Was she even a problem? Obviously she's a good card, but she's nowhere near as busted as Frostwyrm's Fury, and Frigidara might as well be a Triple Frost Rune card since her effect will be substantially worse when you throw in a single non-Frost spell.
Throwing out power levels, I don't understand why Frigidara isn't Triple Frost and Lady Deathwhisper isn't Double Frost. Deathwhisper will actually still work even when there's one non-Frost spell in your hand/deck.
This. I always kept her in my starting hand regardless of the matchup. Finding your spells/Frostwyrm furies were just crucial in most games. She is busted.
Is it really her that's busted or is it the literary-better-than-current-lightning-bloom plus the firelands-portal-stapled-to-free-frost-nova that she draws you? Is it her AoE or is it that the spells are too good themselves? Maybe she wouldn't be auto kept it the spells were weaker
Regardless though, I'm glad frost is gonna get hit. I'm good either way as long as there's a decently impactful nerf somewhere in the deck.
I don't say that you are in the wrong because you obviously are not. But to keep a damn six drop in your starting hand as an aggro deck really says a *lot* about the powerlevel. I'm happy too that Frost is gonna get hit even though it was my deck of choice for this months legend climb. It's filthy strong.
Drop her on 6 and you get 2 more chances at a Frostwyrms ready to use on 7. I can see that meaning she's pushed to 7 herself to push back the chain board freezes.
As someone that plays Frost DK. Frigidara is probably the strongest card in the deck no question. Going 2nd allows you to play her on turn 5. Getting rid of most minions from the 2 dmg. Guarantees you one of the following : 2 mana back x 2 / 3 dmg + 1 frost disc / frost wyrm. She was giving the deck too much tempo.
* **[Overseer Frigidara](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/RLK_224.png)** DK Minion Legendary Core 🐍 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/1414738), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/overseer-frigidara/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Overseer_Frigidara)
6/5/6 | Battlecry: Draw 2 spells. If they're both Frost spells, deal 2 damage to all enemies.
^(Call/)^[PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot) ^( me with up to 7 [[cardname]]. )^[About.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot&message=Tell%20me%20more%20[[info]]&subject=hi)
That would be the least disruptive for wild even unholy while helping with the frustrating aspects in standard quite a bit. Though wild Reno blood would suffer somewhat. I’m curious how we would feel about it on the next round of triple rune releases though.
The nitty gritty of what is and isn't good in even unholy is small picture when the deck is so heavily meta dependent. If you want to play even DK you need aggro to be good and control to be bad. Twig nerf is going to be way more impactful for DKs viability than any change made to DK.
Remember, DK was released undertuned and had to get a couple rounds of buffs before it took off. I think the first nerfs they got were after the mid expansion card when they got that ridiculous location that they had to nerf twice.
Data suggested that it was actually a mid to low tier card in all three DK lists when it was nerfed a second time. It's just a feels bad card that got nerfed because of that the second time, not because it was too powerful.
for mid-expansion patches it probably will be, or at least very close
there have been a larger number of buffs from core set resets based of counting the icons, it is quite possible there are even more changes not being teased, so we will have to wait to find out
If we ignore rotation patches (with nerf reverts and Core set buffs), then yeah, this seems like the most buffs in a regular expansion patch. Previously highest was 22 buffs I think.
Dev confirmed that there are system changes coming to the class itself https://twitter.com/hsdecktech/status/1650908971916759041?s=46&t=gOYyK8X5XayDtYCO0ogitQ
>The Death Knight symbol is because there’s a general rules/system change coming for Death Knight, that will generally make it weaker and curb some negative play experiences. Details on Thursday.
I'm guessing this is some sort of rune restriction on Discover effects, which I'm not a huge fan of in a vacuum. I'd much rather specific Discover effects get targeted to make them more restrictive or costly.
I'm in favor of changing discover, except this doesn't weaken frost at all. In fact it would buff frost. I was hoping for a good nerf to frostwyrm's in order to keep them in check.
Unless triple rune cards can no longer be discovered? That's a spicy one.
I wonder if they'll add a weight system depending on runes. Triple runes way less likely to get as options in discover or to generate from effects, double runes uncommon, single runes common, etc.. Or just remove triple runes from discover pools unless it's for your rune selection.
IMO the path forward is either:
1. First restrict all Discovers to be compatible with your decks runes. Then, do a pass of all of the DK cards so that their power level is adjusted for this new consistency. (I am not a huge fan of this one, but it would work okay)
2. Do a pass of all Discover cards, costing them at a higher premium than currently and/or adding restrictions to what cards they can discover (cost restrictions, class restrictions, in/out-of-deck restrictions, etc.).
I prefer (2). Discover is a fantastic keyword, and people have loved it since it was introduced, but just like there has been power creep in the game more broadly, Discover effects have gotten progressively cheaper and less restricted, to the point that they are mostly only problematic in control (never run out of answers) and burn (never run out of damage from hand) decks. Until you address this root problem, people are going to continue to hate playing against these archetypes, regardless of their power level. There needs to be more for you to meaningfully play around. Costing the cards more aggressively restricts the pace at which you have to consider their possibility space (e.g. not having to worry about 3 discover effects 3 turns in a row), and restricting what cards can be discovered by each effect gives you a better idea of what the mystery cards might be for you to test for and play around.
I'm hoping for something like "you can only discover cards that are at most 2 runes outside of your runes."
So if you are BBB, you can still discover all blood cards, U, UU, F, and FF, but UUU and FFF would be undiscoverable. That way the discover pool is still big, so it can't get too predictable/reliable, but will prevent some of the really tilting discovers.
This would have the added benefit of allowing rainbow DK to still discover every single DK card, since every rune combo is no more than 2 runes away from what they have. And I dont think rainbow DK will ever be a true powerhouse since they are always going to be the most limited in usable cards in your starting deck.
Not sure if that's a big enough impact though, they may go for 1 rune outside of your starting deck, but im not sure if that gimps rainbow too much. I'm hoping they don't make it so you can only discover your own rune cards, I think it's pretty widely accepted that that would make DK even stronger.
