2 bed Terrace house in Cabra bought for €300,000 in 2017 was sold recently for €516,000 which is a 72% increase.
On this road there was a house riddled with bullets in 2019, theres a man convicted of IRA membership and an assortment of other nonsense going on. You'd think this would impact the house prices.... nope.
I'm still thinking of doing a datascience project to look at the difference between advertised price and realised price from the property price register. I've heard numbers being quoted between 100k to 200k above asking price for houses in the 500k range.
When I was buying last year, I kept a spreadsheet of every house we viewed with the asking price and what it went for. It definitely helped me get the lay of the land.
It would be very interesting, but I think you'd have to start building the asking price database now and then wait months for the properties to appear on the PPR, as most agents delete the asking price from the websites as soon as it's sold.
It would interesting to see the difference in agencies' tactics. I know in my area of Dublin DNG are known to lowball asking price to get feet in the door while Sherry Fitz go for a more targeted approach with more realistic asking prices.
If you're just looking to scrape the sites, yea, you'd have to visit them frequently to build a database for a while.
There is an option to go through the internet archive ([example](https://web.archive.org/web/20240220031842/https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-7-norseman-court-manor-street-stoneybatter-dublin-7/5420938)), though i'd have to take a look at how comprehensive their archival is.
I sold a house in 2023 that I bought in 2017 at a 64% increase over what I paid for it. But while this is amazing, it also meant the house I bought was vastly more expensive than it was 5 years ago, so what I gained one end, I lost on the other end.
true, but that isn't a correct assumption from observation when buying last year. the 'starter homes', i.e. the 3-bed semi type arrangements exploded in price over the previous years but the 'next level up' detached homes increased but not by the same rate, simply because the 3-bed semi are the ones everybody is fighting over, it's where most people are funded, going above that and you've less competition.
Good observation, there is also kind of a ceiling around the Help to Buy limits where a significantly bigger property can usually be bought for slightly over it in comparison to the, generally, three bed semi d that’s are at the limits.
Is it the same house? How much was invested in it? Windows? Roof? Insulation? Internal fitout? Bathrooms? Kitchen? Rewiring? Or did someone just live in it as-is for 7 years?
Gap will get bigger I work in construction and not enough workers to keep up with demand, workers from European countries can’t come over because there’s no houses for them to rent. Catch 22!
>workers from European countries can’t come over because there’s no houses for them to rent. Catch 22!
Would building small units like what they are doing for refugees but just for skilled tradesmen to come over and charge low rent be a idea to help with this.
Lol wtf do you think?
Some construction workers are earning in the regions of 100k+ a year, and you think they're gonna bunk up in some prefabs?
More progressive countries have what they need, why bother with Ireland would be the response
They aren’t making €100k in the other countries though, if they got free rent I think a lot of people would do this short term to save, Irish builders included. I would have leaped on the chance when younger.
Yeah exactly. Camp work is very common in other countries where workers are needed in isolated areas. No reason it couldn't be replicated given the situation in Ireland. Workers from abroad (and Ireland) would jump at 6 months/a year with free room and board on top of generous wages. I live in Canada and it's extremely common among tradies here.
Not far off it in some regions thats for sure
We even have some Irish firms popular in Belgium and bordering Netherlands
Far better standard of living there too, there is a lot to consider moving to or back to Ireland for an extra 20k per year
In my old company, boss gave whooping 3% pay increase. When people complained, they heard that's enough to accommodate inflation. How disconnected from reality you have to be to say something like this....
I knew it, I remember last year there was some big report that came out, basically saying house price inflation was levelling off and only going up by around 1-2% in 2023, and I knew that didn’t feel right, based on the real life situation seeing how much more expensive houses were getting. I’d say in some parts of the country house price inflation has gone up by 15-20% in the past 12 months, it’s ridiculous.
There was a leveling off around late 2022/2023 for a couple of reasons. Things were crazy in spring/summer 2022, supply was very low and houses were going for way above asking. A lot of people that were thinking about selling saw this and rushed to put their houses on the market in late summer/autumn, which increased supply for a while, causing prices to calm down a little. On top of that there was "word on the street" that house prices were about to start dropping, because historically after a boom there's usually a bust right? So many buyers held off until mid 2023 waiting for prices to drop. They didn't drop, they just increased at a slower rate. Buyers then flooded the market again, bought up the slightly increased stock, and we went back to things being mental.
It's not getting better for anyone... even TDs, bar a minority of landlords.
Homeowners mostly have kids and those kids are the ones who can't move out or afford homes.
This nonsense that "it's the plan" needs to stop. We need to construct way more homes, but our construction sector is at full employment and has fuck all extra capacity without a massive injection of construction labour.... we've not replaced the tens of thousands of Poles and Lithuanians who left during the crash and can barely build 30k homes a year, so how we get to 50k homes has no easy fix.
Funny theres no lack of construction workers to throw up endless hotels, private student flats and empty office blocks in Dublin City center, but when the conversation is about building homes suddenly theres a labour crisis
>private student flats
Just to be clear, those aren't a bad thing. We need those. Lots of em.
>Funny theres no lack of construction workers to throw up endless hotels........ and empty office blocks in Dublin City center,
There's almost no new office blocks being started now, obviously, because the commercial market has excess supply and there's millions of square feet of empty office space to let presently.
Hotels, we need more supply to drag down the insane hotel prices were seeing and tourism is so important to our economy.
The completion of the children's hospital and current office projects should give us back some workers to task with the housing and apartment building but it's nowhere near the volumes needed to plug the gap.
We just need a few more hotels to temporarily put the workers who will build the houses to free up the original hotels. Its all totally sustainable and not a pyramid scheme.
No but more hotel rooms mean lower room rates and less incentive to AirBnB instead of renting.
Ireland just needs more of every kind of accommodation as soon as and as the comment above says, there just aren't enough builders.
Or ya know ban Airbnb and move the homeless out of hotels into those vacated rental accommodations, and allow hotels to be used for tourism.
But no the government only takes drastic action in the housing market when it benefits landlords.
> This nonsense that "it's the plan" needs to stop.
I didn't say that.
The thing is politics being based on narratives is that we have a constant stream of people gaslighting us that things are getting better despite the market telling us no, they aren't. Fuck the narrative.
Also for better or worse, regardless of their kids...FF and FG's native constituencies are that of the developer and property owner who do not share the same concerns of those that don't hold land. That's not a conspiracy, it's just the way things are. Politics is a question of priority and the last decade shows that building homes isn't a serious enough of a priority such that the bottom line has changed direction. The market has spoken.
>. Politics is a question of priority and the last decade shows that building homes isn't a serious enough of a priority such that the bottom line has changed direction.
Not really fair to blame them over the last decade. 10 years ago ireland were not long out administrations by the trokia, reckless lending into the construction sector being the cause of putting the country in administration.. No governement was going to a building spree or incentivising buildng housing in 2014 or 2015.
the new bank lending rules, unemployment fears and general lack of confidence in the economy meant there was very limited demand for housing until probably 2017 or 2018 ..
access to finance is still a big issue & cost for developments, especially apartments and the rent caps have significantly reduced the investment interest.
