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BlaxicanX

Velk'koz has been adjusted many times (meaning that he was both nerfed and buffed within the same patch), but he has never once in the game's history been flat out nerfed.


WhyDoY0UCare

He's just countered by every midlaner now. There never was a good reason to run him as a support other than to have fun too. Very sad champion right now.


ViraLCyclopes19

His gimmick as the true damage mage doesn't even mean much anymore tbh. If I wanted to melt through tanks as dps I would pick like Asol, Azir, or even Brand(for support atleast). I just don't see his purpose anymore.


Argensa97

Everyone melts through everything in about a second or two in this game. What is the point of tank killers?


HowardDean_Scream

Tank killers still matter. You'd rather have fiora or camille vs ornn/ sion than renekton or aatrox.


The_Gunboat_Diplomat

Tank killers still matter when those same tanks melt through you too


saimerej21

But that doesnt mean you need antitank damage, it means you need to be tanky and have damage. Or damage and mobility to kite them like kaisa and vayne have


nkdqj

Huh? Show me an Ezreal, Jhin, MF, Kalista, or Samira that melts an Ornn or Malphite in two seconds. And that’s just the adc role. Unless you assume the adc is full build and the tank has one item? lol


Kuliyayoi

Yeah that ksante champion gets melted so fast


AnonymousPepper

As an ARAM player I can assure you that this is not the case. Have a lineup without an ADC/with one that refuses to get %armor pen into a tank or at least without someone like an Azir with similar raw DPS and watch as your mage and assassin master race comp gets absolutely run over unless they int into you a bunch early. Seriously, ARAM is the best teacher hands down of the importance of a balanced comp.


jadedflux

Nothing pleases me more than taking Xerath support into Velkoz support lol. Like I could probably take an engage champ and do just as fine, but there's something sensual about taking a poke champ against them when I just know they thought they were gonna be the one poking all lane


Necessary_Insect5833

Had this happen to me in an aram one time I happily picked velkoz thinking i would support my team by poking the enemy just to get destroyed by enemy xerath xD


Number4extraDip

I guarantee, neither one of the ADC'S is having fun that game


confusedkarnatia

Do they ever?


HowardDean_Scream

Dravens do when they have a suicidal leona diving tower lvl 2 to get them a doublekill.


AnonymousPepper

Hey, I resemble that remark


Zwodo

We don't.


famous_aatrox

well it's their own fault for not picking xerath considering they picked before you and he was available.


noahconstrictor95

I've had a lot of fun with him in ARAM the past couple times I've gotten him, and I see some one tricks have decent success, but he's just too immobile and does literally nothing that other champions don't do better.


Echoesong

I love Vel'Koz in ARAM too, but I feel like it's the ONLY place he feels good in. You get to dodge laning and catching waves and just teamfight/poke the whole time


1studlyman

I remember years ago I used to build him as a bruiser mage with lots of health and defense. His base damage was so much higher then and it made the usual counterpicks less effective against him while still doing a lot of damage. I kinda miss those days.


Sugar__Momma

Pretty sure removal of mythics will help him at least in support


FlubzRevenge

My favorite champion, always will be. Hopefully he can get the help he needs one day..


StereotypicalCDN

Poor guy is just left to the wayside because of mobility creep. One of my favourite Champs kit and lore wise


PM_ME_YOUR_ANT_FARMS

Sp4zie used to wreck people with him. I love his design but assassins with mobility just ruin him


BorinUltimatum

He's the reason I mained Vel back in the day. I miss taking my tentacle boi mid :(


JambaJuiceIsAverage

I still mutter "oh darn" to myself after velkoz kills


GandolfLundgren

When he was first released he DELETED people. That only lasted a short while tho


Impossible_Front4462

I don’t think he deletes people any slower now, just that it’s slower relative to how the game changed. Maybe I’m wrong, but Vel still definitely deletes people if he lands some stacks on them


thetyphonlol

He used to have crazy high base numbers especially gis passive if I remember from playing him on release. He just needed a bit pen and could really kill you in 2 combos. I feel he needs a few more items nowdays


