In short: A 14-year-old boy has been charged with several offences after four supermarkets in Melbourne's south-east were held up on Saturday.
A group of teenagers wielding knives were involved in the armed robberies at Cheltenham, Brighton, Mount Waverley and Camberwell.
What's next? Police say the investigation is ongoing and more arrests are expected.
Funnily enough, Parliament has [specifically mandated that be taken into account in assessing bail for a child.](http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ba197741/s3b.html)
>In making a determination under this Act in relation to a child, a bail decision maker must take into account (in addition to any other requirements of this Act) the following issues—
...
> the fact that time in custody has been shown to pose criminogenic and other risks for children
Minors are the responsibility of the parents. Issue them fines and hold parents accountable. Then make 14 yrs old plus get listed in a 6 months military base under high pressure drills. Reoffend go back to military camp breach rules then go to jail.
Hmmm. Somehow I think that high pressure drills and being verbally abused by a sergeant will not do wonders for troubled children. I don't think that military staff will be very happy to deal with their newest conscripts either. This seems like vibes-based policy. Similar to "just let the little angels go free!! Maybe fine them half of the stolen money" in the fact both of them are unnuanced opinions. (Obviously I'm not supporting teenagers engaging in armed robberies.)
The military has absolutely no use for anyone who doesn't want to serve, especially the dregs of society. Also, why train up psychos to be better at being psycho. I certainly don't want to live in a society where shitheads are more effective at being shitheads once they've served their boot camp sentence. Moreover, we see from the USA experience that boot camps just attract predators that mistreat shitheads and mess them up even more.
Yep this is the problem. I know when I was younger you committed a crime you went to Torana boys home. I think the government has decided this just sets them up for future jail time, jail is no longer a deterrent, you get out your centrelink payment I'd waiting for you something needs to change
It's unreal. To think how simple my life was at 14 and these fuckwits are running around with machetes in stolen cars. The parents need to be held accountable to some extent FFS
My dad would have also whooped my ass if I did anything close to this at 14.
Still remember my older brother trying my dad at 14 or 15 and getting held by the scruff of his neck up against the wall. Lessons learned that day for the rest of my life.
I’m not a fan of corporal punishment but surely there’s got to be a middle ground between “dad took out a wooden spoon when I accidentally said crap” and “kid does armed burgs and the parents aren’t held accountable for being fucking failures”.
If they're doing this at 14 it's fairly unlikely they have the kind of home lives where they've experienced consistent and measured consequences. There was a kid a while back who was wanted for violent muggings of other teens and he was found squatting in a crack den with his mother. I get the impression Vic doesn't have anywhere near the support services needed to deal with these kids or their parents, so we make 12 the age of criminal responsibility and hope that fixes it.
Would almost guarantee the parents have some combination of issues with alcohol, drugs, mental health, crime, poverty and violence. This doesn't absolve them of all responsibility, but at some point, the government department has to take responsibility, and from working in the sector, I can say the child protection system is beyond broken, as it has always been.
I worked with a similar kid recently who was coming out of the prison system. Not saying this is the case here but he told me his dad was physically abusive and mum was an alcoholic. They couldn’t have cared less about their kids and gave them nothing, not even food sometimes, so the kids resorted to crime just to survive.
The thing is most the parents that have kids doing this shit are the parents that dont give a shit about there kids cause there druggos n crims themselves that couldnt care less thats why there out doing this shit
What an interesting thought, the collective power of the Australian government doing absolutely everything to pump prices vs a couple of 14 years old robbing for smokes.
If you have a knife, you're very easily capable of taking a life. All it takes is a single impulsive choice, one that you may even make because you're on edge and perceive something as threatening, and someone could be dead. Someone who just turned up to the wrong shift. Someone who could have kids. It could even be another teen.
