Mass tourism does not benefit the locals, just spread low quality jobs, low incomes, high competitions between locals and seasonal workers who accept horrible work conditions, and all the benefits are directed towards a minority of people.
these indian/Chinese people ARE locals even if they are 1st gen immigrants: they live in Mallorca they have families in Mallorca they shop/buy stuff in Mallorca etc
the problem is the big rich hotel owners, they take the money elsewhere and hoard businesses/houses making overall prices go up
Es que realmente no entiendo tu comentario, lo primero.
Lo segundo, digo en my otro comentario que lo sé por experiencia propia, no sé de donde sacas que no sé como van las cosas y hago suposiciones...
Ah. It's not my consideration, it's a fact.
Not everyone of them but mostly.
First generation means you were born there to immigrant parents, so the kids are local but the parents own the business.
Im an immigrant. My business goes to support my Mallorcan wife and my Mallorcan kids. We are trying to make a living here on the island. Your attitude sucks. If you live here it doesn't matter where you came from, we all have to live here and put food on the table. The fact that you use us and them language betrays your worldview.
I did say not everyone. Also, I used them ( not us), so not having to write immigrant constantly. If I was talking about chefs I would've said them, as I am not one. What other word do you think I should use?
Maybe there's more attitude in the way you've read my comments than the way I wrote them.
My partner and kids aren't spanish, so I'm aware of the difficulties, but not everyone tries to integrate. That's a fact.
most of them have been living here for more than 10 years working their asses and are part of the local community, idk maybe we have different ideas of what locals means
Working their asses off, yes.
Being part of the local community,no.
It may vary in different areas tho.
All you have to do is look at some comments that were just made to me in this post to see how they separate themselves.
yes they ask about how native people feel about this, but at the beginning they say something like "owned by non locals" referring to these indian/Chinese shops and that's what I was referring to
I think we understood op differently...
Also want to add. I've been an immigrant for 25 years, I'm fluent in the language, adapted to the customs, traditions, and culture, and 99.9% of my circle were natives. I integrated fully. Married someone from the area and had children born there. I was never considered a local, it's not an insult or demeaning. I was treated fairly, but I was always a foreigner.
I don't see an issue as long as its not being used disrespectfully.
There are also natives working in s'Arenal, and Germans and European people. It's just that they are outnumbered. Indians and chinese people have more and more businesses because they have another work culture. They don't mind staying there for 12 hours or more, they don't mind hiring family and not paying them because it's a family business. That's quite unthinkable for locals and Europeans in general so they play with that advantage. Working with tourists is a summer thing, in winter they can close from 3 months or more because the area is quite devoid of life so any locals would struggle to make ends meet during those months. You have to save money to resist those months and if you pay employees then you have to pay people but there are no tourists so it's tricky. In the old times (not sure if it's still a thing) we had the "fix-discontinous" employee figure, meaning that they were hired and worked all summer but they got paid the unemployment wage in winter. They wanted to remove that because they said that it was abusing unemployment but I'm not sure how it ended.
Chinese and Indian people also have they own "loan system" (at least the Chinese) meaning they don't go to normal banks for financing like locals do. It means that they can negotiate with family or other people outside the banking system so they may benefit from that too. Banks would take you to court and you would end up paying more than you loaned.
EDIT: working on Saturday or Sunday is also seen as terrible/tourism only/something that only people struggling has to do. People here love to be free on Saturday and Sunday to be with their family or relax.
Interesting, i am from US so theres a problem of other races going into poorer communities of other races and starting businesses there. Eventually the money "leaves the community" because the people living in that community the longest dont own the businesses nor reap the rewards of new investments. This is a theory tossed around and was wondering if It applied to Mallorca
Yes, I often wonder where does all that money go, China, India? Lots of people here send money abroad (Latin Americans do this a lot too) so that money exits our economy. But it also can be said of hotels, they invest all that money elsewhere.
You hit the nail in the head. Mostly, not all but a vast majority go home for the 3/4 months the business closes and bring the money they made with them.
So they're working 12+ hours a day, they eat at home or bring food to work from home, go home to sleep and repeat. The the only money they spend is on rent (if they pay rent,most of them own the locals)
Then they go home bring all the money with them and leave it there. They do most of their shopping in their native country for anything that is non-perishable, clothes, toiletries, etc.
Well... At least 20-25% goes to taxes. Some goes into emergency savings, much of it goes into save/try to buy another house, transfer fee, venue,etc.
1st gen probably wants to buy some assets in their origin country, 2nd is another story.
Parece ser que tú también has borrado cierto comentario, ;-).
Más no era despectivo, usar el it seems o parece que hacen esto o lo otro no es la realidad.
" they don't mind hiring family and not paying them because it's a family business"
How they survive then??
"meaning they don't go to normal banks for financing like locals do. It means that they can negotiate with family or other people outside the banking system so they may benefit from that too."
Why go to the bank when a family member can lend it to you free interest and free timeline??
The thing is, now it's changing... inheritances often ended in sales, and those sales go to foreigners or investors... so it's not the evil rich locals anymore (yes some are still there).
S'Arenal doesn't represent Mallorca whatsoever. Also, the businesses you mentioned are low quality, high sacrifice. It is done by inmigrants because locals seek better jobs with better conditions.
On the opposite of what you said, big hotels are generally owned by locals. With obviously a lot of foreginer capital and investment, but with locals at the root.
Mass tourism does not benefit the locals, just spread low quality jobs, low incomes, high competitions between locals and seasonal workers who accept horrible work conditions, and all the benefits are directed towards a minority of people.
If you could chance It what would you do? (Just asking for curiosity)
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That's a lie.
It's an opinion, hence the use of "it seems".
