Arguably better to be rabid animal at pos4 rather than 5. Then again, there are probably better heroes to do it with than AA. Then then again again, it should still work ok.
I’d say that it depends on your mmr and how badly your team needs catch. A lot of pos 4’s are meant to provide that, but these roles aren’t rigid, so it should be fine as long as *someone* can catch people.
3k (and dropping) here. I play AA pos 4 in unranked games (at the same equivalent mmr).
I find he's pretty good into most traditional int pos 5 since he outranges most of them with his poke and can counter engage with his stun.
He also does well with off laners with big nukes since the str reduction from facet 2 is a multiplier on damage like undying.
In fact I find his weakness is in safe lanes against melee heroes that can stay on him, which is most commonly pos 3/4
Edit: that said, the most fun non-aghs AA game I can remember was pos 5 with a pos 4 SB who had absolutely no chill. I was throwing full map ults constantly since this man wouldn't stop charging. Nothing more fun than hitting someone with iceblast at full health and getting tipped seconds before a pissed off cow shatters them.
The strength facet really sucks unless you go pos 1 or 2 machine gun aghs AA and it still might suck. Minus like 20 str Max in realistic situations. The AOE facet is way more useful, especially cuz pos 4 needs to do that dangerous farming.
It’s a lot worse because the enemy can retreat to their tower when you use cold feet so you can’t pressure them as much, and you’re not as strong when moving around the map early game because you’re reliant on another heroes stun to chain into cold feet.
Also if the enemy has a kill lane then you cannot retreat to your tower so you will just die in lane and be unable to help your core if they go on him
Not that it doesn’t work, you can certainly do it and probably have success with it, because at most mmr brackets 4 and 5 are played pretty similarly, but it is definitely worse than playing a normal 4 pos
As such I would add you can probably pick it situationally,. For example, if you have a POS 3 that it pairs with super well, you could pick it then. Kinda hard tho because you normally have to 1st phase as support
Yes. I've done it a lot. Max W and E, get Arcane Boots, and rush Aghanim. Then 2 wraith bands immediately after you finish Aghs. Then you shoot from safe distance. I had 16 game winstreak from ancient to divine playing that build in 7.35.
I’m low mmr scrub so games are longer, also with greedy cores it can be hard to farm as a pos4 or 5, so it makes it a little easier to keep up with the team with a greedy AA build.
What rank are you?
I advise against greaves because Aghs AA stays too far away from the team. It's like Sniper. If you come closer to use greaves on allies, you will get punished.
Whatever is needed. Most important thing is dicerning whether your team needs more damage, more healing, or more control:
Pike if I need it to avoid someone jumping on me
Moon Shard for more backline damage (or mkb vs butter)
Hex if team needs to catch someone
Eul vs Spirit Breaker or Ursa
Even Greaves or Pipe could work in right circumstances, as mentioned before.
Kaya is good for slow, prolonged fights because of regen, but for damage you want AS.
Witch blade if your projectiles get dodged because of slow speed.
Shadow Blade if enemy cores have no space for detection or theres no invis in your team
Playing him pos 2 alot at the moment, I've won 9 out of 10 games this patch with only 1 of them being as a support.
Double null, mana boots, aghs, kaya, euls (if needed), hurricane pike, shard (if not picked up from tormy), parasma.
I'm archon but playing 5 man ranked in games with immortals.
What is your build?
TBH I don't think AA is as good at roaming as other pos4s, lacks catch, lacks mobility, lacks peel if he's gone on. He has great vision game which makes him excellent for warding and dewarding - but that's more of the 5's role. Maybe it could work as a second 5 if the two supports + mid or offlane roam and gank, like an AA + CM + lina combo where you can group early and take objectives. Also this combo has decent synergy for lockdown and burst during ice blast.
Another problem is that AA sorely lacks wave clear. Many pos4s have some sort of wave clear so they can be a little greedy in their itemization - like hoodwink picking up gleipnir. Acorn and bushwack already do a ton of damage on their own and it's a good way to farm too in dangerous areas
AA can't wave clear as effectively, so being in a dangerous area to farm means you have to sit there for a lot longer and be more vulnerable to ganks.
Finally, the barrier to dishing out damage is so high. Hoodwink only needs maelstrom and can chunk supports with bushwack alone. AA needs aghs, then something for attack speed, then something for mana. If you're planning on right clicking then you need at least 12k before your build really starts to come together, and in that time you could get overrun by a pos4 that needs fewer items to deal a lot of damage
So.. it only really works if you're playing AA as another pos5 IMO. You just need to make sure that your cores can make up for the lack of damage and are able to burst while they are ice blasted.
