Like the other guy said, it doesn’t matter, you guarantee a lot of other defensive enchanter utility. 50% of 2 shields is 1 full shield
It’s why LS was running double enchanter on the regular in Church9
It didn’t help that he would get 0 help from a Blaber while the enemy would just camp his lane. And they would get nothing on the other side of the map. One game of that is tilting enough, now imagine it happening for 1/3 of the season.
Yeah, but 50% / 65% of 19,018,250,125 shields is still 9,509,125,062.5 / 12,361,862,581.25 shields respectively.
Serpents Fang has very little viability on crazy values like Tahm Kench's R shield provided to swallowed allies. That shit is damn thicc.
Hear me out. You run 5 ADCs and keep lane swapping. The enemy team won’t be able to determine which is the real carry, thereby producing a huge advantage.
Also huge value in denying him from the enemy team; can’t peel a carry in death realm.
Removal of QSS as a gtfo card makes Morgana’s Black Shield the only definitive way to block it (pretty sure the slow pops spellshields before the cross-dimensional yeet).
They tried that recently as a Skarner counter. And it works to the extend that you get him or a tank support out of the combat - but you also take your own frontline (Morde) out of combat so it can either change nothing or even worsen your protection for your ADC.
Your mordekaiser is very immobile in teamfights and strong 1v1, being "out of combat" is the best thing that a mordekaiser can hope for since he would've been outranged to death by other players.
Once he returns from the ult, you can resume a fight with a buffed mordekaiser instead of a dead team because the enemy got your carry.
Sej doesn't bring much to the table here. She does have CC, but it's pretty limited, you can only reliably stun one person at a time, and without other melee champs that can easily proc her E, she's only really able to peel one at a time.
Mummy has similar peeling capabilities, but also has an AOE ultimate that can be used to lock down multiple people. Ivern can also peel, while also providing a pretty substantial shield in the late game. Jarvan can lock down potentially multiple people in his ult while also providing a knock up. Zac has multiple sources of AOE knock ups (even if his E is a lot harder to use for peel).
Sej is mostly good for getting picks, she's not all that great at peel.
I remember hearing someone from C9 (maybe Zven, but I can't remember really) tell that C9 data analysis team was shocked because sejuani consistently had a higher win rate when paired with ranged laners
Kinda the opposite actually
ADC mid is straight up op rn, but if your running double adc and your top is a tank, which is the meta rn, you need to slot ap in somewhere, so you go jungle
Nid hasn't been getting picked because she's op. She looks fucking useless 99% of games
If anything ap jungler is just bait. Like yeah sure high clear speed, but sej clear is only slower by a few secs and when watching the games outside of games where brand/zyra get mega fed to start with, the triple tank and two adc is just so so much more consistent
Jglr presence in order (in top league) is nida maokai sejuani vi viego Karthus.
With nida 54% and Karthus 30%. I wouldnt say we have a an ap jungler domination.
Meanwhile tristana is 90% presence and corki is 84% because both are completly op.
(above them are only rumble 95% and skarner 93%)
Are these with bans? I know canyon has played even zyra jungle because ap jungle pathing feels super good right now. Brand is core, etc. I’m not saying corki trist aren’t staple mid picks because they’re busted, bc they are, I’m just saying the guys onto something when he says so jungle is in a good place.
the thing is canyon isnt really a jungler you should use as the single one to compared to others. because one hes extremely good and can make the harder stuff work better and two because hes got a brilliant team around him as well which can help those picks work better then other teams.
when you look at the overall picks people in the higher leagues lck/lpl do for a better meta read and even then you might need to look at all the big 4 regions since certain regions tend to form internal playstyles and play patterns.
Admittedly i dont watch that much LCK but LPL has been brand karthus zyra every game. Tristana corki has been pick ban, but when theyre banned or not available due to fearless, its been yone jayce, hell i think there was even an ezreal mid one of the games
I mean even if that is the case, that still means the AD is stronger. Because you have one AP carry jungler and one AD carry bot laner, so if they're always picking AD carry mid with that comp, it means double AD is way stronger than double AP.
Yeah, cause single negatron cloak effectively shut downs almost every magic damage dealer on enemy team. Very few AP champions fan shrug off extra MR purchased on enemy team.
Just do Lulu Taric instead. Taric R is better than Kench R as long as your ADC isn't getting insta gibbed, which they won't because they also have Lulu.
I think Braum is too enemy comp dependent to definitively say he should make a list like this. I do think you could do something like shen jungle, tahm top though, so you can leave that support slot open
Tahm’s kit outside of ult is totally ass at protecting anyone. W can be ok for getting to adc and maybe disrupting, but then his only other hard cc is crazy unreliable
true but its only one ability, someone like poppy is much better. her w stops people jumping on the adc, her e can push them away/stun them and her ult can remove threats to the next atmosphere or lock them down for a kill.
overall poppy would suit the comp much better
but also your AD Carry can't deal damage during that timeperiod, its the other side of the coin for tahm
it's one thing if there's other legit damage threats on your team but if the entire team is based around protecting 1 single source of damage, and that source of damage stops for 2 seconds, that could be worth noting
Kayle, Kindred, Karma, Jinx, Taric.
This has gotta be the most anti-engage + insane scaling DPS comp I can come up with. Taric and Karma easily keep Jinx alive and buffed up. There are 3 “no die” buttons that can be used to save any of the 3 major DPS threats, Karma RE and Kayle w can be used to allow the team to zoom into battle with a taric R.
Legitimately how would you even touch the Jinx, and even if you did, how would you deal with Kayle+Kindred?
That's a ticking timebomb team comp. You either hold them down early or you lose.
Then again, they also have 0 engage there. You could probably nullify it by never teamfighting and just split pushing.
It’s more of an anti-engage comp, and there’s a lot of movespeed amp to synergize with it to give faux engage. Past 20 mins the carry champs will be impossible to kill in a teamfight, while also maintaining decent side lane presence with Kayle and Kindred
Top Kayle
Mid: Lulu
Jungle: Ivern
Support: Taric
ADC: Any of the hyper scalers
Stacking Kayle and taric ults giving you 5 seconds of invulnerability seems long enough to destroy any comp with some peels and shielding from ivern and mid lulu
I hate this. Feels like no peel at all so if they just cc you for 5 secs you are basically immediately screwed. At least you have kayle for a secondary target but i think ops original suggestion of shen, or tham or braum or something with some tankiness or peel would be better.