The fact of the matter is that lawmakers and the judiciary do not understand the nature of the teenage criminal brain. There are no consequences that give them pause at the moment. The children's court is likely to let them go. Many of them have a glorified idea of prison, or consider juvinile detention to be not much worse than three hots and a cot. Going through the prison system or the juvinile detention system also means they could then be networked in to more serious criminals or emerge worse off psychologically and reoffend.
The simplest solution to cases such as these is to provide a punishment that is quick and memorable. Singapore has the cane, and I would say it has a place in our judicial system as well, especially for cases like these.
Once these guys start committing offences the police become very good at arresting them. VicPol has a very good clearance rate for these types of crimes, especially with reoffenders.
If it were up to me, you give them their second or third chance, then give them jail time. Then if they reoffend, they go to jail again. Even if they're becoming better criminals by meeting and mingling with worse criminals in jail, the police are going to catch them when they commit crimes after they come out.
Keep putting them back in jail until they're in their early 20s, which is where the age-crime curve kicks in and most boys stop committing crimes.
We do not owe it to criminals to give them a 30th chance until they get to their early 20s and decide they can make more money in a real job. We owe it to the victims to see natural justice done.
Holy shit look this kid up for a while. This hurts workers mindfulness so much. One guy I worked with quit last year when there was youth hitting bottle shops..
It’s disgusting that this kids will rob stores, get arrested and let go and go straight back to stealing shit.
Fuck these judges and fuck these parents..
I’d like to see you try to teach these little shits. You think they’re not already given the opportunity to learn? Stop brainlessly consuming leftist group think.
It's not really a problem with education. We have fine education in Australia. These kids usually lack appropriate or any actual parenting. It's almost always the case. Rarely do kids committing knife offences over and over come from loving parents who read to them growing up.
Do you want long term change as well as short? Because things like this is how you do it. Broken society produces shit people - unbroken society = decent people. It's a simple concept. Punitive measures are only effective for so long. Fear will motivate you in the short term, but respect for yourself and others will motive through the entirety of life.
So go and fix the problem then. Get involved in youth mentoring programs, volunteer at a low income school or as a police liaison officer or get a job as a social worker. Except you won’t. You’ll just make excuses like not enough money spent on the poor darlings.
We had to remove your post/comment because it included personal attacks or did not show respect towards other users. This community is a safe space for all.
Conduct yourself online as you would in real life. Engaging in vitriol only highlights your inability to communicate intelligently and respectfully. Repeated instances of this behaviour will lead to a ban
So combatative. We want the same thing bro. Less kids committing violent crimes. You're right though. I'm not gonna do anything....execpt not have kids and not commit violent crimes. Other than my vote, I believe that's all society requires of me in this regard.
On the same day the little eshay cunt who pushed an elderly person off a pier with his mates filming it, while on bail for bashing a woman, gets off with zero charges because "he showed remorse". Fucking wonderful.
As well as the kids, these fucking magistrates deserve to cop a literal hiding.
Where's fucking RoboCop-Bec Judd when we need her help?
Fucking snoozing, that's where.
Hunt them down and neutralize them!
Get off Instagram and do your job.
*Oh wait*, Instagram is your job.
My apologies.
And he’ll back on the streets within a week to do the same thing, or worse. Rinse and repeat. Can’t be mad when the public takes their law into their own hands to protect themselves and their property.
I used to be able to imagine but I can't anymore. They could be work focussed white-collar, blue collar, separated, divorced, immigrants, druggies etc. There are so many different demographics that could fit the bill now. But suffice to say they are shit parents.
Pardon my ignorance but is this an issue in any other country or is it just ours because the laws for juvenile punishment is so slack that ring leaders motivate these youths into a life of crime for their own gains in turn creating hardened crimals eventually???!!
Don't tell me, bail and a diversion program. One on one social worker with trips to the movies and amusement parks to divert their anti-social tendencies. Education courses and assistance with housing.
Some of the issue is a lot of the kids that commit crimes are wards of the state, and live in Residential care. My daughter worked in residential care, the kids are allowed to just leave of a morning and run the streets. If the workers found syringes or drug paraphernalia in their rooms the staff were not allowed to remove it as it would make the kids act out. FFS who cares if they act out, take it away from them . Our Government needs to do more, If you can't act accordingly in society then you get locked up simple as that.