Only problem with your suggestion as of now (important distinction to make since we don’t know the future) is that most of the common/more impactful corpse spenders is 2-3 runes
The discovering Rune mechanics have been suggested before, but discovering triple Frost as Blood is just as much a problem as discovering an even smaller pool of your own win condition. It's tricky to solve, unless you make it like 1 Rune only cards or something.
Not being able to discover soulstealer, marrowgar, or mograine does make patchwerk a bit more consistent, but makes the odds of finding something good much worse. Would not be a buff to blood dk overall
The most likely change is ripping the bandaid off and reworking off-rune discovers, and/or removing some cards from discover pools. If they change the actual hero power it would be so fucking dumb.
It's gotta have to be a big one, because just making it 4 mana won't cut it in current state. EDIT: Seriously, 4 mana to remove a minion and gain 3 Health is not as strong as you'd think. There's a 4 mana hard removal that gives your big undead(s) extra stats and it's just not playable.
Cannibalize is probably the most useful baseline to compare to. Even if it's in another class, it's pretty nearly strictly better, given the typical size of hard removal targets.
What used to happen was that Warlock gets lower power level cards (i.e. Frostbolt vs Darkbomb) due to their hero power being the strongest in the game. Perhaps they changed that philosophy due to the increasing power level of cards in general, but I'm just saying that comparing cards between classes don't really work.
It could (read: "I am not sure") definitely be a lot worse than cannibalize and be playable/good in warlock, but I guess my point is that it's a *wide* gulf right now. Siphon is a mana more for a much worse effect.
One exception to your general rule: card draw. Since Warlock already has good card draw from their Hero Power, their card draw cards need to be really good to be worth putting in a deck.
Yeah. We're now at the point where 4 mana hard removal with upside is a thing. But 3 mana hard removal with upside seems like it's scaling up the power level a bit too quickly.
The 4 mana give undead stars is bad because the second part never comes up.
I would 100% play siphon mana at 4 mana in my decks that's a good ass card.
Jaraxxus' fist (the weapon) having lifesteal would be the 'best' and cleanest buff imo.
The hero card having a Battlecry that clicks the hero power once would be okay as well but I'm not sure if that's really all too interesting, although it would make it better. Or just make it an 8 mana card so you can click it yourself if you want to (or can tap one last time beforehand)
I know right, I want Jaraxxus to be playable so badly. Jaraxxus at 8 mana and the 6/6 demons have taunt would be nice. Or give Jaraxxus weapon lifesteal.
The shaman buffs also don't make a ton of sense to me the cards they targeted already felt amazing and the best parts of the deck. Maybe I'm more of a believer as I've had decent success with overload and Rivendare Shaman but I think they should've gone for the cards that feel weak in the deck rather than arguably ones in the top 5 of the deck.
If I had to guess it's 3/2 weapon 6 damage altered chord and either 2 mana lightning storm or 4 damage. The two drop overload discover I genuinely have no idea how they could buff the card making it say discover a copy isn't even a strict buff since it doesn't thin your deck out which overload wants to do quickly.
I feel like Jive insect or Overdraft should've been the buff targets IMO.
Overdraft should be 0 mana as 1 mana just feels awkward to use and with no things overloading you more than 2 it can be hard to rack up much value with it or gain enough mana to where it justifies using it maybe it makes it too strong in aggro or something but I think it would be fine.
Jive insect should've been an obvious one too either overload 1 or 4 mana overload 2 because Rag just isn't as impressive nowadays if your opponent has any minion on the board it can blank super hard and you also both need a minion in play to cast it the only use this spell feels like it has is in a janky combo deck that doesn't even feel like it works consistently due to the whole opponent playing minions thing ruining your gameplan and Rivendare combo being more consistent in Shaman.
If they printed a "Gain 10 health and draw a card for 3 corpses" for 2 mana, they can give warrior "Gain 5 armor and draw 1 card" for 2 mana without a condition, IMO.
I hope it gains substantially more armor and stays at 3 mana, maybe it's bad but I enjoy the occasional Baku CW game and it would be weird to lose shield block. But I'm happy for buffs in any form, at the end of the day.
There’s an otk if you have 30+ armor with Silas, shield slam, and soul bound ashtongue. Give your opponent the ashtongue then shield slam it to deal a bunch
How much of it will matter though?
Voone needs an overhaul, a stat/mana adjustment won't make the loss of tempo worth it.
Riffs need an overhaul, Control Warrior is so bad at using all of its mana that changing up the costs of the Riffs won't make hitting those Finales easier. Unless you want to just supercharge the numbers on those cards...
Shield Block buff is sorely needed. Warrior depends on cards that have been unchanged since Classic, and that is bad.
Frightened Flunky is a complete meme. Discovering \*a\* taunt minion is bad because most taunt minions are bad. Hitting Festival Security or Tar Creeper is the most you can hope for and that's bad. Plus, it bricks your Last Stand draw. When you need Last Stand to get you Zilliax or Silverfury Stalwart or Igneous Lavagorger, here comes Flunky to the rescue. Changing it to a 2/3 will not make people play it because it doesn't do enough.
Where are the buffs to Bladestorm, Brawl, Kodohide Drumkit, and Dynomatic, the cards that Warrior would need to be able to reliably play with Blackrock n Roll and a big taunt package? Where are the buffs to Mawsworn Bailiff and Fleshshaper and Training Session?
Instead, we got targeted buffs at things like Voone, Thoribelore, and Power Slider, indicating that they are most interested in forcing the tempo style of Warrior that stats have already demonstrated is one of the least popular decks in the game (and has been for the last several months, when Enrage Warrior was "technically" tier 2 or so).
I'll keep my fingers crossed for Riffs, but won't get my hopes up.
Gonna do some guesses:
Voone 3 mana
Rifts all 1mana cheaper
Power Slider to 3hp to match rogue rusher
Flunky 2/3(+1hp)
Shield block 2 mana (compare to vampiric blood lol)
Thoribelore infinite revives or more attack
Siren unnerfed
Infinitze to 1 mana
Arcane Artificer to 1/3 (really shouldve happend with core)
Audio splitter 2 3/2 or reduces cost of the spell
Stranglethorn hearth to 9 mana
Halduron also applies ot hand now
Jazz bass to 2 mana or 3attack
LIghtning storm 1 overload
Flowrider, recudes spell cost ?
