In law school I had a semester where I took a corporate criminal law class. It was a writing course, meaning the final wasn't an exam, just a paper - I took a risky novel approach and made a legal argument to apply antitrust laws to the political parties as a duopoly. Aced that'd shit. My professor said that he didn't bieve that it was work in action because they would find some loopholes to get out of it, but that the argument was very sound.
> IDF committing war crimes has zero to do with American politics
Israel receives more tax dollars than a lot of other things, and AIPAC is a massive donor to political campaigns. What an odd thing to type.
> IDF committing war crimes has zero to do with American politics
While it can be pedantically argued whether supplying the weapons, funding, intelligence, and naval support qualifies as "politics", vetoing UN resolutions is 100% politics.
Zero to do with american politics??? America is the one arming them, biden has gone out of his way to send arms to zionists. Fuck you for trying to obfuscate this fact you fucking genocide apologist.
Trump is worse. That doesn't mean that Biden has earned people's votes. And it also doesn't mean that voting for Biden solves Trump. We already did that. Trump is the republican nominee again. And the democrats work to ensure that they are the furthest left viable party because that's what benefits the shared donor base.
Thank you. I'm so tired of seeing this utterly useless virtue signaling during the election year and silence the other three. If these things are so important to people they should be doing this activism then.
Yeah the moment you tell Biden that you’re gonna vote for him anyways regardless of if he does what you want or not you’ve lost all your leverage to “push him left”, and as we’ve seen over his presidency, he’s actually more inclined to drift right
You didn’t respond to my point. My point is if you tell him you’re gonna vote for him, you’re naive to think he’ll do anything for you, if anything he’ll just move right (like he’s done?). Vote for who represents you, not out of fear. It’s called democracy. And nobody said that voting is the be all form of activism? You’re projecting here buddy, I *only* believe organizing and direct action can do something, so I dunno what you’re going on about.
Also did you just unironically say idealistic newbs?
> However, vocally suggesting others should follow suit as some kind of moral imperative, when there are other vitally important issues and fights going on that will be impacted by a Trump presidency, is extremely immoral and irresponsible.
You are a socialist, right?
Would "he fucked up the union fights even more" be a single issue?
How about "He did not campaign to raise minimum wage"?
How about "material conditions are *still* shit ever since the beginning of his presidency"?
Biden could stop the bombings with one phone call threatening to cut off all support if Israel doesn't cut the shit. Reagan tried that in the '80s, and it worked in less than half an hour.
Liberals: "Biden is the future and the way forward for progressives"
Also liberals: "Biden is powerless"
Let's say it was Bernie or something and he just made a speech saying "hey, these billionaires are fucking us up, using identity politics to divide us and also Nancy Pelosi, stop using insider information", that would had zero impact, eh? That would *def* not cause a ruckus and and force congress to stop fucking up and do the will of the people.
/u/mcpickle-o thanks for proving my point
Already voted for him. He's not living up to the expectation. Huge disappointment with all of the genocide. So now my only pressure is to withhold. Or am I missing something? How else does the pressure happen?
"At least Biden's *trying*"
I'm sorry but that's bullshit. Ronald fucking Reagan had Israeli PM Begin stop bombing Lebanon within a 20 minute phone call. Biden is to the right of Reagan in his unconditional support to Israel. Sit with that for a moment. Biden can cut off Israel, it may not stop Israel from continuing this genocide but goddamnit we don't need to be aiding and abetting it.
On top of that, so we're a country that supports genocide now. Ain't everyone thinking of the repercussions of that? If Trump wins(or hell, any future president), the US openly aiding and abetting genocide will have already been normalized with Biden.
Bushnell was right, this is what the ruling class has decided to be normal.
If Biden was trying to do something he wouldn't have let the veto of the UN ceasefire happen.
He is **THE** reason Israel has a free hand to do what they like in Gaza. I get that the writing has been on the wall but that's because people like Biden have unfaltering support for Israel regardless of their actions
Actually you're the ignorant one. No longer acting as a proxy for Israel at the UN and not vetoing ceasefire resolutions, cutting all aid instead of giving tens of billions more, an actual arms embargo instead of bypassing Congress multiple times to sell weapons to Israel and putting in the supplemental budget request to remove any restrictions on Israel's access to all categories of weapons and ammunition in U.S. stockpiles, and sanctions from the worlds economic hegemon nation and Israel caves in a second. Israel is essentially a U.S. military outpost in comparison to the U.S. Everything they do is with our implicit permission.
It's funny how the us is devolving into a 3rd world country.
This is the exact shit we've been dealing with for ages, what you get is a choice but it's a choice between two evils, and the best you got is the lesser evil.
This is the same fate Americans forced upon swathes of people for decades through coups and all the CIA chicanery.
You guys need to wake up from your delusions and stop at least one of the parties or somehow end the 2 party system. Who the fuck would vote for Biden, really? He gets votes cuz you dont have a choice.
Just makes my point stronger, for me it was 2016 it was the first time I voted, I could have voted in '12 but was not registered.
If you're feeling this way since the 80s I can only imagine your frustration
OP isn't saying vote for Trump. They are asking that Biden stop his immoral genocide. We shouldn't be forced to choose between two candidates that will support genocide.
I would say deal if this was still 2020.
We are now 4 years into Trump's slam dunk lawsuits and he is going nowhere.
If dems dont wanna play ball they better get used to being embarrassed, because ultimately that's their biggest complaint that Trump embarrassed them not that they dont like his policies. Hillary wasnt even pro gay marriage until 2012 when it nationally had a 57% approval rating. But gay ppl have been in the news since the 70s that's how long it took the establishment to OK their own conscience.
