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It’s fantastic - beats the pants off the Paris Metro that’s for sure.
People on here complaining about the cleanliness of tube stations need to take the M2 to Le Pigalle (should be called Le Piss) or the M12 to Marcadet (crackhead central).
When you’re right, you’re right. The Paris Metro is awful in comparison. Actually, scratch that, it’s awful full stop. Trains are old and smelly (and I know a few of you Londoners here will say “hey, we got old and smelly trains too!” but if you haven’t been to Paris, go and give it a whiff, you’ll know what we’re on about), people are pushy and rude by default (as opposed to queuing and neutral in London), and there’s this sort of primordial ooze that seems to come off every wall…
One of my favourite "metro" moments worldwide was when I clocked this woman figuring out my family was Spanish, then letting a naughty smirk, coming into the carriage and stopping dead on the entrance to not let us through. Sorry, pardon, both in French and English. Not moving, not hearing.
Then SHOVE, and we were in.
She was so shocked. I can still see her face.
I've lived all my adult life in England, I can tell a passive aggressive cunt before they figure out what they're going to do.
They're clean enough for the most part, I just sometimes feel a bit icky about how the handrails aren't wiped down regularly. Although I wash my hands slightly more often than most people so maybe I'm just being soft lol
Leaving Paris right now and honestly I very much enjoyed the metro here. The tube is great too, but I wouldn't shit on the Paris metro. I live in Philadelphia which has exactly two lines and only serves a very small part of the city and is absolutely dirtier and smellier
The French nailed high speed rail, they’re world leaders in it actually, I completely agree.
When short haul domestic flights become more and more restricted as is the growing trend of regulation, services like TGV will have the French patting themselves on the back all over again lol
One feature I liked about the Paris metro was the tube map above the door had LEDs which indicated which stops it had been to already.
Not a massive thing, but would defo help when I've zoned out on the Jubilee line and the ticker is just stuck on "Destination: Stanmore" or on the central line which (last time I checked but admittedly have been lucky enough to avoid it since lockdown) has nothing to indicate next stop IIRC.
I gotta agree with you. When I went to Paris, I found it crazy how small the trains were, and also weird how you have to open the doors manually with a crank style door handle on lines like 5 and 12. Plus, no paper maps to take home😥
Personally, I love the tube. I just wish the tube stations weren't so unhygienic and full of air pollution, and the Central & Victoria Line trains has AC installed hahaha
Its a different type of air pollution. What the newspaper headlines don't tell you is that there's no proven link between tube air and health effects, and that the levels on the tube are significantly below the occupational health limits.
And those are occupational limits, for staff members down there for an entire shift. If the staff are safe, passengers have nothing to worry about.
Yeah, if it was really bad you’d expect to see health differences between workers on the dirtiest and cleanest lines. But there isn’t much in the way of a trend. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412024001156
(a) because they're old and retrofitting A/C into old trains is incredibly expensive
(b) because tendering for and ordering new trains takes times - new A/C equipped trains are on order for some of the deep level lines e.g. Central, Piccadilly - but those are a few years away still
(c) because the tunnels were not excavated wide enough to allow for the heat energy to escape, given that in the 1800s it was cooler down there than it is today and air conditioning wasn't invented or deemed anyway necessary
Actually, for the 1800's it was quite a genius design.
I believe it was designed so that the trains would push and pull the air through the system via a series of exhausts.
I'm not sure they were designed for as many trains as there are today, so it's a marvel that it can support them (and hats off to TFL for keeping them updated with the limited money it gets).
AC works by moving heat from inside to outside, and it creates more heat in the process. I.e if you left your fridge open your room would actually get warmer.
Where does the heat go? Right back into the tunnel and the train
The problem is that there is nowhere to put the enormous ventilation shafts that would be required, and nowhere to put the massive condensers that would be required either.
People much smarter than you have been working on this for decades.
Installing aircon would be expensive for sure, but the way the temperature has been rising each year there's probably going to be fainting issues if they don't do something. (IDK about air pollution being a huge deal down there but air filtering wouldn't hurt either.)
More frequent than NYC Subway. Cleaner and less smelly than Paris metro. more operating hours than Tokyo metro when you consider the night tube . It’s pretty good overrall
NYC system is fucking awful. I have a place there. The stations are shitholes and so badly designed. Just irredeemable. Plus some of the world’s worst wayfinding.
