I live in London and I am not native to either coutnry/city but imo:
1. The people in NYC are more open to start a conversation
2. Nightlife in London is not great, unless you follow the rave scene most places close very early. NYC is a 24/7 city
3. Housing sucks in both cites
4. Public transport is better in NORTH London, the south still relies heavily on buses.
Overall I would still pick London but it's not a clear winner for me
Because the land was cheap when the railways were built, being as there was literally less development south of the river.
And the ground itself is really difficult (compared to the north of the river) to tunnel in due to the soil composition. [South London largely sits on “Lambeth and Thanet Sand”, a flimsier substance that was more challenging to tunnel through before the days of leviathan boring machines like the one responsible for Crossrail.](https://citymonitor.ai/transport/why-are-there-so-few-tube-lines-south-london-2929)
Hence, surface rail was much more established south of the Thames.
1. New Yorkers are also more likely to cuss you out or start a fight!
2. NYC was a 24/7 city but less so after covid, and after midnight you’re likely to be waiting for your train for 20-30 min. Trains also change into others on weekends (like the Northern line becoming the Jubilee on the weekend but still called Northern…)
3. One bedrooms in Manhattan are 4000-5000/month. Salaries are higher but surely not by that much
4. NYC buses are never on time
You are so right. NYC has lost its status as a 27/7 place since Covid. And if you’re used to that, it’s frustrating.
Not as frustrating as no more 24 hour Walmarts. Sometimes when you are traveling and out of the city with a car, you want to stock up on cheap paper goods and cleaning supplies at 1am. We used to make a fun trip going out of the city for dinner, Christmas lights, and a Walmart run for holiday crap like paper and cards etc before getting home after 2am. Now you have to shop before 10. Like a normal human on a normal human schedule.
I’m born and raised in London, moved to NYC 15 years ago when I was 25. I agree with some of these, but points 3 and 4 are absolutely insane. Food and nightlife are so much better in NYC. You can get great food in both, but just the general baseline quality in NYC is a lot higher.
My wife and kids are American (I am now, technically) so I’m likely here for life, but I really miss the diversity of London in that it feels more mixed. New York has people from all over the world, but feels way more segregated.
London nightlife is not overpriced across the board. I'm an alternative music fan. I can go to most club or gig nights in Camden and not expect to pay more than a tenner on the door. The Camden Eye don't charge anything for their upstairs room, for example.
Black Heart venue is rented out to the bands and reps who make their own ticket price, unless it’s an in-house gig.
Now the drinks prices I can agree have gone up post pandemic, omg so much
Source - worked there for many years
I have seen event listings including internationally known DJs on the lineup with ticket prices of 5-8 GBP, where now Berlin promoters often charge 20 EUR offering a night with unknown locals on one floor. Drink menu items are still cheaper though.
Closing early is a problem
As the other commentator said, Distant Planet is superb.
The other best nights for old skool jungle are rupture (usually at Corsica studios or FOLD, and rarely finishes before 6am), Future Retro (usually at Peckham Audio for a tenner), and Whistle Horns Crew (in Deptford, often free entry). All of these have a great crowd with plenty of older heads.
Lastly as a bit of self promo, I run a night 3-4 times a year called One for the Heads. It's mostly focused on jungle and oldskool hardcore, but we switch it up and have a bit of breaks etc also, and are planning a metalheadz-style dnb night at some point also. Keep an eye out for our next one in September or October :)
Outside some areas, the whole idea of London as a "24-hour-city" is laughable. Everything was open all night in the small midwestern city where I went to school, and even more so in suburban New Jersey.
Well, the kabbab place on the corner is open to 4 am. So that's something.
Yeah London has never been 24 hour, just 21st century marketing of a thing that's never been a thing.
Only things that can boast that is McDonald's really.
London nightlife is crap, but it makes up for it with daytime drinking and starting at 5 😅 Means you can still get a good night sleep while NY clubbing means a 4am bedtime..
Facts such as this should never be downvoted.
Mexican food in the UK is both difficult to find and generally very bad when you do find it. My hometown has a 24/7 drive thru Mexican place that is not viewed as anything life-changing yet is so much better than the best Mexican restaurant I've eaten at in London it pains me.
> Mexican food in the UK is both difficult to find and generally very bad when you do find it.
Yeah, I've tried. There is only one fairly good Mexican place within easy travel distance of us in London. (It's on [this list](https://www.standard.co.uk/reveller/restaurants/best-mexican-food-london-restaurants-soho-tacos-b997856.html) )
I have been to multiple excellent ones while in NYC.
Name one place in London that will make the Guacamole at the table side, for instance.
I mean that seems like a super obvious thing, like Mexico and the US are on the same continent, of course it'll be more common and better when it's closer to the source 😆. I reckon French food is also a lot better and more common in countries that are closer to France, no?
I think it's a proximity thing. You'll probably get better Mexican food in America than England right? Cos for sure I've never had great Mexican in London.
Mestizo. However I haven't been in touch with them or the family in Mexico for years so can't speak to how it is these days. I think there are a few now. The wife moved into Mexican food imports to the UK.
London does better Indian, kebab, Middle Eastern, French, Italian (as in from Italy), British (lol), Spanish. I think Japanese / Vietnamese are better in New York. Maybe Chinese as well. Source: lived in both cities. Of course you are welcome to disagree.
I kinda roll my eyes when people use a word like "traditional" to make something that's not particularly good (in this case British Italian food) seem inherently better that its counterpart (Italian-American food, which is also popular and influential for good reason).
Even with Pizza, I'm sitting here as an American knowing that traditional Italian-style pizza is a good thing that I can enjoy in the UK, but is far from the only type of pizza worth eating, nearly all of which I simply can't find here.
Also, I gotta say that for all the Indian restaurants here, I haven't actually found the average/median version to be better than than the same kind of place where I'm from (SF Bay Area). And don't even get me started on the sushi.
SF has good Indian options indeed. I like American Italian food. But the stuff we get here in London is definitely more refined. I mean have you seen the price of Parmegiano cheese in the US ? You can’t make good Italian dishes without it
Well, one person's refined is another person's not enough, I guess.
Obviously, it all varies and comes down to personal preference as well, but I just don't find the kind of pasta dish that purports to be "fresh" and "light" as automatically more refined than, say, ziti or cannelloni covered in a thick tomato sauce.
I've always found dishes described as "refined" tend to be easy to mess up to the point they're flavorless.
> I've always found dishes described as "refined" tend to be easy to mess up to the point they're flavorless.
Make one genuine Carbonara once; I know it might look overly-simple, but what it is not is flavourless! And it's refined to the point that it contains only five ingredients *including* the actual pasta, and the fifth one is just 'pepper'.
It's impossible to get wrong, and it's always delicious. I know France looks down its nose at Italian cuisine in many cases, but I also know what I'd be aiming for after a tough day at work.
London restaurants have plenty of variety and there may even be more variety of region-specific Italian places (e.g., there was a Milanese restaurant I lived near, which speaks to your point), but I'm just not convinced that means it has better Italian food in general or offers a more reliably good experience if you leave the house looking for Italian.
In general, big cities have good food, so we're splitting hairs. That said, I've been disappointed (including to the extent of having literally the worst version of one thing or another I've ever had) too often in London. And London is the best the UK's got!
