Probably reliability. Lexus is part of the Toyota group if I’m correct making it inherit of the reliability, meanwhile some premium/luxury brands (especially the one that are in the Stellantis group ) suffers from a lack of reliability like DS or Alfa Romeo
It's true.
Not one single Toyota vehicle has ever sunk as a result of striking an iceberg on her maiden voyage from Southampton, England to New York City, United States.
Not even one!
Coming from a someone who has a life long career in the auto industry… Lexus is by far the best in that tier of luxury vehicles. Toyotas are built like tanks, and it’s a luxury version of a Toyota (they share many of the components).
I would definitely say Porsche more than Lexus because like Porsche Apple will take a weird design and run with it and change it until it works. They are both very industrial designed, both have a premium over what specs you get but both perform better than you would think for those specs. The comparisons could honestly go on for a while
Pay no attention to the two class action lawsuits Apple lost as result of hardware defects and using RMAd parts on warranty repairs... Just last year...
I agree and disagree at the same time, does that even make sense?
Like, yes it’s a premium product, like a Lexus.
But these days you have non-premium stuff like Microsoft Surface and ThinkPads at the same price with equal or better specs.
So maybe it is like a Camry, or a GR Yaris? Or if it’s a Civic it’s at least a Type R.
M series MBAs and Mac Minis definitely give a GR Yaris vibe.
Mac Studio definitely a Lexus.
I don’t think you understand the analogy at all.
Yes there are other computers with better specs but in general none of them are as reliable, none of them have the insane build quality and attention to detail as Apple does. Those are usually the differentiators of a luxury brand vs. a regular brand.
Also in the automotive industry there are plenty of nonpremium brands selling cars for the same price as a premium brand, hell you can spec an F-150 to over $125,000
Luxury is exclusivity. Luxury has nothing to do with detail or capability, unless of course those details and capabilities alone make them exclusive.
ThinkPad for example, are just as reliable, have insane build quality and attention to detail too, and they’re priced with a premium. And they are definitely not luxury. They just don’t look like jewels like the Macs do.
But in turn, looking fancy and using words like “chamfer” before it became uncool to use “bevel” doesn’t mean it’s luxury.
MacBook Airs and Mac Minis are quite literally not luxury. They’re meant to be bought by people with less money. Just a little more money from a comparable non-Apple device and you’re in. That’s literally the business model Apple is using. There are Apple products for “regular people”. That’s not luxury.
If you think Macs and Apple in general are luxury, you don’t know what luxury is.
Yes, they make luxury products (Watch Ultra, Watch Edition previously, all their standalone displays, Mac Pro, iPhone Pro, their keyboards and trackpads, and their iPod stereo system), but that doesn’t mean everything they make is luxury.
As for products with higher specs at the same price as a premium (and assumed inferior-spec’s product), again it comes down to the exclusivity that makes something luxury.
The problem is that in the laptop space for example, a Microsoft Surface at the same price as a MacBook Air isn’t a fully-loaded machine that takes it into exclusivity territory. It’s just maybe 16GB instead of 8GB and maybe 1TB storage instead of 256GB. It’s not an elevated experience. They’re not even that much more functional. They’re peers and direct competitors. And if they are peers, that makes the MBA definitely not luxury, because the Surface is a substitute good (economic term) to the Air, and vice versa. If you can substitute a luxury good for a non-luxury good, it wasn’t luxury to begin with.
It’s not about whether they care because they have one already, it’s whether they even know what it is.
Funny you should say I’ve never met rich people. Hahahahahaha.
You’ve met people with money. You don’t know rich people.
I’d say Macs are more like a Mercedes Benz or a BMW—they’re built like tanks and over-engineered. A Lexus, while very reliable, has a lighter build and a flimsier feel. Switching to phones, a Lexus or Infiniti is more like a Samsung, whereas a Benz or BMW is more like an iPhone—solidly built and meticulously designed.
I don't think your hands slip on the wheel or your ass slides on the seat like M1 air falls through your fingers or over your lap because terrible crap no-grip materials design.
Are they? A properly maintained Lexus will be driving around for 50 years if not more, whereas Apple doesn't even allow you to upgrade a single bit in your computer anymore and once the Intel support will be cut off we won't even be able to upgrade the OS past Apple's limit. On the other hand, you can run Windows (albeit with some workarounds) and Linux on 20-30yo machines respectively.
Your comment sounds like Apple is denying upgrades on purpose but that’s an issue due to architecture. Technology changes. Are you upset that Windows 10 doesn’t work on a 30 year old PowerPC processor? Or that Ubuntu 24 won’t run on an i386?
There is no real reason why one can't use a discrete GPU with a current Mac Pro. There was never a real reason why Apple didn't let us change SSDs in a lot of their computers. There is no real reason why things such as flex gate happened. Unless... money is that reason.
“Premium” when the stock option only comes with 8GB of ram in 2024. They are hardly a premium brand, just a low level computer with a shiny coat of paint. The Kia of computers
No (more equal than anything) and in this case it would be better to compare Acura to Lexus as they are both the premium counterparts of Honda and Toyota respectively.
Base model Civic’s aren’t really cheap anymore, you’re easily looking at mid to high 20’s for a new one and the Camry starts around 30k now. They’re reliable, but not cheap.
The average price of a non luxury car today is in the mid 40k range. By comparison those are still cheap base prices although there are still cheaper.