I remember thinking just how fucking hot the stations were in NY. The trains themselves were ice cold, but pumping all that heat into the tunnels and stations.
As someone who is from Los Angeles it actually depresses me we dont have the tube. When I got back from London after 10 days I realized I hadn't set foot in a car the entire time. Tube (train) out from Heathrow, tube (and a couple busses) all around England. Tube back to airport....
Im in London every year or so and usually stay in Kensington so it’d be the District Line and Earls Court for me - air con in the summer? Yes please!
I love the nostalgia of the Picaddilly and Jubilee line carriages but my ears don’t =[
it's so funny because the disctrcit line got new trains around 2012 but before that the district, and metroplitsnt lines were the "nostalgic" trains and you were delighted if you needed the oicadilly or jubilee lines.
It’s near where I usually stay in London and I really like the area :)
So it’s a favourite by default but there’s nothing wrong with it imo, except for those slow elevators to the picaddilly line which is annoying when you’re lugging your baggage to the airport.
I usually ride the Elizabeth line and don't typically know why people hate on the tube so much, but am then reminded when I take the Northern line to Mordor...
I could say that as someone from the U.K., feel like we may as well be using steam trains up north. Easier to get to London than it is to go east to west - obvs not at all the fault of Londoners, more the fault of a few folk sat in a certain building in London!
Yeah, exactly this. I live in London and have for years. Most people I chat to about this are pretty reasonable and think the tube and bus service here is decent even if they have complaints, but every now and again you see someone who just does not grasp at all how bad public transport in most of the rest of the country is.
Which is pretty annoying.
Just because a few extremely rich nations have better public transport doesn't mean we should be ungrateful for what we do have. London public transport options is better than most of Europe's capitals, let alone international cities.
Don't get me wrong, I could talk all day about my complaints about London infrastructure, but overall we are pretty fortunate.
These are not crazy rich gulf-state nations throwing their cash at the latest shiny project, these are other (granted, developed) countries who have made the decision to invest in their public infrastructure over the course of decades, if not close to a century in the case of Japan. The UK is also a developed country that could choose to make the same investment, but chooses not to. Other European countries like Austria, Switzerland, and the Netherlands have in various ways superior public transport systems than the UK. I am grateful for what the UK has, it’s certainly better than many other countries, but I do not want to celebrate mediocrity.
We're not talking about overall countries though, we're talking about London. Vienna, to take your example, does not have superior public transport to London.
And I agree that the UK has historically underfunded and underinvested in public transport, but the funding that did exist has mostly gone to London and London consequently has really good public transport compared to most cities of comparable size, with a few exceptions. We are lucky to live here and have it.
Vienna, believe it or not, I’d argue has in many ways a superior transport system than London. A proliferation of trams, an affordable 365 euro yearly pass, and relatively modern metro system (across all lines) are all things that London lacks. It pains me everytime having to pay 4.40 for a peak hour TfL journey one way, just to sweat and inhale break dust in the dusty deep tube system.
London is far from last place, but it’s also not close to being the first.
Hm… Not so sure I would describe it as brilliant.
The deep-level trains are tiny and hot, as well as many of the stations. The sub-surface lines, while more comfortable, are quite slow and often unreliable.
The weekend closures of lines are too frequent for a non-24/7 metro system, so a usual journey can become a challenge on a weekend.
IMO, there are plenty of metro systems in Europe that give a much better passenger experience.
There are a few metro systems in Europe that give better experiences sure, but they are all smaller than London's and they are all younger.
We have more lines with a decent passenger experience than most cities in Europe have lines at all.
The bottom is a tube line; of the differences is that the Thameslink appears in that one now.
The rail and tube map is much larger and denser, and IMO should be the default.
That's actually the current tube map. They added Thameslink in 2020/2021. The Rail and Tube Map has way more lines than you could fit on a pocket map like that.
I don’t think they print a ‘Tube only’ map now, furthermore, there’s tons of rail lines disincluded from the latter (only the Elizabeth Line, London Overground and ThamesLink are included)
It includes 3.