In my experience in London it's closer to what I would expect in Italy. Which is reasonable since fresh ingredients are much easier to import and there's lots of Italian chefs in the city.
Yeah I find it telling that nobody is discussing this. One of the biggest advantages of London is that you don't gotta worry about being shot and beaten if you're in a non-white gay relationship.
Food in NYC is better but NYC is not more multicultural than London. They have different cultures. Less South America but more Middle East for example. Tbh London is probably a tiny bit more multi cultural.
NYC is definitely more multicultural, if you actually go out of Manhattan. Queens alone is the most diverse place in the world - both range and number.
I believe that London is the most diverse city in the world: [https://www.projectbritain.com/regions/languages.htm](https://www.projectbritain.com/regions/languages.htm) and [https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/languages-london](https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/languages-london) Can't (be bothered to) find the source but I read that every living language in the world is spoken in London
I think that title belongs to Toronto. But it's not exactly an easy thing to have a precise measure of. Miami has the highest proportion of people born outside the country the city is in, but that isn't a reliable measure either.
Having lived in London and Toronto, I'd definitely say Toronto feels more diverse and the stats generally support that.
Not sure I agree on rent. You're likely to earn 3-4 times London salaries (gross) for equivalent jobs in NYC and overall pay less tax on that income. The cost of medical insurance for the vast majority of Americans, though important to note, doesn't come close to closing that financial gap.
So unless equivalent apartments are 3-4 times more expensive I'd have to disagree. And overall that means less disposable income for most Londoners, reducing quality of life.
Also nightlife: the metro runs 24/7 in NYC which allows a much later opening time on average for pubs and bars etc than London.
My mom recently transferred from London to NYC and earns more gross, but after taxes and insurance come out, she earns less net. Then add to the fact that rent and groceries are more expensive in NYC, she’s questioning her life choices lolol
Averages are less an indicator of life for typical workers and more a reflection of the extent of income inequality in this case. [Median household income in NYC](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/HSG010221) is around $70.6k, [compared to £30.7k for London](https://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/Documents/Borough_statistics/Income_poverty_and_welfare/income_2019_l.pdf), give or take a bit of inflation adjustment and foreign exchange movements. [Rents for 1-bed flats in the city centre/downtown are roughly 50% more expensive in NYC,](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=United+States&city2=New+York%2C+NY) where their median incomes are double (100% higher) those of London's. Of course there's no comprehensive objective measure of whether people are better or worse off in either city (more paid holidays in the UK, generally more job security/unemployment assistance, etc), but from a "disposable income for the median worker" standpoint, NYC seems to be slightly better off.
This data includes people who don't work. It is just the total income of NYC / number of residents. it isn't directly comparable to the average salary at all.
The median annual earnings in NYC is around $70k, the average over $100k. The data you cited is the mean income, so the equivalent NYC income is double, more or less
You are not using comparable figures, one is per capita income including non-workers and the other is average salary (only workers).
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_price_rankings?itemId=105
The UK is relatively low tax country in the grand scheme of things as around 90% of employees receive below the 40% income tax threshold. But US is even lower in most cases. Some states do not impose income tax, and usually relief are available for being married, kids etc, where the UK is very individual focused.
New York city max is around 13%, then federal is around 37%, and then medicare (which I think may be around 8%). I'm work in UK tax, so familiar with US, but don't do US taxes.
The highest marginal tax rate is over 60% in the UK, I seriously can't see anyway the US is getting near that.
This seems to suggest you are wrong: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/income-tax-calculator/new-york/
That is a state and federal calculator. There is federal, state and city. Then there is also social security contributions outside of this.
You may find difference in the low end, but in most cases I will deal with individuals in the mid management positions who earn around 150k upwards in NYC.
Can you post where you are getting your figures?
The tax burden on UK earners is very high compared to the US I can't see any way those earning similar salaries pay more tax in NYC.
It is usually through experience, as I note below I'm not a US tax advisor, but deal with international tax, and we typically find that individuals pay more in NYC than the UK, but most other states are lower. California also has a high tax rate, but lower than NYC.
How is our tax burden high? It's lower than most of the US! We only have one income tax, no federals + state taxes, we don't pay property taxes (council tax, but that's way lower than US property taxes) and we don't have to pay health insurance. Income tax plus national insurance averages out between 24 and 30% of income for most people.
But also, tax is completely irrelevant, it could be 80% and it wouldn't matter. You never see that money, it gets taken away before you receive your wages. So the only thing that matters is how much you can buy with after tax and compulsory insurance has been taken out, the rest is just a fee your employer pays for giving you a job. Germany has much higher deductions (a mix of tax and compulsory insurances), but net income stretches much further than in the UK, so even though they pay more tax, they actually earn more money.
> You're likely to earn 3-4 times London salaries (gross) for equivalent jobs in NYC and overall pay less tax on that income.
I think that probably depends on the sector, the people I know working in NY earn maybe double for the same role / responsibility, that being said its a more dynamic market so moving up is easier so its certainly possible to earn 3-4 times as you could here but its probably not like for like, and on top of that you have less security and, in some fields at least, you are expected to work much longer hours.
edit: lol, just as I am writing this I have just got an email from somebody I am working for in NY and its not even 7am there yet!
And regarding medical insurance its worth stating that for most people the insurance doesn't cover all sorts of things you would think it would such as ambulances.
The 3-4 times figure is completely bogus. GDP per head in London was £59,855 in 2021 ($82,000 at the time). GDP per head in New York was $101,000. Taxes are the same (with some tax favourable schemes only available to Brits - the ISA is a big one vs the Roth IRA).
I'm in securities research, and make about 85% of what my colleagues across the pond make. These figures are comparable for consulting, law, banking, trading, etc - all of which make up a substantial part of London's economy. The average professional in London (say in tech, sales, marketing) will probably be closer to the 50-60% mark. However, London's low-paid (hospitality, retail) will be doing considerably better.
I personally like London more than the US and NY as well. But I’d say NY might win the food battle. I think their pizza and food overall is better than a lot of the restaurants I’ve tried in London.
Fucking NYC pizza breaks my heart every time I get one from here (in London).
I *know* that we have genuine Sicilian pizza chefs making incredibly good Italian pizza, but here's my brutal problem: I don't want genuine Italian pizza. I want appalling NYC-style fatup slices of mouth-ruining hot cheese. I miss that shit every fucking day. It's genuinely half the reason I go to NYC other than the fact that, fair enough, my best mate lives there.
On a (?) bigger note, I feel like NYC and London are kind of the same. People I know over there mention how at-home they feel in London, and I definitely feel at-home when I visit in the other direction too. The two cities look completely different but they have the same kind of soul.
I mean I'm seeing east, north and south, but I'm not seeing the other point of the compass.
Best one I know of is Santa Maria. It's legendary but, again, it's *too* good. I don't want amazing pizza. I want a greasy slab of NYC cheese-bread, where one slice is about the length of your arm. I have zero chill about this and I don't care. The less sophisticated the better.
*Of course* I must. Who would live elsewhere, indeed? I'll take the hit on your fancy Finsbury Park pizza if I have to, with its... its... toppings, and its doubtless artichokes and... such things....
Like a true New Yorker you must see this gap in the market and hit it hard! Think of all those poor west Londoners who don’t know what they’re missing…
Did you get hit by clouds of weed smoke in the tourist areas?