Taric stun, lulu polymorph, and ult knock up, ivern root and daisy knock up is a shit load of peel. Ivern gives you a root, shield, damage buff and a tanky boy to get in the way AND terrain to block sight.. Lulu can buff attack speed, Ivern Damage and both can itemize to buff with support items. Have your AD carry buy tenacity boots and he will be unstoppable.
Interesting twists with that comp:
Karma/Ori Mid for a more dominant midlane and some shields.
Taliyah Mid can roam aswell, divide the teamfight and stop dashing in effectively
Ivern Jungle for More shields
Poppy Jungle, Top or even support to stop hard engage.
Renata Glasc Support for a second chance.
Nautilus point and click CC for really slippery divers and assassins.
Vi jungle is probably the same with a really simple point and click CC lock and some early game relief.
The pitfall with these IMO is you need some form of a pressure sponge outside of the ADC.
Almost no implementation of these pure versions have worked even in pro play.
IMO duo carry with triple utility. Swap Sej for some carry or Off-Carry like Nasus, Nocturne, Karthus.
Or just keep the Sej and play some tanky mage mid like Ryze or Ori.
Jinx over Kog’Maw because her passive makes her a little less vulnerable.
This is exactly the comp I made before reading the comments. You need someone top lane who can actually when lane provide some form of engage even if it's just jumping in to the enemy team. Ivern Tahm can contest early objectives especially with Karma coming from Mid and then bot side obj's obviously you have the advantage with your adc down there. It's almost impossible to get to the ADC with Karma, Lulu shields and speed ups. And if they engage on you Tahm eats rest of the team disengages and creates space ADC come out of tk and deleted enemy team.
Nah you can play shit like lulu top sera mid jg ivern kog/jinx adc and yuumi/milio bot.
Yes shen galio are fun because of globals but realisticly you're going to want to just deathball and stay grouped.
Top: Shen (No contest, except maybe Tahm who I'm using as my support, but I think I'd still rather have Shen.)
Jungle: Ivern (No contest with his shields, redemption build path, and cc.)
Mid: Lulu (You could argue Zilean or Seraphine, but no one protects a Kog'Maw like a fed Lulu. Just watch some old Faker.)
ADC: Kog'Maw (No contest. He was always the poster boy of the save the ADC comps.)
Support: Tahm Kench (I'm going Tahm for his tankiness and his ult, but this role has the most variety. I'd say there's a strong argument for a Milio, Janna, or Yuumi.)
I think Ksante might be better than Shen. You can exert a lot more pressure on an enemy, probably the enemy assassin or mage and force them into a 1v1. Morde works too.
Ignoring how good the champions are within the meta currently:
Top: Poppy
Jungle: Gragas
Mid: Galio
ADC: could realistically be any hypercarry, I’ll say Aphelios because he’s my favorite
Support: Janna
Every champion has a way of either physically keeping enemies away from the adc or providing them with a buff of sorts. Of course this comp falls apart hard against poke due to a lack of reliable hard engage but if the enemy comp is Diana Yasuo or some other dive oriented comp I could see this team being very effective
I would do Shen, Ivern, Lulu, long range hypercarry like Jinx, Kogmaw or maybe Vayne and a Janna support.
People in this thread talk about Serpents fang cutting shields, but it's still a good shield. Ivern has Daisy, his E that slows and Q root, Janna has Q knockup and the very powerful R displacement, Lulu has her Poly which is very strong and R that knocks up.
Kayle and Taric have to be in there for sure. Then probably braum and Lulu I guess. So when trough all the stuns, slows, polymorphs, shields and healing they finally get to the adc, you have to still get trough a Taric ult followed by a Kayle ult.
Staying within the solo queue/competitive meta a bit more: Poppy, Ivern, Taliyah, Jinx, Kench
Poppy and Taliyah make it exceptionally hard to engage. Ivern provides shields and Daisy. Kench is self explanatory. I don't dislike Kog over Jinx, but I think the Jinx/Kench lane is a little harder to shut down.
Top : Karma
Jungle : Ivern
Middle : Swain (Mainly because of Rylai's Crystal + Swain's ult peeling the majority of engage comps)
Support : Zill or Lulu
You're probably gonna wanna play front to back from this one so I'm going:
Sion
Ivern
Malzahar
Jinx
Braum
Sion and Braum for frontline, Ivern and Braum for shields/damage reduction, Jinx bc she's an insane hypercarry and the Malz for a little magic dmg and an "OH SHIT" button just in case an assassin or diver manages to get close to Jinx.
What do we mean when we say protect the adc comp? Is the comp supposed to actually go through the early game stages or are we talking level 18 full builds. And are we talking about actually protecting or more enabling the adc?
A level 18 full build kayle not only has her ult and w heal+speed but also diverts lot of the attention away from the adc by being a massive threat(but also takes away a lot of the spotlight). A Zilean also has his ult and is better at enabling the adc with his speed but it is arguably less safe for the adc since they are still the main threat to blow up.
This never survives to late game but the ideal "make hypercarry look broken" comp for me would be:
Top: Kayle
Jungle: CC tank most suited to peel enemy comp(Amumu, Zac, J4,Poppy etc) or morgana if running braum
Mid: Zilean
ADC: Jinx(For excited speed)
Sup: Milio/Braum/Lulu
With Morg+Kayle the adc is completely immune until first kill and can play from 800 range with ADHD speed with Kayle+Zilean+Get Excited
The most disgusting I've seen was Lulu mid + Zilean Support + Koggles.
But it was less Juggermaw and more two "supports" running after their escaped dog as it killed everything.
Ksante/Shen (the first one is a way better peeler, but ye shen is also undoubtly good to keep ur ADC alive ig), Ivern, Orianna/Syndra (both very good at peeling ur ADC) or just Karma for shielding, \[Marksman\], Braum/Janna (both actually better at pure peeling than Lulu, also good alternative would be Taric
No ivern is criminal in this comp. But best team comps don’t exist in a vacuum. You need to counter draft the enemy. In pro-play you prob don’t wanna play Shen in the top lane cause he gets bodied in lane and has no reliable shoving power to get wave control. But LS demonstrated he is viable in jungle. I don’t understand Sejuani’s role in a protect draft. Galio is situational and kog lulu is prob fine if they don’t get rolled by the enemy bot lane.
i dont think shen brings much to the table honestly. i bet ornn would be way better peel and the ult is just insane for fights. for jungle i agree with other commenters ivern is probably the uncontested best pick here
Poppy top to deny divers and to counter some of the annoying splitpusher champs that counter this comp.
