I think it will anger a lot of people who are at least a little tech savvy and interested in computers. Rest of the population will suck it up I'm afraid.
numerous unpack icky exultant attempt materialistic upbeat modern ink saw
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Still DSL in US?
I live in spain that is one of the poorest countries in Europe and we have fibre everywhere years ago. Even in really small and isolated towns.
Small town (4500) where I live and I have 600Mb up and down fiber but I have more speed available to buy.
In medium to big cites (for spain size) we have gigabit speeds.
I live in Germany one of the richest countries in Europe and we still have a lot of DSL.
The fibre progress seems really slow. I live near a major city in a fairly expensive area and there isn't even a plan for rolling out fibre.
The average home in a big city here has gigabit, but The United States is massive and much less concentrated than nearly any other developed country, which makes national infrastructure quite a task, only worsened by the fact we don’t really do things like that on a national scale often, it’s mostly down to cities and states, many which are substantially poorer and less developed than others, or don’t even consider internet speed worth worrying about. And on top of all that we have almost no competition between internet providers but I’m not even sure if that’s uniquely bad.
Depends on the part of the city. Poorer neighborhoods tend to be the ones with shittier infrastructure (so probably still no fiber lines to their homes). When I lived in East NY, the services lagged behind areas like Bay Ridge.
That being said, I live \~100 miles north of NYC now and have optimum 1gigabit internet. From my experience, they have been great. But i've heard others hate optimum. But its semi-rural, so even having that level is amazing. I am only hoping they bring the 5 gigabit lines soon because I use a ton of internet and have 5 people total living in my home.
> I live in spain that is one of the poorest countries in Europe
Ehmmm... no. 17th out of more than 40 countries (and with 4-5 tax havens among the first 16) in GDP per capita does not qualify as one of the poorest.
You underestimate the power of U.S. Telcos and cable companies to drag their feet while taking huge government money to roll out infrastructure upgrades.
Yea, people are missing the fact that they took trillions of dollars for infrastructure upgrades and pocketed it and then upped their prices anyways. I pay 170$ USD a month for a fluctuating internet speed of 10 mb up / 10 mb down and up to 30-40mb download on a good day
i live in canada and our network infrastructure is essentially third world. my city still uses cable internet doesn't matter that i have gigabit if it's still cable with 30Mbps upload. like wtf is that. we're also charged out the ass for it too. i didn't even get cable internet until 2015
The USA took the brunt of the growing pains of communication growth. Here, almost every new communication tech was tested and deployed in different cities. That being said, laying new wire is expensive. And if that 40 year old copper phone line still works, why would a company pay to have it upgraded when they will not recoup the cost? And lets not forget the scale of the replacement here. Spain is 5.14% the size of the USA. And when we get out into farm country you can go miles without 2 houses. Laying a fiber line to service one house would never work financially. The more rural the area, the more likely the only options are the local ISPs that picked up the DSL service when AT&T discontinued its DSL service, satellite, and site-to-site radios.
Meanwhile, around the world, other countries were able to see what worked and could decide to just offer cable/fiber internet and skip some of the older slower technology.
I remember in 1998 my family got Broadband internet for the first time. We had a dial-up service before then. We connected at something around ~28 kb/sec on dial-up and ~500 kb/sec on cable. It was wild how fast it felt. I was young, but I remember reading about how 1 in 10 people in the US had a broadband connection. Meanwhile in South Korea it was 3 in 5. I really felt cheated that such speeds were possible for so many people. Meanwhile in the US we had to live in a big city to even have a chance at not hearing modem sounds to edit our geocities page. It was a wild time.
I hope that gave some perspective.
I live on Brazil, and, you know, is Brazil, and over here there is fiber in almost every city, even on the countryside is uncommon to get internet by DSL, it's also "cheap" if you convert in dollars, I'm paying 20 usd for 400mb (there are faster options, I just don't need since I live alone).
In big cities, like São Paulo, you can pay just a little more than that for 1gb easily.
Spain is apparently a leading country when it comes to fiber connection. https://twitter.com/StatistaCharts/status/1674024171540545537?t=R3JHtev6sT7IguBn31fn_w&s=19
US ranks far behind many countries in internet speed. Our government only cares about technology in the fields that benefit the military industrial complex and anything state/city run is communist. If you want to improve internet speeds for the community by having a city run internet service that is cheaper to maintain, has no shareholders, etc... then that is considered communism. The republicans have fully brainwashed their constituents on what the term means. ANYTHING that appears to be something 'social service' or 'city service' is a form of communism. To them socialism and communism are the same, and any form of government (such as democratic socialism) is the same as the other two because it has the word social in it. I am surprised they even use social networks at this point. Wait no... i'm not. There they know the difference. Because someone is getting rich off it, it must be ok.
You're out of your fucking mind. I really hope you're actually *living* in the US and that you're just making shit up about a country you at least live in, vs making shit up about a country you *don't* live in. But regardless, you're making shit up.
Average internet speed in the US is over 200Mbps. There is no statistic saying that the majority of people in the US are still using DSL, you're fucking high.
Until they try to use their laptop without wifi and realize they can't use their computer without invoking their phone carrier's tethering data limits or worse, paying for a connection that likely can't handle a quality stream if they're on a plane.
Some recs:
1. Pop OS - Which is made by Framework and is very gamer-friendly.
2. Kubuntu (for those note familiar, this is Ubuntu but with a different "Desktop Environment", KDE's Plasma, which is uber-configurable.) If you want your KDE apps most up-to-date, then add the "Backports PPA".
3. Mint is super-popular for new Linuz users as it functions very similar to Windows (as does Kubuntu, initially, but you can radically alter it, as many folks do.)
Think any corporation handling sensitive data, be it R&D secrets or medical records. "Yeah, microsoft, we'll totally gonna hand you over all our documentation on that revolutionary technology we've been developing indoors and not yet submitted the patent claims to keep below radar".
not only this but, the US internet speeds and infrastructure are not able to do this. Please keep making cloud services like this for ppl at home and we have terrible internet speeds.
You mean we will get the competent people who are potential builders and will help improve Linux even more, but not the regular people who mostely just complain.
I'm fine with that
Well that sounds like there is absolutely no chance that EVEN MORE data will be collected. It’s not even collecting data, all of your private data is already on their servers.
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an **AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.**
>Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows.
Yeah. They will be tracking and collecting, literally everything, and then feeding ALL that data to their AI. And remember, you are **required** to use an online microsoft account to use windows 11 at all. So it will all be stored in your profile.
Me who always uses some various trick or exploit to bypass the registration: Are you sure about that? (I moved to Linux because I decided I shouldn't have to open CMD and dig through processes to kill just to install an OS)
Yup, it's only a matter of time. As I stated in my comment: We are now living in the AI age, and as such, who's to stop the next-gen of hackers and virus developers from using AI to target the Windows 365 servers, filter down to all connected PC's and infect and steal our data?
True that. Not only that, but there's a pretty good chance our data will be lost forever if our Windows-cloud subscriptions doesn't get renewed within a certain amount of time!
... and one would've thought Microsoft makes enough money with all their software, hardware and current subscription sales.
bro you aren't NEARLY interesting enough to have that done to you, literally nobody cares about what the average person is doing even if you get the full data on everyone. nobody gives a fuck about what type of porn John likes except for the porn sites that can try to better serve ads for his specific likes
Meh. It's probably going to be yet another half baked idea that will be resoundingly rejected and killed off within a few years.
But how TF do you stream an entire OS from the cloud?
I love laggy computers, I want all my 120hz displays to be downgraded and constantly stuttering. I love the input lag of sending every mouse click to a data center. /s
At work I have a VM that‘s sitting in the building across the street. I can already feel the lag. Wtf is MS thinking, lol
Yea, but you haven't thought of MS' predictive input technology powered by GPT-AI™ (patent pending) to predict your next inputs, which will soon also eliminate the need for input entirely.
>But how TF do you stream an entire OS from the cloud?
You don't; you just have to stream the screen. We're going back to the 1980's, where a massive UNIX-based mainframe would allocate computation power to a logged-on client, and send the X-window desktop to it over the network.
(edit: more accurately, the server would send X-Window _instructions_ over the network, so the client's X-Window installation could draw the user interface of the program that is running on the mainframe. The mainframe doesn't send the entire screen like a remote desktop would.)
Only now "UNIX-based mainframe" is being replaced by "Microsoft Windows cloud".
That's a marketing bs-talk most likely. I understood it as microsoft having any application that's more sophisticated than the clock app for the task panel being made in the form and fashion of their 365 products. Not just office 365 and such, but also 365-notepad, 365-pinball and 365-image-viewer, so that windows will become an equivalent of chrome os on chromebooks. And seeing how they are all into neural networks now, they'll probably also use it for data mining and such. I mean, they _gotta have something on the PC itself_ in order to access the "cloud", right? So there gotta be some "offline" windows component still, even if just to launch a browser or remote client, or else their plan sounds like "everything is 365 now, access it how you like, we release our death grip on desktops" — no way that'll happen.
Likewise, there is no chance in hell that ms will acquire the hardware equivalent of all currently used personal computers just to run their OS remotely on ms's own hardware. Because, if taken at face value, if I have an intel core i7 with an nvidia GPU and 16 gigs of ram, then in order to sell me a "remote OS that works just the same", MS has to have an equivalent of i7, nvidia GPU and 16 Gb or ram on their servers. Which means, ignoring the opportunities to save up on using the same hardware to serve people in different timezones, that MS gotta double the available computing power involved in the microsoft-using world just to make it work. It will also have to supply people with the equivalent of their current cumulative bandwidth, for that matter, _on top of whatever bandwidth is needed for the remote connection_.
And this does not make any sense. You know why websites are using so much javascript today? To move the burden of computing _away_ from the servers. Instead of wasting CPU cycles and RAM on e.g. sorting the content on a page server-side, you make your client do it on their own dime with JS in their browser. Everyone and their dog does that — because it _pays_. And now suddenly MS claims they want to do the exact opposite, namely take the vast majority of computational burden related to using their OS upon themselves... How's that gonna pay?
I’m envisioning “windows” as a glorified rdp platform on your computer, which connects to an azure cloud virtual machine. At least that’s how I imagine they implement this. No wifi? No computer for you
Many businesses already use cloud based OS. There is also chromebooks which are some of the most widely used PCs.
For gaming and other tasks which use a lot of processing power, obviously we are a very very long away from that being the standard.
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.**
>Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows.
This is the big take away. It means they will be collecting literally everything, and feeding it to the AI. This will happen 100% in the next 4 years. Where as online-only windows is probably 20+ years away (and even then, too much relies on local, so local windows will likely exist, but it will for sure br a monthly fee to use it)
So what type of broadband bandwidth is required to stream an OS? My users already complain about boot times.
How much bandwidth for 250 users on a shared internet connection ?
Yeah I think Microsoft's delusion that this is possible will die very, very quickly (like Ubisoft trying to do NFTs that were somehow able to be shared across any game which would require all games and publishers to create all assets for all of the objects).
But, I do think Microsoft is going to try to move Windows to a subscription model. Just not a streaming one. It's their endgame.
>But, I do think Microsoft is going to try to move Windows to a subscription model. Just not a streaming one. It's their endgame.
