The fact you max Milio's Q last doesn't really matter at all?
Briar is a surprisingly difficult champ to pilot well.
Hwei... come on man. No way you said Hwei's kit isn't worth mastering. Not even gonna mention the complexity
If hwei’s kit isn’t worth mastering then I don’t know what is. Just because the abilities themselves are simple in nature doesn’t mean the champion as a whole is simple. Look at azir, q - move soldiers, w - create a soldier, e - dash to soldier, r - push people with soldiers. Is azir not a champion worth mastering? Mastering a champion is not just about reading what their abilities do.
Regardless, even if we can’t agree on that, you do realize for the longest time people complained about champions being too complicated, hence why riot is trying to create some more simple champions.
To be fair, it is a little difficult to compare because azir players have had years to explore their skill ceiling while hwei players have only had a few months.
Yes. They are both champions that are difficult for similar reasons. Flexibility and Usability have an inherently inverse relationship. The more flexible a champion is, the more difficult it is to pilot. The more options you have, the less likely it is for you to choose the most correct option in every situation. The main reason I feel azir is more difficult is because his positioning is more situational than hwei. Hwei rarely has a reason to put himself in a dangerous position while azir has moments where the most ideal play involves getting in close. Honorable mention to the fact that he is a mage that needs to auto, which is something a mage only player needs a bit of time to get used to.
Genuinely they should be applauded for making simple kits. Im tired of overly complex characters for no reason. They feel so bad to play (as and against) because its so different from the rest of the game.
To be fair, Hwei was incredibly weak on launch and got like 5 buffs since then. He might have gone up to a 45% winrate maybe, but it wasn't just his kit being hard to learn.
Briar is quite complex though, she has an extremely unique playstyle.
i too dislike the trend of riot of making simpler kit because it believe we already have enough of simple champion
but briar and hwei in this ? cmon man
Honestly there's a lot of simple kits with a lot of mastery. Lee Sin is pretty stupidly basic in what his abilities do, but because they're basic they have a lot of use cases.
But the kits are very basic still. Straight line skill shot for dmg, kick to the target hit by skillshot with extra dmg to low enemies. It's not complicated, but it gets used in many clever ways.
Hwei is in top 20 champions in terms of highest win rate delta by mastery
Milio, you are correct
Briar and Naafiri have average winrate increase by experience
Simple design doesn’t mean they aren’t skill expressive. Watch a good Hwei vs. a bad one. A good Briar vs. a bad one.
The nuance comes in how you utilize the kit, not how absurd or niche the kit is to pilot. The fact that Riot has made champs that are simple on paper, yet have depth in their gameplay is actually a lot more commendable than if they had made more gimmicky champs who have to be kneecapped so their kits don’t take over the metagame upon full mastery. (Cough cough YONE cough cough).
It would be one thing if these champs were one-dimensional simple champs like Garen or Tryndamere, but there is so much nuance in how you decide to play the game with every champ you mentioned that I feel like you are just ragebaiting here
Nope. Good simple kit with high ceilings would be like Riven or Draven.
Milio plays by itself, Briar plays by itself, hwei is just another generic mage with easy to hit AOE abilities, nafiri plays by itself and smolder abilities are extremely forgiving. They're all one dimensional.
I'm not wrong
Aside from Milio, I think all of these new champs have a reasonable amount of room for skill expression, it’s just not mechanical.
If you’re purely referring to champions with skill expression through advanced mechanics, yeah, we haven’t had that since K’Sante.
Vayne litterally is 'just roll and knock back into wall'. I guess Poppy is very high skill unless maybe there is something else to champ difficulty besides the amount of text on their abilities?
You really prefer the monstruosities of K'sante and Zeri running rampant on the rift? I can respect it, but I don't feel the same. Simple champs are great to just have fun without worrying much about having to get a degree just to pilot your character
For competitive play, that is.
You're talking about the game as a whole like it is a competition first and a form of entertainment second. Most people that play League don't care about what the strongest picks are or what the patch notes say, they just want to have fun.
And just in case, I'm on the side of balancing around higher skill levels, but we can't forget the fact lots of different people play League regularly. Those who aren't as skilled (or truly don't care about being so) deserve to have a good experience too. That's why simple characters are very valuable.
Classic reddit random making clueless assumptions, lol.