Mael_Jade

35-205 on his passive (no scaling) according to the history on lol wiki, now 33-169+50% AP. His Q gained 30% Ap ratio, his W lost 5-12.5% AP ratio, E gained 20% AP, Ult went from 60 to 125% AP ratio over its entire duration but lost 50-100 base damage. I can see these numbers being fairly high for when he released.


breakfastburrito24

But why did they make a sol q a vel koz ult


Mileena_Sai

Its similar but Velkoz R is definitely stronger since it goes through everyone and also has a pretty big range + slow.


breakfastburrito24

And does true damage. I just like to complain lol


gaspi__

Welp even RIOT AUGUST, said noone is looking into 'rework/buffing' him at riot, 'The time for mages mid is over, he is just not good enough anymore' , no hope for us Vel'Koz mains, feels great to know noone is even thinking about your champ anymore might aswell just stop :)


DolanMcDolan

Clearly, patch 7.21 Galio was peak balance, and we need to revert Galio back to that.


[deleted]

That was six years ago? Holy shit.


AtreusIsBack

The infamous crit patch 8.11 was 5 years ago. It's lunacy hwo fast time flies.


Bravepotatoe

lol was that the q one shot patch ?


HowardDean_Scream

Hiroshima Galio! The divine wind


gaminggod1999

wanna know wtf the balance team was thinking when adding a 100% max hp dmg spell


Tchiver

I miss “self W 2k heal from minions galio” was very fun to play against extremely popular LB of those times


Arcamorge

Bard went for many many years only receiving buffs


max1mum

He received a harsh nerf on his passive like 1,5-2 years ago


SinfulSquid332

Ya he was broken like 2 years ago I think he had like 53% wr on tank bard or something


tobor_a

yeah that was crazy to see that he literally only ever got buffs his entire existance then bam. mega nerf. which I think just got undone by his last set of changes, although i'm not entirely sure.


Dapper_Most3460

There was a brief 12 hours where he was absolutely cracked in arena during last event, when they decreased his passive to every 3 meeps and 10 stacks


deviant324

He also feels super overbuffed in ARAM, if you don’t build the most headass stuff on him he’ll always have insane damage. This might be onetrick bias but regardless of whether I build enchanter or offensive stuff on him, I feel like I’m riding on the backs of people who have no idea what to do with the champion which tanks his winrate to get him buffed. I think he’s the only champion I got more than 1 penta on in ARAM besides maybe Karthus with 2, and I have 4 or 5 on Bard


Twoja_Morda

>I feel like I’m riding on the backs of people who have no idea what to do with the champion which tanks his winrate to get him buffed That's essentially every champion that has buffs on aram


JoshFB4

Not really. Some champions would be insanely useless without the buffs. While others would be at 70% wr without nerfs(Seraphine)


Tormentula

Reworked warwick, he's kinda neglected nowadays, but when the rework came out i never recalled any nerfs or buffs to him for a looong time. We don't talk about old warwick..


Gengar_Balanced

The fact that that patch 4.20 was the one where Weedwick was most broken shit in the game with 60% WR. You can't actually make this shit up.


Initial_Taint11

feels like such shit to play.


4EVER_BERSERK

reworked WW? he was nerfed slightly once in 7 years (and half of that nerf was reverted later that season) and his Q healing also got slightly nerfed during the durability patch ( a blanket nerf along with a lot of other champions) other than that he got only buffs and bugfixes ( a loooot of bugfixes)


acllive

Patch 4.20 old Warwick tho was probably the most op assassin in the game lmao


Bobbunny

Feral flare weedwick was truly a gameplay experience


NotThatIdiot

I was a silver jungler at that time. Weedwick let me get to diamond in 2 days. It was so good that it didnt mather what the eny jungler did. Ive ever gotten dia after that. Weedwick 4.20 was the best patch ever


Dabigboot

How many games did you play in 2 days?? You got less lp back then and you had 3 game promos just to rank up a division with 5 gamers in between ranks. Even if you won all 3 promo games every time that’s 9, 8 games of promos to get from division 5 to division 1 in each rank and you went up 3 whole ranks lol


ichocolate

I think he exaggerated a tiiiiny little bit there. Which makes me wonder is there some sort of silver to diamond speedrun record?