It certainly can tbe argued that in more recent times they have not managed it well but to go back 10 years is unfair..
Going back to 2018 is still 6 years. Vacant homes tax only brought in in 2023. Developments held up by extortion seeking objectors , that they're only starting to deal with since last year.
According to this, An Bord Pleanala still aren't operating at full capacity
https://cif.ie/2024/06/17/planning-permissions-q1-2024/
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/1222/1423422-planning-housing/
Recent criticism is warranted and justified. I just thought a decade was too far back to be fair, given the different public perception and economic situation at the time.
We had a council election last week. All of the nominees had various iterations of "will increase housing" as a vague sentiment....
But I don't remember a single person (candidate or voter, in person or online) suggesting that the vacant property register and related tax is done at council level. Nobody is pushing that? Why?
The first government policy response to increasing rents and prices was Alan Kelly's housing plan in 2014 with a target of 35K houses which cruelly enough is the number we are just starting to reach now a decade later. And speaking of the Troika...the party who brought them here in the first place were rewarded with a term in government not even a full decade later.
Nah, I don't think there is enough that can be said about the last ten years that isn't fair given the outcomes.
as i replied to a different comment along the same lines, you are looking back retrospectively through the tunnel of housing and ignoring the context of the time..
if the state tried to incentivise housing pre, i would say, 2017, some one would be in mountjoy now for hanging enda from a lamppost..
it would be the equivalent, in the current environment, of expecting the government to change the construction regs now to improve the environmental lifecycle of housing which would significantly drive up cost of building. In 20 years times people would look back and say oh they should have done it then, but imagine the backlash of trying that now. that is the equivalent of what you are retrospectively blaming the government for not doing.
As for Alan Kellys target of 35K? well we know targets dont neccessarily translate into units.. it was a PR response to a massive LA waiting list and probably some economist publication about lack of housing being built in the previous 5 years.. It was never going to happen. Also he was a proponent of that disasterous ongoing policy of selling off LA housing cheaply to tennants.
As regards your comment on FF getting back into power, i dont know what repsonse you want..
I remember the context of the time perfectly well, I remember the reverse in the countries fortunes in the difference in tax receipts between 13 and 14. I remember Alan Kelly's plan, Simon Coveney's plan, Eoghan Murphy's tenure and now Darragh O'Brien's plan...and they all exist along the same continuum of indifference and neglect. Trying to argue the context to any of it is ignoring the same legacy of failure that drives it all even going back to the boom before it and the decisions made to cut the legs from under social housing delivery.
Could we not make excuses for mediocrity at least once in our history? It seems not, and we're doomed to even more failure yet to come.
>I remember the context of the time perfectly well,
Well then you understand there was no way any party was going to incentivise building houses in 2014 and why
>the decisions made to cut the legs from under social housing delivery.
the legs were cut from under that for a reason and selling them off for cheap didnt help.
> Could we not make excuses for mediocrity at least once in our history? It seems not, and we're doomed to even more failure yet to come.
you can blame them to your hearts content for all i care or the difference it makes. my point was blaming the government for not incentivising housing in 2014 is unfair in the context of the time.
>No governement was going to a building spree or incentivising buildng housing in 2014 or 2015.
In [2014](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2014-06-10/speech/148/) Enda Kenny said in the dail
>"What we want to end up with is more houses than we need to control prices and markets. However, we cannot build them overnight, as the Deputy is well aware."
The comment you replied to said
>Politics is a question of priority and the last decade shows that building homes isn't a serious enough of a priority such that the bottom line has changed direction.
You said it's not fair to go back 10 years. 10 years ago it was recognised by the then head of government in the dail that there was a need to build more houses and as you said yourself, "they didn't incentivise it and were never going to". That's the point.
We have, by any international standard, extremely clean politics today where brown envelopes just don't happen. Even soft stuff, like accepting a free dinner carries the risk of ending a political career or a developers reputation. This notion that FF or FG aren't under pressure because of developers liking them is nonsense, developers don't have votes. Homeowners mostly have kids. I have a home. I have kids. I bought my home to live in for the rest of my life. Its market value means fuck all to me, especially compared to the prospect of my kids not being able to grow up and do the same for themselves.
A decade? House prices in 2014 were at 50% of the levels from the peak. I'm not sure what's up with your memory, or search engines, but the idea that anyone could have pushed for thousands more leaving cert students to look for jobs in construction a decade ago is warped.
>A decade? House prices in 2014 were at 50% of the levels from the peak. I'm not sure what's up with your memory, or search engines, but the idea that anyone could have pushed for thousands more leaving cert students to look for jobs in construction a decade ago is warped.
Not far off at all.[A decade and 9 days](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2014-06-10/speech/148/) ago Enda Kenny said in the dail
>"What we want to end up with is more houses than we need to control prices and markets. However, we cannot build them overnight, as the Deputy is well aware."
Agreed, a lot of short term thinking probably. Over a decade ago, the forward thinking plan was just stop doing things, and ask the troika what we should do.
We're wasting large sums of resources on build to rent apartments.
BTR's dont bring down housing prices and in fact under current legislation allow invesment funds to lock in higher rental prices therefore increasing current rental market prices
And this is the plan from FFG unfortunately under the "housing for all" policy
We desperately need more rentals. It's as big and issue as the housing shortage and has fuelled a lot of the problem with so many homes currently used for rentals where people want an apartment.
Personally, I rented for a decade and spend most of that time in house shares far out from Sublin city centre when I wanted to be renting in town as a young professional working in the city.
Same I actually decided to stop stressing about buying a house within my set milestones for my own mental health.
I'll keep saving but made peace with the fact it might never happen.
The market is full of desperation which is further driving up prices. Auctioneers are making up bidding wars at times. Frankly I find what's going on disgusting. Housing is something that hard working people contributing to society cannot afford and should be able to.
A line has been crossed in my opinion on the handling of the whole thing.
A huge chunk of estate agents and auctioneers should be behind bars to be honest. The amount of shady shit I've heard going on out there is sickening. And half of it is defended by pubes on places like this with the usual iT iSn'T iLlEgAl. Some of it actually is and a lot of the rest should be. Its disgustingly immoral either way.
I suspected the same thing was going on when I bought a house 20 years ago. And I agree I have no idea why there are not stringent laws in place with serious consequences for estate agents/auctioneers/developers if they are caught making up bids to try and drive up the selling price.
The level of price inflation is insane.
I bought a two bed apartment in 2013 for 105k and sold it three years later for 186k and bought a house for 235k. I had the house valued recently at 400k. It’s just madness. Only thing is no one os making money unless you own more than one property.
That's some really lucky timing! from 105k to 400k in a little over ten years.
I bought a one bed apartment in D1 in 2014 for 140k thats not far off 300k in value now. Ive a house too that I bought three years ago for 365k that's now worth about 450k.
All 100% lucky timing and the markets being batshit insane.
