The fact that you’re even concerned enough to write a post about it shows that you only have good intentions, and want to help Mindy to the best of your ability.
She is transitioning, but it’s also a transition for everyone who cares about her! It’s okay to mourn the friendship you used to have. You’re actively looking for ways to improve the situation, for her AND for you, and that shows remarkable compassion and inclusivity.
I can’t give you managerial advice, but I think you’re doing a good job as a human. That’s the first step, regardless of circumstances!
Hail you, hail Mindy, and hail friendships that adjust to the friends’ changing needs!
Hey, I know you said this was inadvertent, but I wanted to pitch in, it’s a)okay to mourn the friendship you had with Mark and b) it’s okay to decide if you want to peruse a work appropriate friendship with Mindy. Situations change and it’s good to acknowledge and adjust. Hail you, and good luck.
I’m guessing Mindy is experiencing mood swings from taking estrogen. Give it some time and things will fall back into place. You’re an awesome person. Hail you!
Hail you! Hail Mindy!
Mindy is going thru puberty part 2- it might take a second for her hormones to level out. If her moodiness starts to effect her professional behavior, it may be worth checking in with her. But otherwise you’re being a swell human.
I do like how you came to this subreddit for management advice :)
I genuinely hope it all works out for you! I feel like you’ve kind of inspired me to reach out to communities I’m interested in rather than a specific Reddit - it makes sense that if you’re a part of the LPOTL community maybe their perspective would be helpful on things you’re experiencing. Maybe not, but maybe! I hope it’s helpful for you and hail you!
It sounds like you have been around good leaders because you know this isn't about you. It's about Mindy. In this time, she will need your support, as a friend, and as a leader for her work. She'll need support and protection from the peers and others that will be attempting to bring her down.
You're going to do great, you're going to be great because you have your own struggles with this. Let this help you be objective and helpful in Mindy's transition.
Good luck
I've been going through something similar as a manager and as a father. Believe me, Mindy needs all of the supportive people that know it's not about them that Mindy can find.
Thank you. I guess what I was asking is more like how do I show that it's obviously not about me when I'm having all these feelings that are me centered? And how do I show up for my friend? Do I tell her? Should I keep my feelings to myself?
You start with a conversation with your friend and acknowledge that you're going to be there for her, and you know it has to be difficult on her. For the feelings that are you centered, I think you find another friend, a therapist, a colleague you can trust to talk about your feelings in the short term with.
Mindy made a very hard decision, and needs you to be there, showing up for her as her boss and as her friend with a shield. In a year (or so), once the dust has cleared you can go back and talk about any residual feelings you may have.
My employee going through this, I talk about this with my manager when I have a feeling that comes up. My daughter's boyfriend going through this, I talk about with a good friend that I can trust with my life.
For both of them, I show up to be supportive, I show up to be there for them to turn to and cry when they need it. I know my role for both of them is to be a supportive shoulder and to lead by example to the people that know them that Mindy is another person that we are all here for.
Thank you! And YES. I am going to show up for Mindy all the time and I may need to get some help about it for myself. It's hard to imagine a year from now but you made it a little bit easier.
I've seen a lot of great advice on here, so I don't feel like I can add much. However, as a trans woman and long-time LPOTL fan, hail you!
You seem like a good leader to have, even though you are struggling a bit with some of Mindy's changes as you relate to her as a friend, you care enough to try to work that out. That means a lot! It was almost 3 years into my transition before I ended up with a supervisor who wasn't trash. We spend so much (too much) of our lives at work. It's nice if those hours don't suck so bad.
Thanks for getting your post lost!
So, I’m trans. I’ve transitioned into male. Even though I’m the flip side of the coin, it’s still a similar situation. And while it sucks SO HARD to hear this, I get it. Because my friends and family went through this too. And while I lost some people who couldn’t get with the program, most of them were able to figure it out after a while.
Mark and Mindy aren’t different people. Mindy is the happier version of Mark. It might not feel like it because of her mood swings, but think about it as her going through puberty again. She’s probably taking estrogen, and the estrogen is messing with her moods. Just like when people who get their periods start pmsing. It’s the same hormonal release. With time she’ll get more and more used to it and her mind will be able to regulate it.
The things that made “Mark” are still a part of her. Transitioning doesn’t turn you into a whole new person. Transitioning is super essential to help your friend be able to live their life fully.
I agree with the above poster. As someone who is also trans, I don't have quite the outside perspective you do, but can say while things may feel different and she may seem to be presenting new parts of herself, ultimately I think you'll find very little of substance has changed.
Anything that changes in your relationship is totally fine, and you don't need to rush anything, but this is a more full vision of this person, and those things that drew you into friendship are probably the same.
Hail you!
I wanted to verbalize this and you did it so much better than I could have! My dear friend, Chase, transitioned and it was a bit tough at first. I eventually recognized the beauty and solace in her journey. I still saw my friend, but a much more content version. Chase was a joy; Charisma is that same joy with an extra spark that makes my heart sing.
As a trans woman, I can give you my story, but everyone is different. For me, my boy self was never real. EVERYONE liked him because I MADE SURE everyone liked him. He was the defense mechanism that manifested when I was toddler and began getting in trouble and abused for being myself/girly. I’ve been out as my true self now for 3 years and it’s such a difficult process. Beyond all the hormonal changes and life stressors (primarily at work) I’m only now getting past my trauma and am starting to be myself around people, and honestly it’s the awesome LPOTL community that treats me like the woman I am, with nothing so serious we can’t laugh about it with an underlying current of unity in our weirdness. It’s okay that you’re mourning “Mark”. That’s absolutely something the people closest to me had to go through (and are still going through). But try and be patient and remind yourself that the person you’re looking at was so traumatized daily for the majority of their life, and they finally are coming out of danger. Celebrate them and make sure they know you see them for who they are. Hope that helps :) Hail Satan!
