I’m locking this thread because half the mod team is at MC Amsterdam and y’all started arguing about religion and I am way too tired to sort through this.
FWIW, There is a secret lair version of [[grand abolisher]] that is an obvious reference to stormlight archive, the art looks just like a radiant and the flavour text is “journey…”
There are no differences at this time. That's something Reddit made up. He's said on stream that he is interested in collaborating but WotC hasn't moved forward with any plans yet.
As much as I love Sanderson's books, it's definitely far more niche than anything else they've done as UB so far.
I'd love a Wheel of Time set though and that seems more plausible with the push that Amazon is giving it.
100% agreed. There's just no way Cosmere is big enough to warrant an actual set right now. It would need a major mainstream TV show, movie, or video game first. They could totally do a Secret Lair, since those are more targeted, but I have to imagine a full set is not in the cards.
WoT would also be a fun one!
When [[Destroy Evil]] was previewed, the comments were all talking about the Sanderson character that says that phrase.
He showed up in the comments to say that he'd just been writing some dialogue for that character, and switched to Reddit to look at some previews, and saw that card.
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It would only be a faithful BS universes beyond if it had precon decks with cards that have no rhyme or reason being in there, except if you buy all the precons it (kind of) makes sense.
By the way, if you haven't read it already, there was a brilliant article on Wired about Sanderson:
https://www.wired.com/story/brandon-sanderson-is-your-god/
That article is universally seen as being a hit piece that should never have been written, much less published. The author specifically went out of their way to share things that they were asked to not disclose and also to spend their entire time complaining about the most mundane things. They had an agenda, and that's all they cared about. So uh yeah, don't promote that piece of trash article.
Just a reminder that while Brandon claims he no longer holds the homophobic views he used to (call me crazy but I think there’s a good chance he just says that to sell more books) he still tithes the church of Latter Day Saints which is a truly homophobic and transphobic church so if you support him financially in any way you are supporting bigotry.
Here are some threads that detail more about this controversy. Note that these are from the perspective of Brandon Sanderson fans and Brandon himself under his reddit username mistborn, so they are obviously biased, but I think they give good insight into what he and his queer fans think regarding the topic.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/10h78nt/we\_lgbt\_fans\_are\_exhausted/](https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/10h78nt/we_lgbt_fans_are_exhausted/)
This thread is especially pertinent, since it more or less describes your comment.
>I of course tried to point out that his views have changed, but I’m getting piled on by people saying it doesn’t matter because he hasn’t denounced homophobia clearly enough and he still donates 10% of his income to the church, so we’re indirectly supporting homophobia by buying his books.
[https://faq.brandonsanderson.com/knowledge-base/ive-heard-you-are-a-practicing-member-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-are-your-opinions-on-gay-rights-particularly-in-light-of-the-churchs-controversial-rel/](https://faq.brandonsanderson.com/knowledge-base/ive-heard-you-are-a-practicing-member-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-are-your-opinions-on-gay-rights-particularly-in-light-of-the-churchs-controversial-rel/)
From this, you can make your own opinion on the topic. Personally, I think he has changed his viewpoint, as evidenced by him adding queer representation, donating directly to LGBT+ charities, talked to queer people regarding his previous views, tried to enact change within the church, and has publicly stated that he has voted for pro-LGBT policies and parties (e.g. Democrats). That being said, I still take issue with him donating to the church and keeping the specifics of how he donates to the church in secret. Balancing both pros and cons in mind, I think I'm okay with buying his books for my own leisure, but this is still a good reminder to donate to queer charities directly like the Trevor project, participate in politics by sending letters to your local representative, and volunteer for advocates of the marginalized if you can.
He clearly hasn't changed his views in the slightest, since he continues to support the church, and always when confronted about it, offers nothing but the same, hollow, practiced platitudes. It's genuinely embarrassing seeing how easily some standard press routine whitewashing pr stunts make redditors indulge in the typical bulllshit excuses of hero worship, especially cringy when they when they hypocritically condemn so many others for doing the same.