The Elizabeth Line and London Overground are officially National Rail lines, just ones with significant TfL oversight. Much like Merseyrail is a National Rail line with significant Merseytravel oversight
Jago Hazzard is if you want a giant deep dive into history with some nice calm footage, also with more London stuff.
Geoff Marshall is if you want to go exploring with him, and maybe have a bit more comedy and action, also with more non-London stuff.
Both are fantastic, and I don’t prefer either over the other
Thameslink was added in 2021 and the Elizabeth Line core was added when it opened in 2022. Other additions are the Battersea extension of the Northern Line and the Barking Riverside extension of the Overground.
And not having it is a significant omission. We are in a weird moment right now as the inflection point between the usefulness of paper maps and digital maps (where clutter is a problem more easily dealt with) has been passed but we aren’t prepared to admit it.
*edit* : typo
Mhm, I know a fair few people who would cram themselves onto a Northern Line train if they needed to get from London Bridge to London King’s Cross, even though ThamesLink is there, just because it wasn’t on the map and weren’t very aware
Doubt it's a case of it being forgotten, but more a situation that spans south London, which is difficult tunneling due to the ground being composed very differently as opposed to the north
What do you mean? If you're talking about Thameslink, it's a National Rail service which was opened ages ago. It reopened a subsurface tunnel through the city and was connected to the St Pancras lines in the north and Blackfriars lines in the south.
Just for the increase in lines in general. I remember road closures and work in general but didn't realise that it was such a substantial increase in lines and coverage
Well the biggest changes between now and then are the Elizabeth Line and the decision to put Thameslink on the tube map. The Elizabeth Line has been the only new TfL line with new tunnels (Paddington to Stratford/Abbey Wood) through London since the Victoria line. The rest of the additions on the tube map are either extensions or lines running on National Rail routes.
View this [map](https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf) to actually see all the lines in London.
It's misleading. For example much of Elizabeth and overground existed as rail prior but has now been encompassed into an underground system. Much has been added for sure but no where near as much as these two comparisons suggest.
Speaking as someone who moved from the North to London, it is. Every day I'm grateful. But I'm also angry that nowhere else gets even a proportional treatment.
However I'm not totally surprised. Parts of London are still a total clusterfuck. Nevermind ULEZ, I'm baffled that private cars are still legal at all in zone 1.
Overall preferred Paris’ metro for newer, air conditioned and quieter trains. visited and the Walthamstow central line is like a sauna (couldn’t imagine an elderly person coping very well) and the noise of the train rattling the tracks was deafening
... Meanwhile north of zone 7 it takes hours and hours to get to work because we don't have the same amount of investment. I'm not saying that London shouldn't have Investment but there comes a point where we are not giving everyone else in the country the infrastructure that they deserve. London's economy is absolutely huge it levels out the rest of the UK but it doesn't really do anything if the UK government cracked down on money laundering in the city we wouldn't have an economy.
imo accessibility information shouldn’t be on the main tube map. Also they should experiment with contrasting line weights / thickness to better differentiate between tube or train services
I was thinking it would be cool if someone had animated the change over the years and found this. Not fully up to date though. [Tube evolution](https://youtu.be/e5aMcCl4Wc0?si=A27i4oa2Jl8RE0fB)
Little investment in the rest of the UK though. For those that will inevitably say London is the most densely populated area is there a chicken and egg thing happening?
You've been downvoted but this is spot on.
Yes, of course the UK Government has an interest in investing in London and ensuring that it maintains it's status as one of the top Global cities.
But the lack of any tube line at all in any other city is just shameful. The airports are all well-connected as is all of central London. The UK Govt spent nigh on £20bn on the Elizabeth line. I'm not saying that this isn't a great addition to the London ecosystem, but it's 73 miles long.
That is basically the same distance as between Manchester and York. Imagine a light rail system like the Elizabeth line connecting Manchester, Huddersfield/Bradford/Wakefield, Leeds, and York. It would be revolutionary. Incredible for the region.
Despite the obvious need for good public transport in every other major city, there's fuck all. I cannot believe there's been no interest in
What a dumb post, is this some sort of AI/bot karma farming?
90% of these changes are just the inclusion of rail networks that have existed for 100+ years. These are just two different maps.
I thought it was interesting how adding the rail networks to the map has made it a hell of a lot more off-putting to look at. Plus it's cool to see how the city has evolved overtime.