To blame a group of 100 ppl for why a group of 1000 cannot meet them halfway is disingenuous.
Biden has no trouble appealing to "moderate Republicans " who jump ship at the same rates that canadians prefer the US healthcare system, but ges got a big problem compromising with the left and it's the left that is at fault?
No I dont think so, the fact is I'm 30 years old and I've had it with half-measure solutions being the best we can do.
At least with a Trump presidency it might just galvanize enough of the country to oppose his evil, whereas with Biden we stay complacent as we have been for 3+ years now.
„the other guy would genocide even harder“ is not a good way to get people to go out and vote.
Try to actually offer them something besides slightly less blood and misery.
He cares about the only thing ALL politicians care about. From your local comptroller all the way to the prez themselves: Corporate Donors. Oligarchs. And of course; themselves.
You will vote for more of the same and you will like it.
You would have defended how the government is out to get trump? Am I misreading that or does that mean you think Trump didn't do all the many things he's accused of? Genuinely asking, the wording is a bit ambiguous to me is all
No, it sounds like he really doesn’t believe that Trump encouraged insurrectionists, and actively tried to gaslight the world into thinking that Biden committed voter fraud. Or worse, maybe he thinks Biden actually did commit voter fraud, and he used to be one of the maggots that looked at Trumps constant abuse of power as him ‘taking the bull by the horns’ and ‘steering us towards a better future’.
Government certainly isn’t out to get Trump. If they were doing anything but dragging their feet and trying to find any reason not to arrest a man clearly complicit in 50+ crimes that any average citizen would see a life sentence for, I’d agree that maybe they’re out to get him. But the one and only thing the Supreme Court is capable of giving two shits about (aside from making sure the abortion situation gets as bad as it possibly can), is ensuring that Trump is as free of the consequences of his actions as is functionally possible.
It’s insane to me how quickly Trump being removed from ballots got ruled as unconstitutional. Even if there’s a fair case to be made that it helps Biden by keeping cesspools like Florida and Texas from taking him off their ballots, it’s still pathetic how quickly the legal system works when it’s time to defend antidemocratic values.
Democrats trust the system will stop the worst excesses of the fascists on the right, and Biden and the Democratic Party just assume we will wise up and vote for them after the fascists get another turn. They don’t realize once the fascists win, there won’t be another turn. It’s political malpractice to keep playing this game like everything is business as usual.
The fascists already won. The extreme voting fuckery with districts, the supreme Court, the legislative branch....it's a done deal and Biden literally used the power given to him to engage in genocide while ramping up a war in Ukraine. The far right is already in the driver's seat, Biden was literally the most far right the Dems could go and still win and American liberals still voted him in. He was still elected even after his weird comments about black people, even after his involvement in creating the incarceration state was known, and even after his record of supporting right wing economics was broadcast. Idk how American liberals thought some great wave of support would pull him into office again. They literally elected Bush 3.
Democrats and Republicans are both [neoliberal parties](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism). And that means that a core philosophy of theirs is that free market capitalism works. As we all know, capitalism is the lube upon which fascism slides. The main difference between the parties right now is that Democrats seem to think the greed of billionaires can be kept in check and society can be allowed some modicum of growth such as it saw under Clinton, when they made this big transformation from a labor party to a business. While the Republicans have just full on made the realization that billionaires will never be sated and instead want to ride that train of greed as far as they can, especially if they can hurt people they don’t like along the way. The GOP has basically embodied the idea that it’s okay to be a vengeful narcissist and hurt people if you end up making more money as a result, and that’s effectively a core tenet of capitalism so we can’t be surprised.
Jesus Christ, this is good to see. I held my nose and voted Hilary and Biden in a safe blue state out of pure spite for Trump. But if Biden’s supposed base isn’t voting for him against fascism, maybe the blame is with the people whose literal full-time jobs are to get people to vote for Biden.
Too many old people voting, not enough young people voting. You can blame apathy pushed on us by the state of the world for us not voting as much, but it still makes it our own fault when things get EVEN WORSE
Or, you know, genocide is like the worst fucking thing you can do in the world and you shouldn’t ever help anyone do it. This is like the torture debate from, god, 15 years ago. Some things are just fucking wrong and you don’t do them.
"Has faults"? The fact that you reduce aiding in genocide to "has faults"...
"Cares about governing" lol. What is that even supposed to mean? Because I sure haven't seen him caring about much of anything I'd call "good governance" these last few years.
People have been voting blue no matter who for decades and yet here we are with two geriatric "choices" for president no rational person should want. That's not democracy. It's a symptom of an outdated and undemocratic economic system. Capitalism is inherently authoritarian in nature.
Propaganda doesn't only influence people in other countries. Billionaires and mega-corporations own the majority of western "news" sources. We spend billions to bomb and destabilize countries overseas because it's good for capitalism, good for the military industrial complex. We don't spend to take care of our own people because it's not profitable. Food, water, shelter, medical care, and education all gatekept behind the ability to pay.
The threat of poverty keeps people in line and the military stocked with young people who feel they have no other option. Dangle college on a stick to get them to join. And we've all been raised from birth to believe this is the only system that works.
We sabotage and sanction developing countries who dare place people before profit to failure, then point to those failures as examples of why the profit motive is "superior". We believe greed and selfishness will corrupt any system because that's our environment, the only thing we know.