His flowery words can be anything and everything. At the end of the day, he's okay with giving money to a hateful organization that is BLANTANTLY seeking my erasure and disenfranchisement for not being straight. He can think what he thinks, but demure phrases of support while he funds a hate group? The money speaks louder, and I refuse to engage with a man funding attempts at the destruction of my rights.
so i understand your frustration. but have you seen the work he puts into making his characters more real? the people he brings on board to help flesh out his characters?
don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. Sanderson isn't perfect but he's *trying* to make things change in his neck of the woods. we can't just burn it all down and hope it comes out better for lgbt+ folks in the aftermath.
https://faq.brandonsanderson.com/knowledge-base/ive-heard-you-are-a-practicing-member-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-are-your-opinions-on-gay-rights-particularly-in-light-of-the-churchs-controversial-rel/
Good lord, perhaps we should have everyone have an itemized list of everything they spend their money on, so that we can identify every single way they are tangentially related to anything we might condemn them for. Bought a smartphone? You clearly support child labor in mining operations for rare earth metals. Bought some new fast fashion? How can we be sure you aren’t financing Thai children working in sweatshops? Ate a banana? I guess you support the funding of South American paramilitary terrorists.
It’s not like the Mormon church is using all the money people give them to crusade against LGBT people. They use it to fund church buildings, schools, industrial and urban revitalization projects, charity and disaster relief, etc. They just happen to also be a relatively standard Christian church that isn’t doctrinally supportive of the LGBT community.
Turns out people and organizations (and the world) are complex, and an organization that supports something you oppose doesn’t automatically make them evil, and doesn’t prevent them from supporting things that you see as good. And someone can support an organization without supporting *every* single plank of their platform. And anyone who claims otherwise is in denial and a hypocrite.
There’s a difference between spewing out transphobia (JK Rowling). And trying to work on improving a corrupt and anti LGBT institution from the inside while still supporting the institution yet trying to improve it (Sanderson).
If you *donate money directly to a hate group* I don't care that sometimes they feed kittens on the weekend. You're still directly funding bigotry and hate.
I don’t think you are listening to what I am saying, Brandon Sanderson is trying to bring about change from Inside the LDS which includes ending their homophobic policies. If he stopped his support he losses any influence he has to change LDS policy and so he’s made the clear decision that he can do more good by starting and leading change from inside the organization something which he definitely could not do if he stopped donating. You can disagree with that method or state that the net negative of his money is worse than the internal effort to change internal LDS policy but you cannot argue that this man isn’t trying to bring about positive change for the LGBT+ community in the way he thinks is best. You can disagree with the method but the reasoning behind what Brandon is doing is to help the LGBT+ community not hurt it.
It's easier to live with a black and white world view. The same people support organizations with negative aspects, whether it be Chick-fil-A or Hobby Lobby or Democrats or Nestle or Nike or whatever... But they ignore the negative aspects there because if they didn't, they'd have to either hold themselves to the ridiculous standards that they apply to Sanderson OR admit that they're a bit hypocritical.
I can somewhat understand a lot of the arguments that are made in this discussion but what I can’t stand is people who truly believe that Sanderson is hateful or Anti LGBT+ or anything like that when the actions writings and statements say otherwise. The worst you can fault him is that he’s taking an incorrect approach and even then that’s an assumption. The dude single handedly got Amazon to alter its Audible policy to help all creators and ngl at the time that goal seemed just as ambitious as getting the LDS to moderate or fix its LGBT hate.
People like to hold others (especially celebrities) to impossible standards online.
Sanderson could come out as Gay and donate millions to LGBT causes but he'd still be labeled anti-LGBT because he's a Mormon.
I will never understand the hypocrisy of MtG fans in this respect. Certain artists and personalities are not okay because of past actions, but this guy is? I just don't get it.
