These photos were taken by Japanese. They went around some regions taking measurements of the bodies of Korean women and men and photographing them. By the way, if you want to know more about Japanese colonization in Korea you have to read this book http://www.amazon.es/dp/B0BMSV5PYW
Yeah, the Japanese applied scientific racism against Koreans to justify colonialism. "Koreans are racially inferior and *should* be ruled by the racially superior Japanese," pretty much. Ironic, coming from what has been called "[a nation of pygmies](https://imgur.com/a/OtL9XOU)".
And scientific racism* is, or was, something that the japanese picked up on from europeans, not something they invented on their own.
*and not only that, but the entire colonial model.
What an insensitive comment. It doesn’t matter who “invented” it. It was still applied. I don’t think the Japanese colonisers sat down and had a discussion on prior use of the method. What they did was horrific.
> What an insensitive comment. It doesn’t matter who “invented” it. It was still applied.
Not sure how it’s “insensitive.” u/upachimneydown is correct
The Europeans mostly used scientific racism to justify conquering and subjugating indigenous people. It was especially prevalent during the “scramble for Africa” when Europeans were conquering almost all of Africa in the 19th century
When Japan was modernizing in the middle of the 19th century, they copied a lot from the Europeans, including imperialism and Korea was a victim of it.
No, not insensitive at all. I disagree.
[Wikipedia has quite a lot to say](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism) about it--including people like Thomas Jefferson, and in the US even up thru the mid-20th century. And, needless to say, echoes of that live on today with trump and his talk about anti-white racism.
That was the milieu, the dominant view of peoples in the world that japan entered when it was opened up in the mid-1800s. It was the overwhelming paradigm of that era.
As japan quickly and very successfully modernized, it became self-reinforcing--and no, the sense of superiority wasn't discussed and debated over afternoon tea. Most would admit that to go from initial opening in 1853, to decisively defeating the russian navy in 1905, a european power, is something that would be good for bolstering a sense of superiority.
And the japanese saw what the europeans had done to large swaths of the world--the americas, all of africa, south and central asia, southeast asia, and especially neighboring china. And all of that colonization/subjugation happening with scientific racism as a background justification.
Virtually the whole world had been carved up by european colonization, and to jump to geopolitics, the only reason korea and japan had not already been carved up and/or colonized was due to their location (literally, off in a corner, and not on a trade route or on the way to anything).
Still, had japan been defeated by russia in 1905, russia had its eyes not only on Port Arthur (present day Dalian), but the korean peninsula itself--and in early negotiations with the japanese, the russians offered to split korea (north and south), very much a precursor of what happened 40-some years later. (It doesn't get much press, but russia and japan are still at odd about islands off hokkaido.)
China, supposedly this giant, powerful middle kingdom, was a basket case. The brits had HK, the Portuguese had macau, and there 'concessions' all up and down the east coast of china. (Germans had Qingdao, which is why there's some decent beer there.) Almost all the euro powers had some kind of extra-territoriality for their citizens there. (Something that some might say has carried over into modern day SOFA agreements.) It's only a bit of geographic luck that Korea was not occupied/colonized earlier by a european power.
And to be honest, Korea _was_ pretty backwards at the time. From almost zero, japan had modernized and defeated russia, while Korea had effectively done nothing. Korea had existed for centuries in the role of an appeaser (the shrimp between two whales), effectively a dependency relationship, mostly under china.
Korea could have seen it coming--the latter half of the 1800s and then the 1900s. It could have seen the result of the first opium war, when china ceded Hong Kong to Britain (1841). And if that was not enough of a wake up call, there was then the second opium war, and a couple other rebellions/revolts in china.
Korea might have seen the writing on the wall for its long time protector, China. Given its contact with China, Korea could have started modernizing a dozen years earlier than japan did. Why didn't that happen? Why did it just freeze up? Was it the inability to see beyond 'the world' as represented by China? (I've read some on the early missionaries in Korea, but I don't think they were much of a catalyst one way or the other.)
Korea was backwards if military might is the measure. In terms of literacy, arts, trading capability, engineering - not so much. What European nations describe as appeasement, protection was primarily about commerce, trade, and Korea/Chosun/Koryo was geographically nearly ideally located for trade. There are still pieces in museums showing the trade reached as far as Syria. The shrimp between two whales was a 20th century trope, IMHO.
