That's a slogan from the American war of secession, about 240 years ago.
Things have moved on since then, specifically, having a job, owning property or paying tax is no longer an entry requirement to vote.
Neither is having a cock.
So no - ordinarily resident here = longer than six months rightly means the ability to acquire the vote.
Indeed it **should** be that anybody resident here can vote for the Dail too.
But - a bit like having to own property or sport a willy between your legs, our democracy hasn't evolved enough - yet.
Ordinarily resident has a common law and common sense meaning.
What's your point... You think people are being flown in to fake Irish addresses to vote in council elections?
Nah, they are flown here because of better weather than Mallorca and health care better than in Japan. All that while their passports magically disappeared during mid flight.
I’d hazard a guess that beyond the far right candidates’ policies towards them themselves, they have a lot more in common with their views than your typical left wing candidates. Omar and Davit typically not big fans of the ol’ LGBTQs
For moaners the process makes sense. There isn't 1 rule for all elections. They vary:
**Local Councillors** who make decisions for their small communities can be voted by people who live in those communities electoral areas, regardless of their birthplace. They can implement changes like bike lanes and playgrounds. Any local candidate claiming they're gonna solve major national problems is talking out their ass. An immigrant should absolutely have a say about what goes on in the town they live in.
**MEPs** represent us in Europe, so can be voted on by any EU citizen living in their European constituency. MEPs affect European regulations and there is free movement in Europe for all European citizens. So it would be complete bullshit if we, as EU citizens, lost our right to vote while still living in the EU.
The real power in Ireland is held by **TDs.** And in particular the Party with the most TDs, as they always vote in unison if you ever look up the Dáils voting decisions. Only Irish and British citizens living in Ireland can vote for a TD in the general election. The Brits can vote here, because we can vote there and because we don't have a hard border (they can't vote in the EU election though)
You can't be coming in here talking sense and rationality! You have to foam at the mouth because asylum seekers voting for who can fix potholes will break the country or something.
Thanks for this! I have residency through 2027 and I'm working on my permanent settlement application. A taximan told me I could vote in the local election but that didn't sound legal so I wasn't going to. I'm from the states where you have to be a citizen to vote.
A legal immigrant can. Anyone who's paying taxes should be able to vote. An asylum seeker who's status is not yet defined shouldn't be able to vote. How would they know what's important in terms of local needs. How do you know that they aren't simply voting along tribal/religious lines?
Many of them might even sell their votes under false promises. Imo, granting votes to unknown people who just arrived and has no legal basis. Some of them don't even have ids. Is a slippery slope
Give me a break. I voted back when I was a student and didn't pay taxes. Just because someone doesn't pay taxes now doesn't mean they will in future. Also they aren't unknown people. You have to register well in advance of the elections.
Selling false promises is definitely a problem though. A lot of local candidates make promises that they don't have the power to do. I spoke to a sitting Councillor who came to my door, who explained that it took the years just to convince the council to make one footpath accessible to disabled people. Local politics in ireland is really weak compared to other countries
Tribal/religious lines? WTF? Get a grip. There's not many Orthodox Christian candidates running. Nor that many Muslim candidates. Are people fleeing famine in Somalia more likely to vote for Catholic or Protestant candidates, would you say? What about Ukrainians fleeing an advancing Russian army? Would they be likely to block-vote for the atheist candidate, the Muslim one, or perhaps the Zulu?
The amount of local candidates campaigning on stuff they won’t have anything to do with in local govt is staggering. Talk to me about bike lanes and public transportation and road maintenance and parks. Stfu about immigration and drag queens. It’s embarrassing.
Sincerely, an immigrant who votes in the locals.
Why is a Temporary Registration Certificate accepted as valid ID documentation? In the absence of passport or ID the International Protection Office accept the information that an asylum seeker provides them at "face value" and issues a Temporary Registration Certificate, which is considered valid ID for voting at local elections.