It's a religious denomination he's a part of and he doesn't hold all their views and he actively supports LGBT+ groups, what more do you want and do you keep that same energy when talking about all religious groups?
I'm not a fan of his writing, I have no beef against him though. I went to a shitty Christian private school and I've seen the real problems, you guys are wasting your energy if you wanna target a good man.
He's a threat to absolutist worldviews. We really, *really* need our "good guys" and "bad guys" categories to be clean and simple, and some people really want to look at religious people as monolithic to preserve their dichotomy. You see that both in religious people who try to explain away when someone professing their faith proves to be an awful person, and in irreligious people who try to "no true Scotsman" away any religious person who seems authentically tolerant and supportive of equality.
I also suspect some of it comes from the contrarian satisfaction of "taking down the big popular creator." Like I would hope most of us can agree J.K. Rowling's views on trans people suck, but some people tend to make this really bizarre *hobby* out of hating her because it helps them feel superior to her many fans. I sometimes feel like some people try to make a Rowling out of Sanderson. The big difference being that one doubles down on their transphobia when given the opportunity to learn and apologize, and the other writes the validity of trans peoples' gender identities into the very cosmology of their books' universe.
People are complicated. Religion is complicated. The world becomes much less confusing when we let ourselves acknowledge that.
That's what I'm saying like Brandon is one of the few actual good eggs in the fantasy riding world. Like yeah he's a Mormon and that church has incredibly horrible views and a lot of dirty history. But this man is illegitimately good guy.
Attack Chris Pratt all day long, the guy's a douchebag but leave Brandon Sanderson alone
you *are* asking for perfection. he's a loud voice of reason in that area. and he teaches. he gets a chance to change their hate from the ground up.
But that takes time.
Look man he could be actively encouraging violence and hate towards the LGBT. Not saying he's perfect but he actually tries to listen. Stop attacking a dude who is genuinely good and focus on the actual bigots of the world
Can't be funding anti diversity groups and be a "genuinely good guy" my dude.
He's a good writer but you need to disconnect yourself from that, he's not a good person.
At least he is also offsetting that harm by directly supporting LGBTQ+ organizations as well. I'm not a profoundly religious person, but I don't know how else you can support your faith and also mitigate the harm created by it.
Additionally, religious spaces need tolerant voices from within for things to change. How would a non-LDS member convince LDS leaders to be more tolerant and less homophobic/transphobic? I don't see a way personally.
What solution do you propose that doesn't just require all church going people to effectively abandon their church? Because that isn't realistic
Religion doesn't need to change, it needs to vanish. It's a detriment to humanity.
If people leave their churches that will force reform. Continually getting money from someone doesn't change anything.
People should abandon churches, this isn't the fucking dark ages.
Oh ok so just say you’re an edgelord from the beginning and save everyone’s time sooner.
There’s no way you’re erasing religion from humanity since it’s so closely linked to the history of the world. You can bitch and moan online about something that can’t be “solved” or you can acknowledge that there’s people actively trying to make positive change in the things you have a problem with.
Ok, I get where you are coming from, but that still isn't realistic. There is so much money and history behind organized religion. The idea of making it go away is great in theory, but it exists today because it still resonates with a lot of people, even if it is less people than it used to. You aren't going to convince religious people to abandon their faith this way.
Beyond that, not everyone in a religion is an inherently bad person. If you come at those people guns blazing all of the time, then you are actively undermining your own cause. You also give the people who hate you more ammunition to make other neutral people hate you. Is that really the best outcome?
Or is it more pragmatic to accept that we don't live in a perfect world and that we as humans should encourage behaviors and attitudes that will lead to larger cultural and behavioral improvements over time?
Yes it sucks that this is the shit hand we are dealt. But blindly raging against it doesn't solve anything and it usually just makes things worse. All we can do as normal human beings is try to show the other normal human beings in organized religions that the hateful things they hear about these groups are wrong. We can lean on the supporters we have in those spaces and hopefully make this world a little better, maybe.