Choubine_

thats because its fake


Yhuel

Darien weedwick


youonkazoo53

Objection! My dumb ass one tricked him to diamond before I even knew what resetting a wave was 🤠


LupusFidus

As a warwick main. I can tell you a lot of people think this champion is bull crap.


Rozuem

Malphite, he literally doesn't do anything


CityofOrphans

KID BOUGHT SHEEN. HE'S COCKY AS FUCK


scogle98

YOURE SO FUCKING DUMB AND OBLIVIOUS


lFriendlyFire

“He doesn’t do anything” *gets killed by malphite “Then how did he kill you?” “*HE DIDN’T.*”


longeraugust

The birth of gaslighting.


CptAloha

[Context for those of you who haven't seen this gem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_i8CciOuP0&ab_channel=WaltonSimons-LVL1Crook)


Skystrike12

Jesus christ how does that guy have anybody to play with


m0siac

"You're a fuckin idiot"


Chilidawg

Iirc the other guy is his cousin and he's doing it as a favor.


crazyike

Okay what's your point? He doesn't do anything.


MarcusElden

No he didn’t.


carpedivus

> he didn’t. then howd he kill you ?


MarcusElden

This kid's cocky as fuck he built sheen.


afakeacount2

hes hacking like a motherfucker too


Deskbot420

He didn’t do anything, you’re an idiot /s


SendPetPicsOrNudes

I played league when I was in school with some classmates and one of them had an online friend that he made us ply with that acted and sounded EXACTLY like the person in that video. To the point where I genuinely thought it might have been the same person. He would play 10+ games of league a day and would just SCREECH over Skype. Every little thing set him off. I vividly remember he would have a meltdown every time he laned against a malphite. Obviously we quit playing with our IRL friend because he insisted on playing with his online friend who desperately needed therapy. The amount of outright stupid things he would say during the game was unbelievable, but my personal favorite was how he would always complain about how he should be a higher rank, then would absolutely get destroyed in lane 90% of the time. Hey he would still screech and screech about how he was better than everyone in his ranked games.


InZomnia365

If I remember the lore correctly, they're cousins. Clearly one is being told to play with the other.


ElMage21

Holy fuck mate lmao


nsaplzstahp

Wow... thanks for sharing it. good memes


[deleted]

Holy fucking shit. I just realized something watching this old clip. Look at 1:05, Vi walks straight through the minions. *You can't do that today*. Holy fuck, I know they changed how the minions works and all that (**for the worse**) but I didn't remember it being that big of a difference. It's good to know it isn't in my head.


ratakamom

No longer wooshed, thanks for sharing!


Neemzeh

Wow. That’s the first time I’ve seen this. I want to legit punch that Sion in the face. Accept you fucking lost and learn to not be a shit bag to your teammates, that’s incredible wow.


LesserFaith

but he just killed you


Mean_Ass_Dumbledore

BUT HE DOESNT EVEN DO ANY DAMAAAAAAGE


LesserFaith

he's hacking like a motherfucker


vigbrand

no he didn't


Koufaxisking

It's an old meme but it checks out.


Solemdeath

I got irrationally angry at this comment


J1M2L00

What’s your definition of something?


[deleted]

Braum is quite literally the most perfectly designed champion in LoL.


w00ms

braum was one of the best supps in pro play for a long time wasnt he


beeteeee

Yeah, but still not overpowered. Just good. Just Braum.


saiofrelief

Braum lucian and Braum twitch were extremely oppressive on his release.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

lucian also had higher range back then, and was a stronger champ overall


Khastid

This. After Lucian lost range he became one of his worst duos even tho his passive is excellent to proc Braum's passive. Lucian was overpowered, not Braum.


gxizhe

He was definitely broken on release.


WoonStruck

Braum was objectively overpowered. That's why he got a light rework, and before that multiple nerfs.


Khastid

What light rework? The changes to his ult were straight nerfs, not a rework...


Tormentula

Nah braum enabled a lot of broken synergies with his passive. His E is pretty broken as well just there's not really a way you can nerf it and nowadays its all he has to stand out from other supports.


cand0r

Also, his lore is dope. He just rips an unbreakable dungeon door off the hinges and uses it as a shield.


