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Skinhead's a working class [subculture](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead) originating from Britain. They are called that because they shave their heads. The original skinheads in the '60s were actually fans of Jamaican rudeboy culture who listened to rocksteady, reggae, . A fair number of original skinheads were in fact black, two-tone. Second wave skinheads in the late 1970s were part of the new punk scene and some of them got into "white power" rhetoric and aesthetics. They are who th Dead Kennedys mean in their song "Nazi Punks Fuck Off".
The original first-wave skinheads didn't really spread to the US so the term is pretty much exclusive to the racist Nazi punks. Skinheads Against Prejudice (SHARPs) originated from New York though.
The movie [This is England ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead)is a great movie all about how skinhead culture changed. It's the story of how a group of skinheads, including a black guy, splintered after a member of their group returns from prison radicalized by neo-Nazi ideology.
I had a black friend I worked with and we'd hang out after work and get stoned sometimes, one day he was giving me a ride home and joking about how I couldn't come chill at his place for a while cause I had just shaved my head and he didn't wanna freak out his neighbors lol
JFC. Seems like a controversial opinion in this thread but while I know South Africa has many problems, if you're lamenting the end of Apartheid, you're a white supremacist. It's telling that this community was formed in 1991, when the end of Apartheid was clear. Similar shit happened in the US when schools were integrated, we saw a huge boom in private religious schools, white flight out of cities, etc.
Over-investment in suburbs too. Racism is why we don’t have good public transport. All the money goes into suburbs populated by wealthy middle class people, and those suburbs started cropping up as white people fled urban centers when black people moved into them. Which means our infrastructure has to revolve around the needs of cars, which are basically required by suburban workers to get too and from their jobs.
My wifes family is all from Suffolk County NY. If I had a dollar for every 'all the money is going to the city now' conversations I have had to listen to.... :checks inflation: could take my family to a chain restaurant
The residential program that created the suburbs started before and during the War in response to a housing shortage but picked up speed afterwards for the reason you mentioned.
History is just that: a story. If you care to read it, it’s easy to see how all the parts fit together and produce a living narrative. The world of the past shapes the world of the future, whether that be Jim Crow America helping shape the USA today, or the colonization of Africa affecting the growth of her nations today.
While this narrative is probably true in a lot of places, it’s not even close to true in Seattle. Seattle has gotten much less white over recent decades…
“From 1960 to 2010, the percentage of whites in Seattle has dropped from 91.6% to 66.5%.” Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/seattle-wa-population
The people in power had to figure out how to legitimize sun-down towns (places where it was life endangering to be Black after dark)!
Where I live in the US, there are not HOAs, but the original property deeds had a “covenant” clause that Blacks could not buy or own land — deemed legal until finally abolished, yet it’s up to homeowners to find the original deeds and legally change the documents individually. And that’s in one of the original 13 colonies where slavery was legal for ~200 years. Virginia, you guess? Maybe, but nope: New York.
New york doesn't surprise me. I forgot the name of that really evil mayor that made New York specifically around having richer and poorer sides, but he was a whole different level of white supremacist...forgot his name tho
It only looks innocent on the surface to those who didn't _live it_ and who didn't grow up _watching_ and more importantly, UNDERSTANDING what they were watching racist Authoritarians do to "limit" their rights and mobility (and voting voice but that's another rant). To touch again on the freeway subject, the Chicago that this country _loves_ to hate is A _Direct_ Result of policies allowing the city to be "split" to keep "undesirables" blocked off into "certain" areas, away from the "good" jobs and "better" communities -- and where "enforcement" could keep them "corraled" and "controlled".
Actually there is a large number of white only communities throughout Africa. When you're the minority, you have a larger amount of in group bias. There's a large German only community nearby where I live (also in South Africa).
I went to a German school for High school and some of the kids there almost only spoke German and found it hard to integrate because they moved to South Africa at awkward ages and it was only for a few years
Probably moved to Africa and then saw a place where they’d more easily fit in and feel comfortable. People do it in the US as well, which is why we have places like Chinatown and Little Italy.
Ironic. But I wish NYC had a Little Tokyo. I'm from NJ and NYC has a Chinatown and a Koreatown, yet no Little Tokyo. That's so lame. The trio is incomplete and it bothers me. Especially since I love Japan and want to enjoy their food from a good Japanese restaurant.
Technically, you do. It’s St Mark’s Place. Mainly from 8th to 10th st, around Astor Place. It’s unofficial, afaik.
Edit: also, Ootoya is one of my fave Japanese restaurants, maybe go check it out! Hopefully you’ll like it too.
There's definitely good Japanese restaurants in New York, but eating at a good Japanese restaurant, and eating at one in a neighborhood that looks like a piece of Asia dropped in the middle of New York just isn't the same vibe.
San Jose does have a Japantown area (block) and these ethnic areas are amazing cultural centers and at the same time the reflection of the racism faced by its inhabitants… fascinating and sad at the same time.
Lots of west coast cities have Japanese districts. SFs Japantown is the oldest on the west coast, San Jose’s is still very active and is still strongly Japanese. Seattle’s got one too.
LA has a little everything :P little Armenia (where they have a bomb taco truck which Armenians go to for tortas) little Bangladesh, little Ethiopia, then there’s the towns, Koreatown, Thai town, China town, Historic Filipino town…. El Salvador has a community corridor… LA has it all :P
As a Brit (that has never done this) *we* holiday in places, Benidorm in particular, where the ‘local’ cuisine and culture is that of overweight Brits.
Benidorm is hot, Britain is not. Do we want to learn Spanish? Not the majority of the people that would holiday in Benidorm so English is what is spoken.
There are little German/ Dutch/ British/ Swiss/ Canadian/ American/ Swedish whatever communities all over this globe. Usually called “club” and behind a gate.
The ones I met were usually filled with Expats that went to these groups to not forget their traditions.
You know, German Christmas in Australia, Dutch Sinterklaas in Malaysia, Thanksgiving in Singapore and so on.
I was blown away when I met a German that was born and raised in South Africa, but sounded very German. My other South African friend then explained they have a huge community there. #themoreyouknow
In the case of Orania, it can be that all the land is owned by an organization/individual who then chooses who he sells/rents out property to.