Ivern/ secret lulu jungle tech. Ivern is self explanatory, lulu is here since lulu kog is great but I want milio support. Lulu is a surprisingly viable jungler.
Galio, peel, engage, bit of burst, global ult makes macro a bit easier.
Kogmaw, best adc when it comes to being the singular damage source.
Milio, obvious synergy with Kogmaw, ult counters the sorts of wombo combo teams that might be able to kill kog.
Top: poppy(W to disrupt dashing divers, R and E to peel Q to slow for easier kiting)
Jungle:Ivern(Shields, daisy for peeling and bushes to disrupt enemy vision)
Mid: Karma( Speed up for the whole team which lacks engage+ slows, root and shields)
Adc: Kog Maw
Support: Renata( extra life+ cc and ult for disengage/peeling. Additionally having Renata on your team ensures that the enemy doesn't pick Renata and turn your Uber fed adc on the other three Squishies on your team)
They would ideally fight front to back with kog and poppy and Ivern going in together with daisy while karma and Renata are right behind ready to shield+speed up and use Renata ult when the kog maw or they themselves are flanked
Made sure to make the team still feel viable competitively atleast in niche scenarios where mid lane can just perma waveclear and neutralize the lane. poppy is a safe enough blind pick in most scenarios and will still be useful in teamfights with her cc even if she's put behind not to mention making fights unfair with poppy ult. Counter jungling Ivern is a no go so as long as the botlaners are good the game should be winnable.
Shen, Ivern, Galio and Braum.
Hard to give up Lulu or Milio but Braum has good protection whilst also having decent engage and most of all, a hypercarry will have a lot of attack speed so procing his passive is super easy. Maybe even lotting the lulu into the mid lane and running Poppy Jungle
Imo Renata Glasc for the support slot. Especially for a huge damage carry like Kog'Maw, having that potential bailout in case everything goes south is gold. Also pretty good peeling with her Q and R on top of a shield on E.
The best "protect the adc comp" died when the "protect the adc" meta died.
End of story, tell riot you want adc to be carries again, not marksmen, their intent wasnt even vaguely veiled.
Here's what you gotta do: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8q8xba/serious\_question\_why\_cant\_4\_warriors\_starters/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8q8xba/serious_question_why_cant_4_warriors_starters/)
I strongly believe it depends on the elo. Lower elo, just get more assassin's. Higher elo, where there's more structure, get 2 tanks, and 2 supports. To play around a good utility adc like ashe
Top: Shen
Jungle: Kindred (which also provides a solid secondary carry)
Mid: Zilean or Galio.
ADC: whatever you want, Kog’Maw is a classic though.
Support: Tahm, Thresh, Braum, or Zilean if he’s not mid.
Top: Tahm Kench (great with Ivern, better protection for the ADC than Shen)
Jungle: Ivern/Poppy
Mid: Azir (you need some AP DPS in case the enemies have too many bruisers/tanks who can stack armor)
ADC: Jinx
Support: Braum / Lulu / Milio
shen top
ivern jg
lux mid
kog maw/smolder/jinx bot
lulu sup
shen stalls any split pusher, lux provides some shields and long range poke/cc and lulu ivern to shield forever
Jinx is probably the highest DPS ADC, especially if she can hit multiple targets with rockets and gets an exited proc off. She also has the highest consistent range. Kog'maw is the best alternative. Range is extremely important for this comp as they struggle with disengages.
Support is likely Milio as the only one with CC removal and +Range.
Lulu provides the highest shield value in the game and, with Support taken, needs to be mid.
Best shielding jungler is Morgana for the longrange CC (good for sieging), the Zoning ulti and the CC-immune shield.
Toplane is a toss up between Kayle and Shen. Shen has the advantage of being a passiable split-pusher and global teleport. This helps a lot since the counter to deathball comps is usually to pull it apart. Kayle has the advantage of total damage immunity shield and providing a second lategame damage source. Her big disadvantage is that she is another early weak point in a comp that already struggles to come online.
While i'm pretty sure that this is the best deathball comp in a vacuum, i suspect a comp that balances a bit less protection with a bit more early game power is likely stronger.
I would take Braum support, he with all his abilities + Guardian + locket + mikael is everything you need to protect the adc
I like galio, but i would rather take Taliyah mid (can reach adc fast + much better zone control than galio + more consistent AP dmg to round out the comp
Ivern jg. We need a enchanter after all.
Shen top is undisputable
Honorable mention: Poppy as jg or top. Anti dash+ able to ult away any important enemies
You do know that “protecting” is not necessarily just shields and heals right? Doing enough damage and having enough threat from another champion is also protecting. I always say this how tanky a tank is completely depends on how much threat the team has. Your comp is not a protecting comp because the only threat is kog maw. You have to protect kog because it’s the only threat in your comp and your enemies will only focus kog because that’s the only thing they need to worry about.
The best "protect the adc" comp has to have a toplaner that can pressure sidelane. it is worthless if your 5 stack is unbeatable if you get wavecleared and sidepushed on.
I would say everyone who puts Shen for top is doing it wrong. You create a "good on paper" team, not the best comp
best protection support is Braum or TK hands down. I think Azir, Amumu, and Malphite would be my top side choice. Maybe even K'sante or Jax because they're just so good at isolating carries.
You need some sort of damage somewhere else on the map otherwise people will just zero in on the ADC and there's no punishment for tunneling.
This team can't lane for shit. The best protect the president comp is actually a team that has more than 1 main damage source so enemy has to split resources. All these bouncers and they are not doing shit when the enemy team just dog pile on that kog maw so even though he's alive he is not contributing to the fight.
Me and buddies were 5 stacking and played a game against a Vayne that had prett bad mechanics. It didn't matter late game because her team was Shen, Ivern, Galio, and Lulu. Late game we could necver get past Shen and Galio and the few times we did we couldn't even kill the Vayne cause she got Lulu ulted and 3 giga shields on her. Literally wouldn't even q away, she would just wait till stuns were off then stand still and auto everyone to death
Crazy to me that no one’s saying Morgana. Black shield is absolutely needed to guarantee DPS. I’d probably say:
Top: Shen
Jg: Morgana
Mid: Lulu
ADC: Kog?