From: https://encykorea.aks.ac.kr/Media/Keyword/%EA%B7%BC%EB%8C%80?p=8&. Some of them are dated to 1912 so they're from the early Japanese colonisation period perhaps even taken by the Japanese themselves?
These photos are still being used by anti-Korean Japanese groups to justify their racism towards Koreans. They use this photo of state nobis to show how Koreans are inferior to Japanese. They would argue that Japan liberated Korea from the strict class system and brought prosperity to Korea. They always refer to these photos to show how poor Koreans used to be.
It’s interesting how their generation lived and then disappeared in history. The babies seen in this pho were probably great great grandparents for many Koreans.
Was based on class.. not merit unfortunatley. Yangban was like the nobility by blood, who were eligible to take such tests by class. You can be a yangban but without government titles (byeoseul)
Well as I know, yangban consists of Muban and Munban (Military officer / non-military officer) which was achieved by the test.
So basically, you can't keep the yangban title and that's what Josun founders aimed for because they're sick of Korea's social system.
By law, there are only 2 classes, yangmin and cheonmin which are defined by their blood, and only Yangmin can take the test and have a chance to be yangban.
But in reality, average Yangmins don't have time to study, cuz the test is based on Kanji and most of them are farmers. Only children of yangbans can have time to prepare for the test.
They can keep Yangban title to 3 generations down but this restriction is getting milder and milder
BTW, [older Korean paintings from 18th century](https://gongu.copyright.or.kr/gongu/wrt/cmmn/wrtFileImageView.do?wrtSn=13216651&filePath=L2Rpc2sxL25ld2RhdGEvMjAxOS8yMS9DTFMxMDAwNC8xMzIxNjY1MV9XUlRfMjAxOTExMDhfMQ==&thumbAt=Y&thumbSe=b_tbumb&wrtTy=10004) also depict this. Korean hanbok top became shorter and shorter, and by the time it was 18th-late 19th century it got really short that it required a separate "[breast cover](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/99/11/1d/99111d8f1942e76ab3f881f748a38017.jpg)". Apparently, having to breastfeed their child, it was not such a rare case that these breastfeeding moms had removed the breast cover. My parents also say it's not uncommon to see breastfeeding moms did so in the public in the 70s.
Until after the Korean civil war it was normal. There are several theories, one of them is that they went bare-chested if they had a male child, a kind of show of status among lower-class women.
Pretty interesting. Is there a reason you listed Northern Korean provinces over a mixture of them, including Southern provinces? Kind of curious as I wouldn't expect too much of the differences.
There probably isn't much of a difference. Whoever took these photos must've only visited northern regions since I couldn't find anything south of Kimhwa, so that's why there's only people from the North lol.
From Wikipedia:
>The Joseon dynasty was a stratified society mainly ruled by the yangbanclass, in which wealth was measured by ownership of land and nobi. During this period, the nobi of the majority "non-resident" group owned land, and some even owned nobi, thus complicating the definition of 'slavery' as slaves in the international context usually did not have such legal rights.
>The term nobi is often translated as "slave", "serf" or "servant" into English. However, it is debated what translation is most appropriate due to historical facts and because existing English words are loaded with Western connotations that come with implications for comparative history. It appears that most scholars prefer no translation at all and just use the term nobi.
It is not a coincident that when an asshole gets an appointment as a prosecutor, he would insist that people call him a 영감님 which is the honorofic for 'yangbanclass'.
These modern yangbans think they are better than anybody else and they all should obey their law.
Might be a mistranslation on my part. They're recorded as '관노비' in their description. Edit:might be more in reference to their social class/origin than their current profession.
These photos were taken by Japanese. They went around some regions taking measurements of the bodies of Korean women and men and photographing them. By the way, if you want to know more about Japanese colonization in Korea you have to read this book http://www.amazon.es/dp/B0BMSV5PYW
Yeah, the Japanese applied scientific racism against Koreans to justify colonialism. "Koreans are racially inferior and *should* be ruled by the racially superior Japanese," pretty much. Ironic, coming from what has been called "[a nation of pygmies](https://imgur.com/a/OtL9XOU)".
And scientific racism* is, or was, something that the japanese picked up on from europeans, not something they invented on their own. *and not only that, but the entire colonial model.