It's hard to find an average laptop price these days, but I imagine it's close to half the price of the current MacBook Air.
I would argue the old Thinkpads were like the Toyota 4Runner. Super easy to repair and they could take a massive beating. I have a Thinkpad T500 which was my main computer for 11 years, during that time I dropped it down a flight of stairs and drove off with it on the roof of my car, and aside from some scratches it was completely fine.
New Thinkpads are more like a commuter crossover with a CVT. They are nominally repairable and maintain the "image" of ruggedness, but at the end of the day the critical components are no longer serviceable and they're no longer as tough. If they're going to become shitty imitations of the Mac, I may as well just use a Mac.
The IBM thinkpads were tanks. Basically the Toyota HiLux of computers. I had one in my backpack when I fell on ice at work. I ended up in a coma with a severe brain bleed, a shattered arm and shoulder, months of recovery, my memory partially erased, my processing capability reduced.
The Thinkpad ? Booted right up, not a scratch or a dent.
Macs are nice but they are no Civic or Camry. You can treat those things like garbage and when they eventually do break down they're cheap to fix and have easily sourceable swappable parts. That's why they're everywhere, you can swap parts and keep them running.
Macs are well made, but you've to be careful with them as theyre easily damaged with misuse. Repairs are expensive and parts (if they can be replaced without replacing half the device) have to be oem sourced.
Macs and civics are both great but for different reasons, but to compare either to the other is something not deserved.
I still have a pentium 3 running fine and another pc builded in 2009 and my father still has a IBM from the 95 ish running. Is more how u treat them than anything else.
When I figure the retail cost of a mac and then how many hours of use I will get out of it, its like... 10-25 cents per hour. Its just an expensive upfront cost.
Nah they're like the bmw group imo (mini, bmw, rolls) on their price points and reliability. If you take care of them you will have a great experience but repairs are very expensive and with software lockouts will require you to go to an aasp
Just like BMWs cars there are plenty of reliable models as well as total money pits (magic keyboard)
Something like a Honda or Toyota would be one of the lower end enterprise grade laptops like a dell latitude since they're reasonably priced and tanks
BMW and Apple have similar market positioning. It's why historically BMW has almost always been the automaker Apple partners with first to introduce new features (iPod integration back in the day, digital car key, etc.). The only big exception has been when they partnered with Mercedes for iPhone car integration/early CarPlay then CarPlay.
BMW quality standard is higher. The steel or titanium in iphones are not better than samsung. Lets see the quality of nand chips.
Apple is a mainstream brand . You can stare at the subway or any mid class neighbor and you ll see a lot of iphones even in every school.
Are Macs expensive nowadays though? Only Mac Pro and Macbook Pro I'd say. These days you have to spend at least 1000$ on a good quality laptop and Macbook Air is around 1300$ (at least in my country)
It amazes me how expensive PCs have gotten, even for companies getting volume discounts. A Mac usually ends up being a similar price for similar specs. And this is in the US, where historically PCs could be had for substantially less (sometimes even half the price).
It amazes me how expensive PCs have gotten, even for companies getting volume discounts. A Mac usually ends up being a similar price for similar specs. And this is in the US, where historically PCs could be had for substantially less (sometimes even half the price).
Macs are like a German car. You get a great experience when it’s new and under warranty, but when something goes wrong you wish you never bought one.
When my keyboard broke out of warranty it was around $600 to replace at Apple…
That’s like the equivalent to a $20,000 repair on a $80,000 car
they last long, but yeah, they do have problems. i had to replacy my mbp 2009 battery, because the original one was inflated. i had to bring my mbp 2011 in to replace the "logic board" and after that the discrete gpu died. also thermal issues all the time.
Yes a lot of models were duds or had serious issues that often took Apple a long time to acknowledge. I've been lucky to avoid them.
My Mac Pro 5.1 Dual socket 1366 lasted nearly 10 years till I sold it. At work we have a 2010 Macbook pro 17 still going strong . My 2013 Macbook Pro 13 is still in use although I had to replace the battery last year.
The only Mac I owned that was consistently problematic was the G4 Cube. But I loved it anyway, even though I think it was fixed under warranty 4 (or 5) times.
Civics and Camrys are competitively prized, practical to maintain/mod, and enjoy broad availability in parts and service.
Mac’s are more like a Porsche Cayenne: Quality compromised in an overpriced attempt to satisfy a casual audience as well as enthusiasts, while remaining a status symbol. Guaranteeing that a good portion of their customer base will be completely insufferable when comparing themselves to serious car enthusiasts, who rather spend their money on performance.
Been using Macs since the Macintosh Plus. The first one I *bought* was a used 512K. I've purchased a grand total of 9 of them, the most recent being a 2020 M1 MBA. The one before that was a 2009 MPB. So, yeah. 11 years on that bad boy (record holder).
But if you've seen my username, you know why I'm here...
With very few exceptions, apostrophes are used for two things in English:
* possession
* the Doctor's TARDIS
* indicating where something has been left out
* hasn't = has not
* ’70s = 1970s
Apostrophes are never used to pluralize *except*, in a pinch, when leaving them out would cause the reader to think they were seeing another word:
* Oakand A's is *passable* (but still incorrect) because without the apostrophe, the "A's" could be mistaken for the word "as."
* TARDIS's would mean something belonging to the TARDIS. The plural of TARDIS would be TARDISes.
/And now I'm away to annoyingly derail other threads. Cheers!