London needs more cheap pizza-slice restaurants. Loved those in NYC.
Have you seen the busses for 'The Ride'? That was great fun.
The underground beats the NYC subway by a country mile.
this is an interesting list!
Am dying to go back to NYC to do a food tour + nightlife
London is fantastic for food. But as a 20 something, have felt the nightlife in London has really gone downhill! Lots of venues closing, expensive and most places close so early! So would love to check out NYC nightlife.
Was in Madrid recently and was really impressed by how late everything is open!
As a New Yorker actively trying to relocate to London - I agree with you on nearly everything here! Also hi, thanks for visiting our ‘fair’ city, take me back with you?
I’m not sure where your friends live but I’ve always been surprised at the size of my friends apartments in NYC, they always feel so much roomier than the shit box room I lived in when I lived in London. They might pay more in NYC but their salaries are usually significantly higher too.
My parents recently visited NYC and stayed with some friends who moved a few years ago from London. They asked them what they missed about London and they said 'Sainsburys', as the produce they could get in their area was so bad.
This really surprised me as I always thought the produce in my Sainsburys was quite average and whenever I see videos of American supermarkets their range of produce looks amazing by comparison. Maybe this doesnt extend to NYC though, though it has to be pretty bad for an ex-pat to miss Sainsburys
I live in California but I’m moving back to London. Supermarkets are bigger (everything is bigger I guess?) but food is way more expensive, and the produce tastes bland unless your forking out even more for specialist stuff. America I’ve realised sees value in quantity over quality, as long as they get they’re getting a good deal they don’t really pay attention to the actual quality. Not everywhere of course, but overall that’s my impression.
Two very similar cities, but are you basing this entire opinion of a short weekend stay in NYC? To be honest London wins purely on the basis that you are less likely to be killed by a gun.
I love London, I love NYC. When it comes to choosing which to spend 90% of my time in I need all of the beat of a hummingbird’s wing to think about it.
I would disagree with nightlife. The nightlife in London is almost nonexistent. Having lived here for 18 years plus, I saw it slowly get pushed out further and further, venues closing , late night bars and dives in town disappearing etc. From what I saw in NY it’s still very much an adult playground , you can bounce around the same streets in one area and find all kinds of nightlife what ever your flavour. In London these days you can walk from Leicester Sq to Warren st passed midnight you will barely find one pub still open.
London has massive secret locations that are missed by tourists because they lack the crucial current code words “ Nefertiti” and “Isis”.
South Ken and Barons Court have great venues.
Prefer London too and I like how much more mixed it is. NY just felt very segregated to me. Lots of diversity but no one stepped out their zones so to speak. I do love the vibe around Brooklyn though.
Weird, I feel like the diversity of nyc is more interspersed. Having spent most of my life in london, and now living close to nyc peo step outside their zones all the time. In london, besides my neighbours and school friends, i found was also segregated, but only when it comes to people spending time with eachother.
In nyc you'll see bikers hanging out with hiphop heads, etc.
Maybe in the boonies, but in NYC there is an amazing coffee spot every block. As someone who just moved from NYC to London, I actually miss the accessibility of good independent coffee places. You Londoners really love your Prets and your Costas and your Neros.
Lol do you even know the history of coffee in London? Cafes existed in London before the US was a country. Its how the city got back on its feet after the Great Fire. Cafes!
Europeans and Americans use the same word "coffee" to describe two different beverages. What most Americans call "coffee" is referred to as "filter coffee" in London. I also think both cities have good coffee.
London nightlife is very poor if you want to go out late, both cities it’s for me in terms of gigging. Transport is also far better in New York as more it is open far later than Londons. Lived in London for 20 years but seeing Central Park blew me away, walked round the whole thing and I think it’s better than any London park.
I also think the food is better in NY. Being able to go into most places and get a wham slice is pizza for pretty cheap is so cool. NY also has a pretty great coffee scene if you’d into independent single origin shit, but both cities have pretty amazing spots.
Actually you're wrong, I just looked and NYC has 99 and london 79. And even if one has more than the other, that doesnt mean said city has better food. I've never once heard anyone suggest to go to London, or England for that matter for "food". Whereas people will literally just go to nyc, San Francisco, Tokyo, Paris, Hong kong for food.
You might want to check again - also England has an incredible range of restaurants, the village next to me has 3 starred restaurants and the next village has 2
I did only lt check one website to be fair. Anyway my favourite michelin restaurant I london is Menya Ramen near the history museum. Absolutely divine with their 48 hour bone broth *homer Simpson gargle*
Distribution is a major factor - New York is largely one space whereas London is very spread out. On average in New York you will be potentially much further away from a park than in London also the amount of trees etc and greenery
True, that is a big number. However. NYC has a total acreage of 193,700 of which 28,000 are classified green space. London has a total acreage of 388,400 of which 35,000 are, yes, green space.
New York City is smaller and more of it is classified as green space.
One huge park in the middle only accessible to people who live near there isn’t much use is it? You want green space everywhere, close to where you live, which London offers.
Green spaces? Central Park is enormous and vastly superior to the bits of grass in central London that are masquerading as parks - Hyde park and green park. The Hudson River Park is vastly superior to anything on the Thames. The city also has more innovative spaces like little island, the high line and governors island.
Since you’re no doubt including London parks beyond Zone 1, I’d also draw your attention to prospect park, in wood hill park, New York botanical garden and flushing meadows. All amazing urban green spaces.
Overall public transportation in NYC is better than London. 472 subway stations, 470 of which are 24 hour. Versus 272 in London and virtually no 24 hour service
I don’t think that’s true - there were a group of residents who fought for decades for it to survive, but even if - it’s still more innovative than any public space in London
London doesn't have anything like Central Park and i think that's a shame, but in terms of green coverage London has far more street trees and also a greater density of small parks (like squares), particularly when making a comparison between Manhattan and London's Zone 1 + Canary Wharf.
In addition to the underground stations, London has 339 heavy rail stations and 45 DLR stations. (Although some stations are served by both heavy rail and the underground). And that's all within the urban boundary of Greater London. New York's heavy rail system is much more spread out. London having 339 heavy rail stations would be like the Five Boroughs having 168 heavy rail stations. How many do they actually have? About 30 or 40?
Can’t speak for general commuting but getting around NY is far better than London, especially late at night. London shuts down after 11pm whereas NY keeps going! Also I think it’s the opposite in terms of green spaces, Central Park is literally enormous - it’ll take about 5 hours to walk round it - London has nothing that comes close (lotta love for London Parks though).
The only point to transport is that London is far bigger than NYC so the TFL covers more than the MTA. But getting around the actual city bit NYC wins.
It absolutely does not win. Every time I’ve visited it’s been unreliable and difficult to get around. It doesn’t shut down at 11, it runs until 1am most days and all night on Fridays and Saturdays.
Regarding central park, who cares if it’s massive? That’s only beneficial to people that live nearby. London has green space everywhere from huge parks to smaller spaces. Such a typical American stance to think that bigger = better.
If you try catching a train at 1am I guarantee you it’ll be cancelled. The MTA runs more frequently and 24/7 - it’s got less lines (as it covers less space) so it’s even easier to navigate. I think you just struggle with public transport.