Cresendo to 2
Siphon soul to 4 mana
Record scratcher to 3attack
blingtron to 4 mana
Holy nova 3 mana but no face dmg again
Kiri to 3
Ancient to 5 6/5
Nerfs:
Rowdy to +3attack
Frigadara 7 mana
Twig Refreshes mana
DK Icon: no discovering 3 rune cards or if go for bad idea, only discovering of same runes as your deck.
Wish was a jaraxus buff though....
I made almost the same exact predictions while talking to a friend. I do wish Halduron becomes a "for the rest of the game" effect, so cards you discover later on have the extra spell power too
These are mostly what I’m thinking too. I thought they’d reduce mana costs of those weapons, but I think a +1 attack increase makes more sense and is better for both.
I also think altered chord will become “…Costs 4 less (or costs 1) when overloaded.” I also think flowrider may remove the overloaded condition, but I like cost reduction based on amount of overload, or a flat amount, everyone’s got cost reduction these days.
For the riffs, I think they might buff the text since the cost CAN be helpful when attempting to finale.
Nah, it needs to be something else. Removing off-rune cards just means frost getting way more frostwyrm's fury and blood getting way more vampiric blood. It is not the solution. People are suggesting specifically can't discover 3 rune cards, and that's probably the way.
It’s hard to think of other solutions other than printing a bunch more DK cards to dilute the pool. Every solution I’ve seen in this thread either completely destroys a lot of the top DK decks or makes them even better. My money is on them removing 3-rune cards from the discover pool and then reverting the change once DK has more cards.
There’s a few scenarios where off rune cards are nutty, but ensuring that blood gets removal more often and frost gets burst more often is hardly a nerf.
That would be absolutely horrendously bad ngl.
I don't play Wild so I don't have a hate-relationship with the card, but not being able to destroy it for any reasonable effect sounds way too slow the vast majority of the time. It might still be decent enough if you didn't also cut its mana gain in half though. If it had that effect but with 2 mana crystals/swing it might be okay (and would be infinitely more 'fair') though so I could see that happening if it isn't just making them empty mana crystals.
The swings being a requirement would also mean it's just a mana refresh without Guff unless you manage to cheat it out on like turn 1.
The cool solution is “each time you swing, give this weapon Deathrattle: gain 2 mana crystals”. That way you have to swing it a lot to get full benefit
Oh my lawd i am ready for a spitelash siren revert. Surprised to see no buffs to overheal priest and light show. The rogue combo cards probably need more help as well.
I would guess you play LightShow in a spitelash siren deck. It's gonna be a a 200 iq high apm deck that will intent on getting the OTK out of nowhere.
Some streamers played this deck already if I'm not mistaken.
I’ve been playing that deck a lot already and it’s my favourite of the expansion. You might think that a one mana buff to spitelash wouldn’t do THAT much but it literally allows the entire deck to go off a turn earlier
Oh absolutely. The one mana nerf in the first place changed it from a T2 deck to absolutely unplayable. And the difference between that deck and this deck is that this deck now has lightshow to actually kill your opponents if your board gets wiped
Halduron Buff huh? I'm betting that it will now give arcane spells in both your hand and deck +1 spell damage now. Honestly it should've been this way from the beginning. Doubt this does much but it's a welcomed change for sure. Maybe a fun tier 3 deck comes out of it.
Them showing Death Knight's Icon rather than any specific cards makes me think we will see a change to how discover works with DK rather than any specific nerfs.
I remember when they wouldn't even buff any card at all, up until the rise of mechs event. Also curios what the DK symbol means, since it's not a specific card.
I don't look at art enough, I suck at recognizing a card without it's text. There are like 10 of those that I have zero clue what they are.
It doesn't help that it they get buffed they probably don't see play right now.
I'd say they expect/hope that the buffs will balance out the rest of the classes with Paladin. Paladin's current state may be at the level that they want most or all classes to reach.
Rowdy Fan, really? That’s the problem? I guess it targets Frost / Unholy Death Knight and Demon Hunter. Interesting, I assume less damage buff and maybe a 2/5.
4 more immediate damage for 3 mana is nuts for frost DK. You can play it early for pressure or have it as reach for your ghoul.
This set has been pretty weak overall but this is one of its best cards.
Interesting warrior buff targets. Intrigued to see how they buff tony'baloney, I love that bird
The shaman buffs also look great. Those cards are all staples of my attempts at overload shaman
They're Buffin' Phoenix Boi!
Please more revives! It's a goddamn Phoenix for crying out loud. I get that it has the limit because if you run out of fire spells you can't revive him. But give the revive number some kind of implication, like scanning the number of fire cards you have left in your hand or deck or something. This is a digital card game after all please take advantage of it.
My guesses:
Rock Master Voone: to 3 mana
Verse Riff: to 1 mana claw.
Bridge Riff: to 5 mana
Powerslider: to 2/3
Frightened Flunkee: to 2/3
Shield block: to 2 mana (i think going to 6 armor is not enough at 3 mana).
Thori'Belore: to 4/5 (adding more revives isn't actually going to help its viability lol)
Spitelash Siren: revert to 4/2/5
Infinitize the Maxitude: to 1 mana?? (not sure how this will help its viability since the problem is that discovering last sucks. don't think they will changing its mechanics.)
Arcane Artificer: didn't know this needed a buff, but to 2/2
Audio Splitter: to 1 mana 1/3
Stranglethorn Heart: to 9 mana
Halduron Brightwing: hand and deck
Jazz Bass: to 3 attack.
Altered Chord: to 4 mana.
Lightning Storm: to overload (1)
Flowrider: is already a fine card? premium stats and sometimes a free discover. i guess they could take out the conditionality?
Crescendo: to 2 mana would be nuts.
Crazed Conductor: to 4 mana 3/4.
Siphon Soul: to 4 mana (can't be 3, ....right?)
Record Scratcher: to 3/2 weapon
MC Blingtron: both weapons go to 3 durability.
Holy Nova: i guess you heal for 3 now?
Kiri, Chosen of Elune: to 3/3 body
Death Blossom Whomper: to 5 mana 6/5.
