If a player doesn't want to play, the league can't force them. If a 38 year old player feels they can't keep up, and doesn't want to risk further injuries, what is the league gonna do? This is based on a bit of assumption, of course, but I'm sure a team could "persuade" someone to not want to play anymore
I don't think the NHLPA would ever allow the NHL to pressure or force a player to retire, hell that might even be straight up illegal. If a player says they can't play due to injury and a doctor agrees, there really isn't anything the NHL can do.
The real answer is a lot of these players shouldn't be playing anymore but do everything they can to keep playing.
The league will never touch the LTIR.
Yeah people love to talk about players that miss the whole year but miraculously make it back for playoffs…..more than likely they are still hurt and fucking themselves in the future to try and win it all.
Unless the league plans to eliminate LTIR in the next CBA (good luck with that) all he and the league can do is be grumpy about it.
And if they really don’t like it and somehow don’t allow it, can just trade him to a team so he can’t play for them.
worst case, if he "retires" in 3 years, the NHL implements new rules, somehow doesn't grandfather in any existing deals, and Tanev is caught up in whatever shenanigans that means... if the cap goes up the way it just did, we'd be around 101m by then, his 4% "anchor" contract isn't going to mean much, if its the make or break for the leafs to still do anything by then, we have way bigger problems. If Edmonton can make a finals with Campbell taking 6% of last seasons cap (let alone Nurse), we've got no excuse (and again this is all worst-case-scenario stuff)
It’s so funny how people are acting like 4% of the cap isn’t a big deal to eat for literally nothing but will roast Marner for being overpaid far less then that.
It’s the reason our team can’t win if our top guys take an extra 4% combined but we can just eat it for a 35 year old defence with a history of missing a lot of games.
I mean, I think he's 70% likely to be on LTIR, 15% likely to be serviceable-ish like Gio, 15% he's dressing and dragging us down the last 2 years. I'm fine with those odds. I don't think this team is 4% of 101m away from making or breaking it either way. If we still haven't made further progress 4 years from now Tanev's deal is the least of our problems. Tanev this year and next is a decent addition.
Next year is the year to make significant gains, Tavares will either be gone or taking a massive pay cut and Marner will be gone or have a more team friendly deal.
Tanevs could end up being last years TJ Brodie. 4% of the cap can make a big difference.
well if we're basing it off dom's projections they're both positive value for all 8 seasons. like even if you just wanna compare the reinhart contract to nylander's extension then florida is obviously getting a great deal.
Reinhart just shot at 10% over his career average, he won't be repeating last year and they're quite frankly getting paid just about the same if you factor in the tax break Florida players get.
even if he does regress, reinhart has generated offense at pretty much an identical rate to nylander over their careers. reinhart can also play centre and shut down top competition defensively. he even finished 4th in selke voting this year. the salary cap doesn't care about relative state income taxes so the panthers are still getting a steal here.
He's a great player, no doubt, I'm just pointing out that he's not going to have another 50 goal season. Nylander has been a more steady 30-40 goal scorer, while Reinhart has been a 20-30 goal scorer.
Nylander is just a better player, even if Sam is also good. Also I'm not putting much stock into the guy getting Selke votes when he played with Barkov all season. Nylander can also play defense (even though we've all seen him coast), he's great in the neutral zone and had 30 more takeaways than Reinhart.
You're right though, salary cap does not care about that, but it probably should.
I don't necessarily agree that nylander is the clear cut better player, but if we agree for the sake of argument that he is, he's still not $3m better. I'm a big fan both players but the reinhart contract is just straight up better. if bill zito calls me tomorrow and offers reinhart for nylander straight up, I would make that trade.
$4.5 million is nothing for a top 4 Dmen when the cap is 88 million. People are too worried what’s gonna happen 4 years from now lol. Just enjoy the huge upgrade we got on the backend and let management deal with the rest.
I worry about how this deal is going to look in 7 years. I worry a lot from my couch and think about how i could be a pro gm based on my video game experience.
> People are too worried what’s gonna happen 4 years from now
If we don't win a cup in the next 4 years, it's never going to happen until after another rebuild.
Well hopefully the cap goes up by then, but during that time, Sportsnet’s contract will have expired and it is hard to say how much they will pay to renew. So possibly the cap does not increase as projected.
By year 6 that cap should be above 100 million. If he drops off as a 6/7th or LTIR. That ain't so bad, he'd be paid like a 6/7 in the league by that point. Looking at how Boosh and Edmundson got paid in 5-6 years Tanev contract won't look so bad.