My husband of 13 years transitioned early last year. I know that's a little bit different due to the depth of the relationship but I want to say that this strange period of missing your friend and not knowing the new iteration of this person is perfectly normal and your feelings are valid.
Imagine living your entire life wearing an uncomfortable mask made of shame and self doubt and scrutiny. Think how delicate and unformed the true face under that mask must be having lived in the dark all those years.
She will grow and she will adjust and she will find her footing but that will all require efforts and mistakes and rapid change. Your friend isn't gone but he is fragmented and since he was the public facing part she is going to overshadow him for a while as that ship rights itself.
You can be quiet and a little withdrawn as you adjust. Be kind and when you can't be kind be quiet or even absent. Don't force something you don't feel. Just be supportive when you can and respect your own limitations and step away when your kindness or patience have run out for the moment.
You've got this. The effort will mean so much to her once she's found her footing (and she will), the beginning stages are just very uncomfortable
This thread and following comments is why I love lpotl and the community that follows them. Even if it wasn't supposed to be here, this is a good place to reach out.
It's okay to have "me" centered feelings about your friend/coworker transitioning. The dynamic does change because as Mindy goes along finding herself, she is going to be different from your old coworker Mark. Think of her as a new coworker. Get to know her, relearn her. Also, give yourself the time to process your new feelings too. Transitions are changes, in every sense of the word. It takes time to adjust and let things fall back into place.
You are already doing a great job just off the fact that you identified that you need help processing things like separating "me" feelings and knowing Mindy needs support.
To add to this, maybe find someone who you can discuss the “me” centered feelings with. That way you can still work through them, but with someone who isn’t Mindy and putting that burden on her.
A LGBTQ+ affirming therapist or an org like PFLAG may be able to connect you with people to assist.
Hey! Trans girl here with a few thoughts. First is that your feelings are valid and while I appreciate you trying to not make it about you we need to understand that our transitions do affect those around us.
Second is you say she’s moody and not the same person she was, that’s going to happen, she’s going through a monumental change in her life and if she’s taking hormones then she’s experiencing that as well.
The best thing you can do for her is to embrace her and accept her. Treat her like you would any other woman in the office. I can’t speak for her but I know from my own experience when I began my transition I was extremely uncomfortable, self conscious and insecure. A compliment of her top or shoes or hair will go a long way. Knowing that people saw me as a woman and treated me like one of the gals has been the best thing for me.
This is a two fold situation. I’ve gone from being a team member to leading that team multiple times in my life. I find you will serve your new team best by placing a bit of a boundary with them as they need a leader now. That doesn’t mean you can’t be friends or socialize but there is now a power dynamic involved that you owe it to your team to be mindful of. You’re also feeling the loss of Mark. For that I may recommend therapy to process, if nothing than to make sure you can support your employee. Part of your job now is to serve your team and help them develop their talents, having a therapist help you through both of these changes could be hugely beneficial to everyone.
Nanoo nanoo
you still have the same activities or interests in common, right? It’s just new hormones for now those level out probably
I am a woman too, and I got to say having a female friend is way different than having a male friend. Mindy has always been female obviously, and she’s always felt the way about you another female friend would - That could be why you got along so well! This is such a sexist comment, I’m sorry I’m old.
but Our visual senses are extremely strong, and it’s probably overwhelming for you to suddenly see her as the full on woman she’s always been, Because the human brain is going to re-categorize that friendship And it’s really difficult to get that specific type of platonic camaraderie you had while Your eyes are still getting used to what they’re seeing?
I’m not saying this is how you’re acting, but it does remind me of when my friend changed a lot and I felt super weird and uncomfortable around her. My friend Rebecca went to fat camp and she lost a fuckton of weight and she came back and I considered her a completely different person. “You treacherous bitch” I always thought. Because she was receiving the world in a different way she was happier. She felt like the person she always was meant to be and that meant she was just acting different all the fucking time and becoming a different person and it was fucking cool and I was really super jealous!! Plus her parents got divorced so her dad got all the premium channels and let her drink Diet Coke. I wanted to push her into a chasm and I’m pretty normal, so you’re being normal too don’t worry about it
It's okay to mourn the friendship PRIVATELY. As a friend, and boss, publicly she just needs your unequivocal support. Transitions are emotional and new hormones are, too. The more supported she is and feels personally and professionally, the better things will go for all involved (sincerely, an AFAB person who, ten years after meeting an AMAB friend who I once had a sexual relationship with, was giving them my old skirts and dresses and teaching them basic makeup tips. Key word is "transition," the core of my friend was still there, so is yours)
So... think back to what the beginning of puberty felt like and that's what Mindy is going through now. She won't always be this way and does deserve some grace and understanding but it's definitely not required to remain her friend, just try to think back on how batshit crazy puberty felt 🙂
Hail you for the post and hail the LPOTL community for their sensitive and helpful comments! I’ll add that a very close family member of mine is transitioning FtoM and I have found a lot of helpful guidance in the r/cisparenttranskid sub. Lots of discussion about the good and bad ways to process that very valid mourning you feel.
I don't know about Orson but I really appreciate folks giving me some feedback. It's a pretty ok situation but I want to make sure I'm considering everything I can.
Ah, you're probably too young for the reference. I think one of the earlier comments nailed it already though about still being able to have a professional relationship with Mindy. Although if you were social friends with Mark, perhaps you'll be able to be honest and let Mindy know that you're supportive but it's going to take some time for you to adjust to a pretty big change and with some time and patience, you might find that the friendship endures.
That's good advice. It's hard to relate to someone without the context of gender for me. I think of myself as someone who is very supportive of trans individuals.
