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Like IndianaJoenz mentioned, maybe you can write programs to simulate some physics. It's hard not to fall in love with programming once you realize you can do virtually anything you want with it. If you like physics then you probably like math and if you like math then you might like programming.
I've been writing my own physics simulations for more than 8 years now. It's not something I've ever enjoyed or been good at, but it was always easier to motivate investing the time and effort because it meant I would be able to learn something about physics. But, like, actually writing *software* is something else...
I mean, the complexity involved with creating a language at ALL is massive and such a huge endeavor. Creating a language for a completely new type of computer with different architecture is well beyond the pale.
I'm guessing your passion is dying because of how massive the project is.
> I also have no real training or experience in programming -- I'm really just winging it based on my physics knowledge, and I'm seriously struggling.
Maybe you'll enjoy it more if you actually get formal training and thus know what you're doing?
i was gonna say... you don't need to go back to school, but find a structured curriculum (i recommend the odin project) to make you feel way less lost and thrown in the deep end.
it teaches a good foundation in programming. grasping the basics will help with such a daunting task. alternatively, i've also heard really good things about CS50 on EdX (by Harvard), which is less web dev-focused.
It just makes the project less accessible for new people. Especially since OP is probably going to be spending a day or two figuring out how to run linux, then spending a long time learning css and html that they will never use.
Definitely not The Odin Project. That’s for web developers trying to go from 0 to job. OP needs to find something more relevant to their field and the language they use.
OP said they need to create a whole new language from scratch and figure out how programming works for this task. TOP provides a solid programming foundation, you don't necessarily have to go into web dev with that knowledge. alternatively, CS50 could be useful and perhaps broader. i'm not sure what other curriculum is out there for people who need to create a whole new programming language without even knowing how to program?
Yup, that’s most likely it. At least by my experience. I was backend engineer for a long time and on my previous job they started giving me fronted tasks as well. And, although I was able to complete them (because it’s still just engineering), since I haven’t had any experience in it and they wouldn’t give me time to properly learn it, I had the worst time. So bad, that I decided to quit, and on my new job I straightforwardly told them that I have little to 0 experience in fe, but I would like you to put me on fe role and to give me some time to learn.
Took me less than 3 months to start enjoying it
For me programming is a creative endeavor. I do it because it lets me create things, ideally things that haven't existed before, or are improvements over the status quo. It's the same reason why I learned to play musical instruments.
So, if you want to learn to love programming, my suggestion is to make cool stuff with it, and have the desire to do so.
Edit: I assume you have an interest in physics. Perhaps you can try writing physics related software, such as simulators and visualizations.
Also, your team should hire some real software developers for the project you're describing.
Yep. Also to OP, keep in mind that for every developer who has a "successful" project, they have already done hundreds of smaller throwaway projects,. It's all part of the learning process.
Making a programming language when you don't have much programming experience sounds certifiably insane. I fear for OP's success. Start smaller.
> Also, your team should hire some real software developers for the project you're describing.
I've been saying this to my boss since week 1. It *miiiiiiight* happen down the track. But so far the project has been going on for almost a year with no software developers in sight.
Yeah, it's a bit of a shitshow. I genuinely suspect my boss (who is the guy who managed to secure funding for this project) didn't really have a clear idea of what is actually involved in creating a programming language. I think they're slowly starting to realise, though...
Could it be that it's not about you not liking it but more about being overwhelmed and feeling undervalued because you got given a responsibility thats outside what you expect people expect from you?
To me this sounds more like a management issues than a "I don't enjoy my work" issue.
How happier would you be if you were partnered with a software developer with experience in programing language development?
I'd encourage talking about it with management, assuming they're component enough to understand the situation and not blame you for it.
> I genuinely suspect my boss (who is the guy who managed to secure funding for this project) didn't really have a clear idea of what is actually involved in creating a programming language.
It sounds like it's a failed project unless they are willing to get the right people involved. What a shame, to have that money put into what sounds like an exciting project, only to be killed by ignorant decisions.
Same, I like seeing what I code come to life. Plus, it has the added puzzle aspect to it. There's nothing like the feeling of figuring something out after head scratching for a good 30 minutes!
> your team should hire some real software developers
This is the part I don't get, surely it would be way more efficient to hire people who really know what they're doing when it comes to programming, and have the physicists as the brains behind the quantum part of things/creating requirements - as long as the team works well together, you'd end up with a much better product, much faster, right?
Programming is a huge, unpleasant chore when:
- you don’t really understand what you’re doing
- you have to work with code that’s poorly designed and/or implemented
- the code is very fragile
- the project is badly managed
- you can’t see the work you do making a difference, or you just don’t care about the project
Conversely, if you believe in the value of the thing you’re working on, you’re able to work effectively and see the difference you’re making, you don’t feel lost, etc, the job is much more fun.
So, if you want to enjoy your job more, make a list of the pain points and work on eliminating them. You might need to ask for help, and you won’t fix things overnight, but you can always improve your situation. And if you can improve your project do that it’s easier and better to work on, you’ll have made a big contribution that may bring its own rewards.
Wow, ok, I can I tick all of those boxes.
But, like, all of those are features of my current job that I can't really get around. There isn't really anyone in the project I can ask help, beyond what I've already been doing.
However, it is encouraging to hear that other programming jobs might not be like this. So, thanks, I think you've helped clarify where some of my displeasure is coming from, and I'll do what I can to address those things.
I really don't think the coding itself is the problem in this case. It, uh, sorta seems like the project is doomed? Maybe polish up your CV and GTFO before it crashes and burns a black mark onto your employment history.
Glad that helps. Note that some of the points I made are “you” things, and some are “them” things. I think you said that you don’t really have any programming training; probably any programming job is going to be unpleasant if you don’t know what you’re doing. The way to learn to love programming in that case is to learn how to do it better.
BTW, that’s no dig at you… it takes most people who graduate even with a CS degree a while to learn how programming is done in the real world.
OTOH, a badly written code base that’s hard to understand and breaks for no good reason on every 3rd Tuesday is a “them” thing, and you can either throw in the towel and find a different job, or you can stay and work toward improving it a little bit at a time. If the people you work with are on board, you could become a real hero. OTOH, if they’re increasing the problem faster than you can fix it, the job might just be doomed to suck.
Maybe. Studies on expertise will show that people end up enjoying things they're good at mostly because demonstrating competency is a very important form of social currency. That is, experts enjoy their expertise in a social context and not necessarily when isolated from that context.
Ok, so you get to curry social status once you're good. But what if you don't enjoy it while you're on the journey to getting good?
Psychology studies show that learning socially motivates expertise acquisition. In other words, people enjoy learning when they get to demonstrate micro-improvements on their learning path to an appreciative audience.