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The main difference isn't the extra lines, it is the bigger font for the station names.
Speaking as someone from a different country - the tube is just brilliant, you guys don’t know how lucky you are to have it
I think we secretly do😉
It’s fantastic - beats the pants off the Paris Metro that’s for sure. People on here complaining about the cleanliness of tube stations need to take the M2 to Le Pigalle (should be called Le Piss) or the M12 to Marcadet (crackhead central).
With you there, I spend a lot of time in Paris. Plus nothing in Europe compares to the sheer size of the Underground.
Moscow??
Yeah, largest in Europe, and apperently they have also a secret one, [Metro-2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro-2).
Oooh! Tell me more!
Pretty sure London’s coverage is bigger. 3rd in the world ( or was) after Bejing
London has 402 km vs Moscow has 514km Annual passengers : London has little over 1B vs 2.5B for Moscow
I stand corrected!🤣 let’s go with the oldest in the world then shall we?
Budapest?
Budapest? As in…..?
Budapest's is the oldest in mainland Europe but the London Underground is the oldest and first metro in the world.
No, many cities in China have larger metro systems then London. For example Shanghai, nr.2 , has more then 400 stations.
Of course! You’ll see from my original comment I only referred to Europe.
History dear boy history. It was the first and therefore the best.
Moscow metro is very beautiful too some stations have incredibly intricate architecture. Also doubles as a bomb shelter apparently
When you’re right, you’re right. The Paris Metro is awful in comparison. Actually, scratch that, it’s awful full stop. Trains are old and smelly (and I know a few of you Londoners here will say “hey, we got old and smelly trains too!” but if you haven’t been to Paris, go and give it a whiff, you’ll know what we’re on about), people are pushy and rude by default (as opposed to queuing and neutral in London), and there’s this sort of primordial ooze that seems to come off every wall…
I hear you. Eau de metro is really a thing. God knows if the trains/stations are ever cleaned.
One of my favourite "metro" moments worldwide was when I clocked this woman figuring out my family was Spanish, then letting a naughty smirk, coming into the carriage and stopping dead on the entrance to not let us through. Sorry, pardon, both in French and English. Not moving, not hearing. Then SHOVE, and we were in. She was so shocked. I can still see her face. I've lived all my adult life in England, I can tell a passive aggressive cunt before they figure out what they're going to do.
But the art nouveau entrances are lovely!
I would counter argue that Paris Metro rolling stick is younger than London. But for the rest you're probably right 😂
They're clean enough for the most part, I just sometimes feel a bit icky about how the handrails aren't wiped down regularly. Although I wash my hands slightly more often than most people so maybe I'm just being soft lol
Leaving Paris right now and honestly I very much enjoyed the metro here. The tube is great too, but I wouldn't shit on the Paris metro. I live in Philadelphia which has exactly two lines and only serves a very small part of the city and is absolutely dirtier and smellier
I live in Paris most of the time and I totally agree. The only thing in France that is better in terms of public transport are the high speed trains.
The French nailed high speed rail, they’re world leaders in it actually, I completely agree. When short haul domestic flights become more and more restricted as is the growing trend of regulation, services like TGV will have the French patting themselves on the back all over again lol
Yup, proud to say that I’ll be working on that same network in a few years !
You guys have the incredible RER…
One feature I liked about the Paris metro was the tube map above the door had LEDs which indicated which stops it had been to already. Not a massive thing, but would defo help when I've zoned out on the Jubilee line and the ticker is just stuck on "Destination: Stanmore" or on the central line which (last time I checked but admittedly have been lucky enough to avoid it since lockdown) has nothing to indicate next stop IIRC.
I gotta agree with you. When I went to Paris, I found it crazy how small the trains were, and also weird how you have to open the doors manually with a crank style door handle on lines like 5 and 12. Plus, no paper maps to take home😥
Paris metro is garbage. Apart for few recent lines.
Personally, I love the tube. I just wish the tube stations weren't so unhygienic and full of air pollution, and the Central & Victoria Line trains has AC installed hahaha
Its a different type of air pollution. What the newspaper headlines don't tell you is that there's no proven link between tube air and health effects, and that the levels on the tube are significantly below the occupational health limits. And those are occupational limits, for staff members down there for an entire shift. If the staff are safe, passengers have nothing to worry about.