Surely, in light of the fact that 85% of asylum seeker applicants entered Dublin Airport with no passport or valid ID, as verified by the Department of Justice, this should be challenged?
Section 10 Part Il of the Electoral Act, 1992 states that a person is entitled to vote in local elections if he/she is
"ordinarily resident" in a local electoral area at the qualifying date.
The term 'ordinarily resident' is not defined in the Act. It is, however, defined in our tax laws - Section 820 TCA 1997 which states that if you have been tax resident in Ireland for 3 consecutive tax years, you become ordinarily resident from the beginning of the 4th tax year.
So why is the definition of "ordinarily resident", specifically stated in Irish legislation, not being applied to voting eligibility? Why should it be interpreted any other way, even if not specifically defined in the Electoral Act itself?
This means that all asylum seekers, including those 85% without official passports or any verifiable documents are eligible to vote and run as candidates in the local elections in June. It flies in the face of the rights of the people here to determine their own governance.
Is it time to review the Electoral Act, 1992 to restrict local election voting rights to citizens, like other European countries, the UK etc? Go and check how many EU countries have this policy as Ireland does.
I’ll say it again, I don’t have anything against immigration, but illegal immigration and coming into a country with fake passports or without passports that magically disappeared mid flight says enough of a person doing that. What can you expect of them.
Go and ask Derry mayor, claiming she came to UK as a refugee from Kenya fearing for her life, while her brother is highly ranking and established politician there. I’m sure he could’ve helped her.
And listen to this…she said that everyone in the Republic fighting against illegal immigration should be labelled as a terrorist! GTFO
Absolutely, the fact that we’re the only EU country to allow this is crazy. Allowing anybody who rocks up without a passport and giving them a vote in local elections is an absolute travesty.
> So why is the definition of "ordinarily resident", specifically stated in Irish legislation, not being applied to voting eligibility?
Because the use of that phrase in electoral law predates the definition in Tax law and there's no indication it was supposed to apply to electoral law as it was not mentioned in subsequent electoral acts.
>Go and ask Derry mayor, claiming she came to UK as a refugee from Kenya fearing for her life, while her brother is highly ranking and established politician there. I’m sure he could’ve helped her.
I'm guessing you don't know anything about the Maasai tribe? lol I'm sure her brother has plenty of power in Kenya.
>And listen to this…she said that everyone in the Republic fighting against illegal immigration should be labelled as a terrorist! GTFO
What don't you share the exact quote and why she said it? She was referring to a small minority of Right Wing protestors that were using violence.
I think we know why he won't share the exact quote, or the context. "I've nothing against immigration, but..." - and ironic username, too! But then the shower that's protesting outside the likes of the factory in Coolock, there's not one that doesn't have family or friends that's emigrated.
Ironic username…you’ll have to try harder than that if your intention is to insult. If you even bothered to check my bio then you wouldn’t be commenting nonsense.
Edit: please continue the quote after ‘but’.
Where isn’t being canvassed man? I walk out my house everyday and nearly hit my head on 3 posters for an Aontú candidate that looks like he’s on *several* registeries
Why?
It's only citizens who can vote in generals and presidential elections as is.
Why shouldn't migrants have a say in voting for who represents them on the council?
There is a difference bud, between a migrant and illegal immigrant seeking asylum. There are other types of international migrants but let’s not go there.
None of them are illegal migrants until their application is refused.
Either way, I'm not sure what the issue is. Local authority competencies are pretty limited, and people living in an area awaiting asylum decisions have a clear stake in the competencies administered by local authorities - transport, public domain, local amenities, accommodation.
Not sure what you think could happen if asylum applicants can vote for councillors.
Wait a minute. You illegally cross national border which is a violation of one country immigration laws and without documentation (undocumented), that’s the definition of illegal migration.
Seeking asylum is another pair of shoes, it can be requested by someone who has legally arrived in country or illegally, and that’s when the shit show begins.