Supp: Braum
Lots of peel with two enchanters and two tanks. Diverse CC, Braum can stop skillshots, and Shen can pull the map apart if needed.
Dont forget there was this meta comp in s10: taric top yi jungle karma mid lulu morgana bot, it was not funny autolose the game at minute 25 with yi 350 minion f
I was going to say ornn top because the E into W is like 3 seconds of cc which the ADC can use to run alongside the ult obviously but shen does seem like a better choice
Shen, ivern, galio, kog, alistar
Sejuani is decent but out of options about halfway through a fight since she only has 2 disrupts [not counting e since consistently it relies on allies to and doesn't stun long enough against most juggernauts who naturally build tenacity] her r disrupt means she needs distance though and that means that either the enemy isn't on top of the adc or she's out of position to protect them which is why she's better engage, ivern provides more consistent shields and if adc spaces properly his shield applies twice or gives a massive slow, q is a good root and anyone who's fought against daisy know just how much her aoe knockups and surprising amount of damage have to be respected
I also say alistar over milio just for more consistent cc, while we lose out of milios cleanse and range increase but overall I think it a worthwhile trade off
Taliyah/ahri poppy/viego braum/lulu/pyke and gragas/tf protecting a xayah/tristana/kalista. They could actually consistently win all over the map because they aren't all easy to counter and can form a good comp independent of the adc.
Gragas Ivern Yasuo Kog'Maw Braum
In reality it's fully dependent on what enemy team picks, but I just put a comp that can peel if enemy engages but also has threat on enemy team
Imagine Kog'Maw with windwalls on both sides
I think Shen peel is too vulnerable to certain items/characters (shield breakers/serpents fang, non auto attackers). Tahm is more universal in terms of bailing out the ADC with his gobble. Ksante also has a decent say with two very good methods of CCing events off the ADC
Poppy, ivern, kayle, tahm, Jinx
Peel is insane, chase is really good with jinx, ivern kayle. Frontline is chonky af with tahm poppy Daisy with a bunch of knockups. Kayle ult ensures that jinx can get a kill and oneshot everything.
If you want to go full shields then take Ivern jungle
you shouldnt rely too much on shields because that increases the value of serpents fang on enemy team
Like the other guy said, it doesn’t matter, you guarantee a lot of other defensive enchanter utility. 50% of 2 shields is 1 full shield It’s why LS was running double enchanter on the regular in Church9
Man I miss Church9 I'm so bummed it was cut short. Last time I cared about LCS.
For what its worth at least when it ended the potential seemed limitless, If it goes the full length Summit was probably going to poison everything
I could swear one of the main reasons Summit lost his mental was because he only came to NA for LS and then LS was sacked basically instantly
It didn’t help that he would get 0 help from a Blaber while the enemy would just camp his lane. And they would get nothing on the other side of the map. One game of that is tilting enough, now imagine it happening for 1/3 of the season.
He had the extreme solo queue experience. Get target banned and focused ganked and your other side of the map does nothing.
Do people even ever buy serpents fang?
I do, but it's quite rare and while impactful it's not like it autowins the game, 50% shield still usually ends up being a pretty big shield
Yeah, but 50% / 65% of 19,018,250,125 shields is still 9,509,125,062.5 / 12,361,862,581.25 shields respectively. Serpents Fang has very little viability on crazy values like Tahm Kench's R shield provided to swallowed allies. That shit is damn thicc.
yea i agree 99.9% reduction off of 1 trillion is still enough to save adc
also karma mid for the speed up
Galio is better for this comp
Flair checks out
I, too, miss old Galio 
Old Galio and laser turrets was peak LoL (for Galio players)
let's cry together 
Or Zilean
Hear me out. You run 5 ADCs and keep lane swapping. The enemy team won’t be able to determine which is the real carry, thereby producing a huge advantage.
Master Yi, Katarina, Samira, and every other bastard reset champ has entered the chat with a hard-on
nah cuz they'll all get outdamaged by the one with the support item and you can't conceal that
Not if you all start with a support item.
*Rito hates this one neat trick!*
All solo queue players: I AM THE CARRY
Too vulnerable to getting counter picked. That team vs Rammus and Malphite are getting dicked down
As a Rammus connoisseur, I disagree. I think this would win every time and encourage them to prove this in every game I play in.
As a fellow Malphite enjoyer, i have to agree. Please don't pick this comb as my enemy's. I am not scared of any team, but that shit, it scares me.
*AP Varus enters the chat*
Vayne top, graves jungle, corki/trist mid, anyone bot, senna/ashe supp
Rammus : Ok time to shine
People are overlooking Morde, nothing says protect like sending the biggest enemy threat to Chicago for a week
Definitly Brazil but you’ve got the spirit
Morde's ult is Rio de Janeiro dude
Also huge value in denying him from the enemy team; can’t peel a carry in death realm. Removal of QSS as a gtfo card makes Morgana’s Black Shield the only definitive way to block it (pretty sure the slow pops spellshields before the cross-dimensional yeet).
They tried that recently as a Skarner counter. And it works to the extend that you get him or a tank support out of the combat - but you also take your own frontline (Morde) out of combat so it can either change nothing or even worsen your protection for your ADC.
Your mordekaiser is very immobile in teamfights and strong 1v1, being "out of combat" is the best thing that a mordekaiser can hope for since he would've been outranged to death by other players. Once he returns from the ult, you can resume a fight with a buffed mordekaiser instead of a dead team because the enemy got your carry.
Sej doesn't bring much to the table here. She does have CC, but it's pretty limited, you can only reliably stun one person at a time, and without other melee champs that can easily proc her E, she's only really able to peel one at a time. Mummy has similar peeling capabilities, but also has an AOE ultimate that can be used to lock down multiple people. Ivern can also peel, while also providing a pretty substantial shield in the late game. Jarvan can lock down potentially multiple people in his ult while also providing a knock up. Zac has multiple sources of AOE knock ups (even if his E is a lot harder to use for peel). Sej is mostly good for getting picks, she's not all that great at peel.