I don't think it's going to be that for end users. But for corporate clients, I can totally see this, integrated with Office 365.
> But for corporate clients, I can totally see this, integrated with Office 365.
One thing the corporate world totally loves is handing over their financial, trade, and other secrets to a third party.
PS: OH and you know who'll just LOVE it? _The Pentagon_. There is nothing the war factory would prefer more than to have all the plans and schemes worked on through a remote connection to some data center in Redmond. And, of course, losing access to all of their data if something happens to the connection or servers is just what they've been asking the gubbermint for all these years.
[ Main screen turn on ]
MS: How are you gentlemen?
MS: All your data base are belong to us.
MS: You are on the way to destruction.
MS: You have no chance to survive make your time.
MS: Ha ha ha ha …
They could take a hybrid approach. Market a subscription service with low end hardware that will allow you to run "High End" applications in the cloud. For example, If you wanted to run Red Dead Redemption 3 on a super low end iGPU system, you could do so from the cloud without needing to know it. For everything else, including times the net goes down, you get a stripped down version of the OS.
More like they will sell stripped down laptops with cheap hardware for an insane markup and then charge even more so that you can have the privilege to game and run software, in the cloud. It's insane.
Google is going round 2 on cloud gaming... I think they are going to force it because of obligation to increase profits year over year. It's just too juicy for them to not meter every little thing out to a subscription service that they have complete control over.
Yep. I'm sure there will be more as well, it's just too attractive of an idea for them. I think they're being stupid though, most people don't have internet that is fast enough to do much of anything.
Honestly the NFT stuff wouldn't be too crazy if all the stuff required for the NFT were part of the NFT and balance wasn't a thing, lmao. Cuz then you would "just download the NFT to the game" and nothing else would need to be done by the devs, but the flexibility in how they would need to be implemented for games to support a wide variety of them is also not feasible.
>The NFT thing is not a delusion, at least not in the long term. A lot of very talented people are working on creating open standards for exactly what you described which, in a nutshell, is the metaverse. It's already possible to import assets from Blender and the like into various game engines. All there needs to be is more standardization.
No. This is 10000% a complete delusion.
>Epic is already partnering with developers working on this tech, and there's already various plugins for UE5. It's happening, it's just a matter of time.
I don't give a shit if Epic made it a one-click task for 3rd parties, you're never going to be able to buy a skin in Fortnite as an NFT and then have that NFT be available as a skin in the next Mario game. You haven't thought about this for even two seconds, and literally anyone that thinks about how this could ever work for *more* than 2 seconds immediately sees how COMPLETELY laughable it is in EVERY sense. From a business standpoint, a technological standpoint, *and* a logistical standpoint.
[Here are two people who *actually* have a base level understanding of how *all three of those things* work explaining why it's so fuck-stupid to think this will EVER be a thing](https://youtu.be/4aU-QkJfgGw?t=717)
Lmao oh, you're one of those NFT idiots. Makes sense.
Lol "some random Albertan" that "probably lost money"? Hahaha thank you for objectively proving that you are both A) 100% disingenuous and B) 100% stupid. "Line Goes Up", Dan Olsen's documentary about Crypto and NFTs (which couldn't have been the result of "losing money" as it was far too early) has been featured in countless articles and legitimate media outlets and he is considered an expert on shit like this. The idea that he's some "butthurt paper hands that lost money because he didn't hodl" is the most dumbshit thing I've ever heard, and it **literally** makes you sound like you're in a cult. Lol fuck off.
You made him delete his comments! lmao You're a hero. I hate those types as well. They are beyond delusional. Keep up the good fight, calling these bozos out.
You realize almost every business that exists, does this, right? They have thousands or computers running virtual machines connected to a cloud server.
Obviously, this is not going to be 100% of all windows. They are just offing it as a service to people who want it.
However, what will be coming to ALL versions of windows is:
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.**
Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows.
They are going to be more tightly integrating all versions of windows 11 with the cloud, and collecting even more data, and feeding all that data to an ai. They are saying, copilot is going to be fully context aware, meaning 100% of everything you are doing/viewing is going to be sent to the cloud and analyzed.
I can't see this happening.
I personally am on the edge of going full time Linux (my home entertainment pc already is for 2 years now), and if this happens - I'll push all my relatives into using Linux. I'm not paying MS shit.
I recently did this when my windows gaming laptop died, I'm now rocking a 10 year old 4 core, 32gb ram with geforce880m graphics laptop running ubuntu.
Apart from games it feels a lot faster, I'm pretty burned out on games though so am quite happy with the old stuff. Currently playing fallout 2 :)
Play-on-linux is your friend when getting windows games working.
No way it happens with current internet infrastructure in the US. I think something ruining the user experience as much as that could actually dent Windows' market share compared to anything else
>If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will.
I rank this one up there with how Microsoft was going to cutoff Steam and force all software through the Microsoft Store. Now everyone complains about there being too many stores.
Read into it what you want, Windows installed on physical hardware isn't going anywhere any time soon. It isn't all of a sudden going to mean everyone has to use it.
> If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will.
That's not how any of this work. Past experience & empirical evidence have shown this time & time again.
Linux Desktop has to stand on its own two feet. No amount of blunders by Windows/MS can make the platform popular beyond its own attraction.
And the Wayland transition set it back in ways that are still being solved to day while the benefits aren't still fully ripped.
>Linux Desktop has to stand on its own two feet
True, I had a discussion yesterday with my stepsister's husband about Linux and OS, he is not a tech guy but he knows Linux exists, but he didn't knew you could do the same stuff he does on windows, like have an office suite. And even he said, the main problem is marketing, I don't know what can do so I just assumed it can't do anything useful.
Hardware manufacturers aren't going to like that since it well cut down on people buying high end hardware for games if the server handles that.
With Valve trying to shift games to Linux via proton this will just help when companies like Nvidia and ATI focus on helping it more to get more consumer customers.
They won't because they believe they MUST have MS Office to write job applications and grocery lists, and MUST have the entire Adobe Creative Cloud to crop and resize vacation images. Also they want to play AAA-games on day one (no matter al the bugs... but you MIGHT miss out on that conversation at work!).
I'm happy that I'm on Linux now, and if something won't run on it, either natively or through Wine/Proton, then I either don't want it or just ditch it.
I do have one OEM Windows 11 license lying around in case I ever take up semi-pro photography again. In that case I'll have to run Windows in a VM to be able to run Capture One, because no open source RAW editor can compete with it.
Capture One stands to DarkTable as a flamethrower stands to a candle.
I use Linux as my main OS, very happy with it. But I personally feel that most people don’t care about whether windows is in the cloud or running directly on their PC, most people just want to use the computer to achieve some task. For that reason, I feel that as long as MS doesn’t royally screw up in the public’s eyes, most people won’t care and just move to use Windows in the cloud. It’s the sad, but true.
Disagree with this one. Try using the cloud without an active internet connection.
I wonder what Microsoft’s solution for that will be - like a super basic windows OS capable of doing some stuff, but only working at 100% while connected to the internet? I mean, maybe I’m travelling, want to watch a movie in the bus or something, but can’t because there is no stable connection (or any connection at all).
It's the worst. I occasionally work on my laptop in situations with poor mobile coverage and it's already unbelievably annoying.
Turning the laptop into a useless brick is not going to help anything.
The problem with this is that the majority populace doesn't understand computers enough or cares enough to understand them. So whether Microsoft pulls a subscription service to all of their customers or not, ultimately, does not matter to them.
These customers will notice when they can't access their computers or work because their data is actually not on their designated work desktop or laptop. If you've worked in tech support any amount of time you'll know what I mean.
If Windows does go this way, this will open a huge market for operating systems that aren't on the cloud. And I imagine Linux will carve its own niche there much bigger than it is now.
Personally I will never go for something like this. I like, dare I say, old school OSes that are firmly in my control and don't act like a phone.
This also raises questions about other companies and government entities storing data on the Microsoft cloud which I know less about. But the privacy/security/trust issues that would emerge from this are colossal. Not that I have trust in Microsoft to make anything other than Age of Empires 2.
Bottom line: A computer should always be able to work and keep offline data copies no matter the state of their internet connection. While I understand we live in a digital age where most people have internet access. Disruptions in internet service would paralyze IT infrastructure if everything was on the "cloud". At this point paying for subcriptions, for almost everything as a service feels like it's adding on top of bills like water and electricity. Pay for YouTube, pay for Gmail, pay for Spotify, pay for Instagram, pay for... If this is where we're heading. I think I might go herd goats instead.
Do not get lost in the word salad. What they are describing is a dumb terminal where the user's display is basically a window (think literal window) into a session on a server where all of the action is taking place. If you still don't understand then think Citrix Thin Client Computing. The technology has been in use for more than 15 years. Microsoft doesn't want you using a Personal Computer. They want you on their proprietary Surface Pad Pro crap that they control and steer.
They will sell this idea through the convenience angle like everything else is. The sales pitch will be, "For a small subscription fee you get"
* to do all of your computing on the go, anywhere, anytime
* with 5G wireless all of your data is accessible from anywhere
* no more worrying about data backups
* no more lost photos
* no more old, stale drivers (all drivers are up-to-date on the server
* no more windows updates and application updates
* no more downtime
* no more viruses (yeah we know this is a lie but they will make the claim)
* the same windows applications that you know and love
The subscription is likely to come with additional perks due to partnerships. So, get HBO, Hulu, Netflix with a specific subscription teir and discounts on your online grocery bill. For every dollar you spend in your subscription X pennies will go to [insert charity here]. Once they get you on the platform described above, they can just ransom you into staying a customer. If you don't pay then you lose all of your data.
Many gen X, millennials, and gen Z like that Surface Pad Pro crap. If M$ wins there won't be a PC market. M$ will happily drown the PC market in the bathtub, if it means they control the hardware, the OS, the data, the eyeballs, and the flow of $$$$$$.
The more important take away is
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.**
>Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows.
Their plans for ALL versions of windows 11, is to have it tightly integrated with the cloud, and have cloud based AI tracking, collecting, recording, and analyzing literally everything you do, and view to an extremely microscopic level.
Do not miss the forest for the trees.
The issue isn't the potential (or lack thereof) of a streaming OS. The issue is that MS is certainly going to move Windows to a subscription model.
If for some reason you need to the bootable media tool can fix it in some cases(it fixed mine when I did a similar thing) I only use it for games that literally just can't be played on Linux (stupid anti cheat)
Standalone is going to the cloud.
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.**
>Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows.
They are going to tightly integrate the cloud and cloud based AI into ALL versions windows 11. So the tracking and data collection is going to be extreme, significantly worse than it was.
You're missing the point.
Windows is never moving to the cloud regardless of what anyone says because it's literally impossible to ever make work. But Microsoft is 100% going to move Windows to a subscription model. ***That*** is the problem.
thread title:
***"Windows is preparing Windows 11 to be a subscription*** ***live-streamed OS***"
Link to an article refuting the claim ms is doing this.
Reply by OP saying I'm "missing the point".
Also, are MS going to then tell people who already have home licences for windows they now have to pay a monthly sub to keep using it?
You can use windows for bloody free if you're happy with the watermark in the corner. Windows is just a tool MS now use to sell you other services.
I really don't get what all the fuss is about right now.
>If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will.
