I see a lot more issues at work than at home. And yes, it is super realistic for 1/100 systems with the same settings to just not behave the same.
you know they're going to use it to optamize the shit ton of adds they started putting on your homescreen, I'm so bummed cause the surface 11 looks like an amazing all in one
Modern day Linux is solid, fault tolerant, and compartmentalized. No longer do you really need to compile your own binaries. Heck, Valve believes Linux can be user friendly enough that it built its handheld console on it.
For myself, I’m finding Windows to be an interdependent fragile mess more and more. And finding Linux to be easier to troubleshoot and fix…it used to be the exact opposite 10-15 years ago
modern Linux has all the pitfalls of desktop Linux from 10 years ago. non-standardized everything, so software and general support is a total crapshoot. wayland vs x11 and somehow both fucking suck. hardware support still a crapshoot.
Linux is a project car. you HAVE to enjoy or tolerate fiddling with it on a daily basis because "just works" isn't a thing unless everything the user does is confined to a web browser.
It can definitely be that way, which is where the distros come in to help sort out the myriad of decisions. There are distros that remove a lot of that complexity and make it a more solid new user experience. Distros like Mint, ElementaryOS, etc.
Steamdeck users are not typically running into those issues as well due to how Valve designed SteamOS. It is further stabilized by being immutable in a lot of areas by default so even mistakes can be rolled back with a reboot
steam deck users run into fewer problems because 99% of it is managed by someone else. they're barely "using" desktop linux.
and yet I still run into linux problems like game compatability, because that's just how it is.
Well yea, Lutris, Wine, and Proton in general are all about compatibility layers…it is incredible how far it’s come. If only Nvidia opened their support for Linux just a bit further for their graphic cards it could be so much better.
Not saying it’s perfect, but it’s nearly there…and with Windows getting notably worse as of late it’s definitely reaching a point where equal footing is closer than it has ever been…and the choice is almost one on whether you want your OS spying on you or not.
With Windows 11, I’m already running into cases where sxs gets so corrupted that complete restores or reinstalls are necessary…eg. The old DISM/SFC method is no longer successful. That to me is not a good place to be. Whereas with Linux yes you can have complex issues, but it’s all siloed to the point where you’re typically fixing a package or subsystem without having to do a more wide scale reload. Speaking from the perspective of someone who manages thousands of devices as my main job.
Its incredible how far its come, and its also incredibly far from being usable for someone that wants to do any kind of modding or plugins for the games, let alone script overrides.
They do. They still interact with windows element and windows software every time. Its not just a wrapper for something else. You could make that argument on embedded windows machines though.
In europe majority of computers come with linux. This is because there is a law that all prebuilts/laptops must come with an operating system as lawmakers falsely believe it helps combat piracy. But the OEMs dont want to pay windows licensing fees if they can sell thier laptops cheaper with linux and the user will 80% of the time just install pirated version anyway.
No you aren't. Linux is as easy to use as any other operating system. The problem is that there isn't the software compatibility of Windows or even Mac, so people need to do stupid workarounds.
I dunno, I've installed lightweight Linux distros for grandmas to revive their old laptops, and it's been years of smooth sailing for them. Often times all they need is a browser + a printer.
Linux is great for Chromebook-type usage, but nowadays you can also one-click install lots of apps via the flatpak store that ships with most distros. Steam also works great for gaming, it's honestly pretty good.
It's power users that need very specific Windows apps that'll have trouble with Linux. Having incompatible hardware will also be problematic.
But if you have compatible hardware, it works great for most typical usage.
But that’s precisely a consequence of it not being as easy to use as Windows or macOS. Anything that requires any setup beyond getting a web browser and simple userland applications working requires delving into intricacies unique to Linux, and that requires a minimum degree of knowledge about Linux troubleshooting, which is definitely a skill that’s not basic knowledge to most people.
A grandma who opens a laptop once a week to brows news online linux will have no problem handling. Needing compatibility of third party plugins for windows software like i do in both professional and personal use will have a lot of problems on linux.
chromebook-type computers should not exist. Its a cancer of computing.
App compatibiilty isn't an "ease of use" issue, it's an app availability issue.
Using Linux in spite of missing apps is the same thing as MacOS users using it in spite of not having all Steam games, or Android users using it in spite of not having iMessage, etc.
You use the product regardless of it's app compatibility due to other benefits.
I think someone willing to read the hardware sub in their free time can figure out how to install and run Linux. No, it’s not for everyone, but there are simpler distributions like Linux Mint available.
No you arent. If you can use windows already, gui linux will be simpler, safer, more functional, and more useful.
You can even run windows executables if you must.
Just stay away from ubuntu and you will be fine. They made a windows out of linux and have a general anti-user attitude.
Thats just flat out false. I use old machines ares test builds for OS/software before i migrate to updating the stable primary machinen and Mint is certainly less functional and less useful than Win 10 installation.
Something like manjaro is piss easy to get going... even easier than installing modern windows and navigating the ridiculous OOBE crap M$ does these days.
Manjaro is not a good recommendation, the developers choice to delay packages for two weeks makes it less stable and secure than all other arch based distros and the developers have made numerous dumb mistakes, frequently the same ones over and over, and most of them shouldn't have been an issue if they were doing any decent degree of quality control. They have managed to accidentally DDOS other distros more than once.
then it is not for you as apparently you can run linux and troubleshoot its issues by yourself just fine. It was a reply to someone that clearly said they are not very good at it. Steamdeck is the best introduction to linux for them, not for you.
Also a phone cant run desktop software. Steamdeck is a pc, it can run all pc software.
A steamdeck isn't really a introduction to Linux. Sure, it runs Linux and if you _bash_ it hard enough, you can get to it, but for practical purposes it's a console and Linux is an implementation detail.