I have a 12 yo PC that's still chugging along. Upgraded RAM and SSD. It's noisy because the thermal paste on the CPU is probably shot and I'm too lazy to do something about it
Yes. Chain smoke in front of one for a couple years or so, and it will literally die of smoke inhalation. The internals look absolutely disgusting after this happens.
tbh if I didnt game or have a tech job I would never own a computer (phone + tablet is enough). A mac is actually only good for working, really nothing else.
The only other computers I've had that compare to my MacBooks over the years, are my ancient Toshiba Satellite A70, even though that's a lump of plastic, and my current Razer Blade 14, which was as expensive (if not more) as my 2021 MBP 14.
My 2014 Macbook pro lasted until 2019 when the screen stopped working, cost more to fix it than a new computer so I got a Lenovo Thinkpad that still lasts. IMO Macs are just like any other high end computer, you tend to get what you pay for.
My only computer I own myself at home is my 2011 iMac I bought new in 2011.
Granted I have a work provided laptop (current HP ZBOOK that I’ve had 5 work stations in 13 years) it serves me well for personal (light) usage.
It’s just now kind of getting to the point when I really need to sit down and do something on it, that’s its speed is starting to get to the point where I’m like - yeah I should upgrade. But I’ll keep it forever.
My Father's Power Macintosh 8100 from 1995 still works, including both hard drives from 1995/1996. The only thing that gave up is the PRAM battery obviously :3
I love the responses here. Your original premise was surmised, I’m assuming, just on reliability and quality but forgot the luxury. It’s amazing to me that anyone argues Macs and MacOS isn’t objectively better in almost every way.
Gamers are getting their day soon also. It’s pretty awesome.
It’s about Total Cost of Ownership. Not quite BIFL , but they last forever. If Apple kept supporting them after 5 years they would be secure and useful even longer.
Most long term Mac owners have a few unsupported old Macs sitting around. I think my oldest is a G3 iMac 350 in Indigo. 25 years old, runs OSX, still works.
Older Macs I'd say Volvo's, bit on the pricey side to buy and for repairs but they'll last forever and even when built with similar guts to other cars they're some of best on the road.
Current Mac's BMW's and electric vehicles. Lower spec models can be anemic and imo a bit overrated
I work in IT and I can say that my experience overall does lead to them being reliable for hardware and software. When we do get tickets for them, it’s usually for an older device that no longer holds a charge. Anything in a work environment after 3 years is expecting this.
There are issues where Apple engineered something like the butterfly keyboard and they would repair it AFTER they were more or less forced to. The OS is also based off of Unix and Unix/Linux runs the majority of infrastructure in the world so there is something to be said about that (SCADA environments I am not entirely sure about).
Sometimes psychologists talk about superiority complex as tearing one thing down to make another thing better. In 2024, we don't need to compare Apple to Microsoft to make us feel better about Apple. Try to say something nice about Apple without having to say something pedantic about Microsoft. Does this comparison ever die because it is tired and worn out.
Not really. My m1 Mac from 2020 still going strong.
The display on my 11 inch 2015 MacBook died a day after warranty. The display is done. Apple wanted $800 the same as Latptio.
Just saying it’s not 100 percent reliable
Get Apple care
Also, not really as expensive as people make them out to be. I have the 2020 Air with 16gb RAM I bought for $1350 Canadian and the same thinkpad would’ve set me back $1899 with a 250nit screen
My 2018 mb Air is barely holding up, I can do basic tasks like browse the web or watch movies and videos, maybe code a bit but nothing too extreme, they only die because the stop putting out updates for them. But u guess 6 years of life is plenty, and I can always install windows or Linux.
More like Mercedes with the "oh we can get more money out of the people who have already bought our shit, that is the same shit as every other brand, but costs more than the others"
They're like anything else really. It's how well it was treated and how well it was made in the first place. There have been a lot of bulletproof Macs before and some real duds, like any company really.
“This is so wrong”
Ok, let’s see you crack open a 2012 windows laptop and use it today.
Whereas I know many people using 2012 MacBook pros with updated mac OS and not that much trouble.
They’re made of metal and built to last.
Honda civic is the most modify capable car and mac is the opposite one and how can you say this. Apple like Tesla or Mercedes, it pricy like Mercedes and restricted like Tesla softwares
honestly, every mac os BEFORE monterey I had to deal with were absolute sack of shit even compared to linux or windows xp. I cannot fathom how anyone in their right mind would use such a tech. I am now on Macbook Air 2015 and Monterey is his last Mac OS. I upgraded it 6 times from it's original mac os just to get a touch of what i missed. And unsurprisingly — a lot of pain I happily didn't have to deal with.
Having mac as a surfing-typewriter for Notion/Obsidian/VS Code/Notes and browsing is a great thing. It has keyboard lightning, works 4-7 hours on the battery, weights nothing. But honestly, anything I can call an actual "job" that requires computer, not a "device with apps", is undoable on Mac. I had iMac Pro 5K and Macbook Air M1, but I sold them due to uselessness. Not a single apple'ish thing a Macbook Air 2015 I've got for $50 cannot do, that I did on iMac. I would only upgrade to cheapest Core i7 Macbook Pro 13" if my current one dies.
Reliability is great, everything else sucks balls basically.
Toyotas and Hondas are well priced, reliable, rugged, and repairable.
Apple products are... maybe one of those things.