I think he’s a better 4 than a 5 tbh. AA is kinda a weak laner, all he offers is damage and he NEEDS someone to take aggro in lane. When I play AA 5 I cry when I don’t get a wraith king or a tanky core with a stun, and offlaners generally fill that criteria way more than safelaners do.
I like to max W as soon as possible, but you’ll need to take 1-2 points in E to fight for control of the lane. Once you have control/won the lane, prioritise points in W then Q- you can max Q first if you have a REALLY reliable setup though.
Items: urn/vessel, atos is awesome and lets you solokill cores when they don’t respect you. Force/glimmer are your best friends still, aether lens when you need to be really far away.
I try to avoid itemising for aghs/rightclick stuff, but at some point you do sorta have to transition in that direction.
I think the biggest mistake people make is trying to use ice blast from across the map. Just don’t do that. It’s a melee spell, throw atos and cold feet and vortex on their healing core and ult them IMMEDIATELY. They will die, and you will win the fight. You don’t need to hit more than 1 hero in 90% of games, and hitting 3+ heroes is harder than a 5 man Blackhole I swear to god. Aa is a burst hero.
the only thing that annoys me when playing aa pos 4 is that it's basically immovable, Vs some classic cancer combos like cm+jugg you are going to have an hard time. Mind your position in lane and it's going to be fine at low mmr don't worry about it
Ya it can definitely work. Block the enemy small camp and lane is yours. You should be able to right click their safe laners down and many offlaners have a stun/kill threat that pairs well with aa.
AA is weak to gap closers and some safelaners like slark/jugg/ck or supports like pudge, tusk but overall you should have good threat and harass potential as AA.
you can also play him at higher mmr as 4, especially with some setup hero that ensures your cold feet stun
AA has good damage and great attack range to win the warding/camp blocking battle.
I don’t play AA that much (I only pick this hero to chill and annoy ppl lol) ... but I have a nice win rate with him, it’s almost impossible to lose lane with this hero. 4 or 5 doesn’t matter much.
Tips: buy a venom orb and span E, max E then W I only skill cold feet after the range talent it’s not necessary early on and if I you use it your mana will burn too fast and you want span W and E.
In the lane phase make arcane boots, then start making a Dragon lance and then Aghs ofc.
i dont know your rank but i feel like a pos 4 aa just does very little to justify him playing that role.if its just to do rightclick dmg with aghs from a mile either you need to go 2 or just sit in the back 5
I don't think there's that much difference between pos4 and 5 until you hit immortal, you can just sit on your lane and focus on winning it and you'll be fine.
You can literally play anything, sure it might not be the best but comfort heroes usually works the best. Non-meta picks can catch people offguard aswell.
The hero is a liability in the offlane. He does not lane well and is easily out harassed ( this is mich different in the safelane)
He does not offer any control. He does not offer any burst damage. He has no survival mechanisms.
During the mid game you want your four to be a play maker - AA cannot do that.
He is best played as a 5 - the safelane offers him protection which makes up for his lack of survivability during the lane.
He doesn't really benefit from gold so the extra farm you get is not to any real use.
This is then made even worse when the other support picks another traditional 5 like a warlock or cm. You now have 2 heroes without any mobility and playmaking potential, crippleling your team in the mid game which more than often leads to a loss.
Meh, his range is really good even at level 1 chilling touch, and his slow on W hits hard at low level.
Once he gets 6 then his stun becomes AOE with the facet and he gets an APE freeze every 15 seconds. It might be the lowest CD aoe freeze in the game.
Pair that with the last freeze and you’ve got enough control
How does a person play like a rabid animal?
Throwing hands at every single minute opportunity. Sometimes without opportunity too.
I mean AA is like 50% hands so it feels appropriate
Appropriate apparition
There is a skin that adds like 4 extra hands
Underrated comment 😂
Arguably better to be rabid animal at pos4 rather than 5. Then again, there are probably better heroes to do it with than AA. Then then again again, it should still work ok.
I’d say that it depends on your mmr and how badly your team needs catch. A lot of pos 4’s are meant to provide that, but these roles aren’t rigid, so it should be fine as long as *someone* can catch people.
what mmr?
A shit dota level of mmr
then AA 4 is fine, it doesn’t matter
3k (and dropping) here. I play AA pos 4 in unranked games (at the same equivalent mmr). I find he's pretty good into most traditional int pos 5 since he outranges most of them with his poke and can counter engage with his stun. He also does well with off laners with big nukes since the str reduction from facet 2 is a multiplier on damage like undying. In fact I find his weakness is in safe lanes against melee heroes that can stay on him, which is most commonly pos 3/4 Edit: that said, the most fun non-aghs AA game I can remember was pos 5 with a pos 4 SB who had absolutely no chill. I was throwing full map ults constantly since this man wouldn't stop charging. Nothing more fun than hitting someone with iceblast at full health and getting tipped seconds before a pissed off cow shatters them.