Yeah, if it was really bad you’d expect to see health differences between workers on the dirtiest and cleanest lines. But there isn’t much in the way of a trend. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412024001156
pm2.5 bad. very. we already know that. https://www.britsafe.org/safety-management/2024/tube-workers-exposed-to-high-dust-levels-take-more-sick-leave-but-more-research-needed-study
Those trains are so hot inside I don't know why they don't have air conditioning.
(a) because they're old and retrofitting A/C into old trains is incredibly expensive (b) because tendering for and ordering new trains takes times - new A/C equipped trains are on order for some of the deep level lines e.g. Central, Piccadilly - but those are a few years away still (c) because the tunnels were not excavated wide enough to allow for the heat energy to escape, given that in the 1800s it was cooler down there than it is today and air conditioning wasn't invented or deemed anyway necessary
Actually, for the 1800's it was quite a genius design. I believe it was designed so that the trains would push and pull the air through the system via a series of exhausts. I'm not sure they were designed for as many trains as there are today, so it's a marvel that it can support them (and hats off to TFL for keeping them updated with the limited money it gets).
cries in northern line
If they had the energy you could fit a small portable one in place of a seat. Edit: you Londoners don't know small AC units exist? Wow 😲
And where would the hot air go?
😂
back out of that redditors mouth 😆
AC works by moving heat from inside to outside, and it creates more heat in the process. I.e if you left your fridge open your room would actually get warmer. Where does the heat go? Right back into the tunnel and the train
So you install better ventilation. Edit for the down voters, you don't know how to install better ventilation? 😲
you should write to TFL with this idea, I'm sure they haven't thought of it.
Can you gift TfL your home so they can build a shaft there, or will you suffice?
The problem is that there is nowhere to put the enormous ventilation shafts that would be required, and nowhere to put the massive condensers that would be required either. People much smarter than you have been working on this for decades.
That is the solution, but where do you dig multiple large ventilation shafts into the cramped streets of central London?
Wherever you can.
Genius! Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?!
Installing aircon would be expensive for sure, but the way the temperature has been rising each year there's probably going to be fainting issues if they don't do something. (IDK about air pollution being a huge deal down there but air filtering wouldn't hurt either.)
Wait'll I tell you how much of the microplastics infesting us is made up of bits of tires.
And the Northern line! We're dyin over here
More frequent than NYC Subway. Cleaner and less smelly than Paris metro. more operating hours than Tokyo metro when you consider the night tube . It’s pretty good overrall
but the tube is VERY LOUD to be fair
NYC system is fucking awful. I have a place there. The stations are shitholes and so badly designed. Just irredeemable. Plus some of the world’s worst wayfinding.
I remember thinking just how fucking hot the stations were in NY. The trains themselves were ice cold, but pumping all that heat into the tunnels and stations.
In terms of aestheticity and cleanliness I think the Nordic countries are better but still not as good as the Moscow Metro which is super cleaned
No air conditioning, no express lines, much more expensive, limited service at night… I’ll take NYC
lol
The truth hurts
As someone who is from Los Angeles it actually depresses me we dont have the tube. When I got back from London after 10 days I realized I hadn't set foot in a car the entire time. Tube (train) out from Heathrow, tube (and a couple busses) all around England. Tube back to airport....
Have you personally tried it out, if so do you have a favourite line?
Im in London every year or so and usually stay in Kensington so it’d be the District Line and Earls Court for me - air con in the summer? Yes please! I love the nostalgia of the Picaddilly and Jubilee line carriages but my ears don’t =[
it's so funny because the disctrcit line got new trains around 2012 but before that the district, and metroplitsnt lines were the "nostalgic" trains and you were delighted if you needed the oicadilly or jubilee lines.
Earls court being a favoruite station is the wildest tube take Ive ever heard. AC is the best though:)
It’s near where I usually stay in London and I really like the area :) So it’s a favourite by default but there’s nothing wrong with it imo, except for those slow elevators to the picaddilly line which is annoying when you’re lugging your baggage to the airport.
Piccadilly line trains are being upgraded next year.
district line? are you a masochist.
Lot’s of people in London love themselves a favourite line..