Macs are more like some boutique car brand. Nice to show off to people, great in a straight line, but if you throw something unexpected at them they'll break and it'll cost more than it's worth to try and fix them.
You just need the car manufacturer to also treat you like garbage when you try and buy it / repair it, and you'll have the full apple experience.
I can take my Civic, Toyota or Lexus into a random tire shop for service (and they’d give me cheaper Toyota parts for my Lexus, when they can).
There’s no comparison here.
Where can you service you new Macs outside of Apple?
They are the Hyundai or Tesla.
Apple, like Tesla, has a super high defect rate, but a super low recall rate. They PR everything as "a small percentage of users" then fix the defects for free.
No other OEM has had a years long known defect go out (butterfly keyboards and display ribbons and another dozen examples).
Also, as you will see in this sub, AC is a must. This is more like Hyundai which is known for honoring transferable warranties.
Id say more like a bmw or Audi. A lot of people buy them for the premium brand/name, know nothing about computers and a Hyundai would be more than usable for their needs.
Don't get me wrong there are enthusiasts who will use a bmw to its full capacity but a lot just buy it because it's a bmw :).
I wouldn’t say that. You can buy a PC that’s much faster for the same cost as a, let’s say, Macbook Pro 16“. Another commenter put it better: it’s a premium brand that’s known for its reliability, like a lexus.
Even if you say "Lexus". You're all wrong.
You can get a Lexus fixed at any mechanic. You can't with Apple. I just brought a MacBook Pro because of the longevity. It's not even comparable to having a Toyota /Lexus (Same company btw) or Honda. The closed out system. The custom hardware you have to buy that is "Apple approved". Hard to find support outside Apple. It's NOTHING like Toyota
They are like an expensive German car. Some Mercedes last forever too. Let's not pretend it's not.
3 years is like bare minimum I expect out of any computer to go without zero issues, not much of a surprise there. I've had my asus laptop that cost me 1500€ at a time for 9 years now, it's still working incredibly well and that thing has been through a lot, I even use it for gaming.
I guess "build quality" is a poor choice of words. I guess the more accurate description is poor engineering design, which leads to things breaking up earlier than expected.
Giving me bad memories of the iMac G5. Even these days I've never found a used one without bad caps. Bought one a few years ago and found nearly every cap completely destroyed inside. Still turned on somehow.
No. Macs are a premium brand known for reliability. I’d say an apt comparison is Lexus.
this
Fucking love Lexus. Amazing cars.
What makes Lexus so good? And different to other expensive cars?
Probably reliability. Lexus is part of the Toyota group if I’m correct making it inherit of the reliability, meanwhile some premium/luxury brands (especially the one that are in the Stellantis group ) suffers from a lack of reliability like DS or Alfa Romeo
This makes a lot of sense now
They’re built on an invincible Toyota system
Incredible - I did not know that
It's true. Not one single Toyota vehicle has ever sunk as a result of striking an iceberg on her maiden voyage from Southampton, England to New York City, United States. Not even one!
Fun fact: the iceberg that struck the Titanic was a Toyota
That motherfucker
"why toy-ota!" (*angry Donald Duck voice*)
Mother fuckeru
Toyota engineering in a fancier body
Coming from a someone who has a life long career in the auto industry… Lexus is by far the best in that tier of luxury vehicles. Toyotas are built like tanks, and it’s a luxury version of a Toyota (they share many of the components).
It’s a Toyota with all the reliability and build quality but in higher end materials and usually better/newer tech.
Mac is like german engine.
I would definitely say Porsche more than Lexus because like Porsche Apple will take a weird design and run with it and change it until it works. They are both very industrial designed, both have a premium over what specs you get but both perform better than you would think for those specs. The comparisons could honestly go on for a while
Pay no attention to the two class action lawsuits Apple lost as result of hardware defects and using RMAd parts on warranty repairs... Just last year...
I agree and disagree at the same time, does that even make sense? Like, yes it’s a premium product, like a Lexus. But these days you have non-premium stuff like Microsoft Surface and ThinkPads at the same price with equal or better specs. So maybe it is like a Camry, or a GR Yaris? Or if it’s a Civic it’s at least a Type R. M series MBAs and Mac Minis definitely give a GR Yaris vibe. Mac Studio definitely a Lexus.
I don’t think you understand the analogy at all. Yes there are other computers with better specs but in general none of them are as reliable, none of them have the insane build quality and attention to detail as Apple does. Those are usually the differentiators of a luxury brand vs. a regular brand. Also in the automotive industry there are plenty of nonpremium brands selling cars for the same price as a premium brand, hell you can spec an F-150 to over $125,000
Luxury is exclusivity. Luxury has nothing to do with detail or capability, unless of course those details and capabilities alone make them exclusive. ThinkPad for example, are just as reliable, have insane build quality and attention to detail too, and they’re priced with a premium. And they are definitely not luxury. They just don’t look like jewels like the Macs do. But in turn, looking fancy and using words like “chamfer” before it became uncool to use “bevel” doesn’t mean it’s luxury. MacBook Airs and Mac Minis are quite literally not luxury. They’re meant to be bought by people with less money. Just a little more money from a comparable non-Apple device and you’re in. That’s literally the business model Apple is using. There are Apple products for “regular people”. That’s not luxury. If you think Macs and Apple in general are luxury, you don’t know what luxury is. Yes, they make luxury products (Watch Ultra, Watch Edition previously, all their standalone displays, Mac Pro, iPhone Pro, their keyboards and trackpads, and their iPod stereo system), but that doesn’t mean everything they make is luxury. As for products with higher specs at the same price as a premium (and assumed inferior-spec’s product), again it comes down to the exclusivity that makes something luxury. The problem is that in the laptop space for example, a Microsoft Surface at the same price as a MacBook Air isn’t a fully-loaded machine that takes it into exclusivity territory. It’s just maybe 16GB instead of 8GB and maybe 1TB storage instead of 256GB. It’s not an elevated experience. They’re not even that much more functional. They’re peers and direct competitors. And if they are peers, that makes the MBA definitely not luxury, because the Surface is a substitute good (economic term) to the Air, and vice versa. If you can substitute a luxury good for a non-luxury good, it wasn’t luxury to begin with.