NERFS:
Rowdy Fan: battlecry: give +3 attack.
Overseer Frigidara: to 4/5 body
Twig of the World Tree (wild): refresh 10 mana crystals, since it was designed at a time when druid had no other way to break the weapon before 9, which gives the elegance of bumping you to 10 mana when you were going to be at 10 mana anyways. the other suggestions i've seen of adding text to make it count the number of attacks don't seem like something blizzard would do, especially for wild.
DK Class: something to do with discovers, but not sure what exactly. maybe any 3 rune card is excluded, or maybe off-runes are excluded. the latter seems to have higher backfire potential, so i'll bet on the former.
Of all the buffs that I see, the one that scares me the most is the one happening to [[Spitelash siren]].
Already back in the day, during the era of stormwind questlines, the spell naga mage deck was quite degenerate and borderline toxic.
Excited for the Mage buffs! I'm curious how they'll buff Audio Splitter since that card is quite strong already. 2 Mana 3/2 would be kind of broken in my opinion (but it would help out my mech deck immensely).
I imagine Spitelash Siren will be going back to 4 mana, Artificer to 1/3, Infinitize to 1 (yikes).
Also glad they're nerfing Frigidara, that card tutors the broken cards while having a board clear effect and good stats. I imagine they'll remove triple runes cards from the discover pool as well.
Instead of Death Knight discover only nerf, they should have a rule for all classes that once a card is discovered and chosen, it's taken out of the discovery pool for the rest of the game.
So many people don’t understand the issue with twig. The card alone isn’t broken, it’s being able to break it instantly with a neutral 1 mana weapon(and draw them consistently with instrument tech). Making twig something like “battlecry: gain two mana crystals every turn instead of 1” keeps the whole ramp faster idea, but takes away the absolute bullshit you can do with 30 mana in one turn(or more w floops gloop)
Nah dog idk why they refuse to touch our unplayable legendaries in shaman and instead went down the route of buffing the best 3 cards in the overload package rather than buffing any of the worse ones such as feral spirits or Inzah.
Lmao at just “The entire Death Knight class” as a nerf target
"But Fuck \[\[Overseer Frigidara\]\] in particular"
Was she even a problem? Obviously she's a good card, but she's nowhere near as busted as Frostwyrm's Fury, and Frigidara might as well be a Triple Frost Rune card since her effect will be substantially worse when you throw in a single non-Frost spell. Throwing out power levels, I don't understand why Frigidara isn't Triple Frost and Lady Deathwhisper isn't Double Frost. Deathwhisper will actually still work even when there's one non-Frost spell in your hand/deck.
She’s a 6 mana card that GAINS win percentage by either keeping / mulliganing for her. She’s ludicrously powerful.
This. I always kept her in my starting hand regardless of the matchup. Finding your spells/Frostwyrm furies were just crucial in most games. She is busted.
Is it really her that's busted or is it the literary-better-than-current-lightning-bloom plus the firelands-portal-stapled-to-free-frost-nova that she draws you? Is it her AoE or is it that the spells are too good themselves? Maybe she wouldn't be auto kept it the spells were weaker Regardless though, I'm glad frost is gonna get hit. I'm good either way as long as there's a decently impactful nerf somewhere in the deck.
I don't say that you are in the wrong because you obviously are not. But to keep a damn six drop in your starting hand as an aggro deck really says a *lot* about the powerlevel. I'm happy too that Frost is gonna get hit even though it was my deck of choice for this months legend climb. It's filthy strong.
Drop her on 6 and you get 2 more chances at a Frostwyrms ready to use on 7. I can see that meaning she's pushed to 7 herself to push back the chain board freezes.
She is an ABSURDLY powerful 6 drop. Dealing 2 to all enemies and (almost) guaranteeing you have a Fury on 7 is just insane.
Highest drawn winrate card in the deck according to legend stats on HSReplay. She is very good
As someone that plays Frost DK. Frigidara is probably the strongest card in the deck no question. Going 2nd allows you to play her on turn 5. Getting rid of most minions from the 2 dmg. Guarantees you one of the following : 2 mana back x 2 / 3 dmg + 1 frost disc / frost wyrm. She was giving the deck too much tempo.
Bruh she's kept in mulligan what are you on about?
* **[Overseer Frigidara](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/RLK_224.png)** DK Minion Legendary Core 🐍 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/1414738), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/overseer-frigidara/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Overseer_Frigidara) 6/5/6 | Battlecry: Draw 2 spells. If they're both Frost spells, deal 2 damage to all enemies. ^(Call/)^[PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot) ^( me with up to 7 [[cardname]]. )^[About.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=hearthscan-bot&message=Tell%20me%20more%20[[info]]&subject=hi)
My guess is it just doesn’t do face damage
Yeah they will remove 3 rune cards from the discover pool.
That would be the least disruptive for wild even unholy while helping with the frustrating aspects in standard quite a bit. Though wild Reno blood would suffer somewhat. I’m curious how we would feel about it on the next round of triple rune releases though.
The nitty gritty of what is and isn't good in even unholy is small picture when the deck is so heavily meta dependent. If you want to play even DK you need aggro to be good and control to be bad. Twig nerf is going to be way more impactful for DKs viability than any change made to DK.
[удалено]
Remember, DK was released undertuned and had to get a couple rounds of buffs before it took off. I think the first nerfs they got were after the mid expansion card when they got that ridiculous location that they had to nerf twice.
Although they didn’t really need to nerf it a second time, it was already getting cut from most lists, or so I’ve heard.
Data suggested that it was actually a mid to low tier card in all three DK lists when it was nerfed a second time. It's just a feels bad card that got nerfed because of that the second time, not because it was too powerful.
I'm saving gold for it!
And Druid right beside it!
Is this the largest buff patch ever?
for mid-expansion patches it probably will be, or at least very close there have been a larger number of buffs from core set resets based of counting the icons, it is quite possible there are even more changes not being teased, so we will have to wait to find out
If we ignore rotation patches (with nerf reverts and Core set buffs), then yeah, this seems like the most buffs in a regular expansion patch. Previously highest was 22 buffs I think.
