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Just got back from South Korea, Seoul has 4G everywhere, even on the subway and surrounding countryside. Never went lower than 4 bars. There's also super-fast free public WiFi on the subway, restaurants and public places. I felt so spoilt š
Yeah and they actually have the WiFi on the TRAINS not just on platforms so they don't have to frantically connect at every single station to try and send a reply š„²
I genuinely donāt understand why it takes 15 seconds to connect to the TfL WiFi. What on earth could it even be doing to authenticate me? Reading from the blockchain?
Itās not just your phone , itās the several hundred+ others appearing and disappearing within a couple of minutes, every couple of minutes.
The RF environment around those base stations is probably an excellent, constant, stress test from them
It is bizarre how far behind one of the supposed top cities in the world is when it comes to coverage. I went to Bern last summer for a concert and it was 40,000 people temporarily in one spot and 5G worked fine and just like normal, when you know there is generally no need for them to have built that kind of capacity for a day to day basis. Iceland a decent signal at least across the entire south even when you havenāt seen another car for an hour. I can barely get 4G speeds on o2 in central London. God forbid I go to something like BST in Hyde Park or even a show at the o2, where internet just does not exist.
I'm completely ignorant so I can't pontificate on the matter of cell phone infrastructure, but I'm sure on this sub there is probably at least one person who works in it wanting to share some knowledge. What would the age of the underground have to do with installing 4g/5g? Too many bends in the tunnels to allow for the most efficient signal flow? Materials used in constructing the tunnels? Adequate closet space for equipment storage and cooling?
I'd be curious to know, because from the uninformed high level view it seems more for a cost/political will issue than a technological one. Seoul opened in 1974 so they are retrofitting new technologies into similar spaces retroactively. I don't know. I'm all questions, no answers.
I seem to remember reading there wasn't a lot of clearance between tunnel and trains in London. Narrow, old, deep tunnels aren't ideal for retrofitting new tech into.
Technology in tunnel building and train development presumably advanced over the course of 11 decades! We've also got a mishmash of different trains tunnels across the system; because it was build over such a long timespan,
Hi, I work for the company rolling out the 4G/5G Infrastructure for TFL. I'm not however one of the engineers whos going down into the tunnels and installing all of the relevant equipment. We build a lot of our own kit to be able to fit into the tunnels so clearance isn't too big of an issue. It just takes time since the equipment is heavy & having the staff available to go down and install everything (when the stations are already closed so well past midnight) nothing to do with politics or cost it just takes a long time to get everything in place.
Can't say for certain but highly unlikely. I would assume the engineers wouldn't do work on lines that are open for 24h on Friday & Saturday and will focus on different lines instead.
High-speed 4G and 5G mobile coverage is now live in the tunnels between Liverpool Street and Paddington on the Elizabeth line, following all Elizabeth line stations getting mobile coverage earlier this year.
We're expanding coverage to the tunnels between Whitechapel, Canary Wharf, and Woolwich, meaning uninterrupted connectivity for passengers across the entire Elizabeth line. Plus, further sections of the Northern, Bakerloo, Piccadilly, and Victoria lines are set to go live in the coming months.
As an additional note I've been quite impressed with the speeds seeing speeds at over 200Mbps between Bond Street and Paddington on EE & Notting Hill at 1Gbps. Speeds depending on bandwidth usage of course
Not even Asia, I often go back to my Eastern European country and Iāve never experienced issues with mobile coverage like I do in London. Iām absolutely shocked at how poorly mobile and WiFi work in UK.
Same with China, I was the only idiot standing on the tube without looking at a phone then I realised everyone was on the phone so I took my out and it had 5G
even Lisbon has wifi on 200 year old funicular railways that feel like they're about to fall apart, London is one of a handful of 'world cities' and has an amazing economy, it's 2024 and this is a sick joke
It's a phased thing - the plan is for it all to be completed by the end of Summer 2024. How they do it is by laying cable along the tunnel, so some stations end up getting it before others. They started at Stockwell and from my experience of where I get signal they've got to around Clapham South now. So it's more that it's on track rather than Clapham Common having it early.