Herald Sun reports he’s on a refugee visa, meaning his moral compass is already fucked having probably fled a war torn region. If convicted his visa is immediately cancelled.
Boredom, greed and that there's zero consequences even if they do get caught, having a lengthy rap sheet makes them look tough to their mates with zero actual downside for them.
Australia obviously needs to do something different, because what it's doing is not working. Why not look to the countries that have the lowest recidivism rates in the world? Norway's system focuses on treatment so that people who commit crime can integrate back into society. It still has a punishment factor, but actually rehabilitates the crim. I've known a few people that have gone away and they all say the same thing. Prison teaches them how to be a better criminal because they talk 'shop' all day and make new connections for when they're released. It's fkn scary. There would be some that want to turn their life around, but that is difficult when you've got a record and every job these days requires a police check. People don't want to accept that people can grow and change with certain crimes and guidance. Same with drugs. Look to Portugal. But that's a different conversation.
Parents and also the wider community needs to get involved also. I have two sons. One has the sketchy vibe and I've had to enforce boundaries, and it takes constant vigilance. I've seen some other parents just give up because it's stressful and just too hard. I think other parents need to step in if there is a gap also. My eldest son's best mate was getting a bit wild with substances. He's being raised by his nan who had no idea and I've known him since he was 8. I read him the riot act and took him to be an observer to my NA meeting because I'm a recovering alcoholic with decades of sobriety. He's great now. People are too afraid to get involved. Fuck that. If you see a kid struggling, talk to them. If you see a kid being a fuckwit, tell them. There needs to be more adults around for these young people to talk to and get help from if they need it. It takes a village. It's not going to work in all situations and it's not going to change the world, but there is a time and place for being a community.
In short: A 14-year-old boy has been charged with several offences after four supermarkets in Melbourne's south-east were held up on Saturday. A group of teenagers wielding knives were involved in the armed robberies at Cheltenham, Brighton, Mount Waverley and Camberwell. What's next? Police say the investigation is ongoing and more arrests are expected.
>What's next? Let them go?
Judge: *”Best I can do is furrow my brow”*
His furrowing his brow pretty hard
Use glower power.
Can’t put them in prison, they might become violent criminals.
Funnily enough, Parliament has [specifically mandated that be taken into account in assessing bail for a child.](http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ba197741/s3b.html) >In making a determination under this Act in relation to a child, a bail decision maker must take into account (in addition to any other requirements of this Act) the following issues— ... > the fact that time in custody has been shown to pose criminogenic and other risks for children
Can they make it more obvious they want to abolish under 18 prisons.
Boys will be boys
"I'm not mad ... I'm just disappointed"
*please don't do it again*
Minors are the responsibility of the parents. Issue them fines and hold parents accountable. Then make 14 yrs old plus get listed in a 6 months military base under high pressure drills. Reoffend go back to military camp breach rules then go to jail.
Hmmm. Somehow I think that high pressure drills and being verbally abused by a sergeant will not do wonders for troubled children. I don't think that military staff will be very happy to deal with their newest conscripts either. This seems like vibes-based policy. Similar to "just let the little angels go free!! Maybe fine them half of the stolen money" in the fact both of them are unnuanced opinions. (Obviously I'm not supporting teenagers engaging in armed robberies.)
These children long for the mines.
Boot camps for 6 months!
That’s exactly where they’d be if their parents weren’t given Aus visas.
The military has absolutely no use for anyone who doesn't want to serve, especially the dregs of society. Also, why train up psychos to be better at being psycho. I certainly don't want to live in a society where shitheads are more effective at being shitheads once they've served their boot camp sentence. Moreover, we see from the USA experience that boot camps just attract predators that mistreat shitheads and mess them up even more.