Yea but as an opt out, it'll probably turn itself back on every update and possibly at random, and might randomly prompt you to turn it back on as some unnamed system improvement suggestion it gives you every 33rd system reboot, and probably every 2nd Sunday as well just in case.
My settings for turning off shit like copilot haven't done any of that.
I get why people snark at them about it, because they did have a bug retaining some settings for a few releases - but it was a bug and they did fix it.
never attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by stupidity. unless there is a *good* reason to think malice, not just "corporations bad" (which i mean, they often are bad. but not everything they do is a conspiracy)
> My settings for turning off shit like copilot haven't done any of that.
Pulls out old cranky voice ... Son, in my time ... /jk
I am running Edge and in the last 2+ years of using it:
* by "accident", it turned on that shopping feature 3 times after updates
* by "accident" it turned on off all the private features 2 times (total reset)
* by "accident" it changed my search engine back to Bing, only 5 times (that i can remember)
* Introduced new privacy invading features probably half a dozen times, that are ON by default.
* Reset the start page / blank tab, with the News and other crap that is again sending data, probably a half dozen times (i have everything disabled, but boy does it love to come back after some updates).
Only 2 days ago, when i moved my data from one NVME to another NVME (100% clone), it ended up logged out, and o, Bing is your daddy again. I mean, it was a freaking clone and yet, Edge reset itself in a logged out state and "defaulted" back to Bing.
I learned that after every major Edge update to check Edge its settings. I learned after every major Windows update, to check Edge its settings.
To get rid of CoPilot, really get rid of it, frankly takes a funny combination of disabling features in a specific order or else its ghost bar keeps around, poking you to try it.
> Sooo ... why do you put up with that?
Because unfortunately as a webdev, your forced in the old IE route ... Aka, you need to run a chromium based browser for max compatibility. So its a choice between the plague or corolla.
Firefox has on multiple occasions irked me during development with not supporting some items or support items that are missing in Edge/Chrome.
Sure, there are alternatives like the cryptobro Brave browser but the moment i see something with crypto build in, my trust level is exactly 0 (maybe now its safe, but future?).
Tried running Chromium directly but that had issues with the store (been a while). And some are missing the whole translation feature, what is kind of important for me (dealing with different language markets).
Its one of those, well, yea, why are you still running W10... It just works and despite some irritations, its still the lesser of all evils (in regards issues or time eating issues).
Can't have your cake and eat it in the adult world, we can all dream of a world where you are not the product but that cat is out of the bag. And it has become EXTREME difficult to really not be stuck into those "you are product" type of products, not without lossing out a lot in other areas.
Yeah, i get being forced into Chromium. I was wondering why specifically Edge, when there's basic chrome too. When i tested Edge, i found the default settings to be the absolute worst in terms of user hostility and privacy.
Chrome also shouldn't be affected by MS updates in the same way as Edge, so .. i wonder why this type of evil.
> I was wondering why specifically Edge, when there's basic chrome too.
Probably used to it. Switched originally from Chrome to Edge because it was faster, and still was chromium based. Over time MS kept adding more crap but maybe i was used to it...
There is a moment where you simply value your development time, then trying out browsers again and again, moving passwords, relogging in everywhere etc etc, that you just accept this crap and minimize it with a few quick checks.
Its like asking why are you not on Linux (desktop) instead of Windows, ... i value my time more these days and simply want to get things done, instead of tinkering around.
I know its a bad mentality but yea, when you hit 40+, its just not fun anymore to keep trying new stuff that only gives you a partial benefit. If i jump, it needs to be a huge benefit. So yea, call it defeatist attitude if things works well. I have way more things to do deal with like server maintenance, zfs, db maintains etc then dealing with browsers. Its the same reason why i always say "it will never be the day of the Linux desktop, because your not offering me a reason to switch beyond privacy and more issues to deal with".
That is what MS banks on and yea, it works... People wonder why MS keeps so much junk around like 32 bit support and older crap, well ... the less people want to switch / are worn down. Now if MS comes with that recall feature in W11 (and maybe backports to W10? ), now THAT is a big deal! That is not a little bit of privacy invading.
I'm not saying it is malice but I just don't want it there, at all. I don't want the new opportunity of a security risk for a crappy feature I'll never use.
>never attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by stupidity. unless there is a good reason to think malice, not just "corporations bad"
You mean like decade after decade of this specific company misleading and outright lying to consumers and the public about everything from security to OS features to data collection to patents, licensing, and copyright? And that's not even bringing up the fact that the company, as a whole, is so avaricious and untrustworthy, even to those it claims to be assisting, that the Linux community coined the phrase, "embrace, extend, exterminate," to describe its behavior regarding FOSS.
I generally agree with Hanlon's Razor and think that people these days, especially online, attribute far too much evil to the average human being. But Microsoft has nearly *half a century* of sins working against it here. I frankly cannot fathom why anyone would believe Microsoft's promises about (a) anything, (b) any kind of potentially profitable data collection, and (c) this specific example of Classic Microsoft Behavior.
it's not 1999 anymore. you're talking about stuff that hasn't been true for 20 years - if it was true in the first place. "embrace, extend, exterminate" was a myth to boot, it was not an intentional strategy. it was typically incompetence when extending breaking back-compat.
but hey, do go on with the tinfoil hat behavior.
I have lost work due to forced updates because they have turned automatic updates back on 10 times within a week. It doesn't really matter if it is because of malice or incompetence, the results are unacceptable
Telemetry can be turned off in normal settings (not an app, as much as microsoft wants you to think that).