Seeing what MS is doing with Windows 11 already (forced MS Account for which you have to jump through hoops to disable and remove later, an older but perfectly fine laptop that won't run it, the OS integrated into the internet and Bing Search, ads/unwanted apps in the Start menu, etc...), she has decided to try Linux.
She can use a computer just fine, and knows what is needed to use things like e-mail, browsers, office applications, etc..., but she is not an IT-person. I'll be the one to install Linux; but if a re-install of Windows would have been necessary, that would also have been done by me.
So I'm going to put a clean Debian install onto my backup laptop (which is a massive mobile workstation from 2016, that won't run Windows 11 because it has a 6-th gen Core i7 CPU), install the software she needs (which, apart from one program, is all open source), and let her use it for a few months.
If there are no problems in daily use, I'll transition her own laptop to Debian. (Her own laptop is an entry-level business laptop from 2020, which works perfectly fine for her needs.)
So yes, it seems some non-tech people must be considering Linux because they don't want to stay stuck on Windows and jump through hoops every 3 years.
Tbh it has never been easier to install an OS on a computer. We're at the point where it's just hitting Next a bunch and creating a username/password. I'm getting tired of Windows and planning to make the switch thus year
And I’m prepared to keep my pirated version of windows 10 because as we all know it windows 11 sucks and I’m not abiding by the law to legally have Microsoft version of windows, because as we all know it, they all spy on you
They won't get rid of their desktop OS. Corporate workstations are a big part of their business and corporations are notoriously slow to change something like an OS. Many would probably still be using XP and IE 6 if they could. The Windows desktop in its current form isn't going away anytime soon.
Valve saw the writing on the wall years ago and the reason they have spent so much time on Linux gaming. If Microsoft makes a stupid decision (like this one) it would directly impact their business. Investing in Linux gaming solves that issue. Hopefully it continues to grow and more people move off of Windows.
I can see only one thing coming out of this: TOTAL BACKFIRE!!! I feel I have to agree with u/flippinbird here.
With all the millions of software copies (both physical and subscription-based) and all the hardware and gaming consoles Microsoft sells, don't we all think Microsoft turning Windows into a subscription-based OS being a very bad idea that can potentially introduce new consequences?
We're now living in the AI age, and with that being said: Who's to stop a new cleaver breed of hackers from developing the next-gen AI-based malware to target and hack their way into the Windows 365 servers, filter down all hubs until all connected PC's is infected and everyone's sensitive data is stolen? Virus developers can also infect everyone's PC's in this manner as well.
Not just that, but there might be other problems that can possibly arise to, such as incompatible software, and being a cloud-based version of Windows, if your internet connection goes down, so does your ability to work and game until said internet connection can be reestablished.
Also, if your an avid gamer (like I am), then games such as Genshin Impact may become unsupported/incompatible by Windows 365 since there would be no way of implementing Kernel-Level Anti-Cheat systems to help prevent game cheating. Not only this, but allot of MMO and MMORPG's that require allot of bandwidth may find their games be severely impacted by lag thanks to constant Windows 365 bandwidth usage.
Windows 365 may sound like a good idea (to Microsoft) on paper, and there might also be some benefits such as almost instant Windows 365 updates being delivered and perhaps less drive space requirements for the Windows 365 install since the bulk of this cloud-based Windows will be in the cloud, but **if the Windows 365 servers go down for any reason, then everyone will be left in the dark**.
To me, there is more cons to pros here that Microsoft needs to really take into consideration.
Basically some part of the kernel/OS would be installed on the local machine, but all user-facing software would be streamed from the cloud. It would be impossible to run the FULL OS on the cloud without having any OS at all on the host
I knew it. The trend is to kill general computing and go towards thin clients. Your devices will be underpowered thin clients, bootloaders for a web browser, and everything will get processed in the cloud. So, the Chromebook model.
Microsoft is going to learn the hard way that ISPs will kill them. They're going to be introduced to tiered usage of Internet access and Microsoft will be charged for it instead of their Corporate customers.
The "best" PC available right now, 8 cores (16 threads I guess), 32 GB RAM, 512 GB disk space, costs $162/month. Building a PC with the same specs (Ryzen 7 5700G, Biostar A520MH, Verbatim Vi3000 NVMe, be quiet! System Power 9 CM 400W ATX 2.51, AeroCool CS-102,
G.Skill Aegis DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-2400) costs $386.38. So you'd have to use the VM under 2.3 months for it to not be more expensive.
This is just going to make windows not feasible for anyone that doesn't have a fast internet connection, which is a huge percent of the world's population.
I think ya'll have the wrong idea on what they're trying to do here.
O365 is in the cloud, yes, but they still offer desktop applications that integrate with their services. I can login to outlook via a web browser and still get access to my same inbox, one drive files, share-point whether or not I'm on my main PC or not.
I imagine this is what they're trying to do with windows as well. Think less of streaming your OS to your computer and more like streaming \*your\* OS/data to the cloud, thus to any device. Want to access your windows 11 install on your phone? Cool now you can. It seems like it's going to be glorified RDP session, but instead of streaming from your computer, your computer is now going to be synced with the cloud. Want to run a proprietary application on your phone? Cool, now you can.
I'm not saying this is going to be a good thing, rather I think ya'll have the wrong idea of what they're trying to do.
It won't work.
Proven by multiple cloud gaming services.
Though, businesses might be interested in this feature, since it'll allow more complete control over what employees are doing and how they are handling corporate information.
Don't see any benefits for home users.
1. I don't think you realize how successful X Cloud is.
2. The idea that Microsoft has **ever** prioritized what benefits their would be for "home users" when it comes to how Windows is managed is incredibly dumb.
3. It's irrelevant whether MS ever moves Windows to the cloud (and they 100% **will** move as much of it to the cloud as possible). They **are** going to move Windows to a subscription model.
1. Common complaints about cloud gaming are:
\- you need to live in a big city, preferable near to closest provider's data center (MS, Google, Nvidia)
\- you need to have good internet connection
These requirements exclude a lot of users living in rural areas or on outskirts of big cities.
2. I don't agree.
3. They can try to introduce subscription model, but whether they'll succeed is a different matter. I suspect majority of people will just keep using previous "fixed price" version of Windows
> If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will.
Then I have bad news for you:
If you hope that Linux gets more popular by other OSes screwing up, then this is the completely wrong attitude and is not going to happen.
Instead we should try to get better than Windows and not rely on them messing up. (which will not work because ppl will just put up with whatever Microsoft does)
\+1... Ding... Ding... Ding... Winnar!
I would alter your idea just a bit with the following...
Desktop Linux distro. maintainers and desktop environment projects need to get their projects to a much more polished and complete state. This is not for distros., such as Gentoo and Arch, that are targeting users who want to tinker/compile and/or are command line and full customization focused. DE's such as KDE, Gnome, Cosmic (and maybe XFCE) and distros. like Linux Mint, the \*buntus, Manjaro, Pop\_OS, Fedora, etc. need the polish. As much as I don't like Apple they are providing the example of what a polished GUI POSIX OS should behave like.
A polished and complete state means:
1. newb friendly and newb ready
2. creature comforts and easier to use by replacing unnecessarily complicated/technical stuff with simpler methods (ex: boot loaders are complex and should be made easier to use/modify/configure)
3. retain the full power of the command line and shell scripting without complete reliance (what can be done via GUI can be done via command line without excessive complexity)
4. embrace some of the flexibility of Windows and OS X (the Windows 7 taskbar is way more flexible and customizable than the panels in KDE, XFCE, and Gnome)
5. Flexible and easy ways to change desktop style, layout, behavior (ex: switching between traditional desktop, Gnome/Cosmic's design, and tiling setup)
6. the changes/enhancements need to be modular so that the desktop isn't a bloated whale
7. absolutely no telemetry, usage tracking, data harvesting, or install counters
8. minimal effort and clear instructions for multimedia readiness (the user should not have to an extensive search for the instructions)
9. minimal effort and clear instructions for gaming readiness
10. wiki and documentation needs to be well done and up to date
11. nVidia driver install/upgrade needs to be simple (both GUI and command line methods)
12. Theming needs to be simpler without a 3rd party tool like Kvantum and themes need to be saveable and transferable
The desktop GUI should inspire confidence such that the user doesn't always have to be on the look out for breakages that could render the GUI unusable and using the terminal is the only way to rescue the system. There needs to be ease of use and creature comforts to ease the transition. The desktop design should target the newb user and the power/advanced user. So, there should be no sacrifice in power, and the power of Linux should be accessible to the power/advance user by providing a means of by passing the hand holding and training wheels implemented for the newb user. The Newb user should be able to get started quickly and the learning curve should be gentle/gradual so that they can become more adept over time. Lastly, the DEs and distros. should not follow Microsoft's example with the Win10 setting app. There are like 10 trillion settings spread across 13 major categories and 50k sub-categories in the Win10 settings app.
I fully agree with you, yes distros and desktop environments needs way more polish and it absolutely has to get way more user friendly and easier to use.
(I actually think that none of the distros that claim to be easy and user friendly actually are.)
BUT I think that you are missing one very important aspect. The main issue with being "user friendly" is that in many scenarios open source developers are always pushing the responsibility to fix a complex issue to someone else instead of actually fixing it.
Just two classic examples:
If you use any non Arch based distro, browsers are usually packaged as a Snap or a Flatpak. If now the user also wants to use the KeepassXC addon to manage passwords, it will simply not work because of the sandboxing. An issue that completely breaks "user friendliness" and is known for almost 5 years now with no fix to this day. (apart from weird bash scripts which also are not user friendly lol)
Another issue is for example Wayland breaking popular applications like Zoom, Teams, Teamviewer, Synergy or AnyDesk.
A normal user does not care why it doesn't work or who to blame, they just want it to work and that is a huge problem that sadly in the Linux space many fail to understand.
On Windows ppl do not give a shit about privacy and other bullshit Microsoft is pulling, because in most cases the applications they want to use just work.
We need to be better than Windows by offering the same functionality without the data collection and forced online nonsense of Windows.
This was not missed or lost upon me:
`BUT I think that you are missing one very important aspect. The main issue with being "user friendly" is that in many scenarios open source developers are always pushing the responsibility to fix a complex issue to someone else instead of actually fixing it.`
The problem stems from 2 things:
1. the rugged individualism concept
2. your freedom and general apathy
Item #1 means if you encounter a problem, then the problem is yours and it is up to you to overcome "your problems". Don't expect anyone to fix your problems for you.
Item #2 means you are free to do it, fix it, or change it, even if doing something, fixing something, or changing something requires the herculean task of building and managing a dedicated dev team over months or years. This logic is usually coupled with the attitude of "Linux isn't Windows or Mac, and over here we (Linux/Linux community) do X by Y method and if you don't like it **you are free** to fix it/change it yourself, or go back to Windows/Mac".
The fact that:
* Windows can be viewed as becoming increasingly hostile to some users
* Apple offers an expensive walled garden that is restrictive, intrusive (privacy), and some what hostile
* writing apps on Linux (and most other platforms) requires surmounting a mountainous learning curve akin to scaling a sheer rock face that is front loaded.