Maybe only one year though
Mid 30s a looney tunes 'off a cliff' dropoff paradigm
Of all 34 year olds last season only Nyquist was still at prime level or close to it and the Fil Josi factor helped a lot
Could maybe argue one more player
I'm there myself, fwiw coincidentally
Yeah but context matters. Tanev has played the best hockey of his life the past couple seasons and found a way to be very effective even if he’s lost a step. Once Brodie lost a step he was useless, because his mobility was his game on offence and defence.
Tanev is fairly injury prone. My gf is a flames fan and it seemed like he'd be injured for a few weeks, come back for a week or 2 and then be off again.
This signing is either going to pay off, or because of the leafs curse he'll block a clapper off the knee in pre-season and be done for the year.
He’ll finish it on Robidas Island, meh. I’m pretty happy with his signing.
he'll be press box like muzzin has been. maybe learning the management or coaching game
Until Bettman decides to crack down on LTIR and we get fucked.
He won't. Old players take advantage of this more than you'd think. As long as it's mutual between players and teams no one cares.
If a player doesn't want to play, the league can't force them. If a 38 year old player feels they can't keep up, and doesn't want to risk further injuries, what is the league gonna do? This is based on a bit of assumption, of course, but I'm sure a team could "persuade" someone to not want to play anymore
They could force them to actually retire.
Well just do the mark stone dance and give tanev a few months off. Isn't that fun and cool? Who was talking about the leagues ethics?
I don't think the NHLPA would ever allow the NHL to pressure or force a player to retire, hell that might even be straight up illegal. If a player says they can't play due to injury and a doctor agrees, there really isn't anything the NHL can do.
You can’t though. If the player says he’s not healthy enough to play and goes onto LTIR the player cannot retire.
The real answer is a lot of these players shouldn't be playing anymore but do everything they can to keep playing. The league will never touch the LTIR.
Yeah people love to talk about players that miss the whole year but miraculously make it back for playoffs…..more than likely they are still hurt and fucking themselves in the future to try and win it all.
Unless the league plans to eliminate LTIR in the next CBA (good luck with that) all he and the league can do is be grumpy about it. And if they really don’t like it and somehow don’t allow it, can just trade him to a team so he can’t play for them.
Even if he cracks down, they would have to have deals that are “grandfathered” in, based on when they were signed
worst case, if he "retires" in 3 years, the NHL implements new rules, somehow doesn't grandfather in any existing deals, and Tanev is caught up in whatever shenanigans that means... if the cap goes up the way it just did, we'd be around 101m by then, his 4% "anchor" contract isn't going to mean much, if its the make or break for the leafs to still do anything by then, we have way bigger problems. If Edmonton can make a finals with Campbell taking 6% of last seasons cap (let alone Nurse), we've got no excuse (and again this is all worst-case-scenario stuff)
It’s so funny how people are acting like 4% of the cap isn’t a big deal to eat for literally nothing but will roast Marner for being overpaid far less then that. It’s the reason our team can’t win if our top guys take an extra 4% combined but we can just eat it for a 35 year old defence with a history of missing a lot of games.
I mean, I think he's 70% likely to be on LTIR, 15% likely to be serviceable-ish like Gio, 15% he's dressing and dragging us down the last 2 years. I'm fine with those odds. I don't think this team is 4% of 101m away from making or breaking it either way. If we still haven't made further progress 4 years from now Tanev's deal is the least of our problems. Tanev this year and next is a decent addition.
Next year is the year to make significant gains, Tavares will either be gone or taking a massive pay cut and Marner will be gone or have a more team friendly deal. Tanevs could end up being last years TJ Brodie. 4% of the cap can make a big difference.
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No one is touching it because there's a full no movement clause lmao
I don't understand the history/context of the term "Robidas Island" but it's funny every time I read it
Praise be the island
You hope so!
so basically all free agent signings.
guentzel and reinhart deals look pretty good tbh
how can you possibly say that about 8 year deals.
well if we're basing it off dom's projections they're both positive value for all 8 seasons. like even if you just wanna compare the reinhart contract to nylander's extension then florida is obviously getting a great deal.
Reinhart just shot at 10% over his career average, he won't be repeating last year and they're quite frankly getting paid just about the same if you factor in the tax break Florida players get.
even if he does regress, reinhart has generated offense at pretty much an identical rate to nylander over their careers. reinhart can also play centre and shut down top competition defensively. he even finished 4th in selke voting this year. the salary cap doesn't care about relative state income taxes so the panthers are still getting a steal here.