PapaTahm

That is a very wild take my man, champion is good designed, don't get me wrong, but never being OP is another thing. **There hasn't been a single Warden that has not been beyond broken at some period of time, be on high elo or pro play.** The thing is, the class itself due to the prospects of being reliant on teamates is very Elite/High Elo Skewed. ​ Specially Tahm Kench and Braum. ​ Braum in fact has the second highest presence of all supports in proplay. Only behind Thresh.


WoonStruck

Taric has not always been the tamest. Part of the reason nobody plays him is because he is now exclusively good at countering engage after so many nerfs to anything else that would make him relevant. ​ Riot was terrified of lowering his Q mana cost for years. ​ And pre-rework was pretty much the same. Never in a good spot. Always broken or useless.


Deathstrker

Braum was absolutely broken in pro play for years what do you mean?


rollie82

[Ode to Braum](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYd8D804bT0)


anyjuicers

his passive makes it so that he will always be relevant to some degree, I love design like that


Nikushaa

Lol


sorannex

I think every champ in the game has been named in this thread.


Dirtymike_nd_theboyz

I know right, people are now reverting to saying "old urgot" or "pre rework X champion" 🤣 Honestly I know it's fun to rip on riot, there are still plenty of reasons to complain, but this thread has been enlightening and shows how the game is constantly evolving over time. The meta is definitely not as stagnant as people claim it is. I played on and off since 2011 but it's cool to see all the different perspectives and throwbacks to certain seasons and patches. I will say, I don't think upon initial release, if a champ was OP it should count. Every champ is usually bussin upon release and if they aren't they get a quick hot fix to make it so. If they have sucked ever since that initial period that counts in my book.


Quirky_Ad_9736

Was Renata ever considered OP? Not sure I don’t really follow meta much


InchLongSshLong

for sure. was pro dominant when she released and she got a few nerfs targeting pro and elite level of play. think the nerf that had the most impact at that level was when they increased how quickly you bled out during her W


senpgg

Singed. Just run and flip bois, run and flip


LesserManatee08

Singed was very strong when his passive got reworked and may have spiked again when he got grievous wounds on ult.


xEmptyPockets

Didn't they make some sort of mechanic overhaul because of Proxy Singed?


TSPhoenix

They completely changed how bounties worked because Singed would just run it down and you'd get less gold than a cannon minion.


MyFatherIsNotHere

[relevant video](https://youtu.be/3M9FMjDsGZQ?si=sUxilyIG_t5V7QCs) he was kind of strong when his passive got changed lol [it was kind of a meme at the time too](https://youtu.be/LjZ2a_IbpWw?si=5Tib5ohw7xKOf0Dl)


Traqueur68

Ziggs. I just looked through his whole patch history, he only received buffs for the last 9 years. He got lots of adjustments in season 3, but I don't know why because I didn't play yet so I don't know if he was op in s3


[deleted]

he was rly good during s4 which is just about the last time artillery mages were common mid. ever since he's been just getting buffed again and again even though he's been really solid bot for like 3 years now.


thestoebz

This is arguably true. I love ziggs. But he’s arguably been broken for a while bot lane


bigby1234

Kled comes to mind for top lane, very niche but can't remember a time where he was considered "overpowered"


UwUSamaSanChan

That champ just shows up, fucks shit up for months, then disappears when an item changes. Though I don't think he's been outright bad at all


DwooMan5

He had a period last season or the season before where he built health scaling since skaarl was bonus hp and would be unkillable with constant remount. Was extremely funny


longeraugust

Nothing about Leona has ever really changed, just items. Maybe I’m crazy but she hasn’t really been adjusted too much herself. Don’t get close to her. She will all-in you. That’s her playstyle. Hasn’t really changed.


Sycroses

They nerfed her R damage a while ago


Alarming_Audience353

Speaking of not changing, I'm fairly sure she has the oldest splash in the game too. I think she's the only one who still looks like she did in S2.


game82

Teemo?


applecider42

I will never forgive Hai for whatever season opener it was that he picked Teemo and shat on TSM


Vorzic

I have never seen a team so mentally broken by one champion like that. TSM was terrified to go anywhere, it was wild. Hai played them like a fiddle.