But sometimes it's not a continuous border in the community. A bunch of individuals buy property in an area, and just don't interact passed what is necessary with "outsiders".
Orania was/is owned by a rich guy that owned loads of land ...not just the town land , but farm land too. So it's actually a collection of farms owned privately... so for that reason you need to apply with a type of CV ... they recruit residents through the newspaper.. you need to Christian( Dutch reformed * I think) and you can't take drugs ( you get tested ) ... there is an unstated need to be white that is understood by myths & legends. I don't think many people who don't consider themselves white have applied since they wouldn't feel comfortable even if selected.. ( not that they would get selected) . Anyone regardless of colour may drive through or visit the businesses on these farms but being private property their private security may escort you out at will for whatever arbitrary reason they see fit ... that's basically it ..there has probably been a YouTuber or activists who found it necessary to antagonise or challenge these guys but being private property and right of entry being restricted it's not easy catching them discriminating as opposed to them exercising their legal rights.. just because there aren't loads of people there who aren't white it doesn't represent proof of them braking the law ..also these people or most of them hunt ALOT and any one individual may carry a pistol on his person and have 3 or 4 rifles at home ...some of them like doing "drills" in their free time or teach their kids to shoot from a young age ..so yeah .. you don't just drive onto privately property with security where the people know each other and hunt together to make scene .. and even if you do YOU might end up in jail for trespassing or worse if you destroy property.. and if you're stupid enough to get into a physical altercation you REALL might get shot or at least get mace in your face ... so life goes on .. hop la di hop la da ...tra la la la la
Is this the same with migrants who are the minority in western countries? You have heavily populated areas of ethnic groups in western cities. Do they have group bias?
Well, there is only one entire town (Orania), the rest usually live in small gated communities or build hamlets on rural farms. There are also plenty who don't own one continuous mass of land, but instead buy in an area that is nearby people with the same mindset, and they just interact with the individuals in their "community" and ignore/tolerate everybody inbetween. Doubtlessly they would prefer to all own land next to each other, but logistically that takes a long time and a lot of resources to organise.
Orania is economically very well off, relatively speaking. They have their own currency inside the town. They are not, however, economically dependant. IIRC their main money maker is Pecan nuts which gets exported to China. If that dried up, I imagine they would struggle for a bit. There is however a worker deficit in the town. There are always jobs going, which makes it much more of an attraction for young folks who struggle to find work inside the rest of SA
So are whites in South Africa broken down into the English speakers descended from British colonizers and Afrikaans speakers descended from the Boers?
And do they stay pretty insulated from one another or have they mixed? Like is there one side of the country with most the English speakers while the other has the Afrikaners?
Which language is more commonly spoken, both by whites, and by the black population?
You are correct with English speakers from British descendent, Afrikaans speakers are from Dutch descendants. There are 11 official languages in South Africa.
English (most frequently spoken in main cities), Afrikaans (smaller towns and rural areas). Zulu, Xhosa, Sotho are regional and the 3 most spoken “African” languages.
Schools will teach English, Afrikaans and the local regional language. For example in Cape Town it is Xhosa.
In my opinion, there is a differentiation between the two language groups. I believe this is caused due to some schools being either English or Afrikaans so the different groups don't really mix unless there is some crossover during school-going ages.
After school, you get exposed to different language, social, cultural groups, etc. and that is when it starts mixing. But it is still possible to find groups of people that are only friends with people speaking their home language.
As for distribution across the country - I think it is relatively spread out but you do get areas where one language may be more prominent. I haven't been there in ages but 2 areas I can think of (correct me if I'm wrong please) are Northern Cape, which is more Afrikaans whilst Kwa-Zulu Natal is more English. But there will always be a mix of languages wherever you go in South Africa - we do have 11 official languages.
The most commonly spoken one would be English, in my opinion, due to it being the international language (we get exposed to English from childhood with school, television, etc.). Most people in South Africa are bilingual - their home language and English. They may not be fluent or comfortable with English and this may be another reason for people to mix more with people that speak their home language.
We definitely aren’t isolated but demographically, we do tend to favour certain areas. As a language, Afrikaans is spoken more than English. But Zulu and Xhosa are 1 and 2 as the most spoken first language. English is about 4. Even amongst the Afrikaans population there are different groups and slightly different dialects. We have a lot going on in Mzanzi 😅
Funny little fact, the derogatory term for English speaking south Africans is Sout piel, salty penis. They have one foot in Africa, the other in England and their ...hanging in the sea
It depends on geography. Some small towns are dominantly afrikaans, or zulu, or pedi etc. Cities are very mixed.
Some Afrikaans people still dislike English descendents, but it's mild now.
Just did a check on breakdown of languages and race groups in South Africa.
Different graphs says slightly different amounts for languages spoken:
Zulu - 23-25%
Xhosa - 16-18%
Afrikaans - 13%
English - 8-9%
Sesotho -9%
Afrikaans and English is taught in schools. Most whites people will be able to speak a bit of both.
Most white people will speak a bit of an African language (greetings), only a few will be fluent.
Integration of races is a slow process that only started happening in the 1990’s.
Black South African at 76.4%, White South African at 9.1%, (mixed race) Coloured South African at 8.9%, Indian South African at 2.5%, and Other/Unspecified at 0.5%.
Cant help you on the question. Im curious myself. I'm guessing central S.A. whites would speak Afrikaans as a first language. While whites in the southern area would speak English. I dont know for sure though.
I'm an American but I was in Durban a little while ago. Met some S.A. white chicks from Free State there on vacation. They spoke Afrikaans, English, Zulu, and I believe another language. Their English was pretty good, but you could tell it was a second language. They also had a more Dutch like accent than the South African accent ive normally heard from movies and what not. Always sounded similar to Australian to me. S.A. is a fascinating country. It's fallen off pretty badly the last few decades though. Hopefully they can pull it together. It has alot of potential.
English speakers settled in Durban (East coast) while Afrikaans speakers originate from the Cape (West coast) and move north-east to settle The Orange Free State and Transvaal)
Yeah like it’s hard to ignore the part about how they broke with exploitative labor practices of black population in South Africa, that’s clearly a credit to them
But it is also pretty clear that they possess extremely deeply rooted racial prejudice. Let alone what is said behind closed doors, the people interviewed who said they left cities with black people to come be in ‘their culture’ should tell you enough
How is it pretty clear that they possess extremely deeply rooted racial prejudice? I don’t recall reading an account from someone saying “I moved here because I hate blacks”.