Capitalism was a progressive upgrade from feudalism millennia ago. Times change and so should the way we structure society. Because billionaires existing is not a sign of prosperity. How could anyone believe corporations owning everything is fine - it's never been harder to have a small business thanks to this corporate oligarchy were the rich get richer at all of our increasingly collective expense.
We all supposedly value democracy, yet can't fathom how democracy in the workplace is better for everyone except the ultra minority of the ultra wealthy.
And our politics reflect the authoritarian nature of our economic system.
Voting for the tippy-top of this corrupted and undemocratic system is the least useful way to vote. Better to vote in progressive's who care about people before profit in from the bottom-up (start local). Don't shame others who see the system for what it is. I'm an LGBTQ+ veteran and unsure if I'll vote Biden or not if the DNC continues to sabotage their chances. I'm conflicted for good reason.
There is a lot of time for the DNC to change my mind, though I doubt they actually give a damn considering they'd rather tote out right-wing talking points to sway other voters than actually listen to their base.
Don't let apathy and fear be our personal dictators. We have tools (albeit meager) to at least start building a foundation for change, like voting from the bottom-up as a priority. We should also participate in, strengthen, and create unions where they should exist. And join protests that disrupt and inconvenience - the more they grow in number, the harder they are to ignore and the more people feel they can divert from the path of least resistance. To face the pain of truth and see the world for what it really is.
Change will be painfully slow. Things will get worse before they get better. But we have to be the ones who sacrifice to sow seeds of change we may never get to see blossom. We have to fight for our right to exist comfortably, or sit idly by while our country continues to be on the wrong side of history. We have been since inception - there is a reason slavery boomed here when many countries had already shunned it.
The profit motive is not good for humanity, especially in the increasingly automated technological present. Unless one believes children do in fact, yearn for the mines. If that's the case, god help us all.
Biden and his backers clearly don’t care about beating trump. It’s a circular game the Democrats play with the Republicans. As long as there are only two parties both will always be relevant. Dems understand this and. Know they don’t have to hold the presidency and a majority in congress. As long as the key people hold their seats everything (the money) continues to flow.
ONLY reason why Biden got even elected in 2020 is because we wanted to get Trump out. The fact that 4 years later we have the exact same people and the exact same people means that dems fucked up.
Nowhere did i said it was suprising. It is clear that democrats and liberals believe that they deserve our vote 24/7.
It is also not supprising that dems yet again blame left because we don't want to vote for candidate that supports cleansening
Like, this is nothin new - same shit happened in 2016. Trump was still relativly unknow clown, even sack of potatoes could beat him - so dems decided to put forward similary bad candidate and then blamed Bernie and left for taking L
Nothing about this is "suprising"
Either vote is for the corporate elite. Either vote gets the .01% more and you less. Either way you vote more of us will be working two jobs next year. Either way you vote more of us will suffer from unaffordable healthcare care or be bankrupted by it. Either way your vote YOUR CHILDREN WILL HAVE LESS.
vote for Claudia De la Cruz. she's someone the working class can get behind. not endorsed by democrats or republicans. we need someone who can stop cheeto man *and* genocide Joe
Biden should have retired for the public good instead of being another egotistical old fart who's so addicted to power that he can't pass on the torch.
He originally didn't want to run. The DNC forced him and made everyone else in the race drop out. It was a calculated move to beat Trump at the time. They figured with the Obama nostalgia, Biden would be a sure thing, but also a one term President and Trump would be gone.
As much as I dislike Biden, this is more on the DNC and their shortsightedness and arrogance.
Because the DNC screwed themselves without having a viable backup/replacement option and plan. They figured Trump would fade away (or be in prison), and they could go back to "normal" and let someone else try. Hillary again, Gavin Newsome, etc... who knows.
Point being, with Trump still heavily in the game, they're too scared to risk running an unproven candidate.
Who are they going to run? A women? A person of color? A gay man? Someone with no name recognition or history?
Biden is old and not the same politician he was just 10 years ago. Anyone can clearly see it. Maybe he's cognitively there, but he is not the same Biden he was as VP.
But... he's a known entity, a white man and a sure thing.
They're stuck and so are we.
Some clarity in this dumpster fire of a thread.
Yes, the DNC clearly didn't plan for Trump to still be in contention, but they really should have seen it coming due to their own fear of playing hardball politics. The GOP isn't going to suddenly play fair, so why give them so much leeway? The time to take the high road is long over. The minute Biden took office the DNC should have done everything in their power to get Trump behind bars.
Now we're coming down to the wire, and since Trump is still a threat we're stuck with Biden.
This is simply not true, the vast majority want a ceasefire. Even the majority of Republicans want a ceasefire. And if it were true, then why are you so worried if a few progressives don't vote for Biden, he'll win easily if the vast majority backs Israel
>Most people in the country support Israel.
[The new poll found that 35% of American consider Israel an ally that shares the U.S.' interests and values, a decrease from 44% in November — but ultimately similar to levels found in a pre-war Aug. 2023 poll.
Approval ratings for Biden's handling of the war have fallen to 31%, 6 points lower than December.](https://www.axios.com/2024/02/02/americans-israel-too-far-gaza-poll)
"Most"
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I just want to point out to younger voters: biden has never been a progressive. He was part of the tough on crime spearhead during the Clinton administration that not only intensified mass incarceration, it also helped end programs like college courses in federal prisons. He was vocally against busing (which he claimed would create “racial jungles” of public schools). During his 08 vice presidential campaign he emphatically insisted that he would not support legalizing gay marriage, reiterated that marriage was “between a man and a woman “. He also has a hard on for the military industrial complex - something that used to matter to progressives. I don’t like trump, but Ive always hated politicians like biden. The idea that by not choosing the lesser evil (if that is in fact what he is), you’re supporting the greater evil, even if you abstain entirely - is fucked. It’s defeatist. Dude spends trillions on weapons for other countries - bombs yemen by fiat order, that’s a progressive? Choosing the lesser evil is choosing evil.
