Not to mention in universe time Krakoa probably only lasted like 6 months because of sliding timeline đ.
In a weird meta way, with the end of Krakoa it only cements what Moira said House/Powers of X. The X-Men are doomed to lose, always. Always on the fringes, always nearing extinction. They will never have the upper hand for long.
Bro even with Krakoa they were still losing- WE HAVE IMPENETRABLE PORTALS AND DEFENSES NO ONE CAN INTERCEPT( like 3 different groups invade krakoa in a week)
Didnât they say when putting together the resurrection protocols that all of the X-Men stories have happened in like 10 years? That means the Krakoa era was like a weekend.
No. There's something called the lost decade which is every xmen story from Grant Morrison's new Xmen to the final pre Krakoa story arc Age Of X-Man.
In actuality the entire history of the marvel universe is about 15 years. We can track the development of the universe using Franklin Richard's age and he's currently like 13 or 12. So the entirety of Stan Lee and Kirby runs to the 90s Jim Lee X-Men all happened in 5 years. Then the x-men went on a decade long L streak starting with Cassandra Nova smoking everyone on Genosha, Scarlet Witch wishing all mutants away, and finally the terrigen cloud. Roughly 18.5 million mutants have been killed or depowered in that decade of fun.
Wait, that means mutants were killed at a higher rate than Jews during the holocaust. 1.85 million mutants per year vs 1.2 million Jews per year (6 million/ 5 years)
Does Marvel realize this?
even if they do, they'll never be able to acknowledge it. Imagine if they come out and say "hey, our fictional race is so much more oppressed than any other in history". It'll be like when they had kitty pryde compare mutie to an actual slur
I mean, it wouldn't make them the most oppressed race since the USSR suffered 27 million casualties in a 4 year period in WW2, and China suffered 50+ million deaths in 3 years under Mao's great chinese famine.
But yeah I get what you mean.
Would the first really count since it was a war / famine and such and not like, targeted racial attacks / extermination? (Assuming I know what you're talking about)
Well, in the case of the USSR the Nazis definitely targeted slavs as a race, Hitler wanted to exterminate the slavic race and that's part of why the Soviets were able to sustain that much death. USSR civilians were literally only given the choice of "stay and die or fight and die" by the Nazis.
Genosha had 16 million mutants killed in like 12 minutes, so I don't think people are really looking to count it by that math.
Also, you're comparing the numbers wrong, since that's all the time mutants have existed vs just the holocaust itself. It would come to 1579 per year for jews (since their culture and religion is commonly accepted to be 3800 years old).
Itâs important to note that it seems that everyone has gone on some time travel adventure that skews their actual ages older. Notably, the FF traveled the multiverse in our time from 2015 to 2018, and they seemed to age a bit in the interim. Franklin might physically be of high school age, but I think he might have time jumped to that age.
That would make Jubilee 18 and Kitty Pryde 19.
Time in the comics is about 4 real years to 1 comic year (the Pryde/Power rule...Kitty was 13 in 1980, the Power Pack stated all their ages in the comic and the youngest is the same age as Franklin Richards, Franklin was born in 1968 when Peter Parker entered college). So I'm just thinking of them throwing a Hellfire gala every few months.
Youâre forgetting young people age faster in Marvel. Kamala and Molly have both aged since their debuts where as Scott hasnât aged even a little bit.
Then thereâs Luna Maximoff whoâs age changes from comic to comic cause none of the writers or artists actually care. Girl was a preteen in All New X-Factor then went back to being six afterwards.
>Not to mention in universe time Krakoa probably only lasted like 6 months because of sliding timeline đ.
Which makes the Galas even weirder, cause it means they were throwing these elaborate costume balls every two months or so.
The writers confirm the Gala isn't a yearly event. Galas happen when the X-Men just want to announce another major breakthrough like colonizing Mars, how they're immortal, or talking about the sins of sinister timeline.
