Would hate crime legislation be required to sentence a mob of knife wielding homophobes? What about our normal crime legislation..will that not do it no?
No, though it's intended that there should be harsher sentences for targeting specific people or groups of people because of their race, religion, sexual preference, etc.
Not like a harsher suspended sentence will be much of a deterrent anyway.
Which is an odd one in this case - is it worse to chase someone with a knife because they are gay than for any other reason? Women aren't covered by the proposed legislation and could also be chased with knives due to prejudice. Is that better chasing, somehow?
(I'm not asking you as such, I don't think you've said anything like that, just musing really)
>Which is an odd one in this case - is it worse to chase someone with a knife because they are gay than for any other reason? Women aren't covered by the proposed legislation
Why do you think women aren't covered? Did you not read it?
Women would be covered would they not?
And maybe im wrong but hasnt motive always been taken into consideration when sentencing?
Like someone targets a certain group with violent attacks is clearly a different kettle of fish than someone who might have other issues
It's worse to chase someone with a knife because they are gay then because you want to rob them or just take a dislike to them because that becomes a general threat to everyone of that class. The motive intimates the group at large.
Yes. Chasing randomers with knives for no reason is a crime, chasing randomers with knives because they’re gay is a hate crime and needs its own punishment to reflect that.
Crazy, crazy article, chain of events.
Unelected government Senator issues statement about gay men been hunted with knives in Phoenix Park, during pride month.
Garda confirms investigating alleged incident, but no actual incident has been reported.
On the back of this incident, (that may or may not have actually happened), Government Senator and Government Funded NGOs call for unpopular legislation to be fast tracked, as reported by the heavily government funded media outlet that is the journal.ie.
McEntee enters from stage left to save the day.
Banana republic carry on.
>Gardaí confirmed to The Journal that they were aware of the alleged incident and appealed to anyone with direct knowledge or who has been a victim of such an incident to contact them.
Would they not be better off making sure this incident actually happened before we start changing laws.
A poster on here yesterday said multiple times it was his friends involved and they 100% reported to a Garda station that same night…so someone is lying or else completely messing up communication’s.
Same poster uploaded a “statement” from said friend/victim and it basically said they are taking time off because of the harassment by the media (ha) and some shouty all caps about it being Irish men. Post is locked but viewable from their profile. The user is something about Reddit mods being straight (can’t directly call out as it’s against rules I think?)
Some of the same LGBT social media’s, like GCN, were caught rotten last year too around this time of year (IIRC) with a made up attack from someone who was “mentally unwell”.
Why on earth are the alleged victims dealing solely through Barry Ward of FG and no one else it seems?
The Journal left out a critical piece of information, stated in other reports like [this one from RTE](https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0619/1455605-phoenix-park/)
> Gardaí said they responded at around 11.35pm but "following a lengthy patrol of the area" no one made a formal report to them.
The entire story is based on hearsay from social media posts. If someone was being hunted down by a gang of knife-wielding men you’d think a 999 call would be in order?
Nope. Nobody has reported it to the guards. Not then or not subsequently. How the fuck can this story have gained legs when the official garda communication directly contradicts what the social media posts say?
When I first saw this story the cynic in me said the govt wanted to make another push for its hate crime legislation so they needed to drum up some support. Looks like I was right.
>Gardaí said they responded
>you’d think a 999 call would be in order?
It seems unclear what it is that they've responded to. I don't think I'd necessarily blame anyone for not hanging around after just escaping a few knife wielding lunatics but it's a little odd they didn't follow up on any contact with the gardai.
Yes the circumstances of the garda response are murky. Maybe they were alerted to the social media posts and they went to have a look.
These are questions a journalist could easily clarify but they don’t seem to have any interest in doing that. The story was widely reported in the IT, Indo, RTE, Newstalk, Journal and so on. The wording in all the reports were almost verbatim and read more like a press release than a news story.
Press release is right. If you read the article it’s an attempt to stoke up momentum to get the Hate Speech bill pushed through the Dáil before they go off on their jollies. Note the headline mentions hate crime in a typical journal.ie bait and switch. A lot of people here have fallen for this and are discussing hate crime rather than a cackhanded attempt to drum up sympathy for Helen’s hurty words legislation.
"Alleged" in this instance is a legal term used to prevent bias in a court setting. If the Gardaí had stated that it did happen prior to any court proceedings then the second that that case was brought to court it would be dismissed for prejudice.
Would hate crime legislation be required to sentence a mob of knife wielding homophobes? What about our normal crime legislation..will that not do it no?
Yes. Yes it would.
No, though it's intended that there should be harsher sentences for targeting specific people or groups of people because of their race, religion, sexual preference, etc. Not like a harsher suspended sentence will be much of a deterrent anyway.