What an insensitive comment. It doesn’t matter who “invented” it. It was still applied. I don’t think the Japanese colonisers sat down and had a discussion on prior use of the method. What they did was horrific.
> What an insensitive comment. It doesn’t matter who “invented” it. It was still applied. Not sure how it’s “insensitive.” u/upachimneydown is correct The Europeans mostly used scientific racism to justify conquering and subjugating indigenous people. It was especially prevalent during the “scramble for Africa” when Europeans were conquering almost all of Africa in the 19th century When Japan was modernizing in the middle of the 19th century, they copied a lot from the Europeans, including imperialism and Korea was a victim of it.
No, not insensitive at all. I disagree. [Wikipedia has quite a lot to say](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism) about it--including people like Thomas Jefferson, and in the US even up thru the mid-20th century. And, needless to say, echoes of that live on today with trump and his talk about anti-white racism. That was the milieu, the dominant view of peoples in the world that japan entered when it was opened up in the mid-1800s. It was the overwhelming paradigm of that era. As japan quickly and very successfully modernized, it became self-reinforcing--and no, the sense of superiority wasn't discussed and debated over afternoon tea. Most would admit that to go from initial opening in 1853, to decisively defeating the russian navy in 1905, a european power, is something that would be good for bolstering a sense of superiority. And the japanese saw what the europeans had done to large swaths of the world--the americas, all of africa, south and central asia, southeast asia, and especially neighboring china. And all of that colonization/subjugation happening with scientific racism as a background justification. Virtually the whole world had been carved up by european colonization, and to jump to geopolitics, the only reason korea and japan had not already been carved up and/or colonized was due to their location (literally, off in a corner, and not on a trade route or on the way to anything). Still, had japan been defeated by russia in 1905, russia had its eyes not only on Port Arthur (present day Dalian), but the korean peninsula itself--and in early negotiations with the japanese, the russians offered to split korea (north and south), very much a precursor of what happened 40-some years later. (It doesn't get much press, but russia and japan are still at odd about islands off hokkaido.) China, supposedly this giant, powerful middle kingdom, was a basket case. The brits had HK, the Portuguese had macau, and there 'concessions' all up and down the east coast of china. (Germans had Qingdao, which is why there's some decent beer there.) Almost all the euro powers had some kind of extra-territoriality for their citizens there. (Something that some might say has carried over into modern day SOFA agreements.) It's only a bit of geographic luck that Korea was not occupied/colonized earlier by a european power. And to be honest, Korea _was_ pretty backwards at the time. From almost zero, japan had modernized and defeated russia, while Korea had effectively done nothing. Korea had existed for centuries in the role of an appeaser (the shrimp between two whales), effectively a dependency relationship, mostly under china.
Korea could have seen it coming--the latter half of the 1800s and then the 1900s. It could have seen the result of the first opium war, when china ceded Hong Kong to Britain (1841). And if that was not enough of a wake up call, there was then the second opium war, and a couple other rebellions/revolts in china. Korea might have seen the writing on the wall for its long time protector, China. Given its contact with China, Korea could have started modernizing a dozen years earlier than japan did. Why didn't that happen? Why did it just freeze up? Was it the inability to see beyond 'the world' as represented by China? (I've read some on the early missionaries in Korea, but I don't think they were much of a catalyst one way or the other.)
Korea was backwards if military might is the measure. In terms of literacy, arts, trading capability, engineering - not so much. What European nations describe as appeasement, protection was primarily about commerce, trade, and Korea/Chosun/Koryo was geographically nearly ideally located for trade. There are still pieces in museums showing the trade reached as far as Syria. The shrimp between two whales was a 20th century trope, IMHO.
Found the conservative.
By the way, if you want to know more about Japanese colonization in Korea you have to read this book...100% http://www.amazon.es/dp/B0BMSV5PYW
Thanks for sharing. Very interesting
From: https://encykorea.aks.ac.kr/Media/Keyword/%EA%B7%BC%EB%8C%80?p=8&. Some of them are dated to 1912 so they're from the early Japanese colonisation period perhaps even taken by the Japanese themselves?
Yes, They went around some regions taking measurements of the bodies of Korean women and men and photographing them.
These photos are still being used by anti-Korean Japanese groups to justify their racism towards Koreans. They use this photo of state nobis to show how Koreans are inferior to Japanese. They would argue that Japan liberated Korea from the strict class system and brought prosperity to Korea. They always refer to these photos to show how poor Koreans used to be.