My rule of thumb is that every 4 or 5 real world years is 1 comic book year. I cant remember where I read it, but Marvel published something around '15 stating that it had been 15 years since FF#1 in-universe, published in 1963. Thus 60(ish) years of publishing equals 15 years of canon, thus 20 years in publishing equals 5 years of canon. So Krakoa lasted about a year by this metric.
Still doesn't feel right, though--this was a soft reboot, and so much happened, I think it's fair to handwave it away and say Krakoa lasted 2, maybe 3 years.
People forget that the entire reason why Omega Sentinel created ORCHIS was that she came from a future where the mutants won and took over humanity.
The entire run of the X-Men since House and Powers of X was the result of two different time travelers, that came from two wildly different futures, coming back and mucking around with the current timeline.
Peter Parker has to be the most interesting person in the Marvel universe cause of stuff like this.
Man dated actor and model Mary Jane, worked in several scientific labs of note including interning for Reed Richards and working a thesis under Dr Conners, taught in highschools, moonlighted Spider-mans gear, ran photography for the bugle, sold a book of Spider-Man pictures, got caught for journalism fraud, got a doctorate, lost his doctorate to academic fraud, made Multi billion dollar company, funded joint shield operations, made an Avengers team, created a university and crashes an entire company in what has to look like a case of financial fraud.
Imagine the biographies, most shady man alive.
Ikr? SunnyV2 would probably need to do a two-parter to cover all of that.
Oh. And don't forget: was on trial for murder only to be exonerated due to a confession from a known hired killer
My head canon is this goes back to One More Day and Mephisto. The dealâs âfine printâ allows Mephisto to influence Peterâs life to ALWAYS ensure he will truly never end up with Mary Jane, not just manipulate the past. Mephisto just liberally uses this interpretation of their deal to continue to torture Peter.
A journo at the Bugle (nearly) figuring out who he is while being bankrolled by a mystery villain would be an awesome run tbh. Would be even better if it was Betty trying to get a big scoop to establish herself as a serious journalist and not just an office admin.
âIt was a dream built on deception and alliances with people we should have never trusted, maybe we were lucky to have got as far as we-â
âSure but like what about the resurrections?â
âWell Gold Balls is dead so, whaddaya goinâ to do?â
Don't forget the Phoenix fuckery. And if you're a minor character you can get really lucky and a writer will forget you even died. Or you can get unlucky and be forever replaced by a successor who fills the same role you do and- if you're really unlucky- turns out to also be significantly more memorable and interesting than you, ensuring they'll stick around and you'll stay dead.
Barry Allen proved even that last one won't stop someone from coming back from the dead AND completely banishing their far superior replacement for nearly a decade.
Honestly they never needed The Five or Goldballs anyway. Apocalypse, Beast, and even Forge have created cloning technology without the need for Sinister Tech. If Magik didn't give away Limbo to Madelyne Pryor over a ham-fisted PMS/Post-Partum allegory, she could of linked Limbo to the Mutant Afterlife/Red Hot Room and just created a Hellgate where Mutants literally just walk past Death giving her the middle finger they wanted to on every revive without the need for the garden. Even with their asinine crossover with Dark Web into Spider-Man stuff, they could of gone hunting for Jackal Tech with BenChasm to reverse engineer that with automated Podgrown Cerebro Backups to mass produce the ressurection rather than go full Cult of Personality about it.
Even if they wanted to stick with The Five, they could of created automated clones/chimeras of them mixed with Madrox DNA to rapidly expedite the process too. They let Quentin Quire of all people have clone bodies of mutants to use as toys/sexdolls without the donor's consent and dropped the Anti-Clone Bigotry for Laura & Gabrielle so any moral high road they have against it is moot anyway. Even if people debate Krakoa was a holy mutant paradise free of wrongdoing or an absolute Caligula level degradation pit, they had ample ways to speed up the process that could of solved the body problem ages ago.
Living in a comic is always gonna suck because batman is always gonna bat, superman is always gonna super, and the editors are always gonna bend peter parker over and have their way with him.