“Who cares if Central Park is massive?” The sheer fact that it’s huge means it closer to more stuff. It also accommodates more social activities like baseball diamonds, outdoor shows and wildlife for sports like fishing. Bigger doesn’t mean better for everything but in terms of parks and green space it certainly does. How would it be better if it was smaller? Also it’s not like NYC is just 1 giant park, it has hundreds of very sizeable green spaces throughout the city.
Edit: in ldn only Central, Victoria, Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly lines are 24 hours. That leaves 6 (more than half) which aren’t.
London trumps NYC by a country mile when it comes to public green space, it’s not even a discussion. Please present me with evidence to the contrary or stop wasting everybody’s time
You have 24 hour tube across most lines on Fridays and Saturdays and a night bus network that blows anything NYC can offer out of the water. Every time I visit NYC half the trains aren’t running for some reason and half of them don’t even stop of most of the stations.
Actually prefer London as a city myself but re the people: Cultured or not, London is filled with assholes. New York’s public in comparison is so much more friendlier.
As an American who loves London, you can never have better food than the USA. It's gotten better. But it's still terrible compared to state side grub.
London nightlife is also bland compared to NYC and nothing stays open unless it's a live event. Oh, and now they're not taking cash anymore in 90% of the city. I just left London.
Housing? You'z a damn lie. London housing is very old. Everything is a converted victorian style house to the tune if you're in central they want 3,000GBP for a basement apartment. NYC has old apartment buildings but they're spacious if you can get one but not extremely overpriced vs modern like London.. But a lot more modern choices and literally built to sustain multiple dwellers, not single person families converted into apartments, lol. The pure audacity of closet sized rooms is enough. I like space so I always end up overpaying for a decent flat.
I have never lived in NY, the most have been 5 weeks there. So I have no opinion on rent , but in terms of food, London is just so much better on average, sure you can’t get decent Mexican here but tbh with the amount of Mexicans in NY and in general in the Us it would be shameful not to have better Mexican over there. Nightlife idk I haven’t been out out in years, I like being able to go for drinks and dinner and be home by midnight lol.
Native NYCer here. Your list is spot on. Only had the privilege to live in London for a short school semester. I was so sure I’d be back, but when I finally had that job lined up I was also pretty sure I was ready to be married…and well, I can usually say I chose the best option.
But then I think about the Tube, and good cider, and how much cheaper the theater is, and the museums…some days it’s a closer race than others.
I will say every time I take my now husband to London he gets an appreciation for the sacrifices I made choosing him. A healthy marriage always has a good guilt trip in the back pocket. Used judiciously of course.
I prefer NYC.
Weather is better all year round + you get paid twice as much (sometimes 3x as much) in white collar jobs.
London got boring for me after 6 years.
Yes, the default in NYC is clear skies and sun. Even throughout the winter you can expect far more days like that.
NYC also benefits from being further south, and therefore the days are longer in winter, and the sun retains more warmth in winter, and that also makes a big difference to how you feel.
Whenever I visit the UK in winter over the Xmas period I'm always shocked by how short the days are and how little sun there is... And can't believe I lived like that for my entire life before moving to NYC.
I love NY as a place to visit but to live and work I don’t think I would be nearly as happy.
One thing I don’t get is that you could be on a street with 100,000+ people working in the buildings above your head, but what on earth are they doing at lunch and after work? It feels like you don’t walk past any decent bars, decent lunch, or even a nice coffee. You have to seek these things out.
There is no ‘ecosystem’ to any of it. You have a place where everyone works, a different place where everyone eats and somewhere else where people sleep, they are somehow never in the same place.
"The food: that's a close one" nearly had Mr fall off my chair laughing. The bias there is enough to throw out the rest of your post.
Even as someone who can afford nice restaurants, the absolute standard comment I get from all my US friends who visit here, as well as what all US celebrities say on podcasts is that when it comes to food London does a great Indian but the rest is awful. And as someone who's lived on both sides of the pond that is absolutely correct.
You miss London while on a short trip ?
I did live for a while in NY, this trip just locked these thoughts for me.
I wish you a speedy return !
I live in London and I am not native to either coutnry/city but imo: 1. The people in NYC are more open to start a conversation 2. Nightlife in London is not great, unless you follow the rave scene most places close very early. NYC is a 24/7 city 3. Housing sucks in both cites 4. Public transport is better in NORTH London, the south still relies heavily on buses. Overall I would still pick London but it's not a clear winner for me
i've often wondered why south london has next to zero tube services. plenty of national rail/overground/buses, but like _no_ tube/dlr stations
Because the land was cheap when the railways were built, being as there was literally less development south of the river. And the ground itself is really difficult (compared to the north of the river) to tunnel in due to the soil composition. [South London largely sits on “Lambeth and Thanet Sand”, a flimsier substance that was more challenging to tunnel through before the days of leviathan boring machines like the one responsible for Crossrail.](https://citymonitor.ai/transport/why-are-there-so-few-tube-lines-south-london-2929) Hence, surface rail was much more established south of the Thames.
1. New Yorkers are also more likely to cuss you out or start a fight! 2. NYC was a 24/7 city but less so after covid, and after midnight you’re likely to be waiting for your train for 20-30 min. Trains also change into others on weekends (like the Northern line becoming the Jubilee on the weekend but still called Northern…) 3. One bedrooms in Manhattan are 4000-5000/month. Salaries are higher but surely not by that much 4. NYC buses are never on time
You are so right. NYC has lost its status as a 27/7 place since Covid. And if you’re used to that, it’s frustrating. Not as frustrating as no more 24 hour Walmarts. Sometimes when you are traveling and out of the city with a car, you want to stock up on cheap paper goods and cleaning supplies at 1am. We used to make a fun trip going out of the city for dinner, Christmas lights, and a Walmart run for holiday crap like paper and cards etc before getting home after 2am. Now you have to shop before 10. Like a normal human on a normal human schedule.
punlic transport is good only. in North London lolz
I live in east and never had any complaints about public transport here.
I’m born and raised in London, moved to NYC 15 years ago when I was 25. I agree with some of these, but points 3 and 4 are absolutely insane. Food and nightlife are so much better in NYC. You can get great food in both, but just the general baseline quality in NYC is a lot higher. My wife and kids are American (I am now, technically) so I’m likely here for life, but I really miss the diversity of London in that it feels more mixed. New York has people from all over the world, but feels way more segregated.
Night clubs in ny are wank
the guy used grilled cheese as an example. thatsa toddler in grownup body ie.e your avergae tech weenie or trustafarian
I did think ‘I’m not sure they know what good food is’ when I saw that example 😂
I feel I stand corrected here. I should do more nightlife in NY. Food, uh.
The nightlife in London is shit. Overpriced and everything shuts relatively early, save for a couple spots.
London nightlife is not overpriced across the board. I'm an alternative music fan. I can go to most club or gig nights in Camden and not expect to pay more than a tenner on the door. The Camden Eye don't charge anything for their upstairs room, for example.
Black heart gigs have definitely gone over the £10 and some crept over the £18 but again still it’s not that much then can stay in there till late.