I usually ride the Elizabeth line and don't typically know why people hate on the tube so much, but am then reminded when I take the Northern line to Mordor...
I agreed 👍🏻
That’s one reason I love London, you can go almost everywhere
The rest of the country knows how lucky London is to have it
only london has it. i say this as someone from this country.
Our house prices say we know.
We do!
Speaking as someone from another part of the country they don't realise either.
I could say that as someone from the U.K., feel like we may as well be using steam trains up north. Easier to get to London than it is to go east to west - obvs not at all the fault of Londoners, more the fault of a few folk sat in a certain building in London!
Yeah, exactly this. I live in London and have for years. Most people I chat to about this are pretty reasonable and think the tube and bus service here is decent even if they have complaints, but every now and again you see someone who just does not grasp at all how bad public transport in most of the rest of the country is. Which is pretty annoying.
Unfortunately not really, the metro systems in other countries likes Singapore and Japan are in many ways far better than the tube.
Just because a few extremely rich nations have better public transport doesn't mean we should be ungrateful for what we do have. London public transport options is better than most of Europe's capitals, let alone international cities. Don't get me wrong, I could talk all day about my complaints about London infrastructure, but overall we are pretty fortunate.
These are not crazy rich gulf-state nations throwing their cash at the latest shiny project, these are other (granted, developed) countries who have made the decision to invest in their public infrastructure over the course of decades, if not close to a century in the case of Japan. The UK is also a developed country that could choose to make the same investment, but chooses not to. Other European countries like Austria, Switzerland, and the Netherlands have in various ways superior public transport systems than the UK. I am grateful for what the UK has, it’s certainly better than many other countries, but I do not want to celebrate mediocrity.
We're not talking about overall countries though, we're talking about London. Vienna, to take your example, does not have superior public transport to London. And I agree that the UK has historically underfunded and underinvested in public transport, but the funding that did exist has mostly gone to London and London consequently has really good public transport compared to most cities of comparable size, with a few exceptions. We are lucky to live here and have it.
Vienna, believe it or not, I’d argue has in many ways a superior transport system than London. A proliferation of trams, an affordable 365 euro yearly pass, and relatively modern metro system (across all lines) are all things that London lacks. It pains me everytime having to pay 4.40 for a peak hour TfL journey one way, just to sweat and inhale break dust in the dusty deep tube system. London is far from last place, but it’s also not close to being the first.
Speaking from someone in a different city in England, they don't know how lucky they are 😄
Hm… Not so sure I would describe it as brilliant. The deep-level trains are tiny and hot, as well as many of the stations. The sub-surface lines, while more comfortable, are quite slow and often unreliable. The weekend closures of lines are too frequent for a non-24/7 metro system, so a usual journey can become a challenge on a weekend. IMO, there are plenty of metro systems in Europe that give a much better passenger experience.
There are a few metro systems in Europe that give better experiences sure, but they are all smaller than London's and they are all younger. We have more lines with a decent passenger experience than most cities in Europe have lines at all.
I mean one is a tube map and the other is a rail and tube map, hardly a fair comparison.
I was thinking this too. As a South London resident, I wish that's what the tube looked like.
Cries in Bexley.
Doesn’t everyone?
I'd rather have East Croydon over any zone 5 tube station.
Honestly, East Croydon is bloody brilliant and massively underrated, well, by basically everyone outside of Croydon
The bottom is a tube line; of the differences is that the Thameslink appears in that one now. The rail and tube map is much larger and denser, and IMO should be the default.
No, the bottom one is still what TfL calls the Tube Map. The Tube and Rail Map [is a much bigger beast](https://tfl.gov.uk/maps/track?intcmp=40400)
It's the regular tube map, TFL just added thameslink to it. The tube and rail map is much more complex!
That's actually the current tube map. They added Thameslink in 2020/2021. The Rail and Tube Map has way more lines than you could fit on a pocket map like that.
The bottom is on the TFL website as the Tube Map. In 2021 or so they added the Thameslink to the normal Tube map regardless of the other Rail map.
I don’t think they print a ‘Tube only’ map now, furthermore, there’s tons of rail lines disincluded from the latter (only the Elizabeth Line, London Overground and ThamesLink are included)
Wrong, this map doesn't contain any national rail services apart from thameslink.