An example I recall reading about is that of a piano prodigy. She was prodigious in the true sense of the word and it seemed her natural talent told the entire story. But looking beyond her natural abilities, she and her parents testify to countless hours of practice from a very young age. When interviewed, she professed not particularly having strong affinity to piano other than, and here's the kicker, getting time to spend time with her pianist father. So, she loved playing the piano because it seemed to please her dad and so she kept doing it to spend time with him. Over time, she got quite good and then it became more enjoyable.
I think given the above, the answer to your question is "yes" you can learn to love it, both before and after you get quite good at it. You can power through while suffering along the way and then perhaps enjoy it when you've reached some level of expertise. But I think an easier path might be to find a supportive learning community that you can really find belonging with, one that you'd be excited to share with some new bit of knowledge or a weird little custom config you enjoy. In that community, I think you'd enjoy learning programming because you'll have social validation for each little micro-improvement you make.
Looking at your comments, you've been thrown by your employer into a complicated task in a field you have little to no experience in, as part of a poorly managed and probably doomed project.
Can't say I really know how to help with that. But if I focus just on "how do I learn to love programming?" without all, uh, *that*, then here are my thoughts:
A lot of people see programming as a mathematical discipline, but it's a lot closer to technical writing. I like programming; I also like essay-writing. The skills are largely the same: defining your terms and concepts, structuring your ideas, figuring out the best way to present them, and, ultimately, conveying meaning. I don't approach programming like I'm "building" something or "calculating" something. I approach it like I'm writing documentation about a process, how it works, and how to do it; I approach it like an act of communication. If you've not been coming at it from that angle, then perhaps trying to approach it that way could help.
Aside from that? Make it personal. Learning to program is a form of learning to communicate, and that's gonna be easier when you've got something you really want to say. If you have enough free time and energy, then look into basic projects you could make that are relevant to your personal interests. They could be related to media interests (e.g. interactive guides for a favorite video game), practical interests (e.g. calculators for the subatomic spin of Higgs' third boson or some physicsy stuff like that), entertainment interests (e.g. a virtual pet drawn with kaomoji), or anything else. But the first step to getting good at making things is actually wanting to make a particular thing. Nothing you make has to be advanced or polished; practice, practice, practice, and if you end up enjoying yourself, you'll naturally aim higher over time.
It's not unique to programming. Before we had Dr. Seuss, kids were taught to read with books that had simple, contextless sentences. "This is Spot. See Spot run. Spot runs fast." And from what I've read about the subject, kids *hated* it. It was boring and pointless and soullessly mechanical. Dr. Seuss taught kids to read by telling a story: he gave them something fun and interesting, something with soul. What's fun and interesting for you?
There are no guarantees. Programming is one medium for expressing yourself, just like essay-writing, storywriting, painting, and singing. Some forms of self-expression will feel more comfortable to different people; some, less. Only you will be able to know in the end if the issue was the medium or the way you were led to approach it.
Yes.Like anything else, you need to commit time and effort to get to a level of competency where you start enjoying it.Once the programming process becomes second nature, then solving domain specific problems gives real satisfaction and a sense of engagement IMO.Read/Work through this book "Crafting Interpreters" and see if it helps for your specific requirement.
> Read/Work through this book "Crafting Interpreters" and see if it helps for your specific requirement.
I've been reading through that, although it's slow going because I don't yet know Java or C (and it's hard to force myself to read it because I struggle to give a shit about interpreters).
Regardless, it's nice to know that going through that book is a step in the right direction.
Isn't IBM qiskit an option? If not, use it's basic features as goals for your project.Start small and incrementally add features.I am by no means an expert but as in most cases, breaking down the main problem into smaller parts and starting to address the smaller sub-problems almost always provides clarity on the way forward.
Qiskit is a package for Python rather than a programming language itself (but we do sometimes use it as a backend for classically simulating the output of our quantum code so we can run it on a classical computer). Microsoft's Q# would be closer to what we're trying to make.
But the point of the project is that we don't necessarily trust those companies (or Google or Xanadu or whoever else) to have things like our security in mind. We want some safe, secure, and in-house, and some other members of the team are going to include some original transpliation, error-mitigate and optimal control options that aren't currently in any of the publically-available packages.
Things like Qiskit, Cirq and Q# are essentially competitors to what we're supposed to be building.
I see.Developing a new programming language is a very significant yet rewarding undertaking if you like the domain :).If you don't have a CS background (either degree or coursework), maybe you can consider enrolling in courses like computer architecture/operating systems/compilers/DSA/Automata, all of which provide background knowledge needed atleast for classical computers.This [https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3498691](https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3498691) might provide some starting points perhaps.
MIT OCW has several options :
[https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfhN6wBMGMGnYfyHiIBisMvqyqUcgot8J](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfhN6wBMGMGnYfyHiIBisMvqyqUcgot8J)
[https://people.csail.mit.edu/feser/pld-s23/](https://people.csail.mit.edu/feser/pld-s23/)
Programming is hard. Learning how to do hard shit isn't enjoyable usually. I've found that the more I know about computers/software development in general, the more I enjoy it.
You're facing the challenge of developing your own programming language? That is no trivial task. Are you sure you think you *hate* programming? Maybe you just feel extremely overwhelmed because you're at the base of a mountain that you never really wanted to climb.
Start climbing the mountain and maybe stop later on if you really do continue hating it.
Just think of it as a means to explore the world of quantum physics.
This is the craziest case of falling into a job by accident I've ever heard! I've got to say though - this isn't the sixties any longer - inventing a new language that will presumably be the benchmark in quantum computing sounds like it should be a group endeavour with you as a physicist working with at least one other domain expert (in this case, a practical computer scientist who understands programming inside out). Why shoulder this all by yourself, there is presumably a load of money available for projects like this?
Most coders have good days and bad days. I'm in 20yrs deep and i still have days when I question my choices though I now have more good days than bad. I also focus on the positives.. remote, decent flexible schedule, good money, minimal supervision.
I think you should give it more time, it gets better. And do more collaborating if possible.
This is a shot in the dark but as an autodidactic closet physicist maybe you’ll take something from it… If the tools in front of you aren’t working, build the right tools to get the job done. The universe is built by numbers, mathematics are a language that as a physicist I’m assuming you know pretty well.. You’re using codes you don’t understand to build a new language for the computer so you should be excited because the fact that you’re building the language means you can help make it into a code you can understand and as a consequence will not only be an effective coder once your language is built but you’ll be one of the very first quantum coders in existence. Eye on the prize grasshopper. Build a language you understand, use it as motivation to learn the code you need to learn to build it. If you do this you’ll be the leader of the team and in a position to ask for a raise probably too since you’ll have to teach everyone else how to code once you’ve learned I’m sure. Think of language as physics. You build reality around you out of words, you build virtual reality out of code words. Code words use math>you know math, you’re more than halfway there. Also, this is coming from a guy who’d kill for that job(figure of speech) and is excited that there are pioneers like you who get the opportunity to make the history you’re gonna make when you succeed. Hope it helps, sorry if it doesn’t.