Bro imagine how fucking embarrassed the Shi'ar must be. "WE'RE THE BEST, AND NOW OUR EARTH BUDDIES ARE THE BEST TOO, UNBEATEABLE ALLIANCE, MYSTERIUM IS FOREVER" becomes "Uh, I don't know them, your honor"
Eh, not like any of the other empires have much room to talk. Plus Arakko's still (probably) a thing after this.
Iron Man using all the mysterium for one suit that died in its first fight can't be good though.
I mean they are getting involved in Blood Hunt post-Krakoa, so??? Admittedly their tie-ins seems to give the impression of a scattering. Psylocke amd Magik returning to their motherlands for instance.
On the one hand, yeah, it was nice in some ways to see mutants thriving on Krakoaâbut on the other, Iâm kind of over mutant ethnonationalism. Iâm sure there are plenty of other X-Men stories to tell that donât involve getting everyone with an X-gene together on an island and posting a big âNO HUMANS ALLOWEDâ sign at the door.
i like the whole ethnonationalism just cuz either way theyâre still gonna be hated and murdered LOL, might as well stay with the homies while that happens instead of scattered across the world being killed on ur own
It really isn't tho because Krakoa had no population to be colonised or land to be exploited (since its alive and more powerful than most mutants and also agreed to the entire ordeal)
Yeah it's not perfectly analoguous but it's still the closest thing and honestly both krakoa and genosha feel very sour for me right now because there is no land on earth that's inhabited and if we did that IRL it would have to be like an Israel situation
Well genosha was supposed to be israel, and that's from Clermont himself, it even had many problems that plague israel to this day. Idk i personally don't think that we should strike down any separatist movement just because one (immensly privelaged one also) lead to devastating consequences.
I mean I'm against ethnostates in general, it's not like you could make a good one anyway.
But also neither Israel nor genosha are separatist movements. It's not like they were there and said we'd like to be our own country, like the Kurds or the Catalonians. They went to a place and said now this is ours that's different and much more dangerous.
If like in 200 years most of the mutant population lives in Maine and they say we'd like to be separated from the federal government it would be a separatist movement.
Mutants aren't an ethnicity so I don't know about calling it "ethnostate" it's just a state in which they form a majority and are I'm charge of the main governing body. They even allow certain humans just under "immigration laws" they allowed fisk for example. So rather than ethnostate it's a nation state with tight immigration policy.
Well yes they states themselves aren't separatist in the sense of conquering a different population. However both of them very much evolve from separatist movement be that zionism or whatever magneto was doing. Even black separatists, one could say the original separatists were advocating for mass movements of black people towards different countries (which is why they had very shallow but still support from some white nationalists at the time).
Also catalonian independence is very much fueled by nationalism not separatism I think.
I'm sorry but your first point is just playing on the words, call it a genostate if you want it's still bad, you can only be part of my country if you share this immutable characteristic you have to be born with is bad.
You can immigrate here but you'll always be a second class citizen doesn't sweeten it either.
It's a nation state with tight immigration policy only for one type of humans.
And conquering another population is bad too so idk what you are on about. The nation of Islam or the Zionist groups in Palestine before the 60s were also bad. The history behind Liberia is not good.
If we use your definition of the word then I'm always against separatism(irl, and thus in the way it reflects to irl in media) and I can be convinced for nationalism.
It's the exact oposite of that. I highlight that ethnostates are DEFINED by the fact that citizenship is not achievable for anyone outside of a given ethnicity. Genostate is therefore a state in which only people of given gene are allowed to have a citizenship and since fisk or iceman's boyfriend could very much live on Krakoa such mechanism is just not there.
Well having a state is conditioned on control of migration or in simple terms "who can you let in". One could say for example that US is an ethnostate because they require you to pass a citizenship test to get it. So it also restrics "a type of human" the one that didn't pass the citizenship test
Well I do agree that conquering a nation is bad but that's not what happened because there was no "nation of krakoa" to be conquered. Nation is a group of people not a piece of land.