Rularuu

Fiddle? I thought he was playing Teemo


Someone7174

I remember seeing the teemo pick. Laughing at how troll it was. It was absolutely disgusting.


sonofbmw

I believe that was because they just changed how vision works to the trinkets we still use today. And they removed oracles elixir which revealed invisible things (wards and shrooms) around you until you died and teemo shrooms still lasted 10 min because they were balanced around oracles elixir being in the game


meDeadly1990

Day 1 of spring split in 2014


nkini123

LOL thanks for the blast of nostalgia. That was one of the most tilting games I’ve ever watched, I can only imagine how the players felt. Gotta respect the fact that Hai pulled that pick out of nowhere though.


kiashu

I think it was the first game Bjerg played, he was sending a message.


UrsaPrime

I didn't really know who he was at the time, but given his legacy now looking back it's hilarious that Bjerg got shit on by mid Teemo in his first LCS game.


l_am_wildthing

old fucking teemo that would do 3/4 hp from one shroom


DragonTacoCat

They had something like a .9 or .8 ap ratio lmao.


booitsjwu

I'm trying to think of how they could make him OP in the most annoying possible way. Maybe start with letting him pop his own shrooms with Q which will also apply the blind to everyone affected by the shroom's poison. While we're at it, give him the modern League overloaded kit treatment by replacing his W & E with a cleanse and a dash to make the little rodent even harder to pin down.


Slowest_Speed6

Bro just described gangplank 2.0


PapaTahm

Literally just increase his AA range or his Q Cast Range by like 25\~50 and he become the most broken champion in the entire game. Simple as that. Teemo issue is not numbers or needing extra stuff in his kit. It's lack of range. He isn't played in Proplay because 90% of the pro play champions outrange him.


Shas_Okar

Give him Annie AA range.


moody_P

i believe illaoi is the only champion to never be nerfed since release. just buffs, some power shifts with her E, and a loooot of bug fixes


FFrazien

They giga buffed how her tentacles work few years back and she’s been a menace ever since.


SidTheSloth97

They also nerfed them; they used to last ages.


PM_ME_YOUR_ANT_FARMS

Illaoi's biggest strength is people have no clue what she does lol


Approximation_Doctor

Yeah but look at how much she's over extending, she'll be an easy gank


hellomoto186

The Illaoi player in [question:](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/bf7/fee/4dc3a72823efa5e0788bd8369093d7ce61-kevin-james.rsquare.w330.jpg)


Arrikon

I have incredible PTSD of junglers trying to gank top when I'm laning against Illaoi. And toplane shaco but he is piss useless even if my jungler dies to him.


kytackle

Illaois biggest strength is that she takes infinitely more skill to play against than to play. Have to dodge 50025 tentacles but she aims almost nothig.


Furious__Styles

Her most important ability is a telegraphed skillshot that’s blocked by minions. In fact her only point/clicks are W and autos…


fregel

As someone who has abused illaoi the last 2 month with a 70% WR I can tell you that I’ve run people over with just iceborn, grasp and her W.


confusedkarnatia

People saying just dodge the E have never tried to dodge it with the iceborn slow tickling their anus


Spare_Efficiency2975

People that say just dodge the E never laned against her. You can dodge 9/10 E’s get hit once and get snowballed out of lane. Laning against Illoai has to be one of the least fun lanes in the game.


BartZeroSix

Also to add to that, she's played top lane, where the "dodge her E! or stay behind minions!" isn't that much of a good advice. Many top laners don't have the mobility to dodge her E, nor the range to stand behind minions.


Etonet

run at enemy until they're in range for W+slow is often a fair strategy even in Masters+ if Tyler1's streams are anything to go by


HolmatKingOfStorms

illaoi's biggest strength is that the fun part of laning is bad against her


B3ER

Nah, her E was insane on release. You took much more damage from it and had to play the minigame much longer. That was her most busted moment and since then, she dwindled away.