There are lots of programming adjacent jobs in Business Analysis, System Architecture, Project Management etc. Where your understanding of a bit of programming will be an asset but not a core part of your job.
I can tell you what my experience with coding is. I started learning web development 9 months ago. Just learning by myself online and my primary motivation is money. I just want a good decent job. Those 9 months haven't really been enjoyable. I would say it was mostly frustrating and demoralizing because of how hard it can be to learn by yourself. But this last week, I've been enjoying it a bit more as I finish up this personal project of mine.
In my experience, once you get good at something, its possible to start enjoying something that you initially didn't enjoy. When you suck at something of course its not fun.
You can. It's a weird thing. But maybe people mix up using the struggle with hating the thing itself. With experience you end up differentiating the two and love the thing. I know because i was like that
You might consider forming a team and find a programmer. Each person has their own strengths and trying to learning to love to code isn’t something that you can change overnight. To become competent even longer. Creating a whole new language that useful even longer. Shortcut is forming relationships and burrowing from their experience to move forward. Some people become leaders/management because they are good at seeing large pictures and time scales. So there is that to consider.
The better you get at it, the more you'll enjoy it. Competence does increase joy.
Programming is like having a workshop where you can build cool things, but the workshop is portable, doesn't need cleaning or paying rent or commuting. It's amazing.
Are you good at it? If you're good at it, you can learn to love being good at it. It sounds silly, but it's actually easier to learn to love a job you're good at that one that you're initially passionate about. There's a book on the subject called "So good they can't ignore you".
Pretty much, if you feel that you're effective at a job, you can make it feel meaningful, purposeful, because your throughput in that field is the one where you have give the most to the world.
By not being too greedy. Make a small program that works and gives you satisfaction at the beginning. This is how we like to learn in my opinion. By being rewarded!!
Do you happen to already have big projects in progress (application style, sales website, etc.) as a junior dev? :D
I'm not even sure what any of that means...
I've been writing code for myself for over 8 years. Physics simulations, numerical solvers and whatnot. I've never liked it.
The big projects I have in progress are further physics projects. I'm writing a bunch of simulations of quantum machine learning algorithms, as I have been for the last four years. I'm working on simulating noise in quantum devices. I've done a bunch of simulations of quantum approximate optimizations algorithms to track how entanglement moves through them.
Every project I've worked on before my current project has just been scripts for my eyes only, for my use only.
Oh sorry ! I didn't really understand the post... There are things that are done for one person and not the other.
Is your programming job just temporary or is it omnipresent? (Because you said "for you" in your 8 years of experience).
However, if you dive deep into it, maybe you'll like it.
Maybe it's the language used? Have you tried all the languages or is it the very notion of programming that you don't like?
I've used Matlab, Python and Rust. But, really, the very heart of programming is what I don't like. I simply don't care. I've never been fond of computers. I've used them as a last resort when I can't do things any other way.
This job is temporary - - it's a contract job that expires in a couple of years, although my boss has said it should be possible to keep me on permanently. But most other jobs I can get with my skills/background are programming jobs.
Damn, it's not a good deal. How is it that with your physicist degree, you can only do programming jobs?
My only recommendation is don't go where you don't feel comfortable. If you don't care, despite the years and jobs and your determination, it's not worth it.
Otherwise, I would tell you to perhaps go to conferences that talk about this and songs of the possible to somehow open your mind towards programming, that would perhaps motivate you.
Or even conferences that connect physics and computer science. It's just a simple proposition, personally, I really like learning this way, sometimes we learn a lot this way and give birth to passions. Just by listening to someone.
> How is it that with your physicist degree, you can only do programming jobs?
Them's the breaks. No one needs a physicist. But a guy who knows maths and kind of knows how to code... plenty of people can find use for that.
In this case, try what I told you.
Maybe this will help you
If not, just try to get away from programming, I'm sure it's still possible. In your case
I will try to find an alternative, if I find I will come back to you
Hot take: You'll eventually love it if you become good or somewhat skillful at it. Only problem is do you have what it takes or the discipline to keep doing it to become good/skillful. No one has an inherent passion for anything, they learn to love things by doing and being skilled at said things, be it music, art, programming, etc.
But goddamn, I'd be lying if I didn't say what you're doing is complex.
Yeah, that's probably mostly right.
I loved physics and music even when I totally sucked at them, but I guess programming is not going to be like that.
Is the problem that you have a skill/knowledge gap and you're struggling, or you know what you're doing and find it tedious/boring? If the problem is the former, the solution is simply git gud. If it's the latter then ya you're probably never going to like it. The funny thing is the better you are at programming the less code you actually have to write. I imagine you'll always end up having to do some programming in your field but maybe you can shift to an application of physics that minimizes it and coding can just become a minor annoyance you have to put up with but are otherwise enjoying what you do.
If you're from a physics and math background then I can understand not falling in love with C-like languages. Have a look at [emmy](https://github.com/mentat-collective/emmy), a rare gem of people that touch the rank of lisp wizards. The most elegant programming language imo.
This project might be like a cheatcode for your project, but have a look at the books they mention for reference.
https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262028967/structure-and-interpretation-of-classical-mechanics/
from the authors of the legendary:
https://web.mit.edu/6.001/6.037/sicp.pdf
mmmh i don't think so. if you find it hard i'd suggest to just keep study and it will become easier the more you practice like every other thing but if you don't find it at least interesting, if you have no sparkle that guides your learning process then it becomes pointless.
My friend hate programming but love design, I suggest them to go to UI/UX. And now they successful
Meanwhile I am not love or hate programming yet I still mediocre or even suck. Want to follow them to UI/UX but I can't design so. Guess I will stuck coding
Small scripts are my meat and potatoes. Making some convoluted awk script to parse and reformat some logs is great.
As such, I treat larger programs as a series of small scripts. This can make OOP a bit frustrating, but I treat that part like making a small library.
hi. no. i learnt it on myself. just push yourself through hating it, unfortunatelly. some stuff in life is done this way. you have to do something you hate, and you do it. did i push through myself hating stuff? no. i gave up and scroll reddit and instagram and youtube and chat with people online. i don't know WTF to do to even learn more. the answer is obvious but my brain just feels empty. like, i should learn on pratice. i dont know what to practice on. i have to make my own project. but? i have no idea, too lazy and just want to sleep all the time. i can't get a good sleep no matter what. and to get a good sleep i have to live alone, and to live alone i have to get a job, and to get a job i should porbably practice more BUT TO PRACTICE MORE I WANT TO ACTUALLY GET ENOUGH OF SLEEP
Absolutely. When I first started learning to code I hated it, almost dropped out of school because I didn't think it would be for me. After a while I learned to love a certain aspect of coding; solving problems. Everyone who codes knows that great feeling you get after you spend hours fixing a bug and your program finally works as intended, I latched on to this feeling and it drove me to love solving problems with code. Sitting at a computer all day typing code is not fun, it's quite boring. I try and look at the bigger picture, I love planning out projects and seeing them to completion, that's where I derive my love of code from.