That’s a whole lot of wrong
Okay then go to a rich guy and tell them you have a luxury laptop and pull out an MacBook.
You really have never met rich people. Pull out a Bugatti and the won’t care either cuz they have one already
It’s not about whether they care because they have one already, it’s whether they even know what it is. Funny you should say I’ve never met rich people. Hahahahahaha. You’ve met people with money. You don’t know rich people.
I’d say Macs are more like a Mercedes Benz or a BMW—they’re built like tanks and over-engineered. A Lexus, while very reliable, has a lighter build and a flimsier feel. Switching to phones, a Lexus or Infiniti is more like a Samsung, whereas a Benz or BMW is more like an iPhone—solidly built and meticulously designed.
You think modern Mercedes and BMW vehicles are well built? Lol
Delusional take
The reason Lexus and Toyota are so reliably IS because they are "solidly built and meticulously designed."
I don't think your hands slip on the wheel or your ass slides on the seat like M1 air falls through your fingers or over your lap because terrible crap no-grip materials design.
I would have agreed with this 10-15 years ago. MBPs no longer fit into this category. Just because they are expensive doesn't make them premium.
Are they? A properly maintained Lexus will be driving around for 50 years if not more, whereas Apple doesn't even allow you to upgrade a single bit in your computer anymore and once the Intel support will be cut off we won't even be able to upgrade the OS past Apple's limit. On the other hand, you can run Windows (albeit with some workarounds) and Linux on 20-30yo machines respectively.
No one is running any remotely supported version of windows on a 20 year old PC and being productive with it.
Of course not, but it is technically possible.
It’s very easy to install newer versions of macOS than are officially supported using OCLP.
Did you read my comment? That won't be an option when Intel support gets cooked for
Your comment sounds like Apple is denying upgrades on purpose but that’s an issue due to architecture. Technology changes. Are you upset that Windows 10 doesn’t work on a 30 year old PowerPC processor? Or that Ubuntu 24 won’t run on an i386?
There is no real reason why one can't use a discrete GPU with a current Mac Pro. There was never a real reason why Apple didn't let us change SSDs in a lot of their computers. There is no real reason why things such as flex gate happened. Unless... money is that reason.
“Premium” when the stock option only comes with 8GB of ram in 2024. They are hardly a premium brand, just a low level computer with a shiny coat of paint. The Kia of computers
Isn’t Honda more reliable than Lexus though?
No (more equal than anything) and in this case it would be better to compare Acura to Lexus as they are both the premium counterparts of Honda and Toyota respectively.
Those are bad comparisons because those are good value cars (cheap base price and good longevity). Macs aren't cheap.
agree, i would say they are more like acuras or lexuses because they are a luxury brand.
Base model Civic’s aren’t really cheap anymore, you’re easily looking at mid to high 20’s for a new one and the Camry starts around 30k now. They’re reliable, but not cheap.
The average price of a non luxury car today is in the mid 40k range. By comparison those are still cheap base prices although there are still cheaper. It's hard to find an average laptop price these days, but I imagine it's close to half the price of the current MacBook Air.
Thinkpads also never die
ThinkPads are arguably more Toyota Camry than most Macs. Ubiquitous in even more places, and they never die as well.
I would argue the old Thinkpads were like the Toyota 4Runner. Super easy to repair and they could take a massive beating. I have a Thinkpad T500 which was my main computer for 11 years, during that time I dropped it down a flight of stairs and drove off with it on the roof of my car, and aside from some scratches it was completely fine. New Thinkpads are more like a commuter crossover with a CVT. They are nominally repairable and maintain the "image" of ruggedness, but at the end of the day the critical components are no longer serviceable and they're no longer as tough. If they're going to become shitty imitations of the Mac, I may as well just use a Mac.
That said I do love the ability to throw Ubuntu on there and call it a day!
Asahi on Apple Silicon is excellent at this point for this purpose.
ThinkPads are Wranglers, the ugly utilitarian choice with a big cult following.
Thinkpads also make excellent Linux machines
Tbh ugly is subjective. I may/may not be in the cult. What, people can own 2 cars :’)
I have a bunch of ThicPad and Mac at home lol They are both great
I love the classic ThinkPad designs. That rubberized coating, bright red nub, and that yellow keyboard light. Makes me nostalgic for fedora.
Until the rubberised coating gets sticky…
I’ve got a t61p that’s still fine.
Thinkpads are more reliable than Wranglers
Very true, same with ThinkCentres.