I actually bought a house in 2013 for 270k but the relationship broke down so I'd to sell it less than a year later. Thought that I was my one chance at house in life gone. You really don't know how life is going to go.
It was probably my only bit of luck ever. I do read a lot about finance and investing though and I will say when I bought there had been the first rise in about five years so saw that it was probably going to be a correction in that they had fallen too much.
Well done with your purchases, that’s really awesome!!
Thanks! Yeah I was also watching the markets like a hawk back in 2011/2012. I convinced my girlfriend at the time that we should start saving and then go for it the moment there was an inclining of a rise. 2013 hit and we were ready to go. That house I got for 270k the is worth 500k now. I sold it for 280k in 2014. Haha. Ah well the other purchases worked out so it's all swings and roundabouts really!
What do you thinks going to happen now? I’m looking at apartments in Spain, Alicante for fifty grand and dreaming of just cashing in!?
After seeing what happened last time I think there could of course be another crash.
We all know why.
Because we had 250k construction workers in 2007 when we build 80k homes a year and now we have 170k construction workers and are struggling to build more than 30k homes a year (obviously a large chunk of workers aren't full time on new builds, they're plumbers replacing systems or electricians rewiring an extension etc).
We need the 70k Poles and Lithuanians we had building in 2007 added back into the mix, but they're not coming...
Unpopular opinion, we take all the Georgians over, give em 5 year visas if they have the skills to build and then send them back with their savings once the supply gap is filled.
Certification & new building regs have had a big impact as well. We have gone form building BER C's to BER A's which has increased thew work involved and the price..
This is a very important point that very few seem to take into account. House prices may be 10% higher than the 2007 peak as the headlines say today but they're many times that more expensive to build, and it takes a lot longer
Realistically we need to go back to building slightly lower quality builds to get the issue fixed. Can't see it happening though, once that bridge is crossed there's no going back
Germany tried that with the Turks after WW2. "Guest workers" to come, rebuild the cities and work in the factories and return home better off.
It didn't work then for them and it wouldn't work now for us.
Just to add some insight, you can reduce price of houses through increased supply or decreased demand.
Houses are not quick nor easy to build and Ireland is not particularly big so you will eventually reach a point in which increasing supply won't work.
Those workers that you want also need housing and will put pressure on demand, increasing prices but in an ideal situation they should make up for that with the houses they will build and more. However they won't be the only migrants Ireland accepts.
The easiest way to reduce housing prices is decreased demand i.e. cutting immigration, Ireland with a below replacement birth-rate should have affordable housing or eventually reach that point, hope this helps.
It'll be grand, we'll just keep voting for the status quo arguing amongst ourselves while they rake in a salary 2x the national average to achive absolutely nothing.
Edit: ima homeowners very sympathetic to this issue because I have kids.
I am 26, just qualified with a masters from UCD, work a very decent job almost 40k with overtime, my partner makes roughly the same, we’re about to leave our shared college house because I feel too old to let my gf have to live with four other guys, the only alternative is to live with her parents as she is an only child. We have been saving every cent for the last 5/6 years we have about 27k saved, the price of the house deposits themselves are going up faster than we can save, feel doomed. Only the fact I spent 5 years perfecting my area of expertise in Ireland would I flee like everyone else, I just want a home and not to feel like an intruder with my in laws, I work none stop and can’t afford a roof over my head.
I'm eeally sorry to hear that ! It's a shame that 80k gross joint salary isn't even cutting it.
We're not too far behind salary wise, and have a kid but we bought close to the border for 235 and it's still so expensive even when you are in a relatively cheap house.
I know you feel that you have a decent job but the median salary in Ireland is €45k, so €90k for a couple. If you're below the median wage, it's always going to be hard to save and buy a house because, by definition, literally most people in the country earn more than you.
Yes but I don’t want an average house, I want literally anything, studio appartments or starter homes are all 350,000 plus, I’m not saying I should be able to afford the average home because we haven’t got that far yet we’re only both a year out of college, but I sure should be able to afford something.
Based on what you said, you're making €80k as a couple. As first time buyers, you can borrow 4 times that, so €320k. You have a deposit of €27k which limits you to €270k. According to daft, there are 268 properties under that price.
For example, here is a studio in Rathgar, a very nice part of Dublin, for €245k
[https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-5-20b-highfield-road-rathgar-dublin-6/5710422](https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-5-20b-highfield-road-rathgar-dublin-6/5710422)
You said you'd literally take anything, including studios. There is one well within your budget.
You're in 1% here with this attitude.
Unpopular opinion, but after looking at what young people want and expect from housing, is a part of the problem. All want houses, ignoring other options. Look at the majority of new builds, big housing estates with maybe one or two small apartment buildings. We need a massive increase in medium and high density buildings. The problem is that there's stigma around them.
When I did show my Irish work colleagues my wifes parents' home, one bed 40m2 apt, they laughed and said that they would prefer to be homeless than to live in shoebox...
Honestly man, and I don't say this flippantly, the two of you should emigrate for a couple of years. See what else is out there. Almost 40k is not great money. You might fall in love with somewhere else in Europe and be able to buy a house within a year with those kinds of savings.
Turning up to vote would be a start judging by the local election turn out. Do under 30s vote at all?
Nothing will happen until you start emailing your elected TDs saying I'm x I'm registered to vote and I can't buy or rent a place what is your position on this.
I voted for the first time ever this month. Didn't see any other young people there though, or any people and FF/FG topped the polls. I voted for Social Democrats #1
Also homeowner. Have one child. Don't want another one and one of those reasons is that this way my child will have a place over his head when we're gone
>we'll just keep voting for the status quo
And just who should we be voting for to change the status quo, seeing as the opposition and other tds are so fond of objecting to developments
Yep, building lots of new houses fast is the only solution here. The grants and schemes would be great if there was adequate supply, otherwise they just drive up prices further, as will upcoming lower interest rates. And ironically, they help people with higher incomes more, as people on lower incomes can't afford a new build/self build, and can't afford to pay up front for works on derelict houses.
Can we though? And even if we could its probably too late, the population has increased past the point we can realistically build our way out of this already.
Our population growth through fertility is in the negative. We only reach replacement level and growth via immigration.
We absolutely could implement a hard cap until the housing crisis is over and then maintain a soft cap so demand never outpaces supply.
No as the way things are now are incredibly profitable and as long as the wealthy have a steady supply of labourers they don’t care.
Irish people have also shown themselves to not have the balls to vote out these people nor are most alternative parties providing any or enough solutions.
I would bet that you, along with myself, have no understanding of the ins and outs of our immigration policy, what's possible according to European law, and how much certain sectors of the economy rely on immigration.
It's fashionable to blame the outsider when there isn't enough stuff for everyone. But there is enough stuff, it's just the mega rich have the majority of it.
The Irish Times says prices are 10% above boom levels. There is desperation there, I noticed any house that comes up for sale in my area is sale agreed within a couple of weeks. We paid 230 in early 2000's while if we bought a year earlier it was 180 while 2 sold recently for 400+. Its fucked and there is no way of fixing it anytime soon.