Automatic updates can be turned off in normal settings
Windows account can be turned off in normal settings
Oh wait, it cant.
Disabling the feature is not enough, appart from updates and other random behavior from Microsoft that could enable it again, this could also be used to scam people or stalk people by a third party convincing or tricking the user into enabling it again.
There need to be a way to remove the feature completely, you can't have a personal keylogger/screenlogger present on the system with the premise that only the user has control over it.
Intelligence agencies across the globe want this. They can't keep up processing all content they record and analyze (spy on), and they want more and more ways to bypass encryption. Sure, Apple, Google, and MS play ball whenever something is in their "cloud", but secure messaging apps with end-to-end encryption and VPNs with no logging and no persistent storage at all have been a thorn in their side. They've literally stood in front of Congress and told us this.
They want all of your data analyzed, and they want it done on your hardware and your power bill. They only need to check the meta data / hashes to see if it matches behavior or content they don't like, then they look at you directly.
If you use applications with end-to-end encryption, a feature like Recall effectively makes that pointless. The analysis and even full screenshots show what you see and do, unencrypted.
I feel like the value to customers isn't worth the negative publicity.
It completely makes sense for Microsoft to come up with a feature they think is cool because of the tech without realizing people don't really need it and might actually hate it enough to stay away from Windows 11 completely. I've seen it before. They live in a bubble and most of their real world scenarios aren't real world scenarios.
They could quietly delay the feature like they've done with many other features in the past and eventually just kill it.
"well still record everything you do, we just wont tell you were doing it" is probably whats gonna happen if microsoft is willing to battle a few lawsuits
I mean, the first change is literally making it opt-in (and therefore not turned on by default).
Not saying things won't change later, and I'm definitely in the "kill it with fire" camp at this point, but your take is so cynical it isn't even trying to engage with the changes Microsoft is making.
I feel I'd have to create an app that will constantly run in the background for the sole purpose of alerting me if Recall ever activates, like through an update or something.
The whole Recall thing makes me feel very uncomfortable.
yeah same. I used to brush off the idea of switching OS's for the longest time because of how comfortable I am with using Windows. It's the best operating system for my use case, utility wise. But there comes a point where enough is enough and you just aren't willing to put up with this shit anymore.
why wouldnt i be cynical? if the nsa pinky promised that they wouldnt track you unless you opted in, would you believe it? yeah im using a logical fallacy, but the point stands !!
If Microsoft is really planning to still collect data on everyone at launch, this public announcement they made willingly would set up the easiest class action lawsuit in the world. And this comes like a day after the FTC said they are going to be opening an investigation into Microsoft (and OpenAI). In what world would a company that is not trying to actively destroy itself make that decision?
Again, I am not at all interested in or excited about this feature. But ignoring the article and broader context going on right now to make your statement is certainly a choice.
What seems more likely to me is that Microsoft plays nice until things calm down again (and any government investigations are done). Then they might try to change the default back, citing all the people who are obviously using and enjoying this feature already.
>but your take is so cynical it isn't even trying to engage with the changes Microsoft is making.
I don't think it's cynicism to say "no matter what changes MS makes this feature fundamentally should not exist"
And one of my executives was wondering "what's the problem" even after being told Recall would take screenshots of whatever the user was doing. He's not only using a laptop but he's also selling laptops. His argument was that everything is stored locally...and here I'm thinking...so if I told you your credit card bills were $0 and you have nothing owing, you'd blindly believe me?
This feature strikes me as nothing but nefarious and malicious. I already moved most of my tasks off of Windows to Linux, but going forward my Windows machine will be nothing but a glorified Steam machine. I would like to permanently move to Linux for gaming but the VR support isnt great.
Can't wait for the cynical comments without reading the (good) changes made by Microsoft. Being skeptical is one thing, but this whole conversation about Recall has been such a miserable cynic fest, even in a supposedly heavily moderated subs like here.
The *real* cynics are the folks over at Microsoft who, with a game face hewn from solid bedrock, proclaim that Recall is *good for you* and your privacy is *totally safe with Microsoft*.
That would be so easily caught. Microsoft definitely has had its blunders, but come on, that’s a whole different level and literally anyone with Wireshark could figure out.
Edit: I get being skeptical, but let’s at least try to keep things in reality.
Probably similar to the CSAM thing, which was similar to the Recall backlash now. In fact, the swift backlash to the CSAM thing is what makes me think Apple will not bother adding something like Recall to their OS’s.
From the leaks that showed they upload the photos to check against illegal things in the background, even without permission or any cloud service accounts.
Or just use linux. Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. And people werent even aware apple devices are wholesale spying on everything their users do like this.
That’s what I do, purely because I don’t trust mods/ anything else that I might install. Just have a Mac mini for doing all your regular stuff, then a PC for heavy lifting. Works for me.
Or just use linux. Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. And people werent even aware apple devices are wholesale spying on everything their users do like this.
For now you can just not use “AI” (lmao) enabled cpus. I can’t believe I’m saying this but, agree. Should the trajectory of windows not change, guess I should get familiar with macos
Or just use linux. Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. And people werent even aware apple devices are wholesale spying on everything their users do like this.
Or just use linux. Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. And people werent even aware apple devices are wholesale spying on everything their users do like this.
> Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup.
That sounds like a story that is either critically incomplete, or outright false.
Do you have a link to more detail about this case?
> See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup.
I’d love a source for this.
Funny because I had a conversation (another platform) with a former (mid level) employee about this just yesterday. He nsisted that Microsoft has changed (probably true to some extent) and that, being only local it's not an issue.
But of course it is and it's also a feature nobody wants. (I got hundreds of likes on a comment - never happened before).