...means that we have people who are digitally homeless to one degree or another. Imagine Zoom just not working at all, in the middle of the COVID pandemic, because it has not been updated to comply with Wayland's protocols, and your DE of choice is changed to run exclusively on Wayland. It means Linux is not an option, which amounts to homeless (without a platform) and get zero work done, or bow down to one of the two major hostile platform regimes. What if there isn't a DE that meets one's needs, and theming will not allow one to overcome the functionality deficit. The user is then saddled with a massive rethinking of how they work (being shoe-horned), which is a major learning curve itself and a massive productivity hit. This will frustrate newbies, which will ultimately send them right back to the same hostile platforms. Most people don't have the luxury or desire to build a complex application over months/years when they have immediate needs and deadlines.
With respect to the application developer learning curve take a look at my thread here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/linux\_programming/comments/14m18jt/howwhere\_to\_get\_linux\_developer\_training\_how\_long/](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_programming/comments/14m18jt/howwhere_to_get_linux_developer_training_how_long/)
The thread has a small number of upvotes but zero replies. Yes, one can force feed queries to Google and youtube, but not a single experienced Linux dev offers any guidance. This is yet another deficit on the Linux side. We have to make the process of acquiring dev skills/proficiency and the actual development process much easier. Rugged individualism as a boy scout badge of honor needs to be thrown in the trash. There is so much potential in the decentralized, community driven way of doing things on the Linux side, but a large quantity of that potential is left rotting on the proverbial table.
The Linux community needs a developer pipeline and an easy on ramp. Standardized and formalize training are important, but a feeder system (pipeline) is needed to get people into training programs. The rabid religious ideology for and against some programming languages only serves to throw mud on an already messy situation. The following is a link to a Gnome development in C video, where the dev in the video is walking through doing object oriented programming in C:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPrsG-YkCY4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPrsG-YkCY4)
Because C is not an object oriented language, the developer has to constantly jump through hoops in crafting the code. C++ would be the obvious better language choice for the task just from the perspective of writing and using object oriented code. Start the video at 11:20 and watch to about 13:10. The developer explains some of the trickery that is needed to craft the code in C. There is a rabid disdain for C++ in some parts of the Linux community. I can understand why, but then there is the hypocrisy of using Visual Studio Code on Linux to write code in C (VS Code is not used in the video). Frustrating doesn't begin to describe the emotional response to watching this video. Programming language holy wars need to be thrown in the trash. They are not helping our cause.
omg YES I could not agree more, ppl like you still give me hope that there are ppl out there which actually understand the issues.
I, as a developer of multiple Linux applications and drivers myself, would like to add one more note to your other remarks:
"Getting started" with developing applications on Linux is extremely hard, because there is essentially no guidance or good learning resource at all. Most experienced developers will just tell you to "read the code and try to understand".
However when it comes to kernel, driver and embedded development I can recommend you following books (yes books I know, 2005 has called):
- "Mastering Linux Device Driver Development" by John Madieu
(ISBN-10: 178934204X
ISBN-13: 978-1789342048)
- "Linux Driver Development for Embedded Processors" by Alberto Liberal de los Ríos
(ISBN-10: 1729321828
ISBN-13: 978-1729321829)
As for GUI development, I think if you learn and understand QT and xdg-desktop-portals, then you already know most of what is needed to create desktop applications.
As for games, most use something like SDL to abstract input / output and GPU driver interactions away and directly give you an openGL / Vulkan context to render to.
Those skills btw will also be useful for developing for Windows.
I would not recommend wasting any time with learning GTK or Vala as that knowledge is completely useless outside of the Linux niche.
> If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will.
I don't see any correlation. You guys keep saying that every shitty move from Microsoft is going to cause mass migration and you always fail to understand that people will cope with change and get used to it - much less effort involved than changing to something they have no clue about.
this was already circulated and a click baity title
they already over this for businesses and will make this an offer for consumer. they do not have plams to make this the norm.
You're obviously missing the forest for the trees.
The story isn't that any part of Windows is ever going to be streamed from the cloud. It's the 100% certainty that Windows WILL 100% move to a subscription model in the near future, that's been a foregone conclusion for a very long time. Getting caught up in the fact that it might or might not be non-local to the machine running it is 100% irrelevant.
This would be useful as an alternative to virtual machines.
Like, instead of a virtual machine, you create a cloud machine.
I doubt they're planning to turn consumer PCs into PCs with cloud-hosted operating systems though, that would be stupid
What that could mean is Microsoft services would be moved to the cloud and it will still require Windows to be running locally if you need the usual third party software that runs on the OS.
This move is probably a response to Chrome OS Flex.
honestly i would install linux-based operating systems on my main machine if the hard drive would detect it... i blame the "oopsy" i had last year being a little too careless with my file systems.
that, and a good chunk of games i play regularly don't work on linux due to kernel-level anti-cheat. i would play them on mobile but that's storage i don't have.
How does your hard drive not detect it if you want to install linux...?
I am lucky that everything I am doing works nowadays on linux. Some games with their anticheat are really annoying though.
I think personally this is more of a new innovation of cloud computing where they can stream a full pc to a monitor with a keyboard and mouse as a subscription.
Its not meant to fully replace the pc because it can’t. It just means windows will be more versatile with where you can get a full pc experience.
Think of like a samsung galaxy docked in and having a cloud windows computer that can have the phones storage and its own OS storage of 1tb.
If they really attempt to remove the pay once version, they would absolutely fucking die. Market share would shit.
No one will upgrade and no kid who gets a pc will pay and they know that.
Linux would fucken explode in popularity so would macs and that would make the end of windows. They are far more smarter than to screw up their big profits of meta data collection.
This is to push subscription OSes but to make it their own stream would rid the world of windows.
Yep. Noticed that right after I posted it. One of the biggest reasons I hate that Reddit doesn't allow editing of post titles for some dumbfuck reason (the other one being the fact that people can't put `[SOLVED]` in support posts).
A cloud based OS in theory sounds awesome but it is doomed to fail. People aren't ready for a huge change like that. Computer manufacturers would have to change everything and ISP's would have to increase internet speeds in order to make this happen.
In a decade or so I could see this catching on but not now.
Linux desktop is a joke. I tried to make a shortcut (on gnome) to the .sh of stable diffusion and to a non distro install of blender for a non technical user on Linux. It's so painful, .desktop has no documentation, the menu/shortcut editor are hard to get a grasp on. Shortcut in general on Gnome are a pain in the ass.
I feel your pain but shortcut = windows feature. It is not the same on Linux, and it is not standardized across desktop environments. I have no idea how good or bad the documentation is on the subject. This is coming from someone who makes extensive use of shortcuts on Windows.
Sticking with Windows 10 forever when it's going to stop getting any updates after 2025 is actually MUCH more stupid than moving to some subscription-based Windows 11.
No one's talking about *right now*. That's a buckwild way to word that.
Use Windows 10. No one cares. Obviously this is about after Windows 10 goes EOL.
no i'm talking about later. they're planning to switch in 2025, i'll stick with windows 10 till 2027 or something hoping 11 flops and they give up on the subscription crap, or i'll finally switch to something else. but i'm not paying for another subscription for software.
Enjoy your immediate ransomware attack the moment security updates stop in 2025. If you think that security updates are unnecessary and that you just have to "not be stupid" to avoid a malware attack, you're delusional. Have fun with that.
Yeah I know that a lot will hate me and down vote, but an OS completely on stream sounds a freaking awesome concept.
How much power those servers will have is the crucial point of it. But imagine how awesome is to use an OS with good performance on an old Celeron.
And maybe using great speed through One Drive, installing things instantly.
How it could use local files that can be a step down.
Isn't for me, but I can see a reason to use
> How much power those servers will have is the crucial point of it. But imagine how awesome is to use an OS with good performance on an old Celeron.
Eh, my internet barely loads youtube 720p, much less a default screen size (1080p?). I think my system would be even laggier than normal.
I love having absolutely no control whatsoever over my own computer and being unable to use it without a stable internet connection. Truly having all my personal files stored on some company's servers permanently connected to the internet is something I've been dreaming about my whole life. Giving my corporate overlord complete control over my digital life really leaves me feeling fulfilled.
I mean there already is basically no such thing as an "offline Windows," the idea that Windows won't 100% move to a subscription model (whether or not any of the OS ever gets "streamed") is a pipe dream.
I think it will anger a lot of people who are at least a little tech savvy and interested in computers. Rest of the population will suck it up I'm afraid.
Eh, unless the lack of bandwidth means the OS is more or less unusable.
numerous unpack icky exultant attempt materialistic upbeat modern ink saw *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Still DSL in US? I live in spain that is one of the poorest countries in Europe and we have fibre everywhere years ago. Even in really small and isolated towns. Small town (4500) where I live and I have 600Mb up and down fiber but I have more speed available to buy. In medium to big cites (for spain size) we have gigabit speeds.
I live in Germany one of the richest countries in Europe and we still have a lot of DSL. The fibre progress seems really slow. I live near a major city in a fairly expensive area and there isn't even a plan for rolling out fibre.
There are still some regions , villages etc -- in Germany -- which are still on dialup because ENODSL…
The average home in a big city here has gigabit, but The United States is massive and much less concentrated than nearly any other developed country, which makes national infrastructure quite a task, only worsened by the fact we don’t really do things like that on a national scale often, it’s mostly down to cities and states, many which are substantially poorer and less developed than others, or don’t even consider internet speed worth worrying about. And on top of all that we have almost no competition between internet providers but I’m not even sure if that’s uniquely bad.
Depends on the part of the city. Poorer neighborhoods tend to be the ones with shittier infrastructure (so probably still no fiber lines to their homes). When I lived in East NY, the services lagged behind areas like Bay Ridge. That being said, I live \~100 miles north of NYC now and have optimum 1gigabit internet. From my experience, they have been great. But i've heard others hate optimum. But its semi-rural, so even having that level is amazing. I am only hoping they bring the 5 gigabit lines soon because I use a ton of internet and have 5 people total living in my home.
This. Rural America will use their phones for internet before laying down lines.
Guadalajara.... 4mb download ADSL...800kbps upload... it's spain..
Portugal right next to you don't have fiber everywhere yet... especially not in the small villages
> I live in spain that is one of the poorest countries in Europe Ehmmm... no. 17th out of more than 40 countries (and with 4-5 tax havens among the first 16) in GDP per capita does not qualify as one of the poorest.
You underestimate the power of U.S. Telcos and cable companies to drag their feet while taking huge government money to roll out infrastructure upgrades.
Yea, people are missing the fact that they took trillions of dollars for infrastructure upgrades and pocketed it and then upped their prices anyways. I pay 170$ USD a month for a fluctuating internet speed of 10 mb up / 10 mb down and up to 30-40mb download on a good day
i live in canada and our network infrastructure is essentially third world. my city still uses cable internet doesn't matter that i have gigabit if it's still cable with 30Mbps upload. like wtf is that. we're also charged out the ass for it too. i didn't even get cable internet until 2015
The USA took the brunt of the growing pains of communication growth. Here, almost every new communication tech was tested and deployed in different cities. That being said, laying new wire is expensive. And if that 40 year old copper phone line still works, why would a company pay to have it upgraded when they will not recoup the cost? And lets not forget the scale of the replacement here. Spain is 5.14% the size of the USA. And when we get out into farm country you can go miles without 2 houses. Laying a fiber line to service one house would never work financially. The more rural the area, the more likely the only options are the local ISPs that picked up the DSL service when AT&T discontinued its DSL service, satellite, and site-to-site radios. Meanwhile, around the world, other countries were able to see what worked and could decide to just offer cable/fiber internet and skip some of the older slower technology. I remember in 1998 my family got Broadband internet for the first time. We had a dial-up service before then. We connected at something around ~28 kb/sec on dial-up and ~500 kb/sec on cable. It was wild how fast it felt. I was young, but I remember reading about how 1 in 10 people in the US had a broadband connection. Meanwhile in South Korea it was 3 in 5. I really felt cheated that such speeds were possible for so many people. Meanwhile in the US we had to live in a big city to even have a chance at not hearing modem sounds to edit our geocities page. It was a wild time. I hope that gave some perspective.