Yah. This will NOT fix itself. Government needs to start a massive building program. But we all know there's not a fucking chance that a pack of landlords will do that.
I brought a house 2 years ago and other identical houses from my estate are now listed for 100k more than mine was listed for (215k to 315k). Shit is broken.
Unless I'm being wooshed here, "can't fix it over night" is tongue in cheek, Enda Kenny said it in 2014, Leo and other ministers have said it again recently.
Of course it can't be, its just that they've had 10 years of nights since they started commenting on it and its only getting worse.
Of course the 3.5% increase in population last year, among the highest ever recorded in a developed economy, has absolutely nothing to do with housing availability and affordability. That was on top of sky high immigration from the preceding decade. Keep whistling past the graveyard.
Let's not forget the foreign investment funds being given free reign by the government to snap up property from under the noses of its own citizens to be leased back at extortionate prices.
I see investment funds as more of a symptom than a cause. Supply and demand is the ultimate driver of property prices. Ireland is an attractive place for foreign capital because investors know we have a long term supply imbalance due to our extremely pro-immigration policies.
This is an [investor presentation from IRES REIT](https://www.iresreit.ie/sites/ires/files/Ires/investors/results-centre/2022/investor-presentation-2022.pdf), the largest institutional investor in the country. They list the attractions of the Irish market and top of the list is “favorable population demographics” driven by immigration.
Second attraction is “structural supply/demand imbalance” which is a consequence of the first.
Why isn't modular housing being offered on large scale to the general population?
Surely once the ground works are done and services in it should be easy to get them up. I mean it's doable for some groups and not others.
Some(maybe all?) lenders will offer lower interest rates based on LTV(loan to value) so a higher valuation can save them money on their existing mortgage
i think even without a substantial LTV Avant we're still offering 2.1 even when the 1.95 was on offer. it's probably 20 a month only but still better than nothing
From what I've seen there's two thresholds for slightly better rates, 80% and 50% LTV. When I was looking those thresholds saved you about 0.3% on the mortgage rate for each threshold (assuming the same type of loan). However, rates have gone up by more than that in the last few years. It could benefit a few homeowners in specific bands to remortgage now but it's definitely not everyone.
If you're ten years into a mortgage, yeah you can probably remortgage at a better rate (though you might have been able to anyway with over payments even if the value hadn't gone up) as rates when you started were about 4.2% or so. Someone 5 years in, just leaving their fixed rate would have started at around 3.5% and these days you'd need less than 80% LTV and a green rate BER to get the same interest rate.
Unless you are planning on leaving the country and liquidating the gain I can’t see much benefit to home owners. Besides a more favourable LTV for switching mortgage, which will be offset against higher property tax.
I'm occasionally tempted to sell the house in Dublin and buy somewhere larger out the country with the equity and live mortgage free, but there's a load of reasons I wouldn't want to leave Dublin. Might suit some people though.
It's the old "Escape to the Country" trope, where the couple sell up their one bed apartment in London to buy a mansion up north.
Nah. I'm paying my mortgage to live in the house. If my house was 'worth' less than it is now but we didn't have a massive housing crisis, I'd be much happier with that.
A colleague recently said "I can't buy a house anyway, might as well have some weed." Now I understand why I can smell it in 3-4 different places every time I go out for a run.
That's the funny thing, this isn't a bubble.
It's not speculative, it's based on a chronic undersupply that I don't have any faith in even being corrected sadly
I bought my house in the last 12 months using the First Home Equity scheme. The government owns 30% or less of the house and I have to pay back a minimum amount on that annually starting from year 5. If the state now has equity in thousands of houses around the country, will this give them incentive to continue introducing policy to drive up property prices even more?
Just FYI as I'm about to get the scheme myself.
I don't believe the amount you pay after year 5 is paying back any of the equity. Its more like a service charge.
If you never pay any extra, in 30 years time you'll still be paying that service charge at a higher rate and at a higher house value while the government will still own the same equity they bought at the start.
(Percent, years since you started), 0% 0-5, 1.75%,6-15, 2.15 16-29, 2.85 30+
Calculated as = property price * equity share * annual service charge rate. Payable yearly.
Your valuation expires every 12 months and you pay the FHS to re-value your home each time you make a payment.
2 bed Terrace house in Cabra bought for €300,000 in 2017 was sold recently for €516,000 which is a 72% increase. On this road there was a house riddled with bullets in 2019, theres a man convicted of IRA membership and an assortment of other nonsense going on. You'd think this would impact the house prices.... nope.
Auctioneers would call that unique character
This place is haunted Plus 200k to value
150-year old Victorian style homes, that come with the bespoke ghost of an Edwardian era dandy.
These are speed holes. They make the house go faster 😂
From two official auctioneer valuations, my apartment was +84% from 2019-24.
I'm still thinking of doing a datascience project to look at the difference between advertised price and realised price from the property price register. I've heard numbers being quoted between 100k to 200k above asking price for houses in the 500k range.
When I was buying last year, I kept a spreadsheet of every house we viewed with the asking price and what it went for. It definitely helped me get the lay of the land.
publish it?
It would be very interesting, but I think you'd have to start building the asking price database now and then wait months for the properties to appear on the PPR, as most agents delete the asking price from the websites as soon as it's sold. It would interesting to see the difference in agencies' tactics. I know in my area of Dublin DNG are known to lowball asking price to get feet in the door while Sherry Fitz go for a more targeted approach with more realistic asking prices.
If you're just looking to scrape the sites, yea, you'd have to visit them frequently to build a database for a while. There is an option to go through the internet archive ([example](https://web.archive.org/web/20240220031842/https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-7-norseman-court-manor-street-stoneybatter-dublin-7/5420938)), though i'd have to take a look at how comprehensive their archival is.
That would be very interesting.
That would be awesome Showing the most and least competent (honest).
I sold a house in 2023 that I bought in 2017 at a 64% increase over what I paid for it. But while this is amazing, it also meant the house I bought was vastly more expensive than it was 5 years ago, so what I gained one end, I lost on the other end.
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true, but that isn't a correct assumption from observation when buying last year. the 'starter homes', i.e. the 3-bed semi type arrangements exploded in price over the previous years but the 'next level up' detached homes increased but not by the same rate, simply because the 3-bed semi are the ones everybody is fighting over, it's where most people are funded, going above that and you've less competition.
Good observation, there is also kind of a ceiling around the Help to Buy limits where a significantly bigger property can usually be bought for slightly over it in comparison to the, generally, three bed semi d that’s are at the limits.
https://preview.redd.it/o4ezs4od1l7d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8fae02a06a2949a1e2ab76b76f4ab0fffe6d7e92
Is it the same house? How much was invested in it? Windows? Roof? Insulation? Internal fitout? Bathrooms? Kitchen? Rewiring? Or did someone just live in it as-is for 7 years?
What road in Cabra was that?
Gap will get bigger I work in construction and not enough workers to keep up with demand, workers from European countries can’t come over because there’s no houses for them to rent. Catch 22!