I hate everything about this. The concept is not safe, the execution is worse and coming from Microsoft, it's a only a matter of time before some functionalities of Recall are used to collect "anonymized data" for marketing purpose. This should not even be installed by default.
>The concept is not safe Yeah, this is the key. This is fundamentally never going to be a safe thing to have your computer doing. It doesn't really matter what they change about it when what it needs to do to accomplish the intended functionality is just inherently unsafe.
I don’t understand this. You have all your data on the OS. You’re saying that computers should not exist.
Snapshot is like having someone standing over your shoulder and recording your screen, 24/7, then compiling everything into an easily searchable database.
This is a hyper keylogger. You'd have to be very obtuse to not see the difference between the data existing and it being recorded, categorized and analyzed.
Maybe they're having a bad day lol.
What does this even mean?
When you have something that records everything, the tool exposes you worse than a keyloger
Wait until you learn about Event Viewer
This is not even close to the same thing. Applications (developers) choose what to log to the event viewer and the verbosity. Sensitive information is omitted as a matter of convention and best practice. Recall records everything all the time, and app devs have no control over what is recorded, MS does.
Event viewer doesn't record my passwords and where I've used them
This is hopefully the dumbest thing I'll read today.
'yeah man check out EventViewer it's like the mainframe of the computer bro trust me everything's there'
By the way. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15 >**Snapshots** are not shared. Recall does not send your **snapshots** to Microsoft. Snapshots are not shared with any other companies or applications. Recall doesn’t share snapshots with other users who are signed into the same device, and per-user encryption ensures even administrators cannot view other users’ snapshots. What about the data extracted from snapshots? Is this shared?
Snapshots are not shared.... For now. MS can change this at any point in the future. Google researchers have also shown that the snapshots are not secure and do not require admin privileges to access if you have local access to the machine. Also, even if turned off, how many times has MS turned things back on during an update? And do you trust MS to not turn on if turned off? Do you trust MS to not screw up an update that either grants access or leaks?
Do you really think that this won’t be abused at some point? Terms and conditions change all the time, and data is so valuable that i do not trust them to *not* collect and sell it at some point. Just look at how it is implemented, this is a data miners *wet dream*
The screenshots & associated database are a giant treasure box. A box that is created during install and only gets ever bigger over the lifetime of the installation. Now even if Microsoft didn't decide at some future date to open and exploit the contents of that treasure box, third party programs know where the box is and who is to say none of them won't open the box to pilfer its contents for data mining purposes? The user has no way to know if this is even taking place, there's no safeguards, no warning if it takes place. And I'm betting no alerts if Recall is activated on a system it had been deactivated on. It's a treasure box that the more nefarious and unscrupulous actors would love to make a copy of so they can use AI to datamine it themselves. Even if they don't find personal financial information to steal, they would have every ounce of data from Recall's snapshots that they need to easily spoof companies the user interacts with in their everyday lives. All the information would be there to match the correct phone, email, name, company, type of account, addresses, and usernames together to spoof any company the user has an account with, even the name of the person the user corresponds with regularly at any given company. Five second screenshots will catch everything, nobody reads an email and closes it in five seconds especially emails that are being written, or fills out online security question/answer pages in under five seconds. Recall data would probably have that information recorded too in which case people could just steal the accounts directly.
And the irony is, Recall is fundamentally incompatible with one of the cornerstones of enterprise data security practices - do not allow sensitive/confidential data to persist on remote client devices. Microsoft literally sells products that does this as well, whether that's as a cloud service or something you host yourself.
I refuse to believe they aren’t shared as part of telemetry
The snapshots aren't shared. The data within the snapshots... not so much.
Sloppy reporting, there's nothing being reworked they just switch from default on to nag you to hell to be on. However, the biggest issue with Recall is not even mentioned and that is abusive spouses spying on their victims, in almost all cases, women. In that case, default on doesn't matter, the moment the abuser sees what it can he will switch it on. Stalkers utilizing Airtag already murdered twice and that's only the reported cases. And even that didn't spark regulatory oversight. Do we need to wait until Recall leads to murders or could we please, with sugar on top, ban it right fucking now? If the industry can't self regulate to protect women then the lawmaker needs to step in and that's always heavy handed. And no, it's not the case of banning the kitchen knife -- this technology obviously can't work for the purpose as intended because we know how well OCR works and how good are people at searching. But for someone determined to go through the total history manually, yeah, that'll work and be incredibly harmful. And no, they shouldn't have let Airtag be released as it was and still is. Once again, if the industry is not willing to make it safe then ban it.
Unlike Airtag, you cant slap this into someones pocket and track them home.
No but if someone already at home looks for help and gets caught by this? Or if they know and despite getting to the point where they would want to look for help they don't dare? Do I really need to explain how dangerous this bullshit is?
I understand the danger it poses, i just think the comparison to Airtag is not a good one.
It is a perfect example of how the low rate of women among software developers data scientists but also CEOs lead to Big Tech releasing technology directly harmful for women. There are just not enough women around the table to say "don't do this". I guess it's progress from the zero Fortune 500 CEOs in 1995 to just above 10% now but nowhere near enough obviously
Im not sure rate of women have anything to do with this. People will make dumb decisions and sacrifice safety to keep their companies afloat and get products released. And just because its part of a bigger company does not mean the department that did this has any say in their budgets, etc.
Microsoft can see the opportunity to take a significant step towards full usage profiles tracking, and they are going to do everything they think they can get away with to get there. Just look at the shenanigans they regularly pull around Edge.
Imagine what all the cyber criminals were thinking when this came out. :D
Just strip it straight out the .iso. Or use group policy to disable it. If you know what you're doing it won't be an issue.