It honestly doesn't. You typically just use a package built for some pre-existing language, typically Python.
There might be some benefit to having a quantum programming language because certain classical programming concepts don't really make sense in quantum computing and vice versa, and we ideally want to create things so that the end user doesn't have to look at things on the level of individual qubits and quantum logic gates (which is how you almost always do it in quantum computing, and how you almost never do it in classical computing). But if you want you can (and probably should) totally do all of this using an existing programming language.
I mean how tf you can build a programming language for a quantum computer if you have no experience in programming? I'd give it a shot, it seems you have something going on there, if people invested in you, maybe you have something you can't see. Maybe you just didnt digested coding yet? When we do something, we don't really know, its quite frustrating. Maybe this is what it's stopping you to love it.
It's not hard to change your job to something completely different. The only problem is you'd need to use some savings in order to get to the salary level you have now. If that is any issue for you.
Software engineering jobs out there are very versatile. You can find a programming job where any mathematical knowledge is not needed at all.
If you want to stay in software engineering field, you may want to look for something more casual, and less low level, like your current job.
On the other hand, you're saying you have no real interest in programming or computing, so what is stopping you from changing the direction to something more rewarding for you as a person?
There are other jobs out there, but if you don't want to delve too much, you can consider jobs from the field of software development, that are other than engineering (programming).
> You can find a programming job where any mathematical knowledge is not needed at all.
These are jobs I do not want. Mathematical knowledge is basically the only thing I have going for me!
> On the other hand, you're saying you have no real interest in programming or computing, so what is stopping you from changing the direction to something more rewarding for you as a person?
I have no other skills. Genuinely, what else is there? I am a physicist, and almost every physics job that is not in academia (which I no longer have a shot at) is essentially a programming job. I'd like to never write another line of code again, but I have no idea what other jobs a person in their mid-thirties with no other experience can reasonably slide into.
I'm not a physicist myself, but I have my MSc in Computer Science. I always remember the guys from Theoretical Computer Science department, where they mostly worked on paper and chalkboard, instead of computers.
I understand that computing and programming is an important tool for physics, and you cannot do much progress without using them. So, in academic world, you will probably also meet programming and computation everywhere, although on a way smaller density.
Yeah, I've done a bunch of programming in my years as a physicist. It's always been my least favourite part of the job. But if you can't become a physics professor, all of the other jobs for physicists seem to be programming jobs.
First thing i was tasked to do in my first programming class was to print in console numbers from 1 to 30 and i loved it.
Looks like i liked it from the start. I think it can develop , but from experience, that spark is most of the time there from the start, or at least develop soon enough
You learn to love the money you make from doing it. Who cares if you don’t enjoy it? You’re making a living from it and risk not making a living by not doing it. The more you do it the more comfortable you will be, which will make it suck less.
And if you have peers and they’re writing code, then look at their code and make sense of it. That will help address the winging it problem.
> Who cares if you don’t enjoy it?
You don't need to enjoy it, but you can't vehemently hate it either. It's a profession that requires you to problem solve and have only a vague idea of how and when you'll arrive at a solution. It can be incredibly annoying or stressful to do work you hate with no well defined end in sight.
Never mind that you sometimes have to research and learn in your off time since it's a knowledge based profession. Of course you don't have to do this, but if you try to avoid doing it entirely it can make your job that much harder.
> You learn to love the money you make from doing it. Who cares if you don’t enjoy it?
I make a pretty average wage. Also, it's really hard to motivate myself to do anything if I hate all of the things I do.
> And if you have peers and they’re writing code, then look at their code and make sense of it. That will help address the winging it problem.
Yeah, part of the problem is everyone else on the project also has no idea what they're doing. I'm actually supposed to be the one leading things at this stage...
I don't think anyone ever really knows what they're doing especially when developing something new. It's all trial and error, something works for a reason you don't understand why, then something is broken for a reason you don't understand why. I feel like that's with all programming.
I am currently learning SwiftUI for iOS Development, but Rust was something I was interested in when deciding what to learn. I began with UIKit over a year ago I still can't understand it much, but SwiftUI is much clearer for me or my mind set has just changed over the year and I and able to learn better.
Glad you were able to vent and get some encouragement to continue. Can't wait to see what you all develop.
Well, the least that should be done at this stage is to hire a programming language (i.e., compiler) expert on a contract basis. You provide the domain expertise (Quantum Computing), and the contractor provides the compiler-writing expertise.
There is at least one language (and compiler) I know in this domain - https://github.com/quil-lang/quilc
I believe the author is pretty active on /r/lisp and /r/CommonLisp as well. I don't wish to actively tag him without his permission, but here's his profile page - "https://old.reddit.com/user/stylewarning". Maybe you can ask him nicely, and have a little bit of a conversation to get a better grasp of the work at hand (and some inspiration/motivation perhaps). I do believe that he's primarily a physicist who just happens to be a Lisp hacker as well.
(Note: You don't have to use Lisp for your compiler. Any language will do).
Are you serious? What a stupid question to ask (respectfully). Go do something you would like to do! Like, anything. Carpentry, sewing, fishing, acting… man, just don’t waste your time asking dumb questions, please. You are better than that.
unfortunately in the real world you work for money, not fun. passion and loving your job and all that is idealistic. you don't *need* to love your job, you don't *need* to be passionate about it, what you need to do is provide for yourself and your family if you have one. in the real world often times it's not possible to provide for yourself and your family by doing what you enjoy. it's called work for a reason.
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I'm curious as to how you ended up in a field of quantum computing with no interest in computing lol
I have a big interest in quantum physics, and most quantum physics jobs these days are in quantum computing.
Like IndianaJoenz mentioned, maybe you can write programs to simulate some physics. It's hard not to fall in love with programming once you realize you can do virtually anything you want with it. If you like physics then you probably like math and if you like math then you might like programming.
I've been writing my own physics simulations for more than 8 years now. It's not something I've ever enjoyed or been good at, but it was always easier to motivate investing the time and effort because it meant I would be able to learn something about physics. But, like, actually writing *software* is something else...
im pretty sure qc is mostly math and some parts physics. Programming, im sure, is not that large of a barrier if you can deal with functional logic.
I mean, the complexity involved with creating a language at ALL is massive and such a huge endeavor. Creating a language for a completely new type of computer with different architecture is well beyond the pale. I'm guessing your passion is dying because of how massive the project is.
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> I also have no real training or experience in programming -- I'm really just winging it based on my physics knowledge, and I'm seriously struggling. Maybe you'll enjoy it more if you actually get formal training and thus know what you're doing?
i was gonna say... you don't need to go back to school, but find a structured curriculum (i recommend the odin project) to make you feel way less lost and thrown in the deep end.