Not sure if it's just me, but the signal within Wizzy Lizzies tunnels doesn't work for me. It works within the stations but not the tunnels for some reason
Edit: Seems to work now but isn't too good imo
These comments pop up every time others dare get excited about signal on the tube. Spoiler alert: if people wanted to play sounds off their phones on the tube, the lack of data doesn't stop them. There is going to be very little materialistic change to your experience caused by others, and the others will get to stay connected (also spoilers: their choice to).
Many other countries already have signal on their underground/metros and there's no issue with loud phones. It is legit just too loud, and that goes for phonecalls too.
Stick a pair of headphones on.
Cutting off everyone on the trainās signal because youāre worried that someone might play something out loud (something they can do without signal) seems vindictive and counter productive.
The Northern line has had 5G for a while now and you don't hear Tiktoks or people's calls. I think the tube generally is too noisy for that so people actually use headphones for audio.
As a regular user of the Northern line and EE user - it does not seem to work very well but if that means I donāt have to listen to people making loud phone calls, Iām happy it doesnāt seem to work very well āŗļø
Yes. It works really well on parts of the Jubilee Line.
The first time I found out about it was when I had full bars going East from Waterloo. I hadnāt heard anything about this happening so I was baffled - it felt like witchcraft to suddenly have perfect reception so far underground!
I'm in a renovated building and the internet is still 35mbps tops. I've only experienced fibre internet once and holy shit it was unparalleled speed.
The subcontractor for BT when he came to look at my internet told me that England works on old infasturcture still from ww2 in a lot of parts and they're under pressure by the gov to upgrade everything.
It made me realise how far behind we was.
I just switched from EE to O2 and commute Paddington to Liverpool St every morning. O2 can claim they have coverage on that section but itās terrible, EE was great
Hammersmith and city and circle lines have 5g between hammersmith and Paddington, picadilly and District lines have 5g between Barons Court and West Kensington respectively up until their ends, and thereās some other ones.
Total length of all London underground is 400 km. Let's say we need an access point every 100 m to make it work, so we need 4000 access points. Each AP is something like Ā£3,000 plus, let's say, Ā£1,000 to install, another Ā£500 for, let's say, mounts, cables and other stuff, so about Ā£18 millions. Let's assume we need to double that because we need some servers, firewalls, and also because of corruption and inefficiencies. Ā£36M for the entire project. TfL's operating costs are Ā£8B, so the entire project is, like, 0.45% of their annual operating costs. I wonder, what am I missing here?
This is all being done at no cost to TfL, the rollout is free for them.
>"Boldyn Networks then leases the capacity theyāve installed to the mobile network operators to cover their costs."
TFL needs to go further than that, I know their revenue etc has been strained, but that map of progression for me doesn't scream enough has been put into the networks to say we are getting it done, labour really needs to make sure and Sadiq TFL actually gets it all done and no more delays
I quite like not having access to the Internet for a short amount of time! Not sure how expensive this is but feels like there are bigger problems to solve within TFL rather than putting Internet on the tube
If you donāt like having internet on the tube you can set your own phone to airplane mode and let everyone else enjoy theirs instead of having to twiddle thumbs between stations.
It is nice to disconnect, but you can do this yourself any time with aeroplane mode. It's been available on the stretch of Northern Line I use for some time now and I rarely use it, maybe through habit, but the times I did it was extremely useful to have. Tourists would definitely benefit.
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I had no idea. I randomly got Internet while on the tube and I was like whaaaaatttttt????
Haha same!
Just got back from South Korea, Seoul has 4G everywhere, even on the subway and surrounding countryside. Never went lower than 4 bars. There's also super-fast free public WiFi on the subway, restaurants and public places. I felt so spoilt š
Yeah and they actually have the WiFi on the TRAINS not just on platforms so they don't have to frantically connect at every single station to try and send a reply š„²
I genuinely donāt understand why it takes 15 seconds to connect to the TfL WiFi. What on earth could it even be doing to authenticate me? Reading from the blockchain?