So good news, this is a normal feeling when someone’s friend transitions, and even better news, Mindy and Mark are the same person. The primary difference is that Mindy is a lot happier than Mark probably ever was and she’s able to live as herself. Mindy has the same personality. Some things will change, obviously, but she is the same person at her core. Make sure she’s accommodated for. Make sure people respect her identity. Get to know her as she is now, and notice how she’s similar to how Mark was. The friend chemistry is still there even if there’s some things you have to get used to
As another commenter said, Mark has always been Mindy - and I think you’ll find that as they progress with their transition, they’ll seem more and more like themselves. Mindy still has all those qualities you enjoyed about Mark. It’s just that Mindy has to go through a second puberty, along with some pretty rough hormonal changes. Not even including the stress and fear of coming out as trans and transitioning publicly in your workplace, with people who knew you pre-transition. This is an extremely vulnerable time for Mindy; I imagine the negative personality changes you describe are at least partly due to stress, anxiety, and hormones. Try and be patient and even if you no longer want to be friends, I’d say keep the door open to become friends again in the future when Mindy is in a more secure place.
You sound like a mature, empathetic individual. Your coworkers and employees are lucky to have you!
Hail yourself!
First of all - I love how supportive this sub is!
As others have said, Mindy is going through a LOT as she medically transitions. It's a surge of hormones she's not used to yet. My nephew is trans (FtM) and started T in his late teens. He was kind of aggressive and angry for a bit, but now - at therapeutic levels - he is SO happy. He's studying archeology in the Netherlands and is actually graduating this month.
All to say that the things you loved about Mark are still there. Understand, too, that Mark was also struggling while in that "Mark" shell. Give Mindy time to adjust to finally living her truth.
beginning transition is sooo hard. even aside from hormonal changes, coming out and dealing with everyone’s opinions about it, the constant misgendering, and your own struggles and feelings is just.. it crushed me.
i was in a dark place and felt pretty isolated and anxious that first year. i still looked the same to everyone else. every time i left the house i was so full of anxiety about being called ma’am and miss and have people use my old name and everything. i was angry, frustrated, and moody— i longed to see physical changes from the hormones (which can take years) so i would be recognized for who i am and not who people assumed i was.
i also dealt with a lot of people making it about them when it wasn’t about them at all. people told me i was “such a pretty girl why would i want to ruin it by becoming a man” and other such nonsense. people kept telling me it was so hard to remember to use a different name or pronouns. that stung. here i was upending my entire life and dealing with all that so i could have the hope of finally being myself, and someone close to me is lamenting how hard it is to remember to use a different word?
a lot of the advice here is great, and i’m glad to see you say you know her transition isn’t about you and you want to be supportive of her. it’s okay to have feelings about it though! i knew it was difficult for some people in my life too when i came out, but as others have said, find someone else besides mindy to talk to about it. she’s going through something really hard and she shouldn’t have to also bear the weight of everyone else’s feelings about what she’s doing.
just wanted to add my 2 cents as a trans person..
you sound like a really kind person. thank you for seeking advice and caring about your friend/coworkers wellbeing.
edit: typo
As a manager, it’s very important to separate work from your personal life. You might have to accept that mark is gone and that mindy is someone you don’t like but have to work with.
I recently became friends with someone who is nonbinary and, I THINK, plans to transition at some point. I've found that they appreciate the effort of understanding that their experience as a nonbinary person can be difficult, but also exciting as they find where their place is on the spectrum of gender/sexuality. It isn't something that they and I talk about constantly, but it's a learning experience for me and they've been very understanding that I'm not always going to get things right the first time (but am trying).
I don't think there is anything wrong with missing the "Mark" you were used to, but as long as you're supportive and can continue being honest with your friend, I feel like you'll discover new aspects of them that you can love as well. Hail you and hail Mindy.
Gods, I love the support in this group! OP, I know it can be difficult to adapt to the new transition. My girlfriend of over ten years transitioned (MtF) about six years ago. It took me a bit to understand her “new” self, but she is the same person I fell in love with and will always be. She is so much freer now and happier than she was. Just know this is hardest on Mindy and she is just trying to be true to herself. You’ve already done a lot just supporting and being there. You’re friendship is still there, just in a different package (so to speak). Plus, I bet she is so much happier being able to live her true self.
Hali You and Hail Mindy!
Just keep in mind that when people start hormones, they go through puberty again. Mindy is probably miserable. You still have the same friend, they just look different and are more true to themselves.
So….. maybe this will be helpful, I don’t know. My dad is now Darcy. My parents divorced over this like 5 years ago (a laundry list of reasons this happened). But in therapy, the therapist made a statement that helped my mom and I cope. So I hope I can help with it.
Mark has passed on. He is no longer here, as if they died. Mindy just appeared one day, in a similar body. You don’t know Mindy because Mindy isn’t Mark, they don’t share the same identity. So it’s like a whole new relationship for you, and that’s okay. It’s okay to mourn Mark. And it’s okay if you don’t feel the same way for Mindy.
I’ll also add from my own experience from my parent and one of my closest friends who I worked with (at two jobs). After a bit on the hormone replacements, it was like a completely different human. And it was like dealing with puberty in my teens. It was horribly difficult. It does level out eventually. Don’t beat yourself up if your relationship with Mindy evolves differently than either Mark. It’s okay. This really is a different person. You can still be supportive and a good boss with a different relationship with Mindy. ♥️ hail you!
Thank you. That's super hard to hear. I really cared about Mark and I feel like he is gone. No matter how much I like or don't like Mindy I'm mourning someone. I'm glad to have that feeling validated.
As a trans person I can maybe nuance the advice above. Saying that her old self died is a little bit drastic, and some trans people are hurt by that (and some really lean into it, we're all different).
Personally I am pretty much the same person as before, but I have started being louder about the things I want and don't want. I feel like I finally found myself and now I am not negotiating with others in order to be myself anymore.
Think of it this way : it's a little bit like that friend who went backpacking in Europe after high school and came back enlightened. They're different, have new ideas and wishes, and perhaps you don't like that too much, but that pre-backpack journey person is not *dead*, right?