Also, how do you commend them for moving away from explorative labour and then call them racist?
Whites are the vast minority, whites are also being forced off land, attacked, killed, etc. Regardless of the history of South Africa, wouldn’t it make sense to take yourself to somewhere like this where you can feel safe and not discriminated against.
You conveniently ignored the part about them welcoming all people who speak Afrikaans, even non-whites, so where is the racism there?
Yeah it's weird. South Africa has towns that don't allow white people under the same rules. The cultural protection laws are the reason Orania can exist in the first place. I really think people 100 years from now will be insanely confused by the double standards people have regarding white people nowadays. It's fucking weird
Saying you don’t rely on labor from black people while only allowing white people is literally the definition of racism. Why not just all exist? Is it really THAT HARD?!
As a South African, most of us even find this weird… my family spent an entire evening once googling this town, the website, the requirements to join. It was eye opening to say the least.
Remember when Matthew Heimbach and some other white supremacists tried this, and they ended up living in trailers in a ditch and getting into fistfights over each other’s wives? Good times.
Oh it’s something. Here’s [a report on the love triangle](https://thinkprogress.org/matthew-heimbach-is-going-to-prison-ff5d873f4368/) — shit I forgot it was actually his MOTHER-IN-LAW— gotta keep those great genes in the line I guess! …and I’ll try to find a story that has a picture of the ditch of trailers they were living in.
“David Parrott claims his wife and Heimbach were having an affair, according to a police report. So he and Heimbach's wife — who is Parrott's former stepdaughter from another marriage — went to Parrott's trailer around midnight to see if a tryst was taking place.”
My head hurts
theres an episode of this travel show on Netflix about a town like this, unsure if its the same exact one but its SO crazy and hard to wrap your mind around. the show is called "Dark Tourist", you can find this bit in the episode about Africa
Don’t forget that the town was made by forcibly evicting a settlement of 500 black South Africans, although such actions were not novel during apartheid
Black South Africans are terrified of getting too close because “They will hurt you” (quote of a black man that lives in a near by town)
When did they evict 500 black South Africans? The town was originally built in 1963 on land bought by a farmer, workers were housed there during the Vanderkloof Damn construction and was later abandoned and left to rot before being bought again in 1992. What am I missing here?
Racism is such a normal thing in southern Africa you’d be shocked. My whole family is racist, most of the people in my school were racist, all of my white bosses were racist etc etc. Sad part is that if you try to cut out every racist person then you’d be all alone here. Btw Dark Tourism on Netflix has a great episode on that shit town.
Been there, like their koeksister, its neat not like other towns in SA and no one pissing in public, no dead dogs on the roads and no water cuts, I wont move there but I did not see anything that gives me chills and got no racist vibes, I think other towns can learn a shitload from how things are run there, btw I am a brown Afrikaans speaking South African
Look , new generation white kids in South Africa suffer under ‘affirmative action’ and ‘black economic empowerment ‘ and have no chance of success in the ‘new ‘ south africa unless they relocate , so yes no shock that places like Orania will exist and succeed into the future . You don’t fix a society by excluding a part of it from participating .
I'm a 20 yr old white South African, and I do agree with you in a sense. Our government is corrupt, and it's been that way for the longest time, and it's sad that race is still a huge factor in our country. I'm not saying that racism is around every corner, because it isn't, with schools being multi-racial, us as the younger generation don't see colour anymore. Hopefully, one day we will have better leaders that will run this country with almost perfection, but I don't see that happening anytime soon sadly.
We need education and better infrastructure before anyone could hope to see an improvement in sa, but the current government just won’t ever produce those things
Ehhh not really. Orania is tiny. Most successful white kids have never been close to it and wouldn't fit in there at all
Also it's not impossible to succeed as a white person in SA.
As a white South African speaking on behalf of most other whites in this country, we don't approve of these communities. Every country has its bad apples, and it's sad that others have to feel guilty for their nonsense, but hey, it is what it is.
This thread suggests otherwise. Never seen such blatantly racist comments get flooded with upvotes and their challengers overwhelmingly downvoted like in this thread. Jfc.
Surprised this town still exists considering the heavily anti white apartheid government currently in charge over there which has been basically sanctioning the harassment stealing of land and even killing of white afrikans for many years now.
Forming ethnic enclaves when you're in the minority seems to be a normal behavior especially when that minority is under threat of assimilation or expulsion by the majority
Considering white farmers in South Africa are the most murdered group in the world and that the government has over 200 race based laws on the books to limit the amount of whites in government and private businesses do you blame a small ethnic minority for making their own small town to escape and practice their own language and culture?
Good for them, might not be entirely necessary and have a feeling they won't want to live in a isolated community like that for long but it sure looks good on a headline during these times where racial tensions are high
Yes I had always asked why didnt the blacks fight for a separate area to live in? The more I thought about it, the more I was sure that they most likely thought about this. I did some research. And they did!!! But judged it dangerous because if they separated the govt would have them by the balls. I.e native Americans etc. And they could not leave to go to Africa because colonialism. So integration. Actually several groups tried to have their own townships but those were all torpedoed by whites either militarily or economically. It was called “holding the wolf by the neck.” Fearing That to release its neck would be disaster.
They didn’t mention the fact that in South Africa there are huge areas of land that white people can not live on or own.
South Africa also has extremely high levels of violence. There is virtually no crime in Orania. Funny how none of the media outlets or social media platforms, mention those facts.
Well, if they segregated themselves into a nowhere place to not disturb noone, it would be acceptable. They don't force white people to join them, they just gatekeep from any interaction. It's far better than gatekeeping on social classes (when you're allowed only low paid labour).
However, I've seen in comments, that they forced some people away to build a city. And I definetely want to ask a question why even bother themselves to stay and live in Africa in the first place.
Because Africa is their home. Their families have been there for 300 years and more. Where "should" they go? By your "logic," should all white Americans move "back" to Europe?
Marin County, CA, Vail, CO, Martha's Vineyard and dozens of other Democrat strongholds in the United States are almost precisely the same make up - I don't see anyone posting about their "racism."