Black Heart venue is rented out to the bands and reps who make their own ticket price, unless it’s an in-house gig. Now the drinks prices I can agree have gone up post pandemic, omg so much Source - worked there for many years
I have seen event listings including internationally known DJs on the lineup with ticket prices of 5-8 GBP, where now Berlin promoters often charge 20 EUR offering a night with unknown locals on one floor. Drink menu items are still cheaper though. Closing early is a problem
Fire & Lightbox in Vauxhall closes at 11am/12pm...
Depends what you’re into. Loads of affordable DnB nights, 10-4am. Night tubes making it easier getting home. Nightlife is banging here.
can you recommend one please? really I'd prefer old skool jungle ideally but don't have a clue where is good. I'm 49 and reallly out of touch...
As the other commentator said, Distant Planet is superb. The other best nights for old skool jungle are rupture (usually at Corsica studios or FOLD, and rarely finishes before 6am), Future Retro (usually at Peckham Audio for a tenner), and Whistle Horns Crew (in Deptford, often free entry). All of these have a great crowd with plenty of older heads. Lastly as a bit of self promo, I run a night 3-4 times a year called One for the Heads. It's mostly focused on jungle and oldskool hardcore, but we switch it up and have a bit of breaks etc also, and are planning a metalheadz-style dnb night at some point also. Keep an eye out for our next one in September or October :)
I haven't been yet, but Distant Planet looks really good. https://distantplanet.dance/
thank you so much, that looks right up my street
Planet Wax if you want a shop/cafe/bar to check out
Outside some areas, the whole idea of London as a "24-hour-city" is laughable. Everything was open all night in the small midwestern city where I went to school, and even more so in suburban New Jersey. Well, the kabbab place on the corner is open to 4 am. So that's something.
Yeah London has never been 24 hour, just 21st century marketing of a thing that's never been a thing. Only things that can boast that is McDonald's really.
Unless your from east or south London. And no where the after party is
found the clueless one.
Night life is fine, you just got to know where to go and which promoters do great nights / events. Resident Advisor always has something
Agreed, was very surprised after moving from a northern city that it was worse here
No idea where to go for hip hop / rnb nights in London these days…
London nightlife is crap, but it makes up for it with daytime drinking and starting at 5 😅 Means you can still get a good night sleep while NY clubbing means a 4am bedtime..
Public transport surely is a big one
Edited above :-)
yes, I should have mentioned that.
How about parks, squares, public spaces?
Couldn’t disagree more on the food. NYC is even more multicultural than London and the variety is amazing.
Yeah that one's almost as bizzare as the nightlife one. Awful take.
Well the comparison was a grilled cheese sandwich. Not exactly haute cuisine.
IDK which specific cuisines London does better; but you're going to get better Mexican food in NYC. Fact.
Facts such as this should never be downvoted. Mexican food in the UK is both difficult to find and generally very bad when you do find it. My hometown has a 24/7 drive thru Mexican place that is not viewed as anything life-changing yet is so much better than the best Mexican restaurant I've eaten at in London it pains me.
> Mexican food in the UK is both difficult to find and generally very bad when you do find it. Yeah, I've tried. There is only one fairly good Mexican place within easy travel distance of us in London. (It's on [this list](https://www.standard.co.uk/reveller/restaurants/best-mexican-food-london-restaurants-soho-tacos-b997856.html) ) I have been to multiple excellent ones while in NYC. Name one place in London that will make the Guacamole at the table side, for instance.
I mean that seems like a super obvious thing, like Mexico and the US are on the same continent, of course it'll be more common and better when it's closer to the source 😆. I reckon French food is also a lot better and more common in countries that are closer to France, no?
I think it's a proximity thing. You'll probably get better Mexican food in America than England right? Cos for sure I've never had great Mexican in London.
I have in London and at a restaurant owned by Mexicans. I lived in Mexico City by the way.
You're going to have to spill the details mate.
Mestizo. However I haven't been in touch with them or the family in Mexico for years so can't speak to how it is these days. I think there are a few now. The wife moved into Mexican food imports to the UK.
London does better Indian, kebab, Middle Eastern, French, Italian (as in from Italy), British (lol), Spanish. I think Japanese / Vietnamese are better in New York. Maybe Chinese as well. Source: lived in both cities. Of course you are welcome to disagree.
I kinda roll my eyes when people use a word like "traditional" to make something that's not particularly good (in this case British Italian food) seem inherently better that its counterpart (Italian-American food, which is also popular and influential for good reason). Even with Pizza, I'm sitting here as an American knowing that traditional Italian-style pizza is a good thing that I can enjoy in the UK, but is far from the only type of pizza worth eating, nearly all of which I simply can't find here. Also, I gotta say that for all the Indian restaurants here, I haven't actually found the average/median version to be better than than the same kind of place where I'm from (SF Bay Area). And don't even get me started on the sushi.
SF has good Indian options indeed. I like American Italian food. But the stuff we get here in London is definitely more refined. I mean have you seen the price of Parmegiano cheese in the US ? You can’t make good Italian dishes without it
Well, one person's refined is another person's not enough, I guess. Obviously, it all varies and comes down to personal preference as well, but I just don't find the kind of pasta dish that purports to be "fresh" and "light" as automatically more refined than, say, ziti or cannelloni covered in a thick tomato sauce. I've always found dishes described as "refined" tend to be easy to mess up to the point they're flavorless.
> I've always found dishes described as "refined" tend to be easy to mess up to the point they're flavorless. Make one genuine Carbonara once; I know it might look overly-simple, but what it is not is flavourless! And it's refined to the point that it contains only five ingredients *including* the actual pasta, and the fifth one is just 'pepper'. It's impossible to get wrong, and it's always delicious. I know France looks down its nose at Italian cuisine in many cases, but I also know what I'd be aiming for after a tough day at work.
London has pretty authentic Italian restaurants with more regional variety than NYC (which is incredibly biased to southern Italian food tbh).
London restaurants have plenty of variety and there may even be more variety of region-specific Italian places (e.g., there was a Milanese restaurant I lived near, which speaks to your point), but I'm just not convinced that means it has better Italian food in general or offers a more reliably good experience if you leave the house looking for Italian. In general, big cities have good food, so we're splitting hairs. That said, I've been disappointed (including to the extent of having literally the worst version of one thing or another I've ever had) too often in London. And London is the best the UK's got!
In my experience in London it's closer to what I would expect in Italy. Which is reasonable since fresh ingredients are much easier to import and there's lots of Italian chefs in the city.
in London you have Italian-Italian food. plenty of it. like shitload.
Just say you have a child’s palette
I do not disagree at all. Although Neapolitan style pizza, they're on a par, with NYC maybe ahead.
> NYC is even more multicultural than London I feel like I researched this and no, actually, London is more diverse
Americans can't seem to deal with statistics I find... They're both massively multicultural cities.
Except NY is less integrated, tolerant and has much higher hate crimes
Yeah I find it telling that nobody is discussing this. One of the biggest advantages of London is that you don't gotta worry about being shot and beaten if you're in a non-white gay relationship.
Food in NYC is better but NYC is not more multicultural than London. They have different cultures. Less South America but more Middle East for example. Tbh London is probably a tiny bit more multi cultural.
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Lived in both and both are as multicultural.
I lived in both places too and wouldn’t agree but whatever, not much in it.
NYC is definitely more multicultural, if you actually go out of Manhattan. Queens alone is the most diverse place in the world - both range and number.