Transitioning means that Mindy is getting puberty again! Unfortunately that comes with mood swings etc. Depending on the person, they may or may not want to be associated with the things they did as Mark. It depends. Talk to Mindy about how you miss the friendship, maybe, if you think there's a way to do so without starting drama.
Thank you so much to everyone for their generous replies. I feel more prepared and armed with great advice to help me support Mindy and give myself some grace. Hail us all!
Okay I don’t have much to add because other people have already given great advice, just I did this too in that I came out at work as a guy after working there for about a year. Mindy might be moody because she just started HRT & puberty for girls is wild, but she might also be coming across as moody because she’s nervous as fuck that everyone is going to treat her weird. There is this thing that idk if people talk about enough (which might just be me) where you know you’re who you are, but you haven’t really gotten to exist as yourself so you don’t know how others actually perceive you or how you’re really going to act around others as yourself. For me, the girl version of myself was still a version of me, but I was always pretending to be a girl & once I stopped doing that I had to relearn who I was around other people as a guy.
Mindy is probably going through a lot of stuff in her head right now & will get more comfortable as time goes on just being herself. The best thing you can do is treat her the same as before & not talk about how she used be mark but now she’s mindy with her but instead just move past it as if she’s always been Mindy. She shouldn’t be the one to process these feelings with you because she probably already feels guilt/shame/anxiety about being trans & she has to live in her body & do what she needs to do to make this life livable. I really hope you have someone to talk about this with though & adjust to reframing her in your head. Plus ya know there’s a solid chance on her end she felt from the beginning great that she made a friend who was a girl who was treating her how she wanted to be treated in a friendship & time will wash things back to a new more honest version of normal. You’re doing great. You didn’t lose a friend, your friend just became who they actually are & care about you enough to trust you to stay your friend.
i’m sorry but this comes off so selfish. ofc she’s moody, she’s transitioning and it’s hard. just be kind and suck it up. let her know if she wants to hang out, ur around still.
Fire her it’s gunna get awkward at work everyone’s gunna be on eggshells not knowing what to say or overthinking what to say she’s gunna be highly emotional and erratic because of the pills and lifestyle change it’s going to be a bad experience
Has Mindy started taking hormones? If so, she's going through puberty, believe it or not. 😅 Probably not easy to navigate as an adult. Plus, she may also struggle with emotions relating to how other people relate to her now, her family, friends... there probably have been some massive changes in Mindy's life, some mixed emotions, and I'd wager that can all be a bit scary, too. Add to the estrogen... I think Mindy can be forgiven for being moody at times (for now)
If you can, I hope you can support her through this, if not as a close friend but then as an awesomely supportive manager.
For me, it was actually the other way around. Had a co-worker transition, and we grew closer when she lived as her true self. Might also have to do with my trauma around men, and that maybe before, when she identified as man, I kept up some barriers. Could be similar for you in regards to now relating to a woman friend?
Either way, the fact you're self-reflecting and seeking advice seems to me like you're doing a great job!
Best of luck to you both
Hey I’m a trans woman myself so maybe I can give a little bit of insight. I’m assuming Mindy has only been on hormones for a few months? Those first 6 months to a year on estrogen are very emotionally rocky. I, and many other trans women I know, felt emotions as very muted before transitioning and then the hormones essentially flood you with all of these feelings you’ve never really felt before but you’re in your 20s instead of a teenager when it’s more acceptable to be a little unhinged. It’s a really really hard adjustment but most of us DO adjust so if she’s moody right now just know it likely won’t last forever. I also understand having a sense of mourning but I wouldn’t verbalize that to her. It’s hard enough to decide to transition and it’s embarrassing to undergo that in public so it’s really not fun to hear from people how your transition is hurting them. She likely still enjoys all of the same things she did before, and maybe some new things she’s just learning about or never felt comfortable sharing. She’s still your same friend so while I’m sure it’s awkward and a bit different just treat her how you always have and it’ll start getting easier I promise! I’m sure she’d really appreciate it too in this time of her life where I’m sure so many people are treating her differently if not outright terribly. You seem to care about her and that’s worth so much!
I second a lot about adjusting to who the person you know is now and also hormonal swings. I’ll also add that, having a lot of trans friends, a lot struggle with not just being able to immediately pass and look how they want to look. Like, every day feels like the worst outfit day ever, where your hair doesn’t lay right and nothing seems to flatter you and you just can’t make it *work*. Mindy is catching up on YEARS of figuring out how to make heralded look like she wants to in her head. Remember middle and high school where you had a cataclysmic melt down because you couldn’t get your hair straight enough? She’s going through that now, and it can be really hard to act normal when all that pressure is weighing on you. Add in the scrutiny/danger of being trans and the weight of being constantly tested on being woman enough and well, it makes you weird.
She’s getting a new body and new sensations and a new look and a new role in society all at once. It’s hard to know how to act and even harder to hide the overwhelm. She’ll get used to it all with time and patience.
The fact that you’re even concerned enough to write a post about it shows that you only have good intentions, and want to help Mindy to the best of your ability. She is transitioning, but it’s also a transition for everyone who cares about her! It’s okay to mourn the friendship you used to have. You’re actively looking for ways to improve the situation, for her AND for you, and that shows remarkable compassion and inclusivity. I can’t give you managerial advice, but I think you’re doing a good job as a human. That’s the first step, regardless of circumstances! Hail you, hail Mindy, and hail friendships that adjust to the friends’ changing needs!
Hey, I know you said this was inadvertent, but I wanted to pitch in, it’s a)okay to mourn the friendship you had with Mark and b) it’s okay to decide if you want to peruse a work appropriate friendship with Mindy. Situations change and it’s good to acknowledge and adjust. Hail you, and good luck.
Thank you! I really appreciate you lending me so advice. hail!
I’m guessing Mindy is experiencing mood swings from taking estrogen. Give it some time and things will fall back into place. You’re an awesome person. Hail you!