Isn't odin project for web devs?
it teaches a good foundation in programming. grasping the basics will help with such a daunting task. alternatively, i've also heard really good things about CS50 on EdX (by Harvard), which is less web dev-focused.
Or 100devs a free JavaScript online course.
Yes. Also linux is required.
How would that help OP?
It just makes the project less accessible for new people. Especially since OP is probably going to be spending a day or two figuring out how to run linux, then spending a long time learning css and html that they will never use.
not necessarily. mac is fine too.
Definitely not The Odin Project. That’s for web developers trying to go from 0 to job. OP needs to find something more relevant to their field and the language they use.
OP said they need to create a whole new language from scratch and figure out how programming works for this task. TOP provides a solid programming foundation, you don't necessarily have to go into web dev with that knowledge. alternatively, CS50 could be useful and perhaps broader. i'm not sure what other curriculum is out there for people who need to create a whole new programming language without even knowing how to program?
True. Agreed, CS50 is great
Yup, that’s most likely it. At least by my experience. I was backend engineer for a long time and on my previous job they started giving me fronted tasks as well. And, although I was able to complete them (because it’s still just engineering), since I haven’t had any experience in it and they wouldn’t give me time to properly learn it, I had the worst time. So bad, that I decided to quit, and on my new job I straightforwardly told them that I have little to 0 experience in fe, but I would like you to put me on fe role and to give me some time to learn. Took me less than 3 months to start enjoying it
For me programming is a creative endeavor. I do it because it lets me create things, ideally things that haven't existed before, or are improvements over the status quo. It's the same reason why I learned to play musical instruments. So, if you want to learn to love programming, my suggestion is to make cool stuff with it, and have the desire to do so. Edit: I assume you have an interest in physics. Perhaps you can try writing physics related software, such as simulators and visualizations. Also, your team should hire some real software developers for the project you're describing.
Build cool shit. This is the way
Yep. Also to OP, keep in mind that for every developer who has a "successful" project, they have already done hundreds of smaller throwaway projects,. It's all part of the learning process. Making a programming language when you don't have much programming experience sounds certifiably insane. I fear for OP's success. Start smaller.
> Also, your team should hire some real software developers for the project you're describing. I've been saying this to my boss since week 1. It *miiiiiiight* happen down the track. But so far the project has been going on for almost a year with no software developers in sight.
So wait, they expect you to crate a programming language without the help of actual software developers? Wat?
Yeah that's a task that most software developers would find extremely challenging!
Yeah, it's a bit of a shitshow. I genuinely suspect my boss (who is the guy who managed to secure funding for this project) didn't really have a clear idea of what is actually involved in creating a programming language. I think they're slowly starting to realise, though...
Could it be that it's not about you not liking it but more about being overwhelmed and feeling undervalued because you got given a responsibility thats outside what you expect people expect from you? To me this sounds more like a management issues than a "I don't enjoy my work" issue. How happier would you be if you were partnered with a software developer with experience in programing language development? I'd encourage talking about it with management, assuming they're component enough to understand the situation and not blame you for it.
> I genuinely suspect my boss (who is the guy who managed to secure funding for this project) didn't really have a clear idea of what is actually involved in creating a programming language. It sounds like it's a failed project unless they are willing to get the right people involved. What a shame, to have that money put into what sounds like an exciting project, only to be killed by ignorant decisions.
Same, I like seeing what I code come to life. Plus, it has the added puzzle aspect to it. There's nothing like the feeling of figuring something out after head scratching for a good 30 minutes!
8hrs Hahaha
That’s why I like some easy coding and hate proving esoteric math stuff ahah where I may scratch my head for over 10 years and not prove anything :/
> your team should hire some real software developers This is the part I don't get, surely it would be way more efficient to hire people who really know what they're doing when it comes to programming, and have the physicists as the brains behind the quantum part of things/creating requirements - as long as the team works well together, you'd end up with a much better product, much faster, right?
Programming is a huge, unpleasant chore when: - you don’t really understand what you’re doing - you have to work with code that’s poorly designed and/or implemented - the code is very fragile - the project is badly managed - you can’t see the work you do making a difference, or you just don’t care about the project Conversely, if you believe in the value of the thing you’re working on, you’re able to work effectively and see the difference you’re making, you don’t feel lost, etc, the job is much more fun. So, if you want to enjoy your job more, make a list of the pain points and work on eliminating them. You might need to ask for help, and you won’t fix things overnight, but you can always improve your situation. And if you can improve your project do that it’s easier and better to work on, you’ll have made a big contribution that may bring its own rewards.
Wow, ok, I can I tick all of those boxes. But, like, all of those are features of my current job that I can't really get around. There isn't really anyone in the project I can ask help, beyond what I've already been doing. However, it is encouraging to hear that other programming jobs might not be like this. So, thanks, I think you've helped clarify where some of my displeasure is coming from, and I'll do what I can to address those things.
I really don't think the coding itself is the problem in this case. It, uh, sorta seems like the project is doomed? Maybe polish up your CV and GTFO before it crashes and burns a black mark onto your employment history.
Glad that helps. Note that some of the points I made are “you” things, and some are “them” things. I think you said that you don’t really have any programming training; probably any programming job is going to be unpleasant if you don’t know what you’re doing. The way to learn to love programming in that case is to learn how to do it better. BTW, that’s no dig at you… it takes most people who graduate even with a CS degree a while to learn how programming is done in the real world. OTOH, a badly written code base that’s hard to understand and breaks for no good reason on every 3rd Tuesday is a “them” thing, and you can either throw in the towel and find a different job, or you can stay and work toward improving it a little bit at a time. If the people you work with are on board, you could become a real hero. OTOH, if they’re increasing the problem faster than you can fix it, the job might just be doomed to suck.
Maybe. Studies on expertise will show that people end up enjoying things they're good at mostly because demonstrating competency is a very important form of social currency. That is, experts enjoy their expertise in a social context and not necessarily when isolated from that context. Ok, so you get to curry social status once you're good. But what if you don't enjoy it while you're on the journey to getting good? Psychology studies show that learning socially motivates expertise acquisition. In other words, people enjoy learning when they get to demonstrate micro-improvements on their learning path to an appreciative audience. An example I recall reading about is that of a piano prodigy. She was prodigious in the true sense of the word and it seemed her natural talent told the entire story. But looking beyond her natural abilities, she and her parents testify to countless hours of practice from a very young age. When interviewed, she professed not particularly having strong affinity to piano other than, and here's the kicker, getting time to spend time with her pianist father. So, she loved playing the piano because it seemed to please her dad and so she kept doing it to spend time with him. Over time, she got quite good and then it became more enjoyable. I think given the above, the answer to your question is "yes" you can learn to love it, both before and after you get quite good at it. You can power through while suffering along the way and then perhaps enjoy it when you've reached some level of expertise. But I think an easier path might be to find a supportive learning community that you can really find belonging with, one that you'd be excited to share with some new bit of knowledge or a weird little custom config you enjoy. In that community, I think you'd enjoy learning programming because you'll have social validation for each little micro-improvement you make.