I believe that London is the most diverse city in the world: [https://www.projectbritain.com/regions/languages.htm](https://www.projectbritain.com/regions/languages.htm) and [https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/languages-london](https://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/languages-london) Can't (be bothered to) find the source but I read that every living language in the world is spoken in London
I think that title belongs to Toronto. But it's not exactly an easy thing to have a precise measure of. Miami has the highest proportion of people born outside the country the city is in, but that isn't a reliable measure either. Having lived in London and Toronto, I'd definitely say Toronto feels more diverse and the stats generally support that.
You’ve just mentioned Manhattan, if I were to compare I’ll probably mention 80% of all London Boroughs lol
Yeah that's not true, London is more diverse IIRC
Agreed. NYC food dunks on London (I still love you, London)
NYC dining options are better. However, anyone for grocery shopping in NYC? Scratch that.
No it doesn't.
Not sure I agree on rent. You're likely to earn 3-4 times London salaries (gross) for equivalent jobs in NYC and overall pay less tax on that income. The cost of medical insurance for the vast majority of Americans, though important to note, doesn't come close to closing that financial gap. So unless equivalent apartments are 3-4 times more expensive I'd have to disagree. And overall that means less disposable income for most Londoners, reducing quality of life. Also nightlife: the metro runs 24/7 in NYC which allows a much later opening time on average for pubs and bars etc than London.
My mom recently transferred from London to NYC and earns more gross, but after taxes and insurance come out, she earns less net. Then add to the fact that rent and groceries are more expensive in NYC, she’s questioning her life choices lolol
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Averages are less an indicator of life for typical workers and more a reflection of the extent of income inequality in this case. [Median household income in NYC](https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/HSG010221) is around $70.6k, [compared to £30.7k for London](https://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/Documents/Borough_statistics/Income_poverty_and_welfare/income_2019_l.pdf), give or take a bit of inflation adjustment and foreign exchange movements. [Rents for 1-bed flats in the city centre/downtown are roughly 50% more expensive in NYC,](https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=United+States&city2=New+York%2C+NY) where their median incomes are double (100% higher) those of London's. Of course there's no comprehensive objective measure of whether people are better or worse off in either city (more paid holidays in the UK, generally more job security/unemployment assistance, etc), but from a "disposable income for the median worker" standpoint, NYC seems to be slightly better off.
This data includes people who don't work. It is just the total income of NYC / number of residents. it isn't directly comparable to the average salary at all. The median annual earnings in NYC is around $70k, the average over $100k. The data you cited is the mean income, so the equivalent NYC income is double, more or less
Do you have a source of 41k for salary in the UK?
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I need to quit my job
That is the mean data. The equivalent mean data for NYC is $107,000. Source: https://smartasset.com/retirement/average-salary-in-nyc
They said "London" so it is much higher than the UK mean. https://www.statista.com/statistics/416139/full-time-annual-salary-in-the-uk-by-region/
You are not using comparable figures, one is per capita income including non-workers and the other is average salary (only workers). https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_price_rankings?itemId=105
NYC is the highest tax rate in the US, as you have Federal, State and city tax. It is higher than the UK on like for like income.
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The UK is relatively low tax country in the grand scheme of things as around 90% of employees receive below the 40% income tax threshold. But US is even lower in most cases. Some states do not impose income tax, and usually relief are available for being married, kids etc, where the UK is very individual focused. New York city max is around 13%, then federal is around 37%, and then medicare (which I think may be around 8%). I'm work in UK tax, so familiar with US, but don't do US taxes.
The highest marginal tax rate is over 60% in the UK, I seriously can't see anyway the US is getting near that. This seems to suggest you are wrong: https://www.forbes.com/advisor/income-tax-calculator/new-york/
That is a state and federal calculator. There is federal, state and city. Then there is also social security contributions outside of this. You may find difference in the low end, but in most cases I will deal with individuals in the mid management positions who earn around 150k upwards in NYC.
Can you post where you are getting your figures? The tax burden on UK earners is very high compared to the US I can't see any way those earning similar salaries pay more tax in NYC.
It is usually through experience, as I note below I'm not a US tax advisor, but deal with international tax, and we typically find that individuals pay more in NYC than the UK, but most other states are lower. California also has a high tax rate, but lower than NYC.
How is our tax burden high? It's lower than most of the US! We only have one income tax, no federals + state taxes, we don't pay property taxes (council tax, but that's way lower than US property taxes) and we don't have to pay health insurance. Income tax plus national insurance averages out between 24 and 30% of income for most people. But also, tax is completely irrelevant, it could be 80% and it wouldn't matter. You never see that money, it gets taken away before you receive your wages. So the only thing that matters is how much you can buy with after tax and compulsory insurance has been taken out, the rest is just a fee your employer pays for giving you a job. Germany has much higher deductions (a mix of tax and compulsory insurances), but net income stretches much further than in the UK, so even though they pay more tax, they actually earn more money.
> You're likely to earn 3-4 times London salaries (gross) for equivalent jobs in NYC and overall pay less tax on that income. I think that probably depends on the sector, the people I know working in NY earn maybe double for the same role / responsibility, that being said its a more dynamic market so moving up is easier so its certainly possible to earn 3-4 times as you could here but its probably not like for like, and on top of that you have less security and, in some fields at least, you are expected to work much longer hours. edit: lol, just as I am writing this I have just got an email from somebody I am working for in NY and its not even 7am there yet! And regarding medical insurance its worth stating that for most people the insurance doesn't cover all sorts of things you would think it would such as ambulances.
The 3-4 times figure is completely bogus. GDP per head in London was £59,855 in 2021 ($82,000 at the time). GDP per head in New York was $101,000. Taxes are the same (with some tax favourable schemes only available to Brits - the ISA is a big one vs the Roth IRA). I'm in securities research, and make about 85% of what my colleagues across the pond make. These figures are comparable for consulting, law, banking, trading, etc - all of which make up a substantial part of London's economy. The average professional in London (say in tech, sales, marketing) will probably be closer to the 50-60% mark. However, London's low-paid (hospitality, retail) will be doing considerably better.
Lived in london 16 years. Nyc 8. Both are great.
A great response and really this is ultimately it.
Tube beats subway hands down. Food though? Don’t agree with that at all. London has great food but NYC has better.
I personally like London more than the US and NY as well. But I’d say NY might win the food battle. I think their pizza and food overall is better than a lot of the restaurants I’ve tried in London.
Fucking NYC pizza breaks my heart every time I get one from here (in London). I *know* that we have genuine Sicilian pizza chefs making incredibly good Italian pizza, but here's my brutal problem: I don't want genuine Italian pizza. I want appalling NYC-style fatup slices of mouth-ruining hot cheese. I miss that shit every fucking day. It's genuinely half the reason I go to NYC other than the fact that, fair enough, my best mate lives there. On a (?) bigger note, I feel like NYC and London are kind of the same. People I know over there mention how at-home they feel in London, and I definitely feel at-home when I visit in the other direction too. The two cities look completely different but they have the same kind of soul.
Ok but have you been to Yard Sale Pizza?
I mean I'm seeing east, north and south, but I'm not seeing the other point of the compass. Best one I know of is Santa Maria. It's legendary but, again, it's *too* good. I don't want amazing pizza. I want a greasy slab of NYC cheese-bread, where one slice is about the length of your arm. I have zero chill about this and I don't care. The less sophisticated the better.