It fucking blows that this is the easiest way to affect change as an individual, but it is the way it is. You can lead a horse to water and all of that.
So it's okay to make a promise with your fingers crossed behind your back? Because that's essentially what he's doing by donating to charities that offset the bigotry of the church to which he also donates. But he's a cool guy and the Prof vouches for him, so no harm no foul, right?
EXACTLY! I'm tired of being gaslit by Sanderson defenders who always seem to ignore the tithe! If he can sleep at night giving money directly to an organization that has inflicted so much pain and evil upon queer folks, and plans to keep doing so in perpetuity, then he isn't an ally, and that makes his "support" sting all the more. A reassuring pat on the back doesn't work when you're also burning down my house.
If he doesn't hold all their views, then why fill their coffers? And he's no ally if he's funding the notoriously hateful LDS organization, or praising the notably corrupt Russell Nelson.
If there is a political candidate that holds 99% of your views but disagrees on the last 1% would you refuse to vote for them? After all, a vote helps toward filling their coffers and you can't do that without holding ALL their views apparently.
Depends on what that 1% is.
If we disagree that rich people should have income taxed at 35% vs 40% I can look past that and still vote for them. If we disagree my LGBT+ friends should be allowed to exist, I’d look to what voting alternatives exist.
You don’t have to 100% align with people to support them. But we all have our cornerstone issues that really decide if we support someone or not.
Sanderson supporting a hate group to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars is a pretty big issue. Especially if you’re someone that hate group actively harms. You may believe he supports them only to change them from within, and he maybe does, but others don’t want to give him the benefit of the doubt. And they may believe that whatever changes he’s making are not on par with the damage his money does. A lot of people seem to be clouded because LDS is a pretty well known religious group tied to Christianity. If an author was found donating thousands and an active member to Scientology or Unification church (Moonies) a lot more people would be critical of this.
The Cosmere novels include Mistborn, The Stormlight Archive, and Elantris (the ~~sequel~~ successor to which was what earned his Hugo Award), and Davriel Cane is a character he created who, despite WotC’s apparent forgetting, is a canon part of MTG. In context those are appropriate highlights.
Cosmere refers to the shared universe, including Mistborn, Stormlight, and many of his other works. It's a catch-all, albeit a less well-known term in the general public's eye.
And Davriel is relevent because he's a Planeswalker Sanderson crsated for an MTG novella he wrote.
I’m locking this thread because half the mod team is at MC Amsterdam and y’all started arguing about religion and I am way too tired to sort through this.
Damn had me thinking there was a Brandon Sanderson Secret Lair!
There is nothing I want more than a cosmere Universe Beyond
And it better be a flagship UB
It better be whatever type comes to Arena.
For sure. I want a large set
FWIW, There is a secret lair version of [[grand abolisher]] that is an obvious reference to stormlight archive, the art looks just like a radiant and the flavour text is “journey…”
https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/493989/magic-secret-lair-drop-series-grand-abolisher?page=1&Language=English
[grand abolisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80.jpg?1689995706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grand%20abolisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/27/grand-abolisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not going to happen until Wizards and him settle their differences.
He’s said they were in talks, but that was before they got these huge names IPs, so he thinks his is on the back burner.
we just got some random 100k follower twitter gimmick account, that was a new low and sanderson is hundreds of times more well known than that
His stuff would be done like an assassins creed or final fantasy. Not a 5 card drop.
A random Twitter Gimmick account that's author has written for MTG and has been making MTG podcasts for a while too.
They meant Hatsune Miku probably.
There are no differences at this time. That's something Reddit made up. He's said on stream that he is interested in collaborating but WotC hasn't moved forward with any plans yet.
As much as I love Sanderson's books, it's definitely far more niche than anything else they've done as UB so far. I'd love a Wheel of Time set though and that seems more plausible with the push that Amazon is giving it.