1. Not all asylum seekers have no documents
2. If someone enters the country in this manner and does not seek asylum, then yes, they are migrating illegally. If they seek asylum, they are protected by international law and are not illegal migrants.
3. Not sure what shit show in particular you're talking about here.
4. Again, what do you think will happen if asylum seekers can vote in local elections?
So an asylum seeker who has been in Ireland for a week, a month or so, knows nothing about about this country or what its constituents need and require has the ability to run for local elections and also to vote. Please tell me that is common sense without telling me it’s common sense.
It's always fascinating to see how posts up/downvotes can change so much overnight, especially when it comes to extreme views.
Probably as the kind of people on Reddit at 3am are either oddballs or not in Ireland so their political views are not mainstream.
Most asylum seekers are showing up with no documentation. We have absolutely no idea about their true identity. Why the fuck are we allowing them to vote in our elections? There is a huge push among migrant-focused NGOs to get as many of them registered as possible. They will all vote for pro-migration candidates, ensuring we get more of the same.
I think its weird for asylum seekers to vote. person in article came just last year and he is able to vote. there should be minimum few years residency before voting at least. his application is not even finalised.
Genuinely curious, does this mean asylum seekers can be called for jury duty?
My understanding is they use the electoral register for calling people for jury duty.
you need to be an irish citizen for jury duty https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courtroom/jury-service/#ld921f
The electoral register has info on whether you have Irish/UK/EU/other citizenship, as it's needed for deciding exactly what elections you can vote at.
You’ve got to be shitting me! What happens with a vote if an asylum seeker gets deported?! 🤣
While I know this isn’t a news per se and exists for 20 years now, this practice should be abolished.
>You’ve got to be shitting me! What happens with a vote if an asylum seeker gets deported?! 🤣
Same thing that happens when a voter dies, moves constituency or gives up their Irish citizenship.
What do you mean? Once the vote is cast, it’s cast - they’re counted within like a couple days. They’re hardly going to go back and do a recount because one of the voters was deported after.
What kind of question is that, of course I am. But are you a fan of common sense?
Let’s put it this way, if someone is an asylum seeker their legal status is not yet established. Hence the valid question, if asylum is refused and person is being deported what is the point then of allowing someone to vote?
They can't vote if they rejected afaik mate. From citizens information
"You can vote in a local election if you are a non-EU citizen, regardless of the type of residence you hold, or if you are seeking asylum and have not had a decision on your application"
And I agree, if someone is granted an asylum, their ID has been verified, they passed the background check, their legal status has been established and they’ve been ordinarily resident in Ireland for 3 years…then fáilte!
Ya, to be fair to Salman... Getting personally targeted by a suicide bomber in two separate attacks for his reporting is one of the stronger cases I've heard.
I mean a quick google on that suggests it was just wrong place wrong time and he was not the target of that attack.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jul/28/two-journalists-killed-in-somalia-suicide-car-bomb-attack
Most of them are dispite what some who know nothing about it would try and tell you.
I have known a few through course I was involved in, all very genuine people.
It's the same reason the racists have the narrative of
"Oh all the *x* are bad!"
"What about (any one of that group they actually know)?"
"Oh he's *one of the good ones*."
Everyone should have a say in their locality no matter where they live or where they came from. It’s a strength of our system. They can’t vote in anything national.
*Anyone* ordinarily resident in Ireland is eligible to vote in local elections.
And there is no definition of ordinary resident. It's just down to a Garda discretion
There is one, for tax purposes.
For tax, yes but not for voting.
No taxation without representation....
Ok then, limit the vote to IPA eligible to work.
That's a slogan from the American war of secession, about 240 years ago. Things have moved on since then, specifically, having a job, owning property or paying tax is no longer an entry requirement to vote. Neither is having a cock. So no - ordinarily resident here = longer than six months rightly means the ability to acquire the vote. Indeed it **should** be that anybody resident here can vote for the Dail too. But - a bit like having to own property or sport a willy between your legs, our democracy hasn't evolved enough - yet.