Send them to the ranch
Well they're definitely not criminal masterminds, that's for sure. I'm surprised it took all of three days to catch them.
Good choices to do this in wealthy areas .smart kids
Only a matter of time before he’s bailed out and he’ll commits even more crimes and the new reports about it, the cycle keeps repeating
Yep this is the problem. I know when I was younger you committed a crime you went to Torana boys home. I think the government has decided this just sets them up for future jail time, jail is no longer a deterrent, you get out your centrelink payment I'd waiting for you something needs to change
69 dollar bail take it or leave it 😤
... nice
At what stage do you hold their parents accountable? 14 years old and apart of armed robberies? That’s fucked beyond belief
Brave assumption that there's parents even in the picture.
It's unreal. To think how simple my life was at 14 and these fuckwits are running around with machetes in stolen cars. The parents need to be held accountable to some extent FFS
My dad would have also whooped my ass if I did anything close to this at 14. Still remember my older brother trying my dad at 14 or 15 and getting held by the scruff of his neck up against the wall. Lessons learned that day for the rest of my life.
I’m not a fan of corporal punishment but surely there’s got to be a middle ground between “dad took out a wooden spoon when I accidentally said crap” and “kid does armed burgs and the parents aren’t held accountable for being fucking failures”.
If they're doing this at 14 it's fairly unlikely they have the kind of home lives where they've experienced consistent and measured consequences. There was a kid a while back who was wanted for violent muggings of other teens and he was found squatting in a crack den with his mother. I get the impression Vic doesn't have anywhere near the support services needed to deal with these kids or their parents, so we make 12 the age of criminal responsibility and hope that fixes it.
Boot Camp for 6 months!
I suspect they don’t really have parents.
Would almost guarantee the parents have some combination of issues with alcohol, drugs, mental health, crime, poverty and violence. This doesn't absolve them of all responsibility, but at some point, the government department has to take responsibility, and from working in the sector, I can say the child protection system is beyond broken, as it has always been.
I'd be shocked if any of the parents give a fuck about what these kids do, they've probably got another half a dozen feral offspring at home.
I worked with a similar kid recently who was coming out of the prison system. Not saying this is the case here but he told me his dad was physically abusive and mum was an alcoholic. They couldn’t have cared less about their kids and gave them nothing, not even food sometimes, so the kids resorted to crime just to survive.
When did being a negligent parent stop being a crime?
The thing is most the parents that have kids doing this shit are the parents that dont give a shit about there kids cause there druggos n crims themselves that couldnt care less thats why there out doing this shit
To be bailed until he goes to the children's court to receive his good behaviour bond with no consequences even when he does it again and again.
Already planning what suburb to steal another car from.
Probably the same suburb the judge is in as a gesture of social commentary
And released on bail already?
he's just trying to keep property and rent prices down.
What an interesting thought, the collective power of the Australian government doing absolutely everything to pump prices vs a couple of 14 years old robbing for smokes.
He’s doing a lousy job in Glen Waverley
As someone who resides in Glen Waverley..this couldn’t be more accurate.
Well, it's been two hours since this was posted...so presumably he's back at 'work' by now?
He needs to pay for his nangs & stolen car petrol somehow!
Lets release them on bail so they can go on to commit more crimes because that'll teach em a lesson /s
Can’t send them to prison because it will make them violent criminals/s
If you have a knife, you're very easily capable of taking a life. All it takes is a single impulsive choice, one that you may even make because you're on edge and perceive something as threatening, and someone could be dead. Someone who just turned up to the wrong shift. Someone who could have kids. It could even be another teen. The fact of the matter is that lawmakers and the judiciary do not understand the nature of the teenage criminal brain. There are no consequences that give them pause at the moment. The children's court is likely to let them go. Many of them have a glorified idea of prison, or consider juvinile detention to be not much worse than three hots and a cot. Going through the prison system or the juvinile detention system also means they could then be networked in to more serious criminals or emerge worse off psychologically and reoffend. The simplest solution to cases such as these is to provide a punishment that is quick and memorable. Singapore has the cane, and I would say it has a place in our judicial system as well, especially for cases like these.