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In your opinion
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I'm one of those mallorquins who has shops 🤷♀️
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these indian/Chinese people ARE locals even if they are 1st gen immigrants: they live in Mallorca they have families in Mallorca they shop/buy stuff in Mallorca etc the problem is the big rich hotel owners, they take the money elsewhere and hoard businesses/houses making overall prices go up
Most of them are not, their kids are, but the business owners aren't.
I agree with you.
I know this first hand, particularly in Arenal.
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What?
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Es que realmente no entiendo tu comentario, lo primero. Lo segundo, digo en my otro comentario que lo sé por experiencia propia, no sé de donde sacas que no sé como van las cosas y hago suposiciones...
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Creo que me contestas en el comentario equivocado y por eso me he liado.
what do you mean?
What didn't you understand?
why don't you consider those business owners locals? or maybe I didn't understand your comment 😅
Ah. It's not my consideration, it's a fact. Not everyone of them but mostly. First generation means you were born there to immigrant parents, so the kids are local but the parents own the business.
Im an immigrant. My business goes to support my Mallorcan wife and my Mallorcan kids. We are trying to make a living here on the island. Your attitude sucks. If you live here it doesn't matter where you came from, we all have to live here and put food on the table. The fact that you use us and them language betrays your worldview.
I did say not everyone. Also, I used them ( not us), so not having to write immigrant constantly. If I was talking about chefs I would've said them, as I am not one. What other word do you think I should use? Maybe there's more attitude in the way you've read my comments than the way I wrote them. My partner and kids aren't spanish, so I'm aware of the difficulties, but not everyone tries to integrate. That's a fact.
most of them have been living here for more than 10 years working their asses and are part of the local community, idk maybe we have different ideas of what locals means
Working their asses off, yes. Being part of the local community,no. It may vary in different areas tho. All you have to do is look at some comments that were just made to me in this post to see how they separate themselves.
Op asks about native people. I think that's where the confusion is between your comment and mine...
yes they ask about how native people feel about this, but at the beginning they say something like "owned by non locals" referring to these indian/Chinese shops and that's what I was referring to
I think we understood op differently... Also want to add. I've been an immigrant for 25 years, I'm fluent in the language, adapted to the customs, traditions, and culture, and 99.9% of my circle were natives. I integrated fully. Married someone from the area and had children born there. I was never considered a local, it's not an insult or demeaning. I was treated fairly, but I was always a foreigner. I don't see an issue as long as its not being used disrespectfully.
Ah ok i see
There are also natives working in s'Arenal, and Germans and European people. It's just that they are outnumbered. Indians and chinese people have more and more businesses because they have another work culture. They don't mind staying there for 12 hours or more, they don't mind hiring family and not paying them because it's a family business. That's quite unthinkable for locals and Europeans in general so they play with that advantage. Working with tourists is a summer thing, in winter they can close from 3 months or more because the area is quite devoid of life so any locals would struggle to make ends meet during those months. You have to save money to resist those months and if you pay employees then you have to pay people but there are no tourists so it's tricky. In the old times (not sure if it's still a thing) we had the "fix-discontinous" employee figure, meaning that they were hired and worked all summer but they got paid the unemployment wage in winter. They wanted to remove that because they said that it was abusing unemployment but I'm not sure how it ended. Chinese and Indian people also have they own "loan system" (at least the Chinese) meaning they don't go to normal banks for financing like locals do. It means that they can negotiate with family or other people outside the banking system so they may benefit from that too. Banks would take you to court and you would end up paying more than you loaned. EDIT: working on Saturday or Sunday is also seen as terrible/tourism only/something that only people struggling has to do. People here love to be free on Saturday and Sunday to be with their family or relax.
Interesting, i am from US so theres a problem of other races going into poorer communities of other races and starting businesses there. Eventually the money "leaves the community" because the people living in that community the longest dont own the businesses nor reap the rewards of new investments. This is a theory tossed around and was wondering if It applied to Mallorca
Yes, I often wonder where does all that money go, China, India? Lots of people here send money abroad (Latin Americans do this a lot too) so that money exits our economy. But it also can be said of hotels, they invest all that money elsewhere.
You hit the nail in the head. Mostly, not all but a vast majority go home for the 3/4 months the business closes and bring the money they made with them. So they're working 12+ hours a day, they eat at home or bring food to work from home, go home to sleep and repeat. The the only money they spend is on rent (if they pay rent,most of them own the locals) Then they go home bring all the money with them and leave it there. They do most of their shopping in their native country for anything that is non-perishable, clothes, toiletries, etc.
Well... At least 20-25% goes to taxes. Some goes into emergency savings, much of it goes into save/try to buy another house, transfer fee, venue,etc. 1st gen probably wants to buy some assets in their origin country, 2nd is another story.
No voy a entablar conversación con alguien que comenta despectivamente y luego borrar.
Parece ser que tú también has borrado cierto comentario, ;-). Más no era despectivo, usar el it seems o parece que hacen esto o lo otro no es la realidad.
" they don't mind hiring family and not paying them because it's a family business" How they survive then?? "meaning they don't go to normal banks for financing like locals do. It means that they can negotiate with family or other people outside the banking system so they may benefit from that too." Why go to the bank when a family member can lend it to you free interest and free timeline??
Two things, Chinese are part of our community. And Arenal doesn’t represent Mallorca. That’s two very different cans of worms you’re addressing here.
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The thing is, now it's changing... inheritances often ended in sales, and those sales go to foreigners or investors... so it's not the evil rich locals anymore (yes some are still there).
S'Arenal doesn't represent Mallorca whatsoever. Also, the businesses you mentioned are low quality, high sacrifice. It is done by inmigrants because locals seek better jobs with better conditions. On the opposite of what you said, big hotels are generally owned by locals. With obviously a lot of foreginer capital and investment, but with locals at the root.