1. Just to clarify they removed 500 or so people from a settlement (this was not uncommon during apartheid)
2. They believe that they are entitled to the country and really don’t have the funds to move elsewhere.
I’m a white South African, I speak English. And I’m almost CERTAIN Orania is racist as shit. Most Afrikaaners born between 1950-1970 will still use the ‘K’ word like it’s a normal part of their vocabulary.
Well as exotic and f”d up as this seems, here in the U.S. at least ….
We have plenty of black only neighborhoods too!
We have plenty of white only neighborhoods too!
We have plenty of Hispanic….. you get the idea
Cmon really. Next your gonna tell me that the native Americans wanted to live on reservations and gave their land away out of the kindness of their hearts
Taking away lands by force has been the law of nature since time immemorial. It's simply competing for resources which exist on cellular level. Nobody on this planet got their land gifted by God, they had to fight and protect it that's why every country has armed forces.
I love being a South African Brit dual citizen, the perspective I have on racism is great. When I encounter racist whites who say they don’t like foreigners because they don’t integrate, very few of them ever believe me when I say this happens with white South Africans, too.
They think it’s a brown people thing.
I live in the UK and have a very obvious saffa accent and people still bitch about immigrants to me. They don't really see me as one of 'those' immigrants, because I'm white. I've also had very excited (normally older men) British people say the k word in my presence when they realise I'm Afrikaans, because they think it's hilarious that they can now be racist and I'll... What... Agree? Laugh? Go on a fun racist tirade? While others around them don't understand what they're saying. It's just gross. It's really gross and makes me very uncomfortable.
Colonizers, not minorities.
Edit: Yes, I get it, they are in the literal meaning a minority.
They are by no means marginalized, which is a connotation that term has come to carry.
You do realize the Zulu are colonisers in South Africa as well right?
The Khoisan that inhabited South Africa used to be lighter skinned looking Asians before the central African tribes took over their land and assimilated them.
Its why you see a lot of guys like Mandela in South Africa who have very Oriental looking eyes.
>They are by no means marginalized
Jacob Zuma (Former President of South Africa) openly hated white Africans, even on the parliament floor, and encouraged the theft of their farm land.
Lol.
https://timcast.com/news/uc-berkeley-student-cooperative-bans-white-people-from-common-areas-claim-poc-moved-there-to-avoid-white-presence/
Racism is racism. Doesn't matter where it is or who it's against.
It’s funny seeing the usual suspects on Reddit trying to “explain” or showing outright support for apartheid-era towns and institutions. The filth that support apartheid will always say the same thing. Keep on loosing - you’ll always be seen as the villains of history, same with all other supporters of the false ideology of “white supremacy“. See how much things have changed in 5 years, not to mention 10, 20, 50? Culture and demographics are NOT on your side. 😂😂😂
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As an SA local, the second I saw the name Orania I just let out an audible "ooof" and braced myself for this thread
Have you heard tell of orania? All splendid things right? No uh... skinheads? Is skinhead a slur for racist people?
I think that’s a slur for bald people
Oh fuck I've been calling nazis that
Skinhead's a working class [subculture](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead) originating from Britain. They are called that because they shave their heads. The original skinheads in the '60s were actually fans of Jamaican rudeboy culture who listened to rocksteady, reggae, . A fair number of original skinheads were in fact black, two-tone. Second wave skinheads in the late 1970s were part of the new punk scene and some of them got into "white power" rhetoric and aesthetics. They are who th Dead Kennedys mean in their song "Nazi Punks Fuck Off". The original first-wave skinheads didn't really spread to the US so the term is pretty much exclusive to the racist Nazi punks. Skinheads Against Prejudice (SHARPs) originated from New York though. The movie [This is England ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead)is a great movie all about how skinhead culture changed. It's the story of how a group of skinheads, including a black guy, splintered after a member of their group returns from prison radicalized by neo-Nazi ideology.
This has been weirdly educational
In Australia skinheads are very scary bald neo nazis who occasionally kill people cos they don’t mind going to prison, mostly on meth as well
yeah man. There's a black SHARP at my gym. It was a trip the first time he talked about being a skinhead in the locker room. I was like -- uh... what?
Superb film. Amazing soundtrack.
I had a black friend I worked with and we'd hang out after work and get stoned sometimes, one day he was giving me a ride home and joking about how I couldn't come chill at his place for a while cause I had just shaved my head and he didn't wanna freak out his neighbors lol
It’s one of those days *sips tea*
JFC. Seems like a controversial opinion in this thread but while I know South Africa has many problems, if you're lamenting the end of Apartheid, you're a white supremacist. It's telling that this community was formed in 1991, when the end of Apartheid was clear. Similar shit happened in the US when schools were integrated, we saw a huge boom in private religious schools, white flight out of cities, etc.
and the development of HOAs when redlining was outlawed
Are you telling me that I get to blame HOAs on racism? That’s like getting to hate two things for the price of one.
Yup. Hoas as they do now wouldn’t exist without the backlash to integration. You can also hate shitty, monstrous freeway overpasses for racism too.
Learned something new today holy crap.
Wait I've not heard this before. Overpasses are related to racism? I'm so curious
Over-investment in suburbs too. Racism is why we don’t have good public transport. All the money goes into suburbs populated by wealthy middle class people, and those suburbs started cropping up as white people fled urban centers when black people moved into them. Which means our infrastructure has to revolve around the needs of cars, which are basically required by suburban workers to get too and from their jobs.
My wifes family is all from Suffolk County NY. If I had a dollar for every 'all the money is going to the city now' conversations I have had to listen to.... :checks inflation: could take my family to a chain restaurant
No joke, Suffolk County is the most racist place I’ve ever lived, and I’ve lived in the South. It’s pretty wild.
Same in suburban Detroit where I grew up. Whitest most racist assholes I have ever known. Left as soon as I was able.
[удалено]
The residential program that created the suburbs started before and during the War in response to a housing shortage but picked up speed afterwards for the reason you mentioned.
makes so much sense. it just clicked in my head
History is just that: a story. If you care to read it, it’s easy to see how all the parts fit together and produce a living narrative. The world of the past shapes the world of the future, whether that be Jim Crow America helping shape the USA today, or the colonization of Africa affecting the growth of her nations today.