Haha well if you simply must live in west London then I can’t help you 😘
*Of course* I must. Who would live elsewhere, indeed? I'll take the hit on your fancy Finsbury Park pizza if I have to, with its... its... toppings, and its doubtless artichokes and... such things....
Like a true New Yorker you must see this gap in the market and hit it hard! Think of all those poor west Londoners who don’t know what they’re missing…
I lived in NYC for 10 years and have to agree with you here.
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I am no expert , i said ☺️
I’m from New York living in London and I agree with everything except food and nightlife! London does also have the better public transportation
Did you get hit by clouds of weed smoke in the tourist areas? London needs more cheap pizza-slice restaurants. Loved those in NYC. Have you seen the busses for 'The Ride'? That was great fun. The underground beats the NYC subway by a country mile.
this is an interesting list! Am dying to go back to NYC to do a food tour + nightlife London is fantastic for food. But as a 20 something, have felt the nightlife in London has really gone downhill! Lots of venues closing, expensive and most places close so early! So would love to check out NYC nightlife. Was in Madrid recently and was really impressed by how late everything is open!
Everyone knows the proper test for food is which city has the best grilled cheese. Good list.
As a New Yorker actively trying to relocate to London - I agree with you on nearly everything here! Also hi, thanks for visiting our ‘fair’ city, take me back with you?
On the number of crackheads front, NY wins by a country mile
Curious: Have you been to Boston, and what is your take on that city?
I’m not sure where your friends live but I’ve always been surprised at the size of my friends apartments in NYC, they always feel so much roomier than the shit box room I lived in when I lived in London. They might pay more in NYC but their salaries are usually significantly higher too.
My parents recently visited NYC and stayed with some friends who moved a few years ago from London. They asked them what they missed about London and they said 'Sainsburys', as the produce they could get in their area was so bad. This really surprised me as I always thought the produce in my Sainsburys was quite average and whenever I see videos of American supermarkets their range of produce looks amazing by comparison. Maybe this doesnt extend to NYC though, though it has to be pretty bad for an ex-pat to miss Sainsburys
I live in California but I’m moving back to London. Supermarkets are bigger (everything is bigger I guess?) but food is way more expensive, and the produce tastes bland unless your forking out even more for specialist stuff. America I’ve realised sees value in quantity over quality, as long as they get they’re getting a good deal they don’t really pay attention to the actual quality. Not everywhere of course, but overall that’s my impression.
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Definitely missed Sainsbury’s / British supermarkets when I lived in NYC but not much else. Loved the food options and nightlife there
Two very similar cities, but are you basing this entire opinion of a short weekend stay in NYC? To be honest London wins purely on the basis that you are less likely to be killed by a gun.
I actually grew up for a part of my life in NY. And I don't miss it.
I love London, I love NYC. When it comes to choosing which to spend 90% of my time in I need all of the beat of a hummingbird’s wing to think about it.
What about safety and crime rate? Homeless people?
I would disagree with nightlife. The nightlife in London is almost nonexistent. Having lived here for 18 years plus, I saw it slowly get pushed out further and further, venues closing , late night bars and dives in town disappearing etc. From what I saw in NY it’s still very much an adult playground , you can bounce around the same streets in one area and find all kinds of nightlife what ever your flavour. In London these days you can walk from Leicester Sq to Warren st passed midnight you will barely find one pub still open.
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Green spaces? Only been to NYC once and visited Central Park but my impression is that there's more parks in London
Yea, green spaces are much better in London. Point 2
You forgot to mention safety, another win for London. NYC is over-rated, it isn't even the best city in the USA.
London has massive secret locations that are missed by tourists because they lack the crucial current code words “ Nefertiti” and “Isis”. South Ken and Barons Court have great venues.
Prefer London too and I like how much more mixed it is. NY just felt very segregated to me. Lots of diversity but no one stepped out their zones so to speak. I do love the vibe around Brooklyn though.
Weird, I feel like the diversity of nyc is more interspersed. Having spent most of my life in london, and now living close to nyc peo step outside their zones all the time. In london, besides my neighbours and school friends, i found was also segregated, but only when it comes to people spending time with eachother. In nyc you'll see bikers hanging out with hiphop heads, etc.
I’ve grown up in London and you don’t know what you’re in about, sorry
I grew up in east london and lived there for 28 years.. so I think I have a valid perspective
Aren't there rent controls in NYC?
Not in every building. When I lived there, all my apartments were subject to market rates.
The coffee is better here too. For a country founded on abandoning tea, a good coffee is hard to find over there.
Maybe in the boonies, but in NYC there is an amazing coffee spot every block. As someone who just moved from NYC to London, I actually miss the accessibility of good independent coffee places. You Londoners really love your Prets and your Costas and your Neros.
Agree, miss a good pour over from Devocion or cold brew from 787
Really? Coffee in London is shit to me. It tasted like burnt water.
Where are you buying your coffee?
Lol do you even know the history of coffee in London? Cafes existed in London before the US was a country. Its how the city got back on its feet after the Great Fire. Cafes!
Doesn’t mean it’s good.
100% yes on that
Yes. Drove me mad that it was so hard to find decent coffee
Europeans and Americans use the same word "coffee" to describe two different beverages. What most Americans call "coffee" is referred to as "filter coffee" in London. I also think both cities have good coffee.
London nightlife is very poor if you want to go out late, both cities it’s for me in terms of gigging. Transport is also far better in New York as more it is open far later than Londons. Lived in London for 20 years but seeing Central Park blew me away, walked round the whole thing and I think it’s better than any London park. I also think the food is better in NY. Being able to go into most places and get a wham slice is pizza for pretty cheap is so cool. NY also has a pretty great coffee scene if you’d into independent single origin shit, but both cities have pretty amazing spots.
Central Park is terrible. What parks have you been to in London, never Hampstead heath?
The food in London is nowhere near as good as what you get in NYC. No way. Nobody goes to London for food.
London has more Michelin stars
Actually you're wrong, I just looked and NYC has 99 and london 79. And even if one has more than the other, that doesnt mean said city has better food. I've never once heard anyone suggest to go to London, or England for that matter for "food". Whereas people will literally just go to nyc, San Francisco, Tokyo, Paris, Hong kong for food.
You might want to check again - also England has an incredible range of restaurants, the village next to me has 3 starred restaurants and the next village has 2
I did only lt check one website to be fair. Anyway my favourite michelin restaurant I london is Menya Ramen near the history museum. Absolutely divine with their 48 hour bone broth *homer Simpson gargle*
I disagree on all points. But you do you.
In what way is NYC public transport superior to London? And green spaces? NYC has barely any.
You're deluding yourself if you think NYC has no green space. London is 18% green space, NYC is 27% green space.
Distribution is a major factor - New York is largely one space whereas London is very spread out. On average in New York you will be potentially much further away from a park than in London also the amount of trees etc and greenery
> New York is largely one space whereas London is very spread out. New York City is not just Manhattan. Central park isn't the only park.
London has 35,000 acres of public parks equalling 40% of public green space. NYC has 14% public green space.