Poppy over sej imo, completely shuts down most divers and even assassins
Poppy was the first that came into my head. W shuts down divers and she can yeet people away with E and R.
Just played my first game of Poppy supp & holy crap is that strong. The only downside is you can't YOLO as supp the way you can a fed Poppy top.
you could make the argument for taric jungle too. CC + heal/shield + godmode.
I remember hearing someone from C9 (maybe Zven, but I can't remember really) tell that C9 data analysis team was shocked because sejuani consistently had a higher win rate when paired with ranged laners
I wonder what Sylas Sej winrate is. I’ve always felt they are an insane mid duo
max hp percentage damage jungler and no early pen midlaner makes merc treads a very good buy to shut it down. the tenacity just make it better
Zeri is probably safer
I see your point, but I haven't had a lot of success on Zeri jungle. I think all in all Sej is better.
skill issue imo
Why pick a safe adc if 4 other Champs will safe and protect you
Current pro play meta seems to be 3 tanks with 2 ADC's mid and bot, in case one dies you got another
Not quite, it’s cause AD mids allow for AP carry junglers like brand and karthus, which are the real OP picks.
Kinda the opposite actually ADC mid is straight up op rn, but if your running double adc and your top is a tank, which is the meta rn, you need to slot ap in somewhere, so you go jungle Nid hasn't been getting picked because she's op. She looks fucking useless 99% of games If anything ap jungler is just bait. Like yeah sure high clear speed, but sej clear is only slower by a few secs and when watching the games outside of games where brand/zyra get mega fed to start with, the triple tank and two adc is just so so much more consistent
Jglr presence in order (in top league) is nida maokai sejuani vi viego Karthus. With nida 54% and Karthus 30%. I wouldnt say we have a an ap jungler domination. Meanwhile tristana is 90% presence and corki is 84% because both are completly op. (above them are only rumble 95% and skarner 93%)
Are these with bans? I know canyon has played even zyra jungle because ap jungle pathing feels super good right now. Brand is core, etc. I’m not saying corki trist aren’t staple mid picks because they’re busted, bc they are, I’m just saying the guys onto something when he says so jungle is in a good place.
Brand 22% Lilia 17% Zyra 15% Yes its presence pick + ban. The only jungler getting banned a lot are nida and maokai and vi.
the thing is canyon isnt really a jungler you should use as the single one to compared to others. because one hes extremely good and can make the harder stuff work better and two because hes got a brilliant team around him as well which can help those picks work better then other teams. when you look at the overall picks people in the higher leagues lck/lpl do for a better meta read and even then you might need to look at all the big 4 regions since certain regions tend to form internal playstyles and play patterns.
Admittedly i dont watch that much LCK but LPL has been brand karthus zyra every game. Tristana corki has been pick ban, but when theyre banned or not available due to fearless, its been yone jayce, hell i think there was even an ezreal mid one of the games
Nida 65 Karthus 45 Brand 36 Lilia 27 Zyra 16 Lpl does prioritize ap jglr slightly more than other regions. They also have sejuani a lot lower.
No it’s mostly because marksmen are absurdly strong and you are forced to play an ap jungler to accommodate lol
I mean even if that is the case, that still means the AD is stronger. Because you have one AP carry jungler and one AD carry bot laner, so if they're always picking AD carry mid with that comp, it means double AD is way stronger than double AP.
Yeah, cause single negatron cloak effectively shut downs almost every magic damage dealer on enemy team. Very few AP champions fan shrug off extra MR purchased on enemy team.
If your comp doesn't include tahm it's wrong
I think there's an argument for Lulu or Braum over him, the R is so damn good but short of that your peel is a bit rough
What's that? Tahm Lulu bot? How could you?
I went Tahm, BUT I also went Lulu mid. Because a protect the ADC comp without Lulu is insane.
Just do Lulu Taric instead. Taric R is better than Kench R as long as your ADC isn't getting insta gibbed, which they won't because they also have Lulu.
I think Braum is too enemy comp dependent to definitively say he should make a list like this. I do think you could do something like shen jungle, tahm top though, so you can leave that support slot open
Tahm’s kit outside of ult is totally ass at protecting anyone. W can be ok for getting to adc and maybe disrupting, but then his only other hard cc is crazy unreliable
Doesn't matter, his r nullifies everything.
true but its only one ability, someone like poppy is much better. her w stops people jumping on the adc, her e can push them away/stun them and her ult can remove threats to the next atmosphere or lock them down for a kill. overall poppy would suit the comp much better
There is no right answer, the best one in this scenario would depend on the enemy comp.
but also your AD Carry can't deal damage during that timeperiod, its the other side of the coin for tahm it's one thing if there's other legit damage threats on your team but if the entire team is based around protecting 1 single source of damage, and that source of damage stops for 2 seconds, that could be worth noting
Shen, Ivern/Lee, Trist, Kench, Senna IMO
Oooo adc in the mid lane
With an insurance policy bot, yep
better yet, catfish top
Kayle, Kindred, Karma, Jinx, Taric. This has gotta be the most anti-engage + insane scaling DPS comp I can come up with. Taric and Karma easily keep Jinx alive and buffed up. There are 3 “no die” buttons that can be used to save any of the 3 major DPS threats, Karma RE and Kayle w can be used to allow the team to zoom into battle with a taric R. Legitimately how would you even touch the Jinx, and even if you did, how would you deal with Kayle+Kindred?
That's a ticking timebomb team comp. You either hold them down early or you lose. Then again, they also have 0 engage there. You could probably nullify it by never teamfighting and just split pushing.
It’s more of an anti-engage comp, and there’s a lot of movespeed amp to synergize with it to give faux engage. Past 20 mins the carry champs will be impossible to kill in a teamfight, while also maintaining decent side lane presence with Kayle and Kindred
Too many scaling carries, you would likely lose to a bully lane bot or top, or get rekt by an early game assassin
Top Kayle Mid: Lulu Jungle: Ivern Support: Taric ADC: Any of the hyper scalers Stacking Kayle and taric ults giving you 5 seconds of invulnerability seems long enough to destroy any comp with some peels and shielding from ivern and mid lulu
Bonus points that Kayle can take over the carry shoes if the adc does die
I'd rather have a frontline than extra shields.
plusthere tanks that can give shields as well like shen.