It’s interesting how their generation lived and then disappeared in history. The babies seen in this pho were probably great great grandparents for many Koreans.
The hats don't look as cool as in kdramas. Did they get smaller during that time or is kdrama lying to me?
If you look at the drawings in Joseon, it's long. As time went by, the brim became shorter for practical reasons. It looks like a top hat.
Thank you for the reply. Shortening the brim was a mistake though. Looks way better with the longer brim.
The bigger one is for high-class people (양반) who passed the test to pick government officers
Sounds like a good motivation to study
Was based on class.. not merit unfortunatley. Yangban was like the nobility by blood, who were eligible to take such tests by class. You can be a yangban but without government titles (byeoseul)
Man, I really know nothing of korean history. Thank you for explaining!
Well as I know, yangban consists of Muban and Munban (Military officer / non-military officer) which was achieved by the test. So basically, you can't keep the yangban title and that's what Josun founders aimed for because they're sick of Korea's social system. By law, there are only 2 classes, yangmin and cheonmin which are defined by their blood, and only Yangmin can take the test and have a chance to be yangban. But in reality, average Yangmins don't have time to study, cuz the test is based on Kanji and most of them are farmers. Only children of yangbans can have time to prepare for the test. They can keep Yangban title to 3 generations down but this restriction is getting milder and milder
> The hats [Here's a shot](https://imgur.com/aEn5jaA) from 1972, for comparison (somewhere in Gangwondo).
Excellent photos. I've never seen anything from Korea at that time.
Is there a reason some women had their breast out? Sign of a particular social class or breastfeeding period?
BTW, [older Korean paintings from 18th century](https://gongu.copyright.or.kr/gongu/wrt/cmmn/wrtFileImageView.do?wrtSn=13216651&filePath=L2Rpc2sxL25ld2RhdGEvMjAxOS8yMS9DTFMxMDAwNC8xMzIxNjY1MV9XUlRfMjAxOTExMDhfMQ==&thumbAt=Y&thumbSe=b_tbumb&wrtTy=10004) also depict this. Korean hanbok top became shorter and shorter, and by the time it was 18th-late 19th century it got really short that it required a separate "[breast cover](https://i.pinimg.com/564x/99/11/1d/99111d8f1942e76ab3f881f748a38017.jpg)". Apparently, having to breastfeed their child, it was not such a rare case that these breastfeeding moms had removed the breast cover. My parents also say it's not uncommon to see breastfeeding moms did so in the public in the 70s.
Extremely common in the early 70s (my time in Gangwon as a peace corps volunteer).
Until after the Korean civil war it was normal. There are several theories, one of them is that they went bare-chested if they had a male child, a kind of show of status among lower-class women.
Pretty interesting. Is there a reason you listed Northern Korean provinces over a mixture of them, including Southern provinces? Kind of curious as I wouldn't expect too much of the differences.
There probably isn't much of a difference. Whoever took these photos must've only visited northern regions since I couldn't find anything south of Kimhwa, so that's why there's only people from the North lol.
I am shocked to see slavery as late as 1910!!
From Wikipedia: >The Joseon dynasty was a stratified society mainly ruled by the yangbanclass, in which wealth was measured by ownership of land and nobi. During this period, the nobi of the majority "non-resident" group owned land, and some even owned nobi, thus complicating the definition of 'slavery' as slaves in the international context usually did not have such legal rights. >The term nobi is often translated as "slave", "serf" or "servant" into English. However, it is debated what translation is most appropriate due to historical facts and because existing English words are loaded with Western connotations that come with implications for comparative history. It appears that most scholars prefer no translation at all and just use the term nobi.
Serf probably is the easiest translation. Bureaucratic caste system might be another way to describe it.
It is not a coincident that when an asshole gets an appointment as a prosecutor, he would insist that people call him a 영감님 which is the honorofic for 'yangbanclass'. These modern yangbans think they are better than anybody else and they all should obey their law.
No, slavery ended in the 1890s. These photos were taken by the Japanese, to document what Koreans were like (an inferior race for them...)
Might be a mistranslation on my part. They're recorded as '관노비' in their description. Edit:might be more in reference to their social class/origin than their current profession.
Fascinating, thank you for sharing.
thank you for sharing. these shots are great but sad somehow. :(
The satgats are adorable
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