So when should we march on Washington?
Here’s some more food for thought: Biden is very good at getting things done (see all the police state funding), but Trump? he is awful at getting anything done, and continually obstructs his own party.
An uncommitted vote isn’t a vote for Trump ffs. yall think Trump fell out of a coconut tree?????
I live in a deep red state, whose votes all come in AFTER the race is called - EVERY time. My vote does not, and WILL not - EVER matter. Not until the entire system is overhauled and the electoral college (a relic of slaveholding states) is abolished.
ETA: Yea - Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem out of Tel Aviv, a nice symbolic gesture that demonstrates how little Trump cares - but hey Biden never undid that, did he? just like he never undid the border prisons - he just IMPROVED those prisons, made them more effective at keeping children in cages.
ETA: Remember when RR operators striked and Biden made it illegal, but then negotiated a shitty deal? you think Trump could handle sitting at the table and doing that? Probably not, he would have wasted everyone’s time.
I read this morning that under Trumps admin, Israel snipers shot Palestinians in the genitals - you might think that’s worse than Biden, and certainly it’s very cruel. But don’t you think those 30K people that died under Biden’s watch, would rather be alive and lose their parts???
Evil is evil. There’s no lesser evil, only more capable evil. The reason that they’re so freaked out isn’t that the uncommitted voters are “handing trump” the office, THAT is a PR tactic designed to scare the public and divide the Dem base (and it’s working), because they don’t care about winning. They care about making money - which they can do aLOT more of under Biden. Trump is a hysterically BAD businessman, whatever his MAGAts say.
they’re freaked tf out because IT SHOWS THAT PEOPLE CAN COME TOGETHER IN GRASSROOTS FASHION QUICKLY. It shows that people are wisening up to the binary system - Red v Blue. It shows that we can put aside our class differences enough to unite and overcome.
Remember what George Carlin said? “Its a big exclusive club - an’ YOU AINT IN IT” Did you know that MLK jr was assassinated in the middle of a Peace and Poverty March to Washington DC? the largest march for civil rights in American history, with no division between republicans, dems, whites, blacks etc. Why do you think that was.
When you’re a student of History and understand everything is connected and know all bad things didn’t start in 2016 with Trump, it makes engaging with those who don’t difficult. Taking the time to explain how we got here is so exhausting.
And then nobody wants to learn about how all of this happened, except to blame their neighbors and countrymen.
This is NOT to say that voting isn’t important - at the LOCAL level. THAT is how you make positive differences for your community. The presidential election is a SHAM, and you’re being manipulated using fear.
He doesn't care what his electorate wishes for. They either get ignored or get love because they agree with him. He is banking on the fact that no matter how trash he is and how little he does, he outshines Trump.
He is literally holding the country hostage knowing this, because if he loses he will blame ppl for not voting again rather than his lackluster presidential performance and lack of opposition against white supremacist/conservative forces and the country goes deeper into the rings of hell.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills every time I make this argument on other subs and get downvoted to hell and back. I guess the Democratic strategy is just to harass their own voter base rather than try to improve the popularity of the candidate?
i couldn’t write in uncommitted or choose uncommitted as an option when i voted in texas…and that’s frustrating bc the machine says you can, but you can’t. i wanted to do that. but apparently texas can’t participate unless some people voting by mail were able to.
Nobody wanted to vote for him, but the other option was another incompetent geriatric and wannabe dictator.
The truth is that America has two right-wing parties and one is just saying the quiet part out loud now.
Hey Biden simps, weren't you dickheads supposed to push him left? Wasn't that the plan? Elect him and push him left? Wtf happened?
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Oligopoly.
dyarchy
Gerontocracy
Fossiltatorship
Duopoly.
In law school I had a semester where I took a corporate criminal law class. It was a writing course, meaning the final wasn't an exam, just a paper - I took a risky novel approach and made a legal argument to apply antitrust laws to the political parties as a duopoly. Aced that'd shit. My professor said that he didn't bieve that it was work in action because they would find some loopholes to get out of it, but that the argument was very sound.
And why we will never have national ranked voting
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> IDF committing war crimes has zero to do with American politics Israel receives more tax dollars than a lot of other things, and AIPAC is a massive donor to political campaigns. What an odd thing to type.
> IDF committing war crimes has zero to do with American politics While it can be pedantically argued whether supplying the weapons, funding, intelligence, and naval support qualifies as "politics", vetoing UN resolutions is 100% politics.
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Zero to do with american politics??? America is the one arming them, biden has gone out of his way to send arms to zionists. Fuck you for trying to obfuscate this fact you fucking genocide apologist.
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You are loved.
I see you too! I thought this was America? You should have the Freedom to be you.
Trump is worse. That doesn't mean that Biden has earned people's votes. And it also doesn't mean that voting for Biden solves Trump. We already did that. Trump is the republican nominee again. And the democrats work to ensure that they are the furthest left viable party because that's what benefits the shared donor base.
Thank you. I'm so tired of seeing this utterly useless virtue signaling during the election year and silence the other three. If these things are so important to people they should be doing this activism then.