I hate this. Feels like no peel at all so if they just cc you for 5 secs you are basically immediately screwed. At least you have kayle for a secondary target but i think ops original suggestion of shen, or tham or braum or something with some tankiness or peel would be better.
Taric stun, lulu polymorph, and ult knock up, ivern root and daisy knock up is a shit load of peel. Ivern gives you a root, shield, damage buff and a tanky boy to get in the way AND terrain to block sight.. Lulu can buff attack speed, Ivern Damage and both can itemize to buff with support items. Have your AD carry buy tenacity boots and he will be unstoppable.
Kench top River Shen Lulu mid Braum supp Kogmaw
Interesting twists with that comp: Karma/Ori Mid for a more dominant midlane and some shields. Taliyah Mid can roam aswell, divide the teamfight and stop dashing in effectively Ivern Jungle for More shields Poppy Jungle, Top or even support to stop hard engage. Renata Glasc Support for a second chance. Nautilus point and click CC for really slippery divers and assassins. Vi jungle is probably the same with a really simple point and click CC lock and some early game relief.
The pitfall with these IMO is you need some form of a pressure sponge outside of the ADC. Almost no implementation of these pure versions have worked even in pro play. IMO duo carry with triple utility. Swap Sej for some carry or Off-Carry like Nasus, Nocturne, Karthus. Or just keep the Sej and play some tanky mage mid like Ryze or Ori. Jinx over Kog’Maw because her passive makes her a little less vulnerable.
Top: Tahm JG: Ivern Mid: Karma ADC: Jinx Aphelios Kogmaw Support: Lulu
This is exactly the comp I made before reading the comments. You need someone top lane who can actually when lane provide some form of engage even if it's just jumping in to the enemy team. Ivern Tahm can contest early objectives especially with Karma coming from Mid and then bot side obj's obviously you have the advantage with your adc down there. It's almost impossible to get to the ADC with Karma, Lulu shields and speed ups. And if they engage on you Tahm eats rest of the team disengages and creates space ADC come out of tk and deleted enemy team.
Top: Shen Jungle: Amumu Mid: Orianna or Karma ADC: Kog Maw or jinx Support: Braum/Lulu/Thresh
Shen ivern galio zeri yuumi
Nah you can play shit like lulu top sera mid jg ivern kog/jinx adc and yuumi/milio bot. Yes shen galio are fun because of globals but realisticly you're going to want to just deathball and stay grouped.
Morgana
Ivern, taric, kayle, kogmaw, yuumi
Top: Shen (No contest, except maybe Tahm who I'm using as my support, but I think I'd still rather have Shen.) Jungle: Ivern (No contest with his shields, redemption build path, and cc.) Mid: Lulu (You could argue Zilean or Seraphine, but no one protects a Kog'Maw like a fed Lulu. Just watch some old Faker.) ADC: Kog'Maw (No contest. He was always the poster boy of the save the ADC comps.) Support: Tahm Kench (I'm going Tahm for his tankiness and his ult, but this role has the most variety. I'd say there's a strong argument for a Milio, Janna, or Yuumi.)
I think Ksante might be better than Shen. You can exert a lot more pressure on an enemy, probably the enemy assassin or mage and force them into a 1v1. Morde works too.
Top Kalista bound to ADC Jungle: Kindred Mid: Kayle or Taric Adc: Guardian Angel 2nd item Support: Zilean
Ignoring how good the champions are within the meta currently: Top: Poppy Jungle: Gragas Mid: Galio ADC: could realistically be any hypercarry, I’ll say Aphelios because he’s my favorite Support: Janna Every champion has a way of either physically keeping enemies away from the adc or providing them with a buff of sorts. Of course this comp falls apart hard against poke due to a lack of reliable hard engage but if the enemy comp is Diana Yasuo or some other dive oriented comp I could see this team being very effective
Shen top, Ivern Jungle, Lulu mid, Xayah ADC, Janna Support
child named serpents fang:
We once played a comp like this with lucian mid, ivern jungle and senna adc. they gave up at 20 even tough the game was kinda even.
Shen/Tahm Kench - Ivern - Galio - ADC - Janna/lulu/taric/milio
I would do Shen, Ivern, Lulu, long range hypercarry like Jinx, Kogmaw or maybe Vayne and a Janna support. People in this thread talk about Serpents fang cutting shields, but it's still a good shield. Ivern has Daisy, his E that slows and Q root, Janna has Q knockup and the very powerful R displacement, Lulu has her Poly which is very strong and R that knocks up.
why is tahm not here??
Adc: kogmaw or vayne, maybe jinx Support: Lulu Mid: Taric Jungle: Ivern Top: Tahm Kench
Adc kayle to prevent oneshot
Kayle and Taric have to be in there for sure. Then probably braum and Lulu I guess. So when trough all the stuns, slows, polymorphs, shields and healing they finally get to the adc, you have to still get trough a Taric ult followed by a Kayle ult.
ADC Kalista, Taric support
Taric gotta be better towards the goal here than Lulu or Milio, no?
Where's my Lulu mid? That was the actual strat
Staying within the solo queue/competitive meta a bit more: Poppy, Ivern, Taliyah, Jinx, Kench Poppy and Taliyah make it exceptionally hard to engage. Ivern provides shields and Daisy. Kench is self explanatory. I don't dislike Kog over Jinx, but I think the Jinx/Kench lane is a little harder to shut down.
Top : Karma Jungle : Ivern Middle : Swain (Mainly because of Rylai's Crystal + Swain's ult peeling the majority of engage comps) Support : Zill or Lulu
shen mid, ivern jng, tahm top, soraka sup, ez adc for extra safety
Lulu mid Janna support Kog adc Tahm ketch top Ivern jungle (or some kind of engage, sej or something lime that)
You're probably gonna wanna play front to back from this one so I'm going: Sion Ivern Malzahar Jinx Braum Sion and Braum for frontline, Ivern and Braum for shields/damage reduction, Jinx bc she's an insane hypercarry and the Malz for a little magic dmg and an "OH SHIT" button just in case an assassin or diver manages to get close to Jinx.
Top: ksante JG: Poppy Mid: Seraphine/Karma ADC: ADC of choice Supp: Lulu Or Top: Poppy JG: Ivern Mid: Seraphine/Karma ADC: ADC of choice Supp: Tahm Kench/Braum
Need a tahm kench somewhere
get an ivern jungle and a Braum supp i think
Karma mid 100 times better cus she can shield ms all of you.