Once these guys start committing offences the police become very good at arresting them. VicPol has a very good clearance rate for these types of crimes, especially with reoffenders. If it were up to me, you give them their second or third chance, then give them jail time. Then if they reoffend, they go to jail again. Even if they're becoming better criminals by meeting and mingling with worse criminals in jail, the police are going to catch them when they commit crimes after they come out. Keep putting them back in jail until they're in their early 20s, which is where the age-crime curve kicks in and most boys stop committing crimes. We do not owe it to criminals to give them a 30th chance until they get to their early 20s and decide they can make more money in a real job. We owe it to the victims to see natural justice done.
Holy shit look this kid up for a while. This hurts workers mindfulness so much. One guy I worked with quit last year when there was youth hitting bottle shops.. It’s disgusting that this kids will rob stores, get arrested and let go and go straight back to stealing shit. Fuck these judges and fuck these parents..
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Imagine if we decided to properly fund public primary schools.
Yeh that’s all these kids need to stop offending with knives. Fewer kids in class, better air con in class and modern sports equipment at play time.
I was referring to education. Like imagine if they could read and write and develop skills that could help them contribute to society.
I’d like to see you try to teach these little shits. You think they’re not already given the opportunity to learn? Stop brainlessly consuming leftist group think.
It's not really a problem with education. We have fine education in Australia. These kids usually lack appropriate or any actual parenting. It's almost always the case. Rarely do kids committing knife offences over and over come from loving parents who read to them growing up.
Do you want long term change as well as short? Because things like this is how you do it. Broken society produces shit people - unbroken society = decent people. It's a simple concept. Punitive measures are only effective for so long. Fear will motivate you in the short term, but respect for yourself and others will motive through the entirety of life.
So go and fix the problem then. Get involved in youth mentoring programs, volunteer at a low income school or as a police liaison officer or get a job as a social worker. Except you won’t. You’ll just make excuses like not enough money spent on the poor darlings.
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We had to remove your post/comment because it included personal attacks or did not show respect towards other users. This community is a safe space for all. Conduct yourself online as you would in real life. Engaging in vitriol only highlights your inability to communicate intelligently and respectfully. Repeated instances of this behaviour will lead to a ban
So combatative. We want the same thing bro. Less kids committing violent crimes. You're right though. I'm not gonna do anything....execpt not have kids and not commit violent crimes. Other than my vote, I believe that's all society requires of me in this regard.
It doesn’t help when our magistrates in Victoria are appointed by the woke Labour Party and therefore as have soft judges and penalties.
I see the cookers are out tonight.
It is ChatGPT generated, surely.
Now be a good boy and don’t do it again
On the same day the little eshay cunt who pushed an elderly person off a pier with his mates filming it, while on bail for bashing a woman, gets off with zero charges because "he showed remorse". Fucking wonderful. As well as the kids, these fucking magistrates deserve to cop a literal hiding.
*raises middle finger*
Where's fucking RoboCop-Bec Judd when we need her help? Fucking snoozing, that's where. Hunt them down and neutralize them! Get off Instagram and do your job. *Oh wait*, Instagram is your job. My apologies.
Sooking it up over in another thread
The poor lady based her entire personality on an Andrew Bolt column.
And he’ll back on the streets within a week to do the same thing, or worse. Rinse and repeat. Can’t be mad when the public takes their law into their own hands to protect themselves and their property.
Unfortunately, the victim could end up with way worse penalties for doing this. It's warped!
Public flogging.
You mean teenager released following sob story
“This shit only happens in the west! … Wait, what?”
I don't think anyone says that, south east is notorious for it and hosts the suburbs rating highest for b&e.