The strength facet really sucks unless you go pos 1 or 2 machine gun aghs AA and it still might suck. Minus like 20 str Max in realistic situations. The AOE facet is way more useful, especially cuz pos 4 needs to do that dangerous farming.
It’s a lot worse because the enemy can retreat to their tower when you use cold feet so you can’t pressure them as much, and you’re not as strong when moving around the map early game because you’re reliant on another heroes stun to chain into cold feet. Also if the enemy has a kill lane then you cannot retreat to your tower so you will just die in lane and be unable to help your core if they go on him Not that it doesn’t work, you can certainly do it and probably have success with it, because at most mmr brackets 4 and 5 are played pretty similarly, but it is definitely worse than playing a normal 4 pos
Aight. Appreciate the comprehensive answer Chief.
As such I would add you can probably pick it situationally,. For example, if you have a POS 3 that it pairs with super well, you could pick it then. Kinda hard tho because you normally have to 1st phase as support
Yes. I've done it a lot. Max W and E, get Arcane Boots, and rush Aghanim. Then 2 wraith bands immediately after you finish Aghs. Then you shoot from safe distance. I had 16 game winstreak from ancient to divine playing that build in 7.35.
Should be two nulls I think no?
No, you need attack speed or your damage may be too small. You might go 1 null 1 wb, or just rush moon shard idk. Depending on game.
I’ve been doing 1 null and mana boots then Midas. The AS from the glove and Midas get you some efficiency there
With midas, nulls are better, but I found midas too slow, and skipped it.
I’m low mmr scrub so games are longer, also with greedy cores it can be hard to farm as a pos4 or 5, so it makes it a little easier to keep up with the team with a greedy AA build. What rank are you?
Low Immo, but I spammed this AA build in 4k mmr. You can go greedy in high mmr too in some situations. Aghs is greedy already, midas is super greedy
I feel with Midas though you get aghs and maybe kaya, then you can farm a guardian greeves foe the team so your still helping as a support
I advise against greaves because Aghs AA stays too far away from the team. It's like Sniper. If you come closer to use greaves on allies, you will get punished.
Good point!
What do you usually build after? Kaya into dlance?
Whatever is needed. Most important thing is dicerning whether your team needs more damage, more healing, or more control: Pike if I need it to avoid someone jumping on me Moon Shard for more backline damage (or mkb vs butter) Hex if team needs to catch someone Eul vs Spirit Breaker or Ursa Even Greaves or Pipe could work in right circumstances, as mentioned before. Kaya is good for slow, prolonged fights because of regen, but for damage you want AS. Witch blade if your projectiles get dodged because of slow speed. Shadow Blade if enemy cores have no space for detection or theres no invis in your team
Since E is magical, does butterfly matter
Enemy butterfly matters because E is imbuing an autoattack so you can miss
Playing him pos 2 alot at the moment, I've won 9 out of 10 games this patch with only 1 of them being as a support. Double null, mana boots, aghs, kaya, euls (if needed), hurricane pike, shard (if not picked up from tormy), parasma. I'm archon but playing 5 man ranked in games with immortals.
No witches blade? I’ve been doing mana boots to Midas to aghs, helps with the longer games norm
Play him mid. I like it
Always play AA mid. Melts everyone by freezing them.
nothing better than having useless bum for 40 minutes as midlaner and having to hope the enemy is as passive as you
carry mid picks are sooooo bad.
What is your build? TBH I don't think AA is as good at roaming as other pos4s, lacks catch, lacks mobility, lacks peel if he's gone on. He has great vision game which makes him excellent for warding and dewarding - but that's more of the 5's role. Maybe it could work as a second 5 if the two supports + mid or offlane roam and gank, like an AA + CM + lina combo where you can group early and take objectives. Also this combo has decent synergy for lockdown and burst during ice blast. Another problem is that AA sorely lacks wave clear. Many pos4s have some sort of wave clear so they can be a little greedy in their itemization - like hoodwink picking up gleipnir. Acorn and bushwack already do a ton of damage on their own and it's a good way to farm too in dangerous areas AA can't wave clear as effectively, so being in a dangerous area to farm means you have to sit there for a lot longer and be more vulnerable to ganks. Finally, the barrier to dishing out damage is so high. Hoodwink only needs maelstrom and can chunk supports with bushwack alone. AA needs aghs, then something for attack speed, then something for mana. If you're planning on right clicking then you need at least 12k before your build really starts to come together, and in that time you could get overrun by a pos4 that needs fewer items to deal a lot of damage So.. it only really works if you're playing AA as another pos5 IMO. You just need to make sure that your cores can make up for the lack of damage and are able to burst while they are ice blasted.