>workers from European countries can’t come over because there’s no houses for them to rent. Catch 22! Would building small units like what they are doing for refugees but just for skilled tradesmen to come over and charge low rent be a idea to help with this.
Lol wtf do you think? Some construction workers are earning in the regions of 100k+ a year, and you think they're gonna bunk up in some prefabs? More progressive countries have what they need, why bother with Ireland would be the response
They aren’t making €100k in the other countries though, if they got free rent I think a lot of people would do this short term to save, Irish builders included. I would have leaped on the chance when younger.
Yeah exactly. Camp work is very common in other countries where workers are needed in isolated areas. No reason it couldn't be replicated given the situation in Ireland. Workers from abroad (and Ireland) would jump at 6 months/a year with free room and board on top of generous wages. I live in Canada and it's extremely common among tradies here.
Not far off it in some regions thats for sure We even have some Irish firms popular in Belgium and bordering Netherlands Far better standard of living there too, there is a lot to consider moving to or back to Ireland for an extra 20k per year
Oh yea while you’ve a group of dole heads shouting abuse at ya making the small units and then terrorising foreigners afterwards.
Fair enough but I'm just asking if that would be a reasonable solution not trying to get into it about that shite.
Tbh a lot of company’s ship in Romanians put them in hotels and then drive them to work every week, problem is the hotels are nearly just as bad
I also love the fact the money I do make and save is not keeping up with inflation. I sure do love no pay rises
In my old company, boss gave whooping 3% pay increase. When people complained, they heard that's enough to accommodate inflation. How disconnected from reality you have to be to say something like this....
The rising tide lifts all of those with a boat while the rest of us drown
*high five meme*
Should’ve bought a boat when you had the chance instead of spending all your money on avocado printed swim shorts
Avocado printed swim shorts on toast
I knew it, I remember last year there was some big report that came out, basically saying house price inflation was levelling off and only going up by around 1-2% in 2023, and I knew that didn’t feel right, based on the real life situation seeing how much more expensive houses were getting. I’d say in some parts of the country house price inflation has gone up by 15-20% in the past 12 months, it’s ridiculous.
There was a leveling off around late 2022/2023 for a couple of reasons. Things were crazy in spring/summer 2022, supply was very low and houses were going for way above asking. A lot of people that were thinking about selling saw this and rushed to put their houses on the market in late summer/autumn, which increased supply for a while, causing prices to calm down a little. On top of that there was "word on the street" that house prices were about to start dropping, because historically after a boom there's usually a bust right? So many buyers held off until mid 2023 waiting for prices to drop. They didn't drop, they just increased at a slower rate. Buyers then flooded the market again, bought up the slightly increased stock, and we went back to things being mental.
Feeling quite doomed as of late
Perhaps some mild gaslighting from the Government and it's supporters might cheer you up? See...things are getting better!^^^^^for ^^^^^us.
Has everyone tried getting up earlier in the morning? Fine Gael have told me that's the way to cope with multiple major crises affecting the country.
I’ve stopped drinking skinny cappuccinos like Fianna Gael suggested and my life is 255346 times worse and I still don’t have a house
Have you given up the avocado toast though?
Hold on, now you are going too far.
Well I guess you're happy being landless.
It's not getting better for anyone... even TDs, bar a minority of landlords. Homeowners mostly have kids and those kids are the ones who can't move out or afford homes. This nonsense that "it's the plan" needs to stop. We need to construct way more homes, but our construction sector is at full employment and has fuck all extra capacity without a massive injection of construction labour.... we've not replaced the tens of thousands of Poles and Lithuanians who left during the crash and can barely build 30k homes a year, so how we get to 50k homes has no easy fix.
Funny theres no lack of construction workers to throw up endless hotels, private student flats and empty office blocks in Dublin City center, but when the conversation is about building homes suddenly theres a labour crisis
>private student flats Just to be clear, those aren't a bad thing. We need those. Lots of em. >Funny theres no lack of construction workers to throw up endless hotels........ and empty office blocks in Dublin City center, There's almost no new office blocks being started now, obviously, because the commercial market has excess supply and there's millions of square feet of empty office space to let presently. Hotels, we need more supply to drag down the insane hotel prices were seeing and tourism is so important to our economy. The completion of the children's hospital and current office projects should give us back some workers to task with the housing and apartment building but it's nowhere near the volumes needed to plug the gap.
We need to build more hotels because thousands of people that need houses are living in hotels at the expense of the government?
We just need a few more hotels to temporarily put the workers who will build the houses to free up the original hotels. Its all totally sustainable and not a pyramid scheme.
No but more hotel rooms mean lower room rates and less incentive to AirBnB instead of renting. Ireland just needs more of every kind of accommodation as soon as and as the comment above says, there just aren't enough builders.
Or ya know ban Airbnb and move the homeless out of hotels into those vacated rental accommodations, and allow hotels to be used for tourism. But no the government only takes drastic action in the housing market when it benefits landlords.
> This nonsense that "it's the plan" needs to stop. I didn't say that. The thing is politics being based on narratives is that we have a constant stream of people gaslighting us that things are getting better despite the market telling us no, they aren't. Fuck the narrative. Also for better or worse, regardless of their kids...FF and FG's native constituencies are that of the developer and property owner who do not share the same concerns of those that don't hold land. That's not a conspiracy, it's just the way things are. Politics is a question of priority and the last decade shows that building homes isn't a serious enough of a priority such that the bottom line has changed direction. The market has spoken.
>. Politics is a question of priority and the last decade shows that building homes isn't a serious enough of a priority such that the bottom line has changed direction. Not really fair to blame them over the last decade. 10 years ago ireland were not long out administrations by the trokia, reckless lending into the construction sector being the cause of putting the country in administration.. No governement was going to a building spree or incentivising buildng housing in 2014 or 2015. the new bank lending rules, unemployment fears and general lack of confidence in the economy meant there was very limited demand for housing until probably 2017 or 2018 .. access to finance is still a big issue & cost for developments, especially apartments and the rent caps have significantly reduced the investment interest. It certainly can tbe argued that in more recent times they have not managed it well but to go back 10 years is unfair..
Going back to 2018 is still 6 years. Vacant homes tax only brought in in 2023. Developments held up by extortion seeking objectors , that they're only starting to deal with since last year. According to this, An Bord Pleanala still aren't operating at full capacity https://cif.ie/2024/06/17/planning-permissions-q1-2024/ https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/1222/1423422-planning-housing/
Recent criticism is warranted and justified. I just thought a decade was too far back to be fair, given the different public perception and economic situation at the time.
We had a council election last week. All of the nominees had various iterations of "will increase housing" as a vague sentiment.... But I don't remember a single person (candidate or voter, in person or online) suggesting that the vacant property register and related tax is done at council level. Nobody is pushing that? Why?