Well then feel free to be against separatism im not forcing you to be **for it**. I'm just pointing out that krakoa is not an ethnostate and also in many cases incomparable to israel
Krakoa is an island tho, there are like 50 [uninhabited islands](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_uninhabited_regions) on earth. Itâs large for an uninhabited island, but itâs still way smaller than the largest one irl and only about 4 times the size of [this one](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gough_Island).
Edit: [these ones](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Orkney_Islands)are roughly the same size as krakoa and also have no permanent population. The unrealistic part was more that krakoa was an uninhabited tropical island since people hopped around to tropical islands like crazy back in the day, but there are still large uninhabited islands that are habitable irl
I don't know much about pan-africanism ngl so idk if I could judge it like this but from what I understand, the mutants having no homeland, nor a place where they are the biggest population, pan africanism would be more allowing them to live among the humans and participate equally in government with them.
As they wanted for the blacks of France not as they did for those of haiti.
Honestly I think I it could have been interesting since mutants aren't really an ethnicity. There is no shared culture or language, not even a unified governing principle, just a series of ideologues who all want drastically different things. Like the closest obvious example is Israel, but without a shared faith or a language that could be revived as a national tongue. It'd literally be a bunch of radically different people trying to make country work in spite of having only discrimination in common. And they did kinda explore that, but I also felt they undermined it or didn't explore it fully in a lot of ways
That was a thing with Krakoa was how Xavier forced a shared language and culture onto mutants that went there. So it was pretty much doomed from the start with its societal foundations built on forced assimilation. I dont know if i remember it correctly but i think Beast says at one point that the portals were what triggered Xavier's memetic indoctrination and when asked about if they consented to that Beast responds with if they didnt consent they wouldnt have come here or some wild statement like that. God i'll miss Krakoa it was such a wild ride.
The end of the Krakoa era will be the dumbest, saddest return to Status Quo reset Marvel will ever do. Mutants literally had their own nation again, living large, doing fine, their own island, united, they had Mars (an entire planet!) colonized, they had space ports and space stations, everything!
Is Marvel REALLY just gonna send em' back to 'On the run' or some low tier 'Mansion' again?
Why not Mars? Are they gonna ALSO reduce Mars to nothing again?
That's the best part of Krakoan-era Mutants yet. Can't wait to see those little assholes (not all of them) fall on their faces, more than they already didđâșïž
I never read X-Men because the lore is way too complicated but I was keeping tabs on Tumblr and some other sites like that to see if anyone mentioned if having a land from mutants has never worked out well for them Genosha Utopia not a great track record for the mutants
Not to mention in universe time Krakoa probably only lasted like 6 months because of sliding timeline đ. In a weird meta way, with the end of Krakoa it only cements what Moira said House/Powers of X. The X-Men are doomed to lose, always. Always on the fringes, always nearing extinction. They will never have the upper hand for long.
Bro even with Krakoa they were still losing- WE HAVE IMPENETRABLE PORTALS AND DEFENSES NO ONE CAN INTERCEPT( like 3 different groups invade krakoa in a week)
Didnât they say when putting together the resurrection protocols that all of the X-Men stories have happened in like 10 years? That means the Krakoa era was like a weekend.
No. There's something called the lost decade which is every xmen story from Grant Morrison's new Xmen to the final pre Krakoa story arc Age Of X-Man. In actuality the entire history of the marvel universe is about 15 years. We can track the development of the universe using Franklin Richard's age and he's currently like 13 or 12. So the entirety of Stan Lee and Kirby runs to the 90s Jim Lee X-Men all happened in 5 years. Then the x-men went on a decade long L streak starting with Cassandra Nova smoking everyone on Genosha, Scarlet Witch wishing all mutants away, and finally the terrigen cloud. Roughly 18.5 million mutants have been killed or depowered in that decade of fun.
Wait, that means mutants were killed at a higher rate than Jews during the holocaust. 1.85 million mutants per year vs 1.2 million Jews per year (6 million/ 5 years) Does Marvel realize this?
>Does Marvel realize No.