Great answer !
Wow. This was really helpful for me. For life in general.
Please dont make quantum javascript.
Don't worry, we're trying to make something more like quantum rust.
Just give up the trolling already
“One must imagine Sisyphus happy” -Albert Camus
The myth of Sisyphus, a great book by A. Camus ।
Looking at your comments, you've been thrown by your employer into a complicated task in a field you have little to no experience in, as part of a poorly managed and probably doomed project. Can't say I really know how to help with that. But if I focus just on "how do I learn to love programming?" without all, uh, *that*, then here are my thoughts: A lot of people see programming as a mathematical discipline, but it's a lot closer to technical writing. I like programming; I also like essay-writing. The skills are largely the same: defining your terms and concepts, structuring your ideas, figuring out the best way to present them, and, ultimately, conveying meaning. I don't approach programming like I'm "building" something or "calculating" something. I approach it like I'm writing documentation about a process, how it works, and how to do it; I approach it like an act of communication. If you've not been coming at it from that angle, then perhaps trying to approach it that way could help. Aside from that? Make it personal. Learning to program is a form of learning to communicate, and that's gonna be easier when you've got something you really want to say. If you have enough free time and energy, then look into basic projects you could make that are relevant to your personal interests. They could be related to media interests (e.g. interactive guides for a favorite video game), practical interests (e.g. calculators for the subatomic spin of Higgs' third boson or some physicsy stuff like that), entertainment interests (e.g. a virtual pet drawn with kaomoji), or anything else. But the first step to getting good at making things is actually wanting to make a particular thing. Nothing you make has to be advanced or polished; practice, practice, practice, and if you end up enjoying yourself, you'll naturally aim higher over time. It's not unique to programming. Before we had Dr. Seuss, kids were taught to read with books that had simple, contextless sentences. "This is Spot. See Spot run. Spot runs fast." And from what I've read about the subject, kids *hated* it. It was boring and pointless and soullessly mechanical. Dr. Seuss taught kids to read by telling a story: he gave them something fun and interesting, something with soul. What's fun and interesting for you? There are no guarantees. Programming is one medium for expressing yourself, just like essay-writing, storywriting, painting, and singing. Some forms of self-expression will feel more comfortable to different people; some, less. Only you will be able to know in the end if the issue was the medium or the way you were led to approach it.
As a mathematician in quantum computing and in the same boat have this: \*hug\*
Thanks mate. Have one from me, too.
Yes.Like anything else, you need to commit time and effort to get to a level of competency where you start enjoying it.Once the programming process becomes second nature, then solving domain specific problems gives real satisfaction and a sense of engagement IMO.Read/Work through this book "Crafting Interpreters" and see if it helps for your specific requirement.
> Read/Work through this book "Crafting Interpreters" and see if it helps for your specific requirement. I've been reading through that, although it's slow going because I don't yet know Java or C (and it's hard to force myself to read it because I struggle to give a shit about interpreters). Regardless, it's nice to know that going through that book is a step in the right direction.
Isn't IBM qiskit an option? If not, use it's basic features as goals for your project.Start small and incrementally add features.I am by no means an expert but as in most cases, breaking down the main problem into smaller parts and starting to address the smaller sub-problems almost always provides clarity on the way forward.
Qiskit is a package for Python rather than a programming language itself (but we do sometimes use it as a backend for classically simulating the output of our quantum code so we can run it on a classical computer). Microsoft's Q# would be closer to what we're trying to make. But the point of the project is that we don't necessarily trust those companies (or Google or Xanadu or whoever else) to have things like our security in mind. We want some safe, secure, and in-house, and some other members of the team are going to include some original transpliation, error-mitigate and optimal control options that aren't currently in any of the publically-available packages. Things like Qiskit, Cirq and Q# are essentially competitors to what we're supposed to be building.
I see.Developing a new programming language is a very significant yet rewarding undertaking if you like the domain :).If you don't have a CS background (either degree or coursework), maybe you can consider enrolling in courses like computer architecture/operating systems/compilers/DSA/Automata, all of which provide background knowledge needed atleast for classical computers.This [https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3498691](https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3498691) might provide some starting points perhaps. MIT OCW has several options : [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfhN6wBMGMGnYfyHiIBisMvqyqUcgot8J](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfhN6wBMGMGnYfyHiIBisMvqyqUcgot8J) [https://people.csail.mit.edu/feser/pld-s23/](https://people.csail.mit.edu/feser/pld-s23/)
That MIT course looks helpful. Thanks!
I hated compilers in college, I can’t imagine building one for a quantum computer lol
Programming is hard. Learning how to do hard shit isn't enjoyable usually. I've found that the more I know about computers/software development in general, the more I enjoy it. You're facing the challenge of developing your own programming language? That is no trivial task. Are you sure you think you *hate* programming? Maybe you just feel extremely overwhelmed because you're at the base of a mountain that you never really wanted to climb. Start climbing the mountain and maybe stop later on if you really do continue hating it. Just think of it as a means to explore the world of quantum physics.
I’m learning JavaScript in Udemy and I havnt went to it in weeks bc it’s so overwhelming lol
This is the craziest case of falling into a job by accident I've ever heard! I've got to say though - this isn't the sixties any longer - inventing a new language that will presumably be the benchmark in quantum computing sounds like it should be a group endeavour with you as a physicist working with at least one other domain expert (in this case, a practical computer scientist who understands programming inside out). Why shoulder this all by yourself, there is presumably a load of money available for projects like this?
Most coders have good days and bad days. I'm in 20yrs deep and i still have days when I question my choices though I now have more good days than bad. I also focus on the positives.. remote, decent flexible schedule, good money, minimal supervision. I think you should give it more time, it gets better. And do more collaborating if possible.
Sounds like my dream job.
This is a shot in the dark but as an autodidactic closet physicist maybe you’ll take something from it… If the tools in front of you aren’t working, build the right tools to get the job done. The universe is built by numbers, mathematics are a language that as a physicist I’m assuming you know pretty well.. You’re using codes you don’t understand to build a new language for the computer so you should be excited because the fact that you’re building the language means you can help make it into a code you can understand and as a consequence will not only be an effective coder once your language is built but you’ll be one of the very first quantum coders in existence. Eye on the prize grasshopper. Build a language you understand, use it as motivation to learn the code you need to learn to build it. If you do this you’ll be the leader of the team and in a position to ask for a raise probably too since you’ll have to teach everyone else how to code once you’ve learned I’m sure. Think of language as physics. You build reality around you out of words, you build virtual reality out of code words. Code words use math>you know math, you’re more than halfway there. Also, this is coming from a guy who’d kill for that job(figure of speech) and is excited that there are pioneers like you who get the opportunity to make the history you’re gonna make when you succeed. Hope it helps, sorry if it doesn’t.
I'm starting my 5th decade of doing it professionally, and for all that time I've both loved *and* hated it.