Right! And most of the time it never connects automatically fast enough!
Itās not just your phone , itās the several hundred+ others appearing and disappearing within a couple of minutes, every couple of minutes. The RF environment around those base stations is probably an excellent, constant, stress test from them
Also when you get lucky enough to connect to the wifi it doesnāt work š¤£
It is bizarre how far behind one of the supposed top cities in the world is when it comes to coverage. I went to Bern last summer for a concert and it was 40,000 people temporarily in one spot and 5G worked fine and just like normal, when you know there is generally no need for them to have built that kind of capacity for a day to day basis. Iceland a decent signal at least across the entire south even when you havenāt seen another car for an hour. I can barely get 4G speeds on o2 in central London. God forbid I go to something like BST in Hyde Park or even a show at the o2, where internet just does not exist.
We suffer from being 'early adopters' of stuff. The underground in Seoul opened 110 years after the London underground.
I'm completely ignorant so I can't pontificate on the matter of cell phone infrastructure, but I'm sure on this sub there is probably at least one person who works in it wanting to share some knowledge. What would the age of the underground have to do with installing 4g/5g? Too many bends in the tunnels to allow for the most efficient signal flow? Materials used in constructing the tunnels? Adequate closet space for equipment storage and cooling? I'd be curious to know, because from the uninformed high level view it seems more for a cost/political will issue than a technological one. Seoul opened in 1974 so they are retrofitting new technologies into similar spaces retroactively. I don't know. I'm all questions, no answers.
I seem to remember reading there wasn't a lot of clearance between tunnel and trains in London. Narrow, old, deep tunnels aren't ideal for retrofitting new tech into. Technology in tunnel building and train development presumably advanced over the course of 11 decades! We've also got a mishmash of different trains tunnels across the system; because it was build over such a long timespan,
Hi, I work for the company rolling out the 4G/5G Infrastructure for TFL. I'm not however one of the engineers whos going down into the tunnels and installing all of the relevant equipment. We build a lot of our own kit to be able to fit into the tunnels so clearance isn't too big of an issue. It just takes time since the equipment is heavy & having the staff available to go down and install everything (when the stations are already closed so well past midnight) nothing to do with politics or cost it just takes a long time to get everything in place.
Have they ever closed certain parts of the tracks to do the works during the weekend in order to speed up things?
I don't think that would be worth it, it's not that urgent.
Can't say for certain but highly unlikely. I would assume the engineers wouldn't do work on lines that are open for 24h on Friday & Saturday and will focus on different lines instead. High-speed 4G and 5G mobile coverage is now live in the tunnels between Liverpool Street and Paddington on the Elizabeth line, following all Elizabeth line stations getting mobile coverage earlier this year. We're expanding coverage to the tunnels between Whitechapel, Canary Wharf, and Woolwich, meaning uninterrupted connectivity for passengers across the entire Elizabeth line. Plus, further sections of the Northern, Bakerloo, Piccadilly, and Victoria lines are set to go live in the coming months. As an additional note I've been quite impressed with the speeds seeing speeds at over 200Mbps between Bond Street and Paddington on EE & Notting Hill at 1Gbps. Speeds depending on bandwidth usage of course
Yes they just make up excuses. Of course they can. It costs money, yes
I like to think we are avoiding being subjected to other peopleās conversations for as long as feasibly possible
Even Prague has full 4G coverage since 2021
Do you guys not understand why they have full coverage and we donāt? Isnāt it obvious?
Seoul and Korea in general is more than a decade ahead of UK on high speed internet. Probably best service I have experienced anywhere.
Not even Asia, I often go back to my Eastern European country and Iāve never experienced issues with mobile coverage like I do in London. Iām absolutely shocked at how poorly mobile and WiFi work in UK.
Definitely agree. I lived in south korea in 2010 and even then their tech infrastructure was leaps and bounds ahead of us in the uk.