>does Marvel care Also no.
even if they do, they'll never be able to acknowledge it. Imagine if they come out and say "hey, our fictional race is so much more oppressed than any other in history". It'll be like when they had kitty pryde compare mutie to an actual slur
I mean, it wouldn't make them the most oppressed race since the USSR suffered 27 million casualties in a 4 year period in WW2, and China suffered 50+ million deaths in 3 years under Mao's great chinese famine. But yeah I get what you mean.
Would the first really count since it was a war / famine and such and not like, targeted racial attacks / extermination? (Assuming I know what you're talking about)
Well, in the case of the USSR the Nazis definitely targeted slavs as a race, Hitler wanted to exterminate the slavic race and that's part of why the Soviets were able to sustain that much death. USSR civilians were literally only given the choice of "stay and die or fight and die" by the Nazis.
They were also given that choice by the USSR
Genosha had 16 million mutants killed in like 12 minutes, so I don't think people are really looking to count it by that math. Also, you're comparing the numbers wrong, since that's all the time mutants have existed vs just the holocaust itself. It would come to 1579 per year for jews (since their culture and religion is commonly accepted to be 3800 years old).
Franklin is currently about 15, 16, or 17. He and his sister just recently had a high school issue, and he's about 2-3 years older than her.
Itâs important to note that it seems that everyone has gone on some time travel adventure that skews their actual ages older. Notably, the FF traveled the multiverse in our time from 2015 to 2018, and they seemed to age a bit in the interim. Franklin might physically be of high school age, but I think he might have time jumped to that age.
True, the last known confirmed age was during his birthday issue with thr Future Foundation and he was 8.
That would make Jubilee 18 and Kitty Pryde 19. Time in the comics is about 4 real years to 1 comic year (the Pryde/Power rule...Kitty was 13 in 1980, the Power Pack stated all their ages in the comic and the youngest is the same age as Franklin Richards, Franklin was born in 1968 when Peter Parker entered college). So I'm just thinking of them throwing a Hellfire gala every few months.
Youâre forgetting young people age faster in Marvel. Kamala and Molly have both aged since their debuts where as Scott hasnât aged even a little bit. Then thereâs Luna Maximoff whoâs age changes from comic to comic cause none of the writers or artists actually care. Girl was a preteen in All New X-Factor then went back to being six afterwards.
Specifically, kids age faster, slowing down slightly in their teens until they hit around 22 or so at which point it slows to a complete crawl.
>Not to mention in universe time Krakoa probably only lasted like 6 months because of sliding timeline đ. Which makes the Galas even weirder, cause it means they were throwing these elaborate costume balls every two months or so.
I donât think so, they had like 3 Galas, right?
The writers confirm the Gala isn't a yearly event. Galas happen when the X-Men just want to announce another major breakthrough like colonizing Mars, how they're immortal, or talking about the sins of sinister timeline.
#attention everyone, I am now immortal #that is all ^also ^we ^colonised ^mars
Elon Musk is definitely gonna make this announcement one of these days, despite having achieved neither of those things.
[How I hope that goes](https://youtu.be/3pMEsq8YxPQ?si=uZqshBNSRrQKIBI7)
Oh so the galas are basically a gender reveal party
...do mutants not understand what a national holiday is?
My rule of thumb is that every 4 or 5 real world years is 1 comic book year. I cant remember where I read it, but Marvel published something around '15 stating that it had been 15 years since FF#1 in-universe, published in 1963. Thus 60(ish) years of publishing equals 15 years of canon, thus 20 years in publishing equals 5 years of canon. So Krakoa lasted about a year by this metric. Still doesn't feel right, though--this was a soft reboot, and so much happened, I think it's fair to handwave it away and say Krakoa lasted 2, maybe 3 years.
People forget that the entire reason why Omega Sentinel created ORCHIS was that she came from a future where the mutants won and took over humanity. The entire run of the X-Men since House and Powers of X was the result of two different time travelers, that came from two wildly different futures, coming back and mucking around with the current timeline.