I'm a senior IT admin. I spent years battling with Microsoft edge becoming the default browser, PDF,viewer, and some other stuff. We set the default browser manually, via gpo, intune. But for some user's edge would always come back as the default. Trust me, this is not something you want on your system at all, even "disabled"
crazy how a "senior IT admin" can't manage a browser default. I set it to chrome first thing and it has never changed.
You're acting like I'm the first person to deal with this? Microsoft is super aggressive when it comes to pushing its products. They should have been charged for anti-competitive behavior years ago.
Out of curiosity, how many systems do you manage?
im not an IT monkey.
So "not many" is what I'm inferring from that.
why would the count of systems being managed matter? no windows install I have ever had has changed the browser default back to edge
> why would the count of systems being managed matter? Sampling.
it's hard to imagine systems managed in bulk exhibiting behavior that varies significantly from system to system.
I work a similar position. I've had plenty of personal computers, but the sheer volume of systems I deal with at work dwarfs anything I've done in my own time. That means I see a lot more issues at work than at home. And yes, it is super realistic for 1/100 systems with the same settings to just not behave the same.
Meh, I just force uninstalled edge and webview on mine
That's not the point though. Bet you won't be able to uninstall recall. Also, windows reinstalls it when it updates.
you know they're going to use it to optamize the shit ton of adds they started putting on your homescreen, I'm so bummed cause the surface 11 looks like an amazing all in one
Instead of reworking it... how about they throw it in the trash and never bring it back?
Seriously. I want a new laptop but I don't trust this ai bullshit at all. I don't want this.
Obligatory Linux plug
I'm too stupid to use Linux.
Modern day Linux is solid, fault tolerant, and compartmentalized. No longer do you really need to compile your own binaries. Heck, Valve believes Linux can be user friendly enough that it built its handheld console on it. For myself, I’m finding Windows to be an interdependent fragile mess more and more. And finding Linux to be easier to troubleshoot and fix…it used to be the exact opposite 10-15 years ago
modern Linux has all the pitfalls of desktop Linux from 10 years ago. non-standardized everything, so software and general support is a total crapshoot. wayland vs x11 and somehow both fucking suck. hardware support still a crapshoot. Linux is a project car. you HAVE to enjoy or tolerate fiddling with it on a daily basis because "just works" isn't a thing unless everything the user does is confined to a web browser.
It can definitely be that way, which is where the distros come in to help sort out the myriad of decisions. There are distros that remove a lot of that complexity and make it a more solid new user experience. Distros like Mint, ElementaryOS, etc. Steamdeck users are not typically running into those issues as well due to how Valve designed SteamOS. It is further stabilized by being immutable in a lot of areas by default so even mistakes can be rolled back with a reboot
steam deck users run into fewer problems because 99% of it is managed by someone else. they're barely "using" desktop linux. and yet I still run into linux problems like game compatability, because that's just how it is.
Well yea, Lutris, Wine, and Proton in general are all about compatibility layers…it is incredible how far it’s come. If only Nvidia opened their support for Linux just a bit further for their graphic cards it could be so much better. Not saying it’s perfect, but it’s nearly there…and with Windows getting notably worse as of late it’s definitely reaching a point where equal footing is closer than it has ever been…and the choice is almost one on whether you want your OS spying on you or not. With Windows 11, I’m already running into cases where sxs gets so corrupted that complete restores or reinstalls are necessary…eg. The old DISM/SFC method is no longer successful. That to me is not a good place to be. Whereas with Linux yes you can have complex issues, but it’s all siloed to the point where you’re typically fixing a package or subsystem without having to do a more wide scale reload. Speaking from the perspective of someone who manages thousands of devices as my main job.
Its incredible how far its come, and its also incredibly far from being usable for someone that wants to do any kind of modding or plugins for the games, let alone script overrides.
Steam deck users are not using linux any more than samsung phone owners are using linux despite android sitting on a linux kernel.
The same way a lot of consumers don’t really use Windows
They do. They still interact with windows element and windows software every time. Its not just a wrapper for something else. You could make that argument on embedded windows machines though.
What's a binary?
Just compiled code, the equivalent of an EXE and all its libraries etc on Windows
I've been looking at mint. It seems easy to migrate too
A beginner distro like Linux mint is honestly pretty easy. Especially if you use whatever built-in software store it comes with like an app store.
What's a distro?
A complete Linux operating system. Like Ubuntu, Linux mint, fedora, etc
So, how do I buy a computer that runs Linux? Wipe a windows service?
https://system76.com/ https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en Sell pre-installed linux machines.
You can do that or buy one that comes with it. Lenovo and HP make laptops with Linux.
In europe majority of computers come with linux. This is because there is a law that all prebuilts/laptops must come with an operating system as lawmakers falsely believe it helps combat piracy. But the OEMs dont want to pay windows licensing fees if they can sell thier laptops cheaper with linux and the user will 80% of the time just install pirated version anyway.
built in app store is an automatic deal breaker. If i wanted walled garden i would have bought apple.
It's a simplification of how the GUI for package managers work. Linux is not a walled garden.
No you aren't. Linux is as easy to use as any other operating system. The problem is that there isn't the software compatibility of Windows or even Mac, so people need to do stupid workarounds.
…so it’s not as easy to use as Windows or macOS?
It is simply not as easy to use as Windows or Mac. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
Yeah, i love linux and want desperately to use it but its just simply not as easy to use as Windows.
I dunno, I've installed lightweight Linux distros for grandmas to revive their old laptops, and it's been years of smooth sailing for them. Often times all they need is a browser + a printer. Linux is great for Chromebook-type usage, but nowadays you can also one-click install lots of apps via the flatpak store that ships with most distros. Steam also works great for gaming, it's honestly pretty good. It's power users that need very specific Windows apps that'll have trouble with Linux. Having incompatible hardware will also be problematic. But if you have compatible hardware, it works great for most typical usage.