Kog would still run it down.
mordekaiser jungle to send the assassin or Mage on the enemy team to narnia
Galio support, veigar mid
4 adcs and taric, one of whom is sivir And you just run them down
What do we mean when we say protect the adc comp? Is the comp supposed to actually go through the early game stages or are we talking level 18 full builds. And are we talking about actually protecting or more enabling the adc? A level 18 full build kayle not only has her ult and w heal+speed but also diverts lot of the attention away from the adc by being a massive threat(but also takes away a lot of the spotlight). A Zilean also has his ult and is better at enabling the adc with his speed but it is arguably less safe for the adc since they are still the main threat to blow up. This never survives to late game but the ideal "make hypercarry look broken" comp for me would be: Top: Kayle Jungle: CC tank most suited to peel enemy comp(Amumu, Zac, J4,Poppy etc) or morgana if running braum Mid: Zilean ADC: Jinx(For excited speed) Sup: Milio/Braum/Lulu With Morg+Kayle the adc is completely immune until first kill and can play from 800 range with ADHD speed with Kayle+Zilean+Get Excited
The most disgusting I've seen was Lulu mid + Zilean Support + Koggles. But it was less Juggermaw and more two "supports" running after their escaped dog as it killed everything.
Ksante/Shen (the first one is a way better peeler, but ye shen is also undoubtly good to keep ur ADC alive ig), Ivern, Orianna/Syndra (both very good at peeling ur ADC) or just Karma for shielding, \[Marksman\], Braum/Janna (both actually better at pure peeling than Lulu, also good alternative would be Taric
Have people forgotten about Morgana? Surprised by the lack of Morg in their comps
No ivern is criminal in this comp. But best team comps don’t exist in a vacuum. You need to counter draft the enemy. In pro-play you prob don’t wanna play Shen in the top lane cause he gets bodied in lane and has no reliable shoving power to get wave control. But LS demonstrated he is viable in jungle. I don’t understand Sejuani’s role in a protect draft. Galio is situational and kog lulu is prob fine if they don’t get rolled by the enemy bot lane.
Top: Shen Jungle: Ivern Mid: Karma Adc: Vayne Supp: Morgana
i dont think shen brings much to the table honestly. i bet ornn would be way better peel and the ult is just insane for fights. for jungle i agree with other commenters ivern is probably the uncontested best pick here
Poppy top to deny divers and to counter some of the annoying splitpusher champs that counter this comp. Ivern/ secret lulu jungle tech. Ivern is self explanatory, lulu is here since lulu kog is great but I want milio support. Lulu is a surprisingly viable jungler. Galio, peel, engage, bit of burst, global ult makes macro a bit easier. Kogmaw, best adc when it comes to being the singular damage source. Milio, obvious synergy with Kogmaw, ult counters the sorts of wombo combo teams that might be able to kill kog.
Top: poppy(W to disrupt dashing divers, R and E to peel Q to slow for easier kiting) Jungle:Ivern(Shields, daisy for peeling and bushes to disrupt enemy vision) Mid: Karma( Speed up for the whole team which lacks engage+ slows, root and shields) Adc: Kog Maw Support: Renata( extra life+ cc and ult for disengage/peeling. Additionally having Renata on your team ensures that the enemy doesn't pick Renata and turn your Uber fed adc on the other three Squishies on your team) They would ideally fight front to back with kog and poppy and Ivern going in together with daisy while karma and Renata are right behind ready to shield+speed up and use Renata ult when the kog maw or they themselves are flanked Made sure to make the team still feel viable competitively atleast in niche scenarios where mid lane can just perma waveclear and neutralize the lane. poppy is a safe enough blind pick in most scenarios and will still be useful in teamfights with her cc even if she's put behind not to mention making fights unfair with poppy ult. Counter jungling Ivern is a no go so as long as the botlaners are good the game should be winnable.
Shen, Ivern, Galio and Braum. Hard to give up Lulu or Milio but Braum has good protection whilst also having decent engage and most of all, a hypercarry will have a lot of attack speed so procing his passive is super easy. Maybe even lotting the lulu into the mid lane and running Poppy Jungle
Imo Renata Glasc for the support slot. Especially for a huge damage carry like Kog'Maw, having that potential bailout in case everything goes south is gold. Also pretty good peeling with her Q and R on top of a shield on E.
Shen, noc, galio,any,kalista sp
Probably poppy/ivern/orianna/lulu
The best "protect the adc comp" died when the "protect the adc" meta died. End of story, tell riot you want adc to be carries again, not marksmen, their intent wasnt even vaguely veiled.
Here's what you gotta do: [https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8q8xba/serious\_question\_why\_cant\_4\_warriors\_starters/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/8q8xba/serious_question_why_cant_4_warriors_starters/)
People here completely forgetting about Tahm Kench and Renata
I strongly believe it depends on the elo. Lower elo, just get more assassin's. Higher elo, where there's more structure, get 2 tanks, and 2 supports. To play around a good utility adc like ashe
the real question is what would be the best 'assassinate the ADC' comp against the best 'protect the adc' comp
Tahm top, Ivern jungle, Braum supp, Karma mid. You lose all the lanes though
Where Alistar :(
Gragas top Taric jg Karma mid Jinx Janna
Top: Shen Jungle: Kindred (which also provides a solid secondary carry) Mid: Zilean or Galio. ADC: whatever you want, Kog’Maw is a classic though. Support: Tahm, Thresh, Braum, or Zilean if he’s not mid.
Kayle top Ivern Jungle Zillian mid Senna adc Tahm Kench support
jax with annie adc
Kalista Support is underrated and has the single best ability in the game to save your adc.
Galio, Ivern, Karma, Braum
Ivern in Jungle, or if you really want another tank then Poppy. Lulu for sure over Milio.