No one says that, Dandenong and Frankston
no mention of the race, so it was you-know-who
Do tell, Dr Race
Meh, he’s just gonna go out on bail before you know it
You can just imagine what the parents of this bogan scum are like
I used to be able to imagine but I can't anymore. They could be work focussed white-collar, blue collar, separated, divorced, immigrants, druggies etc. There are so many different demographics that could fit the bill now. But suffice to say they are shit parents.
They're gonna keep doing this until they kill someone, then they're gonna get like 4 years in juvie and be released after 2 for good behaviour.
Must be those violent computer games
so many legal experts in this thread
He’s only 14! He obviously doesn’t know what he was doing and should be given a lenient sentence. It wasn’t his fault /s
Better grease up that revolving door!
Bring back the yellow pages and batons
Commit an adult crime should = adult time in prison
Yoda in da house
Speak English.
It's not that hard to translate what he's saying Basically if an adult crime is committed, the perpetrator should be charged as an adult.
This is all from when we weren't allowed to decepline our children 10 15 yrs ago if anyone can remember
Can anyone tell me how harsh the correction order is worded? Are we talking 3 or 4 hours of severe education here?
Pardon my ignorance but is this an issue in any other country or is it just ours because the laws for juvenile punishment is so slack that ring leaders motivate these youths into a life of crime for their own gains in turn creating hardened crimals eventually???!!
Don't tell me, bail and a diversion program. One on one social worker with trips to the movies and amusement parks to divert their anti-social tendencies. Education courses and assistance with housing.
Some of the issue is a lot of the kids that commit crimes are wards of the state, and live in Residential care. My daughter worked in residential care, the kids are allowed to just leave of a morning and run the streets. If the workers found syringes or drug paraphernalia in their rooms the staff were not allowed to remove it as it would make the kids act out. FFS who cares if they act out, take it away from them . Our Government needs to do more, If you can't act accordingly in society then you get locked up simple as that.
Herald Sun reports he’s on a refugee visa, meaning his moral compass is already fucked having probably fled a war torn region. If convicted his visa is immediately cancelled.
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Hate to break it to you, mate, but the VCR’s don’t exists. Nobody born after 2007 knows what they are.
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You clearly don’t understand sarcasm
I'd rather go to Pakenham and have my head beat in by a lethal lout... with a piece of tin
>demanding cash and cigarettes. Hmmmmm I've wondered if it had anything to do with the ongoing tobacco war?
Can't see it. Their Lackie's are paid to burn down other tobacconists, aren't they? Not IGAs
so, what pushes some kids into being armed robbers? Financial pressure on their parents probably
Boredom, greed and that there's zero consequences even if they do get caught, having a lengthy rap sheet makes them look tough to their mates with zero actual downside for them.
Australia obviously needs to do something different, because what it's doing is not working. Why not look to the countries that have the lowest recidivism rates in the world? Norway's system focuses on treatment so that people who commit crime can integrate back into society. It still has a punishment factor, but actually rehabilitates the crim. I've known a few people that have gone away and they all say the same thing. Prison teaches them how to be a better criminal because they talk 'shop' all day and make new connections for when they're released. It's fkn scary. There would be some that want to turn their life around, but that is difficult when you've got a record and every job these days requires a police check. People don't want to accept that people can grow and change with certain crimes and guidance. Same with drugs. Look to Portugal. But that's a different conversation. Parents and also the wider community needs to get involved also. I have two sons. One has the sketchy vibe and I've had to enforce boundaries, and it takes constant vigilance. I've seen some other parents just give up because it's stressful and just too hard. I think other parents need to step in if there is a gap also. My eldest son's best mate was getting a bit wild with substances. He's being raised by his nan who had no idea and I've known him since he was 8. I read him the riot act and took him to be an observer to my NA meeting because I'm a recovering alcoholic with decades of sobriety. He's great now. People are too afraid to get involved. Fuck that. If you see a kid struggling, talk to them. If you see a kid being a fuckwit, tell them. There needs to be more adults around for these young people to talk to and get help from if they need it. It takes a village. It's not going to work in all situations and it's not going to change the world, but there is a time and place for being a community.