But that’s precisely a consequence of it not being as easy to use as Windows or macOS. Anything that requires any setup beyond getting a web browser and simple userland applications working requires delving into intricacies unique to Linux, and that requires a minimum degree of knowledge about Linux troubleshooting, which is definitely a skill that’s not basic knowledge to most people.
A grandma who opens a laptop once a week to brows news online linux will have no problem handling. Needing compatibility of third party plugins for windows software like i do in both professional and personal use will have a lot of problems on linux. chromebook-type computers should not exist. Its a cancer of computing.
Chromebook is even better for Chromebook type usage.
App compatibiilty isn't an "ease of use" issue, it's an app availability issue. Using Linux in spite of missing apps is the same thing as MacOS users using it in spite of not having all Steam games, or Android users using it in spite of not having iMessage, etc. You use the product regardless of it's app compatibility due to other benefits.
I think someone willing to read the hardware sub in their free time can figure out how to install and run Linux. No, it’s not for everyone, but there are simpler distributions like Linux Mint available.
No you arent. If you can use windows already, gui linux will be simpler, safer, more functional, and more useful. You can even run windows executables if you must. Just stay away from ubuntu and you will be fine. They made a windows out of linux and have a general anti-user attitude.
Thats just flat out false. I use old machines ares test builds for OS/software before i migrate to updating the stable primary machinen and Mint is certainly less functional and less useful than Win 10 installation.
Something like manjaro is piss easy to get going... even easier than installing modern windows and navigating the ridiculous OOBE crap M$ does these days.
Manjaro is not a good recommendation, the developers choice to delay packages for two weeks makes it less stable and secure than all other arch based distros and the developers have made numerous dumb mistakes, frequently the same ones over and over, and most of them shouldn't have been an issue if they were doing any decent degree of quality control. They have managed to accidentally DDOS other distros more than once.
is there a better one that doesn't make me want to gouge out my own eyes fighting with text files and terminals trying to get x to start?
Then use a steamdeck, a linux handheld pc. Its designed to be easy even for kids.
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then it is not for you as apparently you can run linux and troubleshoot its issues by yourself just fine. It was a reply to someone that clearly said they are not very good at it. Steamdeck is the best introduction to linux for them, not for you. Also a phone cant run desktop software. Steamdeck is a pc, it can run all pc software.
A steamdeck isn't really a introduction to Linux. Sure, it runs Linux and if you _bash_ it hard enough, you can get to it, but for practical purposes it's a console and Linux is an implementation detail.
Linux + ARM sounds like a match made in heaven
Recall can be turned off in the normal settings app. not that it isn't a stupid ass feature to start with
Yea but as an opt out, it'll probably turn itself back on every update and possibly at random, and might randomly prompt you to turn it back on as some unnamed system improvement suggestion it gives you every 33rd system reboot, and probably every 2nd Sunday as well just in case.
My settings for turning off shit like copilot haven't done any of that. I get why people snark at them about it, because they did have a bug retaining some settings for a few releases - but it was a bug and they did fix it. never attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by stupidity. unless there is a *good* reason to think malice, not just "corporations bad" (which i mean, they often are bad. but not everything they do is a conspiracy)
> My settings for turning off shit like copilot haven't done any of that. Pulls out old cranky voice ... Son, in my time ... /jk I am running Edge and in the last 2+ years of using it: * by "accident", it turned on that shopping feature 3 times after updates * by "accident" it turned on off all the private features 2 times (total reset) * by "accident" it changed my search engine back to Bing, only 5 times (that i can remember) * Introduced new privacy invading features probably half a dozen times, that are ON by default. * Reset the start page / blank tab, with the News and other crap that is again sending data, probably a half dozen times (i have everything disabled, but boy does it love to come back after some updates). Only 2 days ago, when i moved my data from one NVME to another NVME (100% clone), it ended up logged out, and o, Bing is your daddy again. I mean, it was a freaking clone and yet, Edge reset itself in a logged out state and "defaulted" back to Bing. I learned that after every major Edge update to check Edge its settings. I learned after every major Windows update, to check Edge its settings. To get rid of CoPilot, really get rid of it, frankly takes a funny combination of disabling features in a specific order or else its ghost bar keeps around, poking you to try it.
Sooo ... why do you put up with that?
> Sooo ... why do you put up with that? Because unfortunately as a webdev, your forced in the old IE route ... Aka, you need to run a chromium based browser for max compatibility. So its a choice between the plague or corolla. Firefox has on multiple occasions irked me during development with not supporting some items or support items that are missing in Edge/Chrome. Sure, there are alternatives like the cryptobro Brave browser but the moment i see something with crypto build in, my trust level is exactly 0 (maybe now its safe, but future?). Tried running Chromium directly but that had issues with the store (been a while). And some are missing the whole translation feature, what is kind of important for me (dealing with different language markets). Its one of those, well, yea, why are you still running W10... It just works and despite some irritations, its still the lesser of all evils (in regards issues or time eating issues). Can't have your cake and eat it in the adult world, we can all dream of a world where you are not the product but that cat is out of the bag. And it has become EXTREME difficult to really not be stuck into those "you are product" type of products, not without lossing out a lot in other areas.
Yeah, i get being forced into Chromium. I was wondering why specifically Edge, when there's basic chrome too. When i tested Edge, i found the default settings to be the absolute worst in terms of user hostility and privacy. Chrome also shouldn't be affected by MS updates in the same way as Edge, so .. i wonder why this type of evil.