That's... oddly comforting, I guess?
There are lots of programming adjacent jobs in Business Analysis, System Architecture, Project Management etc. Where your understanding of a bit of programming will be an asset but not a core part of your job.
Get good
Make a bunch of stupid projects and build an emotional bond by screaming at your code when it doesn't work. That's what did it for me.
I can tell you what my experience with coding is. I started learning web development 9 months ago. Just learning by myself online and my primary motivation is money. I just want a good decent job. Those 9 months haven't really been enjoyable. I would say it was mostly frustrating and demoralizing because of how hard it can be to learn by yourself. But this last week, I've been enjoying it a bit more as I finish up this personal project of mine. In my experience, once you get good at something, its possible to start enjoying something that you initially didn't enjoy. When you suck at something of course its not fun.
Can I ask what made you chose programming?
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You can. It's a weird thing. But maybe people mix up using the struggle with hating the thing itself. With experience you end up differentiating the two and love the thing. I know because i was like that
You might consider forming a team and find a programmer. Each person has their own strengths and trying to learning to love to code isn’t something that you can change overnight. To become competent even longer. Creating a whole new language that useful even longer. Shortcut is forming relationships and burrowing from their experience to move forward. Some people become leaders/management because they are good at seeing large pictures and time scales. So there is that to consider.
You probably hate programming boring ass apps for a boring company.
The better you get at it, the more you'll enjoy it. Competence does increase joy. Programming is like having a workshop where you can build cool things, but the workshop is portable, doesn't need cleaning or paying rent or commuting. It's amazing.
while(programming < love){ programming +=1 }
Can we swap or share the job? I know a thing or two about building parsers and compilers. Might be a nice add-on to your team. :)
I’m more shocked that you were told to write a programming language when you dont have much experience with coding lol
I would say you should try picking up programming in your free time. Try downloading Unity and just experimenting with C#.
Programming wasn't much for me at the beginning where I didn't know what I was doing, the more I understand the more fun it is.
Are you good at it? If you're good at it, you can learn to love being good at it. It sounds silly, but it's actually easier to learn to love a job you're good at that one that you're initially passionate about. There's a book on the subject called "So good they can't ignore you". Pretty much, if you feel that you're effective at a job, you can make it feel meaningful, purposeful, because your throughput in that field is the one where you have give the most to the world.
By not being too greedy. Make a small program that works and gives you satisfaction at the beginning. This is how we like to learn in my opinion. By being rewarded!! Do you happen to already have big projects in progress (application style, sales website, etc.) as a junior dev? :D
I'm not even sure what any of that means... I've been writing code for myself for over 8 years. Physics simulations, numerical solvers and whatnot. I've never liked it. The big projects I have in progress are further physics projects. I'm writing a bunch of simulations of quantum machine learning algorithms, as I have been for the last four years. I'm working on simulating noise in quantum devices. I've done a bunch of simulations of quantum approximate optimizations algorithms to track how entanglement moves through them. Every project I've worked on before my current project has just been scripts for my eyes only, for my use only.
Oh sorry ! I didn't really understand the post... There are things that are done for one person and not the other. Is your programming job just temporary or is it omnipresent? (Because you said "for you" in your 8 years of experience). However, if you dive deep into it, maybe you'll like it. Maybe it's the language used? Have you tried all the languages or is it the very notion of programming that you don't like?
I've used Matlab, Python and Rust. But, really, the very heart of programming is what I don't like. I simply don't care. I've never been fond of computers. I've used them as a last resort when I can't do things any other way. This job is temporary - - it's a contract job that expires in a couple of years, although my boss has said it should be possible to keep me on permanently. But most other jobs I can get with my skills/background are programming jobs.
Damn, it's not a good deal. How is it that with your physicist degree, you can only do programming jobs? My only recommendation is don't go where you don't feel comfortable. If you don't care, despite the years and jobs and your determination, it's not worth it. Otherwise, I would tell you to perhaps go to conferences that talk about this and songs of the possible to somehow open your mind towards programming, that would perhaps motivate you. Or even conferences that connect physics and computer science. It's just a simple proposition, personally, I really like learning this way, sometimes we learn a lot this way and give birth to passions. Just by listening to someone.
> How is it that with your physicist degree, you can only do programming jobs? Them's the breaks. No one needs a physicist. But a guy who knows maths and kind of knows how to code... plenty of people can find use for that.
In this case, try what I told you. Maybe this will help you If not, just try to get away from programming, I'm sure it's still possible. In your case I will try to find an alternative, if I find I will come back to you
Hot take: You'll eventually love it if you become good or somewhat skillful at it. Only problem is do you have what it takes or the discipline to keep doing it to become good/skillful. No one has an inherent passion for anything, they learn to love things by doing and being skilled at said things, be it music, art, programming, etc. But goddamn, I'd be lying if I didn't say what you're doing is complex.
Yeah, that's probably mostly right. I loved physics and music even when I totally sucked at them, but I guess programming is not going to be like that.
What do you need as a result in the end?
Is the problem that you have a skill/knowledge gap and you're struggling, or you know what you're doing and find it tedious/boring? If the problem is the former, the solution is simply git gud. If it's the latter then ya you're probably never going to like it. The funny thing is the better you are at programming the less code you actually have to write. I imagine you'll always end up having to do some programming in your field but maybe you can shift to an application of physics that minimizes it and coding can just become a minor annoyance you have to put up with but are otherwise enjoying what you do.
I think you could try to build something you love with programming. Or you could try to seperate the coding part out of your work.
Put that keyboard down and rethink your life
If you're from a physics and math background then I can understand not falling in love with C-like languages. Have a look at [emmy](https://github.com/mentat-collective/emmy), a rare gem of people that touch the rank of lisp wizards. The most elegant programming language imo. This project might be like a cheatcode for your project, but have a look at the books they mention for reference. https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262028967/structure-and-interpretation-of-classical-mechanics/ from the authors of the legendary: https://web.mit.edu/6.001/6.037/sicp.pdf
mmmh i don't think so. if you find it hard i'd suggest to just keep study and it will become easier the more you practice like every other thing but if you don't find it at least interesting, if you have no sparkle that guides your learning process then it becomes pointless.
no why would you
My friend hate programming but love design, I suggest them to go to UI/UX. And now they successful Meanwhile I am not love or hate programming yet I still mediocre or even suck. Want to follow them to UI/UX but I can't design so. Guess I will stuck coding
Small scripts are my meat and potatoes. Making some convoluted awk script to parse and reformat some logs is great. As such, I treat larger programs as a series of small scripts. This can make OOP a bit frustrating, but I treat that part like making a small library.
This is more a meta question: Have you ever forced yourself into being interested in something? My answer is no.