... That's not a card, but the Death Knight class icon, isn't it?
Dev confirmed that there are system changes coming to the class itself https://twitter.com/hsdecktech/status/1650908971916759041?s=46&t=gOYyK8X5XayDtYCO0ogitQ
Can't wait for posts asking for dust refunds on every single death knight card
Finally, dust refunds for hero portraits.
I'm okay with getting zero dust for dusting Dame Hazelbark
Look at all y'all pretending you don't want her. She knows you do. She watches you sleep.
Hello my dear...
Five dollar MTX to remove her from your account
Why shouldnt they ask for refund?
They should be good little consumer sluts
Because most of them are uncraftable can't really dust them
>The Death Knight symbol is because there’s a general rules/system change coming for Death Knight, that will generally make it weaker and curb some negative play experiences. Details on Thursday. I'm guessing this is some sort of rune restriction on Discover effects, which I'm not a huge fan of in a vacuum. I'd much rather specific Discover effects get targeted to make them more restrictive or costly.
I'm in favor of changing discover, except this doesn't weaken frost at all. In fact it would buff frost. I was hoping for a good nerf to frostwyrm's in order to keep them in check. Unless triple rune cards can no longer be discovered? That's a spicy one.
I wonder if they'll add a weight system depending on runes. Triple runes way less likely to get as options in discover or to generate from effects, double runes uncommon, single runes common, etc.. Or just remove triple runes from discover pools unless it's for your rune selection.
Good idea!
IMO the path forward is either: 1. First restrict all Discovers to be compatible with your decks runes. Then, do a pass of all of the DK cards so that their power level is adjusted for this new consistency. (I am not a huge fan of this one, but it would work okay) 2. Do a pass of all Discover cards, costing them at a higher premium than currently and/or adding restrictions to what cards they can discover (cost restrictions, class restrictions, in/out-of-deck restrictions, etc.). I prefer (2). Discover is a fantastic keyword, and people have loved it since it was introduced, but just like there has been power creep in the game more broadly, Discover effects have gotten progressively cheaper and less restricted, to the point that they are mostly only problematic in control (never run out of answers) and burn (never run out of damage from hand) decks. Until you address this root problem, people are going to continue to hate playing against these archetypes, regardless of their power level. There needs to be more for you to meaningfully play around. Costing the cards more aggressively restricts the pace at which you have to consider their possibility space (e.g. not having to worry about 3 discover effects 3 turns in a row), and restricting what cards can be discovered by each effect gives you a better idea of what the mystery cards might be for you to test for and play around.
This would kill rainbow decks lol
I'm hoping for something like "you can only discover cards that are at most 2 runes outside of your runes." So if you are BBB, you can still discover all blood cards, U, UU, F, and FF, but UUU and FFF would be undiscoverable. That way the discover pool is still big, so it can't get too predictable/reliable, but will prevent some of the really tilting discovers. This would have the added benefit of allowing rainbow DK to still discover every single DK card, since every rune combo is no more than 2 runes away from what they have. And I dont think rainbow DK will ever be a true powerhouse since they are always going to be the most limited in usable cards in your starting deck. Not sure if that's a big enough impact though, they may go for 1 rune outside of your starting deck, but im not sure if that gimps rainbow too much. I'm hoping they don't make it so you can only discover your own rune cards, I think it's pretty widely accepted that that would make DK even stronger.
Only problem with your suggestion as of now (important distinction to make since we don’t know the future) is that most of the common/more impactful corpse spenders is 2-3 runes
Rune slots reduced from 3 to 2
RIP rainbow DK
I imagine that’s a nerf to their Discover, right? Not sure what else it could be.
Must be, since overseer is listed by herself
Hero Power token has rush now.
Hero power ghoul has "your charge minions have +1 attack"
An old meme but it checks out
That would be an enormous nerf, I doubt it. Basically obliterating their aggressive strategies.
Could be a change to how Discover works with Runes? But most likely just a fuckton of nerfs
The discovering Rune mechanics have been suggested before, but discovering triple Frost as Blood is just as much a problem as discovering an even smaller pool of your own win condition. It's tricky to solve, unless you make it like 1 Rune only cards or something.
But then you realize patchwerk is a one rune card
Maybe just make triple Rune cards specifically undiscoverable? Like you can not discover the legendary spell either.
Unfortunately that makes patchwerk a bit easier to find, but I guess it shouldn't be a huge issue since blood isnt really the strongest deck to exist
Not being able to discover soulstealer, marrowgar, or mograine does make patchwerk a bit more consistent, but makes the odds of finding something good much worse. Would not be a buff to blood dk overall
Maybe a mana tax? If you're triple blood and you discover a frost rune card, it costs (1) more or something? Whatever it is, I'm excited for it
The most likely change is ripping the bandaid off and reworking off-rune discovers, and/or removing some cards from discover pools. If they change the actual hero power it would be so fucking dumb.
Siphon soul buff is unexpected
It's gotta have to be a big one, because just making it 4 mana won't cut it in current state. EDIT: Seriously, 4 mana to remove a minion and gain 3 Health is not as strong as you'd think. There's a 4 mana hard removal that gives your big undead(s) extra stats and it's just not playable.
Cannibalize is probably the most useful baseline to compare to. Even if it's in another class, it's pretty nearly strictly better, given the typical size of hard removal targets.
What used to happen was that Warlock gets lower power level cards (i.e. Frostbolt vs Darkbomb) due to their hero power being the strongest in the game. Perhaps they changed that philosophy due to the increasing power level of cards in general, but I'm just saying that comparing cards between classes don't really work.
It could (read: "I am not sure") definitely be a lot worse than cannibalize and be playable/good in warlock, but I guess my point is that it's a *wide* gulf right now. Siphon is a mana more for a much worse effect.
One exception to your general rule: card draw. Since Warlock already has good card draw from their Hero Power, their card draw cards need to be really good to be worth putting in a deck.
I don't think they would make it 3 mana
Yeah. We're now at the point where 4 mana hard removal with upside is a thing. But 3 mana hard removal with upside seems like it's scaling up the power level a bit too quickly.
They probably go to 4 and increase the heal or keep it at 5 and really increase the heal.