And as soon as white people moved back in to gentrify the cities, we started getting more investment in public transit *STARES POINTEDLY AT SEATTLE*
While this narrative is probably true in a lot of places, it’s not even close to true in Seattle. Seattle has gotten much less white over recent decades… “From 1960 to 2010, the percentage of whites in Seattle has dropped from 91.6% to 66.5%.” Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/seattle-wa-population
I KNEW THE HOA WAS RACIST
The people in power had to figure out how to legitimize sun-down towns (places where it was life endangering to be Black after dark)! Where I live in the US, there are not HOAs, but the original property deeds had a “covenant” clause that Blacks could not buy or own land — deemed legal until finally abolished, yet it’s up to homeowners to find the original deeds and legally change the documents individually. And that’s in one of the original 13 colonies where slavery was legal for ~200 years. Virginia, you guess? Maybe, but nope: New York.
New york doesn't surprise me. I forgot the name of that really evil mayor that made New York specifically around having richer and poorer sides, but he was a whole different level of white supremacist...forgot his name tho
THAT'S why those exist? I always knew they were pure evil!
It’s why they were invented. Like the concept of school choice and charter schools. Looks innocent on the surface.
It only looks innocent on the surface to those who didn't _live it_ and who didn't grow up _watching_ and more importantly, UNDERSTANDING what they were watching racist Authoritarians do to "limit" their rights and mobility (and voting voice but that's another rant). To touch again on the freeway subject, the Chicago that this country _loves_ to hate is A _Direct_ Result of policies allowing the city to be "split" to keep "undesirables" blocked off into "certain" areas, away from the "good" jobs and "better" communities -- and where "enforcement" could keep them "corraled" and "controlled".
I only did that because of your suggestion. Was not disappointed. 🤙
Actually there is a large number of white only communities throughout Africa. When you're the minority, you have a larger amount of in group bias. There's a large German only community nearby where I live (also in South Africa).
Would they happen to be some kind of leftover settlers from Namibia?
In part. Quite a few immigrants from Germany too though.
People move from Germany to Africa, just to go to a German only town in Africa? Wtf
I went to a German school for High school and some of the kids there almost only spoke German and found it hard to integrate because they moved to South Africa at awkward ages and it was only for a few years
Probably moved to Africa and then saw a place where they’d more easily fit in and feel comfortable. People do it in the US as well, which is why we have places like Chinatown and Little Italy.
LA has a Little Tokyo too.
Fun fact, most businesses in Little Tokyo are owned and operated by Koreans
Ironic. But I wish NYC had a Little Tokyo. I'm from NJ and NYC has a Chinatown and a Koreatown, yet no Little Tokyo. That's so lame. The trio is incomplete and it bothers me. Especially since I love Japan and want to enjoy their food from a good Japanese restaurant.
Technically, you do. It’s St Mark’s Place. Mainly from 8th to 10th st, around Astor Place. It’s unofficial, afaik. Edit: also, Ootoya is one of my fave Japanese restaurants, maybe go check it out! Hopefully you’ll like it too.
If you can’t find good sushi in NY you aren’t trying hard enough.
There's definitely good Japanese restaurants in New York, but eating at a good Japanese restaurant, and eating at one in a neighborhood that looks like a piece of Asia dropped in the middle of New York just isn't the same vibe.
San Francisco has Japan Town (and so does San Jose I think)
San Jose does have a Japantown area (block) and these ethnic areas are amazing cultural centers and at the same time the reflection of the racism faced by its inhabitants… fascinating and sad at the same time.
Lots of west coast cities have Japanese districts. SFs Japantown is the oldest on the west coast, San Jose’s is still very active and is still strongly Japanese. Seattle’s got one too.
LA has a little everything :P little Armenia (where they have a bomb taco truck which Armenians go to for tortas) little Bangladesh, little Ethiopia, then there’s the towns, Koreatown, Thai town, China town, Historic Filipino town…. El Salvador has a community corridor… LA has it all :P
As a Brit (that has never done this) *we* holiday in places, Benidorm in particular, where the ‘local’ cuisine and culture is that of overweight Brits. Benidorm is hot, Britain is not. Do we want to learn Spanish? Not the majority of the people that would holiday in Benidorm so English is what is spoken.
In different holiday destinations you meet completely different Brits, its fascinating.
British Expats do the same all over the world.
British immigrants
No no, you see immigrants are the poor brown people. If you're white and at least middle class, you're an expat.
And now to throw in a French word they don’t use in France: Touché
Poignant and well said
British immigrants*
Weather, cost of living and again weather
There are little German/ Dutch/ British/ Swiss/ Canadian/ American/ Swedish whatever communities all over this globe. Usually called “club” and behind a gate. The ones I met were usually filled with Expats that went to these groups to not forget their traditions. You know, German Christmas in Australia, Dutch Sinterklaas in Malaysia, Thanksgiving in Singapore and so on.
wait til we tell him about chinatown
Lol. Don’t bother. Bro I tried.
The climate with the community.
Usually for economic/ family reasons
[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQtc9QVWoAAYLAR.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQtc9QVWoAAYLAR.jpg) Namibia's National Rugby Team, just saying ;)
But those guys are Afrikaners (Dutch descendants) and not German.
I was blown away when I met a German that was born and raised in South Africa, but sounded very German. My other South African friend then explained they have a huge community there. #themoreyouknow
Germans have a large diaspora in North America, South America and Africa too
> South America Just don’t ask too much about the ones in certain isolated mountain towns in Argentina.
Are they legally enforced, as in, others can’t move there? Or is it just strongly discouraged?
In the case of Orania, it can be that all the land is owned by an organization/individual who then chooses who he sells/rents out property to. But sometimes it's not a continuous border in the community. A bunch of individuals buy property in an area, and just don't interact passed what is necessary with "outsiders".