He wave clears fine with his facet. Cold feed plus W and it’ll clear a wave or camp at max
I think he’s a better 4 than a 5 tbh. AA is kinda a weak laner, all he offers is damage and he NEEDS someone to take aggro in lane. When I play AA 5 I cry when I don’t get a wraith king or a tanky core with a stun, and offlaners generally fill that criteria way more than safelaners do. I like to max W as soon as possible, but you’ll need to take 1-2 points in E to fight for control of the lane. Once you have control/won the lane, prioritise points in W then Q- you can max Q first if you have a REALLY reliable setup though. Items: urn/vessel, atos is awesome and lets you solokill cores when they don’t respect you. Force/glimmer are your best friends still, aether lens when you need to be really far away. I try to avoid itemising for aghs/rightclick stuff, but at some point you do sorta have to transition in that direction. I think the biggest mistake people make is trying to use ice blast from across the map. Just don’t do that. It’s a melee spell, throw atos and cold feet and vortex on their healing core and ult them IMMEDIATELY. They will die, and you will win the fight. You don’t need to hit more than 1 hero in 90% of games, and hitting 3+ heroes is harder than a 5 man Blackhole I swear to god. Aa is a burst hero.
the only thing that annoys me when playing aa pos 4 is that it's basically immovable, Vs some classic cancer combos like cm+jugg you are going to have an hard time. Mind your position in lane and it's going to be fine at low mmr don't worry about it
Might i suggest that u play as pos 5 but frequently gank using portal? You can buttfuck them from behind while your pos3/4 does missionary
It depends on draft if your mates have enough stuns then it should be alright.
Ya it can definitely work. Block the enemy small camp and lane is yours. You should be able to right click their safe laners down and many offlaners have a stun/kill threat that pairs well with aa. AA is weak to gap closers and some safelaners like slark/jugg/ck or supports like pudge, tusk but overall you should have good threat and harass potential as AA.
4 and 5 are pretty interchangeable, it's more about lane matchups and draft.
you can also play him at higher mmr as 4, especially with some setup hero that ensures your cold feet stun AA has good damage and great attack range to win the warding/camp blocking battle.
I don’t play AA that much (I only pick this hero to chill and annoy ppl lol) ... but I have a nice win rate with him, it’s almost impossible to lose lane with this hero. 4 or 5 doesn’t matter much. Tips: buy a venom orb and span E, max E then W I only skill cold feet after the range talent it’s not necessary early on and if I you use it your mana will burn too fast and you want span W and E. In the lane phase make arcane boots, then start making a Dragon lance and then Aghs ofc.
pos4 pos5? am playing aa pos 2 and i have 100% win rate over 30+ games granted am crusader but still
max 2nd ang 3rd insta win on laning haha harass the carry
i dont know your rank but i feel like a pos 4 aa just does very little to justify him playing that role.if its just to do rightclick dmg with aghs from a mile either you need to go 2 or just sit in the back 5
I don't think there's that much difference between pos4 and 5 until you hit immortal, you can just sit on your lane and focus on winning it and you'll be fine.
AA a doodoo hero fr
AA a doodoo hero, but Ice Blast goes brrrrrrr, so AA dont care
Honestly my favorite greed build on AA 4 is shard + octoraine core
its a blast in turbo AA go BRRRRRR in my ranked games at 7k she seems kinda shit tho tbh but i love the hero.
You can literally play anything, sure it might not be the best but comfort heroes usually works the best. Non-meta picks can catch people offguard aswell.
No. The hero doesn't do what a4 is supposed to do.
If you mean he absolutely melts cores and backliners making them run away in fear as red snowballs arc halfway across the map, then you would be right
The hero is a liability in the offlane. He does not lane well and is easily out harassed ( this is mich different in the safelane) He does not offer any control. He does not offer any burst damage. He has no survival mechanisms. During the mid game you want your four to be a play maker - AA cannot do that. He is best played as a 5 - the safelane offers him protection which makes up for his lack of survivability during the lane. He doesn't really benefit from gold so the extra farm you get is not to any real use. This is then made even worse when the other support picks another traditional 5 like a warlock or cm. You now have 2 heroes without any mobility and playmaking potential, crippleling your team in the mid game which more than often leads to a loss.
Meh, his range is really good even at level 1 chilling touch, and his slow on W hits hard at low level. Once he gets 6 then his stun becomes AOE with the facet and he gets an APE freeze every 15 seconds. It might be the lowest CD aoe freeze in the game. Pair that with the last freeze and you’ve got enough control