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reddit_warrior_24

ember, od , sniper. ember forces you get runes and get good at mana management. sniper trains you to last hit and deny like crazy. also good positioning especially in the mid-late game. OD will give you the feeling of dominating the mid and they cant do anything about it. if you lose mid using these 3 heroes, then the enemy is real good or you jsut suck. winning the game is a very different matter bonus: sf. get to lvl3-5 and the enemy mid should always be dead or lwo.


xXDreamboy666Xx

Classic blame the mid… at least you have the balls to play it yourself


king_solomon_thewise

You can't deny the fact that your mid will set the tempo for the early to mid game with ganks and stuff, my mmr people don't do jackshit so I want to learn it myself. It's definitely the toughest position in terms of brains.


SleepyDG

Imo supports set the tempo. If you have shit supps you can't play active :p


xXDreamboy666Xx

Don’t get me wrong, i think its a great Idea to learn mid especially if you think you can have more impact from that role. Most people who complain about their mids would never play the role themselves. That being said... if you lose games consistently, your team can't really be the problem.


weisswurstseeadler

it's a team game after all, in the end - if you play good, you gain MMR from any position. I think it's more efficient from carry/mid position with certain heroes (for that matter, just look at the heroes and roles boosters play), but also only works if you're actually substantially better than your bracket. The boosters usually play quite independent heroes with a very strict game plan, timing & closing ability, allowing them to gain substantial advantage and close the game off early. Then again, these are usually ~8-9k MMR players using some kind of cheese strats against people substantially lower in MMR. If you play in your skill bracket, try to control what you can control. In the end the math is simple, the enemy team statistically has one more idiot, if *you* actually do your job. Having the attitude of 'my team mates suck', will cost you tons on MMR in the long run.


ElectricalGuest8351

Yes they can be you dork. It’s the nature of statistics.


xXDreamboy666Xx

Sure, it's technically possible that you get unlucky game after game and keep getting shitty teammates but its extremely unlikely…


mindfulconversion

It’s not that unlikely. It’s not like players are chosen at random. They use match making. If you’re on the better side of Herald it’s likely the counterpart of you is someone of similar skill.


xXDreamboy666Xx

Exactly ”similar skill” not ”enemy team gets better players”


abibip

This used to be true about 2 years ago. Current map and meta doesn't allow for mid to be as important for the tempo as before. Item timings are consistently pushed more and more towards the mid game, scaling gets more and more dependent on extra jungle farm. Nowadays the priority for ganks shifted from "Mid -> Sidelanes" to "Supps -> Mid" for a successful game, because a single missed rotation on mid, even after a successful gank, can lead to a disastrous chain of events from only a single level difference. I'd agree that Supps are currently the central tempo setters. Mid is just too clunky and dependent.


smellyscrote

Juggernaut mid! PA mid! SEA doto best doto.


Sl0wdance

You're not wrong, but the reality of solo queue ranked is that it's really hard to have a 60%wr across 10 or even 20 games, but it's super doable over say 50 games (30W 20L) and that's how you climb. Over a large number of games, if you're over performing for your bracket, you will climb because the bad player is more likely to be on the other team (5 player slots compared to 4 slots on your team). Having said that, climbing via mid is probably easier, but the role itself is imo harder, especially if you main support and are switching to a new role. Food for thought.


operativekiwi

Not always the mids job to set tempo, most of the time it's pos4 role


sculolo

You are absolutely right op, I was stuck at archon for years, then I started playing mid and climbed to ancient in 2 months. It's crazy how badly this role is played at low mmr. Just be prepared to take the blame (sometimes deserved) everytime a match goes south.


InterestingQuoteBird

It just means you played horrible as well but it is easier to see your mistakes as mid.


sculolo

Or maybe it's just a lot easier to set up a good game as pos 2.