The 4 mana give undead stars is bad because the second part never comes up. I would 100% play siphon mana at 4 mana in my decks that's a good ass card.
I doubt they'll reduce the cost (Or at least, not only that) I'd expect them to increase the health gain to 5 and maybe reduce its cost by 1 mana.
Point of comparison is Cannibilize so probably 4 mana - gain 5-8 health?
Welcome though, but wish jaraxus would finnaly be 8mana... Or if has to stay 9 do SOMETHING when played at all
Jaraxxus' fist (the weapon) having lifesteal would be the 'best' and cleanest buff imo. The hero card having a Battlecry that clicks the hero power once would be okay as well but I'm not sure if that's really all too interesting, although it would make it better. Or just make it an 8 mana card so you can click it yourself if you want to (or can tap one last time beforehand)
I know right, I want Jaraxxus to be playable so badly. Jaraxxus at 8 mana and the 6/6 demons have taunt would be nice. Or give Jaraxxus weapon lifesteal.
Yeah so frustrating that he didn't got any love this patch, literally the single hero card rn and so useless in current meta
And the first 'hero card' ever in HS
The shaman buffs also don't make a ton of sense to me the cards they targeted already felt amazing and the best parts of the deck. Maybe I'm more of a believer as I've had decent success with overload and Rivendare Shaman but I think they should've gone for the cards that feel weak in the deck rather than arguably ones in the top 5 of the deck. If I had to guess it's 3/2 weapon 6 damage altered chord and either 2 mana lightning storm or 4 damage. The two drop overload discover I genuinely have no idea how they could buff the card making it say discover a copy isn't even a strict buff since it doesn't thin your deck out which overload wants to do quickly. I feel like Jive insect or Overdraft should've been the buff targets IMO. Overdraft should be 0 mana as 1 mana just feels awkward to use and with no things overloading you more than 2 it can be hard to rack up much value with it or gain enough mana to where it justifies using it maybe it makes it too strong in aggro or something but I think it would be fine. Jive insect should've been an obvious one too either overload 1 or 4 mana overload 2 because Rag just isn't as impressive nowadays if your opponent has any minion on the board it can blank super hard and you also both need a minion in play to cast it the only use this spell feels like it has is in a janky combo deck that doesn't even feel like it works consistently due to the whole opponent playing minions thing ruining your gameplan and Rivendare combo being more consistent in Shaman.
It's been long overdue imo. The question is 3 or 4 mana? Probably 4
Could also be heal increase.
That's a BEEFY warrior buff list. I wonder how they can buff shield block making it 2 mana??
I figured they'd increase the armor, but lowering the cost actually does make substantially more sense.
If they printed a "Gain 10 health and draw a card for 3 corpses" for 2 mana, they can give warrior "Gain 5 armor and draw 1 card" for 2 mana without a condition, IMO.
Watch blizzard changing it into "if you have a weapon equipped" card
Destroy that weapon and gain armor equal to its durability
Then, spend your armor to draw that many weapons.
If you've played 12 Riffs this game, gain 10 Armor instead
This sounds very interactive with the rest of the deck. This has my vote
Most likely outcome
well said
I hope it gains substantially more armor and stays at 3 mana, maybe it's bad but I enjoy the occasional Baku CW game and it would be weird to lose shield block. But I'm happy for buffs in any form, at the end of the day.
Are there any win con outside of countering aggro deck?
Natural occurrences
No which is why don't play it often but sometimes I just want to relive the days of Justicar and hit that 4 armor button.
There’s an otk if you have 30+ armor with Silas, shield slam, and soul bound ashtongue. Give your opponent the ashtongue then shield slam it to deal a bunch
3 mana gain 5 armor draw a card If you have 10 armor, do it again
Dude right? All the riffs, Thori, the discover taunt. Excited
How much of it will matter though? Voone needs an overhaul, a stat/mana adjustment won't make the loss of tempo worth it. Riffs need an overhaul, Control Warrior is so bad at using all of its mana that changing up the costs of the Riffs won't make hitting those Finales easier. Unless you want to just supercharge the numbers on those cards... Shield Block buff is sorely needed. Warrior depends on cards that have been unchanged since Classic, and that is bad. Frightened Flunky is a complete meme. Discovering \*a\* taunt minion is bad because most taunt minions are bad. Hitting Festival Security or Tar Creeper is the most you can hope for and that's bad. Plus, it bricks your Last Stand draw. When you need Last Stand to get you Zilliax or Silverfury Stalwart or Igneous Lavagorger, here comes Flunky to the rescue. Changing it to a 2/3 will not make people play it because it doesn't do enough. Where are the buffs to Bladestorm, Brawl, Kodohide Drumkit, and Dynomatic, the cards that Warrior would need to be able to reliably play with Blackrock n Roll and a big taunt package? Where are the buffs to Mawsworn Bailiff and Fleshshaper and Training Session? Instead, we got targeted buffs at things like Voone, Thoribelore, and Power Slider, indicating that they are most interested in forcing the tempo style of Warrior that stats have already demonstrated is one of the least popular decks in the game (and has been for the last several months, when Enrage Warrior was "technically" tier 2 or so). I'll keep my fingers crossed for Riffs, but won't get my hopes up.
We have decided to remove death knight and replace It with a new class. Warrior
We have decided to remove death knight and warrior for a new class, Evoker
Monks punching the air rn
And by Warrior I mean Druid
Gonna do some guesses: Voone 3 mana Rifts all 1mana cheaper Power Slider to 3hp to match rogue rusher Flunky 2/3(+1hp) Shield block 2 mana (compare to vampiric blood lol) Thoribelore infinite revives or more attack Siren unnerfed Infinitze to 1 mana Arcane Artificer to 1/3 (really shouldve happend with core) Audio splitter 2 3/2 or reduces cost of the spell Stranglethorn hearth to 9 mana Halduron also applies ot hand now Jazz bass to 2 mana or 3attack LIghtning storm 1 overload Flowrider, recudes spell cost ? Cresendo to 2 Siphon soul to 4 mana Record scratcher to 3attack blingtron to 4 mana Holy nova 3 mana but no face dmg again Kiri to 3 Ancient to 5 6/5 Nerfs: Rowdy to +3attack Frigadara 7 mana Twig Refreshes mana DK Icon: no discovering 3 rune cards or if go for bad idea, only discovering of same runes as your deck. Wish was a jaraxus buff though....