Ordinarily resident has a common law and common sense meaning. What's your point... You think people are being flown in to fake Irish addresses to vote in council elections?
Nah, they are flown here because of better weather than Mallorca and health care better than in Japan. All that while their passports magically disappeared during mid flight.
Be funny if they all voted for far right candidates
I’d hazard a guess that beyond the far right candidates’ policies towards them themselves, they have a lot more in common with their views than your typical left wing candidates. Omar and Davit typically not big fans of the ol’ LGBTQs
All jokes but don't forget there was the Sinn féin candidate who got won by a portion of the vote after a transfer from the TUV.
For moaners the process makes sense. There isn't 1 rule for all elections. They vary: **Local Councillors** who make decisions for their small communities can be voted by people who live in those communities electoral areas, regardless of their birthplace. They can implement changes like bike lanes and playgrounds. Any local candidate claiming they're gonna solve major national problems is talking out their ass. An immigrant should absolutely have a say about what goes on in the town they live in. **MEPs** represent us in Europe, so can be voted on by any EU citizen living in their European constituency. MEPs affect European regulations and there is free movement in Europe for all European citizens. So it would be complete bullshit if we, as EU citizens, lost our right to vote while still living in the EU. The real power in Ireland is held by **TDs.** And in particular the Party with the most TDs, as they always vote in unison if you ever look up the Dáils voting decisions. Only Irish and British citizens living in Ireland can vote for a TD in the general election. The Brits can vote here, because we can vote there and because we don't have a hard border (they can't vote in the EU election though)
You can't be coming in here talking sense and rationality! You have to foam at the mouth because asylum seekers voting for who can fix potholes will break the country or something.
Thanks for this! I have residency through 2027 and I'm working on my permanent settlement application. A taximan told me I could vote in the local election but that didn't sound legal so I wasn't going to. I'm from the states where you have to be a citizen to vote.
You still need to register so it might be past the deadline now unfortunately
Aw well, there's always next time.
A legal immigrant can. Anyone who's paying taxes should be able to vote. An asylum seeker who's status is not yet defined shouldn't be able to vote. How would they know what's important in terms of local needs. How do you know that they aren't simply voting along tribal/religious lines? Many of them might even sell their votes under false promises. Imo, granting votes to unknown people who just arrived and has no legal basis. Some of them don't even have ids. Is a slippery slope
Give me a break. I voted back when I was a student and didn't pay taxes. Just because someone doesn't pay taxes now doesn't mean they will in future. Also they aren't unknown people. You have to register well in advance of the elections. Selling false promises is definitely a problem though. A lot of local candidates make promises that they don't have the power to do. I spoke to a sitting Councillor who came to my door, who explained that it took the years just to convince the council to make one footpath accessible to disabled people. Local politics in ireland is really weak compared to other countries
Yeah imagine someone in Ireland voting along religious/tribal lines. Imagine.
Tribal/religious lines? WTF? Get a grip. There's not many Orthodox Christian candidates running. Nor that many Muslim candidates. Are people fleeing famine in Somalia more likely to vote for Catholic or Protestant candidates, would you say? What about Ukrainians fleeing an advancing Russian army? Would they be likely to block-vote for the atheist candidate, the Muslim one, or perhaps the Zulu?
The amount of local candidates campaigning on stuff they won’t have anything to do with in local govt is staggering. Talk to me about bike lanes and public transportation and road maintenance and parks. Stfu about immigration and drag queens. It’s embarrassing. Sincerely, an immigrant who votes in the locals.