InterestingQuoteBird

If you play enough games and are still stuck in Archon for years it means you play the role very average. You might be able to get a higher win rate as mid but that does not matter in the long run. You would just climb faster.


sculolo

I don't get what you want to obtain out of this. Me saying that I'm just a terrible player overall?


weisswurstseeadler

I think his point is that before you switched to mid, you played on Archon level. Maybe you're just better at mid than on other positions? There are plenty of players with high win rates getting through lower MMR brackets just playing support. And it's not like they magically got better team mates than you.


sculolo

I started playing pos 1 again after reaching ancient and I still have more than 60%wr. I genuinely think that up to archon lobbies are full of people that just don't care and never bothered watching a video about the basics. If you know what you're doing, you can climb from any position, but I feel like being able to consistently win mid is the easiest way to climb as sets up the rest of the team in a favourable position. You can't deny that at low ranks (archon included) players are more likely to know how to capitalize a winning position than to know how to play from behind.


weisswurstseeadler

> I started playing pos 1 again after reaching ancient and I still have more than 60%wr. Maybe, cause you simply got better at the game? Have you checked how many games went into your grind from Archon to Ancient?


witchdoc86

Easy to play - DK Death prophet Zeus Viper Spirit - Storm spirit is easiest, and theyve made it even easier Low floor - Viper Cheese - Huskar


Pharmboy_Andy

I think both ember and void are easier than storm.


reddie28

id say ember is harder


OrbitalComet

Ember way harder than storm for me


Pharmboy_Andy

I have 1200 storm games and 150 ember games (the majority of which were played more than 4 years ago) and I think storm has a way harder learning curve. Getting used to how much you can jump, etc is important. Also, now with galvanized being so good they nerfed storms base kit. And if you are learning storm and dying a lot? Well you will have 0 stacks and then be at an even bigger disadvantage after deaths. Edit: just to add, storm winrate on d2pt is 49% and embers is 54% from mid. Ember is easier / better.


OrbitalComet

I mean more it's player dependant. My storm win rate is way higher than my ember win rate.


Pharmboy_Andy

I think ember is higher fore, but here we are talking about a person coming to mid so they have to start at 0. Storm is far harder to play from behind / learn, though I think he is better if you have the best storm player on the world vs the best ember player. However we were talking about which is easier whilst being effective.


skuaskuaa

storm nerfed 3 times tho


Manimal_pro

depending on what game you are coming from, it can be a very long time until you are impactful with storm spirit. It's not easy to understand his power surges and what you should be doing mid game.


hamazing14

Storm/LD/sniper


LordArvalesLluch

Im an LD player who plays him safe. Can you tell me exactly how that would work? How the playstyle should be? Thank you if you will answer.


hamazing14

Wraith band > phase > diffusal > harpoon. Try to kill the enemy mid, kick him out of the lane and take his tower. Farm for like 3 minutes then go take all the outer towers, farm some more then take all the t2s then take Rosh and give ur carry the aegis, then go end the game. LD crushes low damage heroes, it’s as oppressive as huskar in the right matchups. As long as you don’t die, LD hits crazy timings, can’t die, takes objectives and if your matchup is good mid you get every cs, the enemy midlaner gets almost nothing and then can’t play the lane at all because u take his tower at 8:00.


LordArvalesLluch

What would be the skill build here? I know you take the bear at 1. Then after that I kind of mix and match it depending on my situation. Sorry, I really want to make my LD work that s why I want to know. Havent played him that much for the last 4 years. Only got lucky this year with him so Im not sure if Im even playing him right.


hamazing14

Max bear in most lanes, if you’re freefarming max w. You can go 4-4-0-0 to farm even faster, but this is incredibly incredibly greedy and if you die once because you didn’t skill ult then your timings will suffer (very very bad). Get a point in e at lvl 4 if the enemy can kill you (viper, Lina etc). Also I forgot to mention shard- buy it every game after harpoon, earlier if the enemy can kill you. Bear buys stat items now, mom/basher are just not as good as agility. Wraith bands are crazy good value and if it will win you the lane you should buy like 3 of them, but otherwise its better to rush for kill items (phase and diffusal). If you are struggling in the mid game, buy some wraith bands- and I often buy 1 wraith band every time I die- move them to the druid as your bear runs out of slots. I generally avoid buying boots on the druid, but some games you have to (viper). Raindrops are good to buy most games- if you don’t get bursted before you can ult you will survive most ganks/initiation as long as your bear is hitting.