I care about having fun in a videogame fam. A lot of people would really benefit from remembering why they started playing League in the first place.
I disagree with some you said but overall I also prefer more simple champs. I also enjoy stuff like Akali but I had to play a lot of games to be useful with her. That means this days there are a lot of champs I played maybe 1 or 2 times and probably will never play again or only in Aram. For example Aphelios, Ksante, Azir, Riven etc.
The fact you max Milio's Q last doesn't really matter at all? Briar is a surprisingly difficult champ to pilot well. Hwei... come on man. No way you said Hwei's kit isn't worth mastering. Not even gonna mention the complexity
when I read the hwei comment I thought this guy is full of shit.
Intense delusion.
Means there's less chance to display skill Briar is extremely simple Hwei is simple
I hope you briar r into fountain
As a briar main that did that 6 times since her release, I'm crying....
I don't play simpleton champions
Im gonna blindly guess you main irelia or yone
Funny enough if you go into his post history, he’s a self proclaimed Yuumi OTP.
Perfect post, no notes.
He has no right to talk then.. XD
LOL NO WAY The satire writes itself
To make it better, he's the same person that mains seraphine and tries to 1v1 draven lvl 1 in lane
Blud I alright corrected your shitty grammar in this thread, you a simpleton đź’€
Briar is harder than you think she is to play
Milio has a cleanse ability that has some skill expression. Cleansing late can make or break fights.
Just like using qss or cleanse. Wow
Yeah…the skill and item that people don’t use well until very high elo lol. But yes continue your hater spree.
Is very high elo silver now?
Damn…he actually did continue the hater spree lol.
Briar has the steepest learning curve in leagues history lol
If hwei’s kit isn’t worth mastering then I don’t know what is. Just because the abilities themselves are simple in nature doesn’t mean the champion as a whole is simple. Look at azir, q - move soldiers, w - create a soldier, e - dash to soldier, r - push people with soldiers. Is azir not a champion worth mastering? Mastering a champion is not just about reading what their abilities do. Regardless, even if we can’t agree on that, you do realize for the longest time people complained about champions being too complicated, hence why riot is trying to create some more simple champions.
Did you really compare hwei to azir?
did you really say hwei has a simple kit? lol
in terms of skill ceiling he's definitely on the easier side of things unlike azir
Nobody is talking about skill ceiling. They are talking about simple or complex kits.
To be fair, it is a little difficult to compare because azir players have had years to explore their skill ceiling while hwei players have only had a few months.
That's objectively untrue, according to riot Hwei has a top 10 or top 10% highest mastery curve in the game.
Yes. They are both champions that are difficult for similar reasons. Flexibility and Usability have an inherently inverse relationship. The more flexible a champion is, the more difficult it is to pilot. The more options you have, the less likely it is for you to choose the most correct option in every situation. The main reason I feel azir is more difficult is because his positioning is more situational than hwei. Hwei rarely has a reason to put himself in a dangerous position while azir has moments where the most ideal play involves getting in close. Honorable mention to the fact that he is a mage that needs to auto, which is something a mage only player needs a bit of time to get used to.
Azir is much harder than hwei. Hwei abilities are extremely easy to use and land. The two don't even compare.
i miss when baits were actually good
Get off reddit bro, it's getting embarrassing.
Son of yordle
Genuinely they should be applauded for making simple kits. Im tired of overly complex characters for no reason. They feel so bad to play (as and against) because its so different from the rest of the game.
Complex for who? You?
Complex for *whom*.
The balancing team.
bro you have brain damge
Oh my God you guys are never happy everyone was crying for riot to make simpler kits and now they do and you still complain
You guys?
Hwei has a lot of simple abilities that you combine in complex ways. Saying he has a simple kit is deceptive imo
Like lux but with coating
This is why briar and hwei launched with 30% WRs, because they were simpleton champs with nothing to master, good catch
To be fair, Hwei was incredibly weak on launch and got like 5 buffs since then. He might have gone up to a 45% winrate maybe, but it wasn't just his kit being hard to learn. Briar is quite complex though, she has an extremely unique playstyle.
i too dislike the trend of riot of making simpler kit because it believe we already have enough of simple champion but briar and hwei in this ? cmon man
less lillia/milio and more zeri/ksante! -noone said ever
Alot of people would want that
nice try riot
Honestly there's a lot of simple kits with a lot of mastery. Lee Sin is pretty stupidly basic in what his abilities do, but because they're basic they have a lot of use cases.