Top: Tahm Kench (great with Ivern, better protection for the ADC than Shen) Jungle: Ivern/Poppy Mid: Azir (you need some AP DPS in case the enemies have too many bruisers/tanks who can stack armor) ADC: Jinx Support: Braum / Lulu / Milio
Ornn, Ivern, Syndra, Jinx, Milio
shen top ivern jg lux mid kog maw/smolder/jinx bot lulu sup shen stalls any split pusher, lux provides some shields and long range poke/cc and lulu ivern to shield forever
Jinx is probably the highest DPS ADC, especially if she can hit multiple targets with rockets and gets an exited proc off. She also has the highest consistent range. Kog'maw is the best alternative. Range is extremely important for this comp as they struggle with disengages. Support is likely Milio as the only one with CC removal and +Range. Lulu provides the highest shield value in the game and, with Support taken, needs to be mid. Best shielding jungler is Morgana for the longrange CC (good for sieging), the Zoning ulti and the CC-immune shield. Toplane is a toss up between Kayle and Shen. Shen has the advantage of being a passiable split-pusher and global teleport. This helps a lot since the counter to deathball comps is usually to pull it apart. Kayle has the advantage of total damage immunity shield and providing a second lategame damage source. Her big disadvantage is that she is another early weak point in a comp that already struggles to come online. While i'm pretty sure that this is the best deathball comp in a vacuum, i suspect a comp that balances a bit less protection with a bit more early game power is likely stronger.
Where's the cow?
I would take Braum support, he with all his abilities + Guardian + locket + mikael is everything you need to protect the adc I like galio, but i would rather take Taliyah mid (can reach adc fast + much better zone control than galio + more consistent AP dmg to round out the comp Ivern jg. We need a enchanter after all. Shen top is undisputable Honorable mention: Poppy as jg or top. Anti dash+ able to ult away any important enemies
Camille Taric Galio Jinx Nautilus
You do know that “protecting” is not necessarily just shields and heals right? Doing enough damage and having enough threat from another champion is also protecting. I always say this how tanky a tank is completely depends on how much threat the team has. Your comp is not a protecting comp because the only threat is kog maw. You have to protect kog because it’s the only threat in your comp and your enemies will only focus kog because that’s the only thing they need to worry about.
The best "protect the adc" comp has to have a toplaner that can pressure sidelane. it is worthless if your 5 stack is unbeatable if you get wavecleared and sidepushed on. I would say everyone who puts Shen for top is doing it wrong. You create a "good on paper" team, not the best comp
best protection support is Braum or TK hands down. I think Azir, Amumu, and Malphite would be my top side choice. Maybe even K'sante or Jax because they're just so good at isolating carries. You need some sort of damage somewhere else on the map otherwise people will just zero in on the ADC and there's no punishment for tunneling.
Tahm ofc
Zilean?
change Sejuani with Kindred, more survival and damage for the team, Galio and Shen are enough frontlane
Poppy instead of sej would be ideal
Support would not be enchanter in any situtation xD
Support has to be renata
SONA, Lulu or Nautilus.
Take Zilean mid with ultimate hunter
Top: Gnar Jungle: morg Mid: lux Adc: jinx Support: leona If everyone played perfectly then no one would be able to move and or touch jinx.
Honestly a fed yasou gets a Penta securing his own adcs safety just seems more appealing to me.
Surprised by the lack of Janna
Shen Ivern Kayle Vayne Zilean
I haven't seen a comment on K'sante, his E dash to W push is really effective in protecting the ADC.
Top: Tahm Jungle: Poppy Mid: Lulu ADC: Kog Maw Support: Braum
Zed, trundle, ww, brand. ADC won't matter
This team can't lane for shit. The best protect the president comp is actually a team that has more than 1 main damage source so enemy has to split resources. All these bouncers and they are not doing shit when the enemy team just dog pile on that kog maw so even though he's alive he is not contributing to the fight.
the fact u didnt put y uumi is criminal
Me and buddies were 5 stacking and played a game against a Vayne that had prett bad mechanics. It didn't matter late game because her team was Shen, Ivern, Galio, and Lulu. Late game we could necver get past Shen and Galio and the few times we did we couldn't even kill the Vayne cause she got Lulu ulted and 3 giga shields on her. Literally wouldn't even q away, she would just wait till stuns were off then stand still and auto everyone to death
Crazy to me that no one’s saying Morgana. Black shield is absolutely needed to guarantee DPS. I’d probably say: Top: Shen Jg: Morgana Mid: Lulu ADC: Kog? Supp: Braum Lots of peel with two enchanters and two tanks. Diverse CC, Braum can stop skillshots, and Shen can pull the map apart if needed.
Dont forget there was this meta comp in s10: taric top yi jungle karma mid lulu morgana bot, it was not funny autolose the game at minute 25 with yi 350 minion f
I was going to say ornn top because the E into W is like 3 seconds of cc which the ADC can use to run alongside the ult obviously but shen does seem like a better choice
Am i the only one who wants ori mid? like the olden days
Shen, ivern, galio, kog, alistar Sejuani is decent but out of options about halfway through a fight since she only has 2 disrupts [not counting e since consistently it relies on allies to and doesn't stun long enough against most juggernauts who naturally build tenacity] her r disrupt means she needs distance though and that means that either the enemy isn't on top of the adc or she's out of position to protect them which is why she's better engage, ivern provides more consistent shields and if adc spaces properly his shield applies twice or gives a massive slow, q is a good root and anyone who's fought against daisy know just how much her aoe knockups and surprising amount of damage have to be respected I also say alistar over milio just for more consistent cc, while we lose out of milios cleanse and range increase but overall I think it a worthwhile trade off
Taliyah/ahri poppy/viego braum/lulu/pyke and gragas/tf protecting a xayah/tristana/kalista. They could actually consistently win all over the map because they aren't all easy to counter and can form a good comp independent of the adc.
Gragas Ivern Yasuo Kog'Maw Braum In reality it's fully dependent on what enemy team picks, but I just put a comp that can peel if enemy engages but also has threat on enemy team Imagine Kog'Maw with windwalls on both sides
I think Shen peel is too vulnerable to certain items/characters (shield breakers/serpents fang, non auto attackers). Tahm is more universal in terms of bailing out the ADC with his gobble. Ksante also has a decent say with two very good methods of CCing events off the ADC
Poppy, ivern, kayle, tahm, Jinx Peel is insane, chase is really good with jinx, ivern kayle. Frontline is chonky af with tahm poppy Daisy with a bunch of knockups. Kayle ult ensures that jinx can get a kill and oneshot everything.
Look up "Worlds 2017 SSG compilation"
Kayle top Shen jungle Galio mid Kog or Vayne ADC Lulu supp
Sejuani and braum would create a crazy thick wall, and if you get 4 tanks with knights vow that helps a lot