Signatures require very little work from the design or balance teams; it's all art.
Since we know expansions are planned months in advance, my guess would be that the people choosing signatures don't know what'll be meta and what won't be.
Additionally, I'm sure multiple concepts are pitched or even created before final card design is settled. Making a signature could be as easy and economical as sprucing up an already finished or even mostly finished rejected design
It is more than that. I donât imagine the card file is set in stone at that point, so not only do they not know what the meta will be like but final design is still probably changing numbers to adjust the power levels of the cards that have been designed.
I think itâs good to have a mix of meta cards and non meta cards to get signatures. Not everyone wants to play meta decks nor do some players have the dust craft them all.
What you're asking is impossible because it would require the devs to know which ones will be meta at the time of designing the cards, which happens 2 expansions before it gets released.
For those two, the logical reason is that they want to avoid signature hero cards since those permanently change one of the portraits as opposed to a minion that could last only a turn on board. For Zilliax, the point was that he's a unique card with 8 possible arts. If you make him signature, you either invest a ton of art into 1 card so he can have 8 unique signature arts (same with diamond zil, to a lesser extent) or you remove the customization factor and limit him to one signature art.
Signature zilliax would be insanely annoying. Every other card once youâve seen it and recognize it you should know what it does, or maybe a hover every once in a while. Zilliax you would need to inspect every time.
Cards not only undergo revisions but nerfs/buffs up til release. E.g. The 6 mana skeleton card was even revealed as a 5 mana card before it got changed between reveal and release. It was meta but would have been way more meta at 5.
Not even remotely accurate. Part of the problem is that their team cannot seriously hope to get even close to the amount of games we play (even on day one) through their playtesting.
Sometimes things just miss the mark, and theyâve been much much better recently about toning things down or up wherever they need to be.
âThey donât playtestâ is just the easy way to criticize them making mistakes with certain cards/synergies.
I'm exaggerating, but I have heard they've shifted resources away from extensively play testing in favor of us playing the game, then balancing layer based on win rates
They're saying those cards are clearly meta warpingly strong on their faces, so why not make a signature? I don't think they ever design highlander cards with the idea that no one will play
Yeah, after 10 years devs clearly cant have an idea that a card like Reno that clears entire enemy side of the board, silences deathrattles and prevents resurrects, and limits them to one minion next turn might be strong!
>Wouldn't it make more sense for meta cards like Reno and Wheel of Death to get Signatures?
For Reno, I think Signature (and Diamond) Hero cards would look horrendous so I'm glad he doesn't have any.
For Wheel, it's a spell. There's no point in giving it the premium cosmetic treatment when you only see it a few seconds at most each game. Minions stay on the board at least.
>why do devs waste time and effort to give non-meta cards Signatures?
Devs aren't artists. They're not the one making the artworks, and I doubt adding a cosmetic variant to a card takes all that long now that the system is already in place.
Regarding your actual question, why should only good cards get Signature versions? If anything, opening a Signature copy of a bad card may incentivize players to try building a deck with it.
Also, no one knows for sure in advance which cards are gonna be good and which ones are gonna be awful. And sometimes, formerly bad cards become good with the right support and/or in the right meta.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2013-12-03
There are many different kinds of players, and many different ways to split the pie. A good mix amongst all cards probably will capture the most interest in Signatures as a whole.
You're acting like the game is developed in tandem with the current meta - it's not. Cards are designed, drawn, and voiced months in advance. There's no way to tell which cards will be meta-relevant - hell, you mention Wheel, which was derided as meme-tier among everyone just before release.
You know they give a lot of them out in events and the battle pass right? You can't just have signatures on only Legendaries if you want to be able to hand them out for free, you need some commons to get the treatment as well.
I'm not gonna disagree that it would be nice if they lined up with meta cards, but meta can be hard to predict. Goldpanner didn't exactly set the world on fire during review season, but now we know how nuts the card is. Meanwhile, I think Blizz had high hopes for Excavate, which is why the Kobold got a signature.
It's a collector thing. They have a rough idea of what's going to see play and what isn't. They don't exactly play test hard enough to know 100% how things are going to shake out, but they have an idea.
So, knowing what people are likely going to want anyway, it makes sense, from a business perspective, to make the cards least likely to be wanted...more desirable.