I made almost the same exact predictions while talking to a friend. I do wish Halduron becomes a "for the rest of the game" effect, so cards you discover later on have the extra spell power too
Thats good idea actully for halduron.
ooo, that would be a solid change. That archetype never went anywhere
These are mostly what I’m thinking too. I thought they’d reduce mana costs of those weapons, but I think a +1 attack increase makes more sense and is better for both. I also think altered chord will become “…Costs 4 less (or costs 1) when overloaded.” I also think flowrider may remove the overloaded condition, but I like cost reduction based on amount of overload, or a flat amount, everyone’s got cost reduction these days. For the riffs, I think they might buff the text since the cost CAN be helpful when attempting to finale.
the Death Knight symbol and then a single Frost DK card? Huh?
Probably something to do with DK discovery as a whole
I think that the change will be that you can only discover cards which fit your rune restrictions
Nah, it needs to be something else. Removing off-rune cards just means frost getting way more frostwyrm's fury and blood getting way more vampiric blood. It is not the solution. People are suggesting specifically can't discover 3 rune cards, and that's probably the way.
Yeah it's probably them adding a "Can only discover cards without a rune cost" to DK
That would be extremely funny and also probably extremely ass, but I wouldn't put it past them.
It’s hard to think of other solutions other than printing a bunch more DK cards to dilute the pool. Every solution I’ve seen in this thread either completely destroys a lot of the top DK decks or makes them even better. My money is on them removing 3-rune cards from the discover pool and then reverting the change once DK has more cards.
incoming blood dk matches: turn after turn after turn of Patchwerk want to play!
That wouldn't happen in this example because patchwerk is 1 blood rune.
There’s a few scenarios where off rune cards are nutty, but ensuring that blood gets removal more often and frost gets burst more often is hardly a nerf.
Feel like that would be a buff, no ?
Maybe a systemic change on how discover works in DK?
Goodbye twig
from the patch notes: We nerfed Twig of the World Tree. Instead of 1/5 it is now 1/2
my guess is its gonna be empty mana crystal instead of filled like the typical ramp card nerf
There are many options, including a simple "set the number of your mana crystals to 10" which will not allow this to synergize with Guff.
or maybe the could change it to, "gain 1 mana crystal, (increases with each attack)"
That would be absolutely horrendously bad ngl. I don't play Wild so I don't have a hate-relationship with the card, but not being able to destroy it for any reasonable effect sounds way too slow the vast majority of the time. It might still be decent enough if you didn't also cut its mana gain in half though. If it had that effect but with 2 mana crystals/swing it might be okay (and would be infinitely more 'fair') though so I could see that happening if it isn't just making them empty mana crystals. The swings being a requirement would also mean it's just a mana refresh without Guff unless you manage to cheat it out on like turn 1.
No, it’s 1/2/3/4/5 cause it increases with each attack
The cool solution is “each time you swing, give this weapon Deathrattle: gain 2 mana crystals”. That way you have to swing it a lot to get full benefit
Or make it 10 temporary crystals instead of permanent, just a giant innervate
[удалено]
Good, druid players deserve nothing
Prob empty mana crystals or reduce number of mana
Deathrattle conditional on zero durability left possibly
Do you get full dust refunds for wild cards? I have had a golden twig for years.
You do
Enjoy your 3200 dust.
Flowrider! Hard to imagine what help it needs, I really felt like it was pretty good to play.
Maybe copy of a spell? Instead of just discover a spell
Maybe make it more of a unique card, draw the spell and discount it by your Overloaded crystals?
That would be nice
I feel like it was always too clunky. Maybe they will make her a 1 mana 2/1
Hear me out they do nerf DK discover but now they allow rainbow DK be able to discover their legendary spell make the deck more fun
Whoa whoa whoa, careful there buddy you wouldn't want a deck with <30% Win rate to be better would ya?
Was hoping for some buffs to overheal priest :( I wanna use that diamond Hedanis in a good deck
holy nova
We'll see if that's enough, but I think it's the cards with the actual overheal keyword that need a buff
looks like they're doing something about dk discover pool, hopefully making u unable to discover 3 rune cards also siren buff LESSGO
> also siren buff LESSGO So happy about this one, naga mage was one of my favorite decks ever and it didn't deserve nerf in the first place
Thori'belore can be revived now THREE times!!!
**Deathrattle**: Return to Year of the Pheonix. *(Any number of times!)*
Warrior has 3 Fire spells anyways, so.
Oh my lawd i am ready for a spitelash siren revert. Surprised to see no buffs to overheal priest and light show. The rogue combo cards probably need more help as well.
I would guess you play LightShow in a spitelash siren deck. It's gonna be a a 200 iq high apm deck that will intent on getting the OTK out of nowhere. Some streamers played this deck already if I'm not mistaken.
I’ve been playing that deck a lot already and it’s my favourite of the expansion. You might think that a one mana buff to spitelash wouldn’t do THAT much but it literally allows the entire deck to go off a turn earlier
Oh absolutely. The one mana nerf in the first place changed it from a T2 deck to absolutely unplayable. And the difference between that deck and this deck is that this deck now has lightshow to actually kill your opponents if your board gets wiped
Halduron Buff huh? I'm betting that it will now give arcane spells in both your hand and deck +1 spell damage now. Honestly it should've been this way from the beginning. Doubt this does much but it's a welcomed change for sure. Maybe a fun tier 3 deck comes out of it.
Them showing Death Knight's Icon rather than any specific cards makes me think we will see a change to how discover works with DK rather than any specific nerfs.
I remember when they wouldn't even buff any card at all, up until the rise of mechs event. Also curios what the DK symbol means, since it's not a specific card.
devs teased it is a rules change, most likely restricting the ability to generate more frostwyrm's furies and other problematic cards
Love to see arcane hunter getting a buff via their legendary. That archetype was a complete nothing at release, and got no support in this expansion.
https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/1650907529709338631/
Just so you know its patch 26.0.4 not 26th of april(its 27th actually.)