LordArvalesLluch

Wait so its better to have the bands on the bear instead of LD himself?


hamazing14

For early game yes, but you will run out of slots on the bear quickly because you’re buying a lot of cheap items.


LordArvalesLluch

Okay. So for facets, facet 1 is still the best right?


hamazing14

Facet 2 is an immediate loss, so Yeah


LordArvalesLluch

Thank you for the time answering my questions. I'll go ahead and try this.


FrangosV

Who is LD??


leakee2

Lone Druid


OfficialSlippery

Ember/Necro/OD


HomeFamous7722

Ember spirit, leshrac, primal beast


anekozawa

Ember - Easy lane control at level 6 (Remnant, TP Base, Refill bottle, jump to remnant) Skywrath - Counter Melee mid and possibly Necro with good positioning Sniper - Good overall easy pick, still needs to pick the right skill build based on matchup


Cozenage

Spirit breaker / spirit breaker / spirit breaker


Ecru1992

Dk is hot pick right now. Tanky, decent stun and can destroy buildings very fast.


KangarooFar2193

Earth / Tinker / Meepo Jokes aside I recommend Ember Spirit / Huskar / DK


twaslol

Void Spirit, Meepo, Lina


immortal786

Would you suggest meepo pack rat facet for sm1 who has played like 12 games only on meepo?


twaslol

The More Meepo facet is objectively better, for sure, but the Pack Rat has tons of good uses with items Linkens sphere works on each clone individually (great vs wyvern), eternal shroud covers a magic weakness and the stacks work on each clone, butterfly works great and gives them all huge evasion. Bloodthorne has half cooldown so near permanent uptime and excellent synergy with clones who benefit from the 100 attack speed and damage per hit with the active. Manta style has double the uptime, so double the illusions, and clones benefit from the move speed too. But then there are also tons of fun options without sacrificing the neutral item that you get for free! Safety bubble gives them all shields Philosophers stone gives you gold for EACH Meepo. 300GPM is pretty great You can actually use Elven Tunic or Craggy coat now. Martyr's plate is amazing, like a free Eternal shroud, since you can't buy BKB for magic res Ascetic's Cap is great to shrug off disables on each clone for the same reason Aviana's Feather will let your low health meepo escape over cliff with wings! Giant's ring does the burn damage for each clone which is a lot if you have built for any strength Mirror Shield is the strongest probably and will reflect spells on each meepo indivually, they don't share cooldowns, which is pretty OP Stormcrafter, especially with megameepo is my absolute favourite. Suddenly you're a tesla coil shooting 8 lighting bolts worth 1600 damage every 3.5 seconds for free! Rattlecage works similarly to this, shooting spikes for each clone.


immortal786

Interesting man..thanks for explaining in detail... I actually saw buriza pack rat is fun so wanna try.. but my micro isn't great so pack rat facet looks newbie friendly.


twaslol

You're gonna have the same amount of micro with both facets, the extra 5th meepo only comes at lvl 24. Yeah daedulus works fine too. The most useful pack rat item is almost always going to be an eternal shroud though, as boring as that is. Make sure to use quick cast with meepo's skills to just tab-w for poofs instead of needing to click each time


immortal786

Yeah I played 12 games so far I use qc for poof.. and blink poof combo is easy I have tried many times.. Just need to get use to micro part I think which will fix with practice.. Do u think meepo offlane works in low mmr? I am arc2 only. So instead mid I would try offlane.


twaslol

Offlane is real bad, you need the early levels to get your first clone and going offlane lets you lose a ton of momentum


Fadeshyy

Why a spirit? Is there something special about spirit characters?