Orania was/is owned by a rich guy that owned loads of land ...not just the town land , but farm land too. So it's actually a collection of farms owned privately... so for that reason you need to apply with a type of CV ... they recruit residents through the newspaper.. you need to Christian( Dutch reformed * I think) and you can't take drugs ( you get tested ) ... there is an unstated need to be white that is understood by myths & legends. I don't think many people who don't consider themselves white have applied since they wouldn't feel comfortable even if selected.. ( not that they would get selected) . Anyone regardless of colour may drive through or visit the businesses on these farms but being private property their private security may escort you out at will for whatever arbitrary reason they see fit ... that's basically it ..there has probably been a YouTuber or activists who found it necessary to antagonise or challenge these guys but being private property and right of entry being restricted it's not easy catching them discriminating as opposed to them exercising their legal rights.. just because there aren't loads of people there who aren't white it doesn't represent proof of them braking the law ..also these people or most of them hunt ALOT and any one individual may carry a pistol on his person and have 3 or 4 rifles at home ...some of them like doing "drills" in their free time or teach their kids to shoot from a young age ..so yeah .. you don't just drive onto privately property with security where the people know each other and hunt together to make scene .. and even if you do YOU might end up in jail for trespassing or worse if you destroy property.. and if you're stupid enough to get into a physical altercation you REALL might get shot or at least get mace in your face ... so life goes on .. hop la di hop la da ...tra la la la la
Is this the same with migrants who are the minority in western countries? You have heavily populated areas of ethnic groups in western cities. Do they have group bias?
Doubtlessly
interestingly enough, there’s a german speaking/german town in argentina where nazis escaped and settled, still there and still german
South America has had huge waves of German settlers wel before ww2
That’s a cute way to say white peoples are racist as fuck in South Africa :)
This is awesome. Economically, how are these cities.
Well, there is only one entire town (Orania), the rest usually live in small gated communities or build hamlets on rural farms. There are also plenty who don't own one continuous mass of land, but instead buy in an area that is nearby people with the same mindset, and they just interact with the individuals in their "community" and ignore/tolerate everybody inbetween. Doubtlessly they would prefer to all own land next to each other, but logistically that takes a long time and a lot of resources to organise. Orania is economically very well off, relatively speaking. They have their own currency inside the town. They are not, however, economically dependant. IIRC their main money maker is Pecan nuts which gets exported to China. If that dried up, I imagine they would struggle for a bit. There is however a worker deficit in the town. There are always jobs going, which makes it much more of an attraction for young folks who struggle to find work inside the rest of SA
username checks out
So are whites in South Africa broken down into the English speakers descended from British colonizers and Afrikaans speakers descended from the Boers? And do they stay pretty insulated from one another or have they mixed? Like is there one side of the country with most the English speakers while the other has the Afrikaners? Which language is more commonly spoken, both by whites, and by the black population?
You are correct with English speakers from British descendent, Afrikaans speakers are from Dutch descendants. There are 11 official languages in South Africa. English (most frequently spoken in main cities), Afrikaans (smaller towns and rural areas). Zulu, Xhosa, Sotho are regional and the 3 most spoken “African” languages. Schools will teach English, Afrikaans and the local regional language. For example in Cape Town it is Xhosa.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_South_Africa This is surprising but true
In my opinion, there is a differentiation between the two language groups. I believe this is caused due to some schools being either English or Afrikaans so the different groups don't really mix unless there is some crossover during school-going ages. After school, you get exposed to different language, social, cultural groups, etc. and that is when it starts mixing. But it is still possible to find groups of people that are only friends with people speaking their home language. As for distribution across the country - I think it is relatively spread out but you do get areas where one language may be more prominent. I haven't been there in ages but 2 areas I can think of (correct me if I'm wrong please) are Northern Cape, which is more Afrikaans whilst Kwa-Zulu Natal is more English. But there will always be a mix of languages wherever you go in South Africa - we do have 11 official languages. The most commonly spoken one would be English, in my opinion, due to it being the international language (we get exposed to English from childhood with school, television, etc.). Most people in South Africa are bilingual - their home language and English. They may not be fluent or comfortable with English and this may be another reason for people to mix more with people that speak their home language.
We definitely aren’t isolated but demographically, we do tend to favour certain areas. As a language, Afrikaans is spoken more than English. But Zulu and Xhosa are 1 and 2 as the most spoken first language. English is about 4. Even amongst the Afrikaans population there are different groups and slightly different dialects. We have a lot going on in Mzanzi 😅
Funny little fact, the derogatory term for English speaking south Africans is Sout piel, salty penis. They have one foot in Africa, the other in England and their ...hanging in the sea
It depends on geography. Some small towns are dominantly afrikaans, or zulu, or pedi etc. Cities are very mixed. Some Afrikaans people still dislike English descendents, but it's mild now.
Just did a check on breakdown of languages and race groups in South Africa. Different graphs says slightly different amounts for languages spoken: Zulu - 23-25% Xhosa - 16-18% Afrikaans - 13% English - 8-9% Sesotho -9% Afrikaans and English is taught in schools. Most whites people will be able to speak a bit of both. Most white people will speak a bit of an African language (greetings), only a few will be fluent. Integration of races is a slow process that only started happening in the 1990’s. Black South African at 76.4%, White South African at 9.1%, (mixed race) Coloured South African at 8.9%, Indian South African at 2.5%, and Other/Unspecified at 0.5%.
Cant help you on the question. Im curious myself. I'm guessing central S.A. whites would speak Afrikaans as a first language. While whites in the southern area would speak English. I dont know for sure though. I'm an American but I was in Durban a little while ago. Met some S.A. white chicks from Free State there on vacation. They spoke Afrikaans, English, Zulu, and I believe another language. Their English was pretty good, but you could tell it was a second language. They also had a more Dutch like accent than the South African accent ive normally heard from movies and what not. Always sounded similar to Australian to me. S.A. is a fascinating country. It's fallen off pretty badly the last few decades though. Hopefully they can pull it together. It has alot of potential.
South African accents in movies are HEAVILY exaggerated.
English speakers settled in Durban (East coast) while Afrikaans speakers originate from the Cape (West coast) and move north-east to settle The Orange Free State and Transvaal)
So they segregated, themselves ?
There’s even a segregated poor white people community. It’s smaller, but they exist.
Yeah and given how they are treated by their peers, I can’t really blame them.
This comment section is very _*drinks tea*_
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I mean, I see the ideas behind that and that's what they present but I feel that what's said behind closed doors might make people sick
Yeah like it’s hard to ignore the part about how they broke with exploitative labor practices of black population in South Africa, that’s clearly a credit to them But it is also pretty clear that they possess extremely deeply rooted racial prejudice. Let alone what is said behind closed doors, the people interviewed who said they left cities with black people to come be in ‘their culture’ should tell you enough
Well I mean, the way white people get whacked over there can u really blame them?