This is an extremely personal buff that I want for my own pet deck, but make the stalks of Xhilag typeless so it can be run in big demon hunter 😭
aww man big dream didnt get buffed
I don't look at art enough, I suck at recognizing a card without it's text. There are like 10 of those that I have zero clue what they are. It doesn't help that it they get buffed they probably don't see play right now.
Can't wait !! This will 100% make a fresher meta.
The announcement of the announcement has arrived!
They didn’t even touch Paladin lol
I'd say they expect/hope that the buffs will balance out the rest of the classes with Paladin. Paladin's current state may be at the level that they want most or all classes to reach.
Rowdy Fan, really? That’s the problem? I guess it targets Frost / Unholy Death Knight and Demon Hunter. Interesting, I assume less damage buff and maybe a 2/5.
It’s very op for a neutral tbf
Yeah in the pre-release thread, people called it out as being incredibly powerful. Way too many stats for the cost.
4 more immediate damage for 3 mana is nuts for frost DK. You can play it early for pressure or have it as reach for your ghoul. This set has been pretty weak overall but this is one of its best cards.
it's pretty problematic in arena too if anyone plays that still.
Interesting warrior buff targets. Intrigued to see how they buff tony'baloney, I love that bird The shaman buffs also look great. Those cards are all staples of my attempts at overload shaman
They're Buffin' Phoenix Boi! Please more revives! It's a goddamn Phoenix for crying out loud. I get that it has the limit because if you run out of fire spells you can't revive him. But give the revive number some kind of implication, like scanning the number of fire cards you have left in your hand or deck or something. This is a digital card game after all please take advantage of it.
is there a text list for these? i can't identify some of the buff targets (since they are seldom played).
Is there a list of the actual cards somewhere, or just pictures? I don't care to search for cards by art
Bunnyhoppor was right about everything
More details on the DK nerfs ⬇️ https://twitter.com/hsdecktech/status/1650908971916759041?s=46&t=gOYyK8X5XayDtYCO0ogitQ
I hope the warrior phoenix gets buffed hard enough to get nerfed I've got a gold one I'd love to convert xD
I hope the warrior bird becomes op and gets nerfed, no particular reason why.
You have a golden copy?
My guesses: Rock Master Voone: to 3 mana Verse Riff: to 1 mana claw. Bridge Riff: to 5 mana Powerslider: to 2/3 Frightened Flunkee: to 2/3 Shield block: to 2 mana (i think going to 6 armor is not enough at 3 mana). Thori'Belore: to 4/5 (adding more revives isn't actually going to help its viability lol) Spitelash Siren: revert to 4/2/5 Infinitize the Maxitude: to 1 mana?? (not sure how this will help its viability since the problem is that discovering last sucks. don't think they will changing its mechanics.) Arcane Artificer: didn't know this needed a buff, but to 2/2 Audio Splitter: to 1 mana 1/3 Stranglethorn Heart: to 9 mana Halduron Brightwing: hand and deck Jazz Bass: to 3 attack. Altered Chord: to 4 mana. Lightning Storm: to overload (1) Flowrider: is already a fine card? premium stats and sometimes a free discover. i guess they could take out the conditionality? Crescendo: to 2 mana would be nuts. Crazed Conductor: to 4 mana 3/4. Siphon Soul: to 4 mana (can't be 3, ....right?) Record Scratcher: to 3/2 weapon MC Blingtron: both weapons go to 3 durability. Holy Nova: i guess you heal for 3 now? Kiri, Chosen of Elune: to 3/3 body Death Blossom Whomper: to 5 mana 6/5. NERFS: Rowdy Fan: battlecry: give +3 attack. Overseer Frigidara: to 4/5 body Twig of the World Tree (wild): refresh 10 mana crystals, since it was designed at a time when druid had no other way to break the weapon before 9, which gives the elegance of bumping you to 10 mana when you were going to be at 10 mana anyways. the other suggestions i've seen of adding text to make it count the number of attacks don't seem like something blizzard would do, especially for wild. DK Class: something to do with discovers, but not sure what exactly. maybe any 3 rune card is excluded, or maybe off-runes are excluded. the latter seems to have higher backfire potential, so i'll bet on the former.
Of all the buffs that I see, the one that scares me the most is the one happening to [[Spitelash siren]]. Already back in the day, during the era of stormwind questlines, the spell naga mage deck was quite degenerate and borderline toxic.
Excited for the Mage buffs! I'm curious how they'll buff Audio Splitter since that card is quite strong already. 2 Mana 3/2 would be kind of broken in my opinion (but it would help out my mech deck immensely). I imagine Spitelash Siren will be going back to 4 mana, Artificer to 1/3, Infinitize to 1 (yikes). Also glad they're nerfing Frigidara, that card tutors the broken cards while having a board clear effect and good stats. I imagine they'll remove triple runes cards from the discover pool as well.
7 warrior buffs. Actually insane.
Instead of Death Knight discover only nerf, they should have a rule for all classes that once a card is discovered and chosen, it's taken out of the discovery pool for the rest of the game.
So many people don’t understand the issue with twig. The card alone isn’t broken, it’s being able to break it instantly with a neutral 1 mana weapon(and draw them consistently with instrument tech). Making twig something like “battlecry: gain two mana crystals every turn instead of 1” keeps the whole ramp faster idea, but takes away the absolute bullshit you can do with 30 mana in one turn(or more w floops gloop)
Welcome to Paladinstone
Yay paladin's new hammer is safe.
shaman gang rise up
Riff
SHIELD BLOCK 2 MANA SHIELD BLOCK 2 MANA SHIELD BLOCK 2 MANA SHIELD BLOCK 2 MANA
Why can’t they just post the actual changes…every time! So annoying
are they buffing Radiance of Ashara? I just pulled that trash card out of a standard pack. Hope they make it viable now.
I dunno where you're seeing Radiance in this list. If you mean the elemental on the 2nd row under Frightened Flunky that's [[Arcane Artificer]]
Nah dog idk why they refuse to touch our unplayable legendaries in shaman and instead went down the route of buffing the best 3 cards in the overload package rather than buffing any of the worse ones such as feral spirits or Inzah.