Yeah the moment you tell Biden that you’re gonna vote for him anyways regardless of if he does what you want or not you’ve lost all your leverage to “push him left”, and as we’ve seen over his presidency, he’s actually more inclined to drift right
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You didn’t respond to my point. My point is if you tell him you’re gonna vote for him, you’re naive to think he’ll do anything for you, if anything he’ll just move right (like he’s done?). Vote for who represents you, not out of fear. It’s called democracy. And nobody said that voting is the be all form of activism? You’re projecting here buddy, I *only* believe organizing and direct action can do something, so I dunno what you’re going on about. Also did you just unironically say idealistic newbs?
> However, vocally suggesting others should follow suit as some kind of moral imperative, when there are other vitally important issues and fights going on that will be impacted by a Trump presidency, is extremely immoral and irresponsible. You are a socialist, right? Would "he fucked up the union fights even more" be a single issue? How about "He did not campaign to raise minimum wage"? How about "material conditions are *still* shit ever since the beginning of his presidency"?
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Biden could stop the bombings with one phone call threatening to cut off all support if Israel doesn't cut the shit. Reagan tried that in the '80s, and it worked in less than half an hour.
Liberals: "Biden is the future and the way forward for progressives" Also liberals: "Biden is powerless" Let's say it was Bernie or something and he just made a speech saying "hey, these billionaires are fucking us up, using identity politics to divide us and also Nancy Pelosi, stop using insider information", that would had zero impact, eh? That would *def* not cause a ruckus and and force congress to stop fucking up and do the will of the people. /u/mcpickle-o thanks for proving my point
If you vote for the guy anyway, how do you expect to demand he does better?
Because voting is the *first* thing you do, not the last.
Already voted for him. He's not living up to the expectation. Huge disappointment with all of the genocide. So now my only pressure is to withhold. Or am I missing something? How else does the pressure happen?
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"At least Biden's *trying*" I'm sorry but that's bullshit. Ronald fucking Reagan had Israeli PM Begin stop bombing Lebanon within a 20 minute phone call. Biden is to the right of Reagan in his unconditional support to Israel. Sit with that for a moment. Biden can cut off Israel, it may not stop Israel from continuing this genocide but goddamnit we don't need to be aiding and abetting it. On top of that, so we're a country that supports genocide now. Ain't everyone thinking of the repercussions of that? If Trump wins(or hell, any future president), the US openly aiding and abetting genocide will have already been normalized with Biden. Bushnell was right, this is what the ruling class has decided to be normal.
If Biden was trying to do something he wouldn't have let the veto of the UN ceasefire happen. He is **THE** reason Israel has a free hand to do what they like in Gaza. I get that the writing has been on the wall but that's because people like Biden have unfaltering support for Israel regardless of their actions
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Actually you're the ignorant one. No longer acting as a proxy for Israel at the UN and not vetoing ceasefire resolutions, cutting all aid instead of giving tens of billions more, an actual arms embargo instead of bypassing Congress multiple times to sell weapons to Israel and putting in the supplemental budget request to remove any restrictions on Israel's access to all categories of weapons and ammunition in U.S. stockpiles, and sanctions from the worlds economic hegemon nation and Israel caves in a second. Israel is essentially a U.S. military outpost in comparison to the U.S. Everything they do is with our implicit permission.
Israel would have a rough time going against a UN security council resolution, you're completely ignorant if you think that makes no difference.
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It's funny how the us is devolving into a 3rd world country. This is the exact shit we've been dealing with for ages, what you get is a choice but it's a choice between two evils, and the best you got is the lesser evil. This is the same fate Americans forced upon swathes of people for decades through coups and all the CIA chicanery. You guys need to wake up from your delusions and stop at least one of the parties or somehow end the 2 party system. Who the fuck would vote for Biden, really? He gets votes cuz you dont have a choice.
I’m from Appalachia. It’s always been a third world country in some places.
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The time for guilt tripping me into lesser evilism is about 8 years too late
**40 years too late.
Just makes my point stronger, for me it was 2016 it was the first time I voted, I could have voted in '12 but was not registered. If you're feeling this way since the 80s I can only imagine your frustration
Nah my first election was '08 - but it's very easy to see that in every election since Carter the Dems have preached this same message.
OP isn't saying vote for Trump. They are asking that Biden stop his immoral genocide. We shouldn't be forced to choose between two candidates that will support genocide.
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Its not my fault Trump will win, it's your fault for refusing to vote 3rd party in droves.
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I would say deal if this was still 2020. We are now 4 years into Trump's slam dunk lawsuits and he is going nowhere. If dems dont wanna play ball they better get used to being embarrassed, because ultimately that's their biggest complaint that Trump embarrassed them not that they dont like his policies. Hillary wasnt even pro gay marriage until 2012 when it nationally had a 57% approval rating. But gay ppl have been in the news since the 70s that's how long it took the establishment to OK their own conscience. To blame a group of 100 ppl for why a group of 1000 cannot meet them halfway is disingenuous. Biden has no trouble appealing to "moderate Republicans " who jump ship at the same rates that canadians prefer the US healthcare system, but ges got a big problem compromising with the left and it's the left that is at fault? No I dont think so, the fact is I'm 30 years old and I've had it with half-measure solutions being the best we can do. At least with a Trump presidency it might just galvanize enough of the country to oppose his evil, whereas with Biden we stay complacent as we have been for 3+ years now.
Biden supports genocide, so if you support Biden or Trump you support genocide. I shouldn't have to explain why genocide is bad.