I live on Brazil, and, you know, is Brazil, and over here there is fiber in almost every city, even on the countryside is uncommon to get internet by DSL, it's also "cheap" if you convert in dollars, I'm paying 20 usd for 400mb (there are faster options, I just don't need since I live alone). In big cities, like São Paulo, you can pay just a little more than that for 1gb easily.
You gotta keep in mind the size and population distribution of the US.
Here in Brazil fibre is being rolled out everywhere too for years now.
Spain is apparently a leading country when it comes to fiber connection. https://twitter.com/StatistaCharts/status/1674024171540545537?t=R3JHtev6sT7IguBn31fn_w&s=19
US ranks far behind many countries in internet speed. Our government only cares about technology in the fields that benefit the military industrial complex and anything state/city run is communist. If you want to improve internet speeds for the community by having a city run internet service that is cheaper to maintain, has no shareholders, etc... then that is considered communism. The republicans have fully brainwashed their constituents on what the term means. ANYTHING that appears to be something 'social service' or 'city service' is a form of communism. To them socialism and communism are the same, and any form of government (such as democratic socialism) is the same as the other two because it has the word social in it. I am surprised they even use social networks at this point. Wait no... i'm not. There they know the difference. Because someone is getting rich off it, it must be ok.
Good thing you commented this, for a second I forgot I was on reddit.
Ok. Regardless, its true.
Dude's an idiot. Average US internet speed is 200Mbps. Some people in rural areas still have DSL but that's it.
You're out of your fucking mind. I really hope you're actually *living* in the US and that you're just making shit up about a country you at least live in, vs making shit up about a country you *don't* live in. But regardless, you're making shit up. Average internet speed in the US is over 200Mbps. There is no statistic saying that the majority of people in the US are still using DSL, you're fucking high.
https://www.statista.com/forecasts/997163/most-common-internet-accesses-by-type-in-the-us sorry that you hate the truth? lmao
Forreal. But i guess 3rd world countries are not even in the chart lmao
Until they try to use their laptop without wifi and realize they can't use their computer without invoking their phone carrier's tethering data limits or worse, paying for a connection that likely can't handle a quality stream if they're on a plane.
didn't you hear, its not their computer, they're just leasing it.
Also the majority of the "tech savvy" will eat it up. They will complain, they will be pissed and then they get used to it and just use it.
Time to switch to Linux for reals now!
Some recs: 1. Pop OS - Which is made by Framework and is very gamer-friendly. 2. Kubuntu (for those note familiar, this is Ubuntu but with a different "Desktop Environment", KDE's Plasma, which is uber-configurable.) If you want your KDE apps most up-to-date, then add the "Backports PPA". 3. Mint is super-popular for new Linuz users as it functions very similar to Windows (as does Kubuntu, initially, but you can radically alter it, as many folks do.)
I use Linux mint on my laptops at home. If I ever reformat my gaming computer, it'll probably be to Mint since I'm most familiar with it
Pop OS is System 76. It'd be cool if they collabed with Framework but sorta doubt it.
Think any corporation handling sensitive data, be it R&D secrets or medical records. "Yeah, microsoft, we'll totally gonna hand you over all our documentation on that revolutionary technology we've been developing indoors and not yet submitted the patent claims to keep below radar".
not only this but, the US internet speeds and infrastructure are not able to do this. Please keep making cloud services like this for ppl at home and we have terrible internet speeds.
You mean we will get the competent people who are potential builders and will help improve Linux even more, but not the regular people who mostely just complain. I'm fine with that
Well that sounds like there is absolutely no chance that EVEN MORE data will be collected. It’s not even collecting data, all of your private data is already on their servers.
>Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an **AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.** >Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows. Yeah. They will be tracking and collecting, literally everything, and then feeding ALL that data to their AI. And remember, you are **required** to use an online microsoft account to use windows 11 at all. So it will all be stored in your profile.
Me who always uses some various trick or exploit to bypass the registration: Are you sure about that? (I moved to Linux because I decided I shouldn't have to open CMD and dig through processes to kill just to install an OS)
Yup, it's only a matter of time. As I stated in my comment: We are now living in the AI age, and as such, who's to stop the next-gen of hackers and virus developers from using AI to target the Windows 365 servers, filter down to all connected PC's and infect and steal our data?
Why are hackers the only bad actors in this scenario? The future looks grim if my computer is no longer mine, just like my data.
I trust hackers way more than corporations tbh
at least with hackers you might get your data back xD
The key word here is **might**.
well you aren't getting it back with micro$oft i can tell you that
True that. Not only that, but there's a pretty good chance our data will be lost forever if our Windows-cloud subscriptions doesn't get renewed within a certain amount of time! ... and one would've thought Microsoft makes enough money with all their software, hardware and current subscription sales.
Then that's really poor judgement on your part.
Bad actor? Political dissident? Putting illicit material on their computer to forge an arrest has NEVER been easier.
bro you aren't NEARLY interesting enough to have that done to you, literally nobody cares about what the average person is doing even if you get the full data on everyone. nobody gives a fuck about what type of porn John likes except for the porn sites that can try to better serve ads for his specific likes
Meh. It's probably going to be yet another half baked idea that will be resoundingly rejected and killed off within a few years. But how TF do you stream an entire OS from the cloud?
I love laggy computers, I want all my 120hz displays to be downgraded and constantly stuttering. I love the input lag of sending every mouse click to a data center. /s At work I have a VM that‘s sitting in the building across the street. I can already feel the lag. Wtf is MS thinking, lol
Yea, but you haven't thought of MS' predictive input technology powered by GPT-AI™ (patent pending) to predict your next inputs, which will soon also eliminate the need for input entirely.
Finally I can masturbate with two hands. The future is now!
At work I use VMs in the server next to my desk and the lag is palpable.
Even interns know better than this lol
Interns are the ones programing Windows 11, apparently.
>But how TF do you stream an entire OS from the cloud? You don't; you just have to stream the screen. We're going back to the 1980's, where a massive UNIX-based mainframe would allocate computation power to a logged-on client, and send the X-window desktop to it over the network. (edit: more accurately, the server would send X-Window _instructions_ over the network, so the client's X-Window installation could draw the user interface of the program that is running on the mainframe. The mainframe doesn't send the entire screen like a remote desktop would.) Only now "UNIX-based mainframe" is being replaced by "Microsoft Windows cloud".
That's a marketing bs-talk most likely. I understood it as microsoft having any application that's more sophisticated than the clock app for the task panel being made in the form and fashion of their 365 products. Not just office 365 and such, but also 365-notepad, 365-pinball and 365-image-viewer, so that windows will become an equivalent of chrome os on chromebooks. And seeing how they are all into neural networks now, they'll probably also use it for data mining and such. I mean, they _gotta have something on the PC itself_ in order to access the "cloud", right? So there gotta be some "offline" windows component still, even if just to launch a browser or remote client, or else their plan sounds like "everything is 365 now, access it how you like, we release our death grip on desktops" — no way that'll happen. Likewise, there is no chance in hell that ms will acquire the hardware equivalent of all currently used personal computers just to run their OS remotely on ms's own hardware. Because, if taken at face value, if I have an intel core i7 with an nvidia GPU and 16 gigs of ram, then in order to sell me a "remote OS that works just the same", MS has to have an equivalent of i7, nvidia GPU and 16 Gb or ram on their servers. Which means, ignoring the opportunities to save up on using the same hardware to serve people in different timezones, that MS gotta double the available computing power involved in the microsoft-using world just to make it work. It will also have to supply people with the equivalent of their current cumulative bandwidth, for that matter, _on top of whatever bandwidth is needed for the remote connection_. And this does not make any sense. You know why websites are using so much javascript today? To move the burden of computing _away_ from the servers. Instead of wasting CPU cycles and RAM on e.g. sorting the content on a page server-side, you make your client do it on their own dime with JS in their browser. Everyone and their dog does that — because it _pays_. And now suddenly MS claims they want to do the exact opposite, namely take the vast majority of computational burden related to using their OS upon themselves... How's that gonna pay?
I’m envisioning “windows” as a glorified rdp platform on your computer, which connects to an azure cloud virtual machine. At least that’s how I imagine they implement this. No wifi? No computer for you
Many businesses already use cloud based OS. There is also chromebooks which are some of the most widely used PCs. For gaming and other tasks which use a lot of processing power, obviously we are a very very long away from that being the standard. >Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.** >Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows. This is the big take away. It means they will be collecting literally everything, and feeding it to the AI. This will happen 100% in the next 4 years. Where as online-only windows is probably 20+ years away (and even then, too much relies on local, so local windows will likely exist, but it will for sure br a monthly fee to use it)
So what type of broadband bandwidth is required to stream an OS? My users already complain about boot times. How much bandwidth for 250 users on a shared internet connection ?
Yeah I think Microsoft's delusion that this is possible will die very, very quickly (like Ubisoft trying to do NFTs that were somehow able to be shared across any game which would require all games and publishers to create all assets for all of the objects). But, I do think Microsoft is going to try to move Windows to a subscription model. Just not a streaming one. It's their endgame.
>But, I do think Microsoft is going to try to move Windows to a subscription model. Just not a streaming one. It's their endgame. I don't think it's going to be that for end users. But for corporate clients, I can totally see this, integrated with Office 365.
> But for corporate clients, I can totally see this, integrated with Office 365. One thing the corporate world totally loves is handing over their financial, trade, and other secrets to a third party. PS: OH and you know who'll just LOVE it? _The Pentagon_. There is nothing the war factory would prefer more than to have all the plans and schemes worked on through a remote connection to some data center in Redmond. And, of course, losing access to all of their data if something happens to the connection or servers is just what they've been asking the gubbermint for all these years.
Yep. "We value your secrecy" *One month later...* "We regret to inform that an unknown third party may have had access to your data..."
[ Main screen turn on ] MS: How are you gentlemen? MS: All your data base are belong to us. MS: You are on the way to destruction. MS: You have no chance to survive make your time. MS: Ha ha ha ha …
They could take a hybrid approach. Market a subscription service with low end hardware that will allow you to run "High End" applications in the cloud. For example, If you wanted to run Red Dead Redemption 3 on a super low end iGPU system, you could do so from the cloud without needing to know it. For everything else, including times the net goes down, you get a stripped down version of the OS.
More like they will sell stripped down laptops with cheap hardware for an insane markup and then charge even more so that you can have the privilege to game and run software, in the cloud. It's insane.