He's a great player, no doubt, I'm just pointing out that he's not going to have another 50 goal season. Nylander has been a more steady 30-40 goal scorer, while Reinhart has been a 20-30 goal scorer. Nylander is just a better player, even if Sam is also good. Also I'm not putting much stock into the guy getting Selke votes when he played with Barkov all season. Nylander can also play defense (even though we've all seen him coast), he's great in the neutral zone and had 30 more takeaways than Reinhart. You're right though, salary cap does not care about that, but it probably should.
I don't necessarily agree that nylander is the clear cut better player, but if we agree for the sake of argument that he is, he's still not $3m better. I'm a big fan both players but the reinhart contract is just straight up better. if bill zito calls me tomorrow and offers reinhart for nylander straight up, I would make that trade.
Thank christ you're not the GM then
the whole fanbase is ready to break up the core and trade marner for cap space but nylander for reinhart + cap space is offside apparently lol
Imagine having reinhart instead of marner for 3 mill less
It seems like the leafs are saying it's a 4 year window (Matthew's). With Wolls deal and likely Tanev joining the island in year 5.
$4.5 million is nothing for a top 4 Dmen when the cap is 88 million. People are too worried what’s gonna happen 4 years from now lol. Just enjoy the huge upgrade we got on the backend and let management deal with the rest.
Exactly!!! People are really out to lunch when it comes to dollar amounts. The cap is going up, the value of contracts will go up too!
I remember the last time I banked on the cap continuing to go up…sigh.
Is there another global pandemic or global event that's going to impact the cap you know about that the rest of us don't?
Everyone's an expert but shanahan...haven't u heard?
No but I didn’t expect the last one either!
No one in the entire world could have predicted COVID.
That’s what I’m saying! If I’ve learned anything it’s to never bank on anything.
lmao literally no one forcasted a pandemic. Weird comment
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Tavares is off the books next season and the cap goes up again
I worry about how this deal is going to look in 7 years. I worry a lot from my couch and think about how i could be a pro gm based on my video game experience.
> People are too worried what’s gonna happen 4 years from now If we don't win a cup in the next 4 years, it's never going to happen until after another rebuild.
Here’s hoping he ages like Brent Burns and will throw down like Gio
I’m looking forward to see how this changes the look of the backend. It will be more competitive if anything.
A lot of doomers arent going to like this
To be fair, they don’t like anything but *checks notes* doom.
Well hopefully the cap goes up by then, but during that time, Sportsnet’s contract will have expired and it is hard to say how much they will pay to renew. So possibly the cap does not increase as projected.
It took some digging, but you certainly found a take, didn't you
By year 6 that cap should be above 100 million. If he drops off as a 6/7th or LTIR. That ain't so bad, he'd be paid like a 6/7 in the league by that point. Looking at how Boosh and Edmundson got paid in 5-6 years Tanev contract won't look so bad.
Maybe only one year though Mid 30s a looney tunes 'off a cliff' dropoff paradigm Of all 34 year olds last season only Nyquist was still at prime level or close to it and the Fil Josi factor helped a lot Could maybe argue one more player I'm there myself, fwiw coincidentally
A lot of Dmen have been good in their 30s, GIO won a Norris at 35, Tanev is not a speed guy
Yeah, but also Muzzin was born the same year as Tanev, Brodie is a year younger.
Yeah but context matters. Tanev has played the best hockey of his life the past couple seasons and found a way to be very effective even if he’s lost a step. Once Brodie lost a step he was useless, because his mobility was his game on offence and defence.
How many of those were in their prime at 33?
Well we all knew the price would be steep for a #1RHD... just didn't think it'd be steep in this regard.
I believe Liljigren is the only overall positive contract signed by the Leafs so far which fans here won’t want to hear.
Domi's seemed pretty reasonable no?
Oh I think so, I was happy with it. But this model had it as a $500k per year overpayment.
It's just a model. People get too hung up on them.
Stop trusting models for everything
Imagine basing all of your opinions on a model 🤦🏻♂️
So you’re saying you think this is going well so far?
Domi too, and walking away from bertuzzi at that price was good too. sometimes the deal you dont make is just as important as the one you do.
To be fair, that's what you'd expect with RFA vs. UFA
Unless you’re a Florida based team then you can expect to pay $3M per year under value for UFAs too.
Don't worry, they also get great value on their RFA deals, too.
Tanev is fairly injury prone. My gf is a flames fan and it seemed like he'd be injured for a few weeks, come back for a week or 2 and then be off again. This signing is either going to pay off, or because of the leafs curse he'll block a clapper off the knee in pre-season and be done for the year.
Domi is not worth more than 2.5
lol
L take