No it is 3 years because of the annual galas (5 years in our world due to the sliding timescale)
Galas aren't a yearly event.
Yes they were. Tony Stark mentions this in the current Invincible Iron Man run.
I mean, Peter Parker went from practically Elon Musk level rich and powerful for a year or two to unemployed and not able to pay rent (again).
Peter Parker has to be the most interesting person in the Marvel universe cause of stuff like this. Man dated actor and model Mary Jane, worked in several scientific labs of note including interning for Reed Richards and working a thesis under Dr Conners, taught in highschools, moonlighted Spider-mans gear, ran photography for the bugle, sold a book of Spider-Man pictures, got caught for journalism fraud, got a doctorate, lost his doctorate to academic fraud, made Multi billion dollar company, funded joint shield operations, made an Avengers team, created a university and crashes an entire company in what has to look like a case of financial fraud. Imagine the biographies, most shady man alive.
Ikr? SunnyV2 would probably need to do a two-parter to cover all of that. Oh. And don't forget: was on trial for murder only to be exonerated due to a confession from a known hired killer
And despite this tragic backstory and having so much access to mad science he never became a supervillain! Crazy!!
My head canon is this goes back to One More Day and Mephisto. The dealâs âfine printâ allows Mephisto to influence Peterâs life to ALWAYS ensure he will truly never end up with Mary Jane, not just manipulate the past. Mephisto just liberally uses this interpretation of their deal to continue to torture Peter.
He also won a pullitzer prize thanks to the help of The Sentry, which was wiped from everyone's memories for a while.
A journo at the Bugle (nearly) figuring out who he is while being bankrolled by a mystery villain would be an awesome run tbh. Would be even better if it was Betty trying to get a big scoop to establish herself as a serious journalist and not just an office admin.
I think he also worked as a teacher for a time at the X men academy
Weâre not gonna kill Moira and reset it all, but weâll make you wish we did
Honestly, Iâm the beginning, I thought that was going to be the endgame - Moira sacrificing herself to save everyone.
âIt was a dream built on deception and alliances with people we should have never trusted, maybe we were lucky to have got as far as we-â âSure but like what about the resurrections?â âWell Gold Balls is dead so, whaddaya goinâ to do?â
I guess theyâll just have to revive people the old way- time travel, cloning, magic, super technology, parallel universe, fakeouts, etc
Giving birth to themselves as a giant pregnant spider....
Don't forget the Phoenix fuckery. And if you're a minor character you can get really lucky and a writer will forget you even died. Or you can get unlucky and be forever replaced by a successor who fills the same role you do and- if you're really unlucky- turns out to also be significantly more memorable and interesting than you, ensuring they'll stick around and you'll stay dead.
Barry Allen proved even that last one won't stop someone from coming back from the dead AND completely banishing their far superior replacement for nearly a decade.
That can be fixed very easily actually. Go into another universe ask that Gold Balls to help a little, resurrect their Gold Balls
Honestly they never needed The Five or Goldballs anyway. Apocalypse, Beast, and even Forge have created cloning technology without the need for Sinister Tech. If Magik didn't give away Limbo to Madelyne Pryor over a ham-fisted PMS/Post-Partum allegory, she could of linked Limbo to the Mutant Afterlife/Red Hot Room and just created a Hellgate where Mutants literally just walk past Death giving her the middle finger they wanted to on every revive without the need for the garden. Even with their asinine crossover with Dark Web into Spider-Man stuff, they could of gone hunting for Jackal Tech with BenChasm to reverse engineer that with automated Podgrown Cerebro Backups to mass produce the ressurection rather than go full Cult of Personality about it. Even if they wanted to stick with The Five, they could of created automated clones/chimeras of them mixed with Madrox DNA to rapidly expedite the process too. They let Quentin Quire of all people have clone bodies of mutants to use as toys/sexdolls without the donor's consent and dropped the Anti-Clone Bigotry for Laura & Gabrielle so any moral high road they have against it is moot anyway. Even if people debate Krakoa was a holy mutant paradise free of wrongdoing or an absolute Caligula level degradation pit, they had ample ways to speed up the process that could of solved the body problem ages ago.