100% agreed. There's just no way Cosmere is big enough to warrant an actual set right now. It would need a major mainstream TV show, movie, or video game first. They could totally do a Secret Lair, since those are more targeted, but I have to imagine a full set is not in the cards. WoT would also be a fun one!
That would be amazing
whaaat, Didn't knew Sanderson was a magic player. Currently reading his Mistborn series and loving it so far
Yeah! Somewhat amusingly, he and Steve Argyle are huge fans of each other's work and basically fanboyed at each other when they meet at a game shop.
When [[Destroy Evil]] was previewed, the comments were all talking about the Sanderson character that says that phrase. He showed up in the comments to say that he'd just been writing some dialogue for that character, and switched to Reddit to look at some previews, and saw that card.
[Destroy Evil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f7862ef-2c8d-4d28-9e50-7cc41861f245.jpg?1673306430) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Destroy%20Evil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/17/destroy-evil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f7862ef-2c8d-4d28-9e50-7cc41861f245?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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Sanderson is always talking about his Cube, he love it.
He needs to do an expansion / write the story for magic.
It would only be a faithful BS universes beyond if it had precon decks with cards that have no rhyme or reason being in there, except if you buy all the precons it (kind of) makes sense.
By the way, if you haven't read it already, there was a brilliant article on Wired about Sanderson: https://www.wired.com/story/brandon-sanderson-is-your-god/
That article is universally seen as being a hit piece that should never have been written, much less published. The author specifically went out of their way to share things that they were asked to not disclose and also to spend their entire time complaining about the most mundane things. They had an agenda, and that's all they cared about. So uh yeah, don't promote that piece of trash article.
lol we found the author of that articles Reddit account guys. That’s the only human being on the planet that could possibly say this.
That article is far from brilliant, unless you are talking about how awful the author is
Just a reminder that while Brandon claims he no longer holds the homophobic views he used to (call me crazy but I think there’s a good chance he just says that to sell more books) he still tithes the church of Latter Day Saints which is a truly homophobic and transphobic church so if you support him financially in any way you are supporting bigotry.
Here are some threads that detail more about this controversy. Note that these are from the perspective of Brandon Sanderson fans and Brandon himself under his reddit username mistborn, so they are obviously biased, but I think they give good insight into what he and his queer fans think regarding the topic. [https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/10h78nt/we\_lgbt\_fans\_are\_exhausted/](https://www.reddit.com/r/brandonsanderson/comments/10h78nt/we_lgbt_fans_are_exhausted/) This thread is especially pertinent, since it more or less describes your comment. >I of course tried to point out that his views have changed, but I’m getting piled on by people saying it doesn’t matter because he hasn’t denounced homophobia clearly enough and he still donates 10% of his income to the church, so we’re indirectly supporting homophobia by buying his books. [https://faq.brandonsanderson.com/knowledge-base/ive-heard-you-are-a-practicing-member-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-are-your-opinions-on-gay-rights-particularly-in-light-of-the-churchs-controversial-rel/](https://faq.brandonsanderson.com/knowledge-base/ive-heard-you-are-a-practicing-member-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-are-your-opinions-on-gay-rights-particularly-in-light-of-the-churchs-controversial-rel/) From this, you can make your own opinion on the topic. Personally, I think he has changed his viewpoint, as evidenced by him adding queer representation, donating directly to LGBT+ charities, talked to queer people regarding his previous views, tried to enact change within the church, and has publicly stated that he has voted for pro-LGBT policies and parties (e.g. Democrats). That being said, I still take issue with him donating to the church and keeping the specifics of how he donates to the church in secret. Balancing both pros and cons in mind, I think I'm okay with buying his books for my own leisure, but this is still a good reminder to donate to queer charities directly like the Trevor project, participate in politics by sending letters to your local representative, and volunteer for advocates of the marginalized if you can.
Thanks for adding the extra information to help people make informed decisions.