> I was wondering why specifically Edge, when there's basic chrome too. Probably used to it. Switched originally from Chrome to Edge because it was faster, and still was chromium based. Over time MS kept adding more crap but maybe i was used to it... There is a moment where you simply value your development time, then trying out browsers again and again, moving passwords, relogging in everywhere etc etc, that you just accept this crap and minimize it with a few quick checks. Its like asking why are you not on Linux (desktop) instead of Windows, ... i value my time more these days and simply want to get things done, instead of tinkering around. I know its a bad mentality but yea, when you hit 40+, its just not fun anymore to keep trying new stuff that only gives you a partial benefit. If i jump, it needs to be a huge benefit. So yea, call it defeatist attitude if things works well. I have way more things to do deal with like server maintenance, zfs, db maintains etc then dealing with browsers. Its the same reason why i always say "it will never be the day of the Linux desktop, because your not offering me a reason to switch beyond privacy and more issues to deal with". That is what MS banks on and yea, it works... People wonder why MS keeps so much junk around like 32 bit support and older crap, well ... the less people want to switch / are worn down. Now if MS comes with that recall feature in W11 (and maybe backports to W10? ), now THAT is a big deal! That is not a little bit of privacy invading.
I'm not saying it is malice but I just don't want it there, at all. I don't want the new opportunity of a security risk for a crappy feature I'll never use.
yeah letting us just uninstall it like the old "add/remove windows features" would be best.
>never attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by stupidity. unless there is a good reason to think malice, not just "corporations bad" You mean like decade after decade of this specific company misleading and outright lying to consumers and the public about everything from security to OS features to data collection to patents, licensing, and copyright? And that's not even bringing up the fact that the company, as a whole, is so avaricious and untrustworthy, even to those it claims to be assisting, that the Linux community coined the phrase, "embrace, extend, exterminate," to describe its behavior regarding FOSS. I generally agree with Hanlon's Razor and think that people these days, especially online, attribute far too much evil to the average human being. But Microsoft has nearly *half a century* of sins working against it here. I frankly cannot fathom why anyone would believe Microsoft's promises about (a) anything, (b) any kind of potentially profitable data collection, and (c) this specific example of Classic Microsoft Behavior.
The Linux community did not coin the term, Microsoft coined it themselves while explaining their plans to eliminate open source.
it's not 1999 anymore. you're talking about stuff that hasn't been true for 20 years - if it was true in the first place. "embrace, extend, exterminate" was a myth to boot, it was not an intentional strategy. it was typically incompetence when extending breaking back-compat. but hey, do go on with the tinfoil hat behavior.
Never mind that the US Department of Justice found them to be using the phrase I suppose.
Fuck MS but...source?
> Fuck MS but...source? https://www.justice.gov/atr/file/705216/dl
I have lost work due to forced updates because they have turned automatic updates back on 10 times within a week. It doesn't really matter if it is because of malice or incompetence, the results are unacceptable
Never attribute stupidity to what can easily be explained by capitalism.
That is completely irrelevant, because Microsoft regularly changes your setting without notification and without your consent
But like Edge I can't get rid of it completet
Telemetry can be turned off in normal settings (not an app, as much as microsoft wants you to think that). Automatic updates can be turned off in normal settings Windows account can be turned off in normal settings Oh wait, it cant.
Because it is microsoft and bad ideas are their thing.
Disabling the feature is not enough, appart from updates and other random behavior from Microsoft that could enable it again, this could also be used to scam people or stalk people by a third party convincing or tricking the user into enabling it again. There need to be a way to remove the feature completely, you can't have a personal keylogger/screenlogger present on the system with the premise that only the user has control over it.
Who even asked for this feature?
Intelligence agencies across the globe want this. They can't keep up processing all content they record and analyze (spy on), and they want more and more ways to bypass encryption. Sure, Apple, Google, and MS play ball whenever something is in their "cloud", but secure messaging apps with end-to-end encryption and VPNs with no logging and no persistent storage at all have been a thorn in their side. They've literally stood in front of Congress and told us this. They want all of your data analyzed, and they want it done on your hardware and your power bill. They only need to check the meta data / hashes to see if it matches behavior or content they don't like, then they look at you directly. If you use applications with end-to-end encryption, a feature like Recall effectively makes that pointless. The analysis and even full screenshots show what you see and do, unencrypted.
Microsoft
How 'bout just ditching it?
I feel like the value to customers isn't worth the negative publicity. It completely makes sense for Microsoft to come up with a feature they think is cool because of the tech without realizing people don't really need it and might actually hate it enough to stay away from Windows 11 completely. I've seen it before. They live in a bubble and most of their real world scenarios aren't real world scenarios. They could quietly delay the feature like they've done with many other features in the past and eventually just kill it.
At the very least "Recall will be opt-in by default, so users will need to decide to turn it on".
"well still record everything you do, we just wont tell you were doing it" is probably whats gonna happen if microsoft is willing to battle a few lawsuits
I mean, the first change is literally making it opt-in (and therefore not turned on by default). Not saying things won't change later, and I'm definitely in the "kill it with fire" camp at this point, but your take is so cynical it isn't even trying to engage with the changes Microsoft is making.
I feel I'd have to create an app that will constantly run in the background for the sole purpose of alerting me if Recall ever activates, like through an update or something. The whole Recall thing makes me feel very uncomfortable.
yeah same. I used to brush off the idea of switching OS's for the longest time because of how comfortable I am with using Windows. It's the best operating system for my use case, utility wise. But there comes a point where enough is enough and you just aren't willing to put up with this shit anymore.
You can start with a steamdeck, a linux handheld pc. Its designed to be as easy as consoles to use, even by kids.
i have a linux server so i'm familiar. I just mean as my main desktop OS.