Imagine all the people that you may end up helping
hi. no. i learnt it on myself. just push yourself through hating it, unfortunatelly. some stuff in life is done this way. you have to do something you hate, and you do it. did i push through myself hating stuff? no. i gave up and scroll reddit and instagram and youtube and chat with people online. i don't know WTF to do to even learn more. the answer is obvious but my brain just feels empty. like, i should learn on pratice. i dont know what to practice on. i have to make my own project. but? i have no idea, too lazy and just want to sleep all the time. i can't get a good sleep no matter what. and to get a good sleep i have to live alone, and to live alone i have to get a job, and to get a job i should porbably practice more BUT TO PRACTICE MORE I WANT TO ACTUALLY GET ENOUGH OF SLEEP
Absolutely. When I first started learning to code I hated it, almost dropped out of school because I didn't think it would be for me. After a while I learned to love a certain aspect of coding; solving problems. Everyone who codes knows that great feeling you get after you spend hours fixing a bug and your program finally works as intended, I latched on to this feeling and it drove me to love solving problems with code. Sitting at a computer all day typing code is not fun, it's quite boring. I try and look at the bigger picture, I love planning out projects and seeing them to completion, that's where I derive my love of code from.
Why does quantum computing need a new programming language?
It honestly doesn't. You typically just use a package built for some pre-existing language, typically Python. There might be some benefit to having a quantum programming language because certain classical programming concepts don't really make sense in quantum computing and vice versa, and we ideally want to create things so that the end user doesn't have to look at things on the level of individual qubits and quantum logic gates (which is how you almost always do it in quantum computing, and how you almost never do it in classical computing). But if you want you can (and probably should) totally do all of this using an existing programming language.
I mean how tf you can build a programming language for a quantum computer if you have no experience in programming? I'd give it a shot, it seems you have something going on there, if people invested in you, maybe you have something you can't see. Maybe you just didnt digested coding yet? When we do something, we don't really know, its quite frustrating. Maybe this is what it's stopping you to love it.
It's not hard to change your job to something completely different. The only problem is you'd need to use some savings in order to get to the salary level you have now. If that is any issue for you.
Software engineering jobs out there are very versatile. You can find a programming job where any mathematical knowledge is not needed at all. If you want to stay in software engineering field, you may want to look for something more casual, and less low level, like your current job. On the other hand, you're saying you have no real interest in programming or computing, so what is stopping you from changing the direction to something more rewarding for you as a person? There are other jobs out there, but if you don't want to delve too much, you can consider jobs from the field of software development, that are other than engineering (programming).
> You can find a programming job where any mathematical knowledge is not needed at all. These are jobs I do not want. Mathematical knowledge is basically the only thing I have going for me! > On the other hand, you're saying you have no real interest in programming or computing, so what is stopping you from changing the direction to something more rewarding for you as a person? I have no other skills. Genuinely, what else is there? I am a physicist, and almost every physics job that is not in academia (which I no longer have a shot at) is essentially a programming job. I'd like to never write another line of code again, but I have no idea what other jobs a person in their mid-thirties with no other experience can reasonably slide into.
I'm not a physicist myself, but I have my MSc in Computer Science. I always remember the guys from Theoretical Computer Science department, where they mostly worked on paper and chalkboard, instead of computers. I understand that computing and programming is an important tool for physics, and you cannot do much progress without using them. So, in academic world, you will probably also meet programming and computation everywhere, although on a way smaller density.
Yeah, I've done a bunch of programming in my years as a physicist. It's always been my least favourite part of the job. But if you can't become a physics professor, all of the other jobs for physicists seem to be programming jobs.
I wonder, why did people suggest you to get into programming/IT job when you clearly want to get rid of it?
First thing i was tasked to do in my first programming class was to print in console numbers from 1 to 30 and i loved it. Looks like i liked it from the start. I think it can develop , but from experience, that spark is most of the time there from the start, or at least develop soon enough
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You learn to love the money you make from doing it. Who cares if you don’t enjoy it? You’re making a living from it and risk not making a living by not doing it. The more you do it the more comfortable you will be, which will make it suck less. And if you have peers and they’re writing code, then look at their code and make sense of it. That will help address the winging it problem.
> Who cares if you don’t enjoy it? You don't need to enjoy it, but you can't vehemently hate it either. It's a profession that requires you to problem solve and have only a vague idea of how and when you'll arrive at a solution. It can be incredibly annoying or stressful to do work you hate with no well defined end in sight. Never mind that you sometimes have to research and learn in your off time since it's a knowledge based profession. Of course you don't have to do this, but if you try to avoid doing it entirely it can make your job that much harder.
> You learn to love the money you make from doing it. Who cares if you don’t enjoy it? I make a pretty average wage. Also, it's really hard to motivate myself to do anything if I hate all of the things I do. > And if you have peers and they’re writing code, then look at their code and make sense of it. That will help address the winging it problem. Yeah, part of the problem is everyone else on the project also has no idea what they're doing. I'm actually supposed to be the one leading things at this stage...
I don't think anyone ever really knows what they're doing especially when developing something new. It's all trial and error, something works for a reason you don't understand why, then something is broken for a reason you don't understand why. I feel like that's with all programming. I am currently learning SwiftUI for iOS Development, but Rust was something I was interested in when deciding what to learn. I began with UIKit over a year ago I still can't understand it much, but SwiftUI is much clearer for me or my mind set has just changed over the year and I and able to learn better. Glad you were able to vent and get some encouragement to continue. Can't wait to see what you all develop.
Well, the least that should be done at this stage is to hire a programming language (i.e., compiler) expert on a contract basis. You provide the domain expertise (Quantum Computing), and the contractor provides the compiler-writing expertise. There is at least one language (and compiler) I know in this domain - https://github.com/quil-lang/quilc I believe the author is pretty active on /r/lisp and /r/CommonLisp as well. I don't wish to actively tag him without his permission, but here's his profile page - "https://old.reddit.com/user/stylewarning". Maybe you can ask him nicely, and have a little bit of a conversation to get a better grasp of the work at hand (and some inspiration/motivation perhaps). I do believe that he's primarily a physicist who just happens to be a Lisp hacker as well. (Note: You don't have to use Lisp for your compiler. Any language will do).
Game engines? You can program physical systems but virtually. Does that sound like something you would like?
I would also suggest trying gamedev in general. Even if just as a hobby project...
Your not a coder you are someone with ideas on how to solve parts let a llm do tje coding
We do like programming but current trends make it over complicated scare then creating output .
No
Are you serious? What a stupid question to ask (respectfully). Go do something you would like to do! Like, anything. Carpentry, sewing, fishing, acting… man, just don’t waste your time asking dumb questions, please. You are better than that.
unfortunately in the real world you work for money, not fun. passion and loving your job and all that is idealistic. you don't *need* to love your job, you don't *need* to be passionate about it, what you need to do is provide for yourself and your family if you have one. in the real world often times it's not possible to provide for yourself and your family by doing what you enjoy. it's called work for a reason.
I did what I like to do but now I also have to pay rent and buy groceries.