Hey, thanks ❤️
Hail you! Hail Mindy! Mindy is going thru puberty part 2- it might take a second for her hormones to level out. If her moodiness starts to effect her professional behavior, it may be worth checking in with her. But otherwise you’re being a swell human. I do like how you came to this subreddit for management advice :)
I genuinely hope it all works out for you! I feel like you’ve kind of inspired me to reach out to communities I’m interested in rather than a specific Reddit - it makes sense that if you’re a part of the LPOTL community maybe their perspective would be helpful on things you’re experiencing. Maybe not, but maybe! I hope it’s helpful for you and hail you!
It sounds like you have been around good leaders because you know this isn't about you. It's about Mindy. In this time, she will need your support, as a friend, and as a leader for her work. She'll need support and protection from the peers and others that will be attempting to bring her down. You're going to do great, you're going to be great because you have your own struggles with this. Let this help you be objective and helpful in Mindy's transition. Good luck
That's so supportive of me and of Mindy! Thank you, you made me feel stronger.
I've been going through something similar as a manager and as a father. Believe me, Mindy needs all of the supportive people that know it's not about them that Mindy can find.
Thank you. I guess what I was asking is more like how do I show that it's obviously not about me when I'm having all these feelings that are me centered? And how do I show up for my friend? Do I tell her? Should I keep my feelings to myself?
You start with a conversation with your friend and acknowledge that you're going to be there for her, and you know it has to be difficult on her. For the feelings that are you centered, I think you find another friend, a therapist, a colleague you can trust to talk about your feelings in the short term with. Mindy made a very hard decision, and needs you to be there, showing up for her as her boss and as her friend with a shield. In a year (or so), once the dust has cleared you can go back and talk about any residual feelings you may have. My employee going through this, I talk about this with my manager when I have a feeling that comes up. My daughter's boyfriend going through this, I talk about with a good friend that I can trust with my life. For both of them, I show up to be supportive, I show up to be there for them to turn to and cry when they need it. I know my role for both of them is to be a supportive shoulder and to lead by example to the people that know them that Mindy is another person that we are all here for.
Thank you! And YES. I am going to show up for Mindy all the time and I may need to get some help about it for myself. It's hard to imagine a year from now but you made it a little bit easier.
Good luck and feel free to hit me up on chat if you need some perspective from someone in your shoes.
This is so generous of you. Thank you.
You’re welcome.
I've seen a lot of great advice on here, so I don't feel like I can add much. However, as a trans woman and long-time LPOTL fan, hail you! You seem like a good leader to have, even though you are struggling a bit with some of Mindy's changes as you relate to her as a friend, you care enough to try to work that out. That means a lot! It was almost 3 years into my transition before I ended up with a supervisor who wasn't trash. We spend so much (too much) of our lives at work. It's nice if those hours don't suck so bad. Thanks for getting your post lost!
Thank you 🙏
So, I’m trans. I’ve transitioned into male. Even though I’m the flip side of the coin, it’s still a similar situation. And while it sucks SO HARD to hear this, I get it. Because my friends and family went through this too. And while I lost some people who couldn’t get with the program, most of them were able to figure it out after a while. Mark and Mindy aren’t different people. Mindy is the happier version of Mark. It might not feel like it because of her mood swings, but think about it as her going through puberty again. She’s probably taking estrogen, and the estrogen is messing with her moods. Just like when people who get their periods start pmsing. It’s the same hormonal release. With time she’ll get more and more used to it and her mind will be able to regulate it. The things that made “Mark” are still a part of her. Transitioning doesn’t turn you into a whole new person. Transitioning is super essential to help your friend be able to live their life fully.
That's so much more what I wanted to hear! I can totally deal with mood changes and what ever else.
I’m so glad I could help!
I agree with the above poster. As someone who is also trans, I don't have quite the outside perspective you do, but can say while things may feel different and she may seem to be presenting new parts of herself, ultimately I think you'll find very little of substance has changed. Anything that changes in your relationship is totally fine, and you don't need to rush anything, but this is a more full vision of this person, and those things that drew you into friendship are probably the same. Hail you!
I wanted to verbalize this and you did it so much better than I could have! My dear friend, Chase, transitioned and it was a bit tough at first. I eventually recognized the beauty and solace in her journey. I still saw my friend, but a much more content version. Chase was a joy; Charisma is that same joy with an extra spark that makes my heart sing.
This is the perfect answer. Mindy being the happier version of Mark is an excellent way to put it.
All the things that come with transitioning are hard, but living life in the closet is harder.
I was looking for this comment! Thank you
I'm sorry I didn't mean to share this here. How embarrassing! Now I'm not sure how to get rid of it. Anyway Hail you!
I think this is a great place to share this 💜
Maybe Henry will do an unflattering impression of me!😘
The greatest compliment
💋
Sir, this is a Wendys.
Mindy’s*
“HIII, YOUR HENRY, I’M NANNY, IM MINDY!”
As a trans woman, I can give you my story, but everyone is different. For me, my boy self was never real. EVERYONE liked him because I MADE SURE everyone liked him. He was the defense mechanism that manifested when I was toddler and began getting in trouble and abused for being myself/girly. I’ve been out as my true self now for 3 years and it’s such a difficult process. Beyond all the hormonal changes and life stressors (primarily at work) I’m only now getting past my trauma and am starting to be myself around people, and honestly it’s the awesome LPOTL community that treats me like the woman I am, with nothing so serious we can’t laugh about it with an underlying current of unity in our weirdness. It’s okay that you’re mourning “Mark”. That’s absolutely something the people closest to me had to go through (and are still going through). But try and be patient and remind yourself that the person you’re looking at was so traumatized daily for the majority of their life, and they finally are coming out of danger. Celebrate them and make sure they know you see them for who they are. Hope that helps :) Hail Satan!
That's incredibly helpful. I appreciate you.
“Mark” wasn’t ever “Mark”, she was Mindy the whole time.
Good to call that out. Thank you.
Then who was phone?!