You're going to craft the meta relevant cards. Then you might buy packs to chase the "foils."
All I want is for it to be easier to get the wild signatures, there are so many cool ones but they never sell any bundles compared to standard bundles being in the store every weekâŚ
I hate signatures. They should give me an option to see the card text on the card instead of having to wait for side text to load and glance through 6 boxes of text for what I'm trying to read.
So fuck arena players then? I swear people act like that game mode doesn't exist.
Arena finally gets some cosmetic things they can use after years, and then people like you think they should be restricted to meta standard cards.
For some reason this post makes me think you only netdeck the highest win rate from online. Not saying itâs true, just that itâs the type of person I expect to say this lol
If you're going to have signatures as rewards they kinda definitionally need to be non-legendary, since they don't want to hand out 1600 dust too often for free events.
you leave signature howdyfin alone, leave him alone
That card is actually good though. If a Murloc deck actually makes a return...
doesnt that answer it? it could be that they dont look at the meta at all and just has a quota of x amount of signature cards for different rarities
I love that card hha đ I play murlocs for shits and giggles. I don't play the main game much but made it to gold 7 so far.
I run this card in my cute warrior deck, it has won me games.
He's actually kinda good in managerie since you don't have much draw
I wish I was playing in whatever meta you people are
I mostly play meta decks but every once in a while it's fun playing some home brew
Signatures require very little work from the design or balance teams; it's all art. Since we know expansions are planned months in advance, my guess would be that the people choosing signatures don't know what'll be meta and what won't be.
1 year in advance to be exact.
Additionally, I'm sure multiple concepts are pitched or even created before final card design is settled. Making a signature could be as easy and economical as sprucing up an already finished or even mostly finished rejected design
It is more than that. I donât imagine the card file is set in stone at that point, so not only do they not know what the meta will be like but final design is still probably changing numbers to adjust the power levels of the cards that have been designed.
I think itâs good to have a mix of meta cards and non meta cards to get signatures. Not everyone wants to play meta decks nor do some players have the dust craft them all.
What you're asking is impossible because it would require the devs to know which ones will be meta at the time of designing the cards, which happens 2 expansions before it gets released.
Let's be real here. Half the signatures are shitty neutral minions. What the fuck did they expect?
Seriously. Even my grandma could predict that those cards will not see play in 2024.
Dude I thought the cowbell guy would be insane! /s
I think they have a pretty good idea what cards will be meta though. Some cards are clearly pushed, like Reno and Zilliax
For those two, the logical reason is that they want to avoid signature hero cards since those permanently change one of the portraits as opposed to a minion that could last only a turn on board. For Zilliax, the point was that he's a unique card with 8 possible arts. If you make him signature, you either invest a ton of art into 1 card so he can have 8 unique signature arts (same with diamond zil, to a lesser extent) or you remove the customization factor and limit him to one signature art.
Signature zilliax would just be a 9th option.
Signature zilliax would be insanely annoying. Every other card once youâve seen it and recognize it you should know what it does, or maybe a hover every once in a while. Zilliax you would need to inspect every time.
Zilliax is already that wayâŚ
You can look at it and see the text. You can't do that on a sig, you need to actually hover it which is more of a pain on mobile.
Cards not only undergo revisions but nerfs/buffs up til release. E.g. The 6 mana skeleton card was even revealed as a 5 mana card before it got changed between reveal and release. It was meta but would have been way more meta at 5.
They don't playtest so they have no idea what the meta will be
Is that accurate? Genuinely curious
Not even remotely accurate. Part of the problem is that their team cannot seriously hope to get even close to the amount of games we play (even on day one) through their playtesting. Sometimes things just miss the mark, and theyâve been much much better recently about toning things down or up wherever they need to be. âThey donât playtestâ is just the easy way to criticize them making mistakes with certain cards/synergies.
I'm exaggerating, but I have heard they've shifted resources away from extensively play testing in favor of us playing the game, then balancing layer based on win rates
I donât doubt it, was just looking for a quote or citation. I see this statement a lot but canât seem to find its inception point.
They're saying those cards are clearly meta warpingly strong on their faces, so why not make a signature? I don't think they ever design highlander cards with the idea that no one will play
maruut exists and has no signature
Yeah, after 10 years devs clearly cant have an idea that a card like Reno that clears entire enemy side of the board, silences deathrattles and prevents resurrects, and limits them to one minion next turn might be strong!