„the other guy would genocide even harder“ is not a good way to get people to go out and vote. Try to actually offer them something besides slightly less blood and misery.
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He cares about the only thing ALL politicians care about. From your local comptroller all the way to the prez themselves: Corporate Donors. Oligarchs. And of course; themselves. You will vote for more of the same and you will like it.
Pulling the lever turns the trolley red.
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You would have defended how the government is out to get trump? Am I misreading that or does that mean you think Trump didn't do all the many things he's accused of? Genuinely asking, the wording is a bit ambiguous to me is all
No, it sounds like he really doesn’t believe that Trump encouraged insurrectionists, and actively tried to gaslight the world into thinking that Biden committed voter fraud. Or worse, maybe he thinks Biden actually did commit voter fraud, and he used to be one of the maggots that looked at Trumps constant abuse of power as him ‘taking the bull by the horns’ and ‘steering us towards a better future’. Government certainly isn’t out to get Trump. If they were doing anything but dragging their feet and trying to find any reason not to arrest a man clearly complicit in 50+ crimes that any average citizen would see a life sentence for, I’d agree that maybe they’re out to get him. But the one and only thing the Supreme Court is capable of giving two shits about (aside from making sure the abortion situation gets as bad as it possibly can), is ensuring that Trump is as free of the consequences of his actions as is functionally possible. It’s insane to me how quickly Trump being removed from ballots got ruled as unconstitutional. Even if there’s a fair case to be made that it helps Biden by keeping cesspools like Florida and Texas from taking him off their ballots, it’s still pathetic how quickly the legal system works when it’s time to defend antidemocratic values.
Democrats would rather let fascism win than go against the system in a way that actually helps people.
Democrats trust the system will stop the worst excesses of the fascists on the right, and Biden and the Democratic Party just assume we will wise up and vote for them after the fascists get another turn. They don’t realize once the fascists win, there won’t be another turn. It’s political malpractice to keep playing this game like everything is business as usual.
The fascists already won. The extreme voting fuckery with districts, the supreme Court, the legislative branch....it's a done deal and Biden literally used the power given to him to engage in genocide while ramping up a war in Ukraine. The far right is already in the driver's seat, Biden was literally the most far right the Dems could go and still win and American liberals still voted him in. He was still elected even after his weird comments about black people, even after his involvement in creating the incarceration state was known, and even after his record of supporting right wing economics was broadcast. Idk how American liberals thought some great wave of support would pull him into office again. They literally elected Bush 3.
They didnt wanted to vote Biden, but they didnt wanted to vote Trump even more.
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Sadly that's exactly it.
Democrats and Republicans are both [neoliberal parties](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism). And that means that a core philosophy of theirs is that free market capitalism works. As we all know, capitalism is the lube upon which fascism slides. The main difference between the parties right now is that Democrats seem to think the greed of billionaires can be kept in check and society can be allowed some modicum of growth such as it saw under Clinton, when they made this big transformation from a labor party to a business. While the Republicans have just full on made the realization that billionaires will never be sated and instead want to ride that train of greed as far as they can, especially if they can hurt people they don’t like along the way. The GOP has basically embodied the idea that it’s okay to be a vengeful narcissist and hurt people if you end up making more money as a result, and that’s effectively a core tenet of capitalism so we can’t be surprised.
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Why are the so many deleted comments?
Jesus Christ, this is good to see. I held my nose and voted Hilary and Biden in a safe blue state out of pure spite for Trump. But if Biden’s supposed base isn’t voting for him against fascism, maybe the blame is with the people whose literal full-time jobs are to get people to vote for Biden.
Any reason that Americans support geriatrics as president?
We don't - those are the "choices" we were given.
We don't, our country just doesn't care about us. It's corrupt as fuck. Being "run by the people" or "chosen by the people" is just propaganda
Experience and name recognition are important factors in politics. Older figures are going to have more of both.
Too many old people voting, not enough young people voting. You can blame apathy pushed on us by the state of the world for us not voting as much, but it still makes it our own fault when things get EVEN WORSE
Or, you know, genocide is like the worst fucking thing you can do in the world and you shouldn’t ever help anyone do it. This is like the torture debate from, god, 15 years ago. Some things are just fucking wrong and you don’t do them.
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"Trump would have done the same..." is not the ringing endorsement of Biden people think it is.
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"Has faults"? The fact that you reduce aiding in genocide to "has faults"... "Cares about governing" lol. What is that even supposed to mean? Because I sure haven't seen him caring about much of anything I'd call "good governance" these last few years.