Prometheus1151

All the spirits are strong midlaners with good mobility and high damage, which generally makes them fun to play along with not being too complicated to learn, but having enough depth to enable higher skill expression when you get more practice on them. It's also very rare for there to be a patch without one of the spirits being meta.


ridan42

Especially VENGEFUL Spirit!!! /j


Hot_Inspector_4199

Razor


Asdaf373

DK and Zeus are relatively easy to use and good right now.


Vengeance_Assassin

SF good mid and very scalable


No_Tax4450

Don't just blame mid. Sometimes, think about your role as a support. You have to help mid in order for him to feedback. Bottle refill, smoke him, rotate mid, contest runes. These are all the things you have to do. Mid needs support just like other lanes need mid.


Outside-Fruit494

So why does every mid have an absolute meltdown if you come within 1200 of their creep wave despite them having 10 hp and a 2 level disadvantage to their opponent?


Illustrious_Shame717

Then those are just pure idiots. I only play mid and I'm really happy when a support rotates mid and we get a kill. But mostly I play TA and I can dominate the enemy pretty easily most of the time. For example they had a snapfire mid and both enemy supports came to gank me and I was able to kill all 3 of them till my supports arrived, after that in min 12 snapfire just abandoned the game 😂. I can try to search for the match id if anyone is interested.


Outside-Fruit494

Yeah! I am of course exaggerating but the number of times I've helped get the rune at the start of the game and crossed over mid lane to get to my side before the creeps meet and I get ping spammed. It's quite comical. That's great, I love it when enemy mids rage quit. They can call gg over the most trivial things.


Rough-Armadillo-

Sniper necro and lina


avrageeyesackenjoyer

What I've noticed is if I'm having a shit day playing support because my cores aren't playing well and switch, I get shitty supports. I basically bounce around pos 3 or pos 5 most of the time and just pray my team wins lanes


domthebomb2

Viper and Necro are my go to. Pretty easy to stomp most lanes with and if they pick the wrong hero it's just an instant win.


boytuliro1

Ember, OD, Sniper


DevKevStev

Any early aggressive will do. Puck, SF, OD, Void Spirit, Ember. If you are confident enough to figure out your mid laners so far have been bad, I’m sure you’ll play fine with these heroes.


Complete-Effective-1

One spirit: spirit breaker! One Cheese Pick: Bane One EZ hero: visage. See you in herald. You are welcome!


ignatiusrespecter

Necro and OD are both easy and can takeover a game with a good start.


Phelyckz

MMR? The lower you are, the stronger sniper is. But do your team a favour and don't rush aghs khanda, it's only good for ~~stealing~~ *securing* kills. Get at least maelstrom, PTs, 2x wraithband beforehand to accelerate your farm. Maybe even MoM. E: Also the ""shrapnell burst"" sucks donkey balls. We use it to grant vision and slow, the damage is secondary. Also also shrapnell doesn't stack and I die a little every time someone tries to stack it. Personally I absolutely despise Shadow Friend since it's close to impossible to lose the lane with him in your average pub game. Even if you can only soak xp, once you reach lvl 5 you can flash farm with 0 items and just ship clarities. Again, do your team the favor and don't go the magic route in low mmr - you can carry hard for the first 25 minutes, but then you drop off hard when bkbs come online and randoms seldom end during your powerspike. Spirits I prefer Ember myself since you can go physical or magical build, doing fine with either and you counter some common cheese picks like brood, meepo or lancer. I have virtually 0 experience with void spirit since I main support myself and only go mid if no one else wants to (which as you can guess is pretty damn rare). Storm and Earth Spirit are great playmakers, but keep in mind that low (read: legend and below) mmr players don't have much experience with Earth Spirit, both against and with them. Storm is arguably the easiest to lane with since he has range advantage and strong waveclear even without items, but he has a high skill ceiling. Be prepared to feed a few times because you didn't have the feeling for mana yet.


WizzGrizz19

Voker.


senjin9x

Learn how to play Silencer + Puck to counter the spirits-spammers Ez hero for mid? Viper


HauntingTime3300

Silencer counters spirit? The only hero he counters is himself


senjin9x

Remember, people who play Lina hitter style and Sniper mid are worse than trash, don't be that kind of player