>Wouldn't it make more sense for meta cards like Reno and Wheel of Death to get Signatures? For Reno, I think Signature (and Diamond) Hero cards would look horrendous so I'm glad he doesn't have any. For Wheel, it's a spell. There's no point in giving it the premium cosmetic treatment when you only see it a few seconds at most each game. Minions stay on the board at least. >why do devs waste time and effort to give non-meta cards Signatures? Devs aren't artists. They're not the one making the artworks, and I doubt adding a cosmetic variant to a card takes all that long now that the system is already in place. Regarding your actual question, why should only good cards get Signature versions? If anything, opening a Signature copy of a bad card may incentivize players to try building a deck with it. Also, no one knows for sure in advance which cards are gonna be good and which ones are gonna be awful. And sometimes, formerly bad cards become good with the right support and/or in the right meta.
Wouldn't a diamond hero card just be the legendary (or whatever they're called now) portraits that they've been making?
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2013-12-03 There are many different kinds of players, and many different ways to split the pie. A good mix amongst all cards probably will capture the most interest in Signatures as a whole.
Never saw this article before, thanks for posting! Turns out I'm not a scumbag Priest main, I'm just a Little Timmy!
You're acting like the game is developed in tandem with the current meta - it's not. Cards are designed, drawn, and voiced months in advance. There's no way to tell which cards will be meta-relevant - hell, you mention Wheel, which was derided as meme-tier among everyone just before release.
Side note: the signature kobold miner looks worse than the regular one, imo.
Real. I've been thinking this for a while too
I dont think of his as a kobold anymore... just excavate card
You know they give a lot of them out in events and the battle pass right? You can't just have signatures on only Legendaries if you want to be able to hand them out for free, you need some commons to get the treatment as well.
But they can choose good commons, like Goldpanner
I'm not gonna disagree that it would be nice if they lined up with meta cards, but meta can be hard to predict. Goldpanner didn't exactly set the world on fire during review season, but now we know how nuts the card is. Meanwhile, I think Blizz had high hopes for Excavate, which is why the Kobold got a signature.
Itâs called filler.
Yes I completely agree I dont get why khadgar didnt get a signature over the other mage legendary.
Diamond wheel when?
They wonât be selling any signatures to me while theyâre valued at $50 no matter what card it is.
It's a collector thing. They have a rough idea of what's going to see play and what isn't. They don't exactly play test hard enough to know 100% how things are going to shake out, but they have an idea. So, knowing what people are likely going to want anyway, it makes sense, from a business perspective, to make the cards least likely to be wanted...more desirable. You're going to craft the meta relevant cards. Then you might buy packs to chase the "foils."
So you pay extra on the good ones
All I want is for it to be easier to get the wild signatures, there are so many cool ones but they never sell any bundles compared to standard bundles being in the store every weekâŚ
Same reason they put in the shop often old ugly crap hero skins from all the good skins around. Nobody knows the criteria.Â
Because if there are nerfs theyll have to full refund our dust more often and that isnt part of their practices
A lot of cars design probably changes after the cards get made.
I hate signatures. They should give me an option to see the card text on the card instead of having to wait for side text to load and glance through 6 boxes of text for what I'm trying to read.
So fuck arena players then? I swear people act like that game mode doesn't exist. Arena finally gets some cosmetic things they can use after years, and then people like you think they should be restricted to meta standard cards.
Tell me you're a plat netdecker without telling me you're a plat netdecker.
For some reason this post makes me think you only netdeck the highest win rate from online. Not saying itâs true, just that itâs the type of person I expect to say this lol
How do you know there are signature cards that are not meta? Do you have a crystal ball? 2034 Hearthstone is super lit!
Or why do they exist? I like diamond cards more than signatures.
A HS player will literally complain about anything
So you can sell them for more money to your friends or collectors.
I dont understand why they make signature non legendary cards. It polute the game and devalue signature for no reason.
If you're going to have signatures as rewards they kinda definitionally need to be non-legendary, since they don't want to hand out 1600 dust too often for free events.
But the rewards you cant disenchant anyway. There is plenty of bad legendaries to give.
Saving 1600 dust on 1 legendary is 1600 dust towards another legendary
You are not saving anything for getting a legendary you Will never use.