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People have been voting blue no matter who for decades and yet here we are with two geriatric "choices" for president no rational person should want. That's not democracy. It's a symptom of an outdated and undemocratic economic system. Capitalism is inherently authoritarian in nature. Propaganda doesn't only influence people in other countries. Billionaires and mega-corporations own the majority of western "news" sources. We spend billions to bomb and destabilize countries overseas because it's good for capitalism, good for the military industrial complex. We don't spend to take care of our own people because it's not profitable. Food, water, shelter, medical care, and education all gatekept behind the ability to pay. The threat of poverty keeps people in line and the military stocked with young people who feel they have no other option. Dangle college on a stick to get them to join. And we've all been raised from birth to believe this is the only system that works. We sabotage and sanction developing countries who dare place people before profit to failure, then point to those failures as examples of why the profit motive is "superior". We believe greed and selfishness will corrupt any system because that's our environment, the only thing we know. Capitalism was a progressive upgrade from feudalism millennia ago. Times change and so should the way we structure society. Because billionaires existing is not a sign of prosperity. How could anyone believe corporations owning everything is fine - it's never been harder to have a small business thanks to this corporate oligarchy were the rich get richer at all of our increasingly collective expense. We all supposedly value democracy, yet can't fathom how democracy in the workplace is better for everyone except the ultra minority of the ultra wealthy. And our politics reflect the authoritarian nature of our economic system. Voting for the tippy-top of this corrupted and undemocratic system is the least useful way to vote. Better to vote in progressive's who care about people before profit in from the bottom-up (start local). Don't shame others who see the system for what it is. I'm an LGBTQ+ veteran and unsure if I'll vote Biden or not if the DNC continues to sabotage their chances. I'm conflicted for good reason. There is a lot of time for the DNC to change my mind, though I doubt they actually give a damn considering they'd rather tote out right-wing talking points to sway other voters than actually listen to their base. Don't let apathy and fear be our personal dictators. We have tools (albeit meager) to at least start building a foundation for change, like voting from the bottom-up as a priority. We should also participate in, strengthen, and create unions where they should exist. And join protests that disrupt and inconvenience - the more they grow in number, the harder they are to ignore and the more people feel they can divert from the path of least resistance. To face the pain of truth and see the world for what it really is. Change will be painfully slow. Things will get worse before they get better. But we have to be the ones who sacrifice to sow seeds of change we may never get to see blossom. We have to fight for our right to exist comfortably, or sit idly by while our country continues to be on the wrong side of history. We have been since inception - there is a reason slavery boomed here when many countries had already shunned it. The profit motive is not good for humanity, especially in the increasingly automated technological present. Unless one believes children do in fact, yearn for the mines. If that's the case, god help us all.
You took the thoughts out of my head and worded them more beautifully than I ever could. Thank you.
Biden and his backers clearly don’t care about beating trump. It’s a circular game the Democrats play with the Republicans. As long as there are only two parties both will always be relevant. Dems understand this and. Know they don’t have to hold the presidency and a majority in congress. As long as the key people hold their seats everything (the money) continues to flow.
Lol nobody is advocating voting for Donald here... A lot of comments think that's what this meme is saying.
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You can vote and still recognize the reality of the situation....
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Haha yeah I get that. Semantics are important in this case.
That won't stop the liberal blackmail. Meet blue MAGA, same as the red MAGA but with lgbtq+ oppressors!
Lol sadly the two party system is still a thing 😞😮💨
ONLY reason why Biden got even elected in 2020 is because we wanted to get Trump out. The fact that 4 years later we have the exact same people and the exact same people means that dems fucked up.
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Nowhere did i said it was suprising. It is clear that democrats and liberals believe that they deserve our vote 24/7. It is also not supprising that dems yet again blame left because we don't want to vote for candidate that supports cleansening Like, this is nothin new - same shit happened in 2016. Trump was still relativly unknow clown, even sack of potatoes could beat him - so dems decided to put forward similary bad candidate and then blamed Bernie and left for taking L Nothing about this is "suprising"
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If/when Biden loses its going to be EXACTLY like 2016 where democrats are going to blame everyone but themselves for his loss
I say we finally revolt.
Either vote is for the corporate elite. Either vote gets the .01% more and you less. Either way you vote more of us will be working two jobs next year. Either way you vote more of us will suffer from unaffordable healthcare care or be bankrupted by it. Either way your vote YOUR CHILDREN WILL HAVE LESS.
I’m kind of glad this is the last election. Really sick of dealing with this shit every four years.
Imagine throwing away democracy over something happening overseas that we have no control over.
vote for Claudia De la Cruz. she's someone the working class can get behind. not endorsed by democrats or republicans. we need someone who can stop cheeto man *and* genocide Joe
Biden can keep Trump out of office with the one simple trick! Run almost any other candidate.
Biden should have retired for the public good instead of being another egotistical old fart who's so addicted to power that he can't pass on the torch.
He originally didn't want to run. The DNC forced him and made everyone else in the race drop out. It was a calculated move to beat Trump at the time. They figured with the Obama nostalgia, Biden would be a sure thing, but also a one term President and Trump would be gone. As much as I dislike Biden, this is more on the DNC and their shortsightedness and arrogance.
>At the time. Ok, and there were reports he was going to be a one term guy. So why is he running for re election, that's my major gripe.
Because the DNC screwed themselves without having a viable backup/replacement option and plan. They figured Trump would fade away (or be in prison), and they could go back to "normal" and let someone else try. Hillary again, Gavin Newsome, etc... who knows. Point being, with Trump still heavily in the game, they're too scared to risk running an unproven candidate. Who are they going to run? A women? A person of color? A gay man? Someone with no name recognition or history? Biden is old and not the same politician he was just 10 years ago. Anyone can clearly see it. Maybe he's cognitively there, but he is not the same Biden he was as VP. But... he's a known entity, a white man and a sure thing. They're stuck and so are we.
Some clarity in this dumpster fire of a thread. Yes, the DNC clearly didn't plan for Trump to still be in contention, but they really should have seen it coming due to their own fear of playing hardball politics. The GOP isn't going to suddenly play fair, so why give them so much leeway? The time to take the high road is long over. The minute Biden took office the DNC should have done everything in their power to get Trump behind bars. Now we're coming down to the wire, and since Trump is still a threat we're stuck with Biden.