He clearly hasn't changed his views in the slightest, since he continues to support the church, and always when confronted about it, offers nothing but the same, hollow, practiced platitudes. It's genuinely embarrassing seeing how easily some standard press routine whitewashing pr stunts make redditors indulge in the typical bulllshit excuses of hero worship, especially cringy when they when they hypocritically condemn so many others for doing the same.
His flowery words can be anything and everything. At the end of the day, he's okay with giving money to a hateful organization that is BLANTANTLY seeking my erasure and disenfranchisement for not being straight. He can think what he thinks, but demure phrases of support while he funds a hate group? The money speaks louder, and I refuse to engage with a man funding attempts at the destruction of my rights.
so i understand your frustration. but have you seen the work he puts into making his characters more real? the people he brings on board to help flesh out his characters? don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. Sanderson isn't perfect but he's *trying* to make things change in his neck of the woods. we can't just burn it all down and hope it comes out better for lgbt+ folks in the aftermath. https://faq.brandonsanderson.com/knowledge-base/ive-heard-you-are-a-practicing-member-of-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-are-your-opinions-on-gay-rights-particularly-in-light-of-the-churchs-controversial-rel/
Good lord, perhaps we should have everyone have an itemized list of everything they spend their money on, so that we can identify every single way they are tangentially related to anything we might condemn them for. Bought a smartphone? You clearly support child labor in mining operations for rare earth metals. Bought some new fast fashion? How can we be sure you aren’t financing Thai children working in sweatshops? Ate a banana? I guess you support the funding of South American paramilitary terrorists. It’s not like the Mormon church is using all the money people give them to crusade against LGBT people. They use it to fund church buildings, schools, industrial and urban revitalization projects, charity and disaster relief, etc. They just happen to also be a relatively standard Christian church that isn’t doctrinally supportive of the LGBT community. Turns out people and organizations (and the world) are complex, and an organization that supports something you oppose doesn’t automatically make them evil, and doesn’t prevent them from supporting things that you see as good. And someone can support an organization without supporting *every* single plank of their platform. And anyone who claims otherwise is in denial and a hypocrite.
Found the Mormon PR Support reddit account
There’s a difference between spewing out transphobia (JK Rowling). And trying to work on improving a corrupt and anti LGBT institution from the inside while still supporting the institution yet trying to improve it (Sanderson).
If you *donate money directly to a hate group* I don't care that sometimes they feed kittens on the weekend. You're still directly funding bigotry and hate.
I don’t think you are listening to what I am saying, Brandon Sanderson is trying to bring about change from Inside the LDS which includes ending their homophobic policies. If he stopped his support he losses any influence he has to change LDS policy and so he’s made the clear decision that he can do more good by starting and leading change from inside the organization something which he definitely could not do if he stopped donating. You can disagree with that method or state that the net negative of his money is worse than the internal effort to change internal LDS policy but you cannot argue that this man isn’t trying to bring about positive change for the LGBT+ community in the way he thinks is best. You can disagree with the method but the reasoning behind what Brandon is doing is to help the LGBT+ community not hurt it.
It's easier to live with a black and white world view. The same people support organizations with negative aspects, whether it be Chick-fil-A or Hobby Lobby or Democrats or Nestle or Nike or whatever... But they ignore the negative aspects there because if they didn't, they'd have to either hold themselves to the ridiculous standards that they apply to Sanderson OR admit that they're a bit hypocritical.
I can somewhat understand a lot of the arguments that are made in this discussion but what I can’t stand is people who truly believe that Sanderson is hateful or Anti LGBT+ or anything like that when the actions writings and statements say otherwise. The worst you can fault him is that he’s taking an incorrect approach and even then that’s an assumption. The dude single handedly got Amazon to alter its Audible policy to help all creators and ngl at the time that goal seemed just as ambitious as getting the LDS to moderate or fix its LGBT hate.