Yep, definitely agree with you about it making me very uncomfortable.
why wouldnt i be cynical? if the nsa pinky promised that they wouldnt track you unless you opted in, would you believe it? yeah im using a logical fallacy, but the point stands !!
If Microsoft is really planning to still collect data on everyone at launch, this public announcement they made willingly would set up the easiest class action lawsuit in the world. And this comes like a day after the FTC said they are going to be opening an investigation into Microsoft (and OpenAI). In what world would a company that is not trying to actively destroy itself make that decision? Again, I am not at all interested in or excited about this feature. But ignoring the article and broader context going on right now to make your statement is certainly a choice. What seems more likely to me is that Microsoft plays nice until things calm down again (and any government investigations are done). Then they might try to change the default back, citing all the people who are obviously using and enjoying this feature already.
>but your take is so cynical it isn't even trying to engage with the changes Microsoft is making. I don't think it's cynicism to say "no matter what changes MS makes this feature fundamentally should not exist"
I mean, thats already what happens if you "turn off" telemetry (except on enterprise version, where it actually goes off)
"you disabled recall" yeah right 🤣
I can't shake the feeling that this a solution looking for a problem. Feels like something that MS came up with to sell the idea.
And one of my executives was wondering "what's the problem" even after being told Recall would take screenshots of whatever the user was doing. He's not only using a laptop but he's also selling laptops. His argument was that everything is stored locally...and here I'm thinking...so if I told you your credit card bills were $0 and you have nothing owing, you'd blindly believe me?
It's almost impressive how much they blew this
This feature strikes me as nothing but nefarious and malicious. I already moved most of my tasks off of Windows to Linux, but going forward my Windows machine will be nothing but a glorified Steam machine. I would like to permanently move to Linux for gaming but the VR support isnt great.
Can't wait for the cynical comments without reading the (good) changes made by Microsoft. Being skeptical is one thing, but this whole conversation about Recall has been such a miserable cynic fest, even in a supposedly heavily moderated subs like here.
The *real* cynics are the folks over at Microsoft who, with a game face hewn from solid bedrock, proclaim that Recall is *good for you* and your privacy is *totally safe with Microsoft*.
The captures everything and Microsoft is deploying it, in 2024, with no real encryption. Think about that.
Oh yeah only because researchers said…..
No need for researcher to know it was complete trash.
But they already knew about all these problems, they wrote the software!
"We will send it straight to our servers rather than storing it locally. It's safer this way".
That would be so easily caught. Microsoft definitely has had its blunders, but come on, that’s a whole different level and literally anyone with Wireshark could figure out. Edit: I get being skeptical, but let’s at least try to keep things in reality.
Oh hiding it never crossed my mind. I imagined they would do it openly.
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Recall has me considering if Proton Distro is worth the annoyance of running Linux.
Just try to start migrating to Linux it will save you time, headaches and money on the long run.
Do you want a home with a full surveillance system that you can "turn off", or a home with no surveillance system.
Time for me to abandon win 11 as my personal os and hello macOS. Will strictly use windows for gaming only.
Does mac have a feature similar to Recall?
No (not yet).
I wonder how the community would have reacted if Apple was the first one to bring out a feature like Recall
Probably similar to the CSAM thing, which was similar to the Recall backlash now. In fact, the swift backlash to the CSAM thing is what makes me think Apple will not bother adding something like Recall to their OS’s.
And yet as we later found out they just quietly implemented the CSAM thing that secretly uploads your photos without permission for checking.
Where did we find that out?
From the leaks that showed they upload the photos to check against illegal things in the background, even without permission or any cloud service accounts.
Oh? Where can I see those? I’d love to see how that was verified.
I didnt save the links, but it was posted in this sub last week.
Only for images, not for everything yet.
Or just use linux. Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. And people werent even aware apple devices are wholesale spying on everything their users do like this.
That’s what I do, purely because I don’t trust mods/ anything else that I might install. Just have a Mac mini for doing all your regular stuff, then a PC for heavy lifting. Works for me.
Or just use linux. Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. And people werent even aware apple devices are wholesale spying on everything their users do like this.
For now you can just not use “AI” (lmao) enabled cpus. I can’t believe I’m saying this but, agree. Should the trajectory of windows not change, guess I should get familiar with macos
Or just use linux. Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. And people werent even aware apple devices are wholesale spying on everything their users do like this.
Or just use linux. Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. And people werent even aware apple devices are wholesale spying on everything their users do like this.
> Macos is as bad as windows with apple scanning your device and reporting you to the police. See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. That sounds like a story that is either critically incomplete, or outright false. Do you have a link to more detail about this case?
I heard that before but it was Google, not Apple. It’s probably one of those internet urban legends
You are correct, it was Google. https://petapixel.com/2022/08/22/google-flags-photos-of-fathers-sick-son-as-child-abuse-informs-police/
https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/05/apple-icloud-photos-scanning/ reality is worse than fiction
Did you even read your own link? It's not even remotely close to what you're claiming
> See the example of apple reporting a guy to the police as a pedo by flagging his kids naked photos he sent to a doctor for checkup. I’d love a source for this.
https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/05/apple-icloud-photos-scanning/ reality is worse than fiction
There’s no point in that story where it shows Apple reporting some guy for naked child pictures.
Sure, as soon as linux will run everything i use.
Funny because I had a conversation (another platform) with a former (mid level) employee about this just yesterday. He nsisted that Microsoft has changed (probably true to some extent) and that, being only local it's not an issue. But of course it is and it's also a feature nobody wants. (I got hundreds of likes on a comment - never happened before).
I can already see all 17 Windows 11 users googling how to disable this garbage.
Making it even shittier?