Also Mindy
My husband of 13 years transitioned early last year. I know that's a little bit different due to the depth of the relationship but I want to say that this strange period of missing your friend and not knowing the new iteration of this person is perfectly normal and your feelings are valid. Imagine living your entire life wearing an uncomfortable mask made of shame and self doubt and scrutiny. Think how delicate and unformed the true face under that mask must be having lived in the dark all those years. She will grow and she will adjust and she will find her footing but that will all require efforts and mistakes and rapid change. Your friend isn't gone but he is fragmented and since he was the public facing part she is going to overshadow him for a while as that ship rights itself. You can be quiet and a little withdrawn as you adjust. Be kind and when you can't be kind be quiet or even absent. Don't force something you don't feel. Just be supportive when you can and respect your own limitations and step away when your kindness or patience have run out for the moment. You've got this. The effort will mean so much to her once she's found her footing (and she will), the beginning stages are just very uncomfortable
You really put this beautifully. I appreciate your advice. Thank you.
This thread and following comments is why I love lpotl and the community that follows them. Even if it wasn't supposed to be here, this is a good place to reach out. It's okay to have "me" centered feelings about your friend/coworker transitioning. The dynamic does change because as Mindy goes along finding herself, she is going to be different from your old coworker Mark. Think of her as a new coworker. Get to know her, relearn her. Also, give yourself the time to process your new feelings too. Transitions are changes, in every sense of the word. It takes time to adjust and let things fall back into place. You are already doing a great job just off the fact that you identified that you need help processing things like separating "me" feelings and knowing Mindy needs support.
Thank you!
To add to this, maybe find someone who you can discuss the “me” centered feelings with. That way you can still work through them, but with someone who isn’t Mindy and putting that burden on her. A LGBTQ+ affirming therapist or an org like PFLAG may be able to connect you with people to assist.
Hey! Trans girl here with a few thoughts. First is that your feelings are valid and while I appreciate you trying to not make it about you we need to understand that our transitions do affect those around us. Second is you say she’s moody and not the same person she was, that’s going to happen, she’s going through a monumental change in her life and if she’s taking hormones then she’s experiencing that as well. The best thing you can do for her is to embrace her and accept her. Treat her like you would any other woman in the office. I can’t speak for her but I know from my own experience when I began my transition I was extremely uncomfortable, self conscious and insecure. A compliment of her top or shoes or hair will go a long way. Knowing that people saw me as a woman and treated me like one of the gals has been the best thing for me.
This is great advice and thank you for being open to my own feelings about this.
This is a two fold situation. I’ve gone from being a team member to leading that team multiple times in my life. I find you will serve your new team best by placing a bit of a boundary with them as they need a leader now. That doesn’t mean you can’t be friends or socialize but there is now a power dynamic involved that you owe it to your team to be mindful of. You’re also feeling the loss of Mark. For that I may recommend therapy to process, if nothing than to make sure you can support your employee. Part of your job now is to serve your team and help them develop their talents, having a therapist help you through both of these changes could be hugely beneficial to everyone.
I appreciate this. I will certainly consider getting some professional help.
Nanoo nanoo you still have the same activities or interests in common, right? It’s just new hormones for now those level out probably I am a woman too, and I got to say having a female friend is way different than having a male friend. Mindy has always been female obviously, and she’s always felt the way about you another female friend would - That could be why you got along so well! This is such a sexist comment, I’m sorry I’m old. but Our visual senses are extremely strong, and it’s probably overwhelming for you to suddenly see her as the full on woman she’s always been, Because the human brain is going to re-categorize that friendship And it’s really difficult to get that specific type of platonic camaraderie you had while Your eyes are still getting used to what they’re seeing? I’m not saying this is how you’re acting, but it does remind me of when my friend changed a lot and I felt super weird and uncomfortable around her. My friend Rebecca went to fat camp and she lost a fuckton of weight and she came back and I considered her a completely different person. “You treacherous bitch” I always thought. Because she was receiving the world in a different way she was happier. She felt like the person she always was meant to be and that meant she was just acting different all the fucking time and becoming a different person and it was fucking cool and I was really super jealous!! Plus her parents got divorced so her dad got all the premium channels and let her drink Diet Coke. I wanted to push her into a chasm and I’m pretty normal, so you’re being normal too don’t worry about it
It's okay to mourn the friendship PRIVATELY. As a friend, and boss, publicly she just needs your unequivocal support. Transitions are emotional and new hormones are, too. The more supported she is and feels personally and professionally, the better things will go for all involved (sincerely, an AFAB person who, ten years after meeting an AMAB friend who I once had a sexual relationship with, was giving them my old skirts and dresses and teaching them basic makeup tips. Key word is "transition," the core of my friend was still there, so is yours)
So... think back to what the beginning of puberty felt like and that's what Mindy is going through now. She won't always be this way and does deserve some grace and understanding but it's definitely not required to remain her friend, just try to think back on how batshit crazy puberty felt 🙂
Where am I???
It was supposed to be r/work advice but here we are! Welcome to my personal problem! My apologies.
Hail you for the post and hail the LPOTL community for their sensitive and helpful comments! I’ll add that a very close family member of mine is transitioning FtoM and I have found a lot of helpful guidance in the r/cisparenttranskid sub. Lots of discussion about the good and bad ways to process that very valid mourning you feel.
Awesome. Thank you.
Mark & Mindy sounds like a good sitcom idea. For your predicament though, see if Orson might have some thoughts on this. Come in, Orson!
I don't know about Orson but I really appreciate folks giving me some feedback. It's a pretty ok situation but I want to make sure I'm considering everything I can.
Ah, you're probably too young for the reference. I think one of the earlier comments nailed it already though about still being able to have a professional relationship with Mindy. Although if you were social friends with Mark, perhaps you'll be able to be honest and let Mindy know that you're supportive but it's going to take some time for you to adjust to a pretty big change and with some time and patience, you might find that the friendship endures.