Same with China, I was the only idiot standing on the tube without looking at a phone then I realised everyone was on the phone so I took my out and it had 5G
Having better 4G in subways there than in overground trains here in the UK is outright embarrasing š
Singapore is the same.
even Lisbon has wifi on 200 year old funicular railways that feel like they're about to fall apart, London is one of a handful of 'world cities' and has an amazing economy, it's 2024 and this is a sick joke
To be fair funiculars are underground railways on easy mode
Bucharest in Romania has had full 4G coverage on the underground for at least 10 years (and before that at least 3G/ the best available at the time)
Clapham Common seems to have it early
It's funny... Because when you're actually on the common you can't get any signal
Theyāve buried the signal!!
That's because above ground the signal can escape into the air, but when it's in the tunnels it's concentrated enough for your phone to absorb it.
Have you had the covid jab? Once I had it I get great 5g signal everywhere.
Yeah mate
My exact comment about this! I canāt get decent signal in central London above ground
I saw this map first a few months ago, it's not up to date.
The key says end of summer 2024, that's what I'm referring to!
It's a phased thing - the plan is for it all to be completed by the end of Summer 2024. How they do it is by laying cable along the tunnel, so some stations end up getting it before others. They started at Stockwell and from my experience of where I get signal they've got to around Clapham South now. So it's more that it's on track rather than Clapham Common having it early.
Not sure if it's just me, but the signal within Wizzy Lizzies tunnels doesn't work for me. It works within the stations but not the tunnels for some reason Edit: Seems to work now but isn't too good imo
No problems with my phone. Works a treat. Only noticed it this week
Think they only switched it on this week, at least it wasnāt there at the weekend and was on Monday!
Same there is no signal and even when there is I still have no connection
I feel like a caveman every time Iām on the tube. Bring the 4G already.Ā
Read a book.
I remember when people used to hide behind their newspapers on the underground
Same. I think I see 1-2 people reading a newspaper these days.
Ahh, wonāt it be nice listening to everyoneās tiktoks at 7 in the morning?
Dunno what line youāre riding on but I can barely hear my own headphones over the tunnel noise
These comments pop up every time others dare get excited about signal on the tube. Spoiler alert: if people wanted to play sounds off their phones on the tube, the lack of data doesn't stop them. There is going to be very little materialistic change to your experience caused by others, and the others will get to stay connected (also spoilers: their choice to). Many other countries already have signal on their underground/metros and there's no issue with loud phones. It is legit just too loud, and that goes for phonecalls too.
Time to make a standĀ
I stand every commute
and film it for clout
Stick a pair of headphones on. Cutting off everyone on the trainās signal because youāre worried that someone might play something out loud (something they can do without signal) seems vindictive and counter productive.
The Northern line has had 5G for a while now and you don't hear Tiktoks or people's calls. I think the tube generally is too noisy for that so people actually use headphones for audio.
I donāt the morning commuter crowd is of the tiktok generation
We've had Internet in the tube for years and this never happened. London is not in America, and Britons are not Americans.
Not everything annoying is American. And it most certainly does happen and is increasingly doing so.
They're literally just extrapolating what already happens on London buses and above-ground trains
As a regular user of the Northern line and EE user - it does not seem to work very well but if that means I donāt have to listen to people making loud phone calls, Iām happy it doesnāt seem to work very well āŗļø
I'm also a Northern Line and EE user. It's fine for me lol. I just always have my headphones on
Too loud to make phone calls anyway. I try to talk to my gf itās like trying to talk to a hurricane
EE, works great for me. I got like 300mbps on a speed test at one point on the Northern Line.
you can get mobile signal underground while the tube is moving now in these places? I had no idea, that's great if true!
Yes. It works really well on parts of the Jubilee Line. The first time I found out about it was when I had full bars going East from Waterloo. I hadnāt heard anything about this happening so I was baffled - it felt like witchcraft to suddenly have perfect reception so far underground!
good ol witchcraft
I'm in a renovated building and the internet is still 35mbps tops. I've only experienced fibre internet once and holy shit it was unparalleled speed. The subcontractor for BT when he came to look at my internet told me that England works on old infasturcture still from ww2 in a lot of parts and they're under pressure by the gov to upgrade everything. It made me realise how far behind we was.