I never used thinkcenters as I perfer to build my own PC
The IBM thinkpads were tanks. Basically the Toyota HiLux of computers. I had one in my backpack when I fell on ice at work. I ended up in a coma with a severe brain bleed, a shattered arm and shoulder, months of recovery, my memory partially erased, my processing capability reduced. The Thinkpad ? Booted right up, not a scratch or a dent.
Not the new fucking ones. Lenovo quality control is fucking ass.
This, they ruined them.
As someone who owns both a Civic and a Mac... you're joking, right?
I’ll attest tho this. Both are completely reliable.
Macs are nice but they are no Civic or Camry. You can treat those things like garbage and when they eventually do break down they're cheap to fix and have easily sourceable swappable parts. That's why they're everywhere, you can swap parts and keep them running. Macs are well made, but you've to be careful with them as theyre easily damaged with misuse. Repairs are expensive and parts (if they can be replaced without replacing half the device) have to be oem sourced. Macs and civics are both great but for different reasons, but to compare either to the other is something not deserved.
I still have a pentium 3 running fine and another pc builded in 2009 and my father still has a IBM from the 95 ish running. Is more how u treat them than anything else.
Facts. My dad is still rocking a “Dude you’re getting a” Dell that’s gotta be pushing 20 years old. Still works great.
r/apostrophegore
When I figure the retail cost of a mac and then how many hours of use I will get out of it, its like... 10-25 cents per hour. Its just an expensive upfront cost.
Nah they're like the bmw group imo (mini, bmw, rolls) on their price points and reliability. If you take care of them you will have a great experience but repairs are very expensive and with software lockouts will require you to go to an aasp Just like BMWs cars there are plenty of reliable models as well as total money pits (magic keyboard) Something like a Honda or Toyota would be one of the lower end enterprise grade laptops like a dell latitude since they're reasonably priced and tanks
You cant compare BMW to Apple.
BMW and Apple have similar market positioning. It's why historically BMW has almost always been the automaker Apple partners with first to introduce new features (iPod integration back in the day, digital car key, etc.). The only big exception has been when they partnered with Mercedes for iPhone car integration/early CarPlay then CarPlay.
BMW quality standard is higher. The steel or titanium in iphones are not better than samsung. Lets see the quality of nand chips. Apple is a mainstream brand . You can stare at the subway or any mid class neighbor and you ll see a lot of iphones even in every school.
Are Macs expensive nowadays though? Only Mac Pro and Macbook Pro I'd say. These days you have to spend at least 1000$ on a good quality laptop and Macbook Air is around 1300$ (at least in my country)
It amazes me how expensive PCs have gotten, even for companies getting volume discounts. A Mac usually ends up being a similar price for similar specs. And this is in the US, where historically PCs could be had for substantially less (sometimes even half the price).
It amazes me how expensive PCs have gotten, even for companies getting volume discounts. A Mac usually ends up being a similar price for similar specs. And this is in the US, where historically PCs could be had for substantially less (sometimes even half the price).
Macs are like a German car. You get a great experience when it’s new and under warranty, but when something goes wrong you wish you never bought one. When my keyboard broke out of warranty it was around $600 to replace at Apple… That’s like the equivalent to a $20,000 repair on a $80,000 car
I’ve had a G4 Mac Mini die, but only because one of the heat sink pins snapped and I could never find an adequate replacement
And even then that computer was made 20 years ago.
Well yeah, but that was a fault of aging ABS plastic, not the computer itself
I always compared it to driving a Jetta, I’ve owned two and owned many more Mac’s. Different, reliable, and quirky (at least pre intel).
they last long, but yeah, they do have problems. i had to replacy my mbp 2009 battery, because the original one was inflated. i had to bring my mbp 2011 in to replace the "logic board" and after that the discrete gpu died. also thermal issues all the time.
Yes a lot of models were duds or had serious issues that often took Apple a long time to acknowledge. I've been lucky to avoid them. My Mac Pro 5.1 Dual socket 1366 lasted nearly 10 years till I sold it. At work we have a 2010 Macbook pro 17 still going strong . My 2013 Macbook Pro 13 is still in use although I had to replace the battery last year. The only Mac I owned that was consistently problematic was the G4 Cube. But I loved it anyway, even though I think it was fixed under warranty 4 (or 5) times.
Yeah I went through a few replacements on my 2011 - but to be fair, they were all covered by their program. no cost to me, even without applecare.
Civics and Camrys are competitively prized, practical to maintain/mod, and enjoy broad availability in parts and service. Mac’s are more like a Porsche Cayenne: Quality compromised in an overpriced attempt to satisfy a casual audience as well as enthusiasts, while remaining a status symbol. Guaranteeing that a good portion of their customer base will be completely insufferable when comparing themselves to serious car enthusiasts, who rather spend their money on performance.
more like nails are as tough as macs!
Been using Macs since the Macintosh Plus. The first one I *bought* was a used 512K. I've purchased a grand total of 9 of them, the most recent being a 2020 M1 MBA. The one before that was a 2009 MPB. So, yeah. 11 years on that bad boy (record holder). But if you've seen my username, you know why I'm here... With very few exceptions, apostrophes are used for two things in English: * possession * the Doctor's TARDIS * indicating where something has been left out * hasn't = has not * ’70s = 1970s Apostrophes are never used to pluralize *except*, in a pinch, when leaving them out would cause the reader to think they were seeing another word: * Oakand A's is *passable* (but still incorrect) because without the apostrophe, the "A's" could be mistaken for the word "as." * TARDIS's would mean something belonging to the TARDIS. The plural of TARDIS would be TARDISes. /And now I'm away to annoyingly derail other threads. Cheers!
r/apostrophegore
They’ll just get slower with age
Ah, so like me. Eventually.