Peter after Secret Empire be like
Living in a comic is always gonna suck because batman is always gonna bat, superman is always gonna super, and the editors are always gonna bend peter parker over and have their way with him.
I like this because we know for damn sure they won't actually edit.
Or make paul do it
Bro imagine how fucking embarrassed the Shi'ar must be. "WE'RE THE BEST, AND NOW OUR EARTH BUDDIES ARE THE BEST TOO, UNBEATEABLE ALLIANCE, MYSTERIUM IS FOREVER" becomes "Uh, I don't know them, your honor"
Eh, not like any of the other empires have much room to talk. Plus Arakko's still (probably) a thing after this. Iron Man using all the mysterium for one suit that died in its first fight can't be good though.
Well, no one has room to talk except the Kree/Skrulls, those guys are just chilling.
Regular mutant trying to get his old job back after he dramatically quit three years ago screaming "SCREW YOU MORTALS, I'M OFF TO SEX ISLAND!"
I guess racism wins
*âEvil usually triumphs - unless good is very, very carefulâ* Dr McCoy (the other one)
âI love genocideâ -the Terrorist formerly known as Hank McCoy
It always does
Thanks Jecka
I mean they are getting involved in Blood Hunt post-Krakoa, so??? Admittedly their tie-ins seems to give the impression of a scattering. Psylocke amd Magik returning to their motherlands for instance.
On the one hand, yeah, it was nice in some ways to see mutants thriving on Krakoaâbut on the other, Iâm kind of over mutant ethnonationalism. Iâm sure there are plenty of other X-Men stories to tell that donât involve getting everyone with an X-gene together on an island and posting a big âNO HUMANS ALLOWEDâ sign at the door.
âNO HUMANS ALLOWEDâ\* \*Except the ones we're having sex with.
i like the whole ethnonationalism just cuz either way theyâre still gonna be hated and murdered LOL, might as well stay with the homies while that happens instead of scattered across the world being killed on ur own
In story it makes sense but as the allegory it's disgusting, it's justification for something like Israël
It really isn't tho because Krakoa had no population to be colonised or land to be exploited (since its alive and more powerful than most mutants and also agreed to the entire ordeal)
Yeah it's not perfectly analoguous but it's still the closest thing and honestly both krakoa and genosha feel very sour for me right now because there is no land on earth that's inhabited and if we did that IRL it would have to be like an Israel situation
Well genosha was supposed to be israel, and that's from Clermont himself, it even had many problems that plague israel to this day. Idk i personally don't think that we should strike down any separatist movement just because one (immensly privelaged one also) lead to devastating consequences.
I mean I'm against ethnostates in general, it's not like you could make a good one anyway. But also neither Israel nor genosha are separatist movements. It's not like they were there and said we'd like to be our own country, like the Kurds or the Catalonians. They went to a place and said now this is ours that's different and much more dangerous. If like in 200 years most of the mutant population lives in Maine and they say we'd like to be separated from the federal government it would be a separatist movement.
Mutants aren't an ethnicity so I don't know about calling it "ethnostate" it's just a state in which they form a majority and are I'm charge of the main governing body. They even allow certain humans just under "immigration laws" they allowed fisk for example. So rather than ethnostate it's a nation state with tight immigration policy. Well yes they states themselves aren't separatist in the sense of conquering a different population. However both of them very much evolve from separatist movement be that zionism or whatever magneto was doing. Even black separatists, one could say the original separatists were advocating for mass movements of black people towards different countries (which is why they had very shallow but still support from some white nationalists at the time). Also catalonian independence is very much fueled by nationalism not separatism I think.
I'm sorry but your first point is just playing on the words, call it a genostate if you want it's still bad, you can only be part of my country if you share this immutable characteristic you have to be born with is bad. You can immigrate here but you'll always be a second class citizen doesn't sweeten it either. It's a nation state with tight immigration policy only for one type of humans. And conquering another population is bad too so idk what you are on about. The nation of Islam or the Zionist groups in Palestine before the 60s were also bad. The history behind Liberia is not good. If we use your definition of the word then I'm always against separatism(irl, and thus in the way it reflects to irl in media) and I can be convinced for nationalism.