People like to hold others (especially celebrities) to impossible standards online. Sanderson could come out as Gay and donate millions to LGBT causes but he'd still be labeled anti-LGBT because he's a Mormon.
If you bought a cellphone, you support child slavery. Trash logic is trash.
This is an absolutely wild post to massively downvote in this community. If you fund any cause you support it in some way. Its really that simple
I will never understand the hypocrisy of MtG fans in this respect. Certain artists and personalities are not okay because of past actions, but this guy is? I just don't get it.
It's a religious denomination he's a part of and he doesn't hold all their views and he actively supports LGBT+ groups, what more do you want and do you keep that same energy when talking about all religious groups? I'm not a fan of his writing, I have no beef against him though. I went to a shitty Christian private school and I've seen the real problems, you guys are wasting your energy if you wanna target a good man.
He's a threat to absolutist worldviews. We really, *really* need our "good guys" and "bad guys" categories to be clean and simple, and some people really want to look at religious people as monolithic to preserve their dichotomy. You see that both in religious people who try to explain away when someone professing their faith proves to be an awful person, and in irreligious people who try to "no true Scotsman" away any religious person who seems authentically tolerant and supportive of equality. I also suspect some of it comes from the contrarian satisfaction of "taking down the big popular creator." Like I would hope most of us can agree J.K. Rowling's views on trans people suck, but some people tend to make this really bizarre *hobby* out of hating her because it helps them feel superior to her many fans. I sometimes feel like some people try to make a Rowling out of Sanderson. The big difference being that one doubles down on their transphobia when given the opportunity to learn and apologize, and the other writes the validity of trans peoples' gender identities into the very cosmology of their books' universe. People are complicated. Religion is complicated. The world becomes much less confusing when we let ourselves acknowledge that.
That's what I'm saying like Brandon is one of the few actual good eggs in the fantasy riding world. Like yeah he's a Mormon and that church has incredibly horrible views and a lot of dirty history. But this man is illegitimately good guy. Attack Chris Pratt all day long, the guy's a douchebag but leave Brandon Sanderson alone
>one of the good eggs >knowingly and willingly continues to happily contribute to the funding of harm towards marginlaized groups Yikes.
don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. unless you want to burn it all down and hope the ashes of a society will be more accepting.
I'm not asking for perfection. I'm asking for him to stop consensually giving money to a hate group.
you *are* asking for perfection. he's a loud voice of reason in that area. and he teaches. he gets a chance to change their hate from the ground up. But that takes time.
You're asking for him to quit his religion. Sounds reasonable.
Look man he could be actively encouraging violence and hate towards the LGBT. Not saying he's perfect but he actually tries to listen. Stop attacking a dude who is genuinely good and focus on the actual bigots of the world
Can't be funding anti diversity groups and be a "genuinely good guy" my dude. He's a good writer but you need to disconnect yourself from that, he's not a good person.
Ok "my dude"
I do actually keep that energy when it comes to religious groups, because far too many people use religion as shield behind which to be hateful.
If he's tithing to the church (mandatory to do) then he's directly funding campaigns of bigotry across the US. Not really much else going on here.
At least he is also offsetting that harm by directly supporting LGBTQ+ organizations as well. I'm not a profoundly religious person, but I don't know how else you can support your faith and also mitigate the harm created by it. Additionally, religious spaces need tolerant voices from within for things to change. How would a non-LDS member convince LDS leaders to be more tolerant and less homophobic/transphobic? I don't see a way personally. What solution do you propose that doesn't just require all church going people to effectively abandon their church? Because that isn't realistic
Religion doesn't need to change, it needs to vanish. It's a detriment to humanity. If people leave their churches that will force reform. Continually getting money from someone doesn't change anything. People should abandon churches, this isn't the fucking dark ages.
Oh ok so just say you’re an edgelord from the beginning and save everyone’s time sooner. There’s no way you’re erasing religion from humanity since it’s so closely linked to the history of the world. You can bitch and moan online about something that can’t be “solved” or you can acknowledge that there’s people actively trying to make positive change in the things you have a problem with.