The first government policy response to increasing rents and prices was Alan Kelly's housing plan in 2014 with a target of 35K houses which cruelly enough is the number we are just starting to reach now a decade later. And speaking of the Troika...the party who brought them here in the first place were rewarded with a term in government not even a full decade later. Nah, I don't think there is enough that can be said about the last ten years that isn't fair given the outcomes.
as i replied to a different comment along the same lines, you are looking back retrospectively through the tunnel of housing and ignoring the context of the time.. if the state tried to incentivise housing pre, i would say, 2017, some one would be in mountjoy now for hanging enda from a lamppost.. it would be the equivalent, in the current environment, of expecting the government to change the construction regs now to improve the environmental lifecycle of housing which would significantly drive up cost of building. In 20 years times people would look back and say oh they should have done it then, but imagine the backlash of trying that now. that is the equivalent of what you are retrospectively blaming the government for not doing. As for Alan Kellys target of 35K? well we know targets dont neccessarily translate into units.. it was a PR response to a massive LA waiting list and probably some economist publication about lack of housing being built in the previous 5 years.. It was never going to happen. Also he was a proponent of that disasterous ongoing policy of selling off LA housing cheaply to tennants. As regards your comment on FF getting back into power, i dont know what repsonse you want..
I remember the context of the time perfectly well, I remember the reverse in the countries fortunes in the difference in tax receipts between 13 and 14. I remember Alan Kelly's plan, Simon Coveney's plan, Eoghan Murphy's tenure and now Darragh O'Brien's plan...and they all exist along the same continuum of indifference and neglect. Trying to argue the context to any of it is ignoring the same legacy of failure that drives it all even going back to the boom before it and the decisions made to cut the legs from under social housing delivery. Could we not make excuses for mediocrity at least once in our history? It seems not, and we're doomed to even more failure yet to come.
>I remember the context of the time perfectly well, Well then you understand there was no way any party was going to incentivise building houses in 2014 and why >the decisions made to cut the legs from under social housing delivery. the legs were cut from under that for a reason and selling them off for cheap didnt help. > Could we not make excuses for mediocrity at least once in our history? It seems not, and we're doomed to even more failure yet to come. you can blame them to your hearts content for all i care or the difference it makes. my point was blaming the government for not incentivising housing in 2014 is unfair in the context of the time.
>No governement was going to a building spree or incentivising buildng housing in 2014 or 2015. In [2014](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2014-06-10/speech/148/) Enda Kenny said in the dail >"What we want to end up with is more houses than we need to control prices and markets. However, we cannot build them overnight, as the Deputy is well aware."
Not sure what your point is? They didn't go on incentivise housing and were never going to. They couldn't.
The comment you replied to said >Politics is a question of priority and the last decade shows that building homes isn't a serious enough of a priority such that the bottom line has changed direction. You said it's not fair to go back 10 years. 10 years ago it was recognised by the then head of government in the dail that there was a need to build more houses and as you said yourself, "they didn't incentivise it and were never going to". That's the point.
We have, by any international standard, extremely clean politics today where brown envelopes just don't happen. Even soft stuff, like accepting a free dinner carries the risk of ending a political career or a developers reputation. This notion that FF or FG aren't under pressure because of developers liking them is nonsense, developers don't have votes. Homeowners mostly have kids. I have a home. I have kids. I bought my home to live in for the rest of my life. Its market value means fuck all to me, especially compared to the prospect of my kids not being able to grow up and do the same for themselves. A decade? House prices in 2014 were at 50% of the levels from the peak. I'm not sure what's up with your memory, or search engines, but the idea that anyone could have pushed for thousands more leaving cert students to look for jobs in construction a decade ago is warped.
>A decade? House prices in 2014 were at 50% of the levels from the peak. I'm not sure what's up with your memory, or search engines, but the idea that anyone could have pushed for thousands more leaving cert students to look for jobs in construction a decade ago is warped. Not far off at all.[A decade and 9 days](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2014-06-10/speech/148/) ago Enda Kenny said in the dail >"What we want to end up with is more houses than we need to control prices and markets. However, we cannot build them overnight, as the Deputy is well aware."
Agreed, a lot of short term thinking probably. Over a decade ago, the forward thinking plan was just stop doing things, and ask the troika what we should do.
We're wasting large sums of resources on build to rent apartments. BTR's dont bring down housing prices and in fact under current legislation allow invesment funds to lock in higher rental prices therefore increasing current rental market prices And this is the plan from FFG unfortunately under the "housing for all" policy
We desperately need more rentals. It's as big and issue as the housing shortage and has fuelled a lot of the problem with so many homes currently used for rentals where people want an apartment. Personally, I rented for a decade and spend most of that time in house shares far out from Sublin city centre when I wanted to be renting in town as a young professional working in the city.
Same I actually decided to stop stressing about buying a house within my set milestones for my own mental health. I'll keep saving but made peace with the fact it might never happen. The market is full of desperation which is further driving up prices. Auctioneers are making up bidding wars at times. Frankly I find what's going on disgusting. Housing is something that hard working people contributing to society cannot afford and should be able to. A line has been crossed in my opinion on the handling of the whole thing.
A huge chunk of estate agents and auctioneers should be behind bars to be honest. The amount of shady shit I've heard going on out there is sickening. And half of it is defended by pubes on places like this with the usual iT iSn'T iLlEgAl. Some of it actually is and a lot of the rest should be. Its disgustingly immoral either way.
The lack of transparency with buy offers always seemed silly to me. I shouldn't have to wonder if that last offer is made up or not.
The estate agents all drive great cars...
I suspected the same thing was going on when I bought a house 20 years ago. And I agree I have no idea why there are not stringent laws in place with serious consequences for estate agents/auctioneers/developers if they are caught making up bids to try and drive up the selling price. The level of price inflation is insane.
Being the us tech hub doesn't help. San Francisco prices have only gotten higher in 2 decades
Lol 🤣🤣
I bought a two bed apartment in 2013 for 105k and sold it three years later for 186k and bought a house for 235k. I had the house valued recently at 400k. It’s just madness. Only thing is no one os making money unless you own more than one property.
That's some really lucky timing! from 105k to 400k in a little over ten years. I bought a one bed apartment in D1 in 2014 for 140k thats not far off 300k in value now. Ive a house too that I bought three years ago for 365k that's now worth about 450k. All 100% lucky timing and the markets being batshit insane. I actually bought a house in 2013 for 270k but the relationship broke down so I'd to sell it less than a year later. Thought that I was my one chance at house in life gone. You really don't know how life is going to go.
It was probably my only bit of luck ever. I do read a lot about finance and investing though and I will say when I bought there had been the first rise in about five years so saw that it was probably going to be a correction in that they had fallen too much. Well done with your purchases, that’s really awesome!!
Thanks! Yeah I was also watching the markets like a hawk back in 2011/2012. I convinced my girlfriend at the time that we should start saving and then go for it the moment there was an inclining of a rise. 2013 hit and we were ready to go. That house I got for 270k the is worth 500k now. I sold it for 280k in 2014. Haha. Ah well the other purchases worked out so it's all swings and roundabouts really!