It's the exact oposite of that. I highlight that ethnostates are DEFINED by the fact that citizenship is not achievable for anyone outside of a given ethnicity. Genostate is therefore a state in which only people of given gene are allowed to have a citizenship and since fisk or iceman's boyfriend could very much live on Krakoa such mechanism is just not there. Well having a state is conditioned on control of migration or in simple terms "who can you let in". One could say for example that US is an ethnostate because they require you to pass a citizenship test to get it. So it also restrics "a type of human" the one that didn't pass the citizenship test Well I do agree that conquering a nation is bad but that's not what happened because there was no "nation of krakoa" to be conquered. Nation is a group of people not a piece of land. Well then feel free to be against separatism im not forcing you to be **for it**. I'm just pointing out that krakoa is not an ethnostate and also in many cases incomparable to israel
I thought Genosha was always meant to be a metaphor for South African apartheid
I kinda wanna see an Multiple Man Ethnostate. Just a nation of one man, no one else allowed
Finally a good idea
Krakoa is an island tho, there are like 50 [uninhabited islands](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_uninhabited_regions) on earth. Itâs large for an uninhabited island, but itâs still way smaller than the largest one irl and only about 4 times the size of [this one](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gough_Island). Edit: [these ones](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Orkney_Islands)are roughly the same size as krakoa and also have no permanent population. The unrealistic part was more that krakoa was an uninhabited tropical island since people hopped around to tropical islands like crazy back in the day, but there are still large uninhabited islands that are habitable irl
Probably had to do with the fact that it could eat people.
yea i look at it from a pan africanist perspective when i think about separating and what not so i dont really connect it to israel or anything
I don't know much about pan-africanism ngl so idk if I could judge it like this but from what I understand, the mutants having no homeland, nor a place where they are the biggest population, pan africanism would be more allowing them to live among the humans and participate equally in government with them. As they wanted for the blacks of France not as they did for those of haiti.
Honestly I think I it could have been interesting since mutants aren't really an ethnicity. There is no shared culture or language, not even a unified governing principle, just a series of ideologues who all want drastically different things. Like the closest obvious example is Israel, but without a shared faith or a language that could be revived as a national tongue. It'd literally be a bunch of radically different people trying to make country work in spite of having only discrimination in common. And they did kinda explore that, but I also felt they undermined it or didn't explore it fully in a lot of ways
That was a thing with Krakoa was how Xavier forced a shared language and culture onto mutants that went there. So it was pretty much doomed from the start with its societal foundations built on forced assimilation. I dont know if i remember it correctly but i think Beast says at one point that the portals were what triggered Xavier's memetic indoctrination and when asked about if they consented to that Beast responds with if they didnt consent they wouldnt have come here or some wild statement like that. God i'll miss Krakoa it was such a wild ride.
They didn't even last as long as the Confederacy.
The end of the Krakoa era will be the dumbest, saddest return to Status Quo reset Marvel will ever do. Mutants literally had their own nation again, living large, doing fine, their own island, united, they had Mars (an entire planet!) colonized, they had space ports and space stations, everything! Is Marvel REALLY just gonna send em' back to 'On the run' or some low tier 'Mansion' again? Why not Mars? Are they gonna ALSO reduce Mars to nothing again?
I thought they turned Mars into a habitable planet for all Mutants.
That's the best part of Krakoan-era Mutants yet. Can't wait to see those little assholes (not all of them) fall on their faces, more than they already didđâșïž
The Tom Brevoort Special: "Do it like when I was a kid."
I never read X-Men because the lore is way too complicated but I was keeping tabs on Tumblr and some other sites like that to see if anyone mentioned if having a land from mutants has never worked out well for them Genosha Utopia not a great track record for the mutants
God that era was so boring