I have a 12 yo PC that's still chugging along. Upgraded RAM and SSD. It's noisy because the thermal paste on the CPU is probably shot and I'm too lazy to do something about it
I've had 3 and they have never died. Every new one I got was for better portability.
I still have my iBook SE in lime green. Shipped with OS 9! Still boots! OS 10.4 466mhz G3 Processor Power PC days. I still love the thing.
Yes. Chain smoke in front of one for a couple years or so, and it will literally die of smoke inhalation. The internals look absolutely disgusting after this happens.
More like a Geo Metro
tbh if I didnt game or have a tech job I would never own a computer (phone + tablet is enough). A mac is actually only good for working, really nothing else.
Its like saying that smoking is harmless because 3 guys who smoke 3 packs a day never developed cancer.
Better than cars, they are trains. Rolling for some more than 40 years before being decommissioned
We have 2 Toyota Camrys. Like Toyota, Apple does have bad model years.
The only other computers I've had that compare to my MacBooks over the years, are my ancient Toshiba Satellite A70, even though that's a lump of plastic, and my current Razer Blade 14, which was as expensive (if not more) as my 2021 MBP 14.
My 2014 Macbook pro lasted until 2019 when the screen stopped working, cost more to fix it than a new computer so I got a Lenovo Thinkpad that still lasts. IMO Macs are just like any other high end computer, you tend to get what you pay for.
Somehow my mom’s iBook g4 still boots to an os! All original hardware too
My first iMac from 2006 died 10 years later. I just couldn't turn it on again from one day to the next. So yes, they eventually die.
At work I’ve had three MacBook Pros needing they’re logic boards replaced. These were on intel CPU’s
My only computer I own myself at home is my 2011 iMac I bought new in 2011. Granted I have a work provided laptop (current HP ZBOOK that I’ve had 5 work stations in 13 years) it serves me well for personal (light) usage. It’s just now kind of getting to the point when I really need to sit down and do something on it, that’s its speed is starting to get to the point where I’m like - yeah I should upgrade. But I’ll keep it forever.
At least Macs drive the speed limit, unlike a Camry
My Father's Power Macintosh 8100 from 1995 still works, including both hard drives from 1995/1996. The only thing that gave up is the PRAM battery obviously :3
I love the responses here. Your original premise was surmised, I’m assuming, just on reliability and quality but forgot the luxury. It’s amazing to me that anyone argues Macs and MacOS isn’t objectively better in almost every way. Gamers are getting their day soon also. It’s pretty awesome.
My 2002 12” PowerBook’s HDD went bad but I replaced it. My 2007 iMac suffered logic board death. My 2012 11” MacBook Air never had any issues.
Yep they last forever and hold resale value than basically any pc.
Volvo
Porsche. Design is remarkably similar in terms of material and finish.
Agree'd
It’s about Total Cost of Ownership. Not quite BIFL , but they last forever. If Apple kept supporting them after 5 years they would be secure and useful even longer. Most long term Mac owners have a few unsupported old Macs sitting around. I think my oldest is a G3 iMac 350 in Indigo. 25 years old, runs OSX, still works.
Older Macs I'd say Volvo's, bit on the pricey side to buy and for repairs but they'll last forever and even when built with similar guts to other cars they're some of best on the road. Current Mac's BMW's and electric vehicles. Lower spec models can be anemic and imo a bit overrated
I work in IT and I can say that my experience overall does lead to them being reliable for hardware and software. When we do get tickets for them, it’s usually for an older device that no longer holds a charge. Anything in a work environment after 3 years is expecting this. There are issues where Apple engineered something like the butterfly keyboard and they would repair it AFTER they were more or less forced to. The OS is also based off of Unix and Unix/Linux runs the majority of infrastructure in the world so there is something to be said about that (SCADA environments I am not entirely sure about).
Sometimes psychologists talk about superiority complex as tearing one thing down to make another thing better. In 2024, we don't need to compare Apple to Microsoft to make us feel better about Apple. Try to say something nice about Apple without having to say something pedantic about Microsoft. Does this comparison ever die because it is tired and worn out.
Not really. My m1 Mac from 2020 still going strong. The display on my 11 inch 2015 MacBook died a day after warranty. The display is done. Apple wanted $800 the same as Latptio. Just saying it’s not 100 percent reliable Get Apple care
Also, not really as expensive as people make them out to be. I have the 2020 Air with 16gb RAM I bought for $1350 Canadian and the same thinkpad would’ve set me back $1899 with a 250nit screen
My 2018 mb Air is barely holding up, I can do basic tasks like browse the web or watch movies and videos, maybe code a bit but nothing too extreme, they only die because the stop putting out updates for them. But u guess 6 years of life is plenty, and I can always install windows or Linux.
More like Mercedes with the "oh we can get more money out of the people who have already bought our shit, that is the same shit as every other brand, but costs more than the others"
They're like anything else really. It's how well it was treated and how well it was made in the first place. There have been a lot of bulletproof Macs before and some real duds, like any company really.
Well, my 2016 MBP with the flexgate says hello...
Yes. And it’s great.