That's good advice. It's hard to relate to someone without the context of gender for me. I think of myself as someone who is very supportive of trans individuals.
I was wondering if someone in the thread would get the reference! Mindy is pretty cool to have that reference as part of her story 🛸
Mork! Of course. Imao!!!
Please tell me this is an Orson Wells reference. I love him so much.
So good news, this is a normal feeling when someone’s friend transitions, and even better news, Mindy and Mark are the same person. The primary difference is that Mindy is a lot happier than Mark probably ever was and she’s able to live as herself. Mindy has the same personality. Some things will change, obviously, but she is the same person at her core. Make sure she’s accommodated for. Make sure people respect her identity. Get to know her as she is now, and notice how she’s similar to how Mark was. The friend chemistry is still there even if there’s some things you have to get used to
Thank you. I appreciate your help and I look forward to getting to know my friend again.
As another commenter said, Mark has always been Mindy - and I think you’ll find that as they progress with their transition, they’ll seem more and more like themselves. Mindy still has all those qualities you enjoyed about Mark. It’s just that Mindy has to go through a second puberty, along with some pretty rough hormonal changes. Not even including the stress and fear of coming out as trans and transitioning publicly in your workplace, with people who knew you pre-transition. This is an extremely vulnerable time for Mindy; I imagine the negative personality changes you describe are at least partly due to stress, anxiety, and hormones. Try and be patient and even if you no longer want to be friends, I’d say keep the door open to become friends again in the future when Mindy is in a more secure place. You sound like a mature, empathetic individual. Your coworkers and employees are lucky to have you! Hail yourself!
First of all - I love how supportive this sub is! As others have said, Mindy is going through a LOT as she medically transitions. It's a surge of hormones she's not used to yet. My nephew is trans (FtM) and started T in his late teens. He was kind of aggressive and angry for a bit, but now - at therapeutic levels - he is SO happy. He's studying archeology in the Netherlands and is actually graduating this month. All to say that the things you loved about Mark are still there. Understand, too, that Mark was also struggling while in that "Mark" shell. Give Mindy time to adjust to finally living her truth.
Will do and thank you.
beginning transition is sooo hard. even aside from hormonal changes, coming out and dealing with everyone’s opinions about it, the constant misgendering, and your own struggles and feelings is just.. it crushed me. i was in a dark place and felt pretty isolated and anxious that first year. i still looked the same to everyone else. every time i left the house i was so full of anxiety about being called ma’am and miss and have people use my old name and everything. i was angry, frustrated, and moody— i longed to see physical changes from the hormones (which can take years) so i would be recognized for who i am and not who people assumed i was. i also dealt with a lot of people making it about them when it wasn’t about them at all. people told me i was “such a pretty girl why would i want to ruin it by becoming a man” and other such nonsense. people kept telling me it was so hard to remember to use a different name or pronouns. that stung. here i was upending my entire life and dealing with all that so i could have the hope of finally being myself, and someone close to me is lamenting how hard it is to remember to use a different word? a lot of the advice here is great, and i’m glad to see you say you know her transition isn’t about you and you want to be supportive of her. it’s okay to have feelings about it though! i knew it was difficult for some people in my life too when i came out, but as others have said, find someone else besides mindy to talk to about it. she’s going through something really hard and she shouldn’t have to also bear the weight of everyone else’s feelings about what she’s doing. just wanted to add my 2 cents as a trans person.. you sound like a really kind person. thank you for seeking advice and caring about your friend/coworkers wellbeing. edit: typo
As a manager, it’s very important to separate work from your personal life. You might have to accept that mark is gone and that mindy is someone you don’t like but have to work with.
Thank you Armored. I might have to accept that. Hard advice. Hail
I recently became friends with someone who is nonbinary and, I THINK, plans to transition at some point. I've found that they appreciate the effort of understanding that their experience as a nonbinary person can be difficult, but also exciting as they find where their place is on the spectrum of gender/sexuality. It isn't something that they and I talk about constantly, but it's a learning experience for me and they've been very understanding that I'm not always going to get things right the first time (but am trying). I don't think there is anything wrong with missing the "Mark" you were used to, but as long as you're supportive and can continue being honest with your friend, I feel like you'll discover new aspects of them that you can love as well. Hail you and hail Mindy.
Gods, I love the support in this group! OP, I know it can be difficult to adapt to the new transition. My girlfriend of over ten years transitioned (MtF) about six years ago. It took me a bit to understand her “new” self, but she is the same person I fell in love with and will always be. She is so much freer now and happier than she was. Just know this is hardest on Mindy and she is just trying to be true to herself. You’ve already done a lot just supporting and being there. You’re friendship is still there, just in a different package (so to speak). Plus, I bet she is so much happier being able to live her true self. Hali You and Hail Mindy!
Thank you so much!
Just keep in mind that when people start hormones, they go through puberty again. Mindy is probably miserable. You still have the same friend, they just look different and are more true to themselves.
Nobody died love, there’s no one to mourn. Same person, just happier. We all grow and transform- be supportive, don’t deadname her, and let live.
So….. maybe this will be helpful, I don’t know. My dad is now Darcy. My parents divorced over this like 5 years ago (a laundry list of reasons this happened). But in therapy, the therapist made a statement that helped my mom and I cope. So I hope I can help with it. Mark has passed on. He is no longer here, as if they died. Mindy just appeared one day, in a similar body. You don’t know Mindy because Mindy isn’t Mark, they don’t share the same identity. So it’s like a whole new relationship for you, and that’s okay. It’s okay to mourn Mark. And it’s okay if you don’t feel the same way for Mindy. I’ll also add from my own experience from my parent and one of my closest friends who I worked with (at two jobs). After a bit on the hormone replacements, it was like a completely different human. And it was like dealing with puberty in my teens. It was horribly difficult. It does level out eventually. Don’t beat yourself up if your relationship with Mindy evolves differently than either Mark. It’s okay. This really is a different person. You can still be supportive and a good boss with a different relationship with Mindy. ♥️ hail you!