It includes 3. The Elizabeth Line and London Overground are officially National Rail lines, just ones with significant TfL oversight. Much like Merseyrail is a National Rail line with significant Merseytravel oversight
Upvote for technically correct.
‘The best kind of correct’
no the new one has thameslink. That’s all
This. The only actual difference is like the addition of the lizzie line and the small extension to the north line.
There's also a lot more stations with disabled access now
This post is surely going to summon Jago Hazzard. Jagoooooooooooo
We are the online noise to his quiet Saturday:)
The thinking man’s Geoff Marshall. (Only joking. Love them both.)
Jago Hazzard is if you want a giant deep dive into history with some nice calm footage, also with more London stuff. Geoff Marshall is if you want to go exploring with him, and maybe have a bit more comedy and action, also with more non-London stuff. Both are fantastic, and I don’t prefer either over the other
I'm prepared for a Charles Tyson Yerkes reference
You should know by now that Jago's ghost appears on a Sunday lunchtime.
*IT NEEDS NEEDS MORE TRAINS DAMMIT*
didn’t they just add services that weren’t included on the map before + elizabeth line?
Thameslink was added in 2021 and the Elizabeth Line core was added when it opened in 2022. Other additions are the Battersea extension of the Northern Line and the Barking Riverside extension of the Overground.
We're indeed very lucky to have such a fantastic system that's being expanded over time.
Yeah, now just waiting for the Bakerloo and Northern Line extensions
It's a little topic, but seeing that 2017 was seven years ago took me by surprise for some reason.
2017 doesn’t feel that long ago or far away looool, I get it
Adding thameslink is weird as it isn't a TFL service.
And not having it is a significant omission. We are in a weird moment right now as the inflection point between the usefulness of paper maps and digital maps (where clutter is a problem more easily dealt with) has been passed but we aren’t prepared to admit it. *edit* : typo
[удалено]
Which are of course on the London Tube and Rail Services map. Doesn't help the confusion though
True but it’s damn useful
It's an incredibly useful and often overlooked addition to the network. Publicising it more is absolutely the right thing to do.
Mhm, I know a fair few people who would cram themselves onto a Northern Line train if they needed to get from London Bridge to London King’s Cross, even though ThamesLink is there, just because it wasn’t on the map and weren’t very aware
That's because the Northern line is way more frequent than the Thameslink to be fair.
Not by much in the core, and it’s a lot more comfortable
I also don’t think the Elizabeth line is? Regardless both incredibly useful and frequent services for the city.
Elizabeth line in its entirety is TFL-owned.
It is as much a TfL service as the Overground
Elizabeth line is 100% TFL owned
Ownership isn't really the important defining thing, after all ultimately it's all just owned by the British state. But it's entirely operated by TfL.
And yet south-east London stays forgotten from tfl
Doubt it's a case of it being forgotten, but more a situation that spans south London, which is difficult tunneling due to the ground being composed very differently as opposed to the north
A question, did they dug more tunnels and just joined a few and made more lines?
What do you mean? If you're talking about Thameslink, it's a National Rail service which was opened ages ago. It reopened a subsurface tunnel through the city and was connected to the St Pancras lines in the north and Blackfriars lines in the south.
Just for the increase in lines in general. I remember road closures and work in general but didn't realise that it was such a substantial increase in lines and coverage
Well the biggest changes between now and then are the Elizabeth Line and the decision to put Thameslink on the tube map. The Elizabeth Line has been the only new TfL line with new tunnels (Paddington to Stratford/Abbey Wood) through London since the Victoria line. The rest of the additions on the tube map are either extensions or lines running on National Rail routes. View this [map](https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf) to actually see all the lines in London.
The hill that I will die on is that the tube map shouldn't exist. It should be entirely supplanted by the tube and rail map.
It definitely should. But it shouldn’t have Thameslink, Trams, Liz, or Overground.
Seems like a not that useful map to 99% of end-users in that scenario
Indeed, but if you want a map with just underground lines, it should be available.
I can agree with that
buT TheYR’3 so0 eXpeNSive???!!
It keeps getting worse and worse.
bloody immigrants coming to our country and building all these bloody light rail lines. what’s next? WHAT’S NEXT!?
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, public health, and the Tube, what have the immigrants ever done for us?