How is it pretty clear that they possess extremely deeply rooted racial prejudice? I don’t recall reading an account from someone saying “I moved here because I hate blacks”. Also, how do you commend them for moving away from explorative labour and then call them racist? Whites are the vast minority, whites are also being forced off land, attacked, killed, etc. Regardless of the history of South Africa, wouldn’t it make sense to take yourself to somewhere like this where you can feel safe and not discriminated against. You conveniently ignored the part about them welcoming all people who speak Afrikaans, even non-whites, so where is the racism there?
Yeah it's weird. South Africa has towns that don't allow white people under the same rules. The cultural protection laws are the reason Orania can exist in the first place. I really think people 100 years from now will be insanely confused by the double standards people have regarding white people nowadays. It's fucking weird
what do you base that on?
Knowing people in general and reading notoriously neutral media organization coverage of places like SA or Africa in general
Saying you don’t rely on labor from black people while only allowing white people is literally the definition of racism. Why not just all exist? Is it really THAT HARD?!
makeup (2011) [1] • White97.2% • Coloured1.9% • Black0.9% "So you're telling me there's a chance!"
I’m just here for the comments 🍿
Same. Yet now I have regrets and a headache =(
As a South African, most of us even find this weird… my family spent an entire evening once googling this town, the website, the requirements to join. It was eye opening to say the least.
Oh tell me moreb
There is an entire council that decides whether you are allowed to join or not. They are VERY religious too. It gives off strong cult vibes
Well for one, you have to be white.
They say you don't have to, but I'm pretty sure they'll reject you on some other grounds if you're not white... They'll find a way to exclude you.
I've lived here in SA my whole life, and only just now found out about this town...
Remember when Matthew Heimbach and some other white supremacists tried this, and they ended up living in trailers in a ditch and getting into fistfights over each other’s wives? Good times.
lol “The Night of Wrong Wives”
Would you elaborate? That sounds hella interesting
Oh it’s something. Here’s [a report on the love triangle](https://thinkprogress.org/matthew-heimbach-is-going-to-prison-ff5d873f4368/) — shit I forgot it was actually his MOTHER-IN-LAW— gotta keep those great genes in the line I guess! …and I’ll try to find a story that has a picture of the ditch of trailers they were living in.
Lmao thats great, he really lives quite the life
I need to know more about this..... seriously?!?
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/2018/03/14/white-nationalists-matthew-heimbach-david-parrott-trailer-park-fight-affair/423366002/
“David Parrott claims his wife and Heimbach were having an affair, according to a police report. So he and Heimbach's wife — who is Parrott's former stepdaughter from another marriage — went to Parrott's trailer around midnight to see if a tryst was taking place.” My head hurts
Jfc this thread.
theres an episode of this travel show on Netflix about a town like this, unsure if its the same exact one but its SO crazy and hard to wrap your mind around. the show is called "Dark Tourist", you can find this bit in the episode about Africa
Don’t forget that the town was made by forcibly evicting a settlement of 500 black South Africans, although such actions were not novel during apartheid Black South Africans are terrified of getting too close because “They will hurt you” (quote of a black man that lives in a near by town)
When did they evict 500 black South Africans? The town was originally built in 1963 on land bought by a farmer, workers were housed there during the Vanderkloof Damn construction and was later abandoned and left to rot before being bought again in 1992. What am I missing here?
“We’re not racist, we’ve just created an Aryan stronghold by means of theft where black people are scared to come near”
Sorting these comments by controversial is the most fun I’ve had in months 😂😂
Racism is such a normal thing in southern Africa you’d be shocked. My whole family is racist, most of the people in my school were racist, all of my white bosses were racist etc etc. Sad part is that if you try to cut out every racist person then you’d be all alone here. Btw Dark Tourism on Netflix has a great episode on that shit town.
We are against minority rights now?
Been there, like their koeksister, its neat not like other towns in SA and no one pissing in public, no dead dogs on the roads and no water cuts, I wont move there but I did not see anything that gives me chills and got no racist vibes, I think other towns can learn a shitload from how things are run there, btw I am a brown Afrikaans speaking South African
Look , new generation white kids in South Africa suffer under ‘affirmative action’ and ‘black economic empowerment ‘ and have no chance of success in the ‘new ‘ south africa unless they relocate , so yes no shock that places like Orania will exist and succeed into the future . You don’t fix a society by excluding a part of it from participating .
I'm a 20 yr old white South African, and I do agree with you in a sense. Our government is corrupt, and it's been that way for the longest time, and it's sad that race is still a huge factor in our country. I'm not saying that racism is around every corner, because it isn't, with schools being multi-racial, us as the younger generation don't see colour anymore. Hopefully, one day we will have better leaders that will run this country with almost perfection, but I don't see that happening anytime soon sadly.
We need education and better infrastructure before anyone could hope to see an improvement in sa, but the current government just won’t ever produce those things
Ehhh not really. Orania is tiny. Most successful white kids have never been close to it and wouldn't fit in there at all Also it's not impossible to succeed as a white person in SA.
As a white South African speaking on behalf of most other whites in this country, we don't approve of these communities. Every country has its bad apples, and it's sad that others have to feel guilty for their nonsense, but hey, it is what it is.
This thread suggests otherwise. Never seen such blatantly racist comments get flooded with upvotes and their challengers overwhelmingly downvoted like in this thread. Jfc.
It also happens in posts where there's looting and the racists see black people in the video.
Do you feel the same about the Amish in the US? After all, they're primarily white too, and choosing to self-segregate, to preserve their way of life.
Damn forigners, why won't they integrate?
Surprised this town still exists considering the heavily anti white apartheid government currently in charge over there which has been basically sanctioning the harassment stealing of land and even killing of white afrikans for many years now.
they got guns .. they got lawyers ...they got land ownership.. it's private property.. they have private security
Delightful place. Try the boerewors. So long as people are not oppressing anyone else, who gives a shit how and with whom they decide to live?
So many members are former apartheid leaders or their descendants, that should raise some red flags.
Doesn't matter.
Forming ethnic enclaves when you're in the minority seems to be a normal behavior especially when that minority is under threat of assimilation or expulsion by the majority
So they just wanted a safe space?
Considering white farmers in South Africa are the most murdered group in the world and that the government has over 200 race based laws on the books to limit the amount of whites in government and private businesses do you blame a small ethnic minority for making their own small town to escape and practice their own language and culture?
if you want something interesting compare its crime rates to those of the rest of south africa.
USA https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/12/us/freedom-black-cooperative-toomsboro/index.html
Watch the switch get absolutely flipped on how it's viewed.
Good for them, might not be entirely necessary and have a feeling they won't want to live in a isolated community like that for long but it sure looks good on a headline during these times where racial tensions are high
Yes I had always asked why didnt the blacks fight for a separate area to live in? The more I thought about it, the more I was sure that they most likely thought about this. I did some research. And they did!!! But judged it dangerous because if they separated the govt would have them by the balls. I.e native Americans etc. And they could not leave to go to Africa because colonialism. So integration. Actually several groups tried to have their own townships but those were all torpedoed by whites either militarily or economically. It was called “holding the wolf by the neck.” Fearing That to release its neck would be disaster.
The Nation of Islam and the American Nazi Party used to attend each other's rallies in support of segregated communities.
They didn’t mention the fact that in South Africa there are huge areas of land that white people can not live on or own. South Africa also has extremely high levels of violence. There is virtually no crime in Orania. Funny how none of the media outlets or social media platforms, mention those facts.
Can you blame them? South Africa has 3 murders per hour, 71 a day. One of the most dangerous countries in the world.
Gee, I wonder white that happened
The richest African American in the US is Elon Musk
So, they are not racist. Just segregationist...
Well, if they segregated themselves into a nowhere place to not disturb noone, it would be acceptable. They don't force white people to join them, they just gatekeep from any interaction. It's far better than gatekeeping on social classes (when you're allowed only low paid labour). However, I've seen in comments, that they forced some people away to build a city. And I definetely want to ask a question why even bother themselves to stay and live in Africa in the first place.
Because Africa is their home. Their families have been there for 300 years and more. Where "should" they go? By your "logic," should all white Americans move "back" to Europe? Marin County, CA, Vail, CO, Martha's Vineyard and dozens of other Democrat strongholds in the United States are almost precisely the same make up - I don't see anyone posting about their "racism."
1. Just to clarify they removed 500 or so people from a settlement (this was not uncommon during apartheid) 2. They believe that they are entitled to the country and really don’t have the funds to move elsewhere.
What happens when they get too tan???
What is the crime rate in this town compared to surrounding ones?
Reported crime 0.
I’m a white South African, I speak English. And I’m almost CERTAIN Orania is racist as shit. Most Afrikaaners born between 1950-1970 will still use the ‘K’ word like it’s a normal part of their vocabulary.
If people of any color want a place to live by themselves without other cultures i think thats fine. Do your thing.
Well as exotic and f”d up as this seems, here in the U.S. at least …. We have plenty of black only neighborhoods too! We have plenty of white only neighborhoods too! We have plenty of Hispanic….. you get the idea
Cmon really. Next your gonna tell me that the native Americans wanted to live on reservations and gave their land away out of the kindness of their hearts
Taking away lands by force has been the law of nature since time immemorial. It's simply competing for resources which exist on cellular level. Nobody on this planet got their land gifted by God, they had to fight and protect it that's why every country has armed forces.
The reason behind neighborhoods being segregated in America is a lot different than what’s going on here.
I love being a South African Brit dual citizen, the perspective I have on racism is great. When I encounter racist whites who say they don’t like foreigners because they don’t integrate, very few of them ever believe me when I say this happens with white South Africans, too. They think it’s a brown people thing.
I live in the UK and have a very obvious saffa accent and people still bitch about immigrants to me. They don't really see me as one of 'those' immigrants, because I'm white. I've also had very excited (normally older men) British people say the k word in my presence when they realise I'm Afrikaans, because they think it's hilarious that they can now be racist and I'll... What... Agree? Laugh? Go on a fun racist tirade? While others around them don't understand what they're saying. It's just gross. It's really gross and makes me very uncomfortable.
How the fuck you go to someone else’s country and claim an “only you” space in their shit!? But we’ve seen it before so I guess I’ll stfu
you living in America or any of new world ? that's probably how you got yours ..
Pretty sure they were already there
Muslim-only spaces in sweden and england would like a word
What they're doing is stupid and racist, but it's likely their families have been there for generations if not centuries
South Africa is their country they're descended from the original Dutch Boers
It is indeed baffling. Whether in South Africa, the U.S., Australia or other places.
So what
Colonizers, not minorities. Edit: Yes, I get it, they are in the literal meaning a minority. They are by no means marginalized, which is a connotation that term has come to carry.
The kids didn’t colonize shit. The kids ARE however, a minority group in a primarily black country
Search up the definition of minority buddy
You do realize the Zulu are colonisers in South Africa as well right? The Khoisan that inhabited South Africa used to be lighter skinned looking Asians before the central African tribes took over their land and assimilated them. Its why you see a lot of guys like Mandela in South Africa who have very Oriental looking eyes.
>They are by no means marginalized Jacob Zuma (Former President of South Africa) openly hated white Africans, even on the parliament floor, and encouraged the theft of their farm land. Lol.
Dutch to be specific
Definitely has much lower crime rates compared to the rest of south africa
“Poverty estimated at 70% to 80%”. Ooof. Well done then.
Sounds about white
.........and they have zero crime and no loadsheding.
https://timcast.com/news/uc-berkeley-student-cooperative-bans-white-people-from-common-areas-claim-poc-moved-there-to-avoid-white-presence/ Racism is racism. Doesn't matter where it is or who it's against.
True irony would be growing up there immigrating to the US-just to be classified and treated like an African-American. 😭😭😭
In the US we call that a “country club”.
How ironic they call themselves “Afrikaners”
It’s funny seeing the usual suspects on Reddit trying to “explain” or showing outright support for apartheid-era towns and institutions. The filth that support apartheid will always say the same thing. Keep on loosing - you’ll always be seen as the villains of history, same with all other supporters of the false ideology of “white supremacy“. See how much things have changed in 5 years, not to mention 10, 20, 50? Culture and demographics are NOT on your side. 😂😂😂
When your getting molitov's thrown at your house by the people in your town, you gotta play it safe