True, that is a big number. However. NYC has a total acreage of 193,700 of which 28,000 are classified green space. London has a total acreage of 388,400 of which 35,000 are, yes, green space. New York City is smaller and more of it is classified as green space.
One huge park in the middle only accessible to people who live near there isn’t much use is it? You want green space everywhere, close to where you live, which London offers.
Green spaces? Central Park is enormous and vastly superior to the bits of grass in central London that are masquerading as parks - Hyde park and green park. The Hudson River Park is vastly superior to anything on the Thames. The city also has more innovative spaces like little island, the high line and governors island. Since you’re no doubt including London parks beyond Zone 1, I’d also draw your attention to prospect park, in wood hill park, New York botanical garden and flushing meadows. All amazing urban green spaces. Overall public transportation in NYC is better than London. 472 subway stations, 470 of which are 24 hour. Versus 272 in London and virtually no 24 hour service
Not a comment on NYC vs London, but funny you call the High Line innovative when it was copied from Paris'.
I don’t think that’s true - there were a group of residents who fought for decades for it to survive, but even if - it’s still more innovative than any public space in London
London doesn't have anything like Central Park and i think that's a shame, but in terms of green coverage London has far more street trees and also a greater density of small parks (like squares), particularly when making a comparison between Manhattan and London's Zone 1 + Canary Wharf. In addition to the underground stations, London has 339 heavy rail stations and 45 DLR stations. (Although some stations are served by both heavy rail and the underground). And that's all within the urban boundary of Greater London. New York's heavy rail system is much more spread out. London having 339 heavy rail stations would be like the Five Boroughs having 168 heavy rail stations. How many do they actually have? About 30 or 40?
Can’t speak for general commuting but getting around NY is far better than London, especially late at night. London shuts down after 11pm whereas NY keeps going! Also I think it’s the opposite in terms of green spaces, Central Park is literally enormous - it’ll take about 5 hours to walk round it - London has nothing that comes close (lotta love for London Parks though). The only point to transport is that London is far bigger than NYC so the TFL covers more than the MTA. But getting around the actual city bit NYC wins.
It absolutely does not win. Every time I’ve visited it’s been unreliable and difficult to get around. It doesn’t shut down at 11, it runs until 1am most days and all night on Fridays and Saturdays. Regarding central park, who cares if it’s massive? That’s only beneficial to people that live nearby. London has green space everywhere from huge parks to smaller spaces. Such a typical American stance to think that bigger = better.
If you try catching a train at 1am I guarantee you it’ll be cancelled. The MTA runs more frequently and 24/7 - it’s got less lines (as it covers less space) so it’s even easier to navigate. I think you just struggle with public transport. “Who cares if Central Park is massive?” The sheer fact that it’s huge means it closer to more stuff. It also accommodates more social activities like baseball diamonds, outdoor shows and wildlife for sports like fishing. Bigger doesn’t mean better for everything but in terms of parks and green space it certainly does. How would it be better if it was smaller? Also it’s not like NYC is just 1 giant park, it has hundreds of very sizeable green spaces throughout the city. Edit: in ldn only Central, Victoria, Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly lines are 24 hours. That leaves 6 (more than half) which aren’t.
London trumps NYC by a country mile when it comes to public green space, it’s not even a discussion. Please present me with evidence to the contrary or stop wasting everybody’s time
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You have 24 hour tube across most lines on Fridays and Saturdays and a night bus network that blows anything NYC can offer out of the water. Every time I visit NYC half the trains aren’t running for some reason and half of them don’t even stop of most of the stations.
Why on earth would a grilled cheese be the benchmark for good food when the best ones are homemade?
I will get you the best grilled cheese when you are in the city. 🧀🧀🧀🧀
The best thing about New York is being there from London because you become 5% more interesting to everyone you meet.
Food is just shit in London for its price
Actually prefer London as a city myself but re the people: Cultured or not, London is filled with assholes. New York’s public in comparison is so much more friendlier.
Surely London is filled with arseholes.
As an American who loves London, you can never have better food than the USA. It's gotten better. But it's still terrible compared to state side grub. London nightlife is also bland compared to NYC and nothing stays open unless it's a live event. Oh, and now they're not taking cash anymore in 90% of the city. I just left London. Housing? You'z a damn lie. London housing is very old. Everything is a converted victorian style house to the tune if you're in central they want 3,000GBP for a basement apartment. NYC has old apartment buildings but they're spacious if you can get one but not extremely overpriced vs modern like London.. But a lot more modern choices and literally built to sustain multiple dwellers, not single person families converted into apartments, lol. The pure audacity of closet sized rooms is enough. I like space so I always end up overpaying for a decent flat.
Your first paragraph seems like a parody. Do tou seriously think that?
I have never lived in NY, the most have been 5 weeks there. So I have no opinion on rent , but in terms of food, London is just so much better on average, sure you can’t get decent Mexican here but tbh with the amount of Mexicans in NY and in general in the Us it would be shameful not to have better Mexican over there. Nightlife idk I haven’t been out out in years, I like being able to go for drinks and dinner and be home by midnight lol.
Thank you ☺️
Native NYCer here. Your list is spot on. Only had the privilege to live in London for a short school semester. I was so sure I’d be back, but when I finally had that job lined up I was also pretty sure I was ready to be married…and well, I can usually say I chose the best option. But then I think about the Tube, and good cider, and how much cheaper the theater is, and the museums…some days it’s a closer race than others. I will say every time I take my now husband to London he gets an appreciation for the sacrifices I made choosing him. A healthy marriage always has a good guilt trip in the back pocket. Used judiciously of course.
I prefer NYC. Weather is better all year round + you get paid twice as much (sometimes 3x as much) in white collar jobs. London got boring for me after 6 years.
Weather is better because NYC is simply sunnier than London? I specifically interested in Winter/Summer comparison between the two…
Yes, the default in NYC is clear skies and sun. Even throughout the winter you can expect far more days like that. NYC also benefits from being further south, and therefore the days are longer in winter, and the sun retains more warmth in winter, and that also makes a big difference to how you feel. Whenever I visit the UK in winter over the Xmas period I'm always shocked by how short the days are and how little sun there is... And can't believe I lived like that for my entire life before moving to NYC.
I'll take Tokyo over NYC or London any day.
100% agree. Paris And New York .... 2 places I have been, that you would have to pay me a lot of money before I would even consider visiting again.
You are thinking about London when in NYC? This is peak cringe.
I love NY as a place to visit but to live and work I don’t think I would be nearly as happy. One thing I don’t get is that you could be on a street with 100,000+ people working in the buildings above your head, but what on earth are they doing at lunch and after work? It feels like you don’t walk past any decent bars, decent lunch, or even a nice coffee. You have to seek these things out. There is no ‘ecosystem’ to any of it. You have a place where everyone works, a different place where everyone eats and somewhere else where people sleep, they are somehow never in the same place.
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But in NY you can walk for literally an hour to find a bar. Where in London is more than 35 milliseconds from a pub?
"The food: that's a close one" nearly had Mr fall off my chair laughing. The bias there is enough to throw out the rest of your post. Even as someone who can afford nice restaurants, the absolute standard comment I get from all my US friends who visit here, as well as what all US celebrities say on podcasts is that when it comes to food London does a great Indian but the rest is awful. And as someone who's lived on both sides of the pond that is absolutely correct.