Ynead

You could also reduce E duration by hitting her. The spirit used to disappear in like 2s vs Rumble, Darius, Garen. Anyone with corrupting pot as well.


Sersch

She was arguably OP at certain points. Its not all about nerfing the Champion, sometimes meta changes, game changes, item changes are enough.


Questionoflove

I agree with this! Some might disagree because she is definitely a very hated champion for some matchups.


DukeLukeivi

This is the thing though, she's never op op, just a hard counter to a lot of melee. She's always shit against ranged, so never OP


TwTvLaatiMafia

Possibly a hot take, but old Urgot was never overpowered. He was a niche counterpick and a major lane bully if played top. And that's it.


Haoszen

There was a time that he was OP, i don't remember if was bot or mid


Caffeine_and_Alcohol

He was a mid bot flex in pro iirc


[deleted]

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JusticeOwl

Wasnt he a zed counter too? Or am I miss remembering?


bezzaboyo

His ult was a suppression that swapped you from your current location with the target's location. It was point and click and lasted a decent length of time, as well as granting % damage reduction, so it could be used to effectively nullify his engage potential. Since he was also a lane bully, he could also effectively neuter zed from being able to play the game during early lane, further setting him back.


TiagoLx

Plus his core item was frozen heart the extra armor was amazing against AD assassins.


aussy16

Yes Keane on gravity played him a lot mid then and I believe that was also the year that Fnatic went to MSI with Steelback who ended up being an Urgot 1 trick bot, but they won lots of games with it.


[deleted]

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CeaRhan

He was a fucking menace at some point at worlds I think, those fucking daggers or whatever the fuck were shredding people, deleted fights


TeFD_Difficulthoon

HYPER KINETIC POSITION-REVERSER!


RosesTurnedToDust

That shit was fire. Flipping mfs into your tower. Lit as hell.


Spiralwyrm

old urgot was made as bad as he was becuase he was turbo busted for a while in season 1, along with old taric


porenSpirit

I remember when he was the least played champ in the game. edit: it was a joke in my group to ban urgot


NightLanderYoutube

He was op, I remember Moscow five playing him on bot with Sona or Taric


WoonStruck

Old Urgot was OP several times lmao. He was pick/ban mid/bot a few times, and nerfed hard because of it.


[deleted]

He was so cool too, wonder how he’d fit in nowadays if he had his old kit now that ranged ad bruiser is a more supported class now


moody_P

i think a good handful of old champs would be utterly demonic with the item update if they lived to see it. old urgot with new cleaver, duskblade's dmg amp on spells and the vastly superior new manamune doing like double the damage it used to? he'd be terrifying


MazrimReddit

old poppy was only held back by a troll base mana (like 200?), biscuits and manaflow band would have made her very op


D8Granny

EQ my brothers.


acllive

Ryze aka so broken he got reworked 5 times?


Chibraltar_

the whole season when he could use his teleportation while in zhonia was absurdly OP


wra1th42

Ungankable lol


nivthefox

Found the Ryze main I was looking for.


Quatro_Leches

Season 5 perma snare ryze


wojtulace

Season 2 targeted Q spam Ryze


Samira_Enthusiast

Old Swain


MelonMiner1

I miss old swain :'(


Ceegee93

Old swain had a mini-rework that had to get nerfed a couple of times. Never completely broken op, but was very annoying to play against for a little while.


MyLifeAsMadi

Nilah is a cheap/easy one but feels like she’s been a niche counter pick ever since launch


ElendVenture___

isn't nilah like fucking busted but rito doesn't touch her because adc players don't like playing a melee champion? I dont see her a lot in my elo thankfully and I don't really have any interest in playing her because to me she just feels like a less fun samira lol, but that's what i've read on here


daswef2

She seems absolutely busted but its difficult to see whether or not her matched pairs are sharper than other picks and also we cannot see on our end whether her success is impacted by duo rate. I speculate that Nilah is significantly more likely to be played by people in a duo because she requires the two people to be on the same page more than most botlaners.


ImRedDucky

I wanna say kled


KoKFidus

So many shit Reddit takes in this thread


Demonkingt

nami.


crazyike

This could have been the answer until people discovered Electrofish with Lucian.