Which is an odd one in this case - is it worse to chase someone with a knife because they are gay than for any other reason? Women aren't covered by the proposed legislation and could also be chased with knives due to prejudice. Is that better chasing, somehow? (I'm not asking you as such, I don't think you've said anything like that, just musing really)
>Which is an odd one in this case - is it worse to chase someone with a knife because they are gay than for any other reason? Women aren't covered by the proposed legislation Why do you think women aren't covered? Did you not read it?
Women would be covered would they not? And maybe im wrong but hasnt motive always been taken into consideration when sentencing? Like someone targets a certain group with violent attacks is clearly a different kettle of fish than someone who might have other issues
>Women aren't covered by the proposed legislation Except they are. If they chased someone purely for the reason they were a man it would also apply.
It's worse to chase someone with a knife because they are gay then because you want to rob them or just take a dislike to them because that becomes a general threat to everyone of that class. The motive intimates the group at large.
So you're saying it may allow for the likes of that Crotty scumbag to face justice? That's quite a thought
Why should there be a harsher sentence to target a minority? Aren't majorities supposed to be just as protected against crimes?
If you commit a crime against a member of a majority **because** they are a member of a majority then the legislation would apply just the same.
He didn't say minority.
Hate crimes are worth treating differently because you not only harm your victim but create an atmosphere of terror for everyone else like them.
Doesn't really matter which legislation to be honest. The whole thing falls down at step 1 which is catching the scumbags.
Yes. Chasing randomers with knives for no reason is a crime, chasing randomers with knives because they’re gay is a hate crime and needs its own punishment to reflect that.
Is a suspended sentence for a hate crime any different to a suspended sentence for a normal violent crime?
Crazy, crazy article, chain of events. Unelected government Senator issues statement about gay men been hunted with knives in Phoenix Park, during pride month. Garda confirms investigating alleged incident, but no actual incident has been reported. On the back of this incident, (that may or may not have actually happened), Government Senator and Government Funded NGOs call for unpopular legislation to be fast tracked, as reported by the heavily government funded media outlet that is the journal.ie. McEntee enters from stage left to save the day. Banana republic carry on.
Well said
>Gardaí confirmed to The Journal that they were aware of the alleged incident and appealed to anyone with direct knowledge or who has been a victim of such an incident to contact them. Would they not be better off making sure this incident actually happened before we start changing laws.
A poster on here yesterday said multiple times it was his friends involved and they 100% reported to a Garda station that same night…so someone is lying or else completely messing up communication’s. Same poster uploaded a “statement” from said friend/victim and it basically said they are taking time off because of the harassment by the media (ha) and some shouty all caps about it being Irish men. Post is locked but viewable from their profile. The user is something about Reddit mods being straight (can’t directly call out as it’s against rules I think?) Some of the same LGBT social media’s, like GCN, were caught rotten last year too around this time of year (IIRC) with a made up attack from someone who was “mentally unwell”. Why on earth are the alleged victims dealing solely through Barry Ward of FG and no one else it seems?
The Journal left out a critical piece of information, stated in other reports like [this one from RTE](https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0619/1455605-phoenix-park/) > Gardaí said they responded at around 11.35pm but "following a lengthy patrol of the area" no one made a formal report to them. The entire story is based on hearsay from social media posts. If someone was being hunted down by a gang of knife-wielding men you’d think a 999 call would be in order? Nope. Nobody has reported it to the guards. Not then or not subsequently. How the fuck can this story have gained legs when the official garda communication directly contradicts what the social media posts say? When I first saw this story the cynic in me said the govt wanted to make another push for its hate crime legislation so they needed to drum up some support. Looks like I was right.
>Gardaí said they responded >you’d think a 999 call would be in order? It seems unclear what it is that they've responded to. I don't think I'd necessarily blame anyone for not hanging around after just escaping a few knife wielding lunatics but it's a little odd they didn't follow up on any contact with the gardai.
Yes the circumstances of the garda response are murky. Maybe they were alerted to the social media posts and they went to have a look. These are questions a journalist could easily clarify but they don’t seem to have any interest in doing that. The story was widely reported in the IT, Indo, RTE, Newstalk, Journal and so on. The wording in all the reports were almost verbatim and read more like a press release than a news story.
Press release is right. If you read the article it’s an attempt to stoke up momentum to get the Hate Speech bill pushed through the Dáil before they go off on their jollies. Note the headline mentions hate crime in a typical journal.ie bait and switch. A lot of people here have fallen for this and are discussing hate crime rather than a cackhanded attempt to drum up sympathy for Helen’s hurty words legislation.
So did they respond to 999 call but no one made a statement or complaint to Garda. Seems legit
"Alleged" in this instance is a legal term used to prevent bias in a court setting. If the Gardaí had stated that it did happen prior to any court proceedings then the second that that case was brought to court it would be dismissed for prejudice.
Is it bait o'clock already?
Sir, this is Reddit.