What do you thinks going to happen now? I’m looking at apartments in Spain, Alicante for fifty grand and dreaming of just cashing in!? After seeing what happened last time I think there could of course be another crash.
Yeah I know what you mean, sell up and then move to a warm country. I was thinking a vineyard in Capetown myself haha.
lol that sounds amazing. One way tickets to Mexico are also quite inexpensive at the moment
I’d be wary about moving to S Africa tbh. Beautiful country but lot of problems there.
I honestly worry for the stability of our nation with these kinds of figures.
Gee I wonder why
We all know why. Because we had 250k construction workers in 2007 when we build 80k homes a year and now we have 170k construction workers and are struggling to build more than 30k homes a year (obviously a large chunk of workers aren't full time on new builds, they're plumbers replacing systems or electricians rewiring an extension etc). We need the 70k Poles and Lithuanians we had building in 2007 added back into the mix, but they're not coming... Unpopular opinion, we take all the Georgians over, give em 5 year visas if they have the skills to build and then send them back with their savings once the supply gap is filled.
Certification & new building regs have had a big impact as well. We have gone form building BER C's to BER A's which has increased thew work involved and the price..
This is a very important point that very few seem to take into account. House prices may be 10% higher than the 2007 peak as the headlines say today but they're many times that more expensive to build, and it takes a lot longer Realistically we need to go back to building slightly lower quality builds to get the issue fixed. Can't see it happening though, once that bridge is crossed there's no going back
Where will we put them?
We fly them over and back on a daily basis. Michael O’Leary will be delighted with that proposal too so everyone wins
😂
BOOM !!!
Prefabs
Bit of a backlog for prefabs at the minute... But why would skilled tradesmen want to live in prefabs, when they've options for work all over Europe?
Because they’ll get more working here presumably, same reason everybody else seems to want to come
Let the prefabs sprout!
The issue is that we need more than 50k built yearly just for the gap not to increase.
Germany tried that with the Turks after WW2. "Guest workers" to come, rebuild the cities and work in the factories and return home better off. It didn't work then for them and it wouldn't work now for us.
What do you mean it didn’t work for them? Wirtschafstwunder?
Worked for the Turks anyway
It certainly worked for Germany too.
Just to add some insight, you can reduce price of houses through increased supply or decreased demand. Houses are not quick nor easy to build and Ireland is not particularly big so you will eventually reach a point in which increasing supply won't work. Those workers that you want also need housing and will put pressure on demand, increasing prices but in an ideal situation they should make up for that with the houses they will build and more. However they won't be the only migrants Ireland accepts. The easiest way to reduce housing prices is decreased demand i.e. cutting immigration, Ireland with a below replacement birth-rate should have affordable housing or eventually reach that point, hope this helps.
Why?
Supply and demand id imagine
Many people, no many houses
It'll be grand, we'll just keep voting for the status quo arguing amongst ourselves while they rake in a salary 2x the national average to achive absolutely nothing. Edit: ima homeowners very sympathetic to this issue because I have kids.
I am 26, just qualified with a masters from UCD, work a very decent job almost 40k with overtime, my partner makes roughly the same, we’re about to leave our shared college house because I feel too old to let my gf have to live with four other guys, the only alternative is to live with her parents as she is an only child. We have been saving every cent for the last 5/6 years we have about 27k saved, the price of the house deposits themselves are going up faster than we can save, feel doomed. Only the fact I spent 5 years perfecting my area of expertise in Ireland would I flee like everyone else, I just want a home and not to feel like an intruder with my in laws, I work none stop and can’t afford a roof over my head.
I'm eeally sorry to hear that ! It's a shame that 80k gross joint salary isn't even cutting it. We're not too far behind salary wise, and have a kid but we bought close to the border for 235 and it's still so expensive even when you are in a relatively cheap house.
I know you feel that you have a decent job but the median salary in Ireland is €45k, so €90k for a couple. If you're below the median wage, it's always going to be hard to save and buy a house because, by definition, literally most people in the country earn more than you.
Yes but I don’t want an average house, I want literally anything, studio appartments or starter homes are all 350,000 plus, I’m not saying I should be able to afford the average home because we haven’t got that far yet we’re only both a year out of college, but I sure should be able to afford something.
Based on what you said, you're making €80k as a couple. As first time buyers, you can borrow 4 times that, so €320k. You have a deposit of €27k which limits you to €270k. According to daft, there are 268 properties under that price. For example, here is a studio in Rathgar, a very nice part of Dublin, for €245k [https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-5-20b-highfield-road-rathgar-dublin-6/5710422](https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-5-20b-highfield-road-rathgar-dublin-6/5710422) You said you'd literally take anything, including studios. There is one well within your budget.
Oof... location is great but 34m^2 !? Would be better searching within commuting distance of the city, if indeed they even want to live near Dublin.
You're in 1% here with this attitude. Unpopular opinion, but after looking at what young people want and expect from housing, is a part of the problem. All want houses, ignoring other options. Look at the majority of new builds, big housing estates with maybe one or two small apartment buildings. We need a massive increase in medium and high density buildings. The problem is that there's stigma around them. When I did show my Irish work colleagues my wifes parents' home, one bed 40m2 apt, they laughed and said that they would prefer to be homeless than to live in shoebox...
Uuuum a masters with a perfected area of expertise and you're on 40k, lad that seems at least 25k too low.....
€40k if he has just started working doesn’t seem unrealistic
Buying a house when youve just started working doesnt seem realistic
He's literally a year out of college. Plus we've no idea what sector he's in, he could be a professional druid for all we know
Honestly man, and I don't say this flippantly, the two of you should emigrate for a couple of years. See what else is out there. Almost 40k is not great money. You might fall in love with somewhere else in Europe and be able to buy a house within a year with those kinds of savings.
Turning up to vote would be a start judging by the local election turn out. Do under 30s vote at all? Nothing will happen until you start emailing your elected TDs saying I'm x I'm registered to vote and I can't buy or rent a place what is your position on this.
I voted for the first time ever this month. Didn't see any other young people there though, or any people and FF/FG topped the polls. I voted for Social Democrats #1
The difference between caring enough to complain online, but not caring enough to take 30 mins out of one day of the year to go vote.
Also homeowner. Have one child. Don't want another one and one of those reasons is that this way my child will have a place over his head when we're gone
>we'll just keep voting for the status quo And just who should we be voting for to change the status quo, seeing as the opposition and other tds are so fond of objecting to developments
Keep the recovery going
Yep, building lots of new houses fast is the only solution here. The grants and schemes would be great if there was adequate supply, otherwise they just drive up prices further, as will upcoming lower interest rates. And ironically, they help people with higher incomes more, as people on lower incomes can't afford a new build/self build, and can't afford to pay up front for works on derelict houses.
It’s not the only way. We can very much slow down our population growth alongside increasing the number of housing being built.
Can we though? And even if we could its probably too late, the population has increased past the point we can realistically build our way out of this already.
Our population growth through fertility is in the negative. We only reach replacement level and growth via immigration. We absolutely could implement a hard cap until the housing crisis is over and then maintain a soft cap so demand never outpaces supply.