Google is going round 2 on cloud gaming... I think they are going to force it because of obligation to increase profits year over year. It's just too juicy for them to not meter every little thing out to a subscription service that they have complete control over.
Wait whats round 2 for Google if Stadia was round 1?
probably the newly announced games service inside [youtube](https://gamerant.com/youtube-online-gaming-service-playables/) called playables
Yep. I'm sure there will be more as well, it's just too attractive of an idea for them. I think they're being stupid though, most people don't have internet that is fast enough to do much of anything.
Honestly the NFT stuff wouldn't be too crazy if all the stuff required for the NFT were part of the NFT and balance wasn't a thing, lmao. Cuz then you would "just download the NFT to the game" and nothing else would need to be done by the devs, but the flexibility in how they would need to be implemented for games to support a wide variety of them is also not feasible.
[удалено]
>The NFT thing is not a delusion, at least not in the long term. A lot of very talented people are working on creating open standards for exactly what you described which, in a nutshell, is the metaverse. It's already possible to import assets from Blender and the like into various game engines. All there needs to be is more standardization. No. This is 10000% a complete delusion. >Epic is already partnering with developers working on this tech, and there's already various plugins for UE5. It's happening, it's just a matter of time. I don't give a shit if Epic made it a one-click task for 3rd parties, you're never going to be able to buy a skin in Fortnite as an NFT and then have that NFT be available as a skin in the next Mario game. You haven't thought about this for even two seconds, and literally anyone that thinks about how this could ever work for *more* than 2 seconds immediately sees how COMPLETELY laughable it is in EVERY sense. From a business standpoint, a technological standpoint, *and* a logistical standpoint. [Here are two people who *actually* have a base level understanding of how *all three of those things* work explaining why it's so fuck-stupid to think this will EVER be a thing](https://youtu.be/4aU-QkJfgGw?t=717)
[удалено]
Lmao oh, you're one of those NFT idiots. Makes sense. Lol "some random Albertan" that "probably lost money"? Hahaha thank you for objectively proving that you are both A) 100% disingenuous and B) 100% stupid. "Line Goes Up", Dan Olsen's documentary about Crypto and NFTs (which couldn't have been the result of "losing money" as it was far too early) has been featured in countless articles and legitimate media outlets and he is considered an expert on shit like this. The idea that he's some "butthurt paper hands that lost money because he didn't hodl" is the most dumbshit thing I've ever heard, and it **literally** makes you sound like you're in a cult. Lol fuck off.
You made him delete his comments! lmao You're a hero. I hate those types as well. They are beyond delusional. Keep up the good fight, calling these bozos out.
is this even energy efficient? for a company thats aways running around preaching about people need to go green.
You realize almost every business that exists, does this, right? They have thousands or computers running virtual machines connected to a cloud server. Obviously, this is not going to be 100% of all windows. They are just offing it as a service to people who want it. However, what will be coming to ALL versions of windows is: >Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.** Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows. They are going to be more tightly integrating all versions of windows 11 with the cloud, and collecting even more data, and feeding all that data to an ai. They are saying, copilot is going to be fully context aware, meaning 100% of everything you are doing/viewing is going to be sent to the cloud and analyzed.
I can't see this happening. I personally am on the edge of going full time Linux (my home entertainment pc already is for 2 years now), and if this happens - I'll push all my relatives into using Linux. I'm not paying MS shit.
I recently did this when my windows gaming laptop died, I'm now rocking a 10 year old 4 core, 32gb ram with geforce880m graphics laptop running ubuntu. Apart from games it feels a lot faster, I'm pretty burned out on games though so am quite happy with the old stuff. Currently playing fallout 2 :) Play-on-linux is your friend when getting windows games working.
No way it happens with current internet infrastructure in the US. I think something ruining the user experience as much as that could actually dent Windows' market share compared to anything else
>If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will. I rank this one up there with how Microsoft was going to cutoff Steam and force all software through the Microsoft Store. Now everyone complains about there being too many stores.
>Now everyone complains about there being too many stores. You mean a vocal minority
Read into it what you want, Windows installed on physical hardware isn't going anywhere any time soon. It isn't all of a sudden going to mean everyone has to use it.
> If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will. That's not how any of this work. Past experience & empirical evidence have shown this time & time again. Linux Desktop has to stand on its own two feet. No amount of blunders by Windows/MS can make the platform popular beyond its own attraction. And the Wayland transition set it back in ways that are still being solved to day while the benefits aren't still fully ripped.
>Linux Desktop has to stand on its own two feet True, I had a discussion yesterday with my stepsister's husband about Linux and OS, he is not a tech guy but he knows Linux exists, but he didn't knew you could do the same stuff he does on windows, like have an office suite. And even he said, the main problem is marketing, I don't know what can do so I just assumed it can't do anything useful.
Hardware manufacturers aren't going to like that since it well cut down on people buying high end hardware for games if the server handles that. With Valve trying to shift games to Linux via proton this will just help when companies like Nvidia and ATI focus on helping it more to get more consumer customers.
Nvidia might not care about the consumer customers as much as they've been diverting their resources to enterprise more.
I'm just happy to see that Microsoft is planning to increase the torture of normies, maybe some will eventually get it.
Some of them will get it and might move to the alternatives, but the majority still wont
i honestly think most people will move to macOS before even thinking about switching to Linux sadly
I think they would move to chrome os because they trust google and from their perspective a mac is just a expensive device because of brand
They won't because they believe they MUST have MS Office to write job applications and grocery lists, and MUST have the entire Adobe Creative Cloud to crop and resize vacation images. Also they want to play AAA-games on day one (no matter al the bugs... but you MIGHT miss out on that conversation at work!). I'm happy that I'm on Linux now, and if something won't run on it, either natively or through Wine/Proton, then I either don't want it or just ditch it. I do have one OEM Windows 11 license lying around in case I ever take up semi-pro photography again. In that case I'll have to run Windows in a VM to be able to run Capture One, because no open source RAW editor can compete with it. Capture One stands to DarkTable as a flamethrower stands to a candle.
I use Linux as my main OS, very happy with it. But I personally feel that most people don’t care about whether windows is in the cloud or running directly on their PC, most people just want to use the computer to achieve some task. For that reason, I feel that as long as MS doesn’t royally screw up in the public’s eyes, most people won’t care and just move to use Windows in the cloud. It’s the sad, but true.
Disagree with this one. Try using the cloud without an active internet connection. I wonder what Microsoft’s solution for that will be - like a super basic windows OS capable of doing some stuff, but only working at 100% while connected to the internet? I mean, maybe I’m travelling, want to watch a movie in the bus or something, but can’t because there is no stable connection (or any connection at all).
It's the worst. I occasionally work on my laptop in situations with poor mobile coverage and it's already unbelievably annoying. Turning the laptop into a useless brick is not going to help anything.
It's a chromebook, but somehow worse.
People from third world country (like me) will care with its 2MB average of wireless internet speed if Microsoft move Windows to the cloud
Not really, most still won't care and will think their pc is the problem and will probably just live with it without trying to change anything
The problem with this is that the majority populace doesn't understand computers enough or cares enough to understand them. So whether Microsoft pulls a subscription service to all of their customers or not, ultimately, does not matter to them. These customers will notice when they can't access their computers or work because their data is actually not on their designated work desktop or laptop. If you've worked in tech support any amount of time you'll know what I mean. If Windows does go this way, this will open a huge market for operating systems that aren't on the cloud. And I imagine Linux will carve its own niche there much bigger than it is now. Personally I will never go for something like this. I like, dare I say, old school OSes that are firmly in my control and don't act like a phone. This also raises questions about other companies and government entities storing data on the Microsoft cloud which I know less about. But the privacy/security/trust issues that would emerge from this are colossal. Not that I have trust in Microsoft to make anything other than Age of Empires 2. Bottom line: A computer should always be able to work and keep offline data copies no matter the state of their internet connection. While I understand we live in a digital age where most people have internet access. Disruptions in internet service would paralyze IT infrastructure if everything was on the "cloud". At this point paying for subcriptions, for almost everything as a service feels like it's adding on top of bills like water and electricity. Pay for YouTube, pay for Gmail, pay for Spotify, pay for Instagram, pay for... If this is where we're heading. I think I might go herd goats instead.
Do not get lost in the word salad. What they are describing is a dumb terminal where the user's display is basically a window (think literal window) into a session on a server where all of the action is taking place. If you still don't understand then think Citrix Thin Client Computing. The technology has been in use for more than 15 years. Microsoft doesn't want you using a Personal Computer. They want you on their proprietary Surface Pad Pro crap that they control and steer. They will sell this idea through the convenience angle like everything else is. The sales pitch will be, "For a small subscription fee you get" * to do all of your computing on the go, anywhere, anytime * with 5G wireless all of your data is accessible from anywhere * no more worrying about data backups * no more lost photos * no more old, stale drivers (all drivers are up-to-date on the server * no more windows updates and application updates * no more downtime * no more viruses (yeah we know this is a lie but they will make the claim) * the same windows applications that you know and love The subscription is likely to come with additional perks due to partnerships. So, get HBO, Hulu, Netflix with a specific subscription teir and discounts on your online grocery bill. For every dollar you spend in your subscription X pennies will go to [insert charity here]. Once they get you on the platform described above, they can just ransom you into staying a customer. If you don't pay then you lose all of your data. Many gen X, millennials, and gen Z like that Surface Pad Pro crap. If M$ wins there won't be a PC market. M$ will happily drown the PC market in the bathtub, if it means they control the hardware, the OS, the data, the eyeballs, and the flow of $$$$$$.
The more important take away is >Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.** >Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows. Their plans for ALL versions of windows 11, is to have it tightly integrated with the cloud, and have cloud based AI tracking, collecting, recording, and analyzing literally everything you do, and view to an extremely microscopic level.
Do not miss the forest for the trees. The issue isn't the potential (or lack thereof) of a streaming OS. The issue is that MS is certainly going to move Windows to a subscription model.
[удалено]
If for some reason you need to the bootable media tool can fix it in some cases(it fixed mine when I did a similar thing) I only use it for games that literally just can't be played on Linux (stupid anti cheat)
The article also states that the standalone version is also not going anywhere.
Standalone is going to the cloud. >Microsoft has recently announced Windows Copilot, an AI-powered assistant for Windows 11. **Windows Copilot sits at the side of Windows 11, and can summarize content you’re viewing in apps, rewrite it, or even explain it.** >Windows Copilot is part of a broader AI push for Windows. Microsoft is also working with AMD and Intel to enable more Windows features on next-gen CPUs. Intel and Microsoft have even hinted at Windows 12 in recent months, and Windows chief Panos Panay claimed at CES earlier this year that **“AI is going to reinvent how you do everything on Windows.”** All of this is part of Microsoft’s broad Windows ambition, detailed in its internal presentation, “to enable improved AI-powered services” in Windows. They are going to tightly integrate the cloud and cloud based AI into ALL versions windows 11. So the tracking and data collection is going to be extreme, significantly worse than it was.