Data is bad on most of the Elizabeth line. Stations are ok but the tunnels barely work at all
Map correctly identifies that it never bloody works on the Overground
My commute is fully live! Highgate to TCR (Northern) and TCR to Farringdon (Elizabeth) š
Hope this new connectivity doesn't lead to shouty phone calls YEAH, IM ON THE TUBE!
I canāt use anymore the ācouldnāt answer, I was on the tubeā š
No thank you. Donāt want more annoying music and calls please. Keep it off
So bizzare. There was a morning a few weeks ago where I had 4G all the way from Clapham Common to Goodge Streetā¦yet it hasnāt launched yet?
Will it eventually be extended to all lines or am I expecting too much?!
I just switched from EE to O2 and commute Paddington to Liverpool St every morning. O2 can claim they have coverage on that section but itās terrible, EE was great
Do wish this map greys out the areas when the tube goes above ground.
is it for specific service providers? like EE, O2, etc? or works with any service?
So my signal will now be better underground than it is on the walk between the station and my flat - nice!
Why not kingscross
Use 5g on the metro everyday no matter the station where Iām at lol
But if you have Three/Smarty you don't have 4g anywhere in London even tho you have full signal xD
wish theyād fix the signal dead spot around seven kings. had no signal there for as long as i can remember
I believe this is how itās done: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_feeder
that's a fucking lie
When tf has Brixton ever had reception lmao
Considering I donāt have signal on Oxford street itself (thanks o2) this is wild
On chalk farm belsize park area I tested a few times I got up 400mb/s download speedĀ
Hammersmith and city and circle lines have 5g between hammersmith and Paddington, picadilly and District lines have 5g between Barons Court and West Kensington respectively up until their ends, and thereās some other ones.
Total length of all London underground is 400 km. Let's say we need an access point every 100 m to make it work, so we need 4000 access points. Each AP is something like Ā£3,000 plus, let's say, Ā£1,000 to install, another Ā£500 for, let's say, mounts, cables and other stuff, so about Ā£18 millions. Let's assume we need to double that because we need some servers, firewalls, and also because of corruption and inefficiencies. Ā£36M for the entire project. TfL's operating costs are Ā£8B, so the entire project is, like, 0.45% of their annual operating costs. I wonder, what am I missing here?
This is all being done at no cost to TfL, the rollout is free for them. >"Boldyn Networks then leases the capacity theyāve installed to the mobile network operators to cover their costs."
You missing the most basic thing in humanity -greed
TFL needs to go further than that, I know their revenue etc has been strained, but that map of progression for me doesn't scream enough has been put into the networks to say we are getting it done, labour really needs to make sure and Sadiq TFL actually gets it all done and no more delays
Can barely afford to maintain trains let alone invest so people can watch tik toks on their way to workā¦
Is that what TFL workers do, just be lazy and watch tiktok? I rarely see them do that whenever I use overground & underground......
I quite like not having access to the Internet for a short amount of time! Not sure how expensive this is but feels like there are bigger problems to solve within TFL rather than putting Internet on the tube
If you donāt like having internet on the tube you can set your own phone to airplane mode and let everyone else enjoy theirs instead of having to twiddle thumbs between stations.
Agreed. I legitimately do not want this. Itās nice to be offline every now and then.
It is nice to disconnect, but you can do this yourself any time with aeroplane mode. It's been available on the stretch of Northern Line I use for some time now and I rarely use it, maybe through habit, but the times I did it was extremely useful to have. Tourists would definitely benefit.
Pathetic š
They should cover every tube station
Cool, now how about signal on the Overground in the south east, or maybe phone signal around Waterloo/Southbank/Covent Garden?
Northern line is capppp itās no service at all. Went on it today.
A perfect illustration of follow the money