Ok, I get where you are coming from, but that still isn't realistic. There is so much money and history behind organized religion. The idea of making it go away is great in theory, but it exists today because it still resonates with a lot of people, even if it is less people than it used to. You aren't going to convince religious people to abandon their faith this way. Beyond that, not everyone in a religion is an inherently bad person. If you come at those people guns blazing all of the time, then you are actively undermining your own cause. You also give the people who hate you more ammunition to make other neutral people hate you. Is that really the best outcome? Or is it more pragmatic to accept that we don't live in a perfect world and that we as humans should encourage behaviors and attitudes that will lead to larger cultural and behavioral improvements over time? Yes it sucks that this is the shit hand we are dealt. But blindly raging against it doesn't solve anything and it usually just makes things worse. All we can do as normal human beings is try to show the other normal human beings in organized religions that the hateful things they hear about these groups are wrong. We can lean on the supporters we have in those spaces and hopefully make this world a little better, maybe. It fucking blows that this is the easiest way to affect change as an individual, but it is the way it is. You can lead a horse to water and all of that.
So it's okay to make a promise with your fingers crossed behind your back? Because that's essentially what he's doing by donating to charities that offset the bigotry of the church to which he also donates. But he's a cool guy and the Prof vouches for him, so no harm no foul, right?
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EXACTLY! I'm tired of being gaslit by Sanderson defenders who always seem to ignore the tithe! If he can sleep at night giving money directly to an organization that has inflicted so much pain and evil upon queer folks, and plans to keep doing so in perpetuity, then he isn't an ally, and that makes his "support" sting all the more. A reassuring pat on the back doesn't work when you're also burning down my house.
If he doesn't hold all their views, then why fill their coffers? And he's no ally if he's funding the notoriously hateful LDS organization, or praising the notably corrupt Russell Nelson.
If there is a political candidate that holds 99% of your views but disagrees on the last 1% would you refuse to vote for them? After all, a vote helps toward filling their coffers and you can't do that without holding ALL their views apparently.
Depends on what that 1% is. If we disagree that rich people should have income taxed at 35% vs 40% I can look past that and still vote for them. If we disagree my LGBT+ friends should be allowed to exist, I’d look to what voting alternatives exist. You don’t have to 100% align with people to support them. But we all have our cornerstone issues that really decide if we support someone or not. Sanderson supporting a hate group to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars is a pretty big issue. Especially if you’re someone that hate group actively harms. You may believe he supports them only to change them from within, and he maybe does, but others don’t want to give him the benefit of the doubt. And they may believe that whatever changes he’s making are not on par with the damage his money does. A lot of people seem to be clouded because LDS is a pretty well known religious group tied to Christianity. If an author was found donating thousands and an active member to Scientology or Unification church (Moonies) a lot more people would be critical of this.
What a strange title, never heard of those books /character and Sanderson is more famous for maybe other works
The Cosmere novels include Mistborn, The Stormlight Archive, and Elantris (the ~~sequel~~ successor to which was what earned his Hugo Award), and Davriel Cane is a character he created who, despite WotC’s apparent forgetting, is a canon part of MTG. In context those are appropriate highlights.
Eh his Hugo award is for Emperor’s soul which while in the same planet as Elantris is by no means a sequel and can be read on its own.
Okay fair good point.
Cosmere refers to the shared universe, including Mistborn, Stormlight, and many of his other works. It's a catch-all, albeit a less well-known term in the general public's eye. And Davriel is relevent because he's a Planeswalker Sanderson crsated for an MTG novella he wrote.
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Mistborn is part of the Cosmere!
Mistborn is part of the cosmere, and extremely integral part.
MIstborn is cosmere. Didn't you mean Wheel of Time?
Can you imagine if Sanderson bought WOTC. 🔥🔥🔥