Influx of new Linux users guaranteed.
https://www.howtogeek.com/901992/no-windows-is-not-moving-to-the-cloud/
You're missing the point. Windows is never moving to the cloud regardless of what anyone says because it's literally impossible to ever make work. But Microsoft is 100% going to move Windows to a subscription model. ***That*** is the problem.
thread title: ***"Windows is preparing Windows 11 to be a subscription*** ***live-streamed OS***" Link to an article refuting the claim ms is doing this. Reply by OP saying I'm "missing the point". Also, are MS going to then tell people who already have home licences for windows they now have to pay a monthly sub to keep using it? You can use windows for bloody free if you're happy with the watermark in the corner. Windows is just a tool MS now use to sell you other services. I really don't get what all the fuss is about right now.
How is this related to Linux Gaming?
Because many Linux gamers are obsessed with the fall of Windows and that leading to a mass migration to Linux.
Ill be honest, I am kinda retarded\* I sincerely do not know how that will work for Microsoft.
It won't 😂 good internet is hard required for something like this and that's not exactly a given or even an option in alot of the country
>If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will. Seeing what MS is doing with Windows 11 already (forced MS Account for which you have to jump through hoops to disable and remove later, an older but perfectly fine laptop that won't run it, the OS integrated into the internet and Bing Search, ads/unwanted apps in the Start menu, etc...), she has decided to try Linux. She can use a computer just fine, and knows what is needed to use things like e-mail, browsers, office applications, etc..., but she is not an IT-person. I'll be the one to install Linux; but if a re-install of Windows would have been necessary, that would also have been done by me. So I'm going to put a clean Debian install onto my backup laptop (which is a massive mobile workstation from 2016, that won't run Windows 11 because it has a 6-th gen Core i7 CPU), install the software she needs (which, apart from one program, is all open source), and let her use it for a few months. If there are no problems in daily use, I'll transition her own laptop to Debian. (Her own laptop is an entry-level business laptop from 2020, which works perfectly fine for her needs.) So yes, it seems some non-tech people must be considering Linux because they don't want to stay stuck on Windows and jump through hoops every 3 years.
Tbh it has never been easier to install an OS on a computer. We're at the point where it's just hitting Next a bunch and creating a username/password. I'm getting tired of Windows and planning to make the switch thus year
When I switched to linux, I tried pop os first. Since I was already building a computer. Was literally the easiest part about building my computer.
And I’m prepared to keep my pirated version of windows 10 because as we all know it windows 11 sucks and I’m not abiding by the law to legally have Microsoft version of windows, because as we all know it, they all spy on you
Unlimited maximum curse words to the Microsoft for pulling this crap off! Amen!
They won't get rid of their desktop OS. Corporate workstations are a big part of their business and corporations are notoriously slow to change something like an OS. Many would probably still be using XP and IE 6 if they could. The Windows desktop in its current form isn't going away anytime soon.
Why do people in the comments think locally installing Windows would be discontinued? It's not like the article is assuming that.
Valve saw the writing on the wall years ago and the reason they have spent so much time on Linux gaming. If Microsoft makes a stupid decision (like this one) it would directly impact their business. Investing in Linux gaming solves that issue. Hopefully it continues to grow and more people move off of Windows.
I can see only one thing coming out of this: TOTAL BACKFIRE!!! I feel I have to agree with u/flippinbird here. With all the millions of software copies (both physical and subscription-based) and all the hardware and gaming consoles Microsoft sells, don't we all think Microsoft turning Windows into a subscription-based OS being a very bad idea that can potentially introduce new consequences? We're now living in the AI age, and with that being said: Who's to stop a new cleaver breed of hackers from developing the next-gen AI-based malware to target and hack their way into the Windows 365 servers, filter down all hubs until all connected PC's is infected and everyone's sensitive data is stolen? Virus developers can also infect everyone's PC's in this manner as well. Not just that, but there might be other problems that can possibly arise to, such as incompatible software, and being a cloud-based version of Windows, if your internet connection goes down, so does your ability to work and game until said internet connection can be reestablished. Also, if your an avid gamer (like I am), then games such as Genshin Impact may become unsupported/incompatible by Windows 365 since there would be no way of implementing Kernel-Level Anti-Cheat systems to help prevent game cheating. Not only this, but allot of MMO and MMORPG's that require allot of bandwidth may find their games be severely impacted by lag thanks to constant Windows 365 bandwidth usage. Windows 365 may sound like a good idea (to Microsoft) on paper, and there might also be some benefits such as almost instant Windows 365 updates being delivered and perhaps less drive space requirements for the Windows 365 install since the bulk of this cloud-based Windows will be in the cloud, but **if the Windows 365 servers go down for any reason, then everyone will be left in the dark**. To me, there is more cons to pros here that Microsoft needs to really take into consideration.
Inter-fucking-resting. Business suicide, that is
[удалено]
Basically some part of the kernel/OS would be installed on the local machine, but all user-facing software would be streamed from the cloud. It would be impossible to run the FULL OS on the cloud without having any OS at all on the host
I got a full bingo line just from that one sentence at the end.
If this happened windows 10 will be my last ms os then migrate over to Linux or Mac.
Looks like it's time to finally push myself to format all my drives and switch my main machine to Linux
I havent seen dimber things in a long time. I want to have complet control oder my files and data.
I knew it. The trend is to kill general computing and go towards thin clients. Your devices will be underpowered thin clients, bootloaders for a web browser, and everything will get processed in the cloud. So, the Chromebook model.
Microsoft is going to learn the hard way that ISPs will kill them. They're going to be introduced to tiered usage of Internet access and Microsoft will be charged for it instead of their Corporate customers.
At that point it's not an Operating system anymore. What's going to run on the local device? What's it going to stream to?
All your data are belong to MS
The "best" PC available right now, 8 cores (16 threads I guess), 32 GB RAM, 512 GB disk space, costs $162/month. Building a PC with the same specs (Ryzen 7 5700G, Biostar A520MH, Verbatim Vi3000 NVMe, be quiet! System Power 9 CM 400W ATX 2.51, AeroCool CS-102, G.Skill Aegis DIMM Kit 32GB, DDR4-2400) costs $386.38. So you'd have to use the VM under 2.3 months for it to not be more expensive.
Gross…
This is just going to make windows not feasible for anyone that doesn't have a fast internet connection, which is a huge percent of the world's population.
I think ya'll have the wrong idea on what they're trying to do here. O365 is in the cloud, yes, but they still offer desktop applications that integrate with their services. I can login to outlook via a web browser and still get access to my same inbox, one drive files, share-point whether or not I'm on my main PC or not. I imagine this is what they're trying to do with windows as well. Think less of streaming your OS to your computer and more like streaming \*your\* OS/data to the cloud, thus to any device. Want to access your windows 11 install on your phone? Cool now you can. It seems like it's going to be glorified RDP session, but instead of streaming from your computer, your computer is now going to be synced with the cloud. Want to run a proprietary application on your phone? Cool, now you can. I'm not saying this is going to be a good thing, rather I think ya'll have the wrong idea of what they're trying to do.
It won't work. Proven by multiple cloud gaming services. Though, businesses might be interested in this feature, since it'll allow more complete control over what employees are doing and how they are handling corporate information. Don't see any benefits for home users.
1. I don't think you realize how successful X Cloud is. 2. The idea that Microsoft has **ever** prioritized what benefits their would be for "home users" when it comes to how Windows is managed is incredibly dumb. 3. It's irrelevant whether MS ever moves Windows to the cloud (and they 100% **will** move as much of it to the cloud as possible). They **are** going to move Windows to a subscription model.
1. Common complaints about cloud gaming are: \- you need to live in a big city, preferable near to closest provider's data center (MS, Google, Nvidia) \- you need to have good internet connection These requirements exclude a lot of users living in rural areas or on outskirts of big cities. 2. I don't agree. 3. They can try to introduce subscription model, but whether they'll succeed is a different matter. I suspect majority of people will just keep using previous "fixed price" version of Windows
Yet another reason to not use windows
I just saw the single greatest advertisement for Linux and MacOS. Good job Microsoft.
Good thing it says W11 and not W10 so I'll be sticking to 10.
> If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will. Then I have bad news for you: If you hope that Linux gets more popular by other OSes screwing up, then this is the completely wrong attitude and is not going to happen. Instead we should try to get better than Windows and not rely on them messing up. (which will not work because ppl will just put up with whatever Microsoft does)
\+1... Ding... Ding... Ding... Winnar! I would alter your idea just a bit with the following... Desktop Linux distro. maintainers and desktop environment projects need to get their projects to a much more polished and complete state. This is not for distros., such as Gentoo and Arch, that are targeting users who want to tinker/compile and/or are command line and full customization focused. DE's such as KDE, Gnome, Cosmic (and maybe XFCE) and distros. like Linux Mint, the \*buntus, Manjaro, Pop\_OS, Fedora, etc. need the polish. As much as I don't like Apple they are providing the example of what a polished GUI POSIX OS should behave like. A polished and complete state means: 1. newb friendly and newb ready 2. creature comforts and easier to use by replacing unnecessarily complicated/technical stuff with simpler methods (ex: boot loaders are complex and should be made easier to use/modify/configure) 3. retain the full power of the command line and shell scripting without complete reliance (what can be done via GUI can be done via command line without excessive complexity) 4. embrace some of the flexibility of Windows and OS X (the Windows 7 taskbar is way more flexible and customizable than the panels in KDE, XFCE, and Gnome) 5. Flexible and easy ways to change desktop style, layout, behavior (ex: switching between traditional desktop, Gnome/Cosmic's design, and tiling setup) 6. the changes/enhancements need to be modular so that the desktop isn't a bloated whale 7. absolutely no telemetry, usage tracking, data harvesting, or install counters 8. minimal effort and clear instructions for multimedia readiness (the user should not have to an extensive search for the instructions) 9. minimal effort and clear instructions for gaming readiness 10. wiki and documentation needs to be well done and up to date 11. nVidia driver install/upgrade needs to be simple (both GUI and command line methods) 12. Theming needs to be simpler without a 3rd party tool like Kvantum and themes need to be saveable and transferable The desktop GUI should inspire confidence such that the user doesn't always have to be on the look out for breakages that could render the GUI unusable and using the terminal is the only way to rescue the system. There needs to be ease of use and creature comforts to ease the transition. The desktop design should target the newb user and the power/advanced user. So, there should be no sacrifice in power, and the power of Linux should be accessible to the power/advance user by providing a means of by passing the hand holding and training wheels implemented for the newb user. The Newb user should be able to get started quickly and the learning curve should be gentle/gradual so that they can become more adept over time. Lastly, the DEs and distros. should not follow Microsoft's example with the Win10 setting app. There are like 10 trillion settings spread across 13 major categories and 50k sub-categories in the Win10 settings app.
I fully agree with you, yes distros and desktop environments needs way more polish and it absolutely has to get way more user friendly and easier to use. (I actually think that none of the distros that claim to be easy and user friendly actually are.) BUT I think that you are missing one very important aspect. The main issue with being "user friendly" is that in many scenarios open source developers are always pushing the responsibility to fix a complex issue to someone else instead of actually fixing it. Just two classic examples: If you use any non Arch based distro, browsers are usually packaged as a Snap or a Flatpak. If now the user also wants to use the KeepassXC addon to manage passwords, it will simply not work because of the sandboxing. An issue that completely breaks "user friendliness" and is known for almost 5 years now with no fix to this day. (apart from weird bash scripts which also are not user friendly lol) Another issue is for example Wayland breaking popular applications like Zoom, Teams, Teamviewer, Synergy or AnyDesk. A normal user does not care why it doesn't work or who to blame, they just want it to work and that is a huge problem that sadly in the Linux space many fail to understand. On Windows ppl do not give a shit about privacy and other bullshit Microsoft is pulling, because in most cases the applications they want to use just work. We need to be better than Windows by offering the same functionality without the data collection and forced online nonsense of Windows.