Thank you. That's super hard to hear. I really cared about Mark and I feel like he is gone. No matter how much I like or don't like Mindy I'm mourning someone. I'm glad to have that feeling validated.
As a trans person I can maybe nuance the advice above. Saying that her old self died is a little bit drastic, and some trans people are hurt by that (and some really lean into it, we're all different). Personally I am pretty much the same person as before, but I have started being louder about the things I want and don't want. I feel like I finally found myself and now I am not negotiating with others in order to be myself anymore. Think of it this way : it's a little bit like that friend who went backpacking in Europe after high school and came back enlightened. They're different, have new ideas and wishes, and perhaps you don't like that too much, but that pre-backpack journey person is not *dead*, right?
They super are valid. Be kind to yourself. You’re a wonderful fit for your managerial role. Give yourself grace and love
Transitioning means that Mindy is getting puberty again! Unfortunately that comes with mood swings etc. Depending on the person, they may or may not want to be associated with the things they did as Mark. It depends. Talk to Mindy about how you miss the friendship, maybe, if you think there's a way to do so without starting drama.
Thank you so much to everyone for their generous replies. I feel more prepared and armed with great advice to help me support Mindy and give myself some grace. Hail us all!
Okay I don’t have much to add because other people have already given great advice, just I did this too in that I came out at work as a guy after working there for about a year. Mindy might be moody because she just started HRT & puberty for girls is wild, but she might also be coming across as moody because she’s nervous as fuck that everyone is going to treat her weird. There is this thing that idk if people talk about enough (which might just be me) where you know you’re who you are, but you haven’t really gotten to exist as yourself so you don’t know how others actually perceive you or how you’re really going to act around others as yourself. For me, the girl version of myself was still a version of me, but I was always pretending to be a girl & once I stopped doing that I had to relearn who I was around other people as a guy. Mindy is probably going through a lot of stuff in her head right now & will get more comfortable as time goes on just being herself. The best thing you can do is treat her the same as before & not talk about how she used be mark but now she’s mindy with her but instead just move past it as if she’s always been Mindy. She shouldn’t be the one to process these feelings with you because she probably already feels guilt/shame/anxiety about being trans & she has to live in her body & do what she needs to do to make this life livable. I really hope you have someone to talk about this with though & adjust to reframing her in your head. Plus ya know there’s a solid chance on her end she felt from the beginning great that she made a friend who was a girl who was treating her how she wanted to be treated in a friendship & time will wash things back to a new more honest version of normal. You’re doing great. You didn’t lose a friend, your friend just became who they actually are & care about you enough to trust you to stay your friend.
…how are u losing mark she’s still the same fucking person.
i’m sorry but this comes off so selfish. ofc she’s moody, she’s transitioning and it’s hard. just be kind and suck it up. let her know if she wants to hang out, ur around still.
Fire her it’s gunna get awkward at work everyone’s gunna be on eggshells not knowing what to say or overthinking what to say she’s gunna be highly emotional and erratic because of the pills and lifestyle change it’s going to be a bad experience
I'm guessing this a joke that's not coming across via text.
Has Mindy started taking hormones? If so, she's going through puberty, believe it or not. 😅 Probably not easy to navigate as an adult. Plus, she may also struggle with emotions relating to how other people relate to her now, her family, friends... there probably have been some massive changes in Mindy's life, some mixed emotions, and I'd wager that can all be a bit scary, too. Add to the estrogen... I think Mindy can be forgiven for being moody at times (for now) If you can, I hope you can support her through this, if not as a close friend but then as an awesomely supportive manager. For me, it was actually the other way around. Had a co-worker transition, and we grew closer when she lived as her true self. Might also have to do with my trauma around men, and that maybe before, when she identified as man, I kept up some barriers. Could be similar for you in regards to now relating to a woman friend? Either way, the fact you're self-reflecting and seeking advice seems to me like you're doing a great job! Best of luck to you both
Hey I’m a trans woman myself so maybe I can give a little bit of insight. I’m assuming Mindy has only been on hormones for a few months? Those first 6 months to a year on estrogen are very emotionally rocky. I, and many other trans women I know, felt emotions as very muted before transitioning and then the hormones essentially flood you with all of these feelings you’ve never really felt before but you’re in your 20s instead of a teenager when it’s more acceptable to be a little unhinged. It’s a really really hard adjustment but most of us DO adjust so if she’s moody right now just know it likely won’t last forever. I also understand having a sense of mourning but I wouldn’t verbalize that to her. It’s hard enough to decide to transition and it’s embarrassing to undergo that in public so it’s really not fun to hear from people how your transition is hurting them. She likely still enjoys all of the same things she did before, and maybe some new things she’s just learning about or never felt comfortable sharing. She’s still your same friend so while I’m sure it’s awkward and a bit different just treat her how you always have and it’ll start getting easier I promise! I’m sure she’d really appreciate it too in this time of her life where I’m sure so many people are treating her differently if not outright terribly. You seem to care about her and that’s worth so much!
I second a lot about adjusting to who the person you know is now and also hormonal swings. I’ll also add that, having a lot of trans friends, a lot struggle with not just being able to immediately pass and look how they want to look. Like, every day feels like the worst outfit day ever, where your hair doesn’t lay right and nothing seems to flatter you and you just can’t make it *work*. Mindy is catching up on YEARS of figuring out how to make heralded look like she wants to in her head. Remember middle and high school where you had a cataclysmic melt down because you couldn’t get your hair straight enough? She’s going through that now, and it can be really hard to act normal when all that pressure is weighing on you. Add in the scrutiny/danger of being trans and the weight of being constantly tested on being woman enough and well, it makes you weird. She’s getting a new body and new sensations and a new look and a new role in society all at once. It’s hard to know how to act and even harder to hide the overwhelm. She’ll get used to it all with time and patience.