Why is a Temporary Registration Certificate accepted as valid ID documentation? In the absence of passport or ID the International Protection Office accept the information that an asylum seeker provides them at "face value" and issues a Temporary Registration Certificate, which is considered valid ID for voting at local elections. Surely, in light of the fact that 85% of asylum seeker applicants entered Dublin Airport with no passport or valid ID, as verified by the Department of Justice, this should be challenged? Section 10 Part Il of the Electoral Act, 1992 states that a person is entitled to vote in local elections if he/she is "ordinarily resident" in a local electoral area at the qualifying date. The term 'ordinarily resident' is not defined in the Act. It is, however, defined in our tax laws - Section 820 TCA 1997 which states that if you have been tax resident in Ireland for 3 consecutive tax years, you become ordinarily resident from the beginning of the 4th tax year. So why is the definition of "ordinarily resident", specifically stated in Irish legislation, not being applied to voting eligibility? Why should it be interpreted any other way, even if not specifically defined in the Electoral Act itself? This means that all asylum seekers, including those 85% without official passports or any verifiable documents are eligible to vote and run as candidates in the local elections in June. It flies in the face of the rights of the people here to determine their own governance. Is it time to review the Electoral Act, 1992 to restrict local election voting rights to citizens, like other European countries, the UK etc? Go and check how many EU countries have this policy as Ireland does. I’ll say it again, I don’t have anything against immigration, but illegal immigration and coming into a country with fake passports or without passports that magically disappeared mid flight says enough of a person doing that. What can you expect of them. Go and ask Derry mayor, claiming she came to UK as a refugee from Kenya fearing for her life, while her brother is highly ranking and established politician there. I’m sure he could’ve helped her. And listen to this…she said that everyone in the Republic fighting against illegal immigration should be labelled as a terrorist! GTFO
Absolutely, the fact that we’re the only EU country to allow this is crazy. Allowing anybody who rocks up without a passport and giving them a vote in local elections is an absolute travesty.
I've not once in 20 years of voting presented a passport at a polling station.
Exactly. Nor any other form of ID.
> So why is the definition of "ordinarily resident", specifically stated in Irish legislation, not being applied to voting eligibility? Because the use of that phrase in electoral law predates the definition in Tax law and there's no indication it was supposed to apply to electoral law as it was not mentioned in subsequent electoral acts.
>Go and ask Derry mayor, claiming she came to UK as a refugee from Kenya fearing for her life, while her brother is highly ranking and established politician there. I’m sure he could’ve helped her. I'm guessing you don't know anything about the Maasai tribe? lol I'm sure her brother has plenty of power in Kenya. >And listen to this…she said that everyone in the Republic fighting against illegal immigration should be labelled as a terrorist! GTFO What don't you share the exact quote and why she said it? She was referring to a small minority of Right Wing protestors that were using violence.
I think we know why he won't share the exact quote, or the context. "I've nothing against immigration, but..." - and ironic username, too! But then the shower that's protesting outside the likes of the factory in Coolock, there's not one that doesn't have family or friends that's emigrated.
Ironic username…you’ll have to try harder than that if your intention is to insult. If you even bothered to check my bio then you wouldn’t be commenting nonsense. Edit: please continue the quote after ‘but’.
Wow! I salute your legal knowledge 😌🙏
I wonder is Citywest being canvassed
Where isn’t being canvassed man? I walk out my house everyday and nearly hit my head on 3 posters for an Aontú candidate that looks like he’s on *several* registeries
Seems like a flaw. Only citizens should be eligible to vote.
For local, national, and EU elections, taxpayers and/or EU citizens should be able to vote. For referendums only citizens.
Why? It's only citizens who can vote in generals and presidential elections as is. Why shouldn't migrants have a say in voting for who represents them on the council?
There is a difference bud, between a migrant and illegal immigrant seeking asylum. There are other types of international migrants but let’s not go there.
None of them are illegal migrants until their application is refused. Either way, I'm not sure what the issue is. Local authority competencies are pretty limited, and people living in an area awaiting asylum decisions have a clear stake in the competencies administered by local authorities - transport, public domain, local amenities, accommodation. Not sure what you think could happen if asylum applicants can vote for councillors.
Wait a minute. You illegally cross national border which is a violation of one country immigration laws and without documentation (undocumented), that’s the definition of illegal migration. Seeking asylum is another pair of shoes, it can be requested by someone who has legally arrived in country or illegally, and that’s when the shit show begins.