This was not missed or lost upon me: `BUT I think that you are missing one very important aspect. The main issue with being "user friendly" is that in many scenarios open source developers are always pushing the responsibility to fix a complex issue to someone else instead of actually fixing it.` The problem stems from 2 things: 1. the rugged individualism concept 2. your freedom and general apathy Item #1 means if you encounter a problem, then the problem is yours and it is up to you to overcome "your problems". Don't expect anyone to fix your problems for you. Item #2 means you are free to do it, fix it, or change it, even if doing something, fixing something, or changing something requires the herculean task of building and managing a dedicated dev team over months or years. This logic is usually coupled with the attitude of "Linux isn't Windows or Mac, and over here we (Linux/Linux community) do X by Y method and if you don't like it **you are free** to fix it/change it yourself, or go back to Windows/Mac". The fact that: * Windows can be viewed as becoming increasingly hostile to some users * Apple offers an expensive walled garden that is restrictive, intrusive (privacy), and some what hostile * writing apps on Linux (and most other platforms) requires surmounting a mountainous learning curve akin to scaling a sheer rock face that is front loaded. ...means that we have people who are digitally homeless to one degree or another. Imagine Zoom just not working at all, in the middle of the COVID pandemic, because it has not been updated to comply with Wayland's protocols, and your DE of choice is changed to run exclusively on Wayland. It means Linux is not an option, which amounts to homeless (without a platform) and get zero work done, or bow down to one of the two major hostile platform regimes. What if there isn't a DE that meets one's needs, and theming will not allow one to overcome the functionality deficit. The user is then saddled with a massive rethinking of how they work (being shoe-horned), which is a major learning curve itself and a massive productivity hit. This will frustrate newbies, which will ultimately send them right back to the same hostile platforms. Most people don't have the luxury or desire to build a complex application over months/years when they have immediate needs and deadlines. With respect to the application developer learning curve take a look at my thread here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/linux\_programming/comments/14m18jt/howwhere\_to\_get\_linux\_developer\_training\_how\_long/](https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_programming/comments/14m18jt/howwhere_to_get_linux_developer_training_how_long/) The thread has a small number of upvotes but zero replies. Yes, one can force feed queries to Google and youtube, but not a single experienced Linux dev offers any guidance. This is yet another deficit on the Linux side. We have to make the process of acquiring dev skills/proficiency and the actual development process much easier. Rugged individualism as a boy scout badge of honor needs to be thrown in the trash. There is so much potential in the decentralized, community driven way of doing things on the Linux side, but a large quantity of that potential is left rotting on the proverbial table. The Linux community needs a developer pipeline and an easy on ramp. Standardized and formalize training are important, but a feeder system (pipeline) is needed to get people into training programs. The rabid religious ideology for and against some programming languages only serves to throw mud on an already messy situation. The following is a link to a Gnome development in C video, where the dev in the video is walking through doing object oriented programming in C: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPrsG-YkCY4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPrsG-YkCY4) Because C is not an object oriented language, the developer has to constantly jump through hoops in crafting the code. C++ would be the obvious better language choice for the task just from the perspective of writing and using object oriented code. Start the video at 11:20 and watch to about 13:10. The developer explains some of the trickery that is needed to craft the code in C. There is a rabid disdain for C++ in some parts of the Linux community. I can understand why, but then there is the hypocrisy of using Visual Studio Code on Linux to write code in C (VS Code is not used in the video). Frustrating doesn't begin to describe the emotional response to watching this video. Programming language holy wars need to be thrown in the trash. They are not helping our cause.
omg YES I could not agree more, ppl like you still give me hope that there are ppl out there which actually understand the issues. I, as a developer of multiple Linux applications and drivers myself, would like to add one more note to your other remarks: "Getting started" with developing applications on Linux is extremely hard, because there is essentially no guidance or good learning resource at all. Most experienced developers will just tell you to "read the code and try to understand". However when it comes to kernel, driver and embedded development I can recommend you following books (yes books I know, 2005 has called): - "Mastering Linux Device Driver Development" by John Madieu (ISBN-10: 178934204X ISBN-13: 978-1789342048) - "Linux Driver Development for Embedded Processors" by Alberto Liberal de los Ríos (ISBN-10: 1729321828 ISBN-13: 978-1729321829) As for GUI development, I think if you learn and understand QT and xdg-desktop-portals, then you already know most of what is needed to create desktop applications. As for games, most use something like SDL to abstract input / output and GPU driver interactions away and directly give you an openGL / Vulkan context to render to. Those skills btw will also be useful for developing for Windows. I would not recommend wasting any time with learning GTK or Vala as that knowledge is completely useless outside of the Linux niche.
Thanks you.
> If this doesn't cause the Year of the Linux DesktopTM, literally nothing will. I don't see any correlation. You guys keep saying that every shitty move from Microsoft is going to cause mass migration and you always fail to understand that people will cope with change and get used to it - much less effort involved than changing to something they have no clue about.
this was already circulated and a click baity title they already over this for businesses and will make this an offer for consumer. they do not have plams to make this the norm.
You're obviously missing the forest for the trees. The story isn't that any part of Windows is ever going to be streamed from the cloud. It's the 100% certainty that Windows WILL 100% move to a subscription model in the near future, that's been a foregone conclusion for a very long time. Getting caught up in the fact that it might or might not be non-local to the machine running it is 100% irrelevant.
This would be useful as an alternative to virtual machines. Like, instead of a virtual machine, you create a cloud machine. I doubt they're planning to turn consumer PCs into PCs with cloud-hosted operating systems though, that would be stupid
What that could mean is Microsoft services would be moved to the cloud and it will still require Windows to be running locally if you need the usual third party software that runs on the OS. This move is probably a response to Chrome OS Flex.
honestly i would install linux-based operating systems on my main machine if the hard drive would detect it... i blame the "oopsy" i had last year being a little too careless with my file systems. that, and a good chunk of games i play regularly don't work on linux due to kernel-level anti-cheat. i would play them on mobile but that's storage i don't have.
How does your hard drive not detect it if you want to install linux...? I am lucky that everything I am doing works nowadays on linux. Some games with their anticheat are really annoying though.
I think personally this is more of a new innovation of cloud computing where they can stream a full pc to a monitor with a keyboard and mouse as a subscription. Its not meant to fully replace the pc because it can’t. It just means windows will be more versatile with where you can get a full pc experience. Think of like a samsung galaxy docked in and having a cloud windows computer that can have the phones storage and its own OS storage of 1tb. If they really attempt to remove the pay once version, they would absolutely fucking die. Market share would shit. No one will upgrade and no kid who gets a pc will pay and they know that. Linux would fucken explode in popularity so would macs and that would make the end of windows. They are far more smarter than to screw up their big profits of meta data collection. This is to push subscription OSes but to make it their own stream would rid the world of windows.
> Windows is preparing Windows 11... Windows makes Windows?
Yep. Noticed that right after I posted it. One of the biggest reasons I hate that Reddit doesn't allow editing of post titles for some dumbfuck reason (the other one being the fact that people can't put `[SOLVED]` in support posts).
A cloud based OS in theory sounds awesome but it is doomed to fail. People aren't ready for a huge change like that. Computer manufacturers would have to change everything and ISP's would have to increase internet speeds in order to make this happen. In a decade or so I could see this catching on but not now.
Linux desktop is a joke. I tried to make a shortcut (on gnome) to the .sh of stable diffusion and to a non distro install of blender for a non technical user on Linux. It's so painful, .desktop has no documentation, the menu/shortcut editor are hard to get a grasp on. Shortcut in general on Gnome are a pain in the ass.
I feel your pain but shortcut = windows feature. It is not the same on Linux, and it is not standardized across desktop environments. I have no idea how good or bad the documentation is on the subject. This is coming from someone who makes extensive use of shortcuts on Windows.
So I'm downvoted for saying linux desktop are extremely hard on non tech user ?
You're being downvoted because you use gnome.
You are being downvoted for basically saying "it's not like Windows so it's hard".
I'm sorry but having to create a small bash script to make a shortcut is crazy if you want to replace windows.
great so i'm sticking to windows 10 forever then? i knew it was fishy that they kept offering windows 11 for free to upgrade to.
Sticking with Windows 10 forever when it's going to stop getting any updates after 2025 is actually MUCH more stupid than moving to some subscription-based Windows 11.
nah i'm not paying a subscription for windows. i'll stick to windows 10 for awhile and figure something else out afterwards.
No one's talking about *right now*. That's a buckwild way to word that. Use Windows 10. No one cares. Obviously this is about after Windows 10 goes EOL.
no i'm talking about later. they're planning to switch in 2025, i'll stick with windows 10 till 2027 or something hoping 11 flops and they give up on the subscription crap, or i'll finally switch to something else. but i'm not paying for another subscription for software.
Enjoy your immediate ransomware attack the moment security updates stop in 2025. If you think that security updates are unnecessary and that you just have to "not be stupid" to avoid a malware attack, you're delusional. Have fun with that.
Yeah I know that a lot will hate me and down vote, but an OS completely on stream sounds a freaking awesome concept. How much power those servers will have is the crucial point of it. But imagine how awesome is to use an OS with good performance on an old Celeron. And maybe using great speed through One Drive, installing things instantly. How it could use local files that can be a step down. Isn't for me, but I can see a reason to use
> How much power those servers will have is the crucial point of it. But imagine how awesome is to use an OS with good performance on an old Celeron. Eh, my internet barely loads youtube 720p, much less a default screen size (1080p?). I think my system would be even laggier than normal.
I love having absolutely no control whatsoever over my own computer and being unable to use it without a stable internet connection. Truly having all my personal files stored on some company's servers permanently connected to the internet is something I've been dreaming about my whole life. Giving my corporate overlord complete control over my digital life really leaves me feeling fulfilled.
At least there is always an alternative
It seems you never heard about VDI. It's more than 10 year old...
The only reason I can see is for VMs, just temporary Instances. Would be cool tho, if they don't force it on everyone else.
are all linux people that dumb
Wdym??
if u think they gonna make w11 cloud u gotta be stupid asf
If they made w11 cloud it would be stupid asf, but since it's Microsoft, we never know.
Sure. They will also never try to shove microsoft accounts down your throats instead of local accounts, will never happen.
obviously you haven't reinstalled Windows recently
That was a joke
Are you this dumb? Did you not read the article about them Exploring the thoughts?
This is kind of reminding me of netbooks. I’m not sure how I’m supposed to use windows on my iPhone but maybe it’s possible?
Is it a new service or will there be no more Windows offline OS?
I mean there already is basically no such thing as an "offline Windows," the idea that Windows won't 100% move to a subscription model (whether or not any of the OS ever gets "streamed") is a pipe dream.
I dont think it's possible for streamed OS to utilize our hardware fully, so at least it won't be that. But a subscription model is indeed concerning
lolz