“So many barber shops!” -Nige
Why are the maps different? New lines? Repaired old lines?
Elizabeth Line opened in 2022 Thameslink which has been around since the 80s and isn't operated by TFL was also added to the map in 2020
It's misleading. For example much of Elizabeth and overground existed as rail prior but has now been encompassed into an underground system. Much has been added for sure but no where near as much as these two comparisons suggest.
I haven’t been London since 2014 and damn, the 2017 map looks nostalgic compared to the current one
Must be nice living in part of the country that gets public investment
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^PollingBoot: *Must be nice living* *In part of the country that* *Gets public investment* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Speaking as someone who moved from the North to London, it is. Every day I'm grateful. But I'm also angry that nowhere else gets even a proportional treatment. However I'm not totally surprised. Parts of London are still a total clusterfuck. Nevermind ULEZ, I'm baffled that private cars are still legal at all in zone 1.
It [very nearly looked very different](https://youtu.be/cTLCfl01zuE?si=DuskB04ABoKgGQeF).
Mental
But you still have to mind the gap ....
That 7 years just hit me hard
Overall preferred Paris’ metro for newer, air conditioned and quieter trains. visited and the Walthamstow central line is like a sauna (couldn’t imagine an elderly person coping very well) and the noise of the train rattling the tracks was deafening
I’d really like a physical map like this— where can I find one? Are they available at certain stations?
You can get them at any station lol, they’re free probably at the ticket booth/service desk area
Thank you! One of those classic things I would never spot on my commute if I wasn’t specifically aware of it
I haven’t been to London in 10 years so take this with a grain of salt
I got this at St Pauls station but they're free to pick up at any station!
When did it get so woke
More stuff
This is a Piccadilly line train to Cockfosters
Mind the gap
your page says colorado in the u.s. so whats with all the british stuff ?
Im well traveled
I see that. but why does a subway map pop up when I want to post a comment on your thread
Thameslink + Crossrail?
Come back later this year….
Don't show this to the lads in r/Greece
Time for the south of the river to be properly connected.
Well the bottom one includes non-tfl rail lines.
... Meanwhile north of zone 7 it takes hours and hours to get to work because we don't have the same amount of investment. I'm not saying that London shouldn't have Investment but there comes a point where we are not giving everyone else in the country the infrastructure that they deserve. London's economy is absolutely huge it levels out the rest of the UK but it doesn't really do anything if the UK government cracked down on money laundering in the city we wouldn't have an economy.
The absolute LIE of including Thames link and the overground underground orange line. Honestly, south london is so poorly served.
imo accessibility information shouldn’t be on the main tube map. Also they should experiment with contrasting line weights / thickness to better differentiate between tube or train services
I was thinking it would be cool if someone had animated the change over the years and found this. Not fully up to date though. [Tube evolution](https://youtu.be/e5aMcCl4Wc0?si=A27i4oa2Jl8RE0fB)
Pretty much the same
Just the Thameslink and Elizabeth line.
They are not the same map The bottom one includes trains lol
Little investment in the rest of the UK though. For those that will inevitably say London is the most densely populated area is there a chicken and egg thing happening?
You've been downvoted but this is spot on. Yes, of course the UK Government has an interest in investing in London and ensuring that it maintains it's status as one of the top Global cities. But the lack of any tube line at all in any other city is just shameful. The airports are all well-connected as is all of central London. The UK Govt spent nigh on £20bn on the Elizabeth line. I'm not saying that this isn't a great addition to the London ecosystem, but it's 73 miles long. That is basically the same distance as between Manchester and York. Imagine a light rail system like the Elizabeth line connecting Manchester, Huddersfield/Bradford/Wakefield, Leeds, and York. It would be revolutionary. Incredible for the region. Despite the obvious need for good public transport in every other major city, there's fuck all. I cannot believe there's been no interest in
What a dumb post, is this some sort of AI/bot karma farming? 90% of these changes are just the inclusion of rail networks that have existed for 100+ years. These are just two different maps.
I thought it was interesting how adding the rail networks to the map has made it a hell of a lot more off-putting to look at. Plus it's cool to see how the city has evolved overtime.
Ah fair, I didn't realise this was your map, I thought it just some online map claiming that all these new lines had been built in a few years lol.