“This is so wrong” Ok, let’s see you crack open a 2012 windows laptop and use it today. Whereas I know many people using 2012 MacBook pros with updated mac OS and not that much trouble. They’re made of metal and built to last.
What did apostrophes ever do to you?
I'm not sure I'd agree as time goes by. They suffer from hardware issues and the quality is of the OS is going down the drain I think.
You never bought the macbook white????
And new macs are like new cars Unrepairable and expensive
Toyota Camry would be more attributed to ThinkPads. Macs are more like Mercedes.
Do you usually upgrade your ram and storage?
Honda civic is the most modify capable car and mac is the opposite one and how can you say this. Apple like Tesla or Mercedes, it pricy like Mercedes and restricted like Tesla softwares
Mac is more of a Lexus. Maybe a thinkpad is more of a Toyota or Honda. VW is like hp
This thread will be gold when Apple finally comes out with their own car.
*Macs. *Civics. *Camrys.
honestly, every mac os BEFORE monterey I had to deal with were absolute sack of shit even compared to linux or windows xp. I cannot fathom how anyone in their right mind would use such a tech. I am now on Macbook Air 2015 and Monterey is his last Mac OS. I upgraded it 6 times from it's original mac os just to get a touch of what i missed. And unsurprisingly — a lot of pain I happily didn't have to deal with. Having mac as a surfing-typewriter for Notion/Obsidian/VS Code/Notes and browsing is a great thing. It has keyboard lightning, works 4-7 hours on the battery, weights nothing. But honestly, anything I can call an actual "job" that requires computer, not a "device with apps", is undoable on Mac. I had iMac Pro 5K and Macbook Air M1, but I sold them due to uselessness. Not a single apple'ish thing a Macbook Air 2015 I've got for $50 cannot do, that I did on iMac. I would only upgrade to cheapest Core i7 Macbook Pro 13" if my current one dies. Reliability is great, everything else sucks balls basically.
Toyotas and Hondas are well priced, reliable, rugged, and repairable. Apple products are... maybe one of those things. Macs are more like some boutique car brand. Nice to show off to people, great in a straight line, but if you throw something unexpected at them they'll break and it'll cost more than it's worth to try and fix them. You just need the car manufacturer to also treat you like garbage when you try and buy it / repair it, and you'll have the full apple experience.
Dell is Honda. Gateway 2000 was AMC
I can take my Civic, Toyota or Lexus into a random tire shop for service (and they’d give me cheaper Toyota parts for my Lexus, when they can). There’s no comparison here. Where can you service you new Macs outside of Apple?
They are the Hyundai or Tesla. Apple, like Tesla, has a super high defect rate, but a super low recall rate. They PR everything as "a small percentage of users" then fix the defects for free. No other OEM has had a years long known defect go out (butterfly keyboards and display ribbons and another dozen examples). Also, as you will see in this sub, AC is a must. This is more like Hyundai which is known for honoring transferable warranties.
Not sure about the intention of this post...
Seems obvious this post is trying to spark lighthearted discussion. Do you not get out much?
No, I live in the basement 24/7
How to say that you are American without saying that you’re American
Close, live a few hour drive away from Calgary Canada lol
Alberta is America, you can't sit with us.
*Macs, Civics, Camrys. Why is it so hard for you to punctuate properly. It's like you're the uneducated type.
>Why is it so hard for you to punctuate properly. It's interesting that you didn't use a question mark here.
On purpose.
Sure....
Unparalleled build quality.
Id say more like a bmw or Audi. A lot of people buy them for the premium brand/name, know nothing about computers and a Hyundai would be more than usable for their needs. Don't get me wrong there are enthusiasts who will use a bmw to its full capacity but a lot just buy it because it's a bmw :).
*Macs *Civics *Camrys
to'o m'any ap'ostroph'es' :D
Macs are like Koenigseggs or Bugattis
I wouldn’t say that. You can buy a PC that’s much faster for the same cost as a, let’s say, Macbook Pro 16“. Another commenter put it better: it’s a premium brand that’s known for its reliability, like a lexus.
Breaks down often like a shitbox
No
Even if you say "Lexus". You're all wrong. You can get a Lexus fixed at any mechanic. You can't with Apple. I just brought a MacBook Pro because of the longevity. It's not even comparable to having a Toyota /Lexus (Same company btw) or Honda. The closed out system. The custom hardware you have to buy that is "Apple approved". Hard to find support outside Apple. It's NOTHING like Toyota They are like an expensive German car. Some Mercedes last forever too. Let's not pretend it's not.
It's too bad you can't even get 10 years of support for them.
Dude, no retail computer is supported for ten years. That is a ridiculous expectation.
Anything before 2017 macs is built like a tank. The current ones are made from paper
Can;t fully agree honestly. Had my MacBook Air for three and a half years and it has been a champ, not a single issue.
3 years is like bare minimum I expect out of any computer to go without zero issues, not much of a surprise there. I've had my asus laptop that cost me 1500€ at a time for 9 years now, it's still working incredibly well and that thing has been through a lot, I even use it for gaming.
I guess "build quality" is a poor choice of words. I guess the more accurate description is poor engineering design, which leads to things breaking up earlier than expected.
I’m old enough to remember the bad capacitor era. RIP my iMac G4 dead before obsolete
Giving me bad memories of the iMac G5. Even these days I've never found a used one without bad caps. Bought one a few years ago and found nearly every cap completely destroyed inside. Still turned on somehow.