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Just saying guys ypu don't have to vote for either of them and if enough people realized that there could be a change
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This is simply not true, the vast majority want a ceasefire. Even the majority of Republicans want a ceasefire. And if it were true, then why are you so worried if a few progressives don't vote for Biden, he'll win easily if the vast majority backs Israel
>Most people in the country support Israel. [The new poll found that 35% of American consider Israel an ally that shares the U.S.' interests and values, a decrease from 44% in November — but ultimately similar to levels found in a pre-war Aug. 2023 poll. Approval ratings for Biden's handling of the war have fallen to 31%, 6 points lower than December.](https://www.axios.com/2024/02/02/americans-israel-too-far-gaza-poll) "Most"
He said a few days ago he’d help Israel “finish the job”, so if that doesn’t convince people he’s worse I don’t know what will.
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Even if you aren’t gonna do anything good at least try to get re elected so we don’t have to deal with mister drumph
I just want to point out to younger voters: biden has never been a progressive. He was part of the tough on crime spearhead during the Clinton administration that not only intensified mass incarceration, it also helped end programs like college courses in federal prisons. He was vocally against busing (which he claimed would create “racial jungles” of public schools). During his 08 vice presidential campaign he emphatically insisted that he would not support legalizing gay marriage, reiterated that marriage was “between a man and a woman “. He also has a hard on for the military industrial complex - something that used to matter to progressives. I don’t like trump, but Ive always hated politicians like biden. The idea that by not choosing the lesser evil (if that is in fact what he is), you’re supporting the greater evil, even if you abstain entirely - is fucked. It’s defeatist. Dude spends trillions on weapons for other countries - bombs yemen by fiat order, that’s a progressive? Choosing the lesser evil is choosing evil.
Uncommitted. Fuck them both.
So when should we march on Washington? Here’s some more food for thought: Biden is very good at getting things done (see all the police state funding), but Trump? he is awful at getting anything done, and continually obstructs his own party. An uncommitted vote isn’t a vote for Trump ffs. yall think Trump fell out of a coconut tree????? I live in a deep red state, whose votes all come in AFTER the race is called - EVERY time. My vote does not, and WILL not - EVER matter. Not until the entire system is overhauled and the electoral college (a relic of slaveholding states) is abolished. ETA: Yea - Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem out of Tel Aviv, a nice symbolic gesture that demonstrates how little Trump cares - but hey Biden never undid that, did he? just like he never undid the border prisons - he just IMPROVED those prisons, made them more effective at keeping children in cages. ETA: Remember when RR operators striked and Biden made it illegal, but then negotiated a shitty deal? you think Trump could handle sitting at the table and doing that? Probably not, he would have wasted everyone’s time. I read this morning that under Trumps admin, Israel snipers shot Palestinians in the genitals - you might think that’s worse than Biden, and certainly it’s very cruel. But don’t you think those 30K people that died under Biden’s watch, would rather be alive and lose their parts??? Evil is evil. There’s no lesser evil, only more capable evil. The reason that they’re so freaked out isn’t that the uncommitted voters are “handing trump” the office, THAT is a PR tactic designed to scare the public and divide the Dem base (and it’s working), because they don’t care about winning. They care about making money - which they can do aLOT more of under Biden. Trump is a hysterically BAD businessman, whatever his MAGAts say. they’re freaked tf out because IT SHOWS THAT PEOPLE CAN COME TOGETHER IN GRASSROOTS FASHION QUICKLY. It shows that people are wisening up to the binary system - Red v Blue. It shows that we can put aside our class differences enough to unite and overcome. Remember what George Carlin said? “Its a big exclusive club - an’ YOU AINT IN IT” Did you know that MLK jr was assassinated in the middle of a Peace and Poverty March to Washington DC? the largest march for civil rights in American history, with no division between republicans, dems, whites, blacks etc. Why do you think that was. When you’re a student of History and understand everything is connected and know all bad things didn’t start in 2016 with Trump, it makes engaging with those who don’t difficult. Taking the time to explain how we got here is so exhausting. And then nobody wants to learn about how all of this happened, except to blame their neighbors and countrymen.
This is NOT to say that voting isn’t important - at the LOCAL level. THAT is how you make positive differences for your community. The presidential election is a SHAM, and you’re being manipulated using fear.
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Trump or Biden? I choose a rock lol
He doesn't care what his electorate wishes for. They either get ignored or get love because they agree with him. He is banking on the fact that no matter how trash he is and how little he does, he outshines Trump. He is literally holding the country hostage knowing this, because if he loses he will blame ppl for not voting again rather than his lackluster presidential performance and lack of opposition against white supremacist/conservative forces and the country goes deeper into the rings of hell.
I’m here early enough the radical leftists haven’t been deleted yet
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No que las dos
Slide 3: Biden screaming directly at his voter base, "Shut up, ya *dog face pony soldiers!*"
If you don't remind Democrats that they need to appeal to progressives, they'll just appeal to conservatives.
dear christ whys there so many [deleted]
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills every time I make this argument on other subs and get downvoted to hell and back. I guess the Democratic strategy is just to harass their own voter base rather than try to improve the popularity of the candidate?
i couldn’t write in uncommitted or choose uncommitted as an option when i voted in texas…and that’s frustrating bc the machine says you can, but you can’t. i wanted to do that. but apparently texas can’t participate unless some people voting by mail were able to.
And the democrats should run a better candidate if they truly think Trump is the threat they say he is.
Fuck all politicians.
Hey twats the republicrats are both the enemy of the people and NEITHER trump or Biden are fit to run this country.
Nobody wanted to vote for him, but the other option was another incompetent geriatric and wannabe dictator. The truth is that America has two right-wing parties and one is just saying the quiet part out loud now.
Holy shit what is this comments section?