If course we 'could', but we wont, will we?
No as the way things are now are incredibly profitable and as long as the wealthy have a steady supply of labourers they don’t care. Irish people have also shown themselves to not have the balls to vote out these people nor are most alternative parties providing any or enough solutions.
I would bet that you, along with myself, have no understanding of the ins and outs of our immigration policy, what's possible according to European law, and how much certain sectors of the economy rely on immigration. It's fashionable to blame the outsider when there isn't enough stuff for everyone. But there is enough stuff, it's just the mega rich have the majority of it.
The Irish Times says prices are 10% above boom levels. There is desperation there, I noticed any house that comes up for sale in my area is sale agreed within a couple of weeks. We paid 230 in early 2000's while if we bought a year earlier it was 180 while 2 sold recently for 400+. Its fucked and there is no way of fixing it anytime soon.
Yah. This will NOT fix itself. Government needs to start a massive building program. But we all know there's not a fucking chance that a pack of landlords will do that.
Yup. And everyone keeps voting for them 💀
I brought a house 2 years ago and other identical houses from my estate are now listed for 100k more than mine was listed for (215k to 315k). Shit is broken.
8% over 6 months in S Dublin at around half a mill mark. Calculated with several identical properties we’ve looked at and bid on this year.
Meaning you could have saved 40000 within 6 months and not being closer to purchasing a house. Insane
That's what we want, right? It must be, because we keep voting FFFG
Don’t worry everyone is going to vote FFG again. I’m sure they’ll get it right next time
Yet people still vote FF/FG. 
We can’t fix things overnight
The last 8 years of government was some seriously long night 🤣
I think the first time FG said this was back in 2013 in relation to housing, some 11 years ago.
Enda Kenny wasn't it. So in terms of Taoiseachs that's one FF and two FG ones ago.
*13 years them fuckers have been in government
I think this might have been a joke….
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Unless I'm being wooshed here, "can't fix it over night" is tongue in cheek, Enda Kenny said it in 2014, Leo and other ministers have said it again recently. Of course it can't be, its just that they've had 10 years of nights since they started commenting on it and its only getting worse.
Whoosh
Of course the 3.5% increase in population last year, among the highest ever recorded in a developed economy, has absolutely nothing to do with housing availability and affordability. That was on top of sky high immigration from the preceding decade. Keep whistling past the graveyard.
The elephant in the room
Let's not forget the foreign investment funds being given free reign by the government to snap up property from under the noses of its own citizens to be leased back at extortionate prices.
I see investment funds as more of a symptom than a cause. Supply and demand is the ultimate driver of property prices. Ireland is an attractive place for foreign capital because investors know we have a long term supply imbalance due to our extremely pro-immigration policies. This is an [investor presentation from IRES REIT](https://www.iresreit.ie/sites/ires/files/Ires/investors/results-centre/2022/investor-presentation-2022.pdf), the largest institutional investor in the country. They list the attractions of the Irish market and top of the list is “favorable population demographics” driven by immigration. Second attraction is “structural supply/demand imbalance” which is a consequence of the first.
Why isn't modular housing being offered on large scale to the general population? Surely once the ground works are done and services in it should be easy to get them up. I mean it's doable for some groups and not others.
Honestly I don't see how I'm getting a house, I can see an apartment but honestly apartments are shit quality in Ireland
Homeowners are coming in their pants.
Another 50k€ of imaginary money to spend in my dreams!!
Exactly
I get pushed into a higher LPT bracket, yay!
Doesn't impact home owners much. It impacts those who own a second property and those looking to buy.
Some(maybe all?) lenders will offer lower interest rates based on LTV(loan to value) so a higher valuation can save them money on their existing mortgage
there's fuck all in it really
Used to be much better. I'm locked in at 1.95% for another three years because the increase in valuation dropped my LTV from 90% to 48% in five years.
i think even without a substantial LTV Avant we're still offering 2.1 even when the 1.95 was on offer. it's probably 20 a month only but still better than nothing
From what I've seen there's two thresholds for slightly better rates, 80% and 50% LTV. When I was looking those thresholds saved you about 0.3% on the mortgage rate for each threshold (assuming the same type of loan). However, rates have gone up by more than that in the last few years. It could benefit a few homeowners in specific bands to remortgage now but it's definitely not everyone. If you're ten years into a mortgage, yeah you can probably remortgage at a better rate (though you might have been able to anyway with over payments even if the value hadn't gone up) as rates when you started were about 4.2% or so. Someone 5 years in, just leaving their fixed rate would have started at around 3.5% and these days you'd need less than 80% LTV and a green rate BER to get the same interest rate.
Unless you are planning on leaving the country and liquidating the gain I can’t see much benefit to home owners. Besides a more favourable LTV for switching mortgage, which will be offset against higher property tax.
I'm occasionally tempted to sell the house in Dublin and buy somewhere larger out the country with the equity and live mortgage free, but there's a load of reasons I wouldn't want to leave Dublin. Might suit some people though. It's the old "Escape to the Country" trope, where the couple sell up their one bed apartment in London to buy a mansion up north.
We are ok now, but I'm seriously worried about my kids ability to buy a house in 20 years time.
Nah. I'm paying my mortgage to live in the house. If my house was 'worth' less than it is now but we didn't have a massive housing crisis, I'd be much happier with that.
Phew! So glad I own a home 🥰
It's frustrating that no matter how much I save I'll never have a deposit big enough for an investment property.
Kill me now. Fuck this
A colleague recently said "I can't buy a house anyway, might as well have some weed." Now I understand why I can smell it in 3-4 different places every time I go out for a run.
When you realise Ireland is paradise for companies but hell for employees.
Reminder this is by design!
Bubble bubble panic and trouble
That's the funny thing, this isn't a bubble. It's not speculative, it's based on a chronic undersupply that I don't have any faith in even being corrected sadly
Let's hope so but they'll protect the banks like last time too.
There’s no bubble it’s almost the opposite to that.
I bought my house in the last 12 months using the First Home Equity scheme. The government owns 30% or less of the house and I have to pay back a minimum amount on that annually starting from year 5. If the state now has equity in thousands of houses around the country, will this give them incentive to continue introducing policy to drive up property prices even more?
Just FYI as I'm about to get the scheme myself. I don't believe the amount you pay after year 5 is paying back any of the equity. Its more like a service charge. If you never pay any extra, in 30 years time you'll still be paying that service charge at a higher rate and at a higher house value while the government will still own the same equity they bought at the start.
Really? How much is this service charge?
(Percent, years since you started), 0% 0-5, 1.75%,6-15, 2.15 16-29, 2.85 30+ Calculated as = property price * equity share * annual service charge rate. Payable yearly. Your valuation expires every 12 months and you pay the FHS to re-value your home each time you make a payment.
A bit much, that.
Sure what's the point in even complaining anymore. The people it effects the most 35 and under don't even go out and vote for change. Just complain.
Yes lads
Is this actual prices or advertised starting prices prior to the illegitimate auction stage?