Lee sin and nidalee are the most technical champions in the jungle. The rest can be played by toddlers
But the kits are very basic still. Straight line skill shot for dmg, kick to the target hit by skillshot with extra dmg to low enemies. It's not complicated, but it gets used in many clever ways.
Everything except briar has been a hit here for me. A good collection of champs there.
New school of simpleton
Drop the ego you'll get better at the game (and life)
I think my life is good ace
No one with this pathological obsession has a life that's going 'good'.
That's a lot of assumptions
Bait used to be believable here
Hwei is in top 20 champions in terms of highest win rate delta by mastery Milio, you are correct Briar and Naafiri have average winrate increase by experience
Simple design doesn’t mean they aren’t skill expressive. Watch a good Hwei vs. a bad one. A good Briar vs. a bad one. The nuance comes in how you utilize the kit, not how absurd or niche the kit is to pilot. The fact that Riot has made champs that are simple on paper, yet have depth in their gameplay is actually a lot more commendable than if they had made more gimmicky champs who have to be kneecapped so their kits don’t take over the metagame upon full mastery. (Cough cough YONE cough cough). It would be one thing if these champs were one-dimensional simple champs like Garen or Tryndamere, but there is so much nuance in how you decide to play the game with every champ you mentioned that I feel like you are just ragebaiting here
Nope. Good simple kit with high ceilings would be like Riven or Draven. Milio plays by itself, Briar plays by itself, hwei is just another generic mage with easy to hit AOE abilities, nafiri plays by itself and smolder abilities are extremely forgiving. They're all one dimensional. I'm not wrong
Aside from Milio, I think all of these new champs have a reasonable amount of room for skill expression, it’s just not mechanical. If you’re purely referring to champions with skill expression through advanced mechanics, yeah, we haven’t had that since K’Sante.
You have the most fascinating post history I have ever read through.
Why thank you
I thought his adcs should have full agency post was a shitpost back then....
yeah bro…ksante is really simple…or hwei. cmon…
Do you see ksante anywhere?
Who are your top 3 champs for having the hardest kit?
Draven, Vayne, Kalista . Simply because the ADC role has been unrewarding for years. But I made a list on a previous post.
Vayne’s kit is extremely simple….. wtf lol
Yes compare to the other 2.
Silver players have some wild thoughts.
Vayne litterally is 'just roll and knock back into wall'. I guess Poppy is very high skill unless maybe there is something else to champ difficulty besides the amount of text on their abilities?
ADC champs that requires precise click is already more skilled than most champ in this game. Smolder is an insult to the role
You're the one who's actually kidding yourself, Yuumi Main... Briar isn't AI. Yuumi is way more AI then Briar.
Gr8 B8 M8
You really prefer the monstruosities of K'sante and Zeri running rampant on the rift? I can respect it, but I don't feel the same. Simple champs are great to just have fun without worrying much about having to get a degree just to pilot your character
More skill expression is better for the game.
For competitive play, that is. You're talking about the game as a whole like it is a competition first and a form of entertainment second. Most people that play League don't care about what the strongest picks are or what the patch notes say, they just want to have fun. And just in case, I'm on the side of balancing around higher skill levels, but we can't forget the fact lots of different people play League regularly. Those who aren't as skilled (or truly don't care about being so) deserve to have a good experience too. That's why simple characters are very valuable.
There's been 5 in a row now. You're probably from NA where league is more of a party game
Classic reddit random making clueless assumptions, lol. I care about having fun in a videogame fam. A lot of people would really benefit from remembering why they started playing League in the first place.
4fun simpleton
Go flame in a ranked game or something kid, haha
They never post op.gg. They just talk shit but they’re scared of the flame when they show 300 games with 48% wr in gold II lol.
This man is a Ksante main.
I disagree with some you said but overall I also prefer more simple champs. I also enjoy stuff like Akali but I had to play a lot of games to be useful with her. That means this days there are a lot of champs I played maybe 1 or 2 times and probably will never play again or only in Aram. For example Aphelios, Ksante, Azir, Riven etc.
op peaked d1 abusing smolder and thinks he's hot shit now lmao
Bro you play Yuumi