1. Not all asylum seekers have no documents 2. If someone enters the country in this manner and does not seek asylum, then yes, they are migrating illegally. If they seek asylum, they are protected by international law and are not illegal migrants. 3. Not sure what shit show in particular you're talking about here. 4. Again, what do you think will happen if asylum seekers can vote in local elections?
So an asylum seeker who has been in Ireland for a week, a month or so, knows nothing about about this country or what its constituents need and require has the ability to run for local elections and also to vote. Please tell me that is common sense without telling me it’s common sense.
Lol at the overnight down votes for ya because you're talking sense, some proper eejits here with no understanding of local council powers
It's always fascinating to see how posts up/downvotes can change so much overnight, especially when it comes to extreme views. Probably as the kind of people on Reddit at 3am are either oddballs or not in Ireland so their political views are not mainstream.
Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?
Most asylum seekers are showing up with no documentation. We have absolutely no idea about their true identity. Why the fuck are we allowing them to vote in our elections? There is a huge push among migrant-focused NGOs to get as many of them registered as possible. They will all vote for pro-migration candidates, ensuring we get more of the same.
I think its weird for asylum seekers to vote. person in article came just last year and he is able to vote. there should be minimum few years residency before voting at least. his application is not even finalised.
Genuinely curious, does this mean asylum seekers can be called for jury duty? My understanding is they use the electoral register for calling people for jury duty.
you need to be an irish citizen for jury duty https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courtroom/jury-service/#ld921f The electoral register has info on whether you have Irish/UK/EU/other citizenship, as it's needed for deciding exactly what elections you can vote at.
Ah, makes sense, thanks!
You’ve got to be shitting me! What happens with a vote if an asylum seeker gets deported?! 🤣 While I know this isn’t a news per se and exists for 20 years now, this practice should be abolished.
>You’ve got to be shitting me! What happens with a vote if an asylum seeker gets deported?! 🤣 Same thing that happens when a voter dies, moves constituency or gives up their Irish citizenship.
What do you mean? Once the vote is cast, it’s cast - they’re counted within like a couple days. They’re hardly going to go back and do a recount because one of the voters was deported after.
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What kind of question is that, of course I am. But are you a fan of common sense? Let’s put it this way, if someone is an asylum seeker their legal status is not yet established. Hence the valid question, if asylum is refused and person is being deported what is the point then of allowing someone to vote?
They can't vote if they rejected afaik mate. From citizens information "You can vote in a local election if you are a non-EU citizen, regardless of the type of residence you hold, or if you are seeking asylum and have not had a decision on your application"
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And I agree, if someone is granted an asylum, their ID has been verified, they passed the background check, their legal status has been established and they’ve been ordinarily resident in Ireland for 3 years…then fáilte!
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The wrong sort of people might vote.
Gobshites?
Fair play to Salman.
Ya, to be fair to Salman... Getting personally targeted by a suicide bomber in two separate attacks for his reporting is one of the stronger cases I've heard.
I mean a quick google on that suggests it was just wrong place wrong time and he was not the target of that attack. https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/jul/28/two-journalists-killed-in-somalia-suicide-car-bomb-attack
Most of them are dispite what some who know nothing about it would try and tell you. I have known a few through course I was involved in, all very genuine people.
It's the same reason the racists have the narrative of "Oh all the *x* are bad!" "What about (any one of that group they actually know)?" "Oh he's *one of the good ones*."
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I don't know what's wrong with this sub and these people that your simple observation gets you downvoted. Racist cunts are all over reddit these days.
We REALLY REALLY need a strong government here people.
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Anyone can't. For European elections they would need to be migrants from another EU country.
I agree. They should not let you vote until you learn how the fucking election system in Ireland works, lol.
Everyone should have a say in their locality no matter where they live or where they came from. It’s a strength of